Songtsan

Your addicted to peace! That's hedonism!

It reminds me of how Siddartha tried to 'get rid of' the self through extreme asceticism....I seek to bend nature and explore extreme variants on the reality I have experienced....it's in not being attached to the standards I have known....radical experimentation....put microchips and wires in me....I'd check it out at least....I can talk more about why I think this, but I have to get going...

Great post - I just want to clarify that I have no problem dying, nor do I seek eternal residence in a robot body - it's not out of fear, but out of God-born curiosity that I wish to experiment with it. I know truly that I am immortal - not my Ego of the Now, but my purusa/prakriti interchange... I have heard of sadhus who would take their eyeballs out of their sockets and put them back in - I have a fearlessness regarding experimenting with the flesh that is like this. I think there is merely misunderstanding about my intentions here...I feel immortal already. All beings are. I think that this is the play of prakriti and that robot bodies are included in such play. Another example is this: if it were medically possible to keep the brain alive by providing it all the fluids, nutrients, etc. and having the cranial nerves/spinal nerves cut off from the sense organs, I would do this too. I fear nothing. I am willing to do extreme tapas of types never before experienced. Some tapasyins may hold an arm up for ten years or more, or be buried for up to a year in an extended bigu state, as you know. It is this spirit to endure what some call suffering which I embody when I say I would have no problem being experimented on. There are enough normal lives out there...it is no problem to spend an incarnation or two trying something off the map. Whether or not you or anyone else considers it a 'purile fantasy,' when this reality actually starts occurring at some future point, which is inevitable, will you still be complaining about it and judging it? Or will you accept it as simply another expression of Brahma? There are infinite forms composed of matter...it is nothing special

What I am thinking is that we are nearing the age were anything is possible...it will happen at some point..but the proof is in the pudding...I'm content to wait for a few dozen years on this one and reassess. I am personally excited to live in this era...who knows what will happen? I think I can make it till 2070 at least. Curiosity and interest in what the future holds are one thing that keeps me excited to make it there - it's a great motivator to practice longevity pathways..

I would have no problem being put in a robot body, as long as it had a bunch of sense inputs...why be attached to either flesh or metal? We have metal in us already..hehe...I don't see it as unnatural...If in 60 years or so, Protector and I are living in immortal robot bodies, I will think back on these types of conversations and chuckle...if my own spirit is immortal, and the identity illusion, what is wrong with trying to keep an illusion alive when times spans billions of years? Eventually one would get tired and go back to non-physical existence, but this is definitely something that will happen. Medical science, artificial hearts, exoskeletons, all that stuff is already in existence. I have no attachment to being 'human' - I wish to become all things - animals, plants, robots and more - I believe that I can! I will inhabit many vehicles... I wouldn't ever diss anyone else's preferred vehicle though - each to their own - yep! Indeed. Even one's own dogma is an interferer...to hell with dogma. Yet, at the same time it will certainly be significant in shaping oneself, so I respect its power....

I don't say I agree with all his desires...I myself wish to become part cyborg and experiment...I see myself as spirit come to a material plane temporarily and I like to see new things - experimentation. I totally think that everyone is OK to proceed on their own paths and find out for themselves what is true or not, so I disagree with his major statement that spirituality has to go. I think that he has a good instinct...he is in the phase of doubting what everyone else is/has been preaching for eons, which I applaud. The world needs thinkers like this to keep the ship from sinking into stagnant artificial views that don't match reality. Good point! True true true...we meet in the middle...haha! I can't say I know enough about Taoism yet...it's a constant journey for me....I am a little vague on the whole purpose....I would have to post in another thread so as not to go off subject

I don't disagree - thoughts have power to produce, or more accurately engender feelings, and feelings lead to thoughts through labeling of the feelings....there is a circular effect between them which creates the belief Isness of the moment...I shouldn't exclude the body/emotions part either. Here is the trinity....

I really deeply resonate with Protector's view...I am in a bind and that is that I do not yet have faith in any particular religion or belief system, and I even question whether they are all group-mind created fantasies. Those of you who are trying to shut down his pure and true instinct to search for the Truth should back off. I am in the same boat. I often fear that I am being milked by these spirits whose only goal is to appear to be whatever you wish so that you express your emotions outwards so that they can feed upon them. In Taoism, it seems that the intent is to feed those energies back into your own immortal body instead...therefore, I often feel that these religions are merely set up by parasitic interests by astral plane entities who know how to work a person to death - sucking all their essence from them by encouraging some type of outwards search for completion which produces intoxicating emotional energies which can be sucked from us...

Good post. I did in fact receive Saktipat from the Hariharananda Kriya yoga lineage, which stems from Babaji and beyond...so I have the active communication with Ma-Shakti of various forms. My cries for help, prayers, etc. certainly go to this One. So I have this pathway open...I am very interested in studying Sanskrit...I have never applied myself to it, but I do hear often of its enormous wealth of God touched expression...

In the end, spirituality, etc. is a lure - craving, desire, for a better place - addiction to bliss at its core - it is yet another grasping for greener grass, as is science - desire to know is desire to be able to make sense of chaos in order to order things into a more peaceful, blissful environment- to streamline things to make everything more comfortable. This is OK though - why not? Yet at the same time, one should endeavor to accept things as they are, in order to destroy suffering. Suffering is of course nonacceptance... So - one may seek to 'do good work,' as in refine the world through various pursuits, yet one should seek to be accepting with what is...its the double edged sword. There is no reason to dwell in a painful existence, (being ignorant, not trying to make things better) Therefore, all searches for comfort through improvement, whether it be scientific, or spiritual grasping (for help from 'above' which would equate with 'grace') is OK, as long as their is in fact 'someone' out there who is willing to lend a helping hand. Where do prayers go? Who hears them? Science should examine this.

Spirituality, Religion, Metaphysics, Science, Philosophy, etc. are all at their best a search for truth. At their worst, well, you know how they end up. They should all collide into one at some point, with the delusional beliefs of each being shorn from the matrix as they spiral towards eachother. Ignorance can only stand so long under the sun before it wilts. 'Religion' is dictionary defined as a 'strong belief system' in part Science is the study and observation of reality through empiricism The difference here is that we can observe 'outside' and agree upon it to a large extent, but that when one has an 'inside' experience, it is not considered empirical, although it is still observed by the one who observed it. The things that we can agree upon when we observe them together we call science. The things that we all experience internally are called other things... When certain things that can only be observed internally, one by one, are seen again and again by many, they also are accepted scientifically, yet they are more 'soft science,' like Psychology, for example. See how we still talk about things like, 'what is mind?' for example...these internal things are the most unexplored, in that they are the most fuzzy/vague, whereas externals seem to be more classifiable.... In the end, the mind that classifies and compares is the weakness - it can only go so far as it can observe and understand clearly. On the whole I am in agreement with you though, we need to desmystify all this stuff the best we can - demystify simply means to uncloud, etc. It's a matter of degrees, inch by inch... What we have to be careful is that we don't make concrete that which is not yet known too fast! Or else we build in fallacy, and it becomes accepted as truth. Science that moves too fast will do this. Spirituality is a buffer for science in that the vague shadowland of things that are metaphysical can be explored by minds for millennium until science can slowly extrude the pure, verfied data.. There is a place for everything. Religion also has a place - it's a proving ground of another sort - it shows the power of blind (faith based) belief and what it can amount to. Its lessons can be seen through history - often in helping us to see where not to go; i.e. the proof is in the pudding. The results seen through the centuries in large patterns of misery/bliss. We are the human experiment. We come here empty - our original minds reset - then filled with new belief systems that plot a course for a mix of salvation/destruction....then the whole matrix of beliefs dies with the body...the awareness that incorporated it returns to its 'untrammeled essence' So, you see, religion is science - it's an experiment. Spirituality the same. Beliefs are the common core. Beliefs are not something we take with us. The truth shall stand, the false shall wither as it has no grounds in the long run. What is left here will stand or fall on its own merit....

If wishes were fishes, we'd all be eating some tasty dishes! Spirituality and Religion are too ingrained into cultures....try again in 100 years or so....

Hmmm..interesting. Doubt is feeling, which stems from an emotion. The word 'doubt' is a thought construct which describes the feeling, which is the awareness of the emotion. Emotions --> Feelings ---> Thought. OR: Electrochemical event --> Perception (i.e. translation of the event into a mind object) ---> Thought (Object is labeled, and awareness of its actuality fades as the label takes its place). Just a minor correction take it or leave it. Semantics blah blah blah But, anyways...yes, words are unnecessary and only became prominent due to our need to communicate in-group. Before that we were steeped in pure feeling and had a much more subtle and fine tuned sense of what was going on....its like we live one step removed from the present - the clouded looking glass...

Curiosity will lead to fruition. Fixation on the end goals without having the spirit of interest in understanding the terrain will result in frustration. A calm, centered approach, like a person who is on a train ride excited to see the countryside, will get you faster results.

Your burning zeal to experience these paths will take you far; don't let skepticism and disbelief derail you. Yes, an advanced teacher will be good. Isn't B.K. Frantzis near the Bay area? Continually practice and improve your relaxation technique for starters - learn to shift into a theta brainwave state at will...maybe study autogenic inhibition techniques for starts...it won't hurt to go in lightly and look around the energy body including the MCO circuit IMO, just don't do intense focus - -start traveling around the property as if you are a tourist, develop your feeling ability, don't depend on visualizations too highly - look for direct perceptions of what is actually there first, then you can look at shaping the energy later...I think if your intent is to simply observe, there is no harm in traveling the path of MCO, as long as you keep a light attitude. The intent you hold during meditation is important...if you have this obsessed urge, backed by subconscious desires to attain siddhis and build Rome in one day, note that and back off...This is a project of years...Cultivate an equanimous, confident yet relaxed attitude of an Immortal and you will one day be that. Meditation need not be difficult - it should be fun and exploratory...like you are taking a walk around your property and getting out of your room, where you spend too much time staring at the TV or computer.... In the body, the equivalent would be getting out of the eyes and ears...

A poll of sorts, and discussion... What is yours?

A little qigong illness never hurt anyone! I'm no teacher, so all I can say is that you might want to tread carefully..

I purposefully blew my wad three days in a row to experience the beta realm, and the results are typical: Lost most drive, interest in sex dropped, desire to create art got lower, music isn't as interesting. Not as interested in playing video games or watching movies, blah blah blah..don't care where I am...I'm just floating on the wind...really ambivalent...passive - "wanna go do this?" - me: "I suppose..." Also more interested in helping others out - not as interested in doing things for my own self benefit.. Overlaying everything is a feeling of peaceful, yet uninteresting stagnation. I feel entropic. Where is purpose without desire? Even my devotional aspects have declined...bhakti is more casual, not so on fire... I've been experimenting with sublimation for over 18 years.... it's pretty cut and dry... the parts that I have to work out are these: -with sublimation comes increased sensitivity. After like 10 days, its really hard to please my girlfriend using my jade wand, because I can't do much with it...I of course use other means....but still the whole thing puts some distance between us....obviously its a work in progress. It takes a patient woman to hang with a sublimator. It has been a sticky point in many of my relationships... I think I prefer the Karezza-like method of ejaculating every 2-3 weeks....It's been a while since I tried more than that though.... Love that testosterone/dopamine buzz...hooked on sublimation works for me.... Preaching to the choir hehe

Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Get on bus 19... Woodstock, punk rock, ipod bop Bus meditation

So is the turning of the light around taking the activating, outgoing energies of the body, (the energy which produces efferent activity), and turning them back to the source of the energy expression? Does it also involve utilizing the afferent signal processes? Can one store or somehow alchemically change the energy that comes in through the sense gates? Where is this source (if anywhere), or where should one focus those energies... What happens to this energy? How does it accumulate? Where/how is it stored? How does this lead to immortality in a way different from simply being reborn again unconsciously. Does it somehow trap a program or matrix of tendencies in a way in which one will never forget ones Way again? I am asking from a beginner mind state, but would like explanations in left brained analytical vs. twilight language... Thanks friends

Ok...updated method: Full relax, undoing all gross (mostly muscle) efferent activity Observe breath, allow it to tune itself..do not proceed until its smoothed Attain physical calm abiding Look to thoughts, find origins, detached and equanimous Track to underlying feeling state...observe locations in body Follow it further to the emotional, physiological response in the body Look for deeper levels of calm abiding in this way When the calm abiding seems to be firmly in place in the physical, mental, emotional realms, then I proceed to turn awareness back into itself

I think that having a map helps, but of course one must go into the territory to make use of the map. I am doing this now: relax fully, watch breathing happen without my interference- it generally tunes itself it seems...then once I hit this Shamatha, I start trying to find out where the thoughts originate...I do this for a while with interesting results. Then I spend the last third trying to track backwards to find where the awareness that sees all this stuff is...

I think the trick is to be able to enter a really relaxed, altered state akin to deep autohypnosis...yeah - if you lack the intrinsic ability to deeply relax and attenuate normal information entering through the 5 more physical sense gates, you probably won't be able to get there....