Songtsan

Of course, an important point to make is that to effectively communicate or understand syntax within a system, the communicators must come from a similar view or stance -agreed upon definitions essentially. Let's take "Nothing doesn't exist." To argue that nothing does in fact exist, I simply take the view that there are no 'things' whatsoever - trust me, I could argue it. So while it may seem that I am debating with you, I am really trying to understand your language and stance underneath it all - even if I am not aware of it. Because even though I intend to go beyond rational mind to get to Taomind (and I am trying as often as I can remember), I can't kid myself that I won't try to understand the concepts intellectually for at least some time, as I am new at Taoism and have too many intellectual queries at this early stage. I do know how to exhaust the mind by concerted contemplation. When this happens, I know it by feel, and act accordingly by dropping the introspections out of sheer peaceful and acctepting readiness to not think on it anymore. I guestimate 2-6 months from now I will be done.

I like the Carlos Castaneda series of books myself, but did you know he made a lot of it up? (says one his wives after he died)- and that he stole a significant amount from a fellow anthropologist (so said my anthropology teacher years ago who was very fascinated with the whole deal and well connected in that area)...not that the value of something that makes sense isn't true even if its a story or if it comes from the mouth of a fabulist - like I said, I don't care if a teaching comes from a demon if its true and it works. As far as the stillness comment, I retracted that one before you got here - so nuh uh! don't count...hehe I will look for this thing that doesn't move! I accept that challenge. I am not attached to being right, but seeing is believing with me on this one. It shouldn't matter anyways, because by the time I were to see that, my mind should have dwindled away for most of the day and there would only be true seeing. I have had the thought that you might be saying that the universe moves around awareness, and that awareness is not a product of the universe - so that awareness doesn't move. I will see. All movement occurs relative to something else, so if there was a place where there was only one thing and one thing only, then it would have to be still. "True emptiness exists when the mind is clear and all forms have disappeared. Externally, there are no objects. Internally, there is no mind. There is only emptiness. In this state, even emptiness does not exist. In true emptiness there is no space, no desire, no will; there are no appearances, no thoughts. All realms of existence are dissolved. In absolute stillness there is no self and no other. There is only Earlier Heaven in its undifferentiated whole." ~ Eva Wong, from Cultivating Stillness The above sounds like a perception attainment to me - but I will see. But from a rational point of view, ultimate stillness sounds far fetched, as the whole universe is always moving from the largest nebula to the smallest particle of an atom. If one has the view that things have continuity in time. As above so below...if you are speaking metaphorically or in some twilight language, then that is fine. Even space moves. It expands and contracts with the amount of matter - in fact it is directly tied to matter - the one wouldn't exist without the other. I have studied too much physics to hold an entirely different belief yet. I aim to ultimately see how the laws of the universe (physical, mental, spiritual) coincide. I can see how one could have the view that there are no things, because each moment is a reality unto itself, and the idea of thing-ness is ultimately untrue - there is only this, then there is 'something else' new. In that case I accept that every 'thing' is still. So perhaps both are true based on stance. Perhaps ultimately, neither stillness nor movement exists - it's something else entirely. It's not that I don't believe you, for I have already accepted that there is a possibility that there is something that doesn't move since you say so - it's that I still believe myself too. I am in no hurry. The best belief is probably no belief. Also, it would be unfair of you to expect that if I have chosen to pursue a Taoist practice, that I wouldn't spend some time studying the basics - hence I will be purchasing various works that are mentioned by you and others. I am still practicing the 24/7 style meditation, though it still needs tweaking..I haven't been able to hold the intent 24 hours a day yet, but for at least 4-6 I am breaking old patterns...I used to do this for a little over a year - Thich Nhat Hanh style - basic mindfulness meditation...your style is very similar, although I am still reading descriptions of it. Here is something that I am wondering though - can we ever really trust that that which we know (on any level of knowing that you can experience) is actually ultimately true and not just a translation and thus an imperfect reflection of true unknowable reality? Does reality even know itself? Of course we must assert things at some level to communicate. I just think its best to always hold a sliver of acceptance that that which we think/believe/feel/intuit/perceive/hear/etc. we know -, from that true seeing that you talk about to the statements of Gods, Buddhas, Immortals, and so on - might not be it at all - this will preclude one from building barriers to ultimate truth (if it can be known at all). This will not influence my ability to practice in any event, so it doesn't matter for our purposes. "Nothing doesn't even exist" - I never said it did - I was using conventionalese.

if I don't get what I say I want, it probably means that I didn't really want it in the first place.

Forget about that challenge - useless philosophical debate. I was a little manic when I posted that.

Because these illusionary selves, which could be compared to a blank being wearing a mask of enlightenment, could come back. Perhaps mahasiddhi is a bad choice of words, but the bodhisattva vow speaks of reaching high stages of enlightenment and returning again and again. One would expect these beings to accrue over the years. If not a single thing is out of shape - why would one make a bodhisattva vow? The vow assumes that there are limitless suffering beings who need help.

Also, now that you aren't really feeling aversion anymore, this is the perfect time to train your willpower. Slowly formulate a systematic exercise, nutrition, meditation, etc. program and make them habitual.

Well, turn lemons into lemonade then...become an impartial observer to everything you perceive to be self/other; observe without judging/labeling/categorizing. Use the lack of feeling as an advantage - you will not easily be derailed by becoming emotionally involved or getting distracted by fascinating feeling states. Do not be attached to what you once had - forget that person for now. Know that this happens to a lot of people out there. Keep researching! Understand what happened. Stay present. See what things are made of.

There is a simple scientific reason for the patterns you have noted: When a man doesn't orgasm for a while, the testosterone receptors in the brain are upregulated. Prolactin stays low. The relationship between testosterone and dopamine is significant. The end result is more confidence, more motivation, etc. as you have seen. Prolactin rises after orgasm, especially multiple ones in a short time period - this can cause depression, lethargy, etc. as prolactin can interfere with testosterone receptors and dopamine itself. Then there is also the explanation from the Taoist perspective. Once every 2 weeks is pretty much OK for someone of your age, but you can just be aware of 'when its time' by feeling alone. Relish your sexual desire - it itself is a blissful energy which increases sensuality in all areas as well as increased perceptions of beauty. Practice male kegel exercises daily - 900 short contractions and 100 long ones keep the prostate clear of fluid congestion - prostate self massage, etc.

I am attracted by the bodhisattva ideal myself, but I am not so sure that it works as they hoped it would. There have been large numbers of Mahayana/Vajrayana practitioners for centuries. One would then expect that by this time there would be at least a few hundred mahasiddhis walking around keeping things in shape. I don't see this. I think that tendencies reincarnate, not people. People are illusions. Dharmas are like memes. Dharmas 'reincarnate' for certain.

also see jnana yoga, such as this site: http://yoga108.org/pages/show/55 notice that study and contemplation are part and parcel of the system. I already explained how I partially come from this system...so if I come here to question, debate, etc. in my mind I am fulfilling a part of my practice. It is trying to understand how and what and why before even getting there. Some recommend just getting there, and then you understand. Patanjali mentions jnana yoga as one of the yogas to end the fluctuations of the mind. It's a respectable path. I am still interested in understanding several key concepts from Taoism - such as turning the light of awareness around, following the tao in reverse, etc. DC recommends just starting the basic practice of pursuing nonpsychological awareness or extinction of the wandering mind. I have already begun practicing the all-day long system of meditation which she suggests, starting a few months ago. I am not doing much formal meditation yet. The type of questions I might ask are like this: "When doing the all-day long style of meditation, should I allow the attention to roam freely, or try to keep it fixed in certain areas given the situation?" "When watching the mind during moving meditation, should I keep focus approximately split 50/50 between external perceptions and internal perceptions, or only be aware of what aspects of mind break through as I try to observe external perceptions from moment to moment without judgement?" "Is it better to have a mixed one-pointed object focus practice combined with objectless meditation, or focus on just one type?" It isn't as if I need the answers to these questions, as I can certainly choose for myself - one big reason I ask is out of plain curiosity about what others are doing or think is best from their studies/experience. This is group mind educating single mind. Mainly, bottom line is that coming here entertains me! Everyone has their poison. I don't go to any other sites than this, hardly ever watch TV, don't play video games, or go out much. This place feeds my desire for stimulation, or escape from reality.

I never said I wasn't interested in him. Just that I already know enough to practice and that I should start again. I have practiced before - Vipassana mainly (watching breath at the diaphragm area) and I have attained 1st jhana many times. I have also opened the MCO route governor/conception style. I understand what you were trying to do and I thank you, but you went a little overboard in its exaggeration and thus it lost its punch. I recommend a more subtle approach. Let's discuss the Stages of Change Model: see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transtheoretical_model I am somewhere in the preparation area, and I keep myself motivated by coming here and discussing things, making statements, asking questions, giving information I think is useful, etc. I have been in the Action phase before more than a few times and even touched on Maintenance. I have also already stated my love for discussing philosophy and metaphysics. What I do here helps me. You will come to see this in yourself if you look.

I agree - you are in the deep end, wishing you could get back into the shallow end - but it seems to have disappeared! You must learn to swim. It can be quite adventurous! You say you feel nothing? Would you feel nothing if you went skydiving? Met with the Dalai Lama? Had sex with Miley Cyrus? Insert your own wild adventures and realize that you may simply need to get crazy - go do stuff you were always afraid to do, but really were curious about. Do not be attached to emotions - but try to remain open and vulnerable.

Stillness doesn't exist. Nothing still, nothing solid, nothing fixed - so no thing can be labeled as a 'thing' for to label any thing suggests it has fixed boundaries and does not change. I challenge any one to prove that stillness exists absolutely! (not conventionally)...in a new thread though.

Deci needs no one to defend her, but I have to say as a wanna-be writer/teacher myself that there is nothing wrong with co-opting - either literary approaches or instructional methodology - there are too many things written now for anyone to have a style that is completely their own. I personally love Deci's writing/teaching style, and in fact it has given me much understanding of several important facets of Taoist (and other) material. I actually will be co-opting certain flavors of 'her' style myself at some point...I have always believed that 'self' was illusion - just aggregate formations. How can any aggregate formation accuse another aggregate formation of co-opting the forms of other aggregates when we are all equally aggregates that have been formed in/by exposure to other aggregates? That is puzzle pieces arguing with puzzle pieces for being puzzle pieces created by other puzzle pieces. It's fascinating! Hehe - I couldn't help myself. No one owns anything - no one is anything. Every one is no one! Any one is every one! We all contain every thing. If you are upset at Deci, then you are upset at your self - for you are that. Everything I just wrote is untrue yet true - judgments and labels are absolutely untrue relative and subjective truths. The truth can easily be found in Deci's writing - or yours. It is almost like optimism/pessimism - the statement is true or false relative to your own stance - seeing falsity shows a stance which sees falsehood and vice versa. Mental realities, formulations, concepts - not real. Oops - contradicted myself - how can a mental reality be 'not real?' Thought is your maker. Consciousness is a series of awake, aware energies of perception/watcher. We are made of the unreal - until we are no longer made at all. A series is not a whole. When you judge the whole based on its parts, you judge a lie that you have created in your head out of misplaced perceptions. Argue with parts, not the whole - best type of argument. I am a hypocrite! So...is what I just wrote true or untrue? Tell me what you found to be untrue! I want to know! This is fun "None of us is OK and all of us are fine. It's not just one way. We are all walking, talking, paradoxes. All passion, aggression, heartbreak, etc. is simply passing memory. It is all just thought. This is how we begin to wake up our innate ability to let go, to reconnect with shunyata, or absolute bodhichitta. Also, this is how we awaken our compassion, our heart, our innate softness, relative bodhichitta. Use labeling with great gentleness as a way to touch those dramas and acknowledge that you just made them up with this conversation you're having with yourself." "Rest in the nature of alaya, the essence, the minds natural state, which is the open primordial basis of all phenomena. We can rest in fundamental openness and enjoy the display of whatever arises without making a big deal." "...be a child of illusion. What you see is not here and it's not not here. It's both and neither. Everything you hear is the echo of emptiness, yet there is sound - it's real - the echo of emptiness. Good, bad, happy, sad, all thoughts vanish into emptiness like the imprint of a bird in the sky." "Good and bad coexist; sour and sweet coexist. They aren't really opposed to eachother. We could start to open our eyes and our hearts to that deep way of perceiving, like moving into a whole new dimension of experience: becoming a child of illusion. We begin to let opposites coexist, not trying to get rid of anything but just training and opening our eyes, ears, nostrils, taste buds, hearts and minds wider and wider, nurturing the habit of opening to whatever is occurring, including our shutting down. The world doesn't speak for itself because we're so caught up in our story line that instead of feeling that there's a lot of space in which we could lead our life as a child of illusion, we're robbing ourselves, robbing ourselves from letting the world speak for itself. You just keep speaking to yourself, so nothing speaks to you." "Self-liberate even the antidote. Let go of all understandings, all security, even shunyata itself. Let go of emptiness, openness, or space." I have thousands of pages of stuff like this - excerpted from the many books I read while I was in prison. I didn't bother to write down the authors because I believe in the view of ultimate selflessness. I have enough stuff to 'remind' me of what it is I need to do. I don't need to even come here. I come here to speak to real, living beings. People such as Deci Belle fulfill my desire to have a spiritual connection with others. She is a different flavor and will appeal to certain types of individuals based on their predilections. Do I think that she is enlightened? No. But I don't believe in enlightenment. I believe in endless refinement. Enlightenment suggests reaching some plateau - but even in the Buddha's works I found pride and arrogance - such things don't bother me! If the teaching is sound, then I don't care if it comes from Satan itself. Just my advice to you is this: if you disagree with something that DC says, respond directly to the concept and explain why it is flawed - this will be useful to everyone. Responding in the negative as a whole to anyone is closing the compassionate center in you and slowing you down in your own evolution. We are all guilty of doing this, all the time, of course. I am, in the end, merely speaking to myself. You are me, we are we, and there is no one here at all.

I know that the maps are important - I wouldn't be here if not for them. I don't aim to forget them, in fact I intend to refine them someday once I have gone to the territory more. You can't think your way to non-thinking - even a mantra is a fluctuation of the mind. I have always intended to seek samadhi without a seed object. I have to drop the self in order to do that. The act of dropping the self is a long process. I am generally more addicted to mental enjoyments than I am sensual-physical enjoyments. Part of this is my psychology (disassociative personality disorder, ADHD, schizoaffective disorder bipolar type), and this psyche of mine loves speed and complexity - rapid thinking, and detailed in-depth mentation- like a damned computer. I always believe in training the weak-link in the chain, and one of my great weak links is the inability to not-think. If I don't start really practicing and making that practice formative, I will get really really depressed.

I really like Crazy Wisdom - I see myself as heavily influenced by it. I haven't read Chogyam's book on it though...I forget which ones I read, but it was when I was in prison. Do you know how much I would love to be silent for years? It doesn't seem doable right now given my present circumstances. I did come here (to a significant degree) for socialization purposes originally. I don't feel attracted to most conversation topics- but philosophy, metaphysics, reality etc. are conversational gold to me. However, I really am getting tired of it all. My brain is worn out with contemplating this stuff more and more often, as if it doesn't matter anymore - its been useful to discuss these things as I determine my beliefs and purpose and whatnot, but that phase is largely done. It's becoming weather talk at this point - my version of Facebook. My natural progression, regardless of how many years it takes, is headed somewhere away from talky talk and thinky think. I am good to go!

I read a few books by him...but mainly what I need to know are details which I will not have the questions for until I start practicing in earnest...so yeah, no need for me to post here anymore until I have some questions.

Actually, I agree with you and I am getting real tired of forever reading about states and not seeing them except in virtual reality - I am further along than you think, as the exhaustion of this tendency of my mind to forever chatter on about these things which were meant to be experienced continues to arise in cycles - I am for the most part quitting the discussion of philosophy and working on just being a student practitioner. A big problem is that my life is chaotic - and so I never have the stability to get into routine. Not that one necessarily needs routine, but it sure as hell makes it easier. My desire to experience these realities first hand would never allow me to stagnate - I am not in competition with you or anyone, but when I hear you/others talk about your experiences, it does tend to drive my desires to 'go there' At this time I am trying to choose a specific set of practices within Taoist circles - including a physical practice - probably zhan zhuang and bagua, pranayama, seated meditation morning and night (MCO oriented), and all-day long meditation of the Complete Reality School type. It will take time for me to formalize these. I think you tend to believe that your path is the only path, but I do disagree - one can come there also through the path of jnana yoga or gnosis. So 'they' say...I believe this is where I am coming from - one starts to actualize what they 'know' by finding the edges of the map by continual exploration in the virtual reality of the mind, until one can no longer expand the envelope - then one kills the mind and starts living in the real world without trying to shape ones course. I think that this is happening with me. However, I am for the most part stopping the theoretical wrangling as you suggest - it is happening as we speak. So this belief I am dropping as much as I can, as quickly as I can. Enough map making and enough of philosophy as mental entertainment. It isn't as if I haven't experienced things beyond maps - I just generally am living in the maps - I consider myself as living in the realms of the djinn most of the time - I am a genie so to speak. I am now trying to practice mindfulness with equanimity as often as possible. I am focusing on technique now so I can get past technique. It is like one who practices a musical instrument all day until it plays itself without them having to use technique anymore. Right now I AM aiming for nonpsychological awareness - trying to kill that mind, stop reifying my oscillating psychology, etc. I want it to happen and desire should lead me there - the desire for enlightenment is a strong tool to getting there. So I am trying for spontaneity without plans, action without a doer, being in each moment without a sense of a person - no past/future, and so on - I know theoretically where I want to be and I am trying to keep myself motivated by hanging out with my sangha - which is you guys... if I give advice - it is usually a passing fancy - I am trying to simply be a student...sometimes it just feels right to try to help others...but that is just ego talking. I even see places where I believe that my advice could help you - save you time/energy if nothing else. However, you are not my problem...I am enough for me to handle. When you view me, please try to leave that thought construct that you have assembled of me behind - try to see me anew each time - just because it would be best for us both. I will be trying to do the same. I like to explain where I am at so that others may criticize me constructively, even though I am creating a thought construct of who/where I am and then subjecting it to communication degradation in the sending process. If I ever poke fun at you personally, it is because I see you as thinking that you somehow know it all - I think you are in a good state for yourself, but that you also think you can speak equally for everyone, as if your advice is good for every person/path - in this I think you are still behind in the times - you know enough for me to respect your sagacity - your advice is really perfect for me at this time - so you I allow to criticize me with glee, for you are the right fit for me - when you blocked me I felt a sense of amusement - I love it when you beat me and whip me. You can be as tough with me as you want - I adore you and no matter what you do to me I am taking it in a good way. I have printed out every post you have made on this site and it is what I am reading right now, along with Joeblasts and TaoMeows stuff - and I am thinking of adding some others. However, you seemingly have a one-size-fits-all mentality often when you speak to most people. I feel you are missing the mark here. Feelings are illusions. Do you feel you have discovered the quintessential answer? Feelings/beliefs are illusions...me even going here is miring my mind in a thicket of thorns. I really do think that you are pretty much spot on for the most part however - just don't get too cocky! Your attainments do not make you omniscient. You are still building thought constructs that are illusions and basing your assessments of people on those mind fabrications, even if you think you are acting from intuition - search deep for the roots and I believe that you will find that your beliefs are rooted in mud at some level. Judging, labeling, categorizing, etc. are mind fabrications. When you create these in regards to whether people are 'ready' or not, or on the enlightening path, are you sure that that is what is best? I am not sure myself, for all I know it could be. Your criticisms (and others) have helped steer me in the right direction far more than any supportive statements anyone have made. If there is a method behind your madness then by all means forget I said anything. Even the Buddha kept labeling people after his supposed entrance into Nirvana. Do we ever stop labeling? Can labeling be anything other than the self-reifying ego-construct? I say that we are both wasting our time with our criticism of anyone (if we were to be entirely selfish), but that they are also useful for people at the same time. If you can constructively cut my beliefs into shreds I applaud you and I would pay you money if I could afford it. I am confused in this area, but I feel that it should work itself out if I forget about it for now and try for reality. So I am stopping debates here basically now. So forget all of this stuff! Its just run around monkey mind reacting to action/reactions... I already know that my mind is an illness for me right now - I am an addict...thinking has always been a great passion and a great pain for me. The agony and the ecstasy. I am trying to go beyond this into reality - this I promise - it is in the works. None of your advice has ever been wasted on me. Now everything is becoming circular however - I don't need you to tell me where I should be aiming - how might be better, although there is plenty of 'how' available out there - so I don't even need that mostly - maybe just some fine tuning.... how to leave the mind - how to turn the light around. I simply need an instruction manual - a really literal one if possible...I aim to go beyond techniques...but for now I need the discipline, or else I will run about in habitual tendencies.. I know all the whats and whys - (or I think I do) and this is enough to motivate me to do the work. This is what matters. So I need the hows!!!!! You have convinced me of the goal - I have never believed more than now that I should be in that place and felt the desire to go for that field of being than lately. So there is nothing for me to say at this time, and probably nothing for you to say to me either... Unless you can offer a really detailed, literal description of how, complete with examples and perhaps even definitions of key concepts where your definitions might differ from the the norm. As always, I do appreciate you.

I am sorry - I forgot to paste this: http://thetaobums.com/topic/30150-what-to-do-when-the-dark-night-of-the-soul-hits/ Dark Night of the Soul is often mentioned in relation to Kundalini, however it doesn't have to be just that - it can be for other reasons as well - please read through if you can. I have also been suicidal for many years of my life - I have found some removal from that desire through antidepressants and also recreational drugs....this is not ideal however - what is ideal is to handle it with nutrition, exercise, connection with nature, social support, and various healing modalities such as have been mentioned. They say that desire to kill oneself is thanatos rising over eros...I like that analogy - realize that you are saying that you are in a desireless state essentially, but if suicide attracts you, then this is not true. When I was the most suicidal, it always cured me to do deep introspective work using hallucinogens - this has kept me in eros, but also is a very chaotic thing for the mind at times. The fact that various drugs can cause you to feel again says something. Somewhere, somehow you messed up the balance of your neurotransmitters/neuropeptides - this is causing the depersonalization/anhedonia. I have also suffered from dissociation/depersonalization/derealization for many years - its a curse of withdrawal from the world due to inability to 'feel' it - it is as if you have to learn to enjoy what others naturally enjoy without trying If you can start hitting things from all angles this will be best: nutrition: vitamin D 2000 IU per day Calcium/magnesium/zinc fish oil w/ high EPA/DHA 3-5g per day L-tryptophan at night as directed on bottle L-DOPA (mucuna) as directed on bottle vitamin B-12 multi-vitamin cut down simple sugars to less than 10% of total carb intake cut down carb intake to less than 55% of total calorie intake see my personal practice forum for more supplements and nutrition info, etc. Like I said - you are a member of your treatment team now - but you need to get some professionals on your side - naturopaths, allopaths, TCMs - the more the better - all angles

I really would like to read the classics anyways...I'll see what the library has first. I am very interested in "The World Upside Down" advertised in one of the banners here. It just might be a while before I actually get to them. Thanks everybody!

I am full of these guys....they influence much of what I write, do and say. Anyone have experience? etc. Supposedly they can be tamed...they interact strongly with ones emotions...

Yes, perhaps I am influenced by people such as her in my own beliefs, but I actually believed such things before I ever even heard of djinn. I posted a story online in 1999 on El Collie's site in which I discuss how I believe that there is a single source behind many manifestations...

There could also be situations where the attack would just pass over and through the karma-free individual...they wouldn't necessarily mirror everything (unless they 'chose' to)...they could simply be unaffected by the actions and especially the intent behind the actions.

That last site link I posted is her site....she considers that Djinn are a specific species - not demons, and not kundalini...the djinn like to hang around an individual whose kundalini is awakened, due to the availability of extra energy. That other site states that Jinn have great knowledge of kundalini... so as far as being one and the same as kundalini - its not a common belief. Honestly, I dont have anyone to verify any of my theories anyways - its like trying to prove that God exists...

Its the Djinn's fault!