Songtsan

When I received my Kriya yoga initiation, the guru touched his forehead to our feet. That was pretty powerful - by his admitting that we were just as holy as he or anybody else, and that all of us in the room we equal, I immediately felt a sense of how powerful the belief systems of the lineage were.

I never said it wasn't super accurate - the reflection of reality, that is. But you do not experience your senses directly - when light hits the eye, it goes through a process called 'transduction' where the energy of the photon gets translated into electrical energy, which flows down the optic nerve into a few different areas of the brain where this energy is further processed in more than one area, then recombined and sent to the thalamus, which is like a central relay station. This is the beginning of awareness - it doesn't end here however, this awareness immediately gets sent to the higher processing centers in the frontal lobes, etc. where it is compared to memory, identified, etc. This is the perception part. If you could directly sense something - the photons bouncing off the chair would be delivered directly to the inside of the brain. It doesn't work like that - they stop at the eye, and the energy is translated and further processed. No direct perception. Only indirect. Just please do this for me...go look at that first link - its not text - its an experience...it takes 60 seconds! PLEASE!?

I have more than one...the one I was referring to here was this: Remove as much muscle tension, nervous system tension as possible - do whole body scans to start with...Once you have achieved a deep level of body relaxation, focus on letting the breath breathe itself. Just watch - do not try to interfere, or superimpose any rhythm other than that which occurs due to autonomic functioning. I usually watch the stomach area around the navel/diaphragm/or just under the navel - whichever one feels best. If you do this, you will notice some fits and starts at first, and then suddenly you will find the body settles into a new rhythm on its own. Keep checking to make sure that you aren't adding/subtracting to it with your conscious will. Eventually as you are completely motionless, and the muscle/nervous energy is mostly silent, you will find your breathing becoming less and less and even more shallow. You will find that your body becomes extremely sensitive to its own sounds/feelings. You will feel your heart beat rocking your body back and forth slightly. As your mind becomes more empty, allow yourself to go into a sort of half-asleep state, let the mind drop off some. This isn't about hyper-awareness - it is about a waking sleep state. I use this one specifically because my mind is so active that I have trouble going to sleep at night. It works well for me. If you have a more subdued relaxed mind on average, it may not be for you - its more for hyper-mentalities. As you get deeper, you will find that you are almost in a sort of trance like state, mainly aware of breathe, heart beat a little. This is not a deep meditation, it is more a way to relax while not sleeping - you get into a more relaxed brain state - theta maybe? depends on you. Sometimes I wear my ipod and listen to isochronic tones - which help to get into that type of state - so its about calming the entire nervous system, and ending wild fluctuations. Its sort of meditation, but sort of not - your wisdom eye is open, but sort of half-lidded - you are a little asleep. It is very relaxing and renewing. At the end, I usually re-invigorate myself by stretching, shaking my body, moving chi around again, etc.

Also, there are always rules in the end - gravity, heat/cold, force, etc. reality rules. The mind has rules, the heart has rules, the body has rules, no one can escape rules. I always found that setting up an extreme system of rules, like some of the Buddhists who take hundreds of vows, will by nature force you to adopt a way, someone else's way - which is fine - I am not criticizing - I see the advantages, yet for someone who ends up breaking rules a lot, because of, well let's just say, crazy driving habits, constant failure to keep to rules leads to discouragement along the path. In order to bypass that, I adopted a new set of rules, which are another topic entirely, but they are so flexible that I cannot possibly fail. You guys all know what type of person I am like by now to some degree - I think you can figure out what types of rules I have for myself (I can't wait to see what types of comments this one brings)... I think in the end that one should be careful in choosing rules - know what one is getting into first. Like this - recently I decided to go vegetarian. Then when I find out someone is just going to throw some food out that has meat in it, because it is too spicy, I changed my rules to adapt, because I hate to see food wasted. So now my rule is never buy meat, never eat it unless it is going to be wasted. Flexibility in rules should eventually lead to the perfect set of rules for one's nature. Here is another example. A few days ago, I decided to try not to get into personal arguments with people on this site. I found myself at it again with someone just last night. However I caught myself in my urge and backtracked. It seems to be developing slowly. These are what I call learned wisdom rules. Rules that evolve with the times. Here is another one. I told myself that I would stop coming here to focus on my book. I lied, I came back real quick like. I am addicted to internet forums. This isn't the only one I go to either. However, I feel something bubbling up in me day after day - an almost repetitive, ever-strengthening urge to move on. I believe this will happen soon. In time I will naturally experience what I tried to make a rule of and failed, without making a rule. This is the Tao of nature I think. This is why in the left hand Tantra path's they purposefully broke the rules - ate meat, drank wine, had group sex, etc. They were aiming at breaking the dry, dusty mold that had encapsulated their minds. When I say that Tantrikas of certain sects didn't have rules, I meant it, but I also didn't mean it - there are rules, (natural rules), and there are rules (imposed ones). See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aghori for my type of style - no I was never initiated...Kundalini teaches me, because i wish to learn. She is the all-bringer.

there is more than one...left hand is different. I am very Aghora-esque. I am Kundalini-driven. She is my guru and all i will ever need. She is Kali - and Kali is Tantra to the core. Rules don't exist with Kali - she does whatever she feels like and you can place no rules upon her. In the end, we become what we are surrounded by, and as I am surrounded by Kundalini, I become that, or the aspects that she chooses to show me, which are divinely compassionate + divinely/demonically cruel.

It is mainly a fight against insincerity. Instead of seeking to mold myself into some ideal, I let the ideal mold me into it, by being eternally honest, even when it hurts. People tend to become uncomfortable with me and my level of honesty. Not that my honesty is the truth of course, it is just that I speak from that level of truth that I know at the time. I do my best not to step on toes when i can, but sometimes the truth at the time encourages it. Its a bittersweet road, but I think all roads are. I don't know one best path for all people, or even that there is one best path for me, but this one has been far more successful than all the other ones where I tried to fake it until I made it.

but wouldn't loss of 'me' basically be equivalent to loss of 'I am looking'? That to me is exactly the same - just thisness - no 'I' 'me' or 'mine'

the way I illustrated is also a valid path. One can follow desire with the wisdom eye open and quickly learn the rules that way as well. This is also a way of direct perception, and is inherent in many Tantric paths. This is what I do. Its a more fiery, vs. cool path, and involves more chances to mess up and go insane. I seem to have passed muster so far. It is Shiva riding the snake, letting the snake lead, blissfully aware the whole time what the snake is doing. The way you mention is more Krishna-esque - taking control of the reigns of the chariot, which are attached to the horses of the mind. I like them both, but I must confess, those Latin women are the best.

I never said the chair didn't exist separately from you - just that you live in your perceptions, and that you actually don't see the chair as it really is. There are senses, and then there are perceptions - the two are chained together, but are not the same. I only took a graduate psychology course in sensory-perception, numerous courses in anatomy and physiology, in which I studied how the sense organs worked, and I have since studied on my own for years on end - don't believe me if you already know it all, even though all the top neuroscientists believe the same as I do. There is a material world - you just don't directly perceive it. Did you even try those links I put up there? Just try the first one - it will take you all of 60 seconds. Unless you want to keep on believing old school stuff. "The question of direct or "naïve" realism, as opposed to indirect or "representational" realism, arises in the philosophy of perception and of mind out of the debate over the nature of conscious experience;[1][2] the epistemological question of whether the world we see around us is the real world itself or merely an internal perceptual copy of that world generated by neural processes in our brain. Naïve realism is known as direct realism when developed to counter indirect or representative realism, also known as epistemological dualism,[3] the philosophical position that our conscious experience is not of the real world itself but of an internal representation, a miniature virtual-reality replica of the world. Indirect realism is broadly equivalent to the accepted view of perception in natural science that states that we do not and cannot perceive the external world as it really is but know only our ideas and interpretations of the way the world is.[4]Representationalism is one of the key assumptions of cognitivism in psychology. The representational realist would deny that 'first hand knowledge' is a coherent concept, since knowledge is always via some means. Our ideas of the world are interpretations of sensory input derived from an external world that is real (unlike the standpoint of idealism). The alternative, that we have knowledge of the outside world that is unconstrained by our sense organs and does not require interpretation, would appear to be inconsistent with everyday observation."

I see purpose in both ways...plus its for the book, I need to know all angles. I am not trying to develop a one-size-fits all system, but instead discuss the benefits and differences between various systems and write it so that a person can decide for themselves what direction they would like to head towards.

true, but been there done that for years while in prison recently ...taking a vacation for a while in insane forest land. Much more exciting...learn much quicker too as the demons are everywhere and they want a piece of me, and I must defend myself left and right so my ninja skills grow quick.

Yes. Crazy wisdom. It's the only option open to me now I am afraid. I am too unbalanced for ways that seek balance through balanced activities. Seriously. Tried it failed, multiple times. Years and years of failure, never finding a home anywhere. If I can find a home in crazy wisdom, then I am game. Even if people shun me, at least I will feel alive vs. dead inside.

That's the best way - quick and deadly, with much spiritual fire...I want to burn myself to cinders in a blaze of fierce heat that can't be beat. No time for slowness...lots of work to do, many karmas to burn/create. I've already went too far, can't stop now or else I might get depressed again. Riding the furious waves of extremism, I keep the motion going forward, so that I don't have to backtrack all the way and start at square one. Once begun - don't quit...keep on trucking. Truest friends will be found this way instead of so-so friends who aren't as sincere.

I wonder though - it would seem if loss of 'me' occurred, then there would be no 'me' that categorizes objects into separate pieces. There might simply be thisness.

hmmm...that is basically the coolest thing I read today.

That's why I like Vajrayana! lol so many more crazy people like me to have fun with...To destroy the ego, become an egomaniac! Why does this work, because people will hate you like fierce fire, and they will rail against you and tear your ego to shreds. I don't have to destroy my own ego, others will do it for me.

First of all - the world is real - its really out there - please dont think I mean that this is all in your head. What I mean is that your experience of the world is all in your head. That is an important difference. Here is what others say, if you don't trust me: First - try this: http://neave.com/strobe/ Then read these for starts: http://www.montgomerycollege.edu/Departments/StudentJournal/volume2/Ian.pdf http://www.peterrussell.com/Reality/RHTML/R2.php i could link with with thousands of more websites saying the same thing...they accept this at Harvard, by the way! EDIT: Ok..so I tried to proselytize you again..you may sue me now.

Really it's true - but I will not try to proselytize you. If you really want me to explain to you how it works I will. It's now accepted by the American Psychology Association, neuroscientists around the world, etc. if that means anything to you...

I think suffering is largely based on fear, obsession, rumination, anxiety, worry, hatred (self/others), anger (self/others), disdain, and so on. We hate these things, we don't like how they taste (in general - some people like 'em), that is suffering. Espcially when we can't stop them, but we keep trying to run from them.

OK - why you are the chair - let's start there! When you sit down on the chair, there are various receptor nerves in the skin of your buttocks that are activated...ones that tell your brain the level of pressure that is being applied to your buttocks, the density of the wood, etc. These are electrical sensations that create a mind map. So tactile sensations are electrically based. Next is vision. When you see the chair way over there in your room - your eyeballs do not go out to the chair! Nope. The light from the lamp you are using is reflected off of the chair and hits your eyeballs right where they are at in your head...this stimulates receptors at the back of your eye (cones & rods), which send electrical signals to your brain, which eventually form the perception of colors and shapes. The photons coming from the chair had wavelengths and frequencies. This data was taken from the brain and used to create the color. The color does not exist out there. This has been proven for years now - many many years...all light contains is data - color is created in your brain. So far we have taken care of color and tactile sensations. This should be enough for now. I could do smell, taste, and sound too, but chairs don't make much noise, don't have much smell, and most people don't eat them, so.... Color produced in brain, perceptions of density, etc. produced in brain...in reality, atoms are 99% space, when we feel resistance this is due to forces, not solidity - energy forces - so everything is energy... Everything you perceive, while being part of a greater whole (which is why you are everything, as this is all a process/relationship), for the purpose of this discussion is occurring in your brain. You are that. You are that energy in your mind. You are the perception of chair-ness. If you were hallucinating on the right drugs, someone could take that chair away and you could still see that exact chair where its at. If someone stimulated certain parts of your brain with electrodes, you could be faked into thinking that ants were crawling on you, or that your hand had become a football - this has all been documented for years and years and years. We are the mind. It is mostly separate from the real world (delusionally speaking) until we truly understand (enlightenment!). You inter-exist with the photons, with the chair, with everything you have ever known. You are in relationship with it. I can expand if you wish?

Both sides are true - it is backed up by physics and well accepted nowadays that all energy in the universe exists everywhere at once. Really! Go Google it. We do have separate selves as well. So I agree with what you say, I just agree with what I say too. Would you like a more scientific explanation, or a psychological one, or a spiritual one?

This is all great stuff - thank you.

I pretty much agree with everything you posted here at this time. I may change my mind later, but it sounds so right, right now.

Exactly. There is simply awareness awakening to what it is. When it realizes what it is doing, it takes control of the crazy mind-monkeys again. It stops making them, knowing that it was them, and it begins to make divine monkey-beings. Maybe? I don't know I am too sleepy right now to be clear...

I am not sure what you think I think anymore...that O2 isn't necesary? I never said that I like oxygen - I'd be dead without it. Let's reset here: is there an argument? what is it? We should regroup know as I am getting confused, seriously!