BaguaKicksAss

Powdered or liquid works better if you don't want to just crap 80% of a pill back out .

The horse stance thing was a joke btw .

Oh if there is a good school nearby, definitely train as much as you can with them . Sometimes these opportunities don't last forever, so get it while you can.

Works on guys too .

PS Aeran, you can use the "quote" button on the bottom of each post to quote the person. Or you can use the multiquote one to quote a few different posts (the one YaMu has mastered a couple of pages back).

The Cabbalistic cross would be more shen or Atziluth I would think, hmmm. The energy may be strong, but compared with some qigong though? People use the word etheric in diff ways. I see it more like the stuff that works more on the physical plane. Yeah you could have some natural talent, or some really interesting training (not the standard most get). This is prob best via PM....

Cept Wiccans aren't afriad to leave the house and go outdoors and work with plants.... LOL, sorry couldn't resist. Yeah Gerald and Crowley hung out a lot, it's pretty much said Crowley wrote the Wiccan works.

I've seen lots of... a little trickle going down and out the feet, while a majority of the qi just goes up into the head or chest. That is likely solved with more practice though. But I think lots of sinking of qi would help too. I like this idea . I tend to plunk it all down into the ldt or feet or roots usually (just what I've been working on lately). Also been working on some whole body stuff as well, but more feeling from inside the body. I guess qi does naturally end up in the hands, since everyone's hands warm up during practice. This one person I know always had cold hands during practice for many years, but then one day... it worked . Some things are really hard to put into words, how *I* do it, is more like when I run my hand across the carpet and feel it. I wouldn't call it a physical being there, but close. I guess I would think ldt for a split second, then end up being there... harder to do and type at the same time anyways, however I do it lol. I'm sort of curious now how others do it, or how they interpret "do not visualize". I was using it in the sense of visualize the energy at the perineum, bring it up the back to the top of the head, then down over the head and back down around past the perenium again (stopping at various points along the way optional). Or perhaps different colours along with this. This is not a practice I presently do, just an example. As opposed to say noticing the natural movement of such things just by thinking OK time to do some ZZ. Or allowing it to just go... Or just knowing the roots are there. Definitely interesting to think about this, and I'm going to ask some further questions of my much more experienced with this friends . Though some go further than I do and just notice energy, don't even try to focus on any particular area or etc.). Makes sense. Though I personally see noticing a feeling or seeing some qi suddenly come out of my hands at some random time, I view as quite a bit different than visualization. I also get visions of things going on with other people, but I'm not controlling them. I think that many who say don't visualize are speaking from the sure watch all you want but done make it do stuff pov. I try to go more with feeling or watching personally as that is what I have been taught in the martial and qigong stuff. Have you found any differences in results with the different approaches? One better for some stuff, while another better for other stuff? Or do you tend to combine the two always? Interesting anyways . An illusion??? Though I'd have to take that up with ChiD . The sensation thing makes sense to me. See I always viewed visualization (as it is taught by many systems) as *making* energy do something, that the person directs; much different than passive noticing. It is always interesting to hear others' perspectives . At the end of the day though, as long as each of our perspectives and methods works for us...

How come your quotes never have the person's name in them? I think you need proper quote/multiquote transmission from YaMu . I'm not basing this on my own experience (much), as I'm only one person. I'm basing it on the several dozen modern magickians I've worked with and seen work over the years. Then compared with the couple dozen martial artists/qigong people I have worked with or seen work... I would personally put the middle pillar right next to astral myself, same with Bardon's stuff as practiced by most. You may be going about it more in a qigong sense, but I've not seen another do the MP this way yet, nor seen it taught this way.

and From: Liu Bin's Zhuang Gong Bagua Zhang: South District Beijing's Strongly Rooted ... By Jie Zhang

What about transmission?

The middle pillar is one of the exercises I was thinking of / referring to . Bardon as well (for most magicians). Completely differently energy/qi than martial artists and qigong folks work with. The former isn't as solid and dense. There's a good chance we may just have to agree to disagree on this one...

Wow *puts on list of places to visit*. Now how many them just fake it might be high though....

and what their teacher/s have them focus on...

I have met very very few magicians who actually work with etheric energy. The ones who seem to, were born with the ability from what I can tell. Then a very few others are trained this way. I have not seen any modern occult orders which teach in this way. Now martial artists, I see a lot more of this going on... it must be the differences in training. I'd guess your martial arts training helped, or you were born that way. Though this is only based on the few hundred magicians in north america I've met and worked with over the years... you are on the upside down part of the world afterall . By martial artists I mean internally trained ones, by traditional teachers.

You just described my entire experience, so far, with Bagua in that first paragraph . I was meaning visualization in the sense that it is taught in the western mystery schools. When I do sitting or standing meditations which move energy, I try 100% just feel instead of any seeing it sort of stuff, but noticing is OK. PS worked great for my insomnia, right after this post lol. Just get all that down into the feet and fast asleep right away heh.

From what I have noticed, and seen, visualization isn't very good for the practice since it tends to bring a huge pile of the qi up into the head, instead of whichever area of the body it's supposed to be in. Qi hanging out in the head predominantly is most definitely not a good thing. In martial arts practice (as well as some qigong systems) we are taught to be in our lower dantien, or our feet, or roots deep into the earth. Not visualize these places, but actually feeling these areas. Our awareness and energy sinks to the area, instead of us visualizing it going down the channels it does naturally, or perhaps we notice it doing so. Movements to assist such things, well the movements required for proper Bagua circle walking do it . I don't mean you have to circle walk, but the principals and body movements involved with it, also move qi around, and help it flow better . Even if standing still, or sitting. Also the different practices for those brand new to things theory I hear a lot, I've never seen recommended in person. Of course things are more difficult to those who are brand new, but proper training is important, and having to untrain someone and retrain them can take quite some time. It's difficult for me to describe, especially in text, not in person, on a computer screen.... I personally feel it more as an awareness...... a physical sensation...... but more inside my body instead of on the surface..... an allowing..... a noticing... never forcing. Also when they say the yi leads the qi, I don't personally think that's visualization, I think it is more like to place your awareness/consciousness where you wish things to flow to. The difference I perceive is that folks using visualization keep things on the mental or astral plane, while those doing the feeling/awareness thing (sorry about the lack of decent descriptive words), are working it more on the etheric and/or perhaps physical plane. I hope that made sense. I'm still pretty new to qigong/martial arts, so just trying to describe what many have shown and taught me, what I have seen/felt in them, also some personal experience and working with 2 people that I'm helping learn this stuff. Hopefully someone who was trained in this way, with a decent level of experience will chime in some more, and actually use the proper words for things .

I took it as sarcasm, so you still got your meaning across .

Hmmm, you *do* live in australia, and you *are* encouraging paypal payments... lolololol

Well to quote 3 different people, you have to be working on all THREE, jing, qi and shen .

Every path pretty much, it's more about the individual practitioner than the path when it comes to this. Though LHP folks and Satanists tend to be more easy going about such things.

That is not true. Though most don't learn any decent ones, and if they do ever curse you, just offer something better to Hecate (they ALL call on her for cursework) and call it good . 3 fold law, yeah they all say that, but many throw curses anyways.

Well it's obviously because your qi just wasn't strong enough for this particular technique at that point in time, but since you have been practicing since then, you can now use multiquote easily.... Or perhaps because Sean fixed some bugs . One of the two.... In case you don't know about it, that little box on the top of the tools section when doing a post gives the edit in code option which is really handy for some better copy/paste options .

Obviously not a very strong one if the teacher only got sick . Most likely she didn't even. Unless they found actual evidence, such as the dollie with the teacher's name and the girl's handwriting, they should not have taken any action, obviously. Then if they did find such items, generally a school would send a kid to the counselor to talk about why they are so disgruntled.

Most of the people tortured and murdered for "witchcraft" during the burning times were not actually witches, nor practiced. I took a course on this time period and the anthropology of religion and witchcraft in college. It was some pretty horrific reading.