BaguaKicksAss

Those were 4 very deep and meaningful posts right after your introduction.... .

Well you start off light, and work up the whacking harder and harder as people get conditioned and experienced. I've ended up with a broken foot and 3 torn ligaments from over ambitious young guys with (5-7 times the experience as myself) in classes! How hard everyone hits usually should be decided upon by the two people sparring together... in my opinion. You want to push each other a little more each time, but not overdo it, or under do it. I've sparred with folks where I could hit them 100% if I wanted, and other folks where I have to keep it down to 10% (which is pretty amazing considering I'm female and still newbie). The only martial arts classes I've seen without sparring are the wushu ones, wushu taichi forms and wushu Bagua forms. Some folks do wait until the student has 2-3 years in first though, and just focuses on apps before that, or some even wait the 2-3 years before apps so you get a good solid foundation. I've always found it really interesting how circle walking (Bagua's main practice) actually works like an entire iron body exercise! I have no idea what's up with that (I'll have to ask), but it's pretty neat. I've noticed it both with myself and the two folks I'm teaching. I'm sure each martial arts style has their own version of this.

It is very likely that what is found in that particular book is in a few (but not many) others. Also it is very likely that there are folks here who have been taught the same sort of stuff by their teacher; asking specific questions if you have any would help . Welcome to the we love Bagua, er I mean Taobums forums.

Good for health, grounding, solidifying the practitioner, making your energy more dense. That is my limited understanding of it so far (I've only been doing it for about two and a half years). There are also many benefits to the breathing practices that go along with it. Well also if you plan to do sparring.....

Iron shirt is really one of those things where an in person teacher is needed in my opinion. It is about much more than just the physical conditioning. If you do the breathing wrong bad things can happen. (such as some local guy who was peeing blood for awhile while doing an iron shirt type practice; it stopped soon after he did).

Martial artists who don't do sparring? I haven't met many of those... fortunately, since I love the fighty aspect. I know the taichi folks don't often, but most of the people who practice taichi are doing it for health, not for fighting. Nothing wrong with that. I know some folks who definitely use the taichi as a fighting art, they are quite experienced though 20-40 years in. Taichi folks sparring with MMA folks would be awesome. You just obviously don't go up against a 5th year MMA person in your first year, and vice versa. Go with the same skill/experience level. Most folks I have talked with recommend getting together with people from different martial arts to gain more experience. I ran a martial arts sparring group for a time, where people from any path could join in. However I was only 2 years into martial arts and everyone else was 8, 20 and 30 years into the practice already LOL. They were bored senseless working with me, and ouch on my part, heh. Sparring with teachers on the otherhand is a hell of a lot of fun, since they are your teacher, they make it difficult enough that you are really trying and definitely on the losing end, but not impossible, so you still learn a lot. Well also many less trips to the hospital with a teacher as they are used to toning it down for the newbies. Oh right, we were talking about in person vs book/vid learning . I will just have to sum it up to your experiences have been far different than mine. I have taught many book learned folks, and the unlearning process really takes a lot of time. On the other hand, if everyone was as dedicated to their practice as Sloppy Zhang that might be a different story. PS, I hope that lady quit that class afterwards lolololol.

It is fully possible that the Aztecs had a path of enlightenment, we don't know everything about them, we just focus on the gory bits. Also OK so they were a warring nation, much like say Rome back in the day. Sacrifice to the Gods, or killing someone because you are taking over the area. What is the difference? Also, I would say no, not all paths are good for the student. Valid or not who knows. What about the 5 year old child who does make beleive and comes up with their own path throughout childhood... it works well for them. However the adult doing the same, then converting others to it, not so much.

I think a lot of unskilled folks together is slightly better than one alone. Then you can get positive feedback from your peers. For example "uhm, no really, that horse stance was nothing like the picture". Or "uhm, honestly dude, I don't think that there really are aliens teaching you a new method of qigong, you might want to check into that". (please excuse the terribly uncreative examples heh) It's sort of a method so that we don't go too far into seeing what we want to with our own practice.

Now I wonder if a teacher who doesn't put much effort into the teaching (fortunately I have yet to experience one, but I have heard stories...), or a giant class... would be any better than books/vids? Fortunately I'm far from shy, so any group class I'm up near the front at varying angles throughout class to get the most out of it lol. Boy do I prefer one on one though. SloppyZhang, many good points. Also yes, one most definitely wouldn't want to shun books/vids if they can't find a decent teacher they work well with in their area. Some folks have also talked about getting together to practice with peers if there are no teachers around, or if your teacher is not local. Then you can be an unbiased opinion for each other .

We are on page 2 or 3 of a topic I started, and I would like to add a poll to it now, is that possible? I can't seem to figure out how...

It has been the difference between night and day for me. The results have been so obvious as well. It has taken a LOT of work though, and I mean a lot. I would personally recommend an in person taichi or qigong teacher (who's known to be the real deal I mean). Even more so than that though... I asked my teacher once if he thought a friend of a friend could be healed. He said only if they want to. As healers we all do work on many people, it works a lot of the time, but not other times. The trick is that the person has to actually WANT to be healed. Of course we all say and think we do, but underneath it all... it may be different. So essentially what the person who wants to be healed must do is remove all our *stuff* that gets in the way, that makes us more ill in the first place, and that makes the healing only work for a time. Also you have to do any practices you are taught DAILY. You can't (at least in most cases) just go to a healer or series of classes once and have the healing stick. You have to keep on it, keep doing it... for the rest of your life. Well also it sometimes takes a bit for the healing to kick in. Finding a healer who will work with you and give you exercises (in person) would really help in my opinion.

One concern I would have, is the information that is, and never will be, in books/video/public. There is a lot that people will teach you in person (after a time) if they feel you are a good person and practice regularly. This can be due to lineage secrets, some stuff that just can't be expressed in words or even on video, specialized training that a teacher may give some certain students, while others may need a different sort... and so forth. Also in the subjects (esoteric related) where I have been teaching for 20 years in... I have yet to see someone who has learned from books/videos who can work with, or pull off anywhere near the same sort of stuff that someone who has been taught by a lineage holder can do. I guess I could also use my own jewelry making as an example. I have been self taught for 8 years, with internet, vids and etc. However talking with and taking classes from the folks who have been at it for 20-40 years has made me improve 2-3 times as much in just a few months! However I didn't have the location/resources to learn in person for most of those 8 years, so I did what I could, and managed pretty well considering. Actually my teachers are amazed I pulled it off at all lol.

Taking video of yourself and watching it can also be a great tool . On another note, I have personally found (and discussed this with experienced folks) that the cost of the teaching (in martial arts, mysticism, qigong, taichi, spiritual teachings) is completely irrelevant to the skill/knowledge/lineage of the teacher. There are some amazing folks who teach in the park for next to nothing. There are some amazing folks who charge hundreds per hours. The reverse is also true for both... and anywhere in between.

I wonder if Jerry Alan Johnson's avoid writer's block magic is in one of his books? . 600 pages is common for him LOL. I'm slowly making my way through the book. About 1/3 of it is covered in other books. It is offered in a different context here though. You would have to own ALL of his other material to have already read that 1/3rd though. There are definitely exercises one can do from reading this book. The first book was more about principals and theory, and I thought I would have to use previous experience and logic to make the book practical... but then he gets into the how to after a bit. So don't get discouraged during the first 100 pages are so. This is my fave book by him so far, as it covers a wider range of material than any other book he has put out. I'm halfway through now, will provide an update when done .

I actually know of some authors who have NEVER practiced the topic they are writing about. I'm not kidding. Book learned only. Then you get the folks who have only ever learned from books and never an in person teacher. This second category is quite prevalent in various mystical topics. It is unfortunate. For in person teachers it can be just as bad, some have only learned from reading a few books or weekend workshops. I still find in person teachers to be of much better quality just due to the method of passing the information along. Well that and in person you can see what sort of person they are, how their energy is and so forth.

I see a report and a reply option, but not a block option. I also went to the user's profile, and couldn't find a block option? I did search these tech support forums with the word block.... I'm sure I'm missing some really obvious button somewhere!

Any and all exercises and meditations that Dr. Johnson gives do that. And I mean ALL! lol Just each in different ways and different areas/aspects.

It is something you do yourself. The soul retrieval part in all of his books tends to be later on. It is in the very last of the medical qigong DVDs from what I remember.

At a guess (not having read the book) it would be along the lines of clearing out the channels, qigong, and most importantly getting rid of any stagnant, blocked, or toxic energy/thoughts/emotions from your body. There are a LOT of exercises for that . Actually many of the exercises which may seem rather innocent help with clearing yourself out as a useful side benefit.

From my experience of both, it is a bit different. From the little I know of the shamanic version you (or usually someone else for you) will go out collecting the lost bits of your soul/energy body. In the JAJ/chinese medical qigong/Neigong version of such things you go into your past, past memories, past self and work through it. This brings the bits of yourself back. I don't think I'm explaining it very well, but I hope that makes sense. I actually cured something once with that technique, and didn't realize it until talking about it a year later. Pretty awesome stuff.

I train with John DeAnzo, so yes I am . I have personally found the training to cover much more than most other teachers/schools. Also they add the magic/mysticism stuff into the martial, which appeals to me personally. There has to be fighty martial arts for me to be interested, but also a system which goes deep enough. I have found that the training most definitely works for me health wise, as well as energy and channel flow wise. They definitely have the medical qigong and martial arts combo down well. They also focus on the internal alchemy aspect quite a bit, which also includes getting rid of your past crap. I've spent 20 years working through past crap, but this system seems to dredge it up more deeply and quickly. Which is very good once you have worked through it. They also give tools how to work through it, which seems rare. I have found that Bagua in general brings stuff up with all the twisting, turning and energies involved, yet most Bagua systems don't seem to include the tools and knowledge to work through each bit affectively. This aspect tends to scare some folks off, but is worth it if you can stick it out. The few exercises that people have mentioned that are in the new book which I have been practicing for about 6 months are pretty amazing, and work well. Personally I'd buy it before buying 10 other books at $20 each. PS, more info on Dr. John De Anzo's Neigong workshop here: http://thetaobums.com/topic/2336-upcoming-events/?p=441597

Yeah, if you don't clear your own crap (and blockages and so forth) out first, you can screw yourself up. This is true with many different sorts of practices/systems/paths. Also it just doesn't work as well if you haven't done the preliminary practices. (also true of most paths/systems). I personally find the training worth it. It depends a lot on what you are after and what you want to get out of it? From all I know of, and have experience of this particular path, there is a large emphasis on internal work.

The path is never in a straight line; it goes up and down. If it did not go back down from time to time, we would have no hurdles or tests to help us grow.

I'm sure you have read them already, but all I know of it was found here http://www.chinafrominside.com/ma/bagua.html

I got a 404 on the above link? This one works though: http://www.daoistmystics.com/metamorphosis.pdf Btw, John DeAnzo is also doing a NEIGONG workshop in Vancouver, BC (Canada) July 27th - 28th (2 days). The cost is $500. With the Vancouver one you have to provide your own accommodations, food and etc. (hence the lower cost than the everything is covered Greece one). If anyone is interested in the Vancouver one, PM me for more details (I have heard about it and have the information, but the official public info isn't up yet). Edited to add the Vancouver workshop listing on TTB http://thetaobums.com/topic/2336-upcoming-events/?p=441597