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'Loopy' .... for a qualified paleontologist . 'Dreamtime' ? ... thats a very misunderstood term . But yes, most indigenous people the world over see dreams as significant .. as westerners did too not that long ago (relatively) ... even the terminology has changed , it is usually now ' I had a dream' ... it used to be 'I was given a dream' . I was given an interesting dream the other night ... I have no idea at all why 'I ' would 'have had' that dream . Its relative ; good times, good country ; about 2 -4 hrs a day needs to be spent on necessities , the rest is for fun, culture ( costume making, decorating, dancing, ceremony, education / story telling ) family, etc. Central desert , totally different ! I am still waiting for reality to deliver that 'liquid ecstasy ' I dreamed about drinking that night (and the woman I dreamed I was drinking it with )

He may have been loopy, but in your neck-of-woods they do take "dreamtime" seriously, don't they?.. A lot of my own hopelessly politically unsavvy views are derived from dream-visions of the way things used to be a long, long time ago. I can't offer them as "proof" of anything. All I know is, I have my proof in my genetic memory, and in all senses whenever they briefly awaken to those memories. Occasionally "modern science" throws me a bone, in the shape of "proof" of something I know via those unscientific direct-access pathways. Most of the time, however, the bones it supplies are plastic, gypsum, or otherwise inedible for someone whose senses and sensibilities are operational. A recent "proof" came my way in the form of a discovery by the scientific community of a powerfully psychedelic honey known to the locals high in the Himalayas. It is not accessible to people unless they are top level climbers, know where to look, know how to protect themselves, etc. -- this honey is one of the most expensive substances on the planet. Well, I wrote about it some fifteen years ago, though I never heard of it then and neither did the "scientific community." I remembered it... I remembered ceremonies where it was used, I remembered a sister mixing it with some paint and applying it to my face. As clearly as I remember today. Anyway... per my unscientific direct sources, our prehistory was paradise. Maybe not always and not everywhere and not everybody's. Mine was.

Thats wonderful Taomeow ! But first, I agree with your point about 'warfare', I have heard it first hand how some of the ancient people here had a 'war' ( and still do traditional fighting,' law keeping' 'punishments', at times ). Each has a different way and code, apparently a war is when two groups face off in two lines, one on one and each man only fights his partner, the line with more men left standing in it wins. But there is also stories of law breaking ( perhaps one of our greatest story heroes , Pemulwuy - The Rainbow Warrior - was a result of law breaking ), treachery ( Like ' 10 Canoes' - this is an classic ! ) .... also just down the coast from me is the 'Cannibal Woman' story . Two things with paleontology ; what you say about 'modelling' is something I presented at Uni as a paper. They hated it and failed it . I did some reconstructions and made the later skulls brutish . Some examples of modern 'brutish 'lookers', a sample of a Cro-Magnon reconstruction (from some book) pictured with bright blue eyes, conditioned hair blowing in the wind ... well, like a movie star, questions about how they decide to depict an ear lobe. Since then, I have seen some mainstream stuff now pointing out some issues there, and with Neanderthals . A totally different slant on it, years back I saw a doco on some loopy Paleontologist that was blathering about a dream he had on site they were working, about a Neanderthal woman coming to him. He was stuck by her beauty, and the communication. He drew some pictures that were magnificent ! His fellow workers thought he was a bit nutty,. I haven't been able to track that down since though.

Can be a dream within a dream. Or even funkier than that. The "you" who went to sleep and the "you" who wakes up within a dream gone lucid are not the same you. The "you" who "returns" to the "ordinary world" after a lucid dream is not the "you" who went to sleep in that bed (it's not that bed, for that matter) and not the same "you" who was awake in the lucid dream either. Each hemoglobin molecule in your blood consists of 574 amino acid molecules. They are arranged in four chains which twist around each other to form a 3D globular structure of unimaginable complexity that looks like the most convoluted thornbush of the kind that can't exist in nature yet does, the kind where not a single twig is arranged randomly, every twist and turn is exactly the fraction of a fraction of a degree it is, and every "thorn" points in a particular direction and no other. This staggeringly complex and absolutely precise architecture is identically repeated about six thousand million million million times in your blood. These structures are assuming this particular exact shape at the rate of four hundred million million per second while others are being destroyed at the same rate. You are, effectively, someone else on the molecular level from someone you were at any point in the past, are in the present, or will be in the future merely because you exist -- and I'm not even talking the atomic level. Yet throughout your life you identify this never-the-same entity as "you," in all its manifestations. On what grounds?.. This is the million dollar question. Taoism to the rescue... as usual.

I have long lived with the sense of eventually awakening in ´reality´ in much the same manner that I have become lucid in the dream state.

friends, I almost forgot that I made this thread, lol! I wanted to delete it as soon as I made it since I felt embarrassed. But it is a dilemma. To answer some questions, I know a lot of girls fancy me in my neighborhood and outside too if I....uhh..retain my seed. My house is two floors and with a terrace which has small room in the corner. Basically like a storage shed. I live on the second floor alone, two bedrooms there. I'm kind of scared to go to a girl's house. I don't live in a western country and people are kind of conservative here. About using protection....that's not much of an issue. Thanks to my breathing practice(in and out breathing), I have good control over bodily energies. IF you read my older threads...you can know. Right now though, I feel I can have lucid dream sex quite easily because my body mindfulness is unshakable. I feel I'd have to wait indefinitely(to get real life sex). Might as well just become a monk than forcefully trudge through the household life in hopes for a females love. My dad said the first thing he'd give me an apartment, when his business gets going again and my mom said she'd get me a wife at 25, if and when I get established by myself. thanks for responses

Dream

In the universal womb that is boundless space all forms of matter and energy occur as flux of the four elements but all are empty forms, absent in reality: all phenomena, arising in pure mind, are like that. Just as dream is a part of sleep unreal in its arising so all and everything is pure mind never separated from it and without substance or attribute. Experience is neither mind nor anything but mind; It is a vivid display of emptiness, like magical illusion in the very moment inconceivable and unutterable. All experience arising in the mind - at its inception, know it as emptiness! ~ Longchenpa

I won't go off on a tangent about Cayce ... I dont see him or his methods as a valid source for investigating any reality about Atlantis ... already there is a big issue about his prophecy about Atlantis. I would rather concentrate on real evidence for or against Atlantis and not someone's dream visions. Many people believe he was exposed as a fake. I dont see how such a psychic can be counted as a reasonable reference. I am sure we will disagree on this point, however, I will offer the following; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Cayce#Controversy_and_criticism The other side doesnt seem to offer much ; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Cayce#Reputation_for_psychic_abilities Yes, he may have done some healing and discovered some methods but his critics have some solid evidence against him . The way I look at this is similar to Steiner , I follow some of his agricultural stuff, and some of his educational theories are good .... but he is also an Atlantis believer , and because I have realised that is a crock of crap, I have no need to swallow the whole concoction of 'Steinerism' . These 'post Victorian' trance occultists 'saw' many similar things ... you know, we can track down the start of this phenomena and who started it ... the same way as we can track the 'Flying Saucer' phenomena . A good occultists IMO should not swallow hook line and sinker ... but investigate and update with the latests findings and research. Unless one is into retro occultism as a hobby or fashion ... I am into it as a curiosity ... but not as a part of my system. Not quite my opinions about Edgar Casey , A.R.E. , UFO/TV and other things were not formed before my experience of them, but after seeing what they put out .... also 'History' Chanel , Ancient Aliens ... etc . I did ' depreciate it a prior' because of my experience with those sources , but still, I went back, and looked and 'did my homework' as you said, didnt I ... and still I found the same old stuff, the fudging of the evidence, the wrong info, etc . This keeps happening ... after a while one gets tired of these badly researched but somehow popular for the masses sources. As I said, I prefer text, with notes and references to check up on. Funny ! But in this conversation, I represent the 'scientist' and the 'evidence based approach using the latest technology and learning' .... and the bishop donging the ' unbiased observer' on the head would be ..... ? Okay, best of luck next time you fly on a plane, drive a car, use your computer, turn on a power point .... Of course, that is the way science works ... as new research reveals new info the map is redrawn . What, we are supposed to stay frozen in some old scientific era ? That's a silly way to look at it and that is not at all how it works .... and I suspect you realise this . One thing, just one thing I will say here. I am not, nor is 'science' looking at some latests 'doctrine' or latest finding about the Bimini 'road' to decide whether Atlantis was out there in the Atlantic (and boy, would that have been some long road ! ) ... there are a whole range of other sciences to prove or disprove a continent or large island there ... like geology, the history laid down on the ocean floor, plate tectonics , etc etc . Another example is, I am interested in the PIE homelands as described in the Avesta ... I can come to no real conclusion on it as there is scant archaeological evidence for it . I have a romantic attachment to the idea, but 'scripture ' ( Avestas) isnt a real record. That evidence may arise in the future and then my romantic notions may have some validity. What is wrong with the development of ideas in this way ? Do you really think I am adopting the 'decal image of the latest doctrine' due to some prejudices I have ? Thats your perogative .... I think one would have to be clear on what is causing and motivating one's 'intuition' to give that, alone, precedence outside of 'empirical findings' . No, not generally, its just that early in my investigations into the occult and similar realms I hit upon the idea of 'scientific illuminism' using the principles of science to investigate occultism, instead of just believing what appeals to one, for whatever reason that may be ... its about getting a clear view, relatively removed from ones hopes and beliefs ... like that guy in your cartoon A new discovery like that, will of course lead to an expanded view on our history ... that is a very safe 'prophetic' bet .... I mean , that's already happened ! prophesy ... you're funny Great ! First up, can you answer my question above about the map of Atlantis you posted ; Are you claiming it represents some physical land in that location ? Just to be clear I will state my position on Atlantis ... its pretty much what the wiki article says, and what empirical findings show; " Atlantis is a fictional island mentioned within an allegory on the hubris of nations in Plato's works Timaeus and Critias, where it represents the antagonist naval power that besieges "Ancient Athens", the pseudo-historic embodiment of Plato's ideal state (see The Republic). In the story, Athens was able to repel the Atlantean attack, unlike any other nation of the (western) known world, supposedly giving testament to the superiority of Plato's concept of a state. " What is you view on what Atlantis was ( or is ) ?

I personally love the humor of chuang tzu the point of consciousness where there is no me or you or butterfly dream, brillant anything that challenges the intellect is most awesome Tai chi chuan capitalizes on the point of consciousness where people are not aware of movement they see the beginning and end, change the end and one is a incredible boxer. As far as tai chi chuan not being a complete system the name itself exemplifies wholeness. It is born from Taoist philosophy and applied physically. IE not being a mental concept.

No, it's more like saying that the truth is often obfuscated by ignorant twats wankers. Unfortunately, political correctness usually precludes speaking that truth clearly even on the occasions when it's actually appropriate. However, to answer your question more fully: - There are several different (and possibly apparently contradictory ways) to approach this, which I'll illustrate by giving just three different answers. Bear in mind that there are many other possibilities and if we were discussing this in-person, we might use a process of iteration to facilitate your own innate ability to home into the most satisfactory answer for yourself (working on the assumption that your question is sincere)... Interestingly, the final answer would not come from me but from you and our honest interaction and the answer would belong to you because the act of sincere questioning is what produces any answer. Also, it's worth considering the view that an answer is a bīja (बीज) (as opposed to a concrete truth). In any case, questions and answers are a duality and not ultimate Truth. What I'm outlining here is an illustration of jñāna yoga. So...., depending on how I choose to respond, I could say: - 1. "Of course - do you imagine that I could do the work for you...?" or I could point towards the ephemeral nature of the (imagined) personal identity by saying: - 2. "Zhuang Zhou was a jnani who illustrated anatta with his parable about the butterfly dream". In this case, I'dbe asking you to challenge yourself because you'd need to deal with a lot of personal prejudice (not least your entirely understandable and justified prejudices about Buddhism). or: - 3. I could just keep my gob shut and watch you talk to yourself... BTW, did I ever happen to mention that I'm actually a (real-life) Buddhist...?

Galantamine is a prescription only medication used to combat the effects of Alzheimer's disease. As one of the side effects is hallucinations the dreams it may produce could be anything but lucid. The vomiting, nausea, abdominal pain and diarrhoea could also prove interesting whilst in the dream state. Galantamine Side-effectsvomiting, nausea, abdominal pain, diarrhoea, dyspepsia, decreased appetite, weight loss, bradycardia, hypertension, syncope, hallucination, depression, dizziness, tremor, headache, fatigue, malaise, muscle spasm, fall, laceration; less commonly retching, dehydration, hypotension, flushing, palpitation, arrhythmias, first-degree AV block, taste disturbance, paraesthesia, seizures, hypersomnia, muscular weakness, blurred vision, tinnitus, hypersensitivity, sweating; rarely exacerbation of Parkinson’s disease, hepatitis.

Yes of course, good point, although the same problem still occurs. We still need a lot of self-awareness before we are in a position to understand our dreams. Also, in terms of impact, there is a big difference between meeting the anima in your dreams and meeting her psychoid form in reality. I wonder if Jung ever talked about this? Perhaps the dream is a kind of intimation of what is coming - a kind of preparation?

Easier said than done. We live in the age of information. Shit everywhere man. But thanks for the advice. Its good advice. I focus on my breathing untill the mind just stops chattering all kinds of things. And I just focus on my breathing. In an out. Untill I fall asleep and dream of bullsht. And then I finally wake up and I can take a good shower after such a bullsht dream and then I can focus on my breathing again. Its meaningless but its better than bullsht. I hope truth grows like a cancer and one day we can live in a more clean world.

Had a dream where i was given a puppy anubis by a dude getting out of a black mercedes. I didnt figure out the symbolism until later.

Unfortunately there's nothing clear or simple about Jung's psychology - and that's especially the case when it comes to an explanation of archetypes - but here's a passage I like from The Archetypes and the Collective Unconscious...... Not for a moment dare we succumb to the illusion that an archetype can be finally explained and disposed of. Even the best attempts at explanation are only more or less successful translations into another metaphorical language. (Indeed, language itself is only an image.) The most we can do is to dream the myth onwards and give it a modern dress. And whatever explanation or interpretation does to it, we do to our own soul as well, with corresponding results for our own well-being. The archetype—let us never forget this—is a psychic organ present in all of us. A bad explanation means a correspondingly bad attitude to this organ, which may thus be injured. But the ultimate sufferer is the bad interpreter himself. Hence the "explanation” should always be such that the functional significance of the archetype remains unimpaired, so that an adequate and meaningful connection between the conscious mind and the archetypes is assured. For the archetype is an element of our psychic structure and thus a vital and necessary component in our psychic economy. It represents or personifies certain instinctive data of the dark, primitive psyche, the real but invisible root of consciousness. Of what elementary importance the connection with these roots is, we see from the preoccupation of the primitive mentality with certain "magic" factors, which are nothing less than what we would call archetypes. This original form of religio ("linking back") is the essence, the working basis of all religious life even today, and always will be, whatever future form this life may take. There is no "rational" substitute for the archetype any more than there is for the cerebellum or the kidneys. We can examine the physical organs anatomically, histologically, and embryologically. This would correspond to an outline of archetypal phenomenology and its presentation in terms of comparative history. But we only arrive at the meaning of a physical organ when we begin to ask teleological questions. Hence the query arises: What is the biological purpose of the archetype? Just as physiology answers such a question for the body, so it is the business of psychology to answer it for the archetype.

Red asparagus? Not sure, we're constantly on the hunt, and can't find it reliably. I've tried quite a few reishi varieties. I like the Purple Reishi the most as a single herb for it's meditative effects, and dream quality enhancement. You might also try Albizia flowers. Calms the heart, but is also very uplifting.

As I've gotten older I've found much of what is wrong with the world happened due to people with good intentions who either didn't anticipate unintended consequences or whose view of what is 'good' was actually a selfish dream. Even when they acted with what we'd consider virtue; for the good of all, they didn't end up with it. I see this in politics quite often. Virtue needs to be more then just trying to do good. Good is nice.. but too slippery.

I come across alot of ideas of protection whenever I face groups of individuals who are spiritually awakening and getting to know their mind It is unimportant from which direction the Self is getting approach through the mind, after a few invitations of that spiritual side of Nature (capital N, the One Nature, not earth-only nature) and because one does so from one's own personality, a certain kind of threat is experienced and the idea of protection is raised This threat is only experience through bias of what one does not yet want to see and/or experience, but is part of the whole. Having no concepts yet for it and not seeing that it actually is possible and plausible to live without any concepts at all, shutting it out is natural and pain is experienced. In all honesty, looking at the spiritual evolution of current mankind with the most neutral eyes possible, a minority is only interested in getting to know one's Self directly from or as it's Totality ...and along my journey I have understood why Personality Personality is the only reason why protection is needed. Personality because one wants to achieve something, wants to improve one's Self and show off to others and all the myriads of ideas of seperation, of being unable to (...) in so many ways and needy for something external to complete oneself, participating in this entire false, but apparently necessary, game we play Personality is so easily acquired by just looking at objects, interaction through mind via thoughts and emotions are automatically created and shape the individual. It is the standard program of a human on auto-pilot and which at one point in the evolution of the individual gets questioned and eventually, through conscious action, replaced If there is willingness to know Truth, followed and then acted upon that impulse, the individual will know it's limitations very fast. It will understand that there is an infinite number of personal truths which s/he is constantly facing in this human life and also and most importantly having to face it's own truth based upon mostly unconsciously formed, partially consciously formed, personal beliefs. The individual eventually will realize that in order to know Truth it has to surrender it's personal ideas, for these ideas were always at War with all other individual beliefs and with a greater flow of something that sustained him or her over the years and slowly is vanishing, more pain is experienced. Eventually the individual will surrender it's personal beliefs in a moment of complete exhaustion and in that very moment something will find him or her. And that which will present itself to him or her will be so profound and so vast in power and experience of the perceived energy that all interest in further accumulating of more personal ideas, beliefs and a future lifestyle out of it, is completely discarded. All energetic layers of the individual have been shown what Truth is again. From there on the individuals knows that the uppermost protection he or she can ever have, will be the interest to Know One's Self and to Live From That Place. This can be read as the most ignorant and toxic information but in Truth (with a capitcal T, as The One Absolute) it is the highest truth that you will ever hear and know for your Self: Group-thinking is poluted. Community is poluted. Society is poluted. All ideas we have on this planet right now of co-existing with eachother are totally corrupted. They are corrupted because we do no longer see them from the Source. We see them from an individual perspective that has not yet realized it's totality and can not yet live, both as individual and as totality again. It can only live as individual for now and therefor is a complete imbalance in that very expression. Subject to change of course. The only Reality (again with a capital R, for The One Underlying and Absolute) is that there is only One. This One is both you and me at the same time. Unfortunatelly the nature of the individuals mind, coming from it's personality sees something external to itself and experiences all the lower emotions, from Human Heart downwards, where all ideas of seperation are generated from. If your spiritual understanding grows and you want to evolve into the One, when you reach your Heart, in order to proceed, you have to let go of your personality. To every Ego, surrendering the individual's personality, this sounds like the most frightening and threatening thing, I just have to remember bits of my own past before this personal exhaustion happened, but in essence it leads to the Complete opposite, to complete Creative Freedom as a self-realized, individual consciousness. The freedom to slowly but surely experience your Self as everything And this human body at the same time. With it all ideas and feelings of seperation dissolve. All energies and expressions out of it, abilities, come naturally. Did you had a struggle to walk as young human? Did you have to manipulate your energy in order to perform all the actions you do, with your body? No, you just went with the flow of the natural way of how God creates and experienced bliss in your very young years until more and more blockages from this then forming, personal mind shut it out It is yours to understand Just this and release and evolve with the Interest to get to know your Self. ... I am praised in my skills to express my Self in my mothertongue, german, and I do my best here in English and I can tell you, from the joy I have to do so, to describe the complexity of the transformation happening when you reach it, allow yourself to surrender into it, I say this with full empowerement: It is impossible to descibe it Words end here and words are less and less needed. Spoken word is less and less needed and especially thoughts do no longer interest. For you have nothing to ask anymore. It's just letting the energy that was once used for thought all it's repetitions steadily calm down and be used for finer layer of existance. It is the direct way. And it has no end to it. It is the free will of the individual to approach the Self, as him- or herself, from it's mind or with the willingness of direct experience going beyond the mind and letting the Self present itself to oneself. Without effort, just surrendering and know one will constantly presented more of one's Self and only one's Self. Paradoxically in the beginning phase the most difficult for a mind due to the root and it's fear of death, idea of seperation that in Reality does not exist. There is no stage, it is a direct evolution, a very pure evolution and the ego that will appear and disappear many many times, is constantly be refined. To such a thing degree, that it can be willingly dropped and surrender into the Self, to use the individuals consciousness as a living Sakrament of the Self here in this reality and then stepped out of it and embodied the individual again This Self is you and is me, timeless and at the same time in a time-bound form And it holds the only protection that there is: No protection, a condition that is so fluid and flexible that it can no longer be seen as such It is giving up everything to receive everything. It is living as a transcended being, from human consciousness to God consciousness, freely able to merge at any given time And also able to ascend it's human form to what all of you dream off. But not from a personal, earth-bound, human personality driven by manipulation, but from receiving everything, unfiltered from Source itself. As it. I loved to be a thief, to steal and to manipulate in so many seemingly intelligent ways. Just to stretch my personality to such a disgusting degree that I sheerly destroyed it. You already are this in so many ways. Do it and do it More. Not only bits but with passion! Search for protection, try to protect yourself and find always greater and greater enemies! Until the personal energies of this human vessel is at it's perceived end. Just to reach all of this what I am writing about here... It is reality. This understanding will be yours and deeper and deeper it goes That is why self-realization is the only protection that is and ever will be. Love for one's Self is love for everything, regardless how it appears as one's Self again. That is the reason, the spiritualy-scientific reason that you can accept Why you want to love yourself first. Then you know yourself and what it is that you are actually loving there, then you perceive that you Have and then giving is natural because you are Full of your Self. This energy coming with this realization will show you first hand. All doubts are no more. Free from all concepts, all dislikes, all fantasies and illusion - pure and direct Reality. It is your birthright, take it

Deep (or perhaps not so deep) inside, almost everybody has a dream or vision of what they would really like to do in/with their life. This is something that emerges from the unconscious inner self. But, sure enough, the conscious self has objections at hand immediately: "You can't make a living that way", "you're too old", "it would take too much time to build it up", "you don't have the funds for that", "you lack the talent", "the people around you wouldn't approve of it", and so forth. Obviously, what we tell ourselves is often the warnings that we once received from others. Yet these "stupid ideas" are messages from our soul; they are meaningful and should be looked at. Neglecting them is often the reason for our depression. Even if we will possibly never be able to put them into action as such, we might find some form of expressing them that will enrich our life experience and give us satisfaction. What is your secret yearning, Nikolai? Maybe you don't want to say it in public, that would be fine. But you really have not the least idea? Pardon me if I don’t quite buy that... However, if it is in fact so, then you must ask your inner self for a vision to guide you. If that works for the American Indians, why shouldn't it work for you.

A few things that have worked for me - 1. No electronic stimulation for at least an hour before bed (more time is better) 2. Don't eat too late at night 3. No alcohol or caffeine in the evening or night 4. Meditation before bed but make sure it is a relaxing, stabilizing type of meditation. Some methods can be quite stimulating and will work against you 5. If you wake up in the middle of the night and have trouble falling back asleep this is a normal rhythm. Take advantage of it - sex if you have a partner is a good idea, meditation, write a poem, just don't go for any electronic stimulation 6. In general, it is the thinking that tends to keep us awake. Thinking about not being able to sleep, why, how it will affect us the next day, and so on... If you can calm the thoughts and relax into your body in an easy and comfortable way, that helps. 7. My sleep was never so good until I began a more consistent daily meditation routine (early in the morning) combined with dream yoga practices 8. Some sort of strenuous physical exercise or work during the day helps but not right before bed 9. A warm bath before bed can help also Good luck

Not really. Although I have contemplated 'taking responsibility for my own death'. So I am going to offer an opposite take on it A few times I have been very close to death ( I mean personally, I have also been close to others death, been with them when dying and had to care for the bodies of the dead ... some in a pretty smashed up state ) , with my own close calls - even to the point of the police not believing me that I was the driver of that car ... they took me over to it and indicated the roof crushed into the drivers seat, asked how I could have survived that and why did I remove the drivers body and where did I hide it ? I couldnt explain it either, I had a bump on my head and got 3 stitches in my thumb ... if a witness had not seen me crawling out the passenger side ..... ? Several more incidents like that - ' accidental ' ... then a few years back a big health one ... on the way out - for sure this time Even the Doc at the Cancer clinic approved my plan (unofficially) to not go into treatment , and be sick on their horrible drugs and have my life extended by maybe 2 - 5 years .... sick in a gerri ward ... he said "you seem like the type that will go bush and take care of things yourself ?" I accepted that ... I have had a great life and already lived longer than I expected, achieved my life's dream and several more I never knew I had ! I entered a state of tripping ecstasy (without drugs ) ... every blade of grass ,,, every insect ... all of life open up into this amazing ..... 'connection' . But then , a 'remission' of sorts ... maybe an extra 20 years ? ( next thing I know I get a gorgeous 26 year old girlfriend who has 3 kids and I am hurled into a world I never experienced before ) .... great stuff ! So, no depression or resignation whatsoever . But I still plan on killing myself when its time ... why should I have to die according to someone else's concept ? The issue is .... as I found out ... the last minute it could all turn around , What a bummer if I bumped myself off too early ! Also, the issue of leaving things too late, so you cant do it yourself. Thats where friends come in ... real friends ... not emotional cling on attachments. I do have pain ... sometimes bad ... but its just physical... and I cant take painkillers because it will unbalance my liver - [ got Hep C , but have kept tabs on it for 15 years with TCM ,,, which surprises the docs ... "why have you not degenerated?" Me; " TCM ! " ... any pain seems better than a failing liver, I know, I have felt that a bit, and I have nursed people dying from that . Docs: <frowning disapproval > 'But you have not degenerated ' .... Me ; " T CM. " .... Docs: <frowning disapproval > ] Pain very day .... for over 6 months now ( and another 10 to go .... awaiting a hip replacement on free government list) but not enough to end it all. Some days , I cant even put weight on it ... still I can crawl around the garden in dirt and sunshine with a nice view and weed the vegies and stuff , occasionally, on a good day, I can limp around at training and still show the guys a trick or two with the sword (cant grapple though ) I hope anyone who has a depression and suffers pain ... so much that it feels unbearable ... passes through it and manages to experience the pure joy of simply still being alive that I can feel at times .

Nope, in my dark place it was not a case of a lack in interest or motivation, but a feeling of there being no hope left. When you're in a stressful situation, there is often a little part of you which stays rational and can tell you that, in the end, you'll be ok. Say you've got some very hard exams coming up, no matter what happens, in time, they'll have passed, and your rational part of the mind tells you this and helps to keep you sane. But, if you're in a place where not even this little rational part can tell you it'll be ok, you lose hope and start to really despair, this was for me when I started entertaining very negative thoughts (in, what felt like, a rational manner). Unfortunately, from this place, it can make me look at your situation and think - 'Man you have it easy', just get off your a*** and do stuff. Now, I know its far from this easy, because it is that very motivation which you are lacking which is preventing you from getting involved in life. There is one way to approach it - get in to a little debt and take a holiday, maybe a dream one somewhere. When you get back you'll want to take another one and, hopefully, you'll start doing stuff to make that happen. You'll also have something to talk about with enthusiasm with others.

A lot of people are going to comment in this thread without having any experience with the astral plane themselves. It's understandable, but not always the best thing. I have some experience with the astral plane - not much, but a little. Here's what I will say: First, make sure that your experience actually takes place in the astral plane and not a lucid dream. In my experience the difference is that my energy body tingles, vibrates and shakes almost like a washing machine just before popping into the astral plane. In the astral plane I typically find myself floating, and I can use my consciousness to guide the direction of my floating/flying. Also, when in the astral I am conscious from the get-go, and don't dream a normal dream and then become conscious half-way into it. In the astral plane I also find myself near or in my bed when I access the plane and not in some fancy dream world. Often the astral plane looks kind of dull. Now, if your experience does take place in the astral world then there are a number of ways you can deal with it. Remember: The astral plane is made up of and manipulable by mind energy - intent, will, consciousness. So if you want these fuckers to go away you can visualize a big whopper of a sword and then swing it with your mind to chop their heads off. You could also just visualize the attackers being disintegrated, melting or spontaneously combusting. I got harassed by negative entities some years ago and when I struck back they disappeared. If it's a simple negative entity/astral dweller/astral junk then you should have no problem beating the crap out of him. If it's another entity - well, I've never actually spoken to a person who got harassed by anything else than a negative entity - the only people who talk about "demons" seem to be those who promote their "how to defeat a demon-book" - but if it's another type of entity then it maybe needs more whopping, or other methods entirely. You could also just project yourself out of your house, by thinking up and projecting your energy body through the ceiling. Probably better to stay and fight though. Another trick is to daily train the famous psychic shield or energy shield, as it will create an energy perimeter that negative entities are said to be unable to penetrate. Certain crystals like black tourmaline are also said to have defensive capabilities against negative energies. You can look up Robert Bruce who has written about astral projection and psychic self-defense. Best of luck

after you can use Almond oil or apricot seed oil to put on your skin, should be organic if possible - very nourishing and grounding oils and also warming Actually based on what thelerner said in his post you could even add fresh or try sage or sage oil to the bathtub, or sandalwood oil (in india they use sandalwood to get rid of strange energies) my girlfriend did that with lavender oil for me one time - I felt like earth itself after that bath and slept 13hours straight, I was traveling through half europe in 2 weeks before that, translating for one of my lamas, my girlfriend saw me and put me into the salt bath immidiately - was sooooo good, like a day in a spa just cheaper and bigger results dont use soap when you do the baths or showers, just hot water (as hot as you can stand!!! should be HOT) and salt (all together 500gr for the bath or 250gr for the shower) repeat for some days, and see what happens to your day to day life and dream life also I want to remind you again that you are most probably meeting parts of your own psyche, maybe split off parts? I can't say that for sure of course but I do think it is a better working basis to overcome this obstacle then the idea that magicians or shamans or enteties are attacking you, I mean ok maybe they do - maybe, who knows. but I got a feeling that you are not under any sort of attack from the "outside" I do guess work here, but I will try to tell you why I think it is not from the outside.... you can agree or disagree I actually more and more believe that the ideas of "inside" and "outside" are not a good way to deal with reality when I was in Psychotherapy my gestalt therapist even proposed that everytime you think this or that person is like this and that, has this and that charackter and this and that problem, as soon as those thoughts pop up, he said just stop and ask yourself why AM I LIKE THIS AND THAT, WHY DO I HAVE THIS AND THAT CHARACKTER AND PROBLEM? a 180 degree shift in perception - because most of what we think of as out there is just our "ideas" projected unto something inexpressible anyway. he also said as long as we think situtaions out there, people out there are the source of our problems and suffering we basically confirm that we are weak and victims - better to take responsebility for ourselves and our problems - because then we can do something about it - we can't change the outside world too much to conform to our imagined needs and wants anyway - better investigate and work with our minds that is the same basic working position of all the mahayana mind training teachings I received, so also Buddha and Buddhist masters of India and Tibet work on the basis of not looking for faults, problems, obstacles "out there" but "in here" they are just more radical because even if it is obviously really obviously not your fault but comming from an "outside" aggressor well still its your fault because of previous Karma so one should be happy to be able to go through this Karmic effect and let it go, practice the paramita of patience shantideva says in his "entering the way of a Bodhisattva" there is no greater evil then anger therefor there is no great austerity then patience an very simple example for this (the level of western psychology, not eastern psychology): you go to work and meet one of your co workers, you look at this person and want to ask him "why are you so tired, you look so stressed" - just stop a second, don't ask this person and ask that quesiton yourself "why am I so tired and stressed?" most of our interactions with other people are based on our projections and introjections etc. I also think you will overcome this problem somehow and slowly have alot of precious insights into human nature - and I wish that to you as well stay strong and yes take a break from practice - reduce it a bit and simmer down, integration of new energies and insights is as important as opening them up in my experience