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great silent thunder! "These can hold for some length of time as I don't chase them or fill them, just empty observation." You've clearly developed a great non-attachment. I've recently started practicing zhine' (part of tibetan dream and sleep yoga) - which is expanding this greatly. Yes, darkness practice. Quite by circumstance, I've been doing my meditation practice in the darkness of the morning hours. This came about due to wanting to keep a balance between practice and family/partner. I practice in the morning for 2 hours while my wife, dog and cat sleep in our bedroom. We had to black out the room a few months back because the halogen street light was so full-on and shining right in the window. So, I just go with the flow. The open eye bit I adopted to keep focused as I've been having trouble grounding with neigong work over the last 6 months (ET trouble). Then I get to the next level in my Kriya Yoga practice and am asked to work in a blacked out room, and then I get to my next level in Time Travel training (and dream yoga) and am asked to open eye meditate. So both are fantastic - JAJ states that open-eye meditation can/does cause "agitation", and i've since read that this is one of the first stages/obstacles in the zhine' practice - and a stage that is moved beyond - to the point of cultivating the "calm abiding" mind (which is taking the "empty observation" to the abiding in non-dual presence level, "rigpa". The dark room thing is very interesting. I've seen my wife's spirit come and go, and her hun coming and going, other spirit orbs darting around, i've seen through my bedroom walls with eyes closed a few times too. It all comes down to calm abiding mind, and the development of jing, qi, and shen transformations. But, in all of that I'm not sure what this shimmering silver/white light is. I've heard of a reference to the shimmering light which is the food for the golden fetus - and it resonates with that - but my neigong is only starting...

I had a nearly identical experience once, where a care pulled into the exact position I was occupying without seeing me. It was rush hour on the interstate coming out of downtown Tampa. Packed... but we were actually going 50mph or so. No time to process, I simply trusted, and moved between two cars next to me... all happened in an instant... other car didn't even seem to notice. As far as time slowing down.... not so much in this case. But there have been other times. I believe we reach a compressed state of perception, similar to what some drugs induce, but with more clarity. People really do have their life flash before their eyes at critical life or death junctures. This is part of taoist attainment as well. Don't we slow time down as we dream? I've read of some taoists who might need to give a lecture the next day. They might intentionally dream for a 2 hours and have 5 hours worth of material for their lecture. Why not while awake?

Thanks for sharing Alchemical Walrus! Your words resonate deeply here and touch on key aspects of taoist cosmology in my experience. As it applies to daily life. I no longer perceive life and death as separate, they are one constant mingling fluid dance that resonates bliss, fulfillment, clarity and love in all phases. My awareness is drawn lately, daily... on my walks, when running errands, to the decay that supports all life... I find attention drawn to and lingers far longer with the brown decaying grasses, with the withering leaves and the fallen decaying aspects of nature... not the green, lush and full ones. I am appreciating and experiencing on a deep level, the process of decay that nourishes all life. And it is so full of love! Beyond words, but I'll try once again, because the experience of decay is so full of bliss, clarity... and contentment. Release and freedom. Decay is happening now, in my gut (and all through my form, but particularly the decay in the gut), and this decay is what nourishes my physical life, nurturing the foundation of this form and the experience of vitality. Decay is the soil of the growth of life. Life feeds on decay and decay nourishes all life. The soil of our entire planet, is literally the bodies of all that ever lived... be they plant, animal, reptile, or insect. Life is acquisitional, seeking and consumptive. Decay is nourishing, releasing and nurturing. These are two aspects of one process. As a toddler, I had an experience that was to set a foundation in my life. A massive blessing, in the form of a nightmare so terrifying, it prompted my awareness to eject from my body for a short time as I tried to escape the horror. Once out of the dream, all horror instantly vanished, forgotten as I was in shock, marveling at the sudden shift. I found myself looking down from the ceiling of a small room, at a little boy lying under covers in bed. After a few lingering moments, the thought... "is that me?" and then, I was back, looking out of my body at the spot on the ceiling I had just been looking down on my 'self' from, moments before. This experience, rendered me immune to the fear of body death before even having a concept of death, or of a self as a body that could die. When I later encountered death, it was not a matter of thought... it was an experiential recall that awareness is not limited, nor generated by form. Decay. Far from being feared I now relish and celebrate her nourishing love. Not from a desire to obliterate my form, or any other. But from a deeply experienced appreciation of the shear nurturing, nourishing love emanating from the side of the life process that asks nothing, requires nothing and gives everything.

There are enlightened individuals such as Buddha and his followers , Jesus and his disciples, who demonstrate that a life lived in peace is also a life lived in prosperity, respectful to the others and the environment. (I mean Buddha himself spawned Shaolin Kung Fu and Chi Kung, and Jesus performed regular healing miracles...human potential is amazing). I feel a big problem nowadays is that we all emphasise prosperity at the expense of peace. Maybe we have it backwards?? Wars can come and go, but it is the war within a human being that can rage for a whole lifetime and be unresolved, that causes the most damage. When human being is unhappy within, he will be willing to exploit and cheat another human. Conversely, if we all sought what Buddha and Jesus found, even just a fraction, imagine what our combined efforts could create at healing and improving the planet. One can dream.

I am a student, and have only studied with one teacher deeply in these arts, thus I can only offer a limited view and perhaps a partial picture of this whole process. The act of "dreaming" is related to the pattern of the Metal conquering Wood; Or the Po suppressing the Hun during the night. The Po resides in the Lung Sphere and may be thought of in one regard as Metal Element. Hun resides in the Liver Sphere, and may be thought of in one regard as Wood Element. Po sponsors Death and has a relation to Jing. Hun spsonsors Life and has a relationship to Soul. When the Hun is suppressed by the Po at night during sleeping, The Hun wanders away from the sphere of the liver, and the resulting experience is dreams. As Jing is transformed into Qi, and the Hun is strengthened, there is less and less dream activity during the sleep state. This will also reflect in the strengthening of Yang and the uprooting of Yin; so many Yin quality will be transformed or uprooted. I think the most important starting point is the Cleaning of the Heart Mind, or to Still the Mind and Clean the Heart Mind of All Desire. After this point, one may begin the process of transforming the Jing back to Qi. This is the Stage of Burning the Slow Fire or Lighting the Fire. There is a method and technique taught and a transmission given for this practice. Later it becomes a very natural state; with no artificial method or technique used, and takes place naturally. Signs from this practice include: ~ an expansion and feeling much like a vast clear blue sky. ~ a steaming, or something heavy from below becoming light, and rising up ward in an expansion that is full of a kind of bliss. ~ shrinking of the genital organ and the testicles after the transformation; like the "ball" shrinks to a very small size if you feel it after practice. ~ mental stillness, and lack of dream activity. Signs that the transformation was not done properly or enough: ~ The whole abdomen feels very wet, or damp, like there is something on the skin in the area and also something inside - but when you feel it, there is only dry skin. ~ A moving in the Dantian as you lie down to sleep, like a worm moving around. ~ much dream activity, and emission of the fluid in sleep. After such a stage has been taken for a time, with Jing transforming back to Qi, the Yang Qi will begin to be cultivated and harvested. In my experience, as Yang Qi begins to come on the scene of the practice, there can be light, strong dropping into a deep emptiness, erection, and a great overwhelming heat and most notable is the loud vibration and roaring sound........ the sound that is outside, and inside, and a sound and a substance, with a feeling, vibration, density and more..... This sound is one of the main signs of the arrivalof Yang Qi. When the Heart Mind has not been stilled and cleaned enough, there can be grasping and mental activity when the Yang Qi arrives. This will lead to a great heat and a huge volume of sweat will usually pour off the body. This is a sign that the Yang Qi has transformed to a physical or Post Heaven state, and is discharged and lost. Yang Qi derives from the Emptiness that surrounds Heaven and Earth; thus it is attracted to Emptiness. So one of the aspects of the "timing" is to have "no timing" and to fall into the emptiness at the time of the arrival of the Yang Qi........ Usually one may use the "power" of the ears to "listen" and "follow" the sound...... Following it back to it's origin and root. Around this time of practice one may begin to move into the Large Water Wheel state - or the begining of this process being started. So the Yong Chuan will begin to pulse and vibrate along or in rhythm with this sound. Also the Qi moves with such a strong force and surging motion, like it wants to run its own course and has its own idea of the course it wishes to take, along with the arrival of the Yang Qi. It was taught that at this time, one should begin to practice "lying" on the back. You lay down on the back, with the belly facing the ceiling, and let the qi run its course, and allowing the Yang Qi to arrive on the scene. You forget all aspects of self. You forget all aspects of the corporeal body. You forget all aspects of ego. You fall into the deep empty state, and allow the Qi to run its course freely from Yong Chuan to Bai Hui - though really it has nothing to do with the corporeal body nor any location we may map or chart on the corporeal body and its related landmarks. This is one aspect of sleeping practice. You practice at night, and as it is not a difficult posture to hold, you may train for many, many hours in the night. The first stages of: Tempering the Heart and Cleansing of All Desire and Stray Thoughts Transferal of Jing to Qi Small Water Wheel Harvest of Yang Qi Large Water Wheel All these stages can be done in the city, and while leading a normal life. The stage of Incubation is the time one must move into an isolated place and live away from people and noise in order to complete. I just came back from Huashan and spent time with my companion of tao there. He trains in the sleeping practice of Huashan and the Dream Yoga. We sleep in caves together, and he has never given any formal teachings or ideas about such a practice. Just we lie down and face each other, and waves come over one, and states are experienced.... Deep states of emptiness, and profound Qi circulation....... Like falling into an ocean, and then rising up into the sky, then expanding into the entire vastness of the sky..... I asked him about "Sleep Practice" and he just laughed and said it is just the same as doing the "meditation" work, only you do it lying down..........

Hey , so to start off with I should say that I am a complete novice in meditation, but I had some experiences that I would like to hear your opinions on. The other day I was sitting in meditation. It was the fourth time I had ever attempted meditation. I was sitting in the half lotus form and breathing deeply whilst focusing on my lower Dantien. I started feeling a weight, like someone had placed a stone in my stomach and there was this tingling sensation all around the weight. Does anyone know what this is? Is this an indication of doing something right or wrong? Or was it merely my stomach muscles reacting to the breathing or something? Okay so how does this tie in with Lucid dreaming or OBE? I am no stranger to lucid dreaming and experience lucid dreams often, but there are two scenarios that I experienced that I think could have been outer body experiences. To be clear they could have been normal lucid dreams but felt so much different. The same tingling sensation was present during both these experiences. Case 1: I was taking an afternoon nap when I had a dream of me waking up on my bed in the position I was when I fell asleep. The only reason I knew I was dreaming was because I looked at my door and saw that it was open. I never sleep with an open door, so that's when I knew I was dreaming. I walked through my house and went outside. There were dark figures standing everywhere in the streets and on the lawn. This freaked me out a bit and I woke up. Throughout this experience and for a little while after waking I felt that same tingling sensation in my head. Case 2: I was in my brothers flat taking a nap between classes when I had a dream that I had woken up and was getting out of bed and walking around In the flat. I knew something was strange and I experienced the same tingling sensation in my head again. I thought "Its happening again!" and then woke up with the tingling still in my head. Does anyone know what this tingling sensation is and if the sensation experienced whilst meditating and those of the lucid dreams/OBE's are related?

Hey everyone. I am from South Africa. Any other South Africans here? It has been a long journey that brought me to this place, so I guess I will give you guys a quick overview of what lead me here. When I was younger I wanted to be good at meeting girls and getting them to like me, so I studied a lot about the topic of attraction and the psychology about why we do the things we do and how the human mind works. That lead me to study about what makes successful people successful and how to be financially successful. By this time I had long forgotten about girls and was struggling with questions like: What does it mean to be successful or happy? Why do we want the things we want? Why do we even get up in the morning? What really drives us and Why are we being driven? I realized that I was not in control of my own life. That this control was just an illusion, like a dream I am trying to escape. Still today I struggle. Everyone around me seems to still be stuck in the dream. I decided that I will find out how to get control over my life and to do that I would need to get full control over my mind. That has lead me to yoga and meditation and ultimately to this site. I hope to meet others who have also "woken up" and perhaps together we can make sense of what we as humans are capable of and what is really important and worth pursuing in life.

As a guy who's KO'd himself enough in decades of amateur motorcycle racing, awareness doesn't cease when KO'd, just conscious mind pauses for a bit and with good fortune resets. In heavy trauma (broken neck/spine KO's which I don't need to manifest occurring again with good fortune), sometimes memories of awareness during the crash event doesn't happen for a few days, but awareness diligently remained through it all. When sleeping, awareness remains perfect, conscious mind rests while awareness and subconscious mind plays or meditates in the internal dream state. I would never ask or expect anyone to believe anything Ive stated on the nature of awareness in natural sleep and/or KO'd states, as if I had not experienced it myself I would not believe it was possible either. I've only experienced perfect awareness during sleep for a 4 day period following a breakthrough plant teacher assisted 15hr meditation session on a long international flight. After the 4th day of being aware of everything through the whole night of sleep, I chose to let awareness in sleep return to being appreciated by subconscious mind alone, as it's optimized for perceiving sleep state awareness. Unlimited Love, -Bud

Craig, guys, Blasto, thanks for the responses. However i feel that the question can't be answered if the proof is only in the pudding. Ain't it? We must also realize that the systems that we practice and study didn't have much in common with CT as it is understood in the West, because Chinese as a people seem to be using Analogic rather than Logic thinking - and this applies more to mysticism than anything else. So i'm still wonderning about this one. However can we dismiss creationism as non-scientific, and embrace the possibilities opened up by spiritual practice? Many of the effects can be very well Placebos. And i don't intend to use the Placebo word as a critic, au contraire, it's recognizing the great power of the human mind, that can do for oneself's body-mind the same great things that it can achieve outside of it (complex constructions and technology etc). Should we dismiss that power as illusion? Could it be more to it than that? Tonight I had a dream in which i died as a result of an enormous catastrophic explosion, and in the dream, expected to dissolve into nothing. I felt my body die and turn to ashes. It was extremely vivid, vision-like. In my dream i woke up later, i felt i had a body again, and someone was looking at me, some familiar figure. If the proof is in the pudding, would this be a valid experience of afterlife? edit darn 'spells' (not a Native speaker)

Useless discussion. The important role of matter (and our body) in our everyday life is clear to see for anybody taking the trouble to reflect on how life is actually lived. We don't just dream up another reality when some aspect of our supposed dreamlike world needs to be changed. If such were the case there would indeed be reason to question the reality of matter, but there isn't. The supposedly awakened ones have to eat, drink, sleep, etc. like anyone else. They use the door to enter and leave the room. They don't ignore the supposed dreamlike Laws of Nature. Science is here put away as just another belief when the results are not appreciated, but then again computers are used al the same. And when some scientific result (such as entanglement) does happens to fit into the dogmatic picture it is suddenly accepted as a scientific fact as if science wasn't just another belief after all. But let's stop. This will lead nowhere as arguments don't count for those willing to believe.

What does anyone know about anything without awareness? By Awareness, I mean "that which makes knowing possible". It takes awareness to conceptualize this too. The universe is just a dream. Is our suffering controlled by the physics of the material universe? We suffer because we resist change. We stop suffering when we realize there is nothing to resist. Liberation is freedom from suffering. In a round about way, you are reinforcing the gist of the OP. There is no need for liberation, because no one was bound in the first place. The bondage is a misidentification.

Any conclusive insights about this? It seems some people have extensive phases of not remembering any dreams. Then sometimes dream activity is enormous. "What does it mean?", I wonder. While it might be worthwhile to examine a possible habit of not waking up directly after a dream, we don't ONLY remember dreams we wake up from, so that can't explain all of it.

Sure! We can all be a butcher, painter, writer, anything we want (or not want) to be by just letting go. No need to train, or study, or acquire any skills. That's why we see lots of beautiful examples on this forum of people actually living a Taoist life. Let it all come naturally. Dream on brother, you can fly... (The above is to be considered ironic.)

Animalwise: A Parable for Wayfarers Let me make it plain from the start. I‘m a proud and tough possum fending for myself in the wild. My one quirk is an uncanny interest in the strange realm of humans. They fascinate me. There’s a rustic old hermit’s hut with plenty of trees nearby within my territory that I like to regularly visit. It’s an easy climb up onto the iron roof. I love to run around and make a racket when I'm in the mood. It annoys the hell out of that peace loving hermit. Even better, I regularly sniff out small gaps and squeeze my way inside. There’s so many mysterious things for a possum to explore. A few nights back, whilst hot on the trail of freshly baked sourdough bread, I chanced upon a book lying on the table. Mind you, that’s not unusual. This old hermit is a cultivator of the Daoist and Buddhist way and has many books on the subject. I’ve browsed some of them while he sits oblivious in mediation, and I can tell you it baffles me why he needs books when we are all intrinsically of the Way. Every animal knows that, expect it seems it’s lost to humans. But that’s a mystery for another time, and this book wasn’t one of those anyway. It was a children’s book. There’s something about the look and smell of these battered, big type, brightly coloured hardcover books that touches my heart. Maybe it’s a memory of a simpler time. A time of wonder and easy enchantment when I too was child-like. I nibbled that very tasty bread, and pawed open the cover. It was a book of riddles. My eyes came to rest on a familiar conundrum. It totally grabbed my attention for an instant, until the sound of danger jolted me. That old hermit was on my tail wielding a broom. Humans! Now there’s an enigmatic species for you. Sometimes I despair of ever understanding them. They have so much yet never seem satisfied. Back with my daughter in the safety of my Tallowwood tree the riddle stayed in my mind. “Which came first, the chicken or the egg?” I’d heard it before except in our possum version it’s an eagle chick. When I first heard it as a youngster in PossumTree school my imagination was stirred and my reason challenged. I was drawn to its koan like impossibility. Now the riddle had become almost a cliché for “don’t even bother to try to understand this one”. It reminded me how easily curiosity about life’s mysteries fades as one grows older. I was chewing it over the next evening with some of the local wallabies. Wallabies are the true sages of us timeless ones; wise but invisible in their actions, helping but not intruding, absorbing cruelty without becoming vengeful. I have a lot of respect for wallabies. Most of us wild animals live a life Zhuang Zhou could only dream of. We have no possessions. When tired we sleep, when hungry we eat. We are masters of living in the moment. But within this tradition wallabies stand out. To me they’re bodhisattvas, though they themselves shun all labels and tell me that they are simple followers of the way of nature. Anyway, our discussion of the riddle soon led to the revelation of knowledge which is apparently well known within the wallaby lineage - but was certainly new to me. They gave me some interesting insights. Interesting enough to stir me to write them down. The wallabies have their own story on the purpose of human life. It’s told to all joeys at an early age to help them understand this strange and sometimes aggressive species. Considering its ancient origins I was surprised that, to the best of my knowledge, no possum had ever heard it before. But then that’s what wallabies are like. It takes patience and a Zen like empty mind for their stories to unfold. If you approach them with strong opinions, which being a possum I can't help but do, they'll scarcely dispute you. It is their nature to go along. So in my ignorance I often thought the wallabies agreed with me. It is only now as I grow older and less sure of anything that I’m able to see them in a different light. What I perceived as passivity and ignorance is in fact a manifestation of the contented detachment of true Daoist sages. For ones that lead such humble lives, the level of abstract thought that pervades the wallaby kingdom always surprises me. My encounter with this extraordinary analogy, which is after all just part of a parable for joeys, only reinforces my admiration for them. The wallabies liken human habitation on our planet to that eagle embryo growing inside its shell enclosed biosphere. Their analogy underpins major issues that wallabies, indeed all us animals, face every day as our habitat - indeed our very lives - continues to feed human growth. We are being eaten up, just like that yolk. But to my dismay, rather than condemnation and anger, I heard a worldview shaped by an entirely different paradigm. Old Longears, an elder (pictured meditating), explained further. “That eagle embryo uses the yolk to grow and eventually breaks out of its shell into an unforeseeably large world as an eagle chick, and then grows into a magnificent eagle able to soar through the skies. This is how things are; the joey grows from an egg, the tree from a seed. So too a similar process is occurring on an abstract level. Humans are experiencing remarkable evolutionary change. It is a difficult era for them. Their collective consciousness is like the embryo of a new life-form – one that's invisible to our eyes. It is a subtle entity, honed by intelligent reason, with empathy as its heart and the creative arts in its blood.” “They’re using the resources of our planet to build a web of interconnections between living minds. The larger the consciousness, the more energy needed to power it. I tell our joeys this is the way of things. It's neither right nor wrong - it just is. Like how our brains evolved from single celled organisms, constantly growing in energy needs along the way.” “Human consciousness is a part formed, resource hungry thing. At the most basic level those countless interconnections mean massive infrastructure. Many thoughtful people understandably feel anxious inside their finite resourced biosphere, aware of their growing numbers and ever increasing appetite. There's consternation too at pollution caused by clumsy technologies, and of the competition and greed that energizes much of the growth.” Old Longears continued in the seemingly nonchalant manner that I’ve learnt belies the natural wisdom and profound trust in the Way of these earthy macropods. “I‘ve heard the present period referred to as the sixth great extinction. This one caused by humans. So many of our fellow species are being lost.” “I tell our joeys in this difficult time our role is a simple one. We must live as wallabies have always lived. We must carry the knowledge of our possible destruction lightly and behave as if we live in blissful ignorance. We must help keep environmental stability in the midst of human flux by maintaining our traditional way of life. It’s our role within the great Way. We eat grass, we nurture our young, we play. We flee from danger. In death our bodies feed dingoes, our rotting carcasses, goannas. Our life is clearly delineated by our wallaby instincts. Our presence could be a marker for humans of the vital diversity of organic life, of the evolutionary wisdom we all embody. We are a tiny part of this intricately interwoven ecosystem, complexly alive on levels humans are as yet unable to comprehend. Our world is their world and all life is interconnected.” To me it sounded like gross injustice. “Why should humans occupy centre-stage? What about our rights?” I wanted to talk about a more secure future for animals, about actions we could take to protect our way of life. You know – protest! I was already thinking of all the roofs I could stomp on in the middle of the night. But their lack of response reminded me wallabies aren't ones for confrontation. They've been around a long time, just listening; watching the world unfold, solid in their wallaby nature. Old Longears said, “Think about the parable. All new life is needy and only knows how to take. It needs wise, warm and sometimes tough nurturing. Consciousness is no different. Humans like to think it's about them but really it's about the ongoing evolution of life itself. It's a fundamental wallaby belief that a healthy consciousness must eventually embrace the totality of biological life which hosts it.” I wasn't so sure myself but I knew I was still hungry. And food was all around. After a long period of peaceful eating in the noble silence so characteristic of us animals I came upon Zirana (pictured above, left). Her joey had just been on an adventure outside the pouch and her face still glowed with the excitement of it all. Old Longears once hinted that she was their wise one but I'd never heard her speak. So it surprised me when she said, though seemingly with reluctance, “Have patience dear possum. We're witnessing evolutionary change here and that's millenniums slow. Each retained adaption is the survivor of countless blind alleys and failures. Consciousness lives across the tensions created by difference. It needs meaningful dialogue between opposing perspectives in order to develop healthy and strong. It thrives on tackling appropriate levels of problems and conflict.” Us possums are always fighting over our territory and our mates so I could relate to that. We never seem to learn anything new though. Maybe lack of dialogue is our problem. But at least we're stable in our wants, unlike humans with their never ending need for more. “Zirana, your notion of our planet as somehow nurturing an emerging transcendent consciousness may be all very well for wallabies but I want to live my life my way, for me. What if humans bring catastrophe on us all?” She looked at me as if I was a joey who still didn't understand, “Human exceptionalism creates a tendency towards hubris, it's true. That power bestowed by enhanced awareness is a gift but also yokes them with a great burden. It’s lost them their innate animal wholeness so they can no longer live simple, spontaneous lives like us. They're increasingly feeling uncomfortable with the consequences of their actions because their empathy sphere is expanding too. Concern for the welfare of our whole planet is slowly gaining traction. We don't judge them harshly. Consciousness thrives at the edge of chaos. Truly, dear possum, consciousness is the new form of complex life evolving here. It has its own evolutionary imperatives, its own will to survive. Individual wishes count for only a little within the great pattern of life. We are all like straw dogs in this game” The encroaching dawn brought an end to our nocturnal ruminations. I was glad too. Interesting as it was, there's only so much a possum can accept. As I climbed up into my favourite Tallowwood tree hollow for much needed sleep, the thought foremost in my mind was “I shall do my best to survive, proudly, as the autonomous individual I surely am.” The Possum

Septimus, It is true, the highest heaven is not enough... for the even the highest heaven is still a thing so to speak as related to what could be called heavenly time, space and or forms. (thus any Beings or gods identified with those realms also suffer in one way or another) Btw, imo certain aspects of Buddhism which may be only partially understood can surely blow one's mind if there is not also the knowing of the pure joy which is beyond all realms and never fails or falls to sorrow; (sorrows such as identification with various forms in time and space which are prone to corruption; and I'm saying that even though I don't claim to fully understand everything about Buddism) "To be, or not to be", are not options for the Great Tao or Spirit if you will (?). Thus the quintessential freedom which is enough begins in knowing oneself as Spirit, the Spirit which can never be nailed down by any power of thought, no matter how great or keen such may be. Nothing is not nothing, and such are both thoughts. Further, the great "Wheel" is also like a dream, and even the relentless and exacting keeper of that dream is like a dream and thus has no power over the awakened Spirit that returns to Itself... which it never really left. Om

@Taiji Bum I've practiced what Tibetan Buddhists label Dream Yoga but from different sources. Are you only specifically interested in this practice if the source is Tibetan? ☮️

Hello Kate, Nature is unsentimental, man is sentimental. Catastrophes occur without malice. Atrocities occur with malice, but in the grand scheme they occur because certain things happened to cause them to occur. There is no greater force making these things happen, rather it's our own decisions that cause them to happen. To say that the collective conscious allows these things to happen is true, but to say that it causes them to happen may not be so. The reason I say good and evil are irrelevant is because one person views an action as good and another views it as evil. Good and evil are subjective to each persons interpretation. You can't even take something as universally reviled as incest and find a consensus that it is evil, after all Ramses the Great married three of his own daughters and he was the ruler of a civilization older than the entirety of Western Civilization. Our views are not as important as the results of our actions. If one causes another to suffer, then they should stop, but to think that suffering will end is silly. We are all asleep, dreaming. Some know they are dreaming and try to awaken, others have given themselves over to the dream, revel in the dream, believing the dream is real, when in fact it isn't. In my opinion life and death are equally important, but realizing the true nature of our existence is even more important. To understand that placing a value on something doesn't change it, to realize that compassion, whether viewed as good or evil, is still compassion, and choosing to practice compassion, now that's an amazing thing. When I lump atrocities and catastrophes together, it's because they both result in the same thing. You are placing a value on the cause, rather than what's happened, believing that by knowing the cause you can somehow stop it, when that's not true. Man, so long as he places value on things, will always have atrocities. This is the reason the Tao Teh Ching tells us to stop placing value on things, because greed is ultimately the root of strife. Even placing values on actions causes strife. If we truly want to live in harmony with one another, if we truly want to find peace in this world, then we must first be willing to give everything we have to another, without regret. If you can't do that, then I would suggest you become accustomed to atrocities. There is this notion that people need to change to be the way we want them to be, because we have the handle on how people should behave, yet we forget that all this is, is how we are taught to believe. Everything we know as good and evil is good and evil because someone has drilled into our heads that it is good and evil. The next time you see someone doing something "evil", like robbing a bank, ask yourself why they're doing it, what caused them to do it, and ultimately what the real "evil" is. In the end though, there is no good or evil Kate. Good and evil only exist within the confines of your mind. It's how you view things that makes them good or evil. Once you realize this, then good and evil become irrelevant and what is relevant is how you behave and treat your fellow man. Aaron

Absolutely agree that "all" plants are teachers... "Sacred" ones are different in that we have receptors in the brain tuned in to their teachings and can translate them into human comprehension more readily than the teachings of those plants that don't concern themselves specifically with our species, but in the grand scheme of things, "all" plants are sacred. Love McKenna's view of biology: "Animals are something plants invented in order to move seeds around." So true, so hilariously exactly right! I had a dream once, one of those which I recognize as "dreamtime dreams," as real as waking reality only more so. The context was weird (as often is the case with dreams): I was making a speech in front of an audience, advocating country living vs. urban or suburban, and couldn't come up with anything but platitudes -- "well, you get fresh air... more greenery... fresh produce... less pollution... fresh air..." when a loud and clear voice from the back of the audience offered, "And the pig squeak, don't forget the pig squeak!" I was very surprised but repeated sheepishly, yeah, OK, and the pig squeak... I woke up perplexed, with an urgent "don't forget the pig squeak" in my mind for no good reason. I told about the dream to a bunch of people online, and someone responded, "pig squeak is the name of a flower, a decorative garden plant." I googled up a picture and... OK, I recognized it. This plant grew in my back yard, right under the wall of the house, but I didn't plant it there, it planted itself. I didn't know what it was, maybe a weed? -- and I was thinking of pulling it out, but then decided to sort of ignore it and see what it turns into come summer. So when I put two and two together, I realized that the dream was induced by this plant, and it was asking me to water it. Don't forget the pig squeak! Since it's not a psychedelic plant, it had no other chance to penetrate my consciousness than to enter it in dreamtime, and since it's normally not a talking plant, it expressed itself briefly, but did succeed "planting a seed" of understanding, which flowered in my mind the next day, with a little research. The plant itself flowered a couple of weeks later (of course I started watering it daily), pretty pink flowers, pig squeak... beautiful. And quite entirely mind-blowing, come to think of it.

There is something much more interesting about time that is more mind blowing, but it's only mind blowing if you or someone you know has premonitions. I mean real premonitions, where you know that something is going to happen ahead of time and then it does happen according to detail. I'm not talking about someone who arrives at a possible future scenario through reasoning, it's like you see or feel that something specific is going to happen and then later it does. If time was linear then this would not be possible. I won't share my own experiences but one I heard. A kung fu brother of mine was in a small group who were students of some woman master of some (I think) Buddhist sect. and they were traveling around the country and camping out. One night she suddenly told everyone to move their tents from where they were with great urgency and they did. A couple of minutes later a car went off the mountain highway highway above them and crashed into the spot where the tents had been. < thread drift > She also did another thing that was interesting. At one point when they were all sitting together in a group she told my buddy "You really want to hit me with that stick, don't you?". After the first denial she told him to go get that stick and hit her with it, so he did. He got the stick and approached here and as he got closer he found it more and more difficult to advance, like in a dream where you are trying to run but you can only manage it in slow motion. He got a few feet closer to her and had to resort to crawling on all fours to try to advance, and then he simply was not able to go forward any more. Once this lady's teacher came to visit and my buddy was sitting in a tent with him and he asked him if was hungry, when he got a yes answer he just made an simple opening motion with his hands and a nice hot meal appeared in front of them, a real food meal. This is one way to tell if you have found a real teacher and not a charlatan, except the thing is they don't show you this stuff until you already are a dedicated student. < thread drift />

I too recommend Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche's book The Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep. Been referring back to it for years. It's a real gem.

Yes you can take knowledge into a dream . I have most definitely used my daytime knowledge to figure things out in dreams, the lucid dreams I mean. Fun stuff. To remember dreams more often, and to get to the point of lucid dreaming, write every single dream down. It works better than one would think, even if it is so simple. On the nights you don't remember your dreams you can write something like "I chose not to remember my dreams". Have fun .

Your dream actions and mind-states tend to be a reflection of your real life actions and mind-states. If you practice acceptance of your emotional states and awareness of the senses during the day, this will spill over into your dreams. You can flow with the dreams during the night and wake up in a benevolent mood. I know what you mean by all this, though. Sleep has a way of resetting things. Just remember to start your meditations right away in the morning. Flow with the feelings - no matter what they are - once you've emerged from the dream state, and they will become more integrated into your peaceful mind. Then, when you feel them in your dreams, you'll be less likely to resist, and they won't disturb you. Some of my greatest "victories" have been waking up to realize I had accepted something disturbing in my dreams. (Usually large spiders lately, haha...)

Yes I obey gravity , but that's not all I can do as a human , I can screw up, be self destructive , invent, dream , and so forth - its what makes me special. Yea, as demi-gods we be , and can spin round toss up our kilt and exclaim "Feast yer eyes Tao ! ";)

The same thing keeps coming up, doesn't it?! What difference does it make whether your choices (whatever they happen to be) are or are not ultimately manifestations of Tao. In daily life you still have to make your own choices no matter how you wish to answer the metaphysical question of free will that's engendering all these ruminations. There are ways of life to choose from, and it's up to you what you do. Maybe the process of making a choice is just another manifestation of Tao (as I think it is) and maybe not, but it's still you deliberating and deciding what you do. There is no escape from being responsible for your own choices. And indeed as Stosh wrote: "we can be self destructive., come to crazy unsubstantiated conclusions, dream of things that don't exist , ignore our real situation , and operate as if we were in some other world. We heavily use ,and often rely on, abstractions which may or may not be true." This may be called in a non-metaphysical, subjective sense "not following Tao". The question whether we follow Tao in this non-metaphysical, subjective sense is completely distinct from the question whether we can refuse to follow Tao in the metaphysical sense. Mixing up those two meanings leads to endless confusion.

No , tao , or natural order is not in everything humans do. Number one, is that we can be self destructive., come to crazy unsubstantiated conclusions, dream of things that don't exist , ignore our real situation , and operate as if we were in some other world. We heavily use ,and often rely on, abstractions which may or may not be true. It allows us to dominate the earth collectively , but at the same time, brings a lot of headache individually.