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I realized at some point I should not be posting here as I'm not really sticking to a 2 year old thread's point No. Some can see Qi.... so it really begs the question why folks who practice Qigong can't see Qi I do agree that experiencing energy is similar to access to different wavelengths or frequencies... but I've not measured it in a way to give any real understanding in that way. I think there is a disconnect in some language usage... Qi, Shen, Ming, Liang ... are just chinese characters which represent various ways of saying, Energy, Spirit, Destiny, and Light. They are all the same but we can compartmentalize them in the manifest world as to what we have access to... but they are all one and the same: Original and Pure Energy of the Source. Internal cultivation, by whatever means and I mean to include your dream approach, is but a mirror of an external observation of the source light. We can use whatever word fits for our experience.

I can find not materials by Namkhai Norbus at my library or on YouTube related to Lucid Dreaming. The man appears to be another liberation focused Buddhist monk. I have, honestly, had quite enough of the religion of Buddhism. But thank you for the suggestion, if life puts the man in my path, I will be allowing, open and receptive. I have a hold on Arnold Mindell's, "Dreaming While Awake." Nothing at YouTube behind psychology. I find psychology to be just about as esoteric as the Buddhist practices. This book, as I recall, was very hard to read. But certainly interesting and worth reading. For those interested: http://www.amazon.com/Dreaming-While-Awake-Techniques-24-Hour/dp/1571743596 Maybe Lucid Dreaming can lead to enlightenment, or higher states of consciousness, or is a higher state of conscious. Honestly I don't care. For me this is simply something I can practice and derive benefit from. I don't need or want anything else. Just being able to Lucid Dream on a regular basis, to begin to use this time to have fun, invent, learn and practice, that is enough for me. I'll let anything else happen or not happen as it will, it is of no interest to me.

i'd like to know more about this too. I know a very advanced cultivator who literally stays lucid in his dream cycle, to the point that he sometimes cannot differentiate dreams and reality. He trained it by increasing his intensity in meditation throughout the day, and then staying lucid for the dream. He did astral projection as well, which he says can happen during the dream cycle too. Recalled many past lives too. The way he explains it is to hear the inner sound ringing, then ride that sound all the way until all the other things appear (tingling, lights, etc)... Then one eventually pops out when all of them become intensified.

Thank you. I actually own this book, and I was not impressed with it at all. I can't figure out why everyone else seems to think it is so good :/ But I appreciate you sharing this with me! Please note I also have both of Stephen LaBerg's books on lucid dreaming, and Robert Moss' book on Conscious Dreaming. I also have a hold on, "The Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep" at the library as well as a few other titles. Talk about esoteric! Oh and I am reading Waggoner's most recent book. In addition I have some videos from Robert Moss, some stuff from Carlos Casteneda (again esoteric), the audio from Hemi-Sync as well as the Monroe Institute, and all the stuff from Saltcube/lucidity. You could say I am rather informed on this subject. Not to mention that Dream Views has a few thousand techniques I can unearth and try. I am looking for that one video, that one audio, that one book which I have not heard of. Which maybe only a few people, if anyone has heard of. That upon listening, reading or watching, something clicks, like when I first read, "Lucid Dreaming for Beginners" by Mark McElroy. That book was what started everything for me, when the first cracks in all my beliefs structures began to appear. BTW those are cool pics in your avatar and signature!

But do not, at various times, we see revision ? These are only the oldest civilizations we know of so far. Its like we have certain evidence to reasonable postulate many things about ancient Egypt ... from what we know so far . But maybe 80% is 'undug' ( and much will remains so ). But speculations without reasonable evidence , although fun, are just that. Surely you and TM by now have read some of my other posts ? I aint no real straight laced materialist 'sheeple' ya know. I have rad views on theology , philosophy, magic, anthropology, demonology ..... But it is all tempered by some research ... and in some cases Uni study and living it in the field. Fuck man, I have even lived out with the oldest culture on Earth and have adoted their spirituality . If you want my view on what I believe is going on .... its that we are all in a dream that is being ' dreamed up ' by a giant snake lying asleep underground in an underground 'ocean' . Yep! That's what I believe . (You with me here Cuz ? )

I am looking, primarily, for video resources, followed by audio resources, followed by written resources, on the subject of becoming a proficient conscious or lucid dreamer. I would prefer to avoid all the esoteric mumbo-jumbo stuff. In fact, you can consider that with anything I post at these forums, I want nothing to do with ceremonies and esoteric processes. All spiritual practices are ultimately very simple, it is man in the physical who complicates them. Looking for materials or places where personal experiences in conscious or lucid dreaming are shared. Looking for clear, simple instructions in techniques. Conscious dreaming, lucid dreaming and dream yoga all apply. I want to start having fun with my dreams. I want to adventure and explore. But ultimately, I want to invent, learn and practice. This is my primary motivation. My intention is that the majority, if not all, of my dreams become conscious or lucid. No matter the consequences, if any. 90% or more conscious or lucid dreams, 10% or less dreams where I am not conscious or lucid, the reverse of my current experience. Conscious or lucid dreaming every night on a regular basis. No long intravels between days of lucid dreaming. No intravels at all, or very short ones. It has been (I started to write it is, which would perpetuate the undesired state) somewhat difficult for me to become conscious or lucid in my dreams. I would find a Dream Sign, something that shows up in many of my dreams, and use that to become conscious or lucid. Then the Dream Sign would stop showing up, or I would stop noticing it somehow. Maybe this Vipassana "retreat" I attended will have one advantage, that in learning to "tune in" to my body and what it feels like, what is going on with it. Because I would not be looking to changeable external ques to become conscious or lucid, instead observing my body and breathing, maybe that will help. Training now in using the pendant a friend gave me, holding it, saying, "Lucid Dream" 3 times, then tuning into my body at that moment. We'll see how that goes. I have done, and experienced, some terrible things a few years back when I was having more conscious or lucid dreaming experiences. But I am not as I was then, I am not a Christian anymore, and now I have this meditation training, including Vipassana. I have forgive myself for my actions, worked on any fear I have in me, and freed myself to be as monstrous as I need to be, no restraints, restrictions or rules. But I have sent out a warning to all Dream Characters, so that they will not show up in my dreams if they are not forgiving and patient. I figure once I get everything out of my system I will settle down and be better. I included this brief overview to give you an idea of how I am as a conscious or lucid dreamer and a little of my background. This should help you figure out the best resources to share. As always I appreciate your help. I am moving on from my studies in meditation to focusing on a handful of areas for these few months I still have a home. They are: conscious or lucid dreaming, writing and maybe some Blender modeling/UE4 mapping. I would like to use my dream time for meditation and to learn Unreal Engine 4 (UE4.) These are my intentions. Not goals, because, for me, a goal is something to be attached to, and an intention is not. I have these strong desires and intentions, but I must also flow, or keep my boat pointed downstream. Makes life easier. For those of you confused about this topic, wondering why, my answer is simple. When you become conscious or lucid in a dream, you know you are dreaming while you are in a dream. At that point there is, literally, nothing you can't do. Among other things you can learn anything, practice anything, fly, walk through walls, receive advice about your life and explore the depths of the ocean or the universe. The dream world is a world free of all the restrictions of the waking, physical world. Even time is irrelevant in the dream world. In 5 minutes of lucid dream time you can gain years of study and practice on any subject. People are generally unaware of this, that is why you may not have heard about it. If this subject interests you, look up conscious or lucid dreaming at your local library or bookstore. I started a thread at Dream Views covering one aspect of the dream world: http://www.dreamviews.com/general-dream-discussion/158993-what-if-dream-characters-feel-themselves-real-we-feel-about-ourselves.html Thank you for your help!

Rawn Clark (abardoncompanion.com) talked about a group of higher level Hermetic magicians he'd get together with on an astral dream plane. As I recall he said they'd talk by phone afterwards to double check on details of discussion. He made it seem like its pretty high up there as far as dream work goes.

http://www.amazon.com/Dream-Telepathy-Experiments-Extrasensory-Consciousness/dp/1571743219

Also... avoid blue light 2 hours before sleep. LED screens give off blue light - so your laptop, phones, etc should be kept away, or at least, placed with a blue-light filter. (They have apps! Like this for android or iphone or windows) I like doing the martial arts exercise where you place your palms on your ears, then drum the back of your head (celestial drums), as well as massaging the occipital condyles in a rotational manner (the two bumps at the back of your head). I don't know if it helps you, but it gives me a more restful sleep... Then as I practice maintaining lucidity in sleep, I also tended to notice that we have to look at the 'mental screen' so that the dream images surface. Or perhaps you can pay attention to the 'inner sound' that is this very high pitched ring. Then you might see some kind of kaleidoscopic, dream-like, spectral images... or nonsensical/illogical scenes that flash by... Usually at this moment, I find that if you wobble the attention, such that it is unable to focus on anything, you fall unconscious and fall asleep in the hypnagogic phase. I used this trick to go into torpor since I was a child... It's kind of like when you are so bored, and you have nothing to do and then you have no brightness in the mind and just ... poof, you're unconscious. But if you focus your attention, then you might stay lucid. However the problem is that we tend to tense our muscles too much and not ride along with the process, so we keep intervening with it and then we never fall asleep. I don't really know much other than my own personal experience, so ... yup.

I'm more on the Tibetan side of things so I won't post anymore medical advise, only that much: there are some good pills within the tibetan traditional medicin as well - like Vimala, it helps alot with sleep disorder(that is a disorder of wind or prana, they way that is explained is basically the same like in chinese medicin - just different words) and also makes dreams more vivid to do dream-yoga (also it takes some time to really work) and I don't know if there are any good tibetan doctors in europe. So basically stick with the chinese system or what andrei mentioned: Ashwangandha is a great herb! anyway I can tell you some other tricks to have better sleep: Before going to bed for at least 1/2hour no sreens(computer,smart phone, TV etc.), no light (to read etc.), just be in the dark in silence and maybe do some mantra or breathing exercises - I like to do 20min - 30 min of lying on my back and just being there - letting it be as it is. or other times I just sit on my bed and recite some mantras and do visualization ina relaxed way (also in the dark of course!) till I get tired and then I go to sleep then I usually sleep very well - sometimes I wake up in the night but usually I sleep like a stone, waking up feeling very relaxed (takes some time to move my body) and well rested but thats a habit you have to form also, it will take time till your mental chatter can subside when its time to sleep - and being in the dark helps your brain to understand its time to go to sleep also important is rythm - so wake up no matter what at the same time and go to bed no matter what at the same time every day - 7 days a week (sounds strange but it really helped me to overcome my light sleep, I never had serious insomnia, I would maybe sometimes not sleep for 2-3 nights but never longer times then that) lets say you wake up at 6am - then do this every day, also if you couldn't sleep just take a nap later (20 min is great nap time) so my little advice: routine and darkness for 1/2h before sleeping I hope it helps you as well as it helped me

Below is an interview with Nikola Tesla that I found to be quite spiritual and interesting. At first I thought it must be fake in order to get internet views, but after reading, I don't believe such words are fake. It can also be found here: http://worldtruth.tv/the-nikola-tesla-interview-hidden-for-116-years/ Once, in 1899, Nikola Tesla had an interview with a certain journalist John Smith, when Tesla said “Everything is the Light“. In one of its rays is the fate of nations, each nation has its own ray in that great light source, which we see as the Sun. In this interview this greatest inventor and seer of modern time unravels a new vision of humanity which we, the light warriors of the first and the last hour have created a century later. A must read for every Ascended Master from the PAT.Part of this interview is dedicated to Tesla’s critics on Einstein’s theory of relativity that discards the ether as energy. I have proved in the new Theory of the Universal Law why Einstein’s theory of relativity is entirely wrong and why there is no vacuum (void), and that everything is energy. Thus I confirm Tesla’s ideas as expressed in this interview. George, May 7, 2015 Journalist: Mr. Tesla, you have gained the glory of the man who got involved in the cosmic processes. Who are you, Mr. Tesla? Tesla: It is a right question, Mr. Smith, and I will try to give you the right answer to it. Journalist: Some say you’re from the country of Croatia, from the area called Lika, where together with the people are growing trees, rocks and starry sky. They say that your home village is named after the mountain flowers, and that the house, where you were born, is next to the forest and the church. Tesla: Really, all it true. I’m proud of my Serbian origin and my Croatian homeland. Journalist: Futurists say that the Twenty-and Twenty First Century was born in head of Nikola Tesla. They celebrate conversely magnetic field and sing hymns to Inductions engine. Their creator was called the hunter who caught the light in his net from the depths of the earth, and the warrior who captured fire from heaven. Father of alternating current will make the Physics and Chemistry dominate half the world. Industry will proclaim him as their supreme saint, a banker for the largest benefactors. In the laboratory of Nikola Tesla for the first time is broken atom. There is created a weapon that causes the earthquake vibrations. There are discovered black cosmic rays. Five races will pray to him in the Temple of the future, because they had taught a great secret that Empedocles elements can be watered with the life forces from the ethers. Tesla: Yes, these are some of my most important discoveries. I’m a defeated man. I have not accomplished the greatest thing I could. Journalist: What is it, Mr. Tesla? Tesla: I wanted to illuminate the whole earth. There is enough electricity to become a second sun. Light would appear around the equator, as a ring around Saturn. Mankind is not ready for the great and good. In Colorado Springs I soaked the earth by electricity. Also we can water the other energies, such as positive mental energy. They are in the music of Bach or Mozart, or in the verses of great poets. In the Earth’s interior, there are energy of Joy, Peace and Love. Their expressions are a flower that grows from the Earth, the food we get out of her and everything that makes man’s homeland. I’ve spent years looking for the way that this energy could influence people. The beauty and the scent of roses can be used as a medicine and the sun rays as a food. Life has an infinite number of forms, and the duty of scientists is to find them in every form of matter. Three things are essential in this. All that I do is a search for them. I know I will not find them, but I will not give up on them. Journalist: What are these things? Tesla: One issue is food. What a stellar or terrestrial energy to feed the hungry on Earth? With what wine watered all thirsty, so that they can cheer in their heart and understand that they are Gods? Another thing is to destroy the power of evil and suffering in which man’s life passes! They sometimes occur as an epidemic in the depths of space. In this century, the disease had spread from Earth in the Universe. The third thing is: Is there an excess Light in the Universe? I discovered a star that by all the astronomical and mathematical laws could disappear, and that nothing seems to be modified. This star is in this galaxy. Its light can occur in such density that fits into a sphere smaller than an apple, a heavier than our Solar System. Religions and philosophies teach that man can become the Christ, Buddha and Zoroaster. What I’m trying to prove is wilder, and almost unattainable. This is what to do in the Universe so every being is born as Christ, Buddha or Zoroaster. I know that gravity is prone to everything you need to fly and my intention is not to make flying devices (aircraft or missiles), but teach individual to regain consciousness on his own wings … Further; I am trying to awake the energy contained in the air. There are the main sources of energy. What is considered as empty space is just a manifestation of matter that is not awakened. No empty space on this planet, nor in the Universe.. In black holes, what astronomers talk about, are the most powerful sources of energy and life. Journalist: On the window of your room in hotel “Valdorf-Astoria”, on the thirty-third floor, every morning, the birds arrive. Tesla: A man must be sentimental towards the birds. This is because of their wings. Human had them once, the real and visible! Journalist: You have not stopped flying since those distant days in Smiljan! Tesla: I wanted to fly from the roof and I fell: Children’s calculations could be wrong. Remember, the youth wings have everything in life! Journalist: Have you ever married? It is not known that you have affection for love or for a woman. Photos from the youth show you were handsome man. Tesla: Yes. I did not. There are two views: a lot affection or not at all. The center serves to rejuvenate human race. Women for certain people nurtures and strengthen its vitality and spirit. Being single does the same to other people. I chose that second path. Journalist: Your admirers are complaining that you attacking relativity. The strange is your assertion that the matter has no energy. Everything is imbued with energy, where it is? Tesla: First was energy, then matter. Journalist: Mr. Tesla, it’s like when you said that you were born by your father, and not on you. Tesla: Exactly! What about the birth of the Universe? Matter is created from the original and eternal energy that we know as Light .It shone, and there have been appear star, the planets, man, and everything on the Earth and in the Universe. Matter is an expression of infinite forms of Light, because energy is older than it. There are four laws of Creation. The first is that the source of all the baffling, dark plot that the mind cannot conceive, or mathematics measure. In that plot fit the whole Universe. The second law is spreading a darkness, which is the true nature of Light, from the inexplicable and it’s transformed into the Light. The third law is the necessity of the Light to become a matter of Light. The fourth law is: no beginning and no end; three previous laws always take place and the Creation is eternal. Journalist: In the hostility to the theory of relativity you go so far, that you hold lectures against its Creator at your birthday parties.. Tesla: Remember, it is not curved space, but the human mind which cannot comprehend infinity and eternity! If relativity has been clearly understood by its Creator, he would gain immortality, even yet physically, if he is pleased. I am part of a light, and it is the music. The Light fills my six senses: I see it, hear, feel, smell, touch and think. Thinking of it means my sixth sense. Particles of Light are written note. O bolt of lightning can be an entire sonata. A thousand balls of lightning is a concert.. For this concert I have created a Ball Lightning, which can be heard on the icy peaks of the Himalayas. About Pythagoras and mathematics a scientist may not and must not infringe of these two. Numbers and equations are signs that mark the music of the spheres. If Einstein had heard these sounds, he would not create theories of relativity. These sounds are the messages to the mind that life has meaning, that the Universe exists in perfect harmony, and its beauty is the cause and effect of Creation. This music is the eternal cycle of stellar heavens. The smallest star has completed composition and also, part of the celestial symphony. The man’s heartbeats are part of the symphony on the Earth. Newton learned that the secret is in geometric arrangement and motion of celestial bodies. He recognized that the supreme law of harmony exists in the Universe. The curved space is chaos, chaos is not music. Einstein is the messenger of the time of sound and fury. Journalist: Mr. Tesla, do you hear that music? Tesla: I hear it all the time. My spiritual ear is as big as the sky we see above us. My natural ear I increased by the radar. According to the Theory of Relativity, two parallel lines will meet in infinity. By that Einstein’s curved will straighten. Once created, the sound lasts forever. For a man it can vanish, but continues to exist in the silence that is man’s greatest power. No, I have nothing against Mr. Einstein. He is a kind person and has done many good things, some of which will become part of the music. I will write to him and try to explain that the ether exists, and that its particles are what keep the Universe in harmony, and the life in eternity. Journalist: Tell me, please, under what conditions Angel adopt on the Earth? Tesla: I have ten of them. Keep good records vigilant. Journalist: I will document all your words, Dear Mr. Tesla. Tesla: The first requirement is a high awareness of its mission and work to be done. It must, if only dimly, exist in the early days. Let us not be falsely modest; Oak knows that it is oak tree, a bush beside him being a bush. When I was twelve, I have been sure I will get to Niagara Falls. For most of my discoveries I knew in my childhood that I will achieve them, although not entirely apparent … The second condition to adapt is determination. All that I might, I finished. Journalist: What is the third condition of adjustment, Mr. Tesla? Tesla: Guidance for all the vital and spiritual energies in labor. Therefore purification of the many effects and needs that man has. I therefore have not lost anything, but just gained. So I enjoyed every day and night. Write down: Nikola Tesla was a happy man… The fourth requirement is to adjust the physical assembly with a work. Journalist: What do you mean, Mr. Tesla? Tesla: First, the maintenance of the assembly. Man’s body is a perfect machine. I know my circuit and what’s good for him. Food what nearly all people eat, to me it is harmful and dangerous. Sometimes I visualize that chefs in the world are all in conspiracy against me … Touch my hand. Journalist: It was cold. Tesla: Yes. Bloodstream can be controlled, and many processes in and around us. Why are you frightened young man? Journalist: It’s a story that Mark Twain wrote a mysterious stranger, that wonderful book of Satan, inspired by you. Tesla: The word “Lucifer” is more charming. Mr. Twain likes to joke. As a child I was healed once by reading his books. When we met here and told him about, he was so touched that he cried. We became friends and he often came to my lab. Once he requested to show him a machine that by vibration provokes a feeling of bliss. It was one of those inventions for entertainment, what I sometimes like to do. I warned Mr. Twain as not to remain under these vibrations. He did not listen and stayed longer. It ended by being, like a rocket, holding pants, darted into a certain room. It was a diabolically funny, but I kept the seriousness. But, to adjust the physical circuit, in addition to food, dream is very important . From a long and exhausting work, which required superhuman effort, after one hour of sleep I’d be fully recovered. I gained the ability to manage sleep, to fell asleep and wake up in the time which I have designated. If I do something what I do not understand, I force myself to think about it in my dream, and thus find a solution. Tesla: The fifth condition of adjustment is memory. Perhaps in the most people, the brain is keeper of knowledge about the world and the knowledge gained through the life. My brain is engaged in more important things than remembering, it is picking what is required at a given moment. This is all around us. It should only be consumed. Everything that we once saw, hear, read and learn, accompanies us in the form of light particles. To me, these particles are obedient and faithful. Goethe’s Faust, my favorite book, I learned by heart in German as a student, and now it can all recite. I held my inventions for years ‘in my head “, and only then I realized them. Journalist: You often mentioned the power of visualization. Tesla: I might have to thank to visualization for all that I invented. The events of my life and my inventions are real in front of my eyes, visible as each occurrence or the item. In my youth I was frightened of not knowing what it is, but later, I learned to use this power as an exceptional talent and gift. I nurtured it, and jealously guarded. I also made corrections by visualization on most of my inventions, and finish them that way, by visualization I mentally solve complex mathematical equations. For that gift I have, I will receive rank High Lama in Tibet. My eyesight and hearing are perfect and, dare to say, stronger than other people. I hear the thunder of a hundred fifty miles away, and I see colors in the sky that others cannot see. This enlargement of vision and hearing, I had as a child. Later I consciously developed. Journalist: In youth you have several times been seriously ill. Is it a disease and a requirement to adapt? Tesla: Yes. It is often the result of a lack of exhaustion or vital force, but often the purification of mind and body from the toxins that have accumulated. It is necessary that a man suffers from time to time. The source of most disease is in the spirit. Therefore the spirit and can cure most diseases. As a student I got sick of cholera which raged in the region of Lika. I was cured because my father finally allowed me to study technology, which was my life. Illusion for me was not a disease, but the mind’s ability to penetrate beyond the three dimensions of the earth. I had them all my life, and I have received them as all other phenomena around us. Once, in childhood, I was walking along the river with Uncle and said: “From the water will appear the trout, I’ll throw a stone and it is cut.” That’s what happened. Frightened and amazed, his uncle cried: “Bade retro Satan’s!” He was an educated and he spoke in Latin … I was in Paris when I saw my mother’s death. In the sky, full of light and music floated are wonderful creatures. One of them had a mother’s character, who was looking at me with infinite love. As the vision disappeared, I knew that my mother died. Journalist: What is the seventh adjustment, Mr. Tesla? Tesla: The knowledge of how the mental and vital energy transform into what we want, and achieve control over all feelings. Hindus call it Kundalini Yoga. This knowledge can be learned, for what they need many years or is acquired by birth. The most of them I acquired by birth. They are in the closest connection with a sexual energy that is after the most widespread in the Universe. The woman is the biggest thief of that energy, and thus the spiritual power. I’ve always knew that and was alerted. Of myself I created what I wanted: a thoughtful and spiritual machine. Journalist: A ninth adjustment, Mr. Tesla? Tesla: Do everything that any day, any moment, if possible, not to forget who we are and why we are on Earth. Extraordinary people who are struggling with illness, privation, or the society which hurts them with its stupidity, misunderstanding, persecution and other problems which the country is full of a swamps with insects, leaves behind unclaimed until the end of the work. There are many fallen angels on Earth. Journalist: What is the tenth adaptation? Tesla: It is most important. Write that Mr. Tesla played. He played the whole of his life and enjoyed it. Journalist: Mr. Tesla! Whether it relates to your findings and your work? Is this a game? Tesla: Yes, dear boy. I have so loved to play with electricity! I always cringe when I hear about the one also the Greek who stole fire. A terrible story about studding, and eagles peck at his liver. Did Zeus did not have enough lightning and thunder, and was damaged for one fervor? There is some misunderstanding… Lightning are the most beautiful toys that can be found. Do not forget that in your text stand out: Nikola Tesla was the first man who discovered lightning. Journalist: Mr. Tesla, you’re just talking about angels and their adaptation to the Earth. Tesla: Am I? This is the same. You could write this: he dared to take upon himself the prerogatives of Indri, Zeus and Peron. Imagine one of these gods in a black evening suit, with the bowler hat and wearing white cotton gloves prepares lightning, fires and earthquakes to the New York City elite! Journalist: Readers love the humor of our paper. But you confuse me stating that your findings, which have immense benefits for the people, representing the game. Many will frown on it. Tesla: Dear Mr. Smith, the trouble is that people are too serious. If they were not, they would be happier and much longer would have lived. Chinese proverb says that the seriousness reduces life. Visiting the inn Tai Pe guessed that he visits the Imperial Palace. But that the newspaper readers would not have frowned, let’s get back to things which they consider important. Journalist: They would love to hear what your philosophy is. Tesla: Life is a rhythm that must be comprehended. I feel the rhythm and direct on it and pamper in it. It was very grateful and gave me the knowledge I have. Everything that lives is related to a deep and wonderful relationship: man and the stars, amoebas’ and the sun, the heart and the circulation of an infinite number of worlds. These ties are unbreakable, but they can be tame and to propitiate and begin to create new and different relationships in the world, and that does not violate the old. Knowledge comes from space; our vision is its most perfect set. We have two eyes: the earthly and spiritual. It is recommended that it become one eye. Universe is alive in all its manifestations, like a thinking animal. Stone is a thinking and sentient being, such as plant, beast and a man. A star that shines asked to look at, and if we are not a sizeable self-absorbed we would understand its language and message. His breathing, his eyes and ears of the man must comply with breathing, eyes and ears of the Universe. Journalist: As you say this, it seems to me like I hear Buddhist texts, words or Taoist Parazulzusa. Tesla: That’s right! This means that there is general knowledge and truth that man has always possessed. In my feeling and experience, the Universe has only one substance and one supreme energy with an infinite number of manifestations of life. The best thing is that the discovery of a secret nature, reveals the other. One cannot hide, there are around us, but we are blind and deaf to them. If we emotionally tie ourselves to them, they come to us themselves. There are a lot of apples, but one Newton. He asked for just one apple that fell in front of him. Journalist: A question that might be set at the beginning of this conversation. What was Electricity for you, Dear Mr. Tesla? Tesla: Everything is Electricity. First was the light, endless source from which points out material and distribute it in all forms that represent the Universe and the Earth with all its aspects of life. Black is the true face of Light, only we do not see this. It is remarkable grace to man and other creatures. One of its particles possesses light, thermal, nuclear, radiation, chemical, mechanical and an unidentified energy. It has the power to run the Earth with its orbit. It is true Archimedean lever. Journalist: Mr. Tesla, you’re too biased towards electricity. Tesla: Electricity I am. Or, if you wish, I am the electricity in the human form. You are Electricity; too Mr. Smith, but you do not realize it. Journalist: Is it thus your ability to allow fails of electricity of one million volts trough your body? Tesla: Imagine a gardener who is attacked by herbs. This would indeed be crazy. Man’s body and brain are made from a large amount energy; in me there is the majority of electricity. The energy that is different in everyone is what makes the human “I” or “soul”. For other creatures to their essence, “soul” of the plant is the “soul” of minerals and animals. Brain function and death is manifested in light. My eyes in youth were black, now blue, and as time goes on and strain the brain gets stronger, they are closer to white. White is the color of heaven. Through my window one morning, landed a white dove, which I fed. She wanted to bring me a word that she was dying. From her eyes the light jets were coming out. Never in the eyes of any creature had I not seen so much light, as in that pigeon. Journalist: Personnel in your lab speak about flashes of light, flames and lightning that occur if you are angry or into kind of risk. Tesla: It is the psychic discharge or a warning to be alert. The light was always on my side. Do you know how I discovered the rotating magnetic field and induction motor, which made me became famous when I was twenty-six? One summer evening in Budapest, I watched with my friend Sigetijem sunset. Thousands of fire was turning around in thousands of flaming colors. I remembered Faust and recited his verses and then, as in a fog, I saw spinning magnetic field, and induction motor. I saw them in the sun! Journalist: Hotel service telling that at the time of lightning you isolate into the room and talk to yourselves. Tesla: I talk with lightning and thunder. Journalist: With them? What language, Mr.Tesla? Tesla: Mostly my native language. It has the words and sounds, especially in poetry, what is suitable for it. Journalist: Readers of our magazine would be very grateful if you would interpret that. Tesla: The sound does not exist only in the thunder and lightning, but, in transformation into the brightness and color. A color can be heard. Language is of the words, which means that it is from the sounds and colors. Every thunder and lightning are different and have their names. I call some of them by the names of those who were close in my life, or by those whom I admire. In the sky brightness and thunder live my mother, sister, brother Daniel, a poet Jovan Jovanovic Zmaj and other persons of Serbian history. Names such AsIsaiah, Ezekiel, Leonardo, Beethoven, Goya, Faraday, Pushkin and all burning fires mark shoals and tangles of lightning and thunder, which does not stop all night bringing to the Earth precious rain and burning trees or villages. There is lightning and thunder, and they are the brightest and most powerful, that will not vanish. They are coming back and I recognize them among the thousands. Journalist: For you, science or poetry is the same? Tesla: These are the two eyes of one person. William Blake was taught that the Universe was born from the imagination, that it maintains and it will exist as long as there is a last man on the Earth. With it was a wheel to which astronomers can collect the stars of all galaxies. It is the creative energy identical to the light energy. Journalist: Imagination is more real to you than life itself? Tesla: It gives birth to the life. I have fed by my taught; I’ve learned to control emotions, dreams and visions. I have always cherished, as I nurtured my enthusiasm. All my long life I spent in ecstasy. That was the source of my happiness. It helped me during all these years to bear with work, which was enough for the five lives. The best is to work at night, because the stellar light, and close bond. Journalist: You said that I am, like every being, the Light. This flatter me, but I confess, I do not quite understand. Tesla: Why would you need to understand, Mr. Smith? Suffice it to believe it. Everything is light. In one its ray is the fate of nations, each nation has its own ray in what great light source we see as the sun. And remember: no one who was there did not die. They transformed into the light, and as such exist still. The secret lies in the fact that the light particles restore their original state. Journalist: This is the resurrection! Tesla: I prefer to call it: return to a previous energy. Christ and several others knew the secret. I am searching how to preserve human energy. It is forms of Light, sometimes straight like heavenly light. I have not looked for it for my own sake, but for the good of all. I believe that my discoveries make people’s lives easier and more bearable, and channel them to spirituality and morality. Journalist: Do you think that time can be abolished? Tesla: Not quite, because the first feature of the energy is that it transforms. It is in perpetual transformation, as clouds of Taoists. But it is possible to leverage the fact that a man preserves consciousness after the earthly life. In every corner of the universe exist energy of life; one of them is immortality, whose origin is outside of man, waiting for him. The universe is spiritual; we are only half that way. The Universe is more moral than us, because we do not know his nature and how to harmonize our lives with it. I am not scientist, science is perhaps the most convenient way to find the answer to the question that always haunt me, and which my days and nights turned into fire. Journalist: What’s the matter? Tesla: How are your eyes brightened!… What I wanted to know is: what happens to a falling star as the sun goes out? Stars fall like dust or seed in this or in other worlds, and the sun be scattered in our minds, in the lives of many beings, what will be reborn as a new light, or cosmic wind scattered in infinity. I understand that this is necessary included in the structure of the Universe. The thing is, though, is that one of these stars and one of these suns, even the smallest, preserves. Journalist: But, Mr. Tesla, you realize that this is necessary and is included in the constitution of the world! Tesla: When a man becomes concuss; that his highest goal must be to run for a shooting star, and tries to capture it; shall understand that his life was given to him because of this and will be saved. Stars will eventually be capable to catch! Journalist: And what will happen then? Tesla: The creator will laugh and say: ”It fall only that you chase her and grab her.” Journalist: Isn’t all of this contrary to the cosmic pain, which so often you mention in your writings? And what is it cosmic pain? Tesla: No, because we are on Earth … It is an illness whose existence the vast majority of people are not aware of. Hence, many other illnesses, suffering, evil, misery, wars and everything else what makes human life an absurd and horrible condition. This disease cannot be completely cured, but awareness shall make it less complicated and hazardous. Whenever one of my close and dear people were hurt, I felt physical pain. This is because our bodies are made as of similar material, and our soul related with unbreakable strands. Incomprehensible sadness that overwhelmed us at times means that somewhere, on the other side on this planet, a child or generous man died. The entire Universe is in certain periods sick of itself, and of us. Disappearance of a star and the appearance of comets affect us more than we can imagine. Relationships among the creatures on the Earth are even stronger, because of our feelings and thoughts the flower will scent even more beautiful or will fall in silence. These truths we must learn in order to be healed. Remedy is in our hearts and evenly, in the heart of the animals that we call the Universe.

Here’s an interpretation I’ve previously read, written by one of my favourite theorists...... THE HAPPY FISH—OR: JOY WITHOUT JOY A short but rather well-known story in the Zhuangzi contains a discussion about the happiness of fish. While Zhuangzi and his philosopher friend and opponent Huizi are out on a leisurely stroll, a dispute arises between them: Zhuangzi and Huizi were rambling around [you] at the bridge across the Hao river. Zhuangzi said: "Out come the minnows and drift along [you], so free and easy. That's the happiness of fish!" Huizi said: "You are not a fish. Whence do you know about the happiness of fish?" Zhuangzi replied: "You are not me. Whence do you know that I don't know about the happiness of fish?" Huizi answered: "I am not you, so I surely don't know about you. You are surely not a fish, and this proves completely that you don't know about the happiness of fish." Zhuangzi said: "Let's go back to where we started. When you said 'Whence do -you know about the happiness of fish' you asked me the question already knowing that I knew. I knew it from up above the Hao.” Just like many other allegories in the Zhuangzi, this story includes several puns (which unfortunately do not receive appropriate recognition in many English translations). The crucial pun occurs in the first line of the story, and understanding it is necessary for understanding the debate that unfolds in the following sentences. Zhuangzi's and Huizi's stroll is described as "rambling around," which is you in Chinese (not the same character as you meaning "presence"!). This word is also used in the title of the first chapter of the Zhuangzi: "Going Rambling without a Destination" (xiao yao you) and is an important term for the "lifestyle" of the Daoist sage. When Zhuangzi starts talking about the fish in the river Hao, he uses the very same word for their "drifting along." Both the men's wandering and the swimming of the fish is thus described with a Daoist terminus technicus for the complete absorption in one's natural environment or in one's natural place and position. If one "rambles" free and easy, one has no friction whatsoever with one's surroundings and so is part of a seamless, easygoing process. The notion of you expresses how it feels to be part of a perfect scenario—it is the perfect Daoist "feeling," so to speak. The second pun is based upon the ambiguity of Huizi's question, which initiates the philosophical dispute: "Whence do you know about the happiness of fish?" This can be—as it was obviously intended by Huizi—a rhetorical question meaning simply, "How should it ever be possible for you to know about the happiness of fish?" Huizi seems not to be merely asking Zhuangzi how he can have such knowledge, but denying that he can have it at all. Huizi is addressing an epistemological issue: One should not claim to have knowledge to which one has no access. Zhuangzi, at first, takes Huizi's philosophical attack seriously and tries to defeat Huizi by his own means—but this attempt is not successful. His argument that Huizi cannot claim any knowledge about him—not even his claim about the fish—is defeated by Huizi's reprisal that this argument—the invalidity of knowledge claims about realms one is somehow separate from—proves Huizi, and not Zhuangzi, to be correct. It is epistemologically problematic to claim such knowledge, and thus Zhuangzi's claim to know the happiness of the fish may be some "poetic" expression of one's feelings strolling along the river, but it cannot be taken seriously as a philosophical statement. Zhuangzi, having lost the epistemological dispute, twists the whole philosophical direction of the discussion in the last sentence of the dialogue. He plays with the ambiguity of Huizi's initial question. Both in English and Chinese the question "Whence do you know about (an zhi) the happiness of fish?" can also mean "From where do you know about the happiness of fish?" It can be a question like "From where did you see that fish hiding behind the stone?" If the question is understood in this way, it is not a rhetorical question, but a real one. Literally, Huizi had indeed asked this question, and by asking this question—although not intentionally but linguistically—acknowledged that Zhuangzi knew about the happiness of fish whereas he himself did not. Thus Zhuangzi now answers Huizi's question in a literal way: "From where did you see the happiness of the fish?—"Oh, I just see it from here, from my perspective while strolling along and above the Hao river." And this has again a double meaning: It means, first of all, "I simply see the fish from here where I am" but it also means: "I see that the fish are happy, because while I am rambling here (you) and they are drifting there (you), we are actually sharing the same 'lifestyle.' We are both youing! That's how I know what they feel." This pun with the term you explains whence Zhuangzi knows about the happiness of fish. With his final sentence he answers Huizi in a Daoist way. He fails to convincingly prove his knowledge claim using Huizi's epistemology, but with the final sentence he alludes to the notion of you—and thus supports his claim in a particular Daoist manner. Guo Xiang's commentary to the fishnet allegory explains this Daoist "epistemology": Well, what things are born into and what they rejoice in—heaven and earth cannot change this position, and Yin and Yang cannot take back this livelihood. Therefore it cannot be called strange if one can know what beings born into the water are happy with from [being familiar with] what beings born on land rejoice in. With Guo Xiang's help, Zhuangzi's point is elucidated: Zhuangzi is a human being and his way to you is to ramble around carefree on the land. Fish have a different position and "livelihood," they have a different place in the scenario of Dao, they have a different nature, and accordingly, they have a different way to you—they you by drifting along in water. Each being has its own natural place in its environment, and Zhuangzi can only feel like fish in the water while on land. Both species have their respective "elements." When Zhuangzi claimed to know about the happiness of fish, he did not claim to be able to feel the exact same feeling. He was just saying: I feel perfect by rambling around, and the fish feel perfect by drifting around. Both are you—but two kinds of you, a fish-you, and a human-you. There are different kinds of "happiness," a fish-happiness, and a man-happiness, and these are not exchangeable! The fish will never be able to ramble on the land and feel perfectly happy there, and it would be a miracle for a man to drift around in the water just as happily as fish. Both kinds of happiness are entirely different and separate, but they are both equally in perfect accord with the Dao. Comparing this story with the butterfly dream allegory one might say: Just as the butterfly call be perfectly content and in its element during the time of the dream, and as Zhuang Zhou can be perfectly content and in his element while being awake, so also the fish in the water and the human being on land can be perfectly content and in their elements. They do not know exactly how the other feels, but they can know that each of them can rejoice in what they are. Because one can be self-content in a dream, one can know that one can be self-content when awake; and because a man can be self-content on land, one can know that fish can be self-content in water. The happiness of the fish is the happiness of complete absorption in one's natural environment or in one's natural place and position. This happiness is attainable for fish, humans, and butterflies. But this happiness is not just some kind of emotional "joy." The perfect happiness of the fish or man is that they lose themselves in their respective element. And if they lose themselves, they will also be able to lose their joy. The perfect Daoist happiness is joy without joy. It is not tied to any particular emotional sensation and is not felt in a specific way. The Zhuangzi also says: "Utmost happiness is without happiness." A Daoist sage does not only forget words, ideas, and him/herself, he/she also forgets any particular kind of happiness. The perfect emotional quality is a feeling one no longer feels. A Daoist sage takes on the "zero-perspective" of joy—he/she will know about the happiness of men and fish while enjoying the "utmost happiness without happiness" him/herself. (from Daoism Explained: From the Dream of the Butterfly to the Fishnet Allegory, by Hans-Georg Moeller)

To derive the concept of a dream you had first to know reality. In a dream, when you fall down a flight of stairs you don't suffer even a single bruise. Try that when you are not dreaming and you will like as not break a limb.

If you would be so kind Marblehead my friend, perhaps you could share with me examples of stuff you know are confident in your proof of knowing. I lack even a mechanism to know if my entire life experience stream has all been a dream, and all my collected experience data points have not been more than perceptions filtered through human sensory limitations and bias. As beings who perceive in 3 dimensions and an infinitely thin slice of a 4th, we tend to get pretty confident about having a handle on things, despite perhaps complete transparency of sensory equipment to detect the higher level dimensions required to give rise to the tiny fraction we directly see/touch/taste/smell in this infinitely thin slice of the 4th we call Now. Unlimited Love, -Bud

Alan watts also used lsd quite a bit in his earlier years I believe. Even did it with his daughter. Terence mckenna is also a very insightful person who dabbled in psychoactive substances. I dont know if hehe'd call him self realized.. but his perspectives about life and the planet are very interesting and helpful. Osho even used nitrous oxide I have read haha. He was in the dental field when he was younger so I could see where he got introduced to it. In the past 6 months I got 8 teeth removed and was under nitrous twice. The other time I wss knocked out.But the first time the experience felt so familiar. Like it had happened millions of times before in my dream. Then the second time it wss with a nother doctor and it felt a little less mystical and was a bit more aware. But both doctors said the exact same thing as they dod the procedure. Theyd say "open turn slightly. Litttle pinch " this made it seem like terrible dejavu. Even the girl assisting the second doctor acted the EXACTA same way as the first girl who helped the first doctor. She would ask how im doing. Say a joke id look up rolling my eyes to the ceiling almost to laugh and shed laugh and move back and forth in a weird motion. It just made me very aware of that moment. And everything seemed so dreamlike. Probably more intense then any other psycho active substance ive used.

Hello emeiwudang, welcome to the forum. I am a 45 years old Swiss counsellor and alternative therapist with a vivid interest in Daoism and martial arts my teenage years. My active interest particularly in Taiji is of a more recent date. Not least a lucid dream experience in an astral/etheric dimension sparked it. I also found much of interest in the books by Jwing Ming Yang. I now practice Yang style Taiji according to Montaigue, currently also just using videos and books, but probably soon supported by private live lessons on Skype. I look forward to further exchange. Michael

I don't know the ancient greek definition of wisdom, or that of the kabbalists, so maybe what I have to say makes no sense in this discussion on the other hand indo -tibetan buddhism is traveling to the west, and many translators have deceided to translate certain sanskrit and tibetan terms as "wisdom" or "wisdom" plus some other word the actual meaning of for example prajna (tib. whiley: she rab) is not literally discriminating wisdom (that captures what prajna means) but the literal tibetan translation would be "supreme cognition" she rab - "she" is cognition or consciousness and "rab" means something like supreme, best etc. the meaning of it is the supreme cognition is to discriminate between what is a correct understanding of the nature of phenomena and what is an incorrect understanding of phenomena the correct understanding of phenomena would be to cognize them as empty/insubstantial/unborn etc. while conventionally arising as illusion like or dream like phenomena through the force of dependent origination the incorrect understanding of phenomena would be to cognize phenomena as substantial/truly established things "outside" that are other then me - a me that is also truly established somewhere "inside" thats Prajna - Discriminating Wisdom in a nutshell (of course countless books are written on what it is, and what it not is - and my understanding is only limited but maybe it adds to the discussion) now there is also Jnana or tib. whiley: Ye she for that there is the commen translation "primordial wisdom" which I think is horrible (like dinosaurus rex wisdom), then there is "timeless awareness" (Richard Barron) which I like more and then there is Keith Dowmans "Nowness Awareness" which from the Dzogchen point of view makes the most sense "Ye" points to the beginninless beginning (which is the timeless Now) and "she" is again cognition or consciousness so its the cognition or consciousness that allways is the case, since the beginning of beginninless samsara upto now (thats enough - not to go too deep down the dzogchen jungle) much more to say about Jnana but other people can do that if they like, I don't like to do that so my question is do you think Wisdom in the greek sense is similar or even the same like Prajna or Jnana?`

the discussion goes into a very beautiful direction! we should come back to the question if the negation of the true existence of a phenomena implies that there is then something left: the non existence of that phenomena remember my little ironic statement about discussing the absence of apples on a table? Ok I think it's time for some heavy hitters, so I will post three very important verses from the Bodhisattvacharyavatara and give a short outline of what they mean based on Ju Miphams commentary (shedrel ketaka) of the 9th Chapter from the Bodhicharyavatara the verses (translated by padmakara - so poetic but not always true to the tibetan, the meaning is the same though so no problem) Verse 32 (here aptitude in the first line and habit in the second line mean the same thing in tibetan: mental habit or karmic imprint; whylie: bag chags) By training in this aptitude for emptiness, the habit to perceive real things will be relinquished. By training in the thought "There isn't anything," This view itself will also be abandoned. That means that there is a ever deepening insight into the suchness of reality based on ones understanding of emptiness, also it means that not everybody can arrive at the correct and final view of the great madhyamika - the freedom of all conceptual elaborations - directly by being introduced to the view (through Maha Ati, Mahamudra or Maha Madhyamika). Most beings need to take some steps to reach this non place. The first two lines talk about the initial stages of training in the three wisdoms of hearing, contemplating and meditating on emtpiness for a beeing that doesn't have superior faculties (chik char - means you heard the teachings ones and are liberated on the spot. dzogchen mahamudra and maha madyamika has that power) So first we have to work with the antidote to our clinging to phenomena as truly/substantially existent, that is of course to meditate on the absence of true/substantial existence thats the initial phase - the understanding of the nominal absolute truth (a presentation mainly used in the nyigma school) this nominal absolute truth is the conceptual realization that all phenomena from the form aggregates up till the omniscient mind of the Buddha are just illusion, like a dream etc. (the 8 similies of illusion - longchenpas "resting in illusion" is maybe the most beautiful practice manual for working with those 8 similies) this first conceptual understanding is important and should be correct and varified by a lineage master in discussions with him or her. then comes the next step - moving towards the actual absolute truth (the dharmakaya) through familiarizing one self with the thought "this is just a dream, all is empty" and more importantly through confidence in this view (and confidence comes through using madhyamika meditations into the true abiding nature of phenomena) what will happen is that slowly this concept ("there isn't anything") also will be abandoned the traditional example given is this: two wooden sticks - one of those stick is the concepts that things exist, the other stick is the concept that things do not exist through rubbing the stick together the actual fire of nowness awereness (Yeshe or Jnana) will be born and consume both the sticks without anything remaining Verse 33 "there is nothing" - when this is asserted, No thing is there to be examined. How can a "nothing", wholly unsupported, Rest before the mind as something present? now we move into the great madhyamika view - that is freedom from all conceptual ellaborations. If the yogi uses MAdhyamika meditations into the true abiding nature of conventional reality (the conventional reality is the method by which the absolute is realized, says a Quote, don't remember from where that comes) such a yogi will see that the ultimate truth of a conventional entity (lets say a vase) is utterly unborn -then at that moment if the meditation is powerful enough this yogin will also see that even the conventional (appearing) level of this vase is utterly unborn. "there is nothing" - when this is asserted No thing is there to be examined. thats roughly what those lines mean so the last 2 lines say: How can a "nothing", wholly unsupported, Rest before the mind as something present? lets talk about the absence of an apple on my table... is that really a thing or not? I mean its a concept maybe but is it a thing - can an absence be a knowable entity, does that make any sense to try to know an "absence" I mean? the apple example is not so good here actually - why? because we can still conceptualize the absence of an apple on a table as a thought, but if the yogin penetrates to the actual abiding level of the conventional phenomena under investigation (the vase f.e.) what he will find is "nothing" its unborn - if it is unborn how could it cease? where could it abide? at that moment when the conceptual mind perceives this unborn nature of phenomena, then the conceptual mind itself becomes the nature of the antidote (emptiness) and dies (becomes unborn) from chandrakirtis Madhyamikavatara Suchness is unborn, and mind itself is also free from birth; And when the mind is tuned to this, it is as though it knows the ultimate reality. For since you say that consciousness cognizes when it takes the aspect of a thing, It's right for us to speak in such a way. (why is it right to speak in such a way? thats another very long discussion - in short the true nature of reality can't be spoken about - for one there is no subject/object duality so it can't be "known" in the ordinary sense of the word - yet from the point of view of an arya bodhisattvas meditative equipoise we can "speak in such a way" - OK that was the shortest version ) the last verse 34 one of the most famous verses of the Bodhisattvacharyavatara (its said that shantideva started flying into the sky and his disembodied voice finished the teaching, when he gave the transmission for this verse) Verse 34 When something and its nonexistence both are absent from before the mind, no other option does the latter have: it comes to perfect rest, from concepts free and that is called attaining the citadel of the dharmakaya free from all conceptual elaborations so Madhyamika is not just a strange philosophy without a view - it has a view: the freedom from all conceptual elaboration now that view of course is inexpressible, unthinkable and beyond the ordinary mind, its the unity of the two truths, the great equality of all phenomena and their innate purity (the tantric term purity means the emptiness of phenomena) P.S.: great masters like Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche say that Dzogchen is just a very beautiful way of packing the teachings of emptiness

The skeptics to which I refer are the type without any critical thinking/ questioning/ self investigation. Their answer to everything is basically no or whatever the TV, school teacher told them was the truth, these people often live an entire life without any personal development. They'll die with the same beliefs they had/were given when they were a teenager basically. The constant nay sayers generally, who at every dream, innovation or new discovery will say "no". A man says he will build a flying machine they say "it isn't possible", this type of person. A person speaks of Chi and they will say "no such thing", end of conversation.

What are you waiting for? One's shadow is a wellspring of power, the raw materials for infinite manifestation in light. To acknowledge and leave alone is to nurture... The path of awareness and the path of experience are both available to us. When we acknowledge the root of darkness within and do nothing, it grows. When we choose that path we enter the path of awareness through experience, rather than the pure light of awareness - hitting at the very heart of the meaning of life... To let wither has less power than to enlighten. When you enlighten that acknowledged shadow, it fights for life giving up its primordial power unto thine own will. When you enter the path of awareness through experience - you are walking into the (in this example) alchemy of relationships. If we go within and heal acknowledged shadow we remove the need to manifest inner shadow in the outer holographic illusion. Our biggest asset in the alchemy of relationships is the illusion of other. When we buy into the illusion of darkness within we buy a ticket for the illusion of other in the external dream. She is coming to do the gardening that you neglected, thinking it marvelous to acknowledge said shadow and leave it underground - she hears the calling, creates the scenario, hoes it up to the light of day and leaves it to dry in the sun. Poison it with light before it grows into 3D.

dear brother from an empty forest, I will try to have a chat with your doubts, I am not confident I can clear them - because of many reasons (one for example is that I don't get the utterly pure and perfect view of Lord Buddha totally) So let's say instead of talking with me you hang out with a bad ass lama both a scholar a yogi and a gentleman - someone who spend 30+ years working with emptiness on all different levels from madhyamika up to dzogchen or mahamudra. so if that lama is teaching you madhyamika many of the doubts will melt away because there is a being who embodies the innermost meaning of these strange reasonings into reality - basically you see the transformation that happens through studying and working/meditating on emptiness in a correct way. the result of that sits inf ront of you and talks to you, and that can change a lot. I mean the words and reasons and treatises are incredible - its so good we have access to them, but there is also a living tradition - and thats even more incredible (interlude: meditating - > tibetan sgom means to familiarize, so you never just sit down with this information in a nice 7 point posture straight back etc. you work with it as a reality model, a new set of sunglasses that will get rid of all kinds of conceptual sunglasses even the pair labeled "emptiness" sunglasses - and see what happens to you and your perception in the process) OK - that being said I still feel its nice to talk about emptiness, and I feel I got enough teachings to talk about it in a way that won't create more misconceptions for you or me (I least hope that) and maybe we get into the "zone" through that as well First part of your reply or doubt: back to the brainself problem lets talk about ordinary beings first and then I will also mention some "extraordinary" beings and their brainselfs an ordinary beings personality or sense of self is not just altered through brain surgery, its altered also through heart surgery (a lot actually, so there is a special psychologist in austria - and probably in other parts of the western world, consulting with you if you happen to have a heart surgery - because your sense of self will be veeeeery different after) but also lets say you are right handed - you are a tennis pro, you loose your right hand. what to say, I mean what would you do then? note to self: self grasping is nasty what if the germans come and cut of my johnson!?!?!?! the result is a major freak out - and I will never ever be the same that doesn't proof that the form aggregate equals conciousness, doesn't proof it at all, it just shows they are interdependent also neuroplactisity (did I spell that right?) shows that through meditating you change the matter of your brain! So not just cutting a piece of "important" body away alters your perception of reality also changing your perception of reality changes the matter of your brain (and rest of your body by the way)! Ok I edit this a bit later... I need chai! ---------------- that was ordinary beings now lets talk about two (in my view extraordinary beings) Ram Dass and Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche both had a stroke so there brain and speech box are completely different after that no? I'm not a Doctor so maybe I make this up anyway there was a Ram Dass and a CTRinpoche before and after the Stroke, and those are two very different enteties - the way they manifest and interact with reality seems very different I mean. Now did it fundamentally alter their insight into reality? Not really no, doesn't look like it, I know students of CT Rinpoche and they basically said CT Rinpoche after the Stroke plus a liter of Sake was maybe the most powerful Buddhist teacher to dwell in the western hemisphere at that time. Ok next step of your doubt: brain and conciousness are interdependent - what is more important conciousness or the brain? Lets talk about the Chittamatrin view(simple version, because the profound version I can't talk about). First the Shravaka schools: the Vaibashika and Sautantrika have differences but also share a similarity in how they establish the two truths and the Chittamatrins (mainly Vasubandhu) lets that collaps in a single verse composed of only four lines but first how do the shravaka schools establish the two truths? they talk of two levels basically: the coarse level and the subtle level of subject/object duality (both the coarse and subtle level is seen as substantially established) the coarse level of objects is the relaitve or conventional truth (coarse forms, like a pillar or vase) the coarse level of the subject is the coarse continuum of conciouness grasping at those objects ultimate truth is the subtle level of objects and subjects the subtle level of objects is the infitissimal partless particle - the smallest possible building block of reality - its said to partless, because there is nothing more fundamental or smaller -> thats the ultimate level of objective reality, the deep end every form sound smell etc is composed of that the subtle level of the subject is the shortest indivisble moment of conciousness ALL OF THAT IS SUBSTANTIALLY ESTABLISHED - the subtle and the coarse level is there, really there as a substance! so the chittamatrins need four lines to get rid of the concept of outer forms being substantially established (I skip how they invalidate the subjectiv shortest indivisible moment of conciousness, becasue of lazyness and anyway we talk about brains being "really" there and being maybe, and only maybe the "real" cause for "real" conciousness to emerge...) If six particles are joined to on, this partless one acquires six parts. If these six particles all coincide, then even heaps become a single particle Vasubandhu said that It means basically that the central particle is surrounded by particles in the 6 directions and connects with some of them and some not but if there are connections between particless - then they have parts (the directions of front/back left/right up/down) so they are not the fundamental constituent of reality because you can show that they have still parts - six at least then those six have again directional parts etc.... nothing is there to be found ultimately if people still claim that these partless particles exist and are the most fundamental building block of reality and that they are indivisible and partless then no matter how many partless particles assamble the outcome can only ever be one particle - because they have no parts to connect and because of that fuse into one so the chittamatra school says what we think of matter out there is just a dream - just a mental hologram WITHOUT ANY SUBSTANCE prasangika goes further and also refutes the chittamatra claim that there are no outer objects as matter but they exist as aspects of mind (i.e.: chittamtra says that matter is actually a mental hologram made by karmic imprints and ignorance) - and that this minds nature is empty of subject/object duality and self-aware self-illuminating conciousness, thats the ultimate truth in the cittamatrin view - the rest like thoughts, concepts, outer phenomena is seen as the relative - dreamlike appearences that arise from grasping at this nature of mind (that is empty of subject/object duality) as being an inner perceiver and an outer universe that exists objectively, but all is in fact mind (hence mind only school, but you guys knew that) doesnt there ultimate truth sound alot like rigpa? maybe but only if no one explained the difference between the chittamatrin view and the dzogchen view to you (that I won't do because I can't really and also because I fear the dakinis will cut of my Johnson, if I start talking too much Dzogchen speak on a internet forum) Madhyamika also refutes the position of the chittamatra that there is something like a nondual self-aware self-illuminating conciousness (one that is truly established) - brings me to your last point about madhyamika and the beginningless mental continuum no ultimately there is no continuum of mind (see previous posts on the meaning of "continuum" and hte example of the mala - and time/reincarnation) - but relatively there is an illusion like continuum of mind - also relatively there is time and therefore reincarnation (all that is happening like an illusory display - or like a hologram) A friend of mine told me about a whole section of the Abidharmakosa that deals with the problem of saying coniousness comes from matter - its one of many chapters in a very old buddhist scripture. He said it blew his mind, and of course it doesn't answer or explain anything beyond the fact that its logically impossible to claim that consiouness comes from matter. so where does it come from? where? where? a quick madhyamika question for you guys: is this self aware self illuminating mind that is empty of subject object duality one or different from the aggregates? and whats the problem with the claim no.1 and whats the problem with claim no.2? P.S.: lets talk as if its all just in your head I edited the post for easier comprehension - my english is a bit sloppy sometimes

I don't know if I can answer your brainself question fully (because obviously I stilll have clinging to the aggregates as the self), but I will try my best to give you some imput I won't use actual madhyamika reasoning for now, I just try to share some basic teachings on the whole subject of the "brainself" If it doesn't satisfy I will post some quotes and reasonings into the unreality of the self done by Shantideva or Chandrakirti for now maybe this already can clarify some points for you: (I also have chai so it should be productive) first of course if you say that the self is the brain then also a brain in a glass jar is the self - that makes no sense right? also the decaying brain of a corpse would be the self... Ok something first, maybe that helps: buddhist logic and philosophy is a philosphy that is based on grammar and conceptual mind (it uses the shortcomings of conceptual mind and language to point to the enlightened non conceptual nature of mind - to use some dzogchen speak "you can't figure it out so just leave it as it is, don't fabricate") so its not like western logic based on math, its based on grammar and language (a critique of thinking mind made by an enlightened mind using concepts) so the closest we have to Nagarjuna, Chandrakirti, Shantideva, Aryadeva etc. and Buddha is Wittgenstein, not so much Plato or Pythagoras another point is that matter and mind have two different cuntinua - our sense of self is an imputation based on the aggregates (they include all subjective and objective phenomena - mind and matter) so there is merely a link betwenn mind and matter - they are dependently originated. Mind itself doesn't come from matter - thats the buddhist view (buddhism is not a materialist religion) our western flatland view is something like: if you put some chemicals together in a certain way you create a mind - thats non sense because if matter could produce mind then why is a stone not a person? because the way the chemicals are linked together is not correct so it can't create a mind? I don't know I don't know... now a computer could simulate a being: its matterial form and even certain behaviour - if you hit that computer generated orc it will hit back if you leave it in peace the orc won't mind you ... something like that. The simulated Orc obviously has reactive patterns of attachment/aversion is build from matter and information - still doesn't have a mind in a buddhist sense because matter and information (I mean 10010010000001 kind of information) alone can't produce a mind that will reincarnate (but probably here we can have a long strange sci fi discussion... oi weh - I see it coming) Also I feel that the idea: my self or mind is in the brain is an imputed sense of self, not the inborn sense of self (see my post above) why? because indians and tibetans say the mind comes from the heart - they point to their heart when speaking of "Me". Actually we do that too, but I feel because thinking is soooo important in our culture (we do way too much of it) we focus our attention on our brain - the prana goes out of balance (rises upwards) and some people in bad cases have tense shoulders, tense throats, migranes etc... and then yes suddenly our sense of self seems to be connected with our brain not with our heart both are wrong - and an imputed sense of self: means we learned to connect our sense of self with certain parts of our body and that attribution is different in different cultures (its usually never the right nostril btw. I will research why it is never the right nostril later) so is the self to be found within the aggregate of form? heart, brain, nostril what have you? like you said its not just one of those - it can't be - then maybe its a connection of those? So is it in the connection of lungs, heart, brain + the outer environment air, food, warmths etc ? lets say we have a nice corps (died unanatural death but still in a fantastic form), a relatively fresh one (blood is still liquid) - we prepare the lungs heart brain even big and small intestine - Oh what the hack lets just use the whole corpse and plug it into something that pumps in air, water, food - some little device that makes the heart pump etc. would it create a mind stream? and based on that the inborn sense of self? highly questionable - I would say No why? Mind and Matter have a different continuum. basically in indo tibetan buddhism what gives rise to your body is different things the red bindu (blood) of the mother and the white bindu (semen) of the father plus the blue bindu of conciousness not just the blood and semen of mother and father - also conciousness needs to be around to connect them to form a body what gives rise to the mind then? well the previous instant of mind - its a mental continuum without beginning and end the definition of this mental continuum is - luminous and cognizing the definition of matter is different - matter isn't luminous and cognizing so it can't give rise to a luminous and cognizing mind INTERLUDE: if you then think oh wait wait a second - the mental continuum the most subtle mental continuum is my self - yes I found it... nope wrong again (see the example of the mala above) back to the brainself - a corpse or simple matter can't produce a mind so how could the brain alone or in connection with other organs produce one? the sense of self is shown to be merely imputed on top of hte aggregates (form up to consciouness) there is no such self in reality neither one with the aggregates nor different from them lets talk about the aggregate of form (visual form) for a second: like we sit around a table you and me - I make a picture of the table and call it "Tisch" (I'm austrian so my mother tongue is german) you make a little snapshot of the table from another angle and call it a "table" now where is the real substantially existing table? in your head or in my head? are there two tables that are substantially existing? or just one? obviously there is just one thing there that we name a table (but is there really?) - but does me naming the table Tisch make your table less real for someone who doesn't speak english? what about a spanish guy coming along who doesn't speak german or english and says we are both wrong its a "mesa" (is that spanish for table? I don't remember) could it be that without labels or names and the process of naming and labeling phenomena - that there wouldn't be phnenomena out there? can we know the category of phenomena named "table" without the label? thats somethink to think about prasangika doesn't even accept that the aggregates are mere labels (or like the cittamatrins would say the aggregates are merely mind - they don't exist outside - they are just like dream phenomena) - madhyamika goes further and says they are completely unborn (from the point of view of their true nature - relatively speaking there seems to be birth or arising abiding and ceasing of phenomena - but as soon as you use madhyamika reasoning the whole thing becomes like space, completely beyond the conceptual elaboration - you can't make any claims about the true nature of reality - that there is a true nature or not for example - no category, label, concept works) so all phenomena contained withing the 5 aggregates (that means all of reality by the way, when buddhist say 5 aggregates they mean everything that arises) are unborn, unceasing neither one nor many - beyond all conceptual elaboration, the unity of the two truth and the great equanimity of samsara and nirvana (now we just went to nagarjuna country) if you are into Non duality btw. I dare say (thats my opinon) Prasangika madhyamika is the most radical teaching on non duality on planet earth - nagarjuna was waaaaay out there anyway in this and many other ways the aggregates themself are shown (if you use reasoning into the ultimate nature of reality, means prasangika Madhyamika reasoning) to be unborn, so they never came into being, they don't abide, so also they are unceasing thats the result of madhyamika analysis - that phenomena are completely free of conceptual elaboration, all phenomena means the basis of the sense of self (the aggregates) the sense of self nothing can withstand ultimate analysis and is shown to be the union of apperance/emptiness (that takes couple of days if you would study a madhyamika text with a lama) what does nagarjuna mean when he says Peace? he means all conceptual elaborations have been exhausted by meditating on emtpiness - so mind dies - wisdom shines

some more lists and definitions of terms: essence, nature and energy is one = non dual gnosis (its all in dharmakaya rigpa, so if we get that we got the essence of all yanas, practices, lineages, transmisions, deities, vows and samayas etc in one practice) essence is emptiness (the empty aspect of the nature of mind) nature is clarity (the appearances, what in sutra is called appearances is called luminosity, or clarity aspect of the nature of mind in Tantra) energy is infinite emanations of compassion (the energy that comes from seeing the union of appearance/emptiness is great compassion, natural and unobstructed) essence is dharmakaya nature is sambhogakaya energy is nirmanakaya the perfectly pure nadis are nirmanakaya (impure nadi is the body and what gives rise to the body) the perfectly pure prana is sambhogakaya (impure prana is the speech and what gives rise to speech) the perfectly pure bindu is dharmakaya (impure bindu is dualistic mind and what gives rise to mind) "all form are deity" how to purify forms into the nirmanakaya (basic view for this to work? form is emptiness) "all sounds are mantra" how to purify energies, vibrations, sounds into the sambhogakaya (sound is emptiness) "all minds are yeshe (nowness awareness)" how to purify all concepts into the dharmakaya (mind is emptiness) for me it all boils down to understanding appaerance/emptiness and that things are constantly happening is only possible because they are empty appearance dream like so its important to understand the union of appearance emptiness, if there is no appaerance you can't talk about emptiness at all, if there is no emptiness you can't talk about appearances at all so dreamlike appearances is the union of appearance/emptiness (there is not even an atom between those two)

Thanks for sharing. Does not the Heart sutra say that Form = Emptiness and also Emptiness = Form? Is not "everything arises like a dream or illusion" only he first part of the Heart sutra? Don't buy into the concept of the three primordial wisdoms: essence, nature, and energy?

The utterly pure view is the union of appearance/emptiness Appearance meaning dependently originated phenomena Emptiness is the absence of a "core" you could say - their openness or space like nature That everything arises like a dream or illusion without "substance" Chackras are dream Energies are dream