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Wow, I thought the world only has few people like "us." Mine happened (kundalini energy rising) when I was 18. After waking up from a dream, dream of my past life (at least one of them). I am in my late 30s.

Ok Just to start with Id like to say. Some people go on and on about emptiness. Like Nothing really exists, everythings just an illusion, detach from everything. Imo this can very quickly and easily become concepts themselves and false. I mean I have a mind, I have a body. People know what the sun is and what a dog is. Bushmen Shamans the oldest tribal spiritual peoples emphasise the importance of feeling love in their shaking ceremonies to open the heart. Sufi Mystics also focus on love first to open the heart. Native Americans use plenty of prayer. Imo someone trying to access certain states of being without love or connection of the heart is doing it wrong. This can easily become nihilism, depression and dark. I mean you can observe it in the aggressiveness of some of the people who claim to be spiritual masters but attack anyone who disagrees with their views on this forum. I know people will likely ignore this. But I just felt like giving my view. When I do spontaneous movements if my heart is open and I feel love its a mystical experience if not it is a completely different one. I am not actually giving an opinion because one can also say that emptiness is all there is and be happy in pain. The Challenge of Healing Native American healing is not an academic discipline that can be learned from books. Nor can it be grasped by participating in rituals, visiting power places, or following in the footsteps of other healers. The lessons are learned from nature, from the original elders: stone, water, earth, fire, air, animal, and plant. Their power enters into the soul through dreams and vision- seeking and during times of sacrifice and fasting. We fast from food, from water, from words and busy-mindedness. In some traditions, a seeker also fasts from light, meditating in a dark chamber or cave. Healing power comes as a grace to those who are humble enough to listen and courageous enough to express and act on their vision. The Native American way is not for everyone. We each have our unique talents, gifts, and life purpose. Health is enhanced by discovering that gift and expressing it in a way that brings harmony and happiness to our communities and world. "You don't choose the medicine," said Keetoowah, "it chooses you." This is especially true of spirituality, the medicine path that leads people to the Divine. Don't pursue God like an object that you can grasp; rather live in a good way and you will receive what is needed. You may find that your medicine is Jewish, Christian, Celtic, Norse, or African. It is most likely the religion of your ancestors. However, it is also possible that your path is unique and not easily categorized. No spiritual gift or life purpose is better or worse than any other. In fact, each facet of the human spirit fits together like a puzzle-- like the continents that were once joined. After all, even science must now admit that people are more similar than different. There is greater genetic diversity between two lowland gorillas living in the same habitat than between an Alaskan Inuit, an Australian aborigine, and an Italian. If we have a single genetic ancestor, then perhaps we also share a common, though fragmented, spiritual teaching. A phrase from the original instructions is written in every soul. The path of a Native American healer is not easy. An invitation must be extended by an elder or a spirit, and/or one may be compelled by a vision or deep intuition. And tests must be passed. The healer may find him or herself wounded and challenged as Spirit offers lessons in compassion and fortitude. I had to symbolically face North, the direction of Winter and death, during a seven year period of illness and personal hardship. I was lucky and passed through my "dark night of the soul" to stand in the East, the direction of Spring. Some people are not so fortunate; they face North and die. I am not trying to scare you away from Native American medicine if that is your calling. However, it is important to understand that although all paths are equal, they are not equally smooth or easy. I remember sitting with Keetoowah and a group of spiritual seekers one day. A young white man asked Keetoowah, "What do I need to do to become a medicine man?" Keetoowah scolded the man for his presumption, "I wouldn't wish that curse on anyone. And you can't do anything to become a medicine person!" How to Learn About Native Culture We do not have the right to trespass on Native American sacred sites or ceremonies any more than we may enter a person's home without permission. It is not that particular ethnicities are excluded because of the color of their skin. The problem is that many people have a romantic or stereotyped view of Native Americans, and thus pursue teachings for the wrong reasons. Rather than following an authentic inner voice, they believe that Native ways are adventurous, fun, and exotic and that it is their right to imitate and appropriate them. Remember, also, that Native healing is only one aspect of Native culture. There are many respectful ways to learn about Native American culture, including: Reading. There are many excellent books about every facet of culture. See the resources at the end of this article for some that I especially recommend. Observing or participating in intertribal dance, music, and cultural gatherings known as pow-wows. When the master of ceremonies announces, "Intertribal. Everyone dance!" that includes you! The location and dates of pow-wows can be found in News from Indian Country and Native Peoples Magazine, listed in resources below. Enjoying the arts, culture, and history presented at Native American art shows, galleries, trading posts, and at museums such as the National Museum of the American Indian, the Gilcrease Museum, the Pequot Museum, the Heard Museum, the Iroquois Museum, and the many fine museums of individual Indian nations, often located on reservations. Listening to Native American music. Music is an important key to culture. You can find Native music in trading posts and most music and museum shops. Vendors at pow-wows have the largest selection. Offering financial support to organizations that defend the land and rights of Native peoples, such as the Native American Rights Fund (1506 Broadway, Boulder, CO 80302). Learning how to be a better protector and caretaker of your local environment through peaceful political activism (including voting) and ecologically responsible behavior that reduces consumption and waste. Exploring "primitive," that is, primal survival and living skills, such as building shelters, starting fires with a wooden drill, tracking, and recognizing and using local healing herbs. If an invitation is extended, observing or participating in Native American ceremonies. Many of these, such as the Sweat Lodge, are widely practiced and sometimes open to non-Native people as a way of building cross-cultural bridges. Learn the proper etiquette and protocol for the ceremony by asking more experienced participants or your host. Beware, however, of individuals who charge money for sacred ceremony. Educational seminars may require tuition; but according to Native tradition, it is immoral to equate healing or ceremony with a specific bundle of "frog skins" (green currency, or any other color of money). Sharing the Wisdom Certain aspects of Native American culture can and must be shared if humanity is to survive. Native traditions can teach us how to live in harmony with the land and each other and to prevent the widely prophesied "Earth Changes." The foundation of Native American culture and healing is traditional values. When Seneca elder Twylah Nitsch was a young girl, her grandfather placed twelve stones on the ground in a circle and described how each symbolized a gift along the Pathway of Peace, a road to balanced living. I use a similar wheel to teach my students, derived primarily from Grandma Twylah, but also from the teachings of other elders. The gifts are: Learning. Learn from all our relations, from mountain, plant, animal, human, from dreams, from elders and children, from stories and life experiences. Good learning creates connection and caring; poor learning is intellectual baggage. Respect. Honor all forms of life; do not be careless in your thoughts, words, and actions. Respect yourself; low self-esteem insults Creator's precious gift of life. Acceptance. We cannot grow unless we accept who we are and have the courage to face and learn from our weaknesses and shadows. Spiritual Sight. Sight and insight are equally important. Spiritual sight means ridding the mind of mental screens, so that we perceive the world without preconception, stereotype, and prejudice. Listening. The spiritual person is a good listener. Native American elders sometimes test prospective students by observing how comfortable they are with silence. The narcissistic person is always thinking and speaking and thus has nothing to express but his or her own opinions. There is no silent space in which to simply listen and experience. Speaking. If we can hear the truth but are afraid to express and live it, even when it goes against the crowd, then we can never find inner peace. Walk your talk, and talk your walk. Love. Keetoowah once said to me that he used to fight his enemies, but later decided he was going to love them to death! Love is for warriors, not whimps. Indian healers like to remind Christians that Jesus' love did not prevent him from throwing greedy merchants out of the temple. Actions that increase love are good; actions that decrease love are evil. Service. Service is more than "helping." Some people help from a position of superiority and expect something in return. True service is selfless and without ulterior motive. Relationship. Native American prayers frequently include the expression "All my relations." We are all related, like plants growing from the same soil. The action of any member of a community affects all members. We are accountable to each other and to all of nature. A feeling of connectedness is the source of responsible action. Creativity. Nature never repeats herself. Although we are all related, we must each find our own path to Creator. An Innu elder once told me, "If you sing someone else's song, you are called a liar in my language." Creativity means allowing the mind to soar like the eagle. The eagle does not follow any one else's ruts and leaves no track in the sky. Dynamic Spirituality. The spiritual person does not sit in a cave and wait for "enlightenment" before doing good in the world. A medicine person is in the front lines. A warrior like Geronimo would lead his warriors, not watch from the hill top. Spiritual warriors stand up for what they believe in and fight against injustice. Gratitude. Gratitude is more than saying "thank you." We can express gratitude through music, song, prayer, dance, and art. When we are grateful to Creator for our gifts and blessings, we strengthen those blessings. If you receive a meaningful dream, thank Creator for the dream, and it is more likely to come true. If a deer crosses your path or an eagle flies overhead, thank these "creature teachers," as Twylah Nitsch calls them. Spiritual powers that appear in vision are more likely to hang around when they see concrete expressions of gratitude. They don't like to be taken for granted. Closing Words Like other spiritual paths, Native American tradition emphasizes ridding the mind of selfishness and egotism. "Ego means Edging God Out" -- ego blocks the voice of spirit. Even if you are not invited to a Sweat Lodge or Sacred Pipe Ceremony, you can still learn the wisdom of Native American healing. Have the courage to meet life face to face, nakedly, as in the Sweat Lodge. Become a hollow reed or pipe through which the Creator can send His/Her sacred breath and guidance. Resources Suggested Reading Cohen, Kenneth. Honoring the Medicine: The Essential Guide to Native American Healing. NY: Ballantine Books, June, 2003. Beck, Peggy V. and Anna L. Walters. The Sacred. Tsaile (Navajo Nation), AZ: Navajo Community College Press, 1977. Four Worlds Development Project. The Sacred Tree. University of Lethbridge, Alberta, Canada, 1988. What is Native American Healing?By "Native American" I mean the indigenous people of North America, as defined by Native American nations. Only these sovereign nations have the right to define tribal identity. And I use the term "healing" to distinguish it from curing. Curing is the domain of licensed health-care providers, such as physicians. It means applying a therapy with the purpose of eradicating disease. Curing can be measured and replicated. Healing, on the other hand, means to make whole and holy, to establish a greater connection between self and nature, self and community. It focuses on qualitative change more than quantitative, on spiritual well-being more than cure. Of course curing disease is a desirable outcome or side effect, but it is not the primary purpose. In fact, only the Great Spirit knows the ultimate purpose or outcome of a Native healing ceremony. Native American healing is part of Native spirituality. It goes way beyond science and medicine. In other words, we should not attempt to license medicine men? The very idea is absurd and I would even say insulting. Neither licensing boards nor government agencies, whether state or federal, should interfere with Native American spiritual practices and religious freedom. You can't test or expect uniform answers from healers who are given unique instructions by the Great Spirit! Also, each of the more than 500 tribes in North America have their own culture, language, and healing traditions. Are you a medicine man? In my view, the term "medicine man" is an honorific, a title conferred by a Native elder or community because of a person's healing knowledge, wisdom, courage, and selfless attitude. It is not proper for a person to call him or herself a medicine person. How old is Native American healing? Do you believe that it was already in existence when Native Americans crossed the Bering Straits on their way to the New World? No one knows the age or origin of Native American healing. It has been practiced in North America for at least 40,000 years, and possibly for much longer. Anthropologists are now forced to admit that they seriously underestimated the antiquity of the occupation of North America. Some tribes' oral traditions describe volcanoes that have been extinct for one million years. How do you explain that? I can'tWell, here's my version of the Bering Straits legend. Native Americans started in North America. They traveled from North America across the Bering Straits many years ago, when North America and the Russian Far East were connected by a land bridge. They didn't like what they found there, so they came back. And that's why you find evidence of cultural diffusion going both directions. Honestly, I think the Bering Straits nonsense was created by Europeans to prove that, since Native peoples were not originally in North America, the colonizers had as much right to the land as they. With this kind of logic, it is more correct to say that both Europe and North America belong to Africa. After all, geneticists are certain that homo sapiens originated there. You call your book Honoring the Medicine? Does this title have a special meaning?Yes, the medicine is that which inspires a sense of the sacred. It is a power in people and in nature. It is the breath of the Great Spirit. The purpose of my book and the dedication of my life is to honor the medicine. Honoring the medicine is also a principle in Native American healing practice. Healers teach their patients to discover and honor their unique medicine-- their life purpose. Honor the medicine by living it, by having the courage to express it and use it for the good of others. To honor the medicine is to live a satisfying life. What, from a Native American viewpoint, are the primary causes of disease?People become sick because they do not follow the Creator's instructions. They bend to the conditioning influences and pressures of educational and religious institutions. They fill their lives with things and their minds with noise rather than silence. They forget how to listen to the deepest voice, a voice that is both inside and outside. I would say that this is the primary cause of disease. Yet Native people, like modern physicians, recognize that there are many causes of disease. It is never simple. According to Native teachings, there may be physical reasons for disease, such as exposure to viruses or bacteria; emotional factors like depression or anxiety; and spiritual factors such as living without gratitude, breaking taboos, or vulnerability to negative or even evil forces. How do Native healers treat disease?There is no universal method. It depends on the culture of the healer and his or her training, sensitivity, vision, and connection to spirit. However, if we look at Native cultures generally, we can say that certain methods are extremely common-- and these are explored in detail in my book. For example, all healers pray; most sing and use sacred instruments such as the drum. And many Native healers practice, counseling, ritual, massage or laying on of hands, and herbal medicine. And, by the way, most healers use therapeutic humor. I've learned most of my jokes from Indian people. Have Native healing methods changed over time, or are the methods today the same as those practiced in the past?Some methods have remained relatively unchanged, but many have evolved because of innovations and visions of influential healers and because of cultural exchange between healers from various tribes. Also, Native healers do not live in a vacuum. They are part of both the modern world and the ancient world. Today, it is not uncommon for a healer to pray over a prescription drug to increase its efficacy or to refer a patient to a physician to treat the medical side of a problem. Have you performed any miracle cures?Well they may seem like miracles because the Great Spirit is beyond our knowledge. For example, after one brief ceremony, a man with advanced multiple sclerosis was able to walk normally. A Vietnam vet overcame many years of post traumatic stress disorder after a ceremony in which he asked forgiveness of one of his victims. A drug addict stopped using drugs and got off the streets after an exorcistic ritual. I recount some of these stories in my book, but please remember that I did not perform the cures. The Great Spirit is the doctor. I just helped to make a connection with His/Her miraculous power. What do you charge for a consultation or a ceremony?Nothing. Nothing?Yes. Now, I can only speak for myself. I am not saying that other healers shouldn't charge for their services. But as I have been taught by my elders and instructed by Spirit, it is wrong to charge money for a traditional healing. When a person is sick we should not take advantage of him or her. A doctor should be generous and thus must be willing to be the poorest of the poor. I have never charged a fee for Native American medicine. Yet, this does not mean that healing is free. Some sacrifice, some offering must be made by the patient. Perhaps a pilgrimage or a fast, perhaps a donation to a Native charity-- something to demonstrate dedication, resolve, and good will. The patient may also need to pay travel expenses for a healer and his or her helpers and host a feast. In the old days, a patient might give horses and blankets; today a patient might offer personal gifts as well as money. But I personally feel that it is wrong to set a fixed fee for traditional healing. Does Native American medicine include practices that people can do for their own healing?Of course. For example the Lakota holy man, Fools Crow would doctor himself by sitting in the sunlight and using his hands to energetically remove unneeded or toxic forces. But the most important self-healing practices are 1. learning how to maintain inner silence and 2. spending as much time as possible in the wilderness. Herbal medicine and diet are also important components of a Native American self-healing program. I am a proponent of natural foods; we should eat fresh, seasonal, local, and organic. And stay away from the three whites: sugar, salt, and white flour. What about "bad medicine" or sorcery. Do you believe that it really exists?The human mind has the power to influence its own physiology in a positive or negative way. We also have the power to influence others. The greater the power, the greater the responsibility to use it correctly. I know people who have been the victims of curses. It is real, and curses work whether the victim believes in them or not. I tell several stores of curses and cures in my book. Are there any dangers? For example, do Native American therapies produce side effects?Before I answer this question, let's look at the record of western medicine. More than 200,000 people die each year in hospitals because of unforeseen effects of medication. Many people also die from surgical complications. And if we look at subjective reactions to western medicine, it is even more grim. Patients generally feel worse after seeing a physician. Taking penicillin or having blood drawn or one's anatomy probed is not fun. By contrast, Native American medicine is generally safe and free of unpleasant side-effects. Of course there are some commonsense precautions, such as not advising an anorexic to fast and not feasting a diabetic on donuts. Significantly, patients generally feel better after visiting a Native healer than they did before seeing him or her. Is Native American healing used as a stand-alone therapy? What do Native people think of Western medicine?No person or culture has a monopoly on healing wisdom or technique. Is Western medicine a stand alone therapy? Or does the patient need the loving support of his or her family to truly overcome disease? Does the patient require counseling or lifestyle changes? Perhaps the patient must take herbs or yogurt to heal his intestines after a course of antibiotics. What therapy on earth is a stand alone therapy? Native American philosophy is pragmatic. If it works, use it. Native medicine men do not hesitate to personally visit doctors for bacterial infections, trauma, diabetes management, and many other conditions. They go to the optometrist and the dentist, just like you and me. What illnesses can Native American healing cure? Is there scientific evidence?I have personally facilitated healings from cancer, arthritis, chronic pain, encephalitis, migraine, Crohn's Disease, fibromyalgia, diabetes, chronic fatigue, asthma, multiple sclerosis, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, and other conditions. Not all aspects of Native healing are subject to measurement. For example, we can measure distinct changes in brainwaves, blood chemistry, and skin conductivity in both the healer and patient, but we cannot measure the Great Spirit or his power directly. We can determine the biochemically active agent in a healing herb, but cannot measure how the prayers of the healer empower that herb. Some of the best healing research was conducted at the Menninger Institute during the 1980s and early 1990s. Compared to untrained people, exceptional healers were able to produce unusual electrical currents on the skin and electric fields around their bodies. The results were published in peer-reviewed scientific journals. How many healers were tested?Nine. You were one of those healers, weren't you?Yes. The Personal Side Your last book was about qigong, Chinese healing therapies, and you are well known as master of qigong. I understand that you even speak the Chinese language. Is qigong related to Native American healing, and how do you manage to teach or write about these two different subjects?There are two major similarities between qigong and Native American healing. First, both qigong and Native American medicine are ancient and indigenous healing systems. Second, people who pay close attention to their bodies and to nature discover similar things. Thus, both cultures recognize the existence of subtle, invisible life currents, connected with the breath. And they independently created similar methods of balancing these life currents with acupuncture and massage. The Native American and Chinese healing systems are complementary. There are, however, some important differences. I feel that Native American healing is more truly holistic. It examines not only the energetic components of disease-- the specialty of qigong and acupuncture-- but also the emotional, mental, spiritual, and environmental. It also places a strong emphasis on the intuition, visions, and dreams of the healer. Why should it be difficult to write about or teach both Chinese and Native American traditions? If I told you that I was teaching French and Tibetan, you would say I was "talented." If I had graduate degrees in psychology and theology and taught courses in both, you would not assume discord-- provided that I didn't speak French while teaching Tibetan or confuse the psychology of Freud with theology of Hassidism! I teach and write about two different but related subjects. As an educator I keep them distinct. I see no need to fit myself into a box. Specialization is a European, colonial concept. How do Native people feel about you writing about Native American medicine?Elders have encouraged me to share what I know. A Cree medicine man did a ceremony over the title page of my book. The spirits blessed it and told me to publish. I had the same positive reaction from the many elders I visited or asked to review my work. They know that I am aware of traditional protocol--there are many things that I will not write about or allow to be recorded. Some teachings must be earned or only given at certain times. How did you become interested in Native American medicine?The medicine chose me. It is not a matter of interest or choice. I do what I have to do. To live any other way is to be disrespectful to the powers. If you are asking about the particular circumstances that clarified my life path-- that is easier to answer. When I was in my twenties I went on a pilgrimage, a search for life purpose that led me to a very special place-- a lake at the top of the continental divide, the home of Thunderbird, spirit of the West. Here I was given direction and purpose. How does a person become a medicine man or woman?Some people are born with the gift; it is in their blood and family line. Some receive it ceremonially, in a kind of initiation or transmission. But, to me, the most important way to become a medicine person is through personal training and sacrifice. How were you trained?I have been initiated into various Native American medicine societies. Elders have also transmitted the power of sacred stones and plants into my body and spirit. And, my formal adoption by a Cree elder was certainly a kind of initiation. I carry songs and teachings from my adoptive family. But, as I said above, the most powerful way to become a healer is through personal training. I have apprenticed with elders, participated in ceremonies, fasted, and prayed for a vision of my life purpose. Are there any teachers that had a particularly strong influence on your life, and could you tell us something about them?I tell stories about my teachers in a lengthy chapter at the back of my book. One of my most influential mentors was the Cherokee healer Keetoowah, who gave me my Indian name "Bear Hawk" and first taught me doctoring. He was a powerful and kind person and full of humor. He once told me that he'd done everything in his life except scalp a white man. He used to be quite a warrior, but in his old age, he said, "I've decided to love my enemies to death!" Any closing words or advice?Very few people are called by spirit to become medicine people, and even fewer survive the tests and tribulations of this path. But everyone can benefit by learning the values and ancient wisdom of Native peoples. My book emphasizes these values and teachings. My ultimate goal in writing Honoring the Medicine was to inspire people to live with greater honor and to respect themselves, each other, and the earth.

Are you saying that is rebirth possible and how it influences the MIND TRANSMISSION??? From my own experiences and intuitive insights, rebirth is necessary for mind transmission. Same for the Taoist system. I mean....I completed my MCO when I woke up from a dream. What I was dreaming?? The Han dynasty and seeing two "brothers" dressed in Han traditional clothing. I woke up and had my first kundalinie energy rising or completed my MCO. The rest was history....... In the Tao, there was no rebirth. The Tao was and is always there in the past, in the present, and in the future.

If we had 100+ members who could stand toe to toe with this nonsense, then I think we could turn the tide. We don't so we can't. Maybe one day though, we can dream right?

Sounds familiar to me! My post above was a rant, not really responding to your excorsism dream. I have been reading "the Tibeten yogas of dream and sleep" I will make a post in the book section once I am finished with it. I have effectively practiced guitar and studied for a class in my dreams. Depending on how lucid I am, I can make real progress in something I am familiar enough with while in conscious life. Maybe you can now rid people of demons? I had some pretty intense visualizations before sleep the other night that I couldn't seem to stop, and they were very frightening, I felt like I was being attacked. It's sometimes good to get that stuff out into a visual field I Think. I think.....

This : - speaking with a friend who learned tibetan, se said that someday she was speaking with a Rinpoche, and she asked him if tibetans knew about kundalini. He said "yes, but we don't want to speak of it". - one day my former lama said that he couldn't say what was death because of course he was alive, and alive is not dead. So I told publicly that I didn't believe him, because he said that he had realized the real meaning of rigpa, which meant he was dead for some time (I didn't add my reasons because people would not understand, not knowing what I was speaking about. I was speaking about meaning clear light, complete dissolution of the winds, which is equal of being clinically totally dead. My purpose was to make him teach about clear light for other people, something he never did, yet he is giving extensive teachings about dzogchen, emptiness, clarity... ). His answer was :"Are you saying that I am dead and came back ? mwahahaha !". He was just making a fool of me (and displaying his low consideration for others). I was OK with that, but this day, I knew he would keep holding back for a long time. It was a retreat, during which I tried to make him speak about clear light, winds dissolution etc. He always skipped. Anyway, half of his followers believe they've realized the true meaning of rigpa, just because he never went into the details, example clear lights, meaning clear light etc... he sometimes mentions things, but refuses to be clearer when asked. One other day I was telling that I was capable of being lucid during some dreams and asking a master for direct transmission of rigpa, within the dream. He said that someone capable of this would be rather advanced and could easily reach clear light of dream. When I asked for a definition of clear light of dream, he refused. When I asked for a method (in private), he refused. All these skillfull means are nonsense. But in some way I have no doubt he has a great realization. I just know he messed up things with me. Probably because he doesn't want me to be around and tell others how much he is holding back.

it will make that way i can life through karma in my mind and dreams. Getting connections how one thing is related to another, seeing that they are easier to go through makes it worth the temporal low moments in RL I got insight to the head processes after that session. And some other things. Lessening my wrong thinking gradually. --- Apparently i am rich and have a something cool is lived through a dream.

If you feel that way Small Dream, the solution is simple my friend find something else you like better. There is no reason to keep arguing, I've asked nicely for you to please stop, so I will ask again, please stop. Best wishes.

It is one thing to listen to the personal testimony of others, and quite another to see for yourself, believe what you like Small Dream, I am not here to argue with you. Best wishes.

Small Dream, We don't want teachers to do anything, we just aren't going to listen to them unless we have what we feel is a good reason to do so. Objective evidence of an investigation with scientists and medical doctors present to rule out fraud, we feel provides that at least for us. We provide what we believe is the best objective evidence available to us, and we encourage others who feel the same to come see for themselves. We do not charge, but we also do no tolerate trolls. Were our forum like this one with all the hatred and spit being flung into our faces our forum would be paralyzed. That is why we have to work so hard to screen out the trolls. If you think that makes us terrible people, then think that. If you don't think the evidence we present is valid, or that Jim and Kosta misunderstood, hey great! More power to you! The solution is simple, practice something you like better. There really isn't much more we have to say to one another, I sincerely wish you the best on your path, but are you really furthering yourself by continuing to stand here and spit in my face, throw insults, and direct so much anger and hatred at our group because you disagree with the way we think? Best wishes.

As for the 'actual' drem being a person who could help me, its kind of serendipitous that you'd type that (I assume you meant to include my dream in that statement). See, When I woke up, or rather, as the dream was ending, I got the sense that I was being pointed in the right direction. I was given the feeling that I needed to look inside, in the internal practices, meditation and chi gung--on a level more profound than I am currently able to. I got the 'Understanding qi gong' series by Dr. Yang, Jwing Ming. It provided some clarity, but does not really give a schedule or specific practice to go by. Several things since the time around that dream have pushed me in the same direction. I ordered a book, 'The Essence of Internal Martial Arts, vol. 1' by Jerry Alan Johnson. When the book arrived, I realized that I had gotten Volume 2 instead. I was after the Palm training/vibrational training material in volume 1, so I went ahead and ordered it. In my opinion, these 2 books are some of the greatest books I've ever bought in regards to martial arts. The 2 volumes go together/sort of inseparably. Anyway, they contain some energy practices that I just dont feel capable of doing for sure, as I've never really had a teacher for stuff like small circulation. I was inspired by what I read though, and realized I needed a more solid, deeper foundation before attempting some of the stuff in the book. So, I checked out this place, and low and behold, I found the KAP class-which I can do from home! Too bad I missed the free KAP sponsorship the other day by about 5 minutes. So as soon as I can afford it, I'll be signing up!! Its funny to me--whether it was my mind, or someone guiding me from elsewhere, I have been moving in this direction, and here I am. Pretty cool if you ask me. N-

Surely Kosta exaggerated what John said. As 小梦想 Small Dream put it "whatever you have in your mind to be so utterly incredible that you cannot even speak about it comparing it to being abducted by aliens is fantasy"

Hi Owledge Yes, fear. I've had it lots. Stopped me many times.. After I 'met Jesus' and got annointed by the Holy Spirit, I started to see demons. One night I had prayed in tongues for two hours. Then I went to bed. Just as I was ready to fall asleep, a small boy floated up beside the bed. I asked it "Who are you?". It said "What does it matter?". I said "I bind you in the name of Jesus Christ", and then suddenly the image of the small boy vanished and I found myself looking at what resembled a demon. It had a long snout like a crocodile, and big long teeth. Reptilian. It took a snap at me with it's jaws and then turned and vanished. After that I was binding everything I saw in the astral.. At first there was fear, but after I realized that Jesus is always there, always there, I no longer feared. However, the whole notion that perhaps demons actually did exists, and that perhaps some of what the Bible was saying might have actually been true caused me much grief. So, gradually I abandoned the whole religious thing. However, Jesus is always there, even now.. and the Holy Spirit too. There are many beings in the higher planes.. Another time, about 20 or more years ago, I wanted to know what the star was above the head. Everybody was talking about it. So, one afternoon I sat on my lazy body and said to myself, "I'm not getting up until I realize that star on the top of the head." So I sat there and focused on the point about 1 foot above the head and just kept focusing there with all my might. Well, three and half hours later I 'popped' out of the top of my head. I found myself in this huge open dark blue space, like I was in outer space. I had the immense fear that I had died. I could not overcome it. I quit the meditation and got up out of the chair. It took me a few years to get over that fear.. actually, more like 15 years.. In later meditations I came accross the same open space, and once I had overcome my fear of dying, I even jumped into that void. I did 'bounce' right back out, because it actually isn't just open space. There is a kind of clear luminous cellophane which prevented me from falling out of the location where my body should have been. Another time, recently, when I was practising "neither grasping nor averting" during a late night meditation, the whole top of my consciousness dissolved downwards into the heart. It felt like I was dying or going to pass out. No more consciousness. So, I stopped the meditation. But then, I researched that experience and discovered that Alan Wallace talked about exactly that experience. It is the moment when coarse consciousness dissolves into the alaya or substrate consciousness.. Gradually, I discovered more sources on the experience and convinced my mind that it really wasn't going to die. That's what I do. If I have an experience that causes me confusion or fear, I research it and learn as much as I can about it. That is all in an effort to convince my and help it assimilate the experience.. Sometimes it takes a long time.. There was one experience that still causes me 'fear'. It was when i was doing a practice of changing my visual focus every 1/2 a second, while walking through a lovely trail in the forrest. After doing that type of practice, not remaining on any one visual scene long enough for the conceptual mind to firmly grasp onto it, I went shopping. When I entered the store, all of a sudden the whole inside of the store appeared to me as if it was a dream. It was like looking at the bakery section from inside a tunnel or condensed image, like I had fallen asleep and was dreaming being in the store. That caused me allot of fear. I waited for about 3 minutes and fought real hard, then gradually regained normalcy. But, the whole idea that I could be doing something and suddenly the whole of reality could 'condense' into the tunnel-like vision that resembled a dream scared the shit out of me. What if that happened while I was driving? Or crossing the street? However, that practice, being in the present moment and not giving the mind enough time to grasp and start the conceptual dialog, is a practice that Eckhart Tolle wrote about in "Practising the Power of Now". And, as it turns out, it is also the 'secret Buddhist/Dzogchen' practice called "fresh awareness" or staying in the first moment when you refresh your awareness and take a new interest in the absolute present. I think that practice is probably the most powerful one for shattering the mind. And, it helps if you do it in circumstances that you love, like the forrest, or a natural setting.. (and then don't drive for a few hours after doing it.. LOL) And, yes, I have had experiences that I thought I was losing my mind. Especially after witnessing miracles, like healings and bizarre cases of synchronicity. But it always seems to come back.. I think it helps that I don't drink, don't do drugs and haven't for over 35 years.. And, I have a very strong mind and will. And, actually, if you have a strange experience, just start researching Buddhist writings. You're bound to find the experience written in some of the books. It's all old hat to them. TI

Small Dream, Whatever it is argument or discussion it is over. Best wishes.

Small Dream, As politely as I can, believe whatever you wish to believe. I am not going to argue with you further. Best wishes.

dream within a dream you wake and are suspended by your testicles. (just hanging guys, just hanging)

no one will get hurt it's just illusion, you know dream within a dream

Small Dream, I wouldn't feel comfortable posting on ANY public forum, under ANY username about what I have experienced, it absolutely cannot be believed, I wouldn't believe it if someone else said they experienced the exact same thing. It has to be seen first hand to be believed, it can't be believed any other way. Your other questions will not be answered here. Best wishes.

I had a dream last night that ended with me and a bunch of people trying to summon satan onto a mat. I recited some of what they were saying with them, but they were very unorganized and saying random things, I was focussed on laying what I perceived to be traps for the thing,should it come. The dream ended with one of my friends who wsa there saying something along the lines of "we should get more organized and find something on the net to chant together" When I woke up I looked in the mirror and noticed a "deep and mischievious (with slight beed of deviousness)" look in my eye. I have been noticing a number of shifts in my perception lately, to "nothingness" and "non-meaningful" or "non-dualistic" feelings from identification with forms, but only very slightly. I've been listening to this overnight the psat few nights: http://www.mind-tek.com/html/ultra_meditation_system.html#UM and during the day as well. I didn't really know what doing those things meant, and it made me feel more weird than happy. It is slightly happiness-inducing though to hear your interpretation of them. But it's quick to subside in lieu of the dream I had last night. I am also becoming much more aware of my feelings, and the effects my thoughts have on them. I also notice a lot more attention from other people coming to me - like if I am with people, or if I am in an area with lots of people, the attention of people who newly look in my direction is immediately drawn to me, and I notice people are going more an dmore out of their way to look at me.. Odd...

Small Dream, I am not going to argue with you further. If what you have works for you then great, but we are not interested. Best wishes.

Small Dream, First our experiences will not be taken seriously, we might as well claim alien abduction. Believing this requires seeing it firsthand for yourself. Were I told what I would experience I would have left in disbelief, and never returned. Next without any doubt, our experiences will be used as ammo against us in any conversation here. Finally what you are talking about isn't in the ballpark of what we are talking about, not even close. About sharing, yes we really are trying to do that, but it is not possible to share publicly in an environment as hostile and as toxic as this one. We had to create a private forum, and we have to go to absurd lengths to screen out the trolls, and mentally deranged people. You say you used to "believe the books too", no we don't want anyone believing books. We want people who will examine the video of John's investigation with scientists and medical doctors present to rule out fraud, and put in enough effort to see for themselves. We don't want anyone believing anything on faith, or because someone else, or some book says so. Also about the book recommendations, thanks but not interested unless you can present at least as much evidence as exists for MoPai for the system or teacher.

KYE HO! Listen with joy! Investment in samsara is futile; it is the cause of every anxiety. As worldly involvement is pointless, seek the heart of reality! One realizes joy only after one lets go of the need for joy. Need that arises from ordinary knowledge longs for things that it believes it does not have. In reality, everything already is; there is no lack, only beliefs that conceal abundance. Need also attracts more to need. If I say, "I need money," the universe doesn’t bring money, it brings more circumstances to need money. The essence of reality is akin to physics’ observation of nonlocality or universal correlation, that is, the understanding that everything in nature is instantaneously connected with and affected by everything else. Bell’s theorem showed experimentally that this is so. If A is instantly aware of where B is, even though they may be located at opposite ends of the universe, this implies that A and B, although perceived as different, have some fundamental sameness. Such a phenomenon upsets science, and scientists ridicule universal correlations as astrological superstition or spiritual nonsense. From a duality point of view, all phenomena are interdependent on all other phenomena, both form and emptiness. That understanding is as a gateway to the essence of reality. One taste of the relationship between form and emptiness is like becoming lucid within a dream, becoming aware that it is only a dream. To pursue the essence of reality is to attract to yourself that which you cannot leave and that which cannot leave you. Only that which is permanent cannot leave you. Permanence is uncovered in the present. You may have heard the term power of the now. All power, all energy, all form, and all emptiness arises from the now. Not the perceived present. All perception is in the past. In the transcending of mind’s dualities is supreme vision; In a still and silent mind is supreme meditation; In spontaneity is supreme activity; And when all hopes and fears have died, the goal is reached. Balance can only be realized in the timeless now of undivided, clear light. Energy and mass do not and cannot exist outside time. There is no now in time. The now is like a still fulcrum upon which time and energy move interdependently with space. Understanding this shifts our ability to use attention and intention to the highest perfection. A profound shift is illustrated in Harry Nilsson’s fable of Oblio’s leaving the Land of Point, where everyone was required by law to have a point, and everything had to have a point.

1.The Ultimate Teaching cannot be taught through the senses, however, by metamorphesizing a winged inner sense, metasensory Gnowing can reveal, this mystery to the Heart of our Essence. 2.Space is not understood, but merely perceived as That, which is filled and unfilled with form; the Ultimate Teaching is not dependent on object-ivity, the Whole can only be realized through Wholeness. 3.can a hole be defined by what's around it? that's not describing the hole; likewise, Wholeness is unrecognized outside itself, concepts and forms obscured through illusion. 4.to have a center there must be an edge, as the ambits dissolve, the center disperses with it; the here becomes meaningless without a there, then the truth of Mind is no longer unfamiliar. 5.what shape and colour is a banana? absorbing all spectral light and reflecting yellow doesn't make it yellow, while under a microscope, neither has it a shape, until we think one is there; the Mind's essence is beyond shape and form. 6.the predispositions of a thousand eons is incapable of concealing the Still HeartLight of Life; similiarly, the self-imposed cycle of suffering has no power to cloak the HeartLight of Mind's Essence. 7.there is no void nor vaccum in space, it is either defined or undefined; although the true essence of Mind is Light, that StillCauselessLight cannot be seen, only gnown. 8.the essence of Mind resembles space, in that it embraces all that is perceived; Rest, and Be a Silent Witness, for through Love's Stillness, all worlds dissolve. 9.look at the body/form through a microscope, the Mind which you do not see, transcends that Duality; Rest Effortlessly upon the hidden jewel that's you, Letting Go of object-iveness uncovers the Ultimate Teaching. 10.the HeartLight of the Ultimate Teaching cannot be revealed through New Age discourses or preceptual Scriptures, neither from the Mantravada, Paramitas or Tripitaka; the HeartLight of Mind is shrouded by concepts and whimsy's. 11.attachment to morals or immorals cloaks HeartLight's resplendence, yet by holding ones tongue still, the intellect quiets its fears and hopes; then the Causeless fulcrum is embraced, and the efforts of Duality's struggling seesaw vanish. 12.free from the bondage of beliefs, the fiction of discourse and Scripture become apparent; the Ultimate Teaching unbounds the bonds of self-repression, useless suffering and useless pleasure fad away, and the DiamondLight of the Ultimate Teaching glistens authentically. 13.ancestral fear driven zealots deride the Ultimate Teaching, theirs is a life not experienced directly, always viewed from a predisposed past and anticipatory future; Real Compassion and Teachers do not avoid, when either touches your Heart, ecstasy will unfurl. 14.Joy is realized only by Letting Go of the desire for Joy; desires arise from ordinary knowledge, they want for things which are not; In Reality, everything already is. 15.transcending the effects of Duality, all struggle ceases, the Still Nowness of Life reveals the HeartLight of Mind; embraced by zero, the origin of ecstasy where fear filled pasts and hope laden futures never existed. 16.Mind and Truth are synonymous to seek truth is to believe there is a lie; the intent of a path is to get, not to Let Go. 17.Enslaved to illusion and its transient conditions, Duality, is like a projection on a theaters screen; belief in the dream entanges the believer in a space-time construct, yet nature's melody does not exist outside of things. 18.renouncing all social and moral rules, liking nothing, hating nothing, and repiring in amoral innocense; aware of Effortlessness is the Sly Man's way to uncovering who we are; walking without footprints, the Ultimate Teaching is realized. 19.we divide life into self and not self, the here and there, subject and object; and then try to intregrate illusion with reality; Enlightenment is the awareness that there is no Duality. 20.Light is not seen, only the conditions which keep it obscure are seen; the Light at the Heart of Essence has no beginning nor end; zero dimension, razer of logic, is the Holder of the Whole, through Original Mind, the illusion of motion is evident. 21.Truth is not a path, but a Stillness, a passivity not realized through concepts; concepts are derived and inferred from perception, perception validates only illusion, not Truth. 22.there is nothing to discover, but only to uncover, positive and negative do not exist outside intellect; all situations are neutral and impersonal, in CauselessNowness the Ultimate Teaching becomes clear. 23.Perception sees itself as the center of the universe blindly seeking a complete unification with separation; identification with the universe is an attachment to the dream. 24.Divested cogitation can gaze upon the Original Thought, divesting useless suffering invites Peace, divesting useless happiness welcomes Love; fear clings to past as hope clings to future. 25.The nature of a river meanders, reposes, curves and winds, yet because Nowness is believed to be useless, predisposition demands that the current follow you, instead of you flow-ing with it, through that behavior, fulfillment remains elusive. 26.Triggering transformational experience is not difficult; Connected Breathing, when activated, can jump-start an atrophied thymus, Fixed Gazes, with auric vision, can open time to be seen as one, holding the tongue still, can bring Stillnes to thought. 27.Through unfeigned surrender, HeartLight itself, resplendently springs its metanoia; clear rapture coalesces from tranquility and insight, a continuum of awakenings dawn real Compassion, thus Birthing Human Beingness; Ascension is merely the Letting Go of the descension. 28.Then gaining long-life and eternal youth, waxing like the moon, Radiant and clear, with the strength of a lion, You will quickly gain mundane power and supreme enlightenment. May this Ultimate Teaching, Remain in the hearts of fortunate beings. Tilopa (translate by VMarco, 1997)

The no-dream state may come for years and then without what might be assumed to be a slide backward some dreams may ventilate in order to show where work must be done. This is particularly true just prior to certain bodies transforming. At these points the embodiment is aware of the needs and events though not clearly the outcomes. Often only a light new awareness of an "obstacle" results in its dissipation.

楞伽經 一切佛語心品之三 云何三昧樂正受意生身，謂第三第四第五地，三昧樂正受故，種種自心寂靜，安住心海，起浪識相不生，知自心現境界，性非性，是名三昧樂正受意生身。 Who can find the translation of this part? This means the first stage of 意生身 start from the fifth land. the fifth Buddhisatva is very still in his heart sea and stay there. No conscious waves there. Knowing everything of his own heart. Xin in is not xin. This is 楞伽經（梵文：लंकावतारसूत्र Lankāvatāra-sūtra) dreams are the waves of consciousness. in fifth buddhisatva , no consciousness waves, so no dreams. We can not [guess] sutra. And we must practice to prove the sutra. We should not guess what it said or misunderstand it. actually, the first land buddhisatva already start to have no dreams. If one still has dream, he has consciousness activities, it is impossible to get into the first land. he just stay in 欲界（梵文：कामधातु，kāma-dhātu）