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Isn't this the most wondrous lesson to learn in life? To do by Not Doing? This mindset removes all anxiety from anything, as far as I can see. Making one's self available in basic conscious awareness. What you describe as the Great Mystery could also be called Latency. I always go back to the Oak being in the Acorn. The blueprint is there always. The manifestation takes its time. Your observations about the relativity of our senses in comparison to external objects is wonderful. A rock is hard because our skin is soft - so nicely and simply said. Looking at page 33, there is a paragraph: "This space, since it cannot be injured, is invulnerable. Since space cannot be conqured or destroyed, it isi ndestructible. Since space abides as the basis for the unfolding of the world of appearances and possibilities, it is authentic. Since space cannot be altered by flaws or positive qualities, it is incorruptible. Sicne space is free of transition or change, it is stable. Since space completely permeates even the tiniest sub-atomic particle, it is in all ways unobstructed. and since nothing whatsoever can damage it, space is in all ways invincible." As I was reading this, it reminded me of a balloon (or, if you prefer, a bellows, as it would say in the TTC) The balloon is there whether or not there is air in it. It is by breath inflating the balloon that manifestations take their rise. I sometimes think of the universe (as produced by the big bang) as being the other side of a white dwarf. Maybe the universe just breathes its manifestations in and out. This is an interesting paragraph (page 47). "You may think that the relative validity of dream images is not equal to that of waking appearances. But think of all the dream experiences and waking experiences from your birth until the present - the activities and occupations, the effort and striving, the saving and planning. Consider whether these are equal. If you examine them closely, without considerering the short term versus the long term or more versus fewer occurrences of such experiences, you will arrive at the decision that they are equal." This seems to be saying that our dreams and our physical life are one and the same. I guess they would be - it's all thought ! All we have to do to understand this is to remove the concept of time and the concept of quantity (more vs. fewer) to see that this is the case. We spend 'more' of our 'time' in the waking hours. We sit at the intersection of Time and Space to experience manifestation. Note: Actually, I'm finding that trying to follow the outline is a little cumbersome. I've taken to just picking out interesting paragraphs in the book

Thank you Seatle! I almost forgot about TWR's FB teachings. By a weird coincidence I have time today to watch his live teaching as I burned my foot and therefore I can't get to my qigong practice. Life is a funny thing sometimes. Thank you Steven for your encouragment. I have already managed several lucid dreams, however the lucidity was fairly weak and only in one I have managed to do sth in the dream I wanted. Well guess now it is a good time to focus more on developing lucidity.

"London bridge is falling down...." As a man of Ulster Irish descent, I shall say brilliant! what goes around, comes around, watch it fall, and feel nothing. However the issue is larger then Lizzies England, if men and women of Aryan genetic stock don't stop pussy footing around and realise there is no such as equality in nature, it is rather the search for the lowest common denominator the race/s is in SERIOUS threat of being bred out of existence by an alien stream. "We are the Allahvite flesh-golems - you are spellbound, you're leaders are whores, resistance is futile, thou shalt be assimilated!!!!!" * "This truly is a prophecy that has and is coming true today 145 years after it was penned by D.W. Nash. Apart from it being a prophecy of England's doom it is also a message of hope and it is important to stress this. England or the English in some form or another will survive..." Tom Hill was in the saddle One bright November morn, The echoing glades of Guiting Wood Where ringing with his horn. The diamonds of the hoar-frost Were sparkling in the sun, Upon the falling leaves the drops Were shining one by one. The hare lay on the fallow, The robin caroled free; The linnet and the yellow finch Twittered from tree to tree. In stately march the sable rook Followed the clanking plough; Apart their watchful sentinel Cawed from the topmost bough. Peeped from her hole the field-mouse Amid the fallen leaves; From twig to twig the spider Her filmy cable weaves. The wavings of the pine boughs The squirrel’s from disclosure; And through the purple beech-tops The whirring pheasant rose. The startled rabbit scuttered Across the grassy ride; High in mid-air the hovering hawk Wheeled round in circles wide. The freshest wind was blowing O’er groves of beech and oak, And through the boughs of larch and pine The struggling sunbeam broke. The varied tints of autumn Still lingered on the wood, And on the leaves the morning sun Poured out a golden flood. Soft, fleecy clouds were sailing Across the vault of blue; A fairer hunting morning No huntsman ever knew. All nature seemed rejoicing That glorious morn to see; All seemed to breathe a fresher life - Beast, insect, bird, and tree. But sounds and sight of beauty Fell dull on eye and ear; The huntsman’s heart was heavy His brow oppresses with care. High in his stirrups raised he stood, And long he gazed around; And breathlessly and anxiously He listened for a sound. But nought he heard save song of bird, Or jay’s discordant cry; Or when among the tree-tops The wind went murmuring by. No voice of hound, no sound of horn; The woods around were mute, As though the earth had swallowed up His comrades-man and brute. The thought, ‘I must essay to find My hounds at any cost; A huntsman who has lost his hounds Is but a huntsman lost.’ The round he turned his horse’s head, And shook his bridle free, When he was struck by an aged fox That sat beneath a tree. He raised his eyes in glad surprise, That huntsman keen and bold; But there was in that fox’s look That made his blood run cold. He raised his hand to touch his horn, And shout a ‘Tally-ho!’ But, mastered by that fox’s eye, His lips refused to blow, For he was grim and gaunt of limb, With age all silvered o’er; He might have been an Artic fox Escaped from Greenland’s shore. But age his vigor had not tamed, Not dimm’d his sparkling eye, Which shone with an unearthly fire - A fire could never die. And thus the huntsman he addressed, In tones distinct and clear, Who heard as they who in a dream The fairies’ music hear. ‘Huntsman,’ he said­a sudden thrill Through all the listener ran, To hear a creature of the wood Speak like a Christian man ­ ‘Last of my race, to me ‘tis given The future to unfold, To speak the words which never yet Spake fox of mortal mould. ‘Then print my words upon your heart, And stamp them on your brain, That you to others may impart My prophecy again. ‘Strong life is yours in manhood’s prime, Your cheek with heat is red; Time has not laid his finger yet In earnest on your head. ‘But ere your limbs are bent with age, And ere your locks are grey, The sport that you have loved so well Shall long have passed away. In vain shall generous Colmore Your hunt consent to keep; In vain the Rendcombe baronet With gold your stores shall heap. In vain Sir Alexander, And Watson Keen in vain, O’er the pleasant Cotswold hills The joyous sport maintain. ‘Vain all their efforts: spite of all, Draws nigh the fatal morn, When the last Cotswold fox shall hear The latest huntsman’s horn. ‘Yet think not, huntsman, I rejoice To see the end so near; Nor think the sound of horn and hound To me a sound of fear. ‘In my strong youth, which numbers now Full many a winter back, How scornfully I shook my brush Before the Berkeley pack. ‘How oft from Painswick Hill I’ve seen The morning mist uncurl, When Harry Airis blew the horn Before the wrathful Earl. ‘How oft I’ve heard the Cotswolds’ cry As Turner cheered the pack, And laughed to see his baffled hounds Hang vainly on my track. ‘Then think not that I speak in fear, Or prophesy in hate; Too well I know the doom reserved For all my tribe by fate. ‘Too well I know, by wisdom taught The existence of my race O’er all wide England’s green domain Is bound up with Chase. ‘Better in early youth and strength The race for life to run, Than poisoned like the noxious rat, Or slain by felon gun. ‘Better by wily sleight and turn The eager hound to foil, Thank slaughtered by each baser churl Who yet shall till the soil. ‘For not upon these hills alone The doom of sport shall fall; O’er the broad face of England creeps The shadow on the wall. ‘The years roll on: old manors change, Old customs lose their sway; New fashions rule; the grandsire’s garb Moves ridicule to-day. ‘The woodlands where my race has bred Unto the axe shall yield; Hedgerow and copse shall cease to shade The ever-widening field. ‘The manly sports of England Shall vanish on by one; The manly blood of England In weaker veins shall run. ‘The furzy down, the moorland heath, The steam plough shall invade; Nor park nor manor shall escape ­ Common, nor forest glade. ‘Degenerate sons of manlier sires To lower joys shall fall; The faithless lore of Germany, The guilded vice of Gaul. ‘The sports of their forefathers To baser tastes shall yield; The vices of the town displace The pleasures of the field. ‘For swiftly o’er the level shore The waves of progress ride; The ancient landmarks one by one Shall sink beneath the tide. ‘Time ­ honoured creeds and ancient faith, The Altar and the Crown, Lordship’s hereditary right, Before that tide go down. ‘Base churls shall mock the mighty names Writ on the roll of time; Religion shall be held a jest, And loyalty a crime. ‘No word of prayer, no hymn of praise Sound in the village school; The people’s education Utilitarians rule. ‘In England’s ancient pulpits Lay orators shall preach New creeds, and free religions Self ­ made apostles teach. ‘The peasants to their daily tasks In surly silence fall; No kindly hospitalities In farmhouse or in hall. ‘Nor harvest feast nor Christmas tide Shall farm or manor hold; Science alone can plenty give, The only god is Gold. “The homes where love and peace should dwell. Fierce politics shall vex. And unsexed woman strive to prove Herself the coarser sex. ‘Mechanics in their workshop Affairs of State decide; Honour and truth ­ old fashioned words ­ The noisy mobs deride. ‘The statesmen that should rule the realm Coarse demagogues displace; The glory of a thousand years Shall end in foul disgrace. The honour of old England, Cotton shall buy and sell, And hardware manufacturers Cry “Peace! ­ lo! All is well.” Trade shall be held the only good, And gain the sole device; The statesman’s maxim shall be peace, And peace at any price. “Her army and her navy Britain shall cast aside; Soldiers and ships are costly things, Defence an empty pride. The German and the Muscovite Shall rule the narrow seas; Old England’s flag shall cease to float In triumph on the breeze The footstep of the invader Then England’s shore shall know, While home­bred traitors give the hand To England’s every foe. ‘Disarmed, before the foreigner, The knee shall humbly bend, And yield the treasures that she lacked The wisdom to defend. ‘But not for aye-­yet once again, When purged by fire and sword, The land her freedom shall regain, To manlier thoughts restored. “Taught wisdom by disaster, England shall learn to know That trade is not the only gain Heaven gives to man below. ‘The greed for gold departed, The golden calf cast down, Old England’s sons again shall raise The Altar and the Crown. “Rejoicing seas shall welcome Their mistress once again; Again the banner of St. George Shall rule upon the main. “The blood of the invader Her pastures shall manure; His bones unburied on her fields For monuments endure. ‘Again in hall and homestead Shall joy and peace be seen, And smiling children raise again The maypole on the green. ‘Again the hospitable board Shall groan with Christmas cheer, And mutual service bind again The peasant and the peer. “Again the smiling hedgerow Shall field from field divide; Again among the woodlands The scarlet troop shall ride.’ Again it seemed that aged fox More prophecies would say, When sudden came upon a wind, ‘Hark forrard! Gone away!’ The listener started from his trance ­ He sat there all alone; That well-known cry had burst the spell, The aged fox was gone. The huntsman turned. He spurred his steed, And to the cry he sped; And, when he thought upon that fox, Said naught, but shook his head.

Hi, i was interested in lucid dreams before i even knew about qigong, and following certain actions like "reality checking" during the day helps alot. well some say that the qigong, or meditation effects the dreams , more lucidity in the day brings more into the dreams. Personally i never noticed qigong by itself to bring on lucidity, the only thing that did for me was conscious effort. i have heard there are specefic types of "sleeping qigong" practices that would work with this stuff, but i think these teachings are harder to come by (at least in my area) This thread might be of interest you. And the book "tibetan yogas of dream and sleep" goes pretty deep into the subject. And not just how to do it but why to do it. Steve kindly provided free links to files of the author in the above thread.

im usually the last person to know something about me O_o!!! hell, tell ya what, everyone ELSE sure thinks they know why i am a failure at life, still single, and have no kids! just ask them, they'll tell ya! It's my facial hair, or my hair is too long, or i dont have a job, or i dont have a car. i've heard them all. Only thing i havent heard is a genuine 100% true "i love you" from a significant other. i stopped trying to find somethign taht doesnt exist outside teh movies. I thought, at first, "let it come to me". but if "it" doesnt exist, i will be waiting for my life to start until i die. so i guess it is a lose-lose situation. I gave up on other people, not on my hopes of having a family..... problem is, other peopel are kind of required in the deal... and so far, the only valid people i meet are online, mostly HERE on TTB! All you ladies here would peobably be worthwhile company. The girls in my life? Not so much..... irritatingly self centered most often than not. ... or taken/married/etc... Or related XD I had a dream come true once... well until it turned out she wanted nothing to do with me.... never even dated, but to this day, i cant shake her face, or the dream where i "first met" her.... It's THAT which inspires suicide more than anything..... god's got a sick sense of humor! edit: response II: Shen, there isnt a "dont like" button. no offense lol cuz i really DONT LIKE "patience"! LOL being paitent means: Letting your dreams and hopes dissolve between your fingertips, letting "bubba" have his wy with you in the cell, letting "them" have your every desire and want, never complaining about how FUCKED you are, and alwys smiling when life tells you to bend over and take it up the ass... I cant do any of those things, that is why i am not patient.

I experienced something somewhat similar to that during one of my ayahuasca trips - it was the most profound one. It was horrible in a way. It felt like I was losing my mind, and unfortunately there was no message or anything giving me confidence and trust to allow it to happen. It felt like I would have to die completely, to stop existing, in order to give in to it. Weird was that I wasn't scared shitless, but in utter despair. That was because I experienced it as invitable true reality. There was no way in hell I could have escaped that truth, so I couldn't run away, thus no fear. But whenever I get a mild flashback into those realms, it DOES scare me a lot. Feels like reality theatening to collapse and take me with it down the drain. It's like I am wishing to practice slowly, to keep approaching it, you know, getting used to it, getting better at dealing with it, and then some time later it hits me unprepared, very mildly, and I'm like FFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK! I'm still wondering what lies beyond, whether I was supposed to do something differently, what's the point? Very confusing, and hearing other people taking ayahuasca and getting insights that help them with their daily problems in life, man, that makes me jealous. Are they more humble? Or are they more spiritually advanced than me without knowing? I envy people who can make profound steps like this without totally freaking out. It sucks to have so much fear blocking the process. That one guy, who practiced shaolin, he said at one point during the trip he felt like he was dying, and thought: "Alright, if it has to be, then I will die." How does one do that?! Back to the unity thing: Yes, one can try to describe it, but eventually the mind has to capitulate. To me it was like even infinity, while not imaginable for the mind, is still a time-based concept. The stuff that's really freaking the mind out is not necessarily the idea of something without beginning and end, but the idea of there being no time, thus no beginning, no end and no progress, no dimension. Everything that could possible exist is the ever-existing ocean of consciousness and whatever we perceive is just a narrowed focus and bringing things into shape. The more you search, the less you find, because all of reality is just imagination, a dream, and the dream does not exist, because the dreamer is awake at the same time. There's only being awake, and we are not so much asleep, but awakened all the time beneath the surface. We have that thin protective layer that keeps us from realizing that "we" are all "I" and "I" am god and all that exists. How does one make pracical use of an experience like that?! There might be subtle changes in personality, but basically, nothing changed. I mean, I am no longer aiming for immortality in the sense I used to think, because there is no death, there is nothing that can die. It also made me consider that yearning for nivana is totally absurd, since we are all connected to nirvana all the time, and since there is a reason for us being 'here', a reason that we came up with in the god-state, and since when you 'go back' to nirvana, you will simply continue to reincarnate, since there's no alternative for a singular entity anyway, the only purpose left is to accept the experience here on the physical plane. We want this, but we intentionally forgot. But I cannot accept that. It's not useful for the experience from my limited standpoint. Keen on improving my life, getting an experience like that, cryptical and out-there stuff and so much added confusion, it kinda sucks. And even if I have some success, it's temporary. It will eventually be a dead end. But giving up (in the sense that I can comprehend) doesn't get things done either.

Yes it does sound intersting , Ya Mu tell us more about it please! Curious to hear if there is anything you would reccomend/can share to do practise wise within the dream or whilst becoming awake / lucid within the dream or plane of being ?

Talking about PART TWO; Revealing the Meaning of the Main Text as the Purpose of the Undertaking. The first major section, Reaching a decision through view, has four subsections. Mentioning the first one: A. Reaching the definitive conclusion that all phenomena are inexpressible emptiness. (pg. 189) 'Personal identity' is merely an impression; underlying the personal identity impression is the awareness of an underlying consciousness, the concept of "I". the "I" dwells nowhere in the body - that must be transcended. (I think again of your idea of the space between the thoughts). the other side of this is to reach a conclusion regarding the nonexistence of the identity of phenomena. To try and place labels on things; one can see the physical manifestation of a thing's properties, but it seems that the totality of any object is more of a 'verb' that is descriptive of function rather than anything that actually exists in perpetuity. To me, this goes hand in hand with the concept of there not really being any 'time' either. Because our brains are laid out to see in a linear fashion, we are actually looking at phenomena which is timeless - there is no before, during or after. It's all happening now, only we're watching a 3-d movie without 3-d glasses. In order to understand the nature of a phenomena, one must include the Idea for the phenomena, but without the time-interference; rather, as a totality of yesterday, today, and tomorrow. Somehow this Dream is laid out that we are placed at the intersection of the illusion of Time and Space Row row row your boat Gently down the stream, Merrily merrily merrily merrily Life is but a Dream (Steve - I'm going to Calif. for a week to move my mom into the dementia ward at her assisted living place. I probably won't be online for a while - talk to you when I get back).

name='sree' timestamp='1357062985' post='389175'] "Ok, you more or less see Lennon’s goal the same way as Marblehead: it works only for the individual because there are too many people doing their own things. Granted, forcing others to do your thing is not your Way (道 i.e.Tao). Well, I don’t think that is the Way of the Tao Te Ching either. What about a society of one, namely, you? Think about it. You said Lennon’s goal is realistic for an individual. Is this a half-assed belief or did you examine Lennon’s manifesto seriously and came up with the realization that it is not a silly ditty by a pot-head but practicable and actionable wisdom? Is John Lennon's dream practicable and consistent with the teaching of the Tao Te Ching?" You ask a lot of questions. Is John Lennons dream practical? No, if you give up your possessions right now. You'd have problems, so would I. I like my stuff. Thinking everyone else will give up theres is to coin your phrase pot headed. Governments have tried it, it usually ends as an economic and moral disaster. Is his song consistent w/ Tao Te Ching.. Uh, ones a deep philosophy hitting dozens of areas, the other is a short ditty ode to communism, they're in such different realms its hard to say. Do you learn about the TTC from the song? Not really, so I'd say no. Did he believe it? Obviously not, since he didn't do it or live by it. I like Lennon. Strangely I read a book decades ago about hippies living on the rumor that Lennon was going to buy an island and found a utopia. They believed it, didn't happen. Old book, Season of the Witch maybe.

Sorry if I have misunderstood anything you said. At the same there is no separation between underlying awareness and phenomena, no observer/observation apart from observed. In the beginning phases of insight, Awareness may be seen as the background space behind everything, the witness or observer of everything, i.e. a transpersonal Self. But later, non-dual awareness is realised, which has no reference point, either personal or transpersonal. There is no self, big, small or otherwise. It knows Itself. There is no localized sense of knowing standing apart from what is known. There's just the entire phenomenological world, which is self-aware. Everything, the scenery, the sound, the taste, the sensation of the floor, the smell, even the thought is 'aware' where they are without a separate experiencer. Thus, no 'self' not only means no identification with personality -- it means there is really no observer and no transpersonal Self or Witness either! No experiencer! In seeing tree there is just tree, no seer. In hearing sound, just sound, no hearer. Everything is self-shining consciousness. As I mentioned earlier my friend has discussed the phases of insights he went through in Thusness/PasserBy's Seven Stages of Experience David Carse: "There is only One. There is not ever in any sense many, or even two. All perception of distinction and separation, of duality, and therefore of what is known as physical reality, is a mind-created illusion, of the nature of a dream. What you think you are, a separate individual entity, is part of this illusion. You are not the doer of any action or the thinker of any thought. Events happen, but there is no doer. All there is, is Consciousness. That is what You truly are." David Carse: After the jungle, there is an intensely odd and very beau-tiful quality to the experience of life. In one sense I can only describe everything, all experience, as having a certain emptiness. This is the sense in which everything used to matter, to be vital and important, and is now seen as unreal, empty, not important, an illusion. Once it is seen that the beyond-brilliance of Sat Chit Ananda is all that is, the dream continues as a kind of shadow. Yet, at the same moment that all of what appears in the dream is experi-enced as empty, it is also seen as more deeply beautiful and perfect than ever imagined, precisely because it is not other than Sat Chit Ananda, than all that is. Everything that does not matter, that is empty illusion, is at the same time itself the beyond-brilliance, the perfect beauty. Somehow there is a balance; these two apparently opposite aspects do not cancel each other out but complement each other. This makes no 'sense,' yet it is how it is. There is one tradition within Advaita which says that maya, the manifestation of the physical universe, is over-laid or superimposed on Sat Chit Ananda. I'm no scholar of these things, and can only attempt to describe what is seen here; and the Understanding here is that there is no question of one thing superimposed on another. Maya, the manifestation, the physical universe, is precisely Sat Chit Ananda, is not other than it, does not exist on its own as something separate to be overlaid on top of something else. This is the whole point! There is no maya! The only reason it appears to have its own reality and is commonly taken to be real in itself is because of a misperceiving, a mistaken perception which sees the appearance and not What Is. This is the meaning of Huang Po's comment that "no distinction should be made between the Absolute and the sentient world." No distinction! There is only One. There is not ever in any sense two. All perception of distinction and separation, all perception of duality, and all perception of what is known as physical reality, is mind-created illu-sion. When a teacher points at the physical world and says, "All this is maya," what is being said is that what you are seeing is illusion; what all this is is All That Is, pure Being Consciousness Bliss Outpouring; it is your perception of it as a physical world that is maya, illusion. Dr. David Loy (a different david, a Zen Teacher and Philosopher): [T]his phenomenon can be described either as no-consciousness or as all-consciousness. Early Buddhism chooses the former, claiming that consciousness is nothing more than all those things that are experienced. Sankara opts for the latter, insisting that all those things are the manifestations of consciousness. Buddhism says there is no self, there is only the world (dharmas); Sankara says the world is the Self. To say that there is no self, or that everything is the self, are then equally correct - or false, depending on how one looks at it. Both descriptions amount to the same thing. What is clear in each case is that there is no longer a duality between an object that is observed and a consciousness that observes it, or between the external world and the self which confronts it. ... Both are attempts to describe nonduality, and because each makes absolute a relative term, neither is more or less satisfactory than the other. ... Just as our usual understanding of experience is dualistic, so is the language that expresses this understanding. An attempt to describe the nondual experience will naturally tend to eliminate one or the other term. ... So there are two paradoxes; to shrink to nothing is to become everything, and to experience everything as One is again equivalent to nothing ... States are everchanging and can be lost, can't they? Anything gained can be lost. And anything that can be lost is not ultimately 'valuable'. Including altered states of consciousness. What the 'enlightenment traditions' are pointing out is 'what is already the case'. It is our every moment ordinary awareness. Do you for a moment stop seeing, hearing, etc? Awareness cannot stop functioning, is already always the case and is not the result of development or cultivation, but whether we notice it is another matter. Awareness is always already spacious, only pinpointed fixation on particular patterns of thoughts and feelings makes us 'feel' constricted. Awareness is always already non-dual, due to deep conditioning we are always projecting subject-object separation. Awareness is also not the same as focused attention or concentration. Awareness is effortlessly happening right now, whether you like it or not, and whether you are paying attention or not. When causes and conditions is, manifestation is, when manifestation is, Awareness is. Naturally, sounds are effortlessly being heard, smells are effortlessly being smelled, even if the smell or sound is unpleasant and you try to avoid it, it's being awared. While paying attention to the breath, something still hears sounds. That is Buddha-Nature. It is the sum of all our parts, that which sees, hears, feels and tastes all at once as One Reality. Before you think that this awareness is a 'thing' -- a Mirror or a Witness, it's not separate -- it's just sound hearing, scenery seeing, it's not a something tangible (a Mirror or a Witness) yet is vividly manifesting. Hence: awareness is not experienced through the result of contrived effort, but is self-evident when the mind is at rest, through relaxing one's pinpointed fixation to our mind and body or any particular objects, opening up to the vast vivid openness (which is already the case) through which all phenomena flows through without obstruction. States are conditioned, awareness is unconditioned. Whatever you experience doesn't affect the presence of awareness. Being confused doesn't make awareness any less. Being calm, relaxed, or 'enlightened' doesn't make awareness any more. I like what John Astin said: "We often think that the appearance of certain things such as distress, seeking, struggling, or confusion is somehow evidence that awareness is not here. But actually everything that appears, regardless of its content, is the vivid proof of awareness, every appearance the perfect evidence that awareness is here." So what is enlightenment if not an altered state? It's simply the realisation of what already and always is.

After speaking with few other people and reading this thread entirely, I can confirm that I cannot visualize things the way they do with clarity. This was surprising to them and it was surprising to me. So, add me to the list also! When I came across the phrase daydreaming, few times in last year. I had to lookup the Wiki pages and dictionary to make sure what exactly it meant and how it is different from night dreams. Now, this explain why. Something similar to daydreaming happens to me with vague visualizations. I call this absent mindedness or caught up in thoughts. I can't daydream like how it is described. ditto.... I don't have to add a single word, the above matched my experience 100%. You saved me from typing lot of things . This matches my experience, more or less perfectly. However, you recall one dream from high school. I can recall none. ditto.... once again matches my experience, the image being indistinct and changing to different types matches perfectly. I would have explained this in my own words. There are many images from past that I can recall with low/moderate amount of clarity. It is still nowhere as clear as others describe. However, the things I have not seen, like this novel example or the red ball, it is extremely hard to picture an image for these. When I do, it is cloudy, vague, indistinct and changes to different types as you mentioned. It is as you described on the first quote above, related to how I construct things until I have the necessary information. @Jeff, feel free to do whatever / share, Thanks. I am not able to explain it in terms of chakra or in detail as how Daeluin does. As Daeluin mentioned, my dreams are also getting sharper lately. I have had lucid dreaming at times in the past few years, and some other experiences on dreams. I am still not quite sure, if this affects learning in anyway. There is a picture puzzle in this link: https://www.newscientist.com/article/2083706-my-minds-eye-is-blind-so-whats-going-on-in-my-brain/ I think this is a great image puzzle that might help determine, if someone has this issue. I had a tough time imagining the picture and to find which are the rotated images of the picture down on that page. However, I did find the right answer before or at the same time, with the people who could picture the image. Later when I processed in mind to determine, how I did that, it was a revelation. My mind rapidly absorbed other details of the picture as thoughts, like angels in that picture, counting how many green and white tiles were there. When they asked later, which are the turned image of the that block, with the information such as angle, direction and with a really vague and unclear image (without any colors), I could find the answer. Thank you. I think this might very well be a possibility in my case. It feels like I had the ability to visualize as a child. I think, I lost the ability at some point of time, when I was a kid.

Good morning Marblehead, Unfortunately yes. You were immoral before. But apparently your corrupted past had dissipated quite nicely. Why? Peace & contentment are now within your grasp. Dream on - you are getting there (for your good work and repentance at TDB). At this juncture wuwei will serve you well as a polarised reborn again Taoist. A great weekend. - .LimA

After the live broadcast, the videos are saved. You can find links to the videos on this page. If you can't access them there, try Ocean of Wisdom. The only problem is they are not well organized on that site. That should change in the near future. The 5 part series on sleep yoga is there also. I'd suggest working with dream yoga first.

Fanatics have their dreams, wherewith they weave A paradise for a sect; the savage too From forth the loftiest fashion of his sleep Guesses at Heaven; pity these have not Trac'd upon vellum or wild Indian leaf The shadows of melodious utterance. But bare of laurel they live, dream, and die; For Poesy alone can tell her dreams, With the fine spell of words alone can save Imagination from the sable charm And dumb enchantment. Who alive can say, 'Thou art no Poet may'st not tell thy dreams?' Since every man whose soul is not a clod Hath visions, and would speak, if he had loved And been well nurtured in his mother tongue. Whether the dream now purpos'd to rehearse Be poet's or fanatic's will be known When this warm scribe my hand is in the grave. John Keats.

You're parroting your same old beliefs. I fully agree however,...that Spoilers like yourself saying someone is parroting is a personal truth of yours. C&P is only parroting in your dream perception. For those interested in the subject, that is, non-Spoilers, quotes bring a broader view from other sources that may have spent a lifetime observing something. Those like yourself and CowTow, are pretty much lost causes living in an illusory sentient dream world,...delaring how your empirical knowledge is superior to everyone else,...getting upset if anyone wishes to go beyond the sciential mind. Delusion likes company. Actually, at one time, considered your veils much thinner than CowTow's. Yet you continue to refuse refuge in any possible truth. That is how folks like yourself may eventually uncover truth, by looking at such as a possibility,...at which point. you reduce everything,...squeeze out the fiction so-to-say,...until you arrive at something that is true. In Buddhism, which yourself and CowTow understand little about, beyond what you were indoctrinated to believe, is a process of prajnaparamita, or perfection of prajna. Prajna has nothing to do with the accumulated knowledge you enjoy flaunting,...it doesn't arise from the 6 senses. I fully understanding why it doesn't arise from the 6 senses, however, enjoying quoting others, like the Eight foremost Bodhisattvas, to accentuate the discussion,...only to it ridiculed as parroting,...a truth suppressing tactic of sentient beings. I've been to Ixtlan many times,...sat in the plaza looking at auras. Never met Don Juan, but connected with others interested in truth realization. Didn't set out to spend time in Ixtlan,...it was merely the half-way point between my home in Playa los Meurtes and the great shopping at Guadalajara. The book was OK,...frankly, I found the Art of Dreaming the most rewarding,...of course, the other books needed to be grasped first. No surprise about your familiarity with the Casteneda books,...as a whole I don't recall the word love ever being mentioned. I am puzzled by your comments on Don Miguell Ruiz,...especially cultivating impeccability. I've seen no impeccability in your recent attacks on me, in now three different treads. Although I did observe much fear and suffering, and an attempt to suppress the dialogue,...instead of pursuing any semblance of impeccability.

This might be a superficial comment, but he should be able to distinguish the two states by the degree of awareness .. how 'real' it feels. And even if both had the same feel, I'd go for the state that lasts longer. If this tale isn't meant completely metaphorically only, then there should be a perceivable difference between the two states. If you're not sure what is dream and what waking ... go by the guideline that the more crazy/exciting/weird one is the dream. If you really can't tell both states apart ... maybe both is a dream. Or maybe both is 'real'!

I agree. I think it opens the door to a larger paradigm. And by providing a knee-jerk answer, you are just kicking it shut before you have a chance to step through it - like an armchair expert. I asked my friend this question, and she kept giving quick reflexive "answers," without any original thought. That was missing the point, IMO. But, I just couldn't get her to understand that. To go back to the dream analogy...I think any "reality test" could be performed in a dream. You could throw a ball at a baby and make it cry in a dream. You could do things and see how they affect your health. You could try various things and gauge them by your feedback. But no matter how consistent (or not) the results, if you wake up the next morning, you will ultimately realize it was still all an "illusion." And therefore everything you thought you "knew," was all merely imagined in the end. So, what if what we "know" as LIFE, is like that too? Is this what Buddha meant by AWAKENING?

This is a great question... I think it is worthwhile to back up and define what we mean by lineage in this instance. KL came from two sources. The Shang Ch'ing arts and Jenny lamb. I am in Max's Shang Ch'ing lineage and I have NEVER been visited by any unfriendlies. I had one encounter about 15 years ago (long before Max) where during meditation, I had an OBE and there was a woman in my room who spoke my name and the power in her voice scared me and I woke up and chased her out. She never came back. I wish I hadn't freaked out, I have no idea if she was there to help me or what. But, she has never come back. I've asked her to and still a no-show. Around the same time, I had a dream, (more like a memory that I assumed was a dream) where an alien (the big eyed kind) was peering around my bedroom door while I was sitting up in bed as though to say, "Who is this new Spirit Fighter?" I definitely got the vibe that it was just responding to the vibe from the practices and wanted to see where it was coming from. Just curiosity. Never came back. I have had dreams where I was taught by Sifu (the grandmaster). He was always friendly and helpful. Powerful, wierd and mind-blowing dreams, but never fearful. I accidently chased him away in a dream also, and he has not come back. In my experience, any of the Shang Ch'ing visitations have always been very respectful and never pushed my boundaries. I have never heard any students of Jenny's report any negative entities or viruses attacking them. So, the question is: Is it the practices? I think no. Is it the lineage? (Shang Ch'ing or Lamb) I think no. Is it Max and/or OUR personal psyches responding to Max? What does this say about the teacher student relationship when it comes to powerful spiritual practices? Lets' assume just for argument's sake that it IS Max projecting his stuff onto us, (I'm nnot saying it is one way or the other) But, If that is the case, I think we STILL have the power (Nay, the responsiblity) to reject what we don't want and protect ourselves and still keep the practice (If we choose). What is more important to each of us? The practice or the teacher? I believe we can isolate the practices from the teacher, but that means we need to take responsibility ourselves for what we allow into our psyches... In essence, we need to become our own teachers... I personally never bought into the whole lineage thing. Not that I don't accept that there is a lineage, just that, I never felt the need to have spiritual entities guide my practice. Sometimes, in KL, I got the feeling that some people were using the lineage aspect and the spiritual experiences and visitations in an escapist way. Like others, I had one experience with Max where he performed one of his "tricks" on me. I allowed it for a time, but after a couple of seconds, I also said "no." I was in complete control. After that, he didn't ask to try anything on me. I was only interested in the practices, not Max. I enjoyed the show, but it was never about him for me, it was about the practices. So, is it the practice, the lineage or just our psychic cooperation with Max or our psychological projections of Max? If it is the latter, then, that indicates to me that the practices are OK, but we either need to follow a teacher whom we feel safe with OR, separate ourselves from the psyche of the teacher. A fellow taoist friend of mine once told me, "When you ask for help from the immortals, always be sure that you say 'I ask for help from any immortals who are meant to work with me' because not all spirits know what they're doing or have our best interest at heart." So, I always say "Who are sent by my highest self to guide me." It seems to me that many in KL just allowed any old spirit to show up and do whatever they want without first setting the spiritual boundaries.

I had a good Dream last from spending time at the monastery. The dream was near a mind stream of bodhichitta, from the practice of Kalachakra a yogi can enter into different streams of consciousness. But what this means is that the dream was mostly in blue light. A small gathering of people had assembled. Amongst them was the Clear Wind Taoshih and Professor Lisa Randall. Prof. Randall was lecturing on higher dimensions and their use in understanding string theory. Prof. Randall had brought in an object that had eight pieces to it. The object was assembled on the table with six pieces, and with the other two pieces she was able to be on the other side of the room. Bi locating using technology. This is an example of super symmetry.

I'd say it all begins with emptiness. Training to have a quiet mind is thee prerequisite. Because there are the 5 thieves we begin by sitting with a simple object of concentration be it counting breaths, mantra, or mental trick of letting thoughts flow away of there own volition. From there we continue until we sit thoughtless for extended amounts of time. To me the goal is keeping that state in throughout the day. I think K. has described it beautifully. I think the practice of 'perceiving everything as a dream' is good if it keeps ones focus open and not caught up in maelstrom of thoughts, but reality is the chair really is a chair, you are looking at a computer screen right now, otherwise why the hell am I typing?? So its a useful practice but its not reality. In a lucid dream you can fly, in reality you can't. Strive for emptiness; thoughts, planning and logic are nifty tools, but they are not meant to be our every day state. We've confused our tools with our selves.

interesting thread, for many years, decennia really, i was like your wife. Unable to visualize ( although I did have dreams that were 'real' meaning i could give an description of the surroundings that were in my dream) some years ago something happened and from that moment on i was able to visualize, probably not as strong as some others but it was sort of amazing for me. i'm sure could train it quite easily now if I wanted. reading this thread i realize that as a child I was able to visualize too. And that I've lost that possibility after a traumatic experience. but of course i do not say that that is the reaon that your wife can't. but still, thought i should add my experienceto the thread

My point was not to disagree with you, as I am completely confident that you do have 3rd eye visions. It was more to make a finer differentiation, that in general it is not as simple as conscious or 3rd eye. That many would call it 3rd eye, but it is actually more like my anger example of a "local" subconscious translation of the energy in the mind. It is very common for those who are only open to the 4th or 5th chakra to feel/sense energy that they don't consciously comprehend and have the mind translate that into some vision (or vivid dream) before the are actually open at the 3rd eye. In particular, Spotless's friend story above describes it well. With great clarity it is a direct knowing of energy/light as there really is nothing to see. But for most, that energy reflect/translates into local mind and creates an "arising". All seeing is such a translation, with the difference that I am trying to describe being whether the underlying energy that is being translated is more at a "universal" consciousness level (like your teachers energy) or more a "local" mind-body level.

Most people are inconsiderate,...not purposefully,...they're just self-centered,...you can observe it right here at TTB. Most people are so caught up in a dream, and there is little, if any awareness of others. "All the joy the world contains Has come through wishing happiness for others. All the misery the world contains Has come through wanting pleasure for oneself." Shantideva It is not accurate that your neighbor bangs on the walls all day. Focus on when they do not,...and then, preferrably with a pressure-bass, blast noise towards their lair,..especially when they are watching their favorite mindless TV show, or having sex with themselves,...and train them to be aware of apartment living. Most important,...do it lovingly,...inconsiderate people are as sleep-walkers,...so aborbed in their own dream it's comical. You'll never wake them up,...only they can do that,...but you can play with them in a loving way,...no need to get upset with those who are asleep,...they're asleep.

How it is experienced is dependent on the "clarity" of the recieving person. Most do not have the capacity to consciously percieve the transmission, so the mind unconsciously translates it into a dream. Someone with greater clarity would experience seeing (and possibly hearing) the guru in deep consciousness (or astral). Someone with high clarity would directly receive the knowledge (but would not see anything). In general, those with high levels of clarity do not dream (they have made the unconscious conscious). If one does not "receive" transmission, it is either because they have not yet reached the clarity to do so, or the "transmitter" is not yet a true master, and only a teacher.

Me, too. OK, I do dream occasionally.