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stickling at sundown... has a pernicious effect on my dream yoga

I have no trouble agreeing with the bits I bolded .... but it doesnt mean spirituality has to go ... anywhere. 'Shut him down' ? Nah ... man , if I had him here we would be sitting around the fire pit out the back of the cabin and raving through the night .... ( but only on fanta ... I've been off the grog for a loooong time ). Oh .... I just cannot resist this (nothing personal ... it has just been sitting there waiting for the opportunity ; O melancholy Brothers, dark, dark, dark!O battling in black floods without an ark! O spectral wanderers of unholy Night! My soul hath bled for you these sunless years, With bitter blood-drops running down like tears: Oh dark, dark, dark, withdrawn from joy and light! My heart is sick with anguish for your bale;Your woe hath been my anguish; yea, I quail And perish in your perishing unblest. And I have searched the highths and depths, the scope Of all our universe, with desperate hope To find some solace for your wild unrest. And now at last authentic word I bring,Witnessed by every dead and living thing; Good tidings of great joy for you, for all: There is no God; no Fiend with names divine Made us and tortures us; if we must pine, It is to satiate no Being's gall. It was the dark delusion of a dream,That living Person conscious and supreme, Whom we must curse for cursing us with life; Whom we must curse because the life he gave Could not be buried in the quiet grave, Could not be killed by poison or the knife. This little life is all we must endure,The grave's most holy peace is ever sure, We fall asleep and never wake again; Nothing is of us but the mouldering flesh, Whose elements dissolve and merge afresh In earth, air, water, plants, and other men." - James Thomson. In many practices ... magical or martial ... one should start with securing the essence of the self against this ... stop the leakage, seal the aura, whatever or however it is said .... dont use a bucket with holes, how can you 'cultivate' if you are leaky? This is different from 'energy flowing through'. You're leaking man .... I would attend to that if I was you.

Thanks for sharing Uroboros. That sounds like quite a transformation. I'm really looking forward to my qigong class now. I hope I will be able to get something dramatic from my practice of it as well. About the retention thing... well, uh, I think I might have had an emission from a dream last night lol, though I'm not entirely sure... It was only been 1 week, and I was physically celibate, but definitely not mentally... I was craving and fantasizing so frequently, so maybe that's the reason. Looks like I'll be starting over.

what exactly is "that job" ?? i reckon we dont need humanities in our schools anyways. we should all become mindless drone workers who live to work and work to live, the rest is just nonsense. and we should work beside other drone workers. emotionless and without passion. without anything to talk/think about except the work task at hand. its not like we are humanity so why should we care about humanities ! bleh-eck besides when a.i. robots take over and control everything let them study humanities i have no desire to at all,,,humanities what a bunch of hogwash edit>>once there was a great visionary named pol pot who when he came to power decided to kill the doctors and lawyers, the artists, writers, educators, and intellectuals. his plan was to wipe out all cultural identity and the humanities. now i certainly dont condone violence such as murder and torture like the great pol pot but if we can remove the studies of humanities from our schools,, hey they are obsolete anyways, we can still achieve pol pots dream.

Sufi Dance On certain nights I attend Sufi dance. I can't remember where it is or how I get there, or, for that matter, how I get home and back into my bed. I talked to a friend about it. He told me I was dreaming. But if it is a dream why do I wake up so sore and tired? Sometimes I have blisters on my feet. But I feel I'm getting somewhere with it, I'm no longer getting as dizzy as I used to. I seem to be developing more love and patience. I look good, people tell me. I was practicing a very difficult part of the dance last month. The teacher wore orange robes and the dance was very technical. The month before, a different teacher, (who wore a red robe) taught a simpler stamping dance, a somewhat angry yet purposeful dance. There was a teacher before that a beautiful woman who wore a silver robe, her dance was fluid and graceful. I didn't do very well. I think I became a little infatuated with her, it was hard to concentrate. I liked the blue teacher, his dance was joyous and expansive. Good things happened to me after his lesson. In my mundane life, that is. The green woman! Well, that was easy! But I was a little confronted. Well worth it, because after those lessons, I met her - in my mundane life. The Golden One seemed to be saying he is what I will become. I found him a little confusing. I haven't been taught by the black teacher yet, I have had a glimpse of her style. She is naked and black and sprays of stars and spiral galaxies cover her body. But now, it’s all mixed up. Sometimes I seem in one level of the dance, and at other times in another level. But lately there is no teacher. No particular colored robe and no difference between the me here in this part of the dance and that me there in that part of the dance and another me over there in another part of the dance. But at the same time I am out of the dance and watching myself and the other dancers. When that happens the dance becomes a huge astral entity, a massive cone of light with layers and bands of colors and dancers and teachers. Each colored circle, one on top of each other, diminishing in size; a huge cone of dancing, multi-colored, banded light floating and rotating amongst the blackness and stars of space. At times while I am in the dance other dancers come into my space and bounce and career off me spinning madly, grinning, singing and dancing off to their destinies on other paths and trajectories. In this part of the dance are wild eyed poets giggling on LSD, dancers that are leaping and floating like fauns and satyrs somersaulting leaving behind them trails of stars and sparkles. When I look up through the translucence above, I see exquisite dancers. They are vibrant and ecstatic. I want to be like them. They fall and tumble but this helps then to rise in their total control of the dance. Even when they misstep. I want to be like that. And when I look down I see the dancers below me still learning the dance. I remember when I made those mistakes. Some are awkward and squabbling like cranky penguins but others are concentrating and aspiring. But sometimes, when the dance blends with my mundane life and I seem stuck in the middle part of the dance - a crazy insane part of the dance that must be passed through to finish the dance. It does with me what it will and I can only respond to its energy and lose myself in the ecstasy of not being there. But I know I am there. Just as I know that at this moment life seems much too serious to be taken seriously and so much is happening all at once, t hat it must be a dance or a dream. But it matters not because one thing I have learnt is that no matter how hard the dance is, if I persevere and continually attempt to see life from the top of the cone, in my higher consciousness, with purified love, I will survive and rise up beyond the cone to the ecstasy of infinite space and into the stars of life. Nungali.

Yesterday I went to the fair with my wife and my three year old. We rode various kiddie rides including the merry go round and a school bus that goes up and down, nothing major, just kiddie rides. I noticed after we got home that I felt discombobulated the rest of the day, a little off balance, a little queasy, just not quite right. That got me to thinking, why as a kid could I ride practically anything and not only feel okay afterward, but actually feel exhilarated, yet as an adult a simple merry go round leaves me feeling off kilter the rest of the day? The answer is simple, I haven't done it in twenty years! We ( as adults ) take so much for granted and lose skills we once possessed as we get older without even realizing it. Some people would think to themselves, " children can do it because they don't know any better ", but is the opposite not true? Adults can't do it because we have pre-conceived notions of balance and control. Notions that obviously are simply not true, yet we make them true in our own heads. I believe adults do this in a lot of other areas also. We lose the ability to imagine, dream, and create. The older we get without using these skills, the harder it is to get them back. The reason I am drawn to Taoism is because it gives you the ability to keep your mind open as opposed to some other religions that are very intolerant and closed minded.

celibacy is based on your "sea of chi" below the lower tan tien - it is your potential of yin chi energy. When you have "false fire of the heart" then your spirit energy is used as a thought - it is a flash of holographic light focused on male reproduction - it descends down the spine and instantly turns your "sea of chi" energy into... "yin jing" or water that then is lost as ejaculation. So then to fix that problem you have to ionize or burn - you have to go into the Emptiness - stop the thoughts that caused the problem - and then you have to descend your spirit as from the Emptiness - from its true source - which then will convert or purify the yin jing back into "yin chi" energy. When you are doing that you are creating your lower tan tien but it is only through that process do you finally fill your lower tan tien to create real chi as "yang chi" energy. The ability to create "yang chi" depends on how much "yin chi" you still have left in your "sea of chi" below the lower tan tien. So the younger you are - the less you have lost - then the easier it is for you to start creating "yang chi" assuming you follow the above celibacy path. To also "sublimate" the lower "sea of chi" energy so it goes above the heart - then purifies it also since it is then burned by the heart fire to create "yin chi" again - but it must be stored in the lower tan tien still or the "yin chi" goes out of the eyes as "false fire of the heart." so that is the next level of celibacy - to be able to keep building up the "yin chi" to actually create "yang chi" - it relies on both no loss of physical emission but also no loss of "yin chi" out of the eyes through any thoughts or spirit light - eye interaction - with sources causing such thoughts. So obviously the standards are very strict and that's why there are so few real qigong masters in the modern world. For example I've been "celibate" as in no physical sex for over ten years - but as I've describe above that's not nearly the same as actual celibacy for the qigong training. You want to study the book "Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality" to learn why celibacy is the foundation of the real training. I've had no emissions since April but again - that is not the same as not losing "yin chi" energy out of the eyes - which means I'm still not storing it up to create "Yang chi" as the real chi energy. IT is said the traditional training is 100 days - 3 months or 1 gong - for strict celibacy - but that is doing meditation the whole time focused on the Emptiness - meeting the above standards. It's much more than what is called "celibacy" in the modern world. Some tricks to the training - learn full lotus posture as that will better sublimate your energy - sleep on the floor as a soft mattress is not conducive to your subconscious thoughts. You have to control your subconscious thoughts in your dreams - to wake yourself up - since that type of dream with emission is not really a dream - or to reverse that - being awake is another type of dream controlled by our subconscious reproductive reality making us into instinctual machines or sorts. So since the training is based on the Emptiness then even talking about the subject goes against the actual training - and so talking about also requires having to meditation to reverse the subconscious damage - since talking is left-brain dominant which cuts off the connection to the Emptiness. Another trick is to keep your tongue against the roof of your mouth as much as possible - this prevents energy from being lost out of the mouth - the "yin chi" energy - and then helps it to descend back down to the lower tan tien. Those are some steps in the practice of celibacy.

It was mentioned earlier in the thread - awareness in deep dreamless sleep. Has anyone experienced that? Its something ive seen in multiple traditions/practices. Personally, lucid dream/ awareness in dreams is very common for me but ive never exp. It in deep sleep.

When I was 5 I was at the dentists, and was given gas. The dentist was working in my mouth, and I got bored. I got off the table (while he was still working on me), left the room and went down the stairs to the exit, leaving my body behind. I thought nothing of until years later I realized people don't do that kind of thing. When I was a young teen (before the internet was commonly being used in the general public) I 'woke up' inside a dream, and was absolutely amazed at the strange world I was in. I didn't do it again for several years as I had no idea what it was, and that it was even repeatable. The two events were markedly different. Whether this was due to the medical drugs or not I don't know, but I don't think so. I think the first time I was still in this physical plane, and the second time I was in a different realm. I think I may have has a predisposition for this kind of event due to my childhood; As a child I used to close my eyes and visualise myself flying over the ocean and visiting my home country and looking in my friend's windows. I also used to stare at a spot on the wall in my bedroom (when I was sent to my room for being naughty....so, a lot ) until everything went white. I also used to lie there at night and play with the phosphenes... you know when you close your eyes it's not all black? There are thousands of tiny pinpricks of light? Well those are phosphenes, and the eye (or my eyes) can see them all the time, depending on whether or not one focuses on them. I used to make them flow in waves and then change direction...stuff like that.

lucid dream, you still have your own body but its lucid. Same fundamental thing is also when you attain rainbowbody your body becomes lucid.

In regards to the topic, I agree. These spiritual people are generally all corrupt. Most people are not able to handle power. They are usually rich elite who have access to all knowledge and all the rest like us, even the ones who earnestly want to do whatever needs to be done miss out. The world is a negative place, with a lot of control by negative force. But we have to rely on keeping faith in hope. Those who think they have access to literally all within themselves are living a pipe dream, have their head in the clouds are true hippies.

The easiest way to have more lucid dreams is to write every single dream down, in as much detail as possible. Even when you don't dream, just write "I chose not to remember my dreams at this point in time" or something like that. Also some of us found that taking at least 1000mg of GABA creates some very vivid and lucid dreams, that one remembers.

Depends on the dream, some of each. Sometimes the astral, sometimes the subconscious.

Thanks for posting! I will probably be getting his book and CD soon. This is a very interesting question. Astral explorer Kurt Leland has performed a sort of non-physical cartography and bestiary; he talks about the "Dream Zone" and "Afterdeath Zone" being parts of the astral plane. This is from his personal experience in having what he calls "adventures in consciousness" during his sleep, where he has learned to navigate these different realms and identify the beings he encounters as projections of his own consciousness, other dreamers, the recently deceased, non-physical guides, thought forms created by people's emotions, and more besides. His books "Otherwhere" and the "Unanswered Question" deal with this kind of thing. More recently, he came upon the Theosophical notion of multiple planes and bodies, and now talks about the path of spiritual development in terms of accessing the higher planes and devloping the abilities of the "bodies" (e.g. mental body, causal body) that operate on these planes. Here is an account of his interacting with a "dream guide" - a being whose job it is to be of assistance to dreamers: http://www.kurtleland.com/astral-projection-log/2004/115-diner-in-the-sky-astral-and-mental-planes Like I said in another thread recently, there are very few authors who have changed my worldview so dramatically, and IMO much what he writes resonates with Michael Lomax's teachings.

The one time I got into something like retention practice, one wet dream meant having to start over from the beginning. The goal was the standard 100 days (and involved some practices that made it virtually impossible to acheive) and if an accidental discharge occurred on the 95th day ... it was back to day one. I didn't succeed, and now think the whole approach is unnatural and unnecessary. To the OP -- you're going from one extreme to another. That's generally a bad idea. There is no sperm in your blood, central nervous system, or brain. And there's not supposed to be, either. Sperm is in your testes, and then it's out of your body, it's pretty simple and is true for every species of animal that reproduces with sperm/egg. There are hormones associated with your sexual drive, however, and you're taking measures guaranteed to throw them into a crisis. My suggestion is to stop the obsession, get a nice girlfriend (or boyfriend, or whatever), enjoy sex and develop a healthy relationship with your body (and mind).

Hi all, I have a query regarding the foundations of magickal practice. Let me start by briefly describing my experience. I have been cultivating 'magick' (or whatever one wishes to call it) for well over a decade, and have had a reasonable amount of success. Definitely enough for me to have to take it seriously and believe that it is 'real' and not mere coincidence or imagination (imagination in the conventional sense. I am aware that Imagination is something different). I have done a small amount of mediation (VERY small), and a reasonable amount of visualization, and that is where my query lies. Upon reading certain tomes devoted to the cultivation of these kinds of practices, they highlight the importance of mediation and visualization. In comparison to the degree that seems to be expected by these books, my experience seems to be paltry. I am curious as to how much time you have all dedicated to these foundational skills? Upon reading Crowley's Liber ABA, I find This still happens to me, for the most part. As long I don't try too hard, and allow it to emerge as a dream I can visualize more complex scenarios, but when aiming for the simple, such as a yellow circle, I get all kinds of interference. As for mediation, well, I'm a bit embarrassed to discuss my attempts. So, to summarize, how much time have you dedicated to basic skills such as mediation and visualization? Have you noticed a large improvement in your 'magickal' abilities as a result? And any other advice or discussion on this topic is also appreciated. Peace

I'll reply this as it's not just related to chocolate haha. What you have said certainly is one side of the coin, and I know this what you were getting at too, Beyonder. However, if you buy into evolution...should our distant relatives (non human) had stuck with that notion, we may have never left the oceans. I dream to be more than this stage of human, although it is still just a dream.

Actually, this is not (usually the aim imo/ime). Rather you can hone your mind to experience things as they "actually are" once you develop enough awareness, and then enough stability to pierce through that level of "experience" of self. Well, I'm the one talking about invisibility and immortality right now, don't lump that on anyone else... In time you will realise, if you don't already , that "when they own the information oooh, they can bend it all they want". Let me paint a piccy for ya: Humanity are co-creators, we all have free will - not so hard to grasp? The collective free will of humanity, in the majority, seeks to control the vastness of its "unlimited" free will - to contain and corral it, keep it manageable through the senses. The responsibility of being fully at one with said free will is pretty intense to most, it takes "constant "work"" to be in that state of awareness. So, the collective has manifested a group control system to keep the illusion of separateness alive and well - thus keeping the average joe blow from walking out the top of his head and realising who he/she really is. ok, no judgement there, free will, right? There's a great scene in the film "Inception" where Leo D-Cup is training his charge in architecturally redesigning the illusory landscape of the dream state. What he does not tell her is that if she changes the dreamscape too drastically - the collective starts "attacking you". They attack the "different". I'm not trying to tell you that people will attack you, not at all. I'm saying that there is an ancient control system that has been expanding and contracting since mankind's original fall from grace - and it keeps this stuff under wraps with ridicule, hiding, and whatever it takes to maintain the sleep of the senses. Evidence and proof are fodder, brecky to feed this beast ongoing. It's your free will, all power to ya. You need nothing more, you are already "supernatural". This is about training in memory energy that drags your ass beyond your current locked in degree of awareness. Be that scientist, though I would urge you to question whether its a matter of quantity (time) or quality. Consistency will deliver you to that answer.

There is "I" - it's just a construct. Same consciousness individuated through dimensions of experience. It is "possible to shift perspectives through other people as in see through somebody else's eyes and experience what they experience" - Yes. "if this were possible and you knew it was, would you tell me?" - Yes. BKA has it right, it's called empathy. At the normal waking state level you have empathy at an emotional and mental level - whereby you feel and think their thoughts (when you know you are doing it - it is the next level). Then, if you have the ability to attenuate your "individual" experience sufficiently you can take on "their" experience more fully. In that state you can see through their eyes, take part in their experience as if it were you. At that level it is sometimes difficult to determine which way is up, is this me or them? The best way to develop these aspects of awareness, ime, is through your own emotions and thoughts...I have had countless instances seeing through other people's experience as a result of leaving no stone unturned - cultivating emotional.mental/behavioural patterns. But my wife is a natural at this. She thinks much of the time it is hers - a true empath. My wife does it all day - in a waking state its usually just the mento-emotional aspect. She'll do other people's stuff, and I see it and tell her - then she sees the vision. In her dreams she will do other people's waking experience - making it her own dream, but its their exact experience only as if it were hers. She'll awaken and tell me about it, and I'll see into it - but, it doesn't marry. I ask a few questions and then start seeing the visuals, and tell her and then she she's it too. It's as simple as letting go of yourself and loving others as unconditionally as you love yourself, and seek to be loved by others. So, yes, yes, yes.

Nungali, Your cautionary note is appropriate and well received. It applies to the dream work you described as well. By saying responsibility, I mean the way Jung spoke of taking responsibilty for more than just what is identified through the ego. I see the "slotting into each other" as a Jungian idea too; There is a structure where seemingly disparate elements are connected to each other beyond the individual.

The Turkey has taken to more door knocks. tap tap tap .... ignore him ... tap tap tap .... " Go away!" ... Tap tap tap tap TAP! ... He is the only person that bothers to knock ... the others just come in or call out vocally. Right now he has decided to 'nest' on the planter box on the front porch, after continually jumping on the solar power leads and batteries and making a kerfuffle. I am contemplating nabbing him and putting him in a cardboard box and taking him to the WIRES vet ... his foot is now very crippled and I think that could be why he is hanging around (and why I am feeding him, it must be hard to scratch up food standing on one leg ! ) . I looked at him this morning on my way to the loo and asked if he wanted to go to the vet and he came over and stood next to me (last time I asked he ran away) .... soooo . (This has been going on ever since my daydream about the little UFO / walking robot thingo crashing in the front yard and breaking one of its legs and me having to fix it. ) I guess I am going to have make some phone calls, get him in a box somehow and we will go for a drive. And if a bird can speak, who once was a dinosaur, and a dog can dream; should it be implausible that a man might supervise the construction of light? - King Krimson.

“To this I replied, "I still think that my body is not merely a sensory appearance, for surely it came from my parents, who were its cause and condition." He said, "If you think that your body came from your father and mother, then what are the beginning and end of these parents? What are their source, their location, their final destination? Tell me!" I answered, "I think that they exist, but I am not aware of what they are. It seems to me that a physical body without parents is not possible." He retorted, "Consider this. Who are the parents of the body in a dream, in the bardo, and in the hell realms?" With that, I arrived at the decision that this body has never existed, being simply a sensory experience.” ― Dudjom Lingpa, Buddhahood Without Meditation: A Visionary Account Known as Refining One's Perception

Curious things dreams and I do believe they can effect our day to some extent. I thought I would stick this here (just for fun) ; it's part of the film script I wrote about my experience in the film industry - 'Reza' is my Iranian boss. ----------------------- SCENE EXT. BEACH. DAY. [ FX – Dreamscape.] Reza is lying on an idyllic beach. Totally enjoying himself. He goes to sleep. … He wakes up and looks out at the beach but the ocean is gone and he is in a desert. REZA “Where is water? … Must be low tide.” He walks down the beach / sand dunes and sees something in the distance. He squints. [ FX – heat wavered silhouette of a camel train.] CUT TO - Reza staggering through a desert. REZA “I need a drink … it’s been so long since I had a drink … I’m dying of thirst.” He falls to the sand. SCENE INT. BELLYDANCERS TENT. NIGHT. [Dreamscape continues] Reza comes-to in a lavish, exotic mid-eastern style tent. Woman are belly dancing and offering food on trays. One offers a hookah. Another is reading poetry from a book. Reza lays back and enjoys it. [ SFX – Alarm clock ringing.] The woman all look up surprised. BELLYDANCER “What is this strange noise that has intruded into our world?” REZA (Pissed off) “Oh no! Not now!” The Bellydancer comes up to him and mops his brow with her veil. BELLYDANCER “What troubles thee my love?” REZA (Cranky) “I have to go to work.” BELLYDANCER “Work? What is this strange word that has intruded into our world?” REZA “I have to go.” BELLYDANCER “Oh no my love! Do not leave us, stay here with us!” OTHER BELLYDANCERS (Chorus) “Stay … please do not go … stay here with us ... ” (etc.) BELLYDANCER “Do not go to that strange place of harsh noises …” [ SFX – Alarm is still ringing.] Bellydancer covers her ears. “ And strange harsh words … this ‘work’ thing sounds evil … do not go!” REZA “I don’t want to but ….” [ SFX – ringing louder.] SCENE; INT. 'CAMP DEATH' location – REZA’S BEDROOM. PRE-DAWN. Reza slaps the alarm clock and gets out of bed. He goes about his morning preparations very cranky and grumpy. SCENE EXT. LOCATION 1. CATERING AREA. DAWN. Reza is setting the breakfast tables, he is banging things around and is in a bad mood. Massoumeh is making fruit juice at the other table and watching. She brings Reza a juice. MASSOUMEH “What’s up?” REZA “Oh nothing, I don’t know, I’m just in a bad mood. Today, it seems this whole job just isn’t worth it. Why do I bother? …. I go to sleep and , bing! Next instant I have to get up again … or I can’t sleep all night until an hour before I have to get up.” MASSOUMEH “”Did you sleep last night?” REZA “Well, that’s the weird bit, I did sleep pretty good last night. I had some sort of dream about being at the beach, but I can’t quiet remember it. For some reason, from the moment I got out of bed I’ve been really pissed off.”

I suggest 'cleaning up' one's dreams. If you can make changes and 'create habits' in your dream would, they will start to manifest in other parts of your life. I will go back into the dream after awakening and re-do or address what I thought was done wrong .... after a period of this it starts to happen in the dream 'automatically' ... and then into your conscious life.

There is a diabolic quality to many dreams that seem designed to engender the greatest amount of anxiety possible within the context of unfolding circumstances and the choices made within them. There are times in waking life where this relentless quality emerges. Those are really bad times. There is some kind of connection between the two realms. It is hard to get the mind around the idea. What I have found to be most disturbing is when I awake from a dream where I have done something I don't want to have done and find myself asking: Did I actually do that thing? In that moment, the "real" is like an alibi clearing me of a charge made for a crime enacted by me in another life. Doppelganger.