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Hahahaah...reading stories about this drug Amiodarone...I am wondering if the doctor was trying to make my mother's life miserable. I guess this drug has so much karma associated with it I can somehow sense it in my dream vision. Wow, lost of the thyroid functions. Going completely blind within 6 months. http://patient.info/forums/discuss/browse/amiodarone-2499

So what you glimpsed during Nirvikalpa samadhi was enough to cause you to realise There is only that one...no other (no separation between people, things, religions, languages, skin color, animals) There is really no thing. You are I and I am essentially empty of phenomenal existence. The world as we know it is just a vivid dream. You said "Once these two realizations occur (experientially), there is no more negativity or fear or anger or envy etc. There is only love, tranquility and bliss." Do I assume too much in seeing this as allowing all vasanas and samskaras to drop immediately?

In your first post you appear to be saying that the vasanas and smaskaras are dropped immediately after realising in Nirvikalpa Samadhi that: There is only that one...no other (no separation between people, things, religions, languages, skin color, animals) There is really no thing. You are I and I am essentially empty of phenomenal existence. The world as we know it is just a vivid dream. and immediately replaced by love, tranquility and bliss. So am I correct in saying that to you there is no work to be done apart from allowing all vasanas and samskaras to drop immediately? Which would also imply that ego is extinguished at the same time, because the vasanas and samskaras are attached to the ego self.

This is something I have been able to do, but not sustain or deliberately initiate. Originally it would happen due to exhaustion. I'd lie or sit down, and just rest, but not sleep. Sometimes I would hear thoughts corresonding to what had happened earlier in the day. The first time this happened I was in Vegas, and I heard people's voices saying all sorts of things appropriate to being in Vegas, but I was in my room. I actually considered this might be clairaudience, but the next time it occured I had been inside all day, and played a computer game. I lay down, and heard the voices and sounds from the game. Oh. Then last summer I had an epiphany. I was angry about something for hours. Anger has been a significant attachment for me. I didn't want to be angry. In such a situation I (and others) often say "being angry doesn't solve anything, just relax." Doesn't work. But that day it did. I thought "this isn't helping the people on whose behalf I'm angry, it's bad for me and I don't like it." Poof--the anger was gone and I was unreasonably happy. I went to the small room I was living in, sat and thought for a while. I had significant money problems and I was worried I was going to run out in a few months. I thought "worrying about this does me no good. I've done what I'm going to do, it will work or it won't, and other stuff may happen I don't control. If there's something I can do, I'll do it; if not, I won't; and otherwise I'm not going to worry about it. If I run out of money and bad stuff happens, no reason to suffer for it until it happens (and maybe not then)." I had spent a year deciding not to worry or care about all sorts of things, but anger and worry over money (survival) had evaded me. I lay down, and just relaxed completely. My attention was nowhere. It was not on my breath, it was not in a specific place in my body, it was not following a thought. It was placed nowhere. And I felt a heat, similar to how a fever feels, rising from the tips of toes and the tips of my fingers. It moved from the fingers and toes to the foot and hand. I had a bad splinter in my left foot a few years ago which didn't heal properly. When the fever hit that, it hurt. My attention moved to the pain, and the fever stopped. I wasn't upset by the pain, it was just that my attention was on something specific. I relaxed again, the fever started again, and I managed to not pay attention to that pain. Then it hit my right wrist, which I had broken as a teenager and had healed badly. More pain. Attention to that pain. I couldn't get past that. I kept relaxing, the fever would hit the wrist and it was too much pain to ignore. It wasn't, again, that I was upset with the pain (I've had much worse) but just the act of putting my attention on it stopped the heat cold. After a few tries, I got frustrated, starting thinking about how to do this and, of course, lost it. This felt to me like chi rising (not Kundalini, but I could be mistaken). I have had various heat sensations during meditation at various times. I can't make it happen, but if I detach enough it does. Often this is a sudden flush of heat to the chest and neck. I don't think it's the same thing. I've never had the fever repeat, but a month or so ago, I gave up on trying to fix another problem. Really gave up, and thought "I'm never Doing anything every again." My attention was nowhere, because I had given up completely--nothing mattered, so I didn't need to do anything. Comfortable warmth rose in my body, not feverish, in the places where I have the most tension stored. I fell asleep, woke up about 8 hours later, the heat was still there (indeed it had been with me when in the one dream I remember). Placing my attention somewhere, no longer "giving up completely", the heat vanished. Ok, so much for the long story. 1) Have other people had similar experiences? 2) Does anyone have advice on how to get to this point of placing attention nowhere? For now, while doing nothing, later while doing. This seems related to Wu Wei (the non-doing part, though non-interference is also important). It seems associated with what Hindus would call Karma-yoga (doing without caring about result). But I can't deliberately induce it, and I can't reliably stay in it. How would I do that? Advice much appreciated.

Why would it be a spiritual trap or a dead end? It only brings home two realizations. There is only that one...no other (no separation between people, things, religions, languages, skin color, animals) There is really no thing. You are I and I am essentially empty of phenomenal existence. The world as we know it is just a vivid dream. Once these two realizations occur (experientially), there is no more negativity or fear or anger or envy etc. There is only love, tranquility and bliss. When we are in presence of such masters, it also influences us to become that way.

The story I heard was from an elder ; When the ocean rose and flooded the Gulf Of Carpentaria (which was previously above water level ) , a 'fierce tribe' moved westward as they were loosing their land and displaced the Bunjalung who were living in that area and they moved south eventually coming to east coast NSW. This is very different to the 3 brothers legend, coming by canoe ( But did that legend come with them is it a NSW legend ? ? ? No, he got that name like most westerners got them. The ancestral 'spirit' for them would be https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirawong .... his specific ancestor hero ( I have a bad memory here ) is Boorigan ( spelling ? ) - possibly one of the the three brothers ? Phew ! .... Lets see; he is an old friend. I have not learned the whole story ( stories have great depth and start to interconnect with stories of other places, events and beings, based on family relations, moiety, totemic relationships via 'song lines' having the potential to link the whole country up and are heard by entitlement. Maybe no one knows the whole story, thats the idea, to keep people and places connected so the whole story is a group thing. I can see Old Man Dreaming from my cabin (and from where I move my bed to to get winter morning sun, I can see him while I lie in bed ( ... and dream ) . He looks up the valley . (As far as I can make out from your question), I am associated with 'that' place , I dont own it ( national park) I live nearby but I dont 'own' the place I live on but I do live 'at it ' ? ? ? if that is what you meant . Its my DBs site name, based on Ngali - http://www.nationalparks.nsw.gov.au/things-to-do/Lookouts/Skywalk-lookout I am associated by what I wrote above and a 'magical connection' . Or if you like ... by living in that area and being receptive to the area energies and network. nah .... I just liked that 'lazy kangaroo' picture , I have been a wily-wily, a camel , a sea cucumber spirit, originally I was a goanna .... another type / variation Nungungali .... one of two main creator spirits (landscape was formed from a battle between a giant snake and a goanna ) Yes. Its on the internet ..... there are a few others like it . they were a result of the 'Julingah Yowarl ' period ( which seems finished now ) http://www.ecoshout.org.au/event/julinbah-yowarl-rainbow-corroboree

Most of my sleep paralysis experiences have been night terrors. Through practicing dream yoga, I have had 2 occasions of becoming lucid during these episodes and was able to transform them.

Does the book The Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep explains the dreaming techniques too?

It is an interesting thread, indeed. Let me add a few things. Speaking about the european infantization. My mother rarely spoke to me of politics. That is, we often spoke together, but hardly she would tell me things as if they were coming from her own, much longer experience. She did it two times. One time she told me: "Pietro, things are now going to change politically [it was around half the 90's, during a time italian main party DC have been discovered to be very corrupted], but do always remember one thing, because people will tell you all sort of things. The left has NEVER governed this country[italy]. I know it, because I was here. It was Christian Democrats [DC], from after the war. Always the center". The second time she told me: "there is this dream. And this dream is not to have a nanny socialist or communist state that stops you from growing. But it is to have a state which takes care of the weak, and those who are not able to take care of themselves (as it is not in pure capitalists countries), while, at the same time, giving the possibility to the few who have a stronger will to succeed, to do so. Something which is not so in communists countries. It is following this dream that I have voted left all my life. Against, as you know, my more direct interests" Peregrino, are you sure you are not projecting? I was living in Amsterdam in 2002. In a muslim part of the city. And I felt much more safer than in some outskirts of Rome. I understand and agree on the analysis that we might be at the verge of an historical moment because of the population implosion. But I did not have this sense of imminenet danger over there.

I think it would be edifying, edificational,, whatever, especially if you know some of the particulars about the folks that made it down under. /... the aquatic ape hypothesis has been around a while ,http://www.primitivism.com/aquatic-ape.htm I like it , it seems very reasonable to me, though most of it regards time quite a while before the first got to Aust that doesnt mean it doesnt still hold validity for them. Pre- dream time? Do we really have to debunk aliens and the early hominids ?or can we just skip to pre-history peoples. Or if you really want to do hominids , What about em? Just watched the clip , questions , Bunjalung is Australian aborigine? correct? what do the call themselves (as opposed to whites) or do they not make that distinction? Is he holding a long functional boomerang? Did they ever hunt whales as some other coastal peoples did? Their history doesnt go back before arriving in Austr. ? or is that entirely forgotten? ......and yes it is almost a spooky coincidence that at least some consider whales as ancestors. In Africa I was thinking along the shores of lake Chad , Rift valley lakes , Congo river etc. And I personallly am not asserting that humans lived like mermaids or had gills, or even were marine, no We still cant abide the salt water ( can drink 1/3 brackish) or even soak in water for days , but that doesnt mean one of our ancestral lineages didnt spend the majority of time wading splashing hunting , in and around water , enough so that physically there were heritable differences. The hominid line has had various offshoots which part , evolve , and merge back into the larger population, this is a more recent mindset gathering steam of late , and most focus on Neanderthalensis , Denisova , Florensis hybridizing back into Sapiens line. But the greatest genetic diversity actually traces back to Africa suggesting that this was the earliest experimental cradle and meltingpot. It is said that humans were never really a populous species , but if you drop the population too low, and too far apart the species loses its genetic viability , where was everybody ? they were on lakes rivers and beaches where remains do not preserve often. Water features dry up and we walked somewhere else. Like Snail Kites which really just eat snails , when water conditions are poor somewhere they just rotate to other large lakes. The movement isnt aimless wandering , like some people envision for hominids on a savanna. I dont know why anyone thinks this is really what was going on , it seems funny to me , that humans just kind of strolled around through the territories of lions and stuff. No , we had a niche , one that was difficult for many creatures to survive in , and it was there out in these difficult spots with challenging and varied food sources that we had any chance of living without getting eaten. For instance , we can eat plums, nuts , seaweed , shellfish, chocolate , onions , oregano , tomatoes , oranges , as well as catch , fish ,snakes porcupines, turtles, eggs ,cactus fruit ,,, and a whole host of crap that most animals would find toxic or impossible to harvest all of. ( some- but not all) Thats why our capabilities are , yes, all terrain, but no , not on par with gazelles and lions ON equal terms with them. We lived where leopards and hyenas couldnt persist over time, or didnt have the all the advantages they would on dry ground.

long life to all dead and undead! I was hoping to get some tasty bits of information from someone of the hermetic order first, but alllllll riiiiight.. He caught the maya-deer with the maya-net. I know from Guru whose story it is. The death of the body is not the end of self. The garland remains. The net cannot catch it. Nor can the chains catch the deer. In the restless race the deer vanishes into the void. Busuku (remember means the one who only eats, sleeps and shits) - so Busuku said first that when he doesn't get the "meat" he won't enter the hunter hut right? I just make a wild guess and the meat here is the meat of the maya-deer that the hunter caught with the maya-net He says "I know from Guru whose story it is" - I would guess that Busuku says here "this" secret of tantra he learned from the master: that the way to get realisation is not to abandon or dispise maya but to use it as upaya or skillfull means - like the famous quote "the relative is the method and the ultimate is the result of the method" only through understanding or realizing the relative, relative means just to remind you: all these illusory forms of our daydream state and night dream state. this dance of lights and shapes, sounds, thoughts/emotions etc - all contained within the five skandhas that you should slay in the first line... so all those illusory forms sounds etc. are the relative - holding unto them as real and substantial things means being caught within the net of maya - now this net of maya as we found out is both liberating and bounding depending on how you use it or be used by it (the high priestress) on the other hand in tantra we are thought that the five skandhas are not impure like in the lower vehicles but are actually the five buddha families - they are divine if one sees clearly and that secret is shown by the guru, or vajramaster so then the meat of this deer? I would say it is connected with siddhis or spiritual attainments, because meat is one of the samaya substances of tantra and relying on them gives siddhi (what that means is beyond the scope of my scribbles and because I don't know for sure what this actually means writing about it - I might create a lot of misunderstanding so better to not share half knowledge) so this meat of the deer, might be pointing to an essential point of buddhist tantra - transmuted perception or pure perception maya (the 5 skandhas) are not longer evil/holy and foul/beautiful, this body, perceptions etc and the emotions are not longer foul/beautiful and painful/pleasurable - this dualism is a source of suffering, but this suffering that seems to be so inherent to maya is seen as great bliss/emptiness - a sacred dance of forms, lights, sounds etc. so busuku is not interessted in entering the hunters hut, this big mental construct or prison of samsaric perception, if he cant extract the essence - that this samsara is nirvana, the impure 5 skandhas are in actuality the 5 buddha families so this deer is non other then the adept on the path, not as a siddha or a being who gained the fruit of this path the traditional example of the stages of a tantric adept is as follows, and here we are discovering stage number 2: first he/she should be like a bee - flying from flower to flower to collect the pollen (means meet many teachers and teachings - taste many approaches) then he/she should be like a deer - a deer is very careful, never too much in the open, sometimes appearing on a clearing in the forest but always aware whats happening, this means that the adept should be in retreat more, focus on the essence of the teachings and cultivate them in secrecy, if there is the need to go out - into the world/human society (forest clearing) then one is adviced to do so with great caution the next stage is the lion - the king of animals, free to roam and do as he/she pleases with true self confidence, this means that the adept has reached a certain realisation that is more stable and unshakable by outer circumstances, so if there is a need to be more active in society then now is the time the last stage is the madman - the siddha, utterly beyond any social and religious constrains, dogma etc. so here in this giti I think we talk about the adept as this deer - and there are also certain threatening forces in the giti, specially at the end. on one hand the maya net can never catch enlightenment or our true nature, because the nature of maya is enlightened - maya can't catch herself on this fundamental level the deer can't be chained either, once the adept becomes a deer - society (as a threatening force that might interfere with the dealings of the tantrica or mage in the hermetic tradition) can't chain him or her any longer, he/she entered the twilight of the forest and society doesn't know this twilight and can't enter and follow the adept to where he or she is destined to go in the restless race (of wordly life,dualistic vision and thinking processes) - the deer vanished into the void

Ok, a brief attempt to answer your question: Being mindful in any practice that you are doing. The practice matters less than how you do the practice. Regulate the posture, breath, and mind. Look within, listen within, feel within. Maintain the role of observer, maintain awareness, and do not attach to any phenomena or goal. Keeping this advice in mind, practices that are conducive to mind training: Standing Post Qigong - try one posture for an hour; Vipassana meditation - simply sitting and maintaining awareness, watch physical tensions, thought forms, and emotions come and go without attachment; Spontaneous adjustment Qigong - keeping the same principles of Vipassana in mind, Sleep and dream practices - too much to get into here but one of my book suggestions below gets into this topic very well - as do Sifu Jenny's teachings; internal martial arts, practiced with the development of Yi as the focus, not the development of power or skill (though those will likely follow the development of Yi). And really any practice will do, just practice with the idea of developing your mind and exploring the nature of mind and the nature of all perceived reality. Turning every moment of your life into your practice helps tremendously. Direct oral transmission of wisdom teachings really helps - again I recommend Sifu Jenny - her talks cut through me like daggers and helped me cut through the veils of illusion quickly. If you are the reading type, I also would recommend the following four books, they aid the cognitive mind in getting out of its own way: Recommended by Sifu Jenny: "I Am That" Sri Maharaj Nisargadatta Also: "Tibetan Yogas of Sleep and Dream" Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche "Revealing the Tao Te Ching, translation and commentaries" Hu Xuezhi "Secret of the Golden Flower" Thomas Cleary translation Finally I'll copy some of a post to another thread I made recently that may benefit: "Lastly I would like to add to the discussion that these two gems connect very well in practice: Training to free the mind from judgment and the limits of cognitive thought and emotional response, while maintaining awareness, allows for the pre-natal shen to flow, relaxing tension, easing rigidity, releasing blocks, and allowing for the natural, free flow of energy to nourish body, mind, and spirit. This "mind training" for me is the heart of spontaneous qigong. And the practice of forms, particularly for me taiji, helps develop the greater Yi necessary for more effective spontaneous practice, while at the same time helping to open the channels and the physical body to ensure that spontaneous movements and expressions of energy are expressed in a free flowing, graceful, and gentle manner." The whole post can be found in its original context at the bottom of the page here: http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/4395-kunlun-and-spontaneous-movement-qigong/page__st__64 I hope this now not so brief attempt gets at your request for practical info. My best to you and everyone in their cultivation. -onelove

Dream on. It will never happen.

Teacher. Guru. Drug. Entheogen. Breath. Plant. Stone. Crystal. Human. Animal. Reptile. Algae. Fish. I can't conceive of a single thing in our entire universal environment, nor a process, or organ within my body, nor a dream or thought stream of 'my mind' that is not a guru. In fact, to me, there is no separation of teacher and student. There is just relationship. I no longer perceive teacher/student, guru/follower. I experience relationships. Either I participate, or withdraw. Our human culture of late seems so obsessed with teachers and teaching. Particularly of becoming a teacher. In the West it seems a plague of the mindset of needing to 'teach what I know' to everyone around me, particularly after having some impacting experience. I need to teach you something. You need to learn something. There is this assumption that my experience must be distributed to the larger masses. I'm a great teacher. You're a great teacher... so and so is a bad teacher. what a load of b.s. that all is to me where I am now... there is no thing and no one to me now, who isn't a teacher and student simultaneously. There is life. Of which, we are all an integral participant. How aware we are of that process... determines much. The level of my participation in an active relationship will dictate how I define and what I call teacher and what I will derive from the process of being in the presence of anything. To sit under a tree for an afternoon and watch the wind blow the grass, the birds hunting insects, the ants disassembling a grasshopper corpse and the bees bringing life to everything around them... very instructive for me, if I'm participating, but who is the teacher? More and more, I sense that the only guru is within and it is not a thing, it is a process. I have in the traditional sense, been a teacher. I had 'information' that I offered to others in a formal setting. Whether or not the 'student's learned, I had no control. In reality, I offered of myself and if they were inclined to enter actively into the relationship, the participants, perhaps gained or lost something within their experience that could be defined as beneficial, or useless. But to strictly define me, or anyone as the teacher is an obtuse and clumsy oversimplification, it's lazy. There was not a single instance of this traditional process of me being 'the teacher' where I myself did not learn. As for substances. All 'things' have medicine. They have within the very vibration of their essence, in their nature, lessons that I may derive if I am inclined to seek, or listen, or simply participate in a relationship with them. Crystals are powerful teachers in this sense for me right now. The whole 'drugs are bad... mm'kay' mentality is pedantic to me of late. It's usually an indicator of someone's lack of experience, a projection of social programming. Herbs, plants, fungi, entheogens have tremendous and powerful medicine that can impart potent lessons when we enter into a relationship with them. How those relationships affect us is part of the process called life. Not all of life is pleasant. Not all lessons I have learned were fun, but even the unpleasant lessons were helpful. It is just as helpful to learn what I am not. Anything that affects an effect can be classified as having a drug-like quality. Breath is by far the most potent guru/student relationship I have and is hands down the most potent drug I have ever encountered. Adjusting and altering my breath rate and depth/shallowness has induced states far more powerful than any 'traditional drug' I have ingested or smoked. Quiet observation I would classify as my second most potent guru. Just to sit and open up to what is around... student/teacher/drug/medicine/beneficial/harmful... labels of processes and reactions. There is a universe, apparently without, yet experientially as much within. All life is a guru, if I'm willing to participate in an active relationship. Yet, life isn't the same without me, in the process, so who then is the true guru, and who is teaching whom?

In terms of plant spirit medicine (psychedelic as well as simply meditation with the regular plants), the plants may be the healers and teachers in its practice, but it's our insight through which they communicate to us. In visions from daydreams, dreams at night, sudden knowing of what to do, songs that you're humming out of the blue, etc. So we could go beyond plants, by learning with all things, through our insight-knowing. We might get premonitions in dreams about the day to come, or something important to do. So perhaps the best thing is paying attention to the symbols of dreams, such as by keeping a dream journal, and living life less busily so that we can have time to "hear" this stuff and process it.

luminosity as light of awareness? I don't have a reference point so i don't know what is clear light dream, you are keeping "lucid" and "clear" as two separate things without no connection.

you mean lucid dream?

Funny you should mention biaural sounds. I have gotten into Monroe's hemisync series. For a few days I would wake up early, put on the head phones, listen to the Focus 10 series and end having a lucid dream. It was great but for some reason I haven't done it lately, maybe I haven't been doing it consciously and with intent. As far as step 1, writing down your dreams. I decided if I want to do it seriously this will help. An author decided to wake up every day at 5 a.m. He found he couldn't. Even with resolve, in the morning he'd fall back asleep or decide to do it tomorrow. So he practiced. In the evening he'd go to bed. Spend a few minutes there. Then pretend to wake up, walk to the bathroom and pretend brush his teeth. He did this several times night, for several days. Like a Pavlovian dog, he trained himself, going through the morning grogginess and any question of will power. Maybe writing down dream should be like that. A few pretend sessions for a few nights. Lots of positive, 'I'm up here's my dream journal, I remember my dreams, Now I write'. Practice a few times an evening. So what the level of practice here? Who remembers there dreams? Who programs there dreams? Who is lucid and how regularly? Who goes beyond lucidity into alternate dimensions? thanks Michael

Thank you Steve. I am rather awed by the Dream Yoga book, and in fact I am re-reading it again from the beginning. Even reading the introduction (after the initial reading) brings deeper level of understanding. I expect that this is one of those books that each time you read it, you see it with higher eyes. I appreciate your statement that it is something that is impossible to define - the only thing I could relate it to was experience. So perhaps the experience had nothing to do with rigpa. Perhaps I'll get a further glimpse (an undefinable one, for sure!) upon second reading. And this time I won't try to define it, Love to you.

Great timing, Michael! I've been looking back into lucid dreaming recently... I think the achievement to go for is to be lucid in your dreams - because you can accomplish a lot of deep work on the energetic level... Remembering and interpreting dreams imo is not that usefull - my understanding is that 'normal' dreaming is a way of tying up loose emotional threads that you've started off in the day... I admit that knowing more about your dreams may help you learn how you deal with emotions and what effect they have on you - but there are other ways of doing that quicker... It's important (over time) to move from this type of emotional dreaming to more 'creative' or developmental dreaming (where rather than resolving emotional issues we get clues on how to move forwards on our spiritual path)... Then eventually lucid dreaming becomes a reality and you can affect yourself and your world directly through dream practice... Historically it has been really quite hard to become a lucid dreamer - it took many dacades of of dedicated practice or 'natural' ability. Ofcourse we're lucky today to have access to a lot more information and many more resources that can help us... First thing is we need to resolve our emotional issues of the day before we go to sleep... The healing sounds are very usefull in this regard, and I've found that mentally reviewing the day three times right before sleep helps a lot! I review it once without any judgement - very objectively... then I review it again and notice what I could've done better and where I strayed off my path and lastly I review it noticing what I did well, and where I stayed on my path... (I actually do the healing sounds right after this)... That alone has a great effect on my dreaming - the dreams shift in quality quite noticeably... Sometimes while I'm in bed almost asleep I give myself an intention to resolve some problem or come up with a creative idea or have some specific form of dream (and I always intend to wake up at a certain time (exact to the minute) usually just before my alarm goes off - this is incredibly effective! and a good way to learn how powerfull your subconcious really is.) A few years ago I was training myself to have lucid dreams and in only a couple of weeks I could do it predictably (although I started slacking and lost the skill )... There are a few important things to do to be successfull in this - firstly the 'resolving emotional issues of the day' drill must be practiced every night for a while... secondly you cant go to bed tired! If you fall asleep when drained you simply won't have a lucid dream - it's important to be full of energy and be relaxed with it... And you need to train to be able to have your body asleep whilst your mind is awake... This is achieved by listening to brainwave/binaural recordings (around 4hz is the optimum for this state) and I found the practice of Yoga Nidra (yoga sleep) to be very effective (especially if combined with the binaural technology)... This needs to be trained daily over several weeks so you consistently enter that state easily, then at night you can do it automatically. What you do once you're lucid in your dreams is up to you - I never really did much more than experience cool things that I wanted to experience - flying around at high speeds, visiting beautiful places, talking to animals and cool shamans, having 'romantic' relations with hot chicks etc.. lol I wasn't spiritually mature yet - I now know that I could accomplish a lot of spiritual work in the lucid state... I guess Winn's dreaming tapes might give a better clue as to what can be done... anyone got the tapes and willing to share the info?

It is my standard of heroism because I value my life as a primary. I did not imply that you will have the same standard, but neither am I speaking from arbitrary whim. In other words I know, regardless of wether you know it or not. It is as plain as 2+2=4 (and I did not choose that example without good reason). You do not deprive anyone of anything by driving on the road unless you stole the car and thus acquired a value by deceit or force.You cannot live your life through the mirror of another because you are no longer accepting your life as prime value. Don't confuse this with hedonism it is entirely the opposite. My morals are my morals, my virtues and values are mine and mine alone. However I choose to act will have to accord with holding my own life as the primary value. Existence is identity ; consciousness is identification. Therefore, I choose people to trade and associate with who also hold similar standards. This should be obvious-would you let your wife/daughter into the car with a known rapist. Would you buy from someone who has continually failed to honour their contracts. Would you get on a plane with a pilot who announces that he believes life is just a dream, that reality cannot be know, morals are subjective and so we shouldn't worry if he decides to fly into a cliff. I'm going to bet you want to get on a plane with a pilot who values their own life most highly and will do everything in their power to survive. I've tried explaining this many times but perhaps it's too radical to grasp, even though to my eyes it's so patently obvious it really should need explanation.

I agree with your understanding as well. It is the awareness of self, the self realization realized from a constant series of 'Aha's' that create the type of awareness we're speaking of here. For the past 34 years, I've had to pull my inner covers to be in a state of recovery. Your words couldn't be truer to me. . Interestingly, I've heard this voice 3 times. The first time was when I had my moment of alcoholic clarity, when I had my boyfriend pull the car over because I had to vomit, and the wind blew it back into the car all over him. I heard a male voice in my ear say "You're so much better than this". (And it wasn't the fellow with vomit dripping off of him) The second time was after I'd been sober for about a year, and one more time I was sitting in a Christmas service in a Christian church, hearing the same old dusty nativity story once again. I distinctly heard a male voice say into my ear "This is so dead". I even looked around to see if someone had come forward and whisper this in my ear, and nobody had. I haven't been to a Christian church since then, other than occasionally to a Southern Baptist church in Ohio that I support. That voice caused me to broaden my spiritual search, resulting in me being here with you. This was the third time I heard the voice - when I was in the depression and it told me that I had a choice. Again, it was a male voice, living under the space of ego. It was real. To me, this is the voice of My Truth - not saying it's absolute truth for anybody else - but it is my truth. It is the ocean of awareness derived from uncovering self, that sense that dwells underneath. it is emotionless and every time I hear it, I know it to be my truth. It is absolutely authoritative and it is useless to second guess it. But it just struck me as I was recently reading about dream yoga and the concept of rigpa that it occurred to me that the voice I've heard on those occasions could be connected to rigpa somehow. Or not. So maybe to refer to this as a type of rigpa is absolute incorrect. I do not pretend to be a Buddhist - I just love reading everything, that's all. And sometimes the tumblers just fall into place when you read or hear something in particular, and you recognize it. That's why I felt the proximity to what the Rinpoche was describing as rigpa.

Beautifully said. It must be lived, moment to moment, so that the preparations are complete at the time of the ensuing bardo. Intellectual reformulations and restatements help us understand, but must be tempered with the concept that life must be approached like a dream, and our actions in some way must reflect the aloofness of the emptiness in which we dwell. This is the practice, as I see it. And approaching the phenomena with a loving attitude makes it all so much nicer, allowing lesser emotions to rise and fall.

And yet if one is too decisive with one's practice it too will become burdensome, rote - and of little value. Perhaps the gentle merger with one's higher guru and maintaining awareness of the dream, whether at night or during the day, is less structured and of the same value - albeit a different approach - as decisiveness. And there's always the possibility that I have totally missed the essence of your statement....

Hello there Dao Bums, Here is my introductory post, I have lurked the boards for a while and need to do this apparently, so I can download the .pdf attachments that caught my eye lol. About me - I am 26, male and live in Australia. I got sucked into the spirituality game several years ago by stumbling upon an online group and followed the practices with some results. Since then I have been working upon myself in the spiral fashion, retreading the same ground/self/issues/etc with a higher perspective and experience each time. In my studies Taoism caught my eye, mainly due to the symbolic cyphers... I love riddles... and for the past two years I know without knowing da Dao is where 'it' is at... I forgot the rest, especially the 'plz steal and harness my chi' guru worship egregores and focus on this arena. Steadily amassing a daoist library searching for gold elixir nuggets and to corroborate personal experiences in meditation, and collecting practical methods. Atm I am experimenting with energetic shapeshifting and dream working- where I am taught most of my lessons, the hardest part is actually getting out of bed to write them down before they slip away. Cheers, I continue to look forward to lurking, with download privileges plz mods, roflmao, Shannon.