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Hi Cat Whether you view this 'step down' as a mistake to be rectified is a matter of perspective. I guess in this thread I've presented the step down as a simple flow of events. Just as night follows day, cloudiness follows light. The constant 'flicker' of the light is simply something to be observed passively - as we do the diurnal cycle. Or, you can interpret the process agentically, where there is a need to act. This type of narrative will naturally posit things to do, and things not to do (mistakes). The mistake would be holding the belief that the third eye is just the physical eyes plus imagination . Concomitant with this belief might be the notion that the physical eyes need somehow to be first closed. This was the perspective I talked about a lot in The Philosopher's Tao thread, which was about dismantling our everyday earthly beliefs through scepticism. I understand that this is confusing - but spiritual enlightenment doesn't fit into the normal narratives of action and passivity. It seems that you have to present both - and hope that the leap can be made. You can say a) that we need to enlighten ourselves or that we are all already fully enlightened. Both are legitimate arguments.... For the intellect Heaven and earth are one, and also separate - therefore neither one nor separate.... God, if I could make people truly disgusted with all this speculation about heaven and earth then my threads will be worth something. For yourself you need and will get the different paradigm, on the inside - but you still need to say something to those who only understand the normal ones. This is such a frustrating problem. Jesus thought it best not to even use the normal: 'though seeing they do not see, though hearing they do not understand' so he spoke in deliberate parables. And then he gets angry "perverse, unbelieving generation - how long do I have to put up with you" (Matt 17:17) Actually even the normal paradigms are parables, but because we believe in some of them as 'facts' we make no effort to interpret them. I think the new age movement created so many good fresh parables with which to reveal spiritual truths but they're already getting old. We're already starting to take them as real... Back to Gurunath...he lost consciousness for the same reason and in the same way as we lose perception and revert to thought. But rational thought is too clumsy for Babaji, and luckily for Gurunath he had other faculties to employ. He was able to filter out everything including the infrared - objectively speaking he looked unconscious but of course he wasn't - unconsciousness is impossible. Normal people think, and normal people dream. When we realise the limitation of thought we don't bother using it - the faculty atrophies, or is assimilated into perception. The same thing happens with the rather coarse tropes of the dreamworld - there comes a point when we don't need them and our sleep becomes deep and dreamless. But it's not a complete void, there are subtle levels of awareness that will be consciously perceived before long- abilities that were veiled by the effulgence of the dream. We all occasionally have experience of this awareness, but it gets conflated with the dream and we do not realise they are separate. We say the dream was very vivid - but the images of the dream were juts normal - the vividity was provided by this obscure felt understanding that can be so strong that it changes our mood and perceptions the whole next day. The dream has the same lucidity that underlies all our waking experience in the present Light.

Had my first lucid dream when I was four. Lucid dreaming has been one of the cornerstones of my life. I'll go long periods without remembering a dream or not being lucid, but I've had tens of thousands of lucid and semi-lucid dreams. Some of my dreams have been more vivid than anything I've experienced in waking life with my real body. I distinguish between lucid and semi-lucid as this: lucid is full control or near full control, decision making and environment shaping; semi-lucid is aware but not influencing. So about a year or so after starting daily qigong and cultivation I had the impulse to start working in my dream state with energy cultivation as well. My intention was to work the Micro-cosmic orbit in the dream state. I would just hold the intention in my mind as I lay down. I did this daily for a few weeks and had this experience: The oddness of that multi-layered sensation sort of overloaded me and I lost the dream state and woke up smiling at the 'success'. Forward now to last Monday. I'm not working and I decide to take a nap in the middle of the day. I'm now at the age where I want to have back all the naps I didn't want when I was my son's age. So I drop off and as I'll do occasionally now, I set the intention to work with energy in my dream. Had a very unique experience. Now I've experienced sleep paralysis and full hypnagogic visions, but never had a physical manifestation on my 'real body' from a dream state sensation. Until this time. Really makes me wiggle inside to think just how far this rabbit hole goes...

Alcohol is part of Vajrayana. Just accept it. Even during mystical dream experiences, tertons drink booze.

while lying in bedwaking from a dream, joyous his fifth star was found

Just raise your vibration and keep it raised. You do not need to do anything more than this but also, anything less than this! There is no real need to look at the ins and outs of a particular situation or transaction except to grow as a person. If your vibration is high, you will instantly respond in a pleasant fashion that repels any potential suffering. Suffering occurs by mutual exchange. Your energy field agrees to take it on for whatever reason. Keep your Spirit in a very high state and you will be completely invulnerable. Of course these hitches may happen often for reason already explained above, on the path to high Spirit. Once you feel really deep knowingness of the Spirit, all you really need to do, ever, is to cultivate it 24/7 and permeate the Higher Self into everything you do. Think about this. A child may live or die but it is certain that some will live. Now think about this: each of us is expressing ourselves and projecting our dream onto Reality. As your head rises into the sky, literally, your reality is actualised around you, always. Then you grow weaker and your head shrinks again towards the ground after the apex point. Now consider that the heavens are literally 'forward' in time. So when you abide in High Spirit, you are literally sticking your head over the clouds that other people are below of - you are operating from a definite future pulling the past/the Momment towards it! See this: http://www.themindunleashed.org/2013/09/how-to-by-pass-your-reptilian-brain-and.html When you abide in neocortical flow, you are a man of the future. It is like you have beamed back in time to create yourself getting to the grander You. Nature loves you so much because you love Nature so much, that it will grant your every wish. When your ego disappears, so does everybody else's! If you feel the need to cause someone ego loss, you are still in ego! Annihilate your ego with all of your rage and your rage will turn into Spirit and obliterate everybody "else's" ego Yes, even if you are in a state of mental silence it is still possible to exert ego. So be vigilant against yourself. Ego disappears in the state of TOTAL no-thought. And No-Thought feels scary, like death. Until you slip into it and realise it's the "superpowers" you were looking for in the first place 44. The Thief Who Became a Disciple One evening as Shichiri Kojun was reciting sutras a thief with a sharp sword entered, demanding wither his money or his life. Shichiri told him: "Do not disturb me. You can find the money in that drawer." Then he resumed his recitation. A little while afterwards he stopped and called: "Don't take it all. I need some to pay taxes with tomorrow." The intruder gathered up most of the money and started to leave. "Thank a person when you receive a gift," Shichiri added. The man thanked him and made off. A few days afterwards the fellow was caught and confessed, among others, the offense against Shichiri. When Shichiri was called as a witness he said: "This man is no thief, at least as far as I am concerned. I gave him the money and he thanked me for it." After he had finished his prison term, the man went to Shichiri and became his disciple.

Terma is a teaching revealed in a dream?

What a joke Wikipedia is. Only one tradition has terma. I never heard of a Advaita Vedanta text revealed in a dream. Gaudapada just ripped off Madhyamaka.

Yes, I know that this is where you are right now. I just don't like the word "void" because as I undersand the TTC, Lao Tzu does not speake of it. In my understanding, void would equate to "absolute Nothingness" and this, just as with Tao, cannot be spoken of. Okay, now I can agree with you because you didn't yse the word "void". Okay. Nice dream. Now forget about it because it was only a dream. When you woke up you were still you even though your mind has changed slightly, this which happens all the time without those types of dreams. Rest your mind and you won't have them anymore. All you will have is the 'now' moment. That's reality.

I became lucid in Void once. In much the same way that I become lucid in the dream state; I became aware in Void while asleep one night. I suddenly became lucid. I was succinctly aware that there was nothing to be aware of... I had no body, there was no form and beyond the staggering fact that there was no form, I had an instinctive understanding that in this presence, form was impossible. Nothing I had ever known or would ever understand was anywhere in relation to this 'place'. Impossible Darkness, Utter Isolation. The magnitude of the thought was terrorizing and nauseating. I had no idea, no word for it. The only thought was that any reality I had ever associated with, was impossibly far away... unreachable. Panic ensued and I awoke. Much later I was reading a description of sonic models of dimensional travel that described the 'void' that exists between each note in a scale or each dimension in a reality and the resonance of that experience returned with full recall. I had a word for my experience. Void.

It has now been 42 days since the beginning of my voluntary celibacy, and in that time I have only spilled the seed once involuntarily, and this was due to a demon in a dream. I have since minimized this by adjusting diet and meditating before bed. i don't know whether to go for permanent conservation of jing or just set myself a period such as 5 yrs. i kid you not, but my body has literally changed in this period. my eyes are darker, more full of life magic. my voice has deepened, and others are more aware of me and my energy. During the day however I still struggle with keeping some of the energies at bay. Occasionally when I am in the presence of a physically desirable female I feel a slightly pleasurable, warm feeling that originates in the kundalini gland and percolates up the spine until i can literally feel it entering my brain....when this happens, it feels like fireworks are occurring in my brain and I often get a headache. i keep advil on hand, lol. should i feel bad about these feelings? my understanding is that these feelings and desires are natural, but the ultimate goal is to completely redirect the energies into the highest form of life pursuit. One thought does occur to me - at some point in my life, i would like to enter into a serious, lasting intimate relationship with a woman. How could i practice a form of sexuality which cultivates, rather than destroys this energy, without seeming to be a deviant or prude? the type of sexuality i seem to be able to experience doesn't even require contact, i feel that in such a setting, i could just be in the presence of the body and soul of another i love and soak up the energy itself. is this unnatural or strange?

"Dumb, then, for the merely not-yet-dead of us to love the thing that kills us. But I do. So beautiful, so various, so new. Some times I want to bang their heads on the Universe and scream, 'It's beautiful, you balmy bastards! THIS IS NOT A DREAM.' " ---- George Starbuck, "The Universe is Closed and Has REMs"

Is it a dream? Or is it all we have? Do we want to get off the ride, if it means a total off switch.

basically you are asking why do you wanna wake up from a dream

Answ. 1> Nah, you've got a good soul and care about people. 2> Personally I don't think we can gods, not here, not now. Thats like thinking we can have a billion billion dollars. Desire for something that imo is not possible is not the road to happiness. No flying, no billion or millions; good news- we don't need it. We have planes and credit cards. More importantly friends, family and tbs. 3>The secret is: they're not you. They have other wants, needs and interests. Once you find out about those, they're pretty simple to figure out. 4>Robert Moss didn't say, but who cares? We're not Moss'ians. In truth none of us 'Know', some assume with greater confidence then others. Moss assumes death will echo his deeper dream work moments, maybe, maybe not. I know one thing. We have here and now. And you my friend are singing the blues. If you want to snap out of it, find a way, work on it. Here's what I'd recommend. Take a news fast. We all need to every now and then. Note, that might include this site. Often the news is a concentration of everything bad in the world. The world won't end and it'll be like a shower for your soul. Focus on the Good happening around you. This will take some conscious practice. There's a child playing, a piece of nature, a blue sky, bright sun, a needed rain, your own health, the wonder of your incredible eyes.. Its out there, always. Learn to see it. Stop with judgements. For others and yourself. Its so ingrained its hard to stop, but Its major source for depression.

yeah according to the dharma, form doesn't arise from emptiness in a created way, but is emptiness (and emptiness is form). So in that sense, nothing arises from anything else in the way posited by the OP, and to that extent the original question is phrased incorrectly. If you ask "if" form arises from emptiness you will get different answers. But asking "how does it" assumes that it does, which is not a universal POV. lol not to be a dick, trying to help clarify, which can oftentimes obscure by mistake... Master Lao posited that from one came two, and so on, until the ten thousand things had manifested, and while the literal interpretation of that could be disputed, it does at first glance imply that things arose from a source which was other than itself, ultimately back to Tao which manifests spontaneously. This has led to a lot of conflation of Chinese Tao and western God which has nothing to do with Master Lao's POV as i understand it. Shakyamuni Buddha posited that things are not created by anything other than themselves, nor by their own nature, (nor by both or something that is neither) but are spontaneously uncreated and exist in an illusory state like a dream. Other lineage masters have posited different things, but the question that the OP is trying to ask has been on everyone's mind for a long time, and while there are several versions of the answer to it, nobody has really proven anything from a scientific point of view except to mention some indirect support like the first law of thermodynamics, which (if i remember) is that energy/matter is never created or destroyed. Also it has been posited (but of course not proven) that the sum total of all the energy in the universe is zero (taking into account matter and anti-matter, positive and negative energy, and so forth) so i personally, seeing the support from science math and logic, i take the point of view of Shakyamuni and company, hence the first two sentences of this post.

Hou Yi lived on in despair, the turmoil of days past slowly by and by. Like a dove, Hou Yi love for Chang E was unbreakable. Unbearable misery surrounded Hou Yi and his love of life and legend diminished, for it was weak in comparison to that love he still had for his beloved. So close yet so far away, Chang E remained in Hou Yi's every tear. Tears he cried and wept every night, for the sorrow in loss he could not fight. The will of the warrior could not succumb to the power that love had over him. Hou Yi often dreamt of being reunited with Chang E, and together they were one. In a glade the green blades glimmered with the joyous laughter and humor resonated through the leaves of the trees as the vibrant sky was gifted with vibrant hues as far as the eyes could see. In Hou Yi's dreams he felt alive and free, more alive than he did when he opened his eyes to see the empty and bare lonely room stretching out before him. More often then not he went back to sleep, to be with his one true love in his dreams, milking every precious moment, until he could not sleep due to thirst and hunger, he had to get something to drink and eat. Hou Yi would sleep for days on end, and slowly began to wither away, until one day, he didn't awake and remained in a dream state. Or so it would appear, here he remains for all to peer: Chang E whispered into Hou Yi's ear "Wake up, wake up, I miss you dear, I fear the winters just about here!" Hou Yi awoke when Chang E's tears melted with his into a sphere, the dream that would forever persevere.

Dreams are that way too. We dream we are a butterfly but the butterfly really doesn't exist when we wake up. Dragonflies are that way too. You think you see one and look hard to focus and the bass makes it non-existant.

As long as they "support" my "truths", I don't see any problem. In my mom's world "I help you with your dream, you help me build mine."

I concede that men of genius like Einstein, Tesla, Maxwell, etc. All had the ability to visualize to a near superhuman degree and dream up the correct answers and solutions to their problems, but always these ideas were firmly tested in reality. Logical, rational, scientific, well mapped out systems, are truly the only ones that have ever led us anywhere. For instance we wouldn't have the space program, nuclear technology, computer technology, etc had great minds not worked, studied, researched and applied the scientific method to help us discover and understand the principals which make those technologies possible. Real spiritual systems that actually do something, took thousands of people trying different things and most of them dying as a result of the experimentation to discover what worked and what did not. The only counter argument I can see that might be valid is that you may argue that spiritual systems may exist for entertainment purposes, or artistic/decorative purposes, without serving any practical function. Indeed for most spiritual seekers this seems to be the case, a game of roleplaying where the goal is to roleplay you are not roleplaying. Real spiritual systems that get real results are mapped out in a clearly defined and linear way, that makes sense. It's called science.

These are some of my favourite lines from all the Gospels. My interpretation is that they are all about non-duality, "whoever finds the interpretation of these sayings will not experience death" I think is talking about the fundamental identity, who you were before you were born. "When he finds he will become troubled" I have also heard it translated as "When he finds he will be disturbed", this is because realising the fundamental identity can be disturbing and threatening to the individual egoity. Many people talk about love and bliss and such things when talking about non-duality but here they say you will be troubled and I am personally glad someone said this as this is my experience of it, because what are the real deep implications that you and everyone else are on the fundamental level the same being? we are all one being, I bet even just reading these words is threatening to some people because it means that you as a separate individual will never be special, all the ideas you have held your whole life about who you are proved false and the question emerges as to who has been running the show the whole time. Many teachers have described it as like waking up from a dream, so imagine waking up and realising that it is someone else than the person you see yourself now wakes up, someone else or something else wakes up through you, isn't that troubling or disturbing? It's almost like a Steven King novel from one perspective. You become astonished by recognising that the universe is becoming aware of itself through you, then because you recognise you are the all you rule over the all because it is you.

I get Sounds True's weekly email. They had some interesting podcasts for download. "The Path of Dream Yoga" by Tami Simon, a free 65 minute discussion. And one from Ken Wilber about "Proof of God" which only 15 minutes. If you think they may be your cup of tea- http://www.soundstrue.com/weeklywisdom/?agmepisode=8373&wwepisode=8379&pepisode=8357&ppepisode=1777&utm_source=soundstrue&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=weeklywisdom-130920&_bta_tid=3.RM0.AmdITA.A0nS.JspH..ctYU.b..s.V-k.a.Ujz2mA.Ujz2mA.Oz4cDQ&_bta_c=8zen86jlkpo2wuute1c71zjt92puf Actually I haven't listened to either all the way yet. They had a good interview with Margot Anand that I thought was very good. I have one of her old books. She's a Tantrist who stopped teaching and practicing for 7 years, then has come back to the field fresh.

Hello all I'm a gardener by trade and live in England. I'm basically where I'm at thanks to watching Bill Hicks in the early 90s... '...all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration...that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Here's Tom with the weather...' I've spent the last 6 years investigating a number of buddhisms- bouncing from Therevada, Soto Zen, a brush with a certain Tibetan-based controversial group, until ending up reading a lot of Shinran's work and modern books on his writings. Unfortunately I just can't readily buy into the concepts of Anatman and Dependent Origination after all that time. The last 5 months I've really struggled with these to the point where something just went 'pop!' and I know it's time to move on. I have got a lot out of Buddhadharma but if you really struggle with these 2 cornerstones of the philosophy I think it's time to admit you're wired up more for advaita-stylee. Prior to that I'd been initially impressed and then massively nonplussed by a number of fairly well-known modern Non-Dualists, to the point of going on weekend retreats, lectures, etc that for the most part seemed a bit of a swizz to me. I've also been re-reading some Dao books I bought years ago too... they seem to have more resonance now, either because I'm older and/or thanks to the Buddhist immersion. I'm currently looking at some 'traditional' advaita books and websites and am finding the work of Dennis Waite refreshing and hugely beneficial. I've been not-very-good at zazen, vipassana and other meditation techniques that I've tried and I'm deliberating on whether or not to pursue TM. (Looks like over here you can get quite a big £ discount if you book a course with a letter from your Doctor). I found 'naturally 'zoning out'' in gardens, parklands, woods and even watching the clothes go round in the washing machine more beneficial to any structured form of meditation I've tried so far. Yes, I'm probably an idiot but I'm enjoying the ride!

I think a dream forum would be better for this topic. But I thought you guys would have some input that would be unique and different. If anyone has anything to add i will be glad to hear it. Thanks.

"Heavenly Empress Wangmu rewarded him with a vial of elixir that would make a person immortal and allow life in the Heavens. Hou Yi’s wife, Chang E, was known for her beauty and kind heart. Out of his deep love for her, Hou Yi gave the elixir to Chang E for safe-keeping until they could share it when he returned from hunting. An evil man, Peng Meng, spied this through the window. Three days later, when Hou Yi left to hunt, Peng broke in with sword in hand, planning to force Chang E into giving him the elixir. Chang E quickly put the vial to her mouth and swallowed all its contents. As soon as she had swallowed the elixir, she floated off the ground. She dashed out of the window and flew toward the moon. When Hou Yi returned home that night, he learned from the maidservants what had happened. Tearfully, he looked up into the night sky and called out the name of his beloved wife. At that moment, the moon became especially clear and bright. Hou Yi saw a shadow of his wife who was looking down at him, also in grief. Hou Yi set up an altar with incense in the garden. On the altar, he put the sweet cakes and fresh fruits that Chang E enjoyed most. Then, he held a memorial ceremony for his wife in the moon. It was the 15th day of the 8th month of the lunar year. The news that Chang E had turned into a celestial being and was living in the moon spread fast. Many people arranged altars with incense in the moonlight and prayed for the kind-hearted Chang E, the Moon Lady, to look after them." Hou Yi was desolate, mourning his beloved wife he ate little and hunted no more. The sun in revenge for its 9 brothers took special pleasure in burning him during the day. The weather was cool and soothing during the festival of the 9th moon of the lunar year. Prayers and obeisance were spoken and colorful sweets were left at the ancient well in the middle of the village where seeing the reflected moon was believed to offer great fortune for the coming month. Neighbors came to the desolate hunter's house bringing cakes and singing songs to lure him out. But the house remained dark and he would not come. Twenty eight days later came the festival of the harvest moon. Clouds covered the heavenly body's ascent and the celebration was subdued. More calls and pleas were sent to Hou Yi's dark house but none came out. No reflection shone in the old well. The celebration which in olden times lasted through morning waned early. By midnight the last villager left, backing into there house, eyes up looking for the moon. The door to Chang E's house opened. What came out would be recognized as Hou Yi. It was a pale shadow of the man; old, pale and dessicated dressed in dull sack clothe. The figured moved slowly to the village well. At the well's edge it arm moved the colorful moon cakes away to make room for a seat. Sitting he bent forward and looked into the depth. He stared until his braced arm trembled, then his whole body and there was the imminent danger of falling in. Still he looked. His reward at first was slight. A dim diffused light and that gave him strength. It grew brighter into the full moon; then sweeter into the face of his beloved. As the vision grew closer he felt it must be a dream, had he fallen in and this was death. The face below spoke "I robbed you of immortality. I am so sorry my husband" He spoke gently back, "My mourning is not for immortality. It was for the loss of you". "Kiss me my husband, there may still be a few drops of elixir on my lips". There lips touched. He felt his old strength return and the sack cloth he wore became longer, fine and colorful. The sleeves expanded to take on the colors of cakes perched upon the village well. And he rose. Since then on certain nights when the conditions are right you can see Hou Yi's arms like a rainbow, held around the moon. And Chang E allows herself to be diminished a little each day, until she appears like a bow, in honor of her husband. A bow pointing at the sun as an eternal warning, never to hurt her husband or humanity again.

Ya Mu, I have been dreaming about Stillness Movement Qigong, even though I never gave it much thought before. Upon awakening from a dream and having this on my mind, I decided I should go ahead and try it out, even though I already have a lot on my plate. Do you have any recommendations or guidelines for internal martial arts practitioners who want to practice Gift of the Tao? Like, is it good to keep practices separate, or is it okay to do the exercises before/after Xing Yi/Bagua/Tai Chi practice? Thanks