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"The awareness that we can achieve this direct transformational experience of the sacred central intelligence of our planet stands at the epicenter of the New Mysteries. It is an integral part of the re-enchantment of ourselves as well as the re-enchantment of Nature, one that may convey to us the knowledge as well as the certainty of our ecological niche within Sophia's Dream. This alone will reveal to us the shape and direction of our destiny as souls traveling across eternity...." http://www.sharedwisdom.com/article/new-mysteries-sophias-dream

I prefer the 'Egyptian outcome' . A man wanted to see inside the most sacred chamber and come face to face with the most high God. of the land, but he was told it was not allowed, only the highest priest and his assistant were allowed to do so, once a year. So the man entered temple service as one of the lowest assistants, he served and studied for years, gradually rising through the ranks. he told his teachers of his aim and they encouraged him to persevere and one day, in his old age, before he died, he may get a chance to fulfill his dream. One day, it finally came to pass, he became the High Priest's assistant. He could do nothing except talk about the approaching day, prepare himself with ritual and prayer and do everything necessary for the preparations. The day finally came, the High Priest stopped him at the final door "Are you sure you want to do this, this is your last chance, this experience will change you forever and there will be no going back to what you were before. " The man said that was the whole point of his journey. They entered the chamber and inside was a statue of Ptah, the cleaned the statue, dressed it with fresh robes, the priest left the offerings, said a prayer and lit some incense . he looked at the man, who didnt seem too impressed. So he said to him "In fact, this is really just the outer temple of the God .... are you ready now to come with me into the innermost sanctuary and see the reality of god face to face ? " "I am ". said the man, and the Priest led him to the back of the room and trough a doorway and up a spiral staircase into a tower. They climbed to the top of the stairs and came to a door. The priest asked "Are you ready to meet God ?" The man said he was, so they entered the room. It was a room on top of a square tower, it had windows all around, the priest led the man to one of them and said "Behold your God." and walked away and left the man there alone. he looked out the window .... the sky was a brilliant flawless azure blue ... a line of geese flew across the valley high overhead .... the river glittered in the sunlight, a fish jumped and made ripples ... a woman was walking up from the river, carrying a pot of water on her head and nearby he heard some children laugh ..... he stood there transfixed - watching . After a while the priest came back and placed his hand on the man's shoulder "Its time to go." the priest told him. The man turned, with a look of wonder and satisfaction on his face " Thank you," he told the priest , "Thank you for everything." And the priest was right - the man was changed, for ever .

Only close thing really I'd say was a dream/deja vu. I woke up resting my head on my counter next to my computer, it was in a house in florida, in that house and the one before weird things took place, before my practice. Anyway I woke up and notice parents were outside so I went out to get the groceries and as I went out I stood there for a second and remembered a dream (I would imagine). Where I looked up and it was completely dark and then there was just green, the closer to the center of it I could'nt see, but because the "ship" was black I could'nt really get a look at it, being my eyes were focused on the green. The green took up pretty much all I could see and was reasonably close to the ground. It was a green hue, then I just got the groceries haha. Bout it, never really wondered about it.

The outer world is the past's manifestation of habit energies of the inner world. There is not much of a difference, only timeliness. Like you imagine unicorns during the day then experience them as "real" in the dream. You are mentally hungry so you move your body and eat food, a physical manifestation... Your mentality conditions your physical actions and the coming physical reality. This is really something taken for granted by us in everyday reactions. No such thing as objective reality, only a shared dream! 2 Cents...

I have been thinking about how to utilize sleep for cultivation. I know of two methods to help make sleep easier/ improve the quality but they don't always work. I would like for this thread to be a place for people to share different methods and share their experiences. The only two methods I have been taught are as follows- Lie on right side, inhale into yintang through nose whilst seeing blue at yintang. Exhale through mouth with HA sound feeling heat leaving mouth. Do this for 9 repetitions in bed before sleep. The second is simply laying in corpse pose in bed, inhaling from pelvic floor up to chest through nose then exhaling through mouth making the Xi sound whilst having the motion move down from chest to pelvis. I have experimented with doing Anapanasati in bed while going to sleep and so far, it does not decrease length nor increase quality. It has simply deepened the amount of emptiness(no dream state) I have during sleep. I will continue to experiment. I look forward to hearing what you all do! edit- Methods that do not focus on lucid dreaming. They seem harder to find.

If some wonder about why it is important to know what the sentence "all phenomena are unborn" means Well f.e.: for meditation to be actual Buddhist meditation And to cut through samsara/nirvana simultaneously A quote from the madhyamikavatara: If reifying thoughts had substantial entities (as their objects), they would always happen But since the substantial entities have been established not to exist inherently Without substantial entities, these thoughts do not arise. For example, without firewood there is no fire ... Phenomena being unborn in the three times, means they are insubstantial All conditioned phenomena Are like a dream, an illusion, a bubble, a shadow, Like dew or a flash of lightning; Thus we shall perceive them. ~diamondsutra

Too funny... my wife got a call from her cousin in china telling her she had a dream about the lottery level and that she bought tickets... so she was frantically trying to get a hold of my wife to go buy some! First time we did it... but we got five people to give numbers

A reasonable weaving * of the way you make ' light of ' But ..... And if a bird can speak, who once was a dinosaur And a dog can dream; should it be implausible That a man might supervise The construction of light ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmnniO_lPi4 Sure ! Flop it out then .

Friday Evening Lecture: October 15, 2010 Ancient Gnosis and the Modern World Timothy Freke Those who look without dream, those who look within wake up. - C.G. Jung Carl Jung regarded the ancient Gnostics as early psychologists. This talk will explore the controversial theory that the Jesus story is an allegorical myth, created by Gnostic Christians, and is based on pre-existent Pagan myths of a dying and resurrecting godman. If seen in this way, Jesus is the hero of a spiritual parable that teaches us how to awaken and experience gnosis. Jung also said, “All old truths want a new interpretation, so that they can live on in a new form. We need to take these thought-forms, which have become historically fixed, and melt them down again and pour them into the moulds of immediate experience.” Using Jung’s ideas as a starting point, Freke will present his understanding of the ancient gnosis in a new language, making it easily accessible to the modern mind. Thus, some may understand gnosis as a state of ‘lucid living’ in which we recognize the dreamlike nature of reality. Saturday Workshop: October 16, 2010 The Experience of Gnosis Timothy Freke To explore the profound relationship between the Self and the personal ego and to become conscious of the Universal Self in ourselves and each other, participants of this workshop will be led through a number of simple but powerful ‘I to I’ exercises. We will discuss the importance of the ego for its necessary role in sustaining knowledge of the Self. Paradoxically, it is the process of individuation that allows the experience of oneness. In becoming a more distinct ‘someone,’ we can become conscious of ‘the One’. Based on his experience of lucid living, Freke will offer his understanding of the Collective Unconscious as the ground of being from which everything arises: the unconscious dreamer of the life-dream. Biography: Timothy Freke lives with his family in the UK and is an internationally respected authority on world spirituality, specializing in ancient Gnosticism. He has authored many books, including The Jesus Mysteries, a top 10 best-seller and ‘Book of the Year’ in the UK Daily Telegraph. His latest book is How Long is Now? Tim is an innovative ‘stand-up philosopher’ and has been featured in many films and documentaries in the global media, including BBC 1 and the History Channel. For more information, visit www.timothyfreke.com.

Or sometimes , one gets swept out to sea .... when the tide is strong ( a symbol of the unconscious ) " ..... Far out with the foam of the present that sweeps to the surf of the past: Where beyond the extreme sea-wall, and between the remote sea-gates, Waste water washes, and tall ships founder, and deep death waits: Where, mighty with deepening sides, clad about with the seas as with wings, And impelled of invisible tides, and fulfilled of unspeakable things, White-eyed and poisonous-finned, shark-toothed and serpentine-curled, Rolls, under the whitening wind of the future, the wave of the world. The depths stand naked in sunder behind it, the storms flee away; In the hollow before it the thunder is taken and snared as a prey; In its sides is the north-wind bound; and its salt is of all men's tears; With light of ruin, and sound of changes, and pulse of years: With travail of day after day, and with trouble of hour upon hour; And bitter as blood is the spray; and the crests are as fangs that devour: And its vapour and storm of its steam as the sighing of spirits to be; And its noise as the noise in a dream; and its depth as the roots of the sea: And the height of its heads as the height of the utmost stars of the air: And the ends of the earth at the might thereof tremble, and time is made bare. Will ye bridle the deep sea with reins, will ye chasten the high sea with rods? Will ye take her to chain her with chains, who is older than all ye Gods? All ye as a wind shall go by, as a fire shall ye pass and be past; ..... " - Swinburne http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/174559

waking to a dream stomach rumbling, empty dream dreams and memory (partial patch of incomplete gong sound)

Not sure if this is totally related to the topic.. A couple of days ago a friend and i were chatting about forming deeper connections with certain teachers, why some teachers are more cherished than others, during which she related one experience that made me recall this particular thread. A few years ago, she attended a retreat in Spain and there made a very 'open heart' sort of connection with a Buddhist lama, who was leading the retreat. To affirm her feeling, she kept in touch with the sangha in Spain in the hope of meeting the same teacher again should he return there for future teachings. He did, and each time she faithfully went to listen as he returned there to teach. One day she had a dream... in it she was visited by this lama who looked at her, and gave her this big, warm smile. She was happy with the dream, but did not really ascribe too much significance to it. Two days later she got a call from a friend, who informed her that 3 days earlier the lama had suddenly passed away. That news really made her think.

The truth is whatever they decide it is and we already have chaos. The answer will be to control the narrative and attempt to twist reality into a form which is more palatable. Eventually this pragmatism will run into a brick wall as it meets a contradictory twisted narrative hurtling towards it from the other direction. Once these social manipulators are seen to be ignoring reality then it is never long before those with poor morals will begin to see it as a free for all. If reality isn't a boundary then there isn't really any boundaries so let's all just do whatever we want. If jihadhism isn't a product of religion, then let's carry on supporting that religion and calling it peaceful. The West has become so convinced of its omnipotentence by narrative control that it is blind to external aggression. The West pretends flag waving, political consensus and tough talk is effective action. It's deluded and weak. Reality will run us down before we wake up from this self imposed dream state.

Hey there, I agree with you all the way. I have contacted people. The thing is if you do it through your waking life. You have a chance, a very good big chance of picking up a bunch of low level lieing spirits... You would need to already be in contact with your spirit guide to help you find him. It is not impossible. But it needs to be done right and with protection. There are beings out there that if you start opening up yourself and home, they would love to come on in and give you a hard time at the very least... So as this poster said dream walking is great... And there is OBE, but you are going into the astral plain and you have the same problem with contacting low level spirits... So this poster has great advise and may can give you some pointers on dream walking. I have only done it by accident... I don't know how to go on my own account... But we would all love a lesson if you are up to it... Take care Melanie

Dream

Are we going to fall back into the old solipsism debate. Or, the whole universe is one giant Buddha mind. Or, another choice would be that all phenomena are part of the Buddha's dream? My point is that even calling it Buddha mind is an objectification which is an error. These arguments are very boring!

I am about to finish chapter 11 of 鹿鼎記 . I enjoyed myself very much to this point. It is estimated 1,230 k chinese characters are in this book subdivided into 50 chapters. Or that I have read 200k of chinese characters in a form so much better that rote learning. This saga will be coming to a temporary hiatus soon. I have planned to travel to Spain for 2 months or so prior to South America and Belize to check if yuan feng will make my retirement place somewhere there. I need to see if I can get a bit into Spainish language firs. So I am thinking of reading Don Quixote in Spanish the way I done so in Chinese. Prior to that I really must update my Livejournal as to that episode in Nepal. Also as a memorial to many of the Nepali friends who seemed to have disappeared. And to show case my photos of Khatmandu and places which do not exist anymore. And also that chapter of life in Riyadh , Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. Al that must be done before I leave for Spain likely early Feb this year. In the meanwhile, I had mentioned of Or get Chinese sex stories if you inclined to those. Even be a class above by reading Ching Ping Mei 金瓶梅 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jin_Ping_Mei May your joy for lust propel you deeper into the Chinese world. 金瓶梅 Jin Ping Mei From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jin Ping Mei (Chinese: 金瓶梅; pinyin: Jīn Píng Méi) — translated into English as The Plum in the Golden Vase or The Golden Lotus — is a Chinese naturalistic novel composed in vernacular Chinese during the lateMing Dynasty (1368–1644). The anonymous author took the pseudonym Lanling Xiaoxiao Sheng (蘭陵笑笑生), "The Scoffing Scholar of Lanling,"[1] and his identity is otherwise unknown (the only clue being that he hailed from Lanling in present-day Shandong).[2] The novel circulated in manuscript as early as 1596, and may have undergone revision up to its first printed version in 1610. The most widely read version, edited and published with commentaries by Zhang Zhupo in 1695, unfortunately accepted the deletion and rewriting of many passages.[3] The graphically explicit depiction of sexuality garnered the novel a notoriety in China akin to Fanny Hill and Lolita in English literature, but critics such as the translator David Tod Roy see a firm society structure which exacts retribution for the sexual libertinism of the central characters.[4] Jin Ping Mei takes its name from the three central female characters — Pan Jinlian (潘金蓮, whose given name means "Golden Lotus"); Li Ping'er (李瓶兒, given name literally means, "Little Vase"), a concubine of Ximen Qing; and Pang Chunmei (龐春梅, "Spring plum blossoms"), a young maid who rose to power within the family.[2] Chinese critics see each of the three Chinese characters in its title as symbolizing an aspect of human nature, such as mei (梅), plum blossoms, is metaphoric for sexuality. Princeton University Press, in describing the Roy translation, calls the novel "a landmark in the development of the narrative art form – not only from a specifically Chinese perspective but in a world-historical context...noted for its surprisingly modern technique" and "with the possible exception of The Tale of Genji (c. 1010) and Don Quixote (1605, 1615), there is no earlier work of prose fiction of equal sophistication in world literature."[5] Plot Chapter 4 illustration of Jing Ping Mei. Jin Ping Mei is framed as a spin-off from Water Margin. The beginning chapter is based on an episode in which "Tiger Slayer" Wu Song avenges the murder of his older brother by brutally killing his brother's former wife and murderer, Pan Jinlian. The story, ostensibly set during the years 1111–27 (during the Northern Song Dynasty), centers on Ximen Qing (西門慶), a corrupt social climber and lustful merchant who is wealthy enough to marry six wives and concubines. After secretly murdering Pan Jinlian's husband, Ximen Qing takes her as one of his wives. The story follows the domestic sexual struggles of the women within his household as they clamor for prestige and influence amidst the gradual decline of the Ximen clan. In Water Margin, Ximen Qing was brutally killed in broad daylight by Wu Song; in Jin Ping Mei, Ximen Qing in the end dies from an overdose of aphrodisiacs administered by Jinlian in order to keep him aroused. The intervening sections, however, differ in almost every way from Water Margin.[6] In the course of the novel, Ximen has 19 sexual partners, including his 6 wives and mistresses. There are 72 detailed sexual episodes.[7] Ximen and Golden Lotus, illustration from 17th-century Chinese edition For centuries identified as pornographic and officially banned most of the time, the book has nevertheless been read surreptitiously by many of the educated class. The early Qing dynasty critic Zhang Zhupo remarked that those who regard Jin Ping Mei as pornographic "read only the pornographic passages."[8] The influential author Lu Xun, writing in the 1920s, called it "the most famous of the novels of manners" of the Ming dynasty, and reported the opinion of the Ming dynasty critic, Yuan Hongdao, that it was "a classic second only to Shui Hu Zhuan." He added that the novel is "in effect a condemnation of the whole ruling class."[9] The American scholar and literary critic Andrew H. Plaks ranks Jin Ping Mei as one of the "Four Masterworks of the Ming Novel" along with Romance of the Three Kingdoms, Water Margin, and Journey to the West, which collectively constitute a technical breakthrough and reflect new cultural values and intellectual concerns.[10] The story contains a surprising number of descriptions of sexual objects and coital techniques that would be considered fetish today, as well as a large amount of bawdy jokes and oblique but still titillating sexual euphemisms. Some critics have argued that the highly sexual descriptions are essential, and have exerted what has been termed a "liberating" influence on other Chinese novels that deal with sexuality, most notably the Dream of the Red Chamber. David Roy, the novel's most recent translator, sees an "uncompromising moral vision," which he associates with the philosophy of Xunzi, who held that human nature is evil and can be redeemed only through moral transformation.[8] Since is is very unlikely that anyone reading this note will start on that book in Chinese, I thought I still try my bit to make the horses drink after I brought and dragged them to the water trough. Here is a very good movie of that in youtube. Never mind the english translation of the title which is useless as most English translation of Chinese. You see the movie title in Chinese is 金瓶梅 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8cUNwKQiD4 You will get the chinese characters as subtitles with no English to distract you. You see the different beauties and the glory of a chinese whore house in all splendour of Song Dynasty. Do try to focus on the chinese characters and not be too distracted by our hero as he frolic about with his hands and other things and seducing to the right and fornicating to the left with girls and nuns. As much as you enjoy the movie, do remember the written book always will be much more powerful than any movies attempted of books. What the book can paint into your mind will be even more than what the movie will print into your eyeballs. Idiotic Taoist about to say adios to this saga into Chinese language

No, you dont get it ! As I am not saying that. I can tell you want a lot more than that, I think this is just reactionary . I dont get how that statement and the vid clip go together So, revert to hopelessness and blame it on me, because I point out you have misused Rumi ? DB , Rumi is sending you an important message, look for a different meaning in it. It is actually pretty clear what he is saying. Why do you feel a need to get me an over the top possession that I could not use anyway ? Of course I wasnt serious about you getting me an AeroMobile 3.0 for Xmas ! Would you not rather use that money for good, maybe help someone instead, starving children , the homeless, etc ? That applies to a lot of us, I doubt no one is free of some area in their life where their understanding of certain things is messed up. Nope ! That guy in your Vid didnt give up and stop trying did he ? I already have explained it to you, its in the posts between us . Basically two things ; 1. Get your elemental hierarchy sorted out: Fire; your vision, inspiration , aspiration, 'True Will', individuation ( and , as I said, you need to develop your individuation more ! ). Water; Your inner world, subconscious, feelings, emotions, empathies. How do you 'feel' deep down about what comes from your fire, any specific aim or plan. Run it through the unconscious, sleep and dream on it . Air; Analyse it , use your intellect and brain power, does it make 'sense' , is it logical . Work out practical ways to bring your plan into action and manifestation. Earth; DO something about , take the step, study the above, look up and learn about concepts in the above you dont understand, jo on the journey, throw yourself in the river ... bring all 3 above into harmony and act on them. 2; Ask for what you need , not what you think you want. And ..... .... be grateful for what you do have, give constant thanks and appreciation (this doesnt mean that you accept that 'it doesnt get any better than this' ) . Bark and wag your tail ! * IF what you ask, you perceive comes from God, live in and appreciate God. If what you ask, you perceive comes from 'Mother nature' , live in, be aware of her gifts, give thanks and appreciation to nature .... make offerings . Does none of this sound familiar ? We have talked about it before. * " A dog, without reason or comprehension, when hungry, comes up to you and wags its tail as if to say, “Give me food. I am hungry by the sight of that food you have. Please give me some.” A dog knows that much. Are you less than a dog? The dog is not content to sleep in ashes and say, “If he wants to he will throw me some food,” but begs and wags its tail. So should you wag your tail and beg of God, for in the presence of such a Giver, to ask is the expression of a wonderful desire. If you lack good fortune, ask from One who is not stingy " Rumi - Discourse 45.

In any tradition I've read about spirit travel is considered quite a tricky thing, and you need someone to guide and protect you to do this. Shamans have alliances with helper spirits, and human assistants (there are two Ren in the Wu character, right ?). Tibetan dream yoga needs Guru Yoga and asking for protection from the Dakini, etc...

Hey, Well you know where I got Dream Police from don't you? That is cool about the dream catchers, I love Native American people and things... Mel

A seer true, To spy on you For from heaven's eye, Thou cannot hide. The merchant you paid dear, To supply an army unsettled. The uncanny dream born into Seed in your strategician's mind. Fear not my friend, for your Cause is just - in time Dreams will converge to Unite those who trust.

In good Winter Solstice form I slept about 14 hours and had potent dreams. Tonight will be multiple stillness sessions and then some more dream work. Happy Solstice fellow oneironauts!

Hey dude!!! I am a musician and long time practitioner too so I know where you're coming from. 1st of all, a great book you definitely should read to get a deep understanding here is "drumming the spirit to life"; by Russell Buddy Helm. This man is one of few that helps convey the meditative path that lies in being a musician. T(d)oism is really just a word to describe something wordless. It's funny really when you think about it. So the point is, just because I'm a Taoist/Buddhist, or whatever, doesn't mean I don't ever say anything. Saying something is sometimes necessary to help another in the path of realisation. Music is a form of language, a play of form only. It's a pointer, or a sign to an experience. That is why we can feel the story in a song. Just as we do a poem or piece of art. Chap, if you meditate regularly, and realise your ultimate nature through direct experience of it, these kinds of questions will answer themselves, because you already have all the wisdom waiting in the unlimited nature we all share as our true root or nature (words eh?, they just don't quite cut it : )). For now though, in case you don't go and get started on meditating yourself, keep in mind that individuality is actually irrelevant at the deepest level. It doesn't really exist at all apart from our interdependent experience of it; it is a projection by the mind, that we experience. Look at it yourself. Can the seemingly separate experience exist without the mind to perceive it? What happens when you dream? Looks and feels real doesn't it? Is it real? Words again : / Scientists are proving that matter itself is inherently interdependent on something to perceive it as matter, through examining the deepest elements they've found like quarks etc. Einstein had this understanding pegged as a theory years ago. He's worth checking out aswell. If you want advice on direct exercises you can do to see this stuff for yourself directly, let me know. There are some great teachers and books, but there's also a lot of vague re-hashed stuff out there. I don't want to talk too much on this so I'll leave it to you to further experience - personal experience being the most important, you can't swim by reading a book about it. "The way cannot be put in to words". So moving on, as individuality is a misconception; everything we live is more like a ride or dream than a individual experience. SO, even these words, and 'you' reading them. So what if it's not real!! The point is, is it useful? Does the communication help wake you up out of misconception/suffering or harm you? That's what's important. A great quote by the Buddha (Siddhartha Gautama) on this is - "Only speak if speaking improves on silence" Sometimes sharing your honest story can help another to realise something important in themselves. Like how to be honest themselves, or they may see a virtuous principle hidden in your words. This is why integrity in musical sharing is a powerful force for positive cultural change, especially for someone like you, who is walking the path of realisation and communication all at once. That can really make a difference. When I grew up, I went through a lot of physical and emotional abuse. Good healthy honest music is what gave me the strength to not kill myself for fear of waking up to another day of suffering. It can be that powerful. Someone mentioned Jimi (Hendrix) earlier. I recommend you check out some of his interviews and you'll see he felt the same way. He is still revered for his great work. Why? A number of reasons, too long to include here. I am not advocating we all as musicians need to copy him and take up acid or anything like he did ... ... I didn't need to to get a realisation of all this stuff. I'll go more in to my past some other time. Walk your path bro. Be honest and get a personal taste of these wonderful teachings we've been blessed with by hard working dedicated spiritual practitioners; musicians, poets, artists, comedians, speakers, teachers etc that actually cared. Because they knew we're all one mind, some didn't but still shared virtuous principles like integrity and insight, which can be life changing for some. Blessings chap, I hope that clears it up for you, but feel free to ask me any questions you have on it bro : )))) Phew ... longest post yet ... hahahaa

Sorry. I Just check the forum once a day. My loss. Once you come you thread upon your principles. In various ways. First of all most of us are not able to have properly sex WITH their body, but would instead have sex to the fantasies. This brings two problems: 1) you are getting your hormonal to fire on some fantasies, thus confusing fantasy and reality 2) often the conjured fantasies would balance some deep internal need. A person who feel powerless in his life might dream to be an all powerfull god. Or viceversa, a manager to whom this society have given more power than what he can safetly handle might dream to be a slave. There is a nice story in chuang tzu about this. And I have personally read blogs of prostitutes describing this as a common partner among their clients Often in thos fantasies a person might do things they wold never do in real life. This creates a fracture between their higher shen (who would not do those actions) and their pulsion (who just need to balance themselves, quite mechanically). Recovering this fracture is a major step that needs to be adressed in order for the crisis to be over. All this does not happen if you just have sex with your body remaining present in reality all the time. If your body REALLY needs to release (i.e. empty the balls) it become quite possible, but if you are using sex compulsively to balance some deeper problems, it will just not work. And if you force your mind to remain in reality, as soon as you come you will have lost part of your power and the compulsion will kick in. Or you simply feel that whatever needed to be balanced by the ejaculation, that every other time got balanced, is not getting balanced this time. And this bring to the positive side of ejaculation with fantasy: your mind expands, and your nervous system releases all the tension gathered. The fact that the nervous system need to be relaxed is maybe the biggest single thing that gets adressed in the water method and totally ignored in the HT. The inner smile is supposed to do that, but for most people it just doesn't. The fact that we need to let our mind expand, especially after hours passed in front of a computer, and release our tension is a big reason why most people in modern time are compulsive about sex with sexual fantasies. Then to complete the topic about how ejaculation shakes the relation between higher self and lower self, there is the whole issue of expectations: most practitioners have irrealistic expectation about their ability to retain. Also because they adopt the indian philosophy of practicing as their (head!) hair were on fire, they would actually do 150% of what their retention ability actually is. Where 100% is how far you can reach _in_a_safe_way_. Now, once you reach 100% something kicks on, and greed start to push you. Now you are really moving your boundaries on. In this sense reaching 100% is bad news. But it feels so much as good news. Then when they invariably fall, not only they ejaculate, but this break their dream of invincibility. And this harms them even more then the loss of jing. Suddenly they feel human again. And mortal. For them they will feel back whole when they recognise the ejaculation as their error, and recover their illusion of invulnerability. But as you can imagine this is just temporarily, and what all this yoyo movement does thrugh the years is to split the mind. It is a road to insanity. Let's clarify, not for all. Some are naturally chaste (Fajin from the other board comes to mind, although I don't really know), and some are just not interested anymore in sex (Harry Pain might be a good example here). But when chastity is taken in the wrong way or at the wrong age or for the wrong reasons, troubles awaits. But this splits between your higher self and your lower pulsion is much harder to really heal. I myself am not over it yet, so I have a hard time in explaining. My guess is that it require to adopt the 70% philosophy here too. Having a strong commitment to not pushing yourself over that limit. So if you can have retention safetly for 2 weeks only do it for 10 days. The chose to come. And since you chose to do it, you might even do it while keeping your mind in reality. And once you can do 10 days with no effort (which means 14+1 in a safe way) strive to do 11 days. And since you have chosen to come after 10 days you have not broken your vow by coming. So the hormonal have kept respect for the shen and only fired after the vow was over, on the other hand the shen have respected the hormonal by not taking a vow that was irrealistic, dangerous, greedy and stupid. And everybody is happy. Does this answer your question Thaddeus? Pietro

Dream on, Stosh Tzu. Your men are poorly trained? Ha! Mine can break a brick without touching it! Except for the ones I use as a bait, those are expendable, of course.