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I guess pointing out the myriad failings of the co2 based agw fright models isnt enough? and of course, whatever evidence I give up, I immediately get a comment like we've seen a million times over from ralis, and if that all fails, then hide behind peer review. I dont understand what's so hard about admitting the models dont replicate reality well - the the more weighty the co2 coefficient, the worse the predictions and quicker they break and start making unphysical predictions outside of reality. who's the burden of proof on here anyway - I'm not the one conjuring up ideas, marrying them with bad statistics, then making unphyisical claims about what my dream world construct says the world will be like - all the while watching the real world data diverge from it... ah, no matter - let's set that start date for the model run back to today and then for an extremely short time it'll make some semblance of realistic result and we'll claim the models are once again sound, now please pay a carbon tithe. you guys are getting old - posting model output as reality, then having a problem with what I say when I call it out. *shrugs*

Check out Chuang-Tzu's Butterfly Dream. Google that...have fun!

In your dream, so long you realize that you're dreaming, you can control your dream if yout want. At very least, you can fly. In your daily life, I don't know how you can wake up from that.

Dreams are funny things. They are spontaneous and sporadic. And talk about wierd! But even though most times it is just the brain making random connections I think that almost always, somewhere within the dream, and often very well hidden, is a reflection of something we have been having thoughts on while we are awake and we haven't yet resolved that whatever. Yeah, and sometimes they do get really scarey.

I have had a long string of vivid dreams and nightmares. Lucid is the term for me...when I was actually inside the dream...literally things would start happening to my body...to the point where I could no longer tell the difference between being awake of asleep. Are you going through any particularly tough times at the moment? To cut a long story short, mine occurred at a time of great distress...but joining the dots they had great spiritual meaning yes, and led to further visions in meditation and eventually, paved a path to salvation/liberation from what I perceived to be "hitting rock bottom"...

This interests me as well. I never remember my dreams. I cant recall the last time I had a dream.

You can do wake induced lucid dreaming, but it won't be dream yoga. You can do yoga, but it won't be trul khor. You can recognize ma bcos shes pa skad cig ma like Zen people, but you won't be a Dzogchenpa.

Its an initiation that gives you permission for dream yoga, trul khor etc. It doesn't give you permission for every practice, but for many.

It is nothing to worry about. I verifies the first Absolute Bodhicitta proverb (that is, saying that are designed to awaken bodhicitta), which is, "look at everything you perceive as a dream." How often do you look at things during a day? Whatever that amount, say the first Absolute Bodhicitta proverb for every look. LOL Whether Buddhism or Daoism,...that is the quickest way to the Dao. The Dao is in the Present,...if you want to understand the Dao, you must uncover the Present. There is no Present in time,...thus the Dao will never be understood within time. One cannot see things the way they are with that which arises from time. Everything that arises from time can only see the past. If you have no desire to be in the Present,...the real Present that is, not the perceived present,...then you are a Man #2 or less,...according to the Fourth Way, Fourth Stream, and various Short Path analogies. Nothing wrong with Man #2, or Man #1,...except that they see supernormal as abnormal. In the Valley of the Blind, the one-eyed man is treated for his illness. thelerner is one of their social workers.

Tibetan Ice, You said, Your statement about siddhis is kind of disturbing to me. I'm never happy to hear about gurus who caution about siddhis and then don't demonstrate any. It always seems like a cop-out to me, like they are hiding the fact that they don't have the ability, are not realized, or at least, don't know the proper technique… I also find it strange that you can say "I was describing my interaction with my subconscious mind… and how the subconscious mind of every person has access to all the knowledge and powers of the universe..' and yet cannot demonstrate what that statement actually means. Or perhaps you don't want to demonstrate? If I could walk through walls or fly, I would never tell anyone because I would become a target.. Some things are best kept secret. …………………………………………… I am glad you understand that although I am a dawg, I am not a performing dawg that does tricks on demand… Don’t be disturbed by what I say below… read it carefully and understand it… don't judge it… if you are ripe and ready for it, you will see the truth of it… if you are not ripe for it now, it will lay dormant in your mind and perhaps be useful to you later… I assume you aspire to awakening… and from what you describe of your practice, you have attained much… your efforts have not been in vain… but you need to be more systematic and cover all bases, if you ignore some things, they will become your weaknesses… and if you aspire to awakening, not once did you mention the most important thing of all… THE DESTRUCTION OF DELUSION, WHICH “IS” AWAKENING… delusion (mundane reality) is located in the subconscious mind, the 6th chakra. but only the conscious mind, the 7th chakra can destroy delusion… if you destroy delusion you would attain awakening, and all your attainments would come together, giving you everything you desire… you can develop as many siddhis as you want, and still not be awake (enlightened), or any closer to awakening… you need to purify the conscious mind (7th chakra), and use it to destroy delusion (purify the 6th chakra) the subconscious mind, to be awakened… and unless you are awakened, delusion controls 100% of your subconscious mind (the 6th chakra), and 95% of your conscious mind (7th chakra)… so if delusion controls your conscious mind 95% of the time… the siddhis, which are powers of the subconscious mind, would be under the control of delusion for at least 95% of the time… and you would be unaware of it… Because your deluded subconscious mind with powers would subconsciously control you… At present, your mind is filled with thoughts (the voice of your mind, delusion), and you react to them… in other words, you “think and react”… but if you were awakened, your mind would always be empty of thoughts, and you would “know and act” instead… until you can purify your mind of thoughts (mundane reality, the conditioned reflex reactions (thoughts) that other people have filled your subconscious mind with), you would be unable to control any powers that you may attain… In short, you now have no control of your subconscious mind… zero… and you cannot control your conscious mind 95% of the time… to control the powers that the subconscious mind is capable of… you need to control your conscious mind and your subconscious mind 100 % of the time… …………………………………………… Norbu says that he remains in a deep dream-like state during his waking hours. I think part of the formula is to be asleep while you are awake, so that everyday existence becomes the dream that it really is. Once you realize this, that's when you really wake up. So, the method would be to dig as deep as you can while maintaining a connection to normal consciousness, so you can fuse the two together. …………………………………………… The dream is the world of delusion, the “mundane reality”, the hypnotic trance that you now live in… and yes, you are asleep… not just you, but everybody who has not awakened… you can intellectually realize that you are in a hypnotic dream, but you are still totally asleep… only when you destroy delusion, do you wake up from the dream… and it literally is like waking up from a dream… which is why people call it “awakening”… …………………………………………… NOTE… THE VOICE OF YOUR KARMA The conditioned reflex responses in your deluded subconscious mind are your karma… the voice of your subconscious mind that is always talking to your conscious mind, is the “voice of your karma’… this is how your karma controls your life… the voice is always telling you to act in ways that lead you to, and produces results that “are your karma”… for example, if it is your karma to be rich, the voice of your subconscious mind will lead you to riches, because that is how it is programmed… if it is your karma to be poor, the voice will lead you to poverty, again because that is how it is programmed… if it is your karma to commit suicide, the voice will drive you to suicide… if it is your karma to develop a fatal disease, the voice will act on the subconscious mind to produce it… if it is your karma to have a beautiful body and face, the voice will act on the subconscious mind to make your body and face beautiful… unless you are awakened, your karma controls the powers of your subconscious mind… When you destroy delusion and awaken, you are destroying your karma… so that you are destroying the voice of your karma... your conscious mind is totally and permanently transformed… it is now blissfully empty, and serenely peaceful… you don’t “think”, you “know”… you don’t “react”, you “act”… it is always “now”… you feel more “normal” than you have ever felt before, and you realize that this is obviously the way physical human existence is supposed to be… Dawg

check out dream moods dictionary; http://dreammoods.com/cgibin/dreamdictionarysearch.pl?method=exact&header=dreamsymbol&search=dog

Yep, back to "stay in the moment" again. There is no point to worry if I'm awake/insane/dead/enlighted. Whether I enjoy the moment is more important to me. I'd rather live in a good fancy "dream" than a harsh "reality".

Several philosophies suggest that there are 7 levels of humanity. One way to analogize this for discussion is the prison construct. Roughly 84% - 95% of humanity are considered Man #1 ( or level 1),…they are in prison, but don’t realize they are in prison (or the dream). Man #2 (a term used by Gurdjieff and Kagyu Buddhism), suspects they are in prison (a dream) and become as prison trustees,…exploiting the prison for their perceived harmony,…This level is said to amount to about 5% -15% of humanity (although I find 2% - 3% more likely). Man #3, who is said to represent about .04% of humanity, understands that they are in prison, and seek way to get out. To get out of the box, so to say. Man #4 has a consciousness that pivots from out of the box. The higher levels of humanity are of no concern here,…because 99.6% could not understand it if someone at that level were standing in front of them. Lao Tzu said, "To attain pure Tao you must understand and integrate within yourself the three main energies of the universe: The first is the Earth energy (Man #1). Centered in the belly, itexpresses itself as sexuality. Those who cultivate and master the physical energy attain partial purity; Second is the Heaven energy (Man #2). Centered in the mind, it expresses itself as knowledge and wisdom. Those whose minds merge with the Universal Mind also attain partial purity. Third is the Harmonized energy (Man #3). Centered in the heart, it expresses itself as spiritual insight. Those who develop spiritual insight also attain partial purity. Only when you attain all three - mastery of physical energy, universal mindedness, and spiritual insight - and express them in a virturous integral life, can you attain pure Tao (Man #4)" I posted this in the Pit,…because at least 1 moderator here is a hardcore Man #1, meaning, fully enclosed in the “box”…and will likely toss it into the Pit anyway,…because it doesn’t meet with their Western media-ted theocratic opinions. For the few open-hearted enough to get the point,…that is, those who realize the delusion of the “box”…and instead, wish to know the Tao, which is not in the box,,…the 7 Levels of humanity points to a consciousness that is outside the “box”…and a very different way of viewing things,…which Man #1 and Man #2 will see as an extreme threat to their ego beliefs.

When I was little I used to have a lot of nightmares. In one dream I went lucid when the bad guy almost killed me and I time traveled to the moment before and went outside the house. Outside I saw lots of grass and something running through it. It looked like a dog and had red eyes, the description fit the nightmare dogs that they say live all over Europe and probably where I lived. It attacked me and made me wake up, since then I had only nightmarish dogs in my dreams. They all had weird legs, kinda like this: I would get chased, bitten and jumped. Always had them around in my dreams and still do. Sometimes I would be running away with some other kids and one night we saw one of these dogs sitting somewhere chained. Other kids were very freaked out and I had a strange idea of walking up to it and petting it. It was very scary but I still went. I petted the dog and said that it was OK but the other kids were still scared and I woke up. Since then I would rarely have nightmares in a traditional sense. The dogs would come back and be very very scary but they were my friends now. In one dream the whole neighborhood was abandoned because everyone was afraid of wolves. I was walking around and a wolf saw me, so I ran. It chased me and some other wolves joined the chase. Then I saw something that looked like a safe place, I thought that I was safe but the wolves ran ahead of me and I was scared that they would get me... but they were just playing with me, even though I was running because they scared me lol. In another dream a huge dog jumped me and I fought it. When I thought I won, it turned into an injured person and said, "Come closer, I have to tell you something" when I did so, he turned back into a dog and with a horrifying bark like voice said, "It's morning time to wake up" I would also sometimes see a dog chase some kids around but they never hurt me, they felt like an entity too and they kept away nightmares from me this whole time. With that in mind, I don't think what you've done might have been a right thing

I've had a couple growing up... Eventually went Kali on their ass and chopped em down... My current worship, Nature, breath-work, dream-work, living in love.

Hahaha. The very night I posted this I had a very interesting encounter with a old zomibe ghost looking spirit. Had a very old raspy voice. In this dream I was randomly experiencing some boys youth as this kid was being branded on the leg, sort of like how farmers brand cattle. I did not FEEL this branding, but I did perceive it. But did not notice what it said. I noticed I was in some kind of basement of sorts as well. Randomly after the branding, a certain side of the basement had changed its surrounding to a very old wall like structure. Old, dirty, and grey. There were two sets of windows, I became the young boy through a sense of one-ness and had looked into the windows and noticed a strange ghost flying around. Before I woke up, I had heard the spirit say with its raspy voice "knock knock" in my right ear. I woke up and DID NOT invite it in. Not out of fear, but this spirit seems like one of those who were stubborn as all hell. Strange experience. I have had several spirits seek to 'knock' to engage with me in dreams and in waking life. It is a bit surreal and rather interesting how manors are upheld in such a way.

I saw a cop today again in the astral who stopped me. I was trying to climb a fence to get into some movie theater it seems. The entire dream made no sense. A bunch of random police cars and fire engines. I witnessed some kind of accident in the astral as well.

what is this energy then in my dream???? is it a spiritual being or something?

Ok, looks like you are sensitive to spirit beings. First, you must not attach to appearances. Regardless if the entities are from the lower or higher realms. Frankly, you don't know or it does not matter as soon as you are interacting with them. Learn to see them with your third eye. I dream of ghost and spirits plenty. My latest encounter was a pretty tall woman. I supposed she was attractive but I didn't look at her face until I told her that she was dead. Apparently, she wanted me to go to Florida with her. I realized that that was not possible because she was already dead. If I actually go to Florida, I would be actually going there by myself. Isn't fun. In this dream, I even had to show her that she was dead. Putting her hands on a hot stove and she didn't feel a thing. You must have compassion. See the entities the way they truly are. Don't judge them by the appearances.

Does anyone know what this strong whirlwind of energy is in dreams? This happened twice. Last night and couple months ago. Chanting mantras didn't do anything so I don't know if this energy is good or bad. It's a strong energy feeling, like a small whirlwind in a room. It doesn't seem bad, nor seem good, just neutral I guess. I don't see anything but I know something is there in my dream. Just can't get my fingers on what it is exactly.

Yeah, I think that's why there was a low vibration entity in my dream/nightmare today. The statues in the boxes are sitting in the living room and the living room is next to my room... I think they attach themselves to buddha statues in hopes of a buddhist guru that will liberate them when he bless/ cast light to the statues.

Great. Maybe you want a make over to sell more of your real cheese? I used to do wine/beer demo at local liqure store. The idea was not to sell the product, but to sell an image, a life style or a dream. If every thing else fails, sex always sells. I'd think something like this will sell "Qi Gong last longer and stronger". Or you may come up with something for office cubicle workers. With so many stiff necks, slouch shoulders and itch hands, it may sell well. Good luck.

Is it that the world is actually created by the mind, or is it that there is an objective reality but our perception is subjective? I disagree with the former, because it begs the questions of what stimuli prompted our first thoughts, and how we managed to lose the ability to consciously mould reality as in a lucid dream, in the first place. JMHO. Issues like these are really things to realise at higher levels of cultivation, not to try to intellectually wrangle out, so I may well be wrong.

Malik: Sure, but bear in mind that I don't fully comprehend it myself. Five years ago I got some understanding, now, I see it differently, ten years from now I will understand with new and much more depth; it has to do with my own practice and merits. So don't be locked by what I say, and consider always seeking for new depths and not letting any truths become stale and intellectual. The relevant passage is from the book "Working Toward Enlightenment", p. 204. Indeed you are correct: The Shurangama sutra definitely has bearing here, and is discussed in the two books. You have to string together all the wisdom and teachings in both volumes to understand what he points at; stupid people are unable to do this. Health, illness, forms, shapes, qi, all expressions of the six senses belong to the form skandha. Emptying this out, in the context that he speaks about, is a wisdom attainment, not just non-focus on these phenomena when you are sitting on your cushion. When you completely empty out the form skandha, consider it like a mirror which reflects forms - whatever they are - but they do not stick to it. Your mind after this achievement is not attaching, fusing, identifying to any form. You don't push your sixth consciousness habitually into a body of any sort, into form, you don't clutch your qi to your body, or hold on to it out of habit. You've firmly established that the real Source of "you", is beyond any form, and hence in one way it does not matter if your body ages, if it gets ill, if it is muscular, beautiful, is filled with qi etc. Whatever you do - sit, walk, eat, speak, run, dream - this revolution of your mind continues, and is not a fleeting glimpse of insight. At the moment of death, if you empty out the five skandhas, and you are not bound by feelings or sensations, then of course you don't just get sucked into oblivion. To get some better understanding, buy the book(s) and read the whole chapter so that you get the context and the exact quote (he does NOT say that " if the body is sick then you can't empty out the mind at your last breath and so your spirit just goes into the void"). Wish you the best, Mandrake

Hi Dawg Thank you so much for taking the time and effort to write back to me. When I first experienced the massive amounts of thoughts/visions/scenery, I was doing a form of concentrative meditation. I was visualizing the mantra "I AM" as a long stream of letters: aaaaaayyyeeeeeeeaaaaaaaammmmmm while repeating the mantra with shambhavi and tongue on palette. After three weeks of being submerged in this tornado of cascading imgages/thoughts/visions, I decided that that wasn't meditation so I started questioning and examining Patanjali's samyama.. long story there. I'll spare you. I've been doing anapanasati for the last six months or so along with a Dzogchen practice of watching and dissolving thoughts (seperately). It is the watching of thoughts, watching them dissolve that brings me back to the tornado of cascading images/thoughts/visions.. So basically, the two different methods make arrive at the same place. Yes, my third eye is wide open. I can pretty well see visions and the astral planes any time I want. The easiest for me seem to be to just visualize the letter "A" surrounded by circles of blue, green, red, yellow and white directly at the third eye (1 inch behind the brow). Then, I just sound "Ahhhhhh" and it opens.. Kind of like watching TV.. I just pick a scene and push out into it. Your statment about siddhis is kind of disturbing to me. I'm never happy to hear about gurus who caution about siddhis and then don't demonstrate any. It always seems like a cop-out to me, like they are hiding the fact that they don't have the ability, are not realized, or at least, don't know the proper techinique.. I also find it strange that you can say "I was describing my interaction with my subconscious mind… and how the subconscious mind of every person has access to all the knowledge and powers of the universe..' and yet cannot demonstrate what that statement actually means. Or perhaps you don't want to demonstrate? If I could walk through walls or fly, I would never tell anyone because I would become a target.. Some things are best kept secret. But you do realize that siddhis have their purpose.. Have you ever read any Milerepa or Rechungpa? They use their siddhis to convince disciples of the authenticity of their teachings.. For example, read this: link: http://buddha.nimmersoft.dk/rechungpa1.htm I've read in many places that once someone understands emptiness, or becomes awakened, the siddhis are just normal play. I look at it this way. If life is just a dream, you should be able to do everything you can that you can do in a dream, like fly, manifest objects, heal people, walk through walls etc.. I also do understand that seeking only the icing on the cake ignores the fact that you first need a cake to put the icing on. So I'm trying to believe your statement that "the subconscious mind of every person has access to all the knowledge and powers of the universe.." yet without evidence, it is hard for me to believe that you can claim to be awakened. On the other side of the coin, I can see where interest is a deciding factor. I used to astral travel a long time ago, when I would look for my hands in my dreams. After exploring many other planes, I kind of lost interest. To me, the astral planes are just like this plane, full of objects and forms... there are so many that they just make me lose interest. Even now, when I see the scenes appear at the third eye, I note them and then wonder who it is that is watching them, and hope I get a full night's sleep. I've also checked out 5 past lives, but for 4 of them I used a full-body crystal layout. The last life I checked out just came to me when I was doing anapanasati on the lower dantien. The past lives are stored there, you know.. They appear in bubbles that open up into tunnels. But I think you are definately on to something. Norbu says that he remains in a deep dream-like state during his waking hours. I think part of the formula is to be asleep while you are awake, so that everyday existence becomes the dream that it really is. Once you realize this, that's when you really wake up. So, the method would be to dig as deep as you can while maintaining a connection to normal consciousness, so you can fuse the two together.. Anyway, thanks again for the conversation. I wish you all the best on your journey. TI