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Fear is life, fear is good. Life is suffering too. Suffering is good. How much life can you bare ? How much suffering is ideal for you ? A lot of fear, he said, and very little suffering. Leave me some serenity so I can enjoy what is taken. Does suffering have roots? What makes it grow? What are the roots for? In what do they ground themselves? What goes through them? My niece said: I have to suffer so I can compare with Snow White and Cinderella. My roots are self love and will to grandeur. My needs are a Prince and fights so we love eachother. I am in fear of not suffering and getting a boring life. It is enough for me to feel alive. It is not too much so I don't realise I am dying. My niece goes dancing and singing "once upon a dream". If life is a triangle and fear is the hypothenuse, then the square root of fear equals two squared stuff put together and there is something about a circle all around. I am gRoot.

In the interest of pushing this conversation in the direction of Hassein's original question, I have decided to share one of my earlier experiences, as I wrote it at the time. Some background may be helpful. At the time, I had been having OBEs once every few days. With a few exceptions, I would find myself confined to a particular location with no other intelligences around. Any attempt to leave would result in immediate return to my physical body or on one occasion, a deliberate intercession by a dark entity which took on a shadow form. I have several observations about this about this particular OBE. First, that there is no "spiritual meaning" behind it. It is simply an experience, with perhaps no other significance in that it contributed to my growing awareness of non-physical consciousness. Second, it was the first time that I tried to use my voice while out of body and I found it very difficult. Third, the ordinary cognitive faculty Ruach) does not function in the usual manner while in this state; I find it typically operates at a reduced level of activity and that is the case here. I lay awake for quite a long time, though drifting every so often into a light dream state. I wake from a light sleep feeling my legs floating above me. I grow tired of this and decide to see if I can lift my head out. I push up and my head and chest lift up. I do this a number of times, but never get free. Finally, with a big push I exit completely. I wave my arms in front of me and they become visible. I am in a small room. Everything seems a bit fuzzy, not quite real. It looks to be a messy dorm room. I walk out into the hall. I decide to ask for assistance… “if anyone is here…” but my voice cuts out. It is but a tiny whisper. I try again, “if someone is here and can hear me, please help me…” my voice is croaking. I have never tried to speak out loud before. I go in another room and look around. I could try to leave this place but decide instead to search for a phone. I find one in a third room. It’s an old rotary phone. I pick it up and hear a bell clinging inside. I look closely at it and the dial turns into a jumble of push buttons. I am not surprised that all of the numbers aren't there, but I see a “4” in the middle along with the number "1". It gives me an idea. I pick up the phone but there is no dial tone. I dial “411”. [Note: this is the old US phone number for general information] I wait… there is no ring. I think to myself that this is not leading anywhere. But I continue to wait anyway. Finally, I hear a voice. It is garbled at first but I focus my hearing and eventually the words become clear. It’s a woman’s voice. It sounds like a recording and I pick it up in the middle of a sentence: "...distributed communication. You have requested original level translocation..." Everything goes dark and I wake up.

In the case of Jerry Hicks there is a certain amount of denial about the fact that he has been dead for nearly four years. On the official website http://www.abraham-hicks.com/lawofattractionsource/index.php the latest courses and cruises are kept scrupulously up to date. Yet the About Jerry and Esther section reads thus: And then we get more detail about Jerry: Perhaps the fact that he is dead is slightly off-putting to those who want to buy into the dream and buy into one of the cruiseship courses. Ultimately, they know that their target audience is a bit simple minded, and will ask 'Why didn't Jerry use the law of attraction to stay alive?' Better to try and conceal his death for as long as possible.

We are arguing about reality Bob and not the nature of possibility. You cannot produce either a deductive, or inductive argument based on our knowledge and direct experience which shows an afterlife of any sort. Scientific proof of death is something we have understood for a long time. I'm sure graveyards across the land are full of those who thought death was not the end, but those graveyards attest to error. Imagine a court case in which the accused must prove his innocence and not his guilt. The man is accused of killing his wife. It is absolutely impossible for him to prove he is innocent If all possibilities are open and all evidence is disregarded as falsity. It is a possibility that and infinite number of monkeys with an infinite number of typewriters would chance on the production of the complete works of Shakespeare. This saying is not supposed to be taken as a model of possibility, but to show how ludicrous a proposition it is. There are neither infinite money's nor infinite typewriters. If you believe everything and anything is possible, you have deliberately suppressed the only tool you possess to know reality 'as it is'. It is fine to dream and to imagine, but eventually, from those fevered thoughts must come an action. If your actions are all based on the possibility of what scientists might discover, then you are living in a future world and not 'in the now', as advocated by many lifestyle guru. Act on what you know is reality to the best that you can know it and that is 'the now'. Then you know yourself as you are, neither as you were, nor as you imagine you might be. When you stand on the solid foundation of reason you will know the universe for what it is and marvel that you did not know it before. :-)

While I agree that we need to be careful superposing one another terms from different traditions, the attempt can sometimes be valuable in providing an extended picture. While there are many variations in classification schemes, different traditions nevertheless refer to the same underlying metaphysical realities after all. I had some experiences during lucid dreams when I found myself in a body of light energy which I call astral body. It feels quite fantastic every time. Now in my personal cultivation, I synthesize elements from both Western and Eastern practices. I recall one dream in which I was clearly aware of a chi reservoir in the Lower Dantien and of the chi flow as it is considered in Taiji. How much my experiences with the astral body resemble what Gurdjieff and Ouspensky describe, I can't say off the top of my head. If you could guide me to relevant texts and chapters that are available online, I will be happy to look into this further.

Would I rather die a dreamer or live a jaded realist? Dream or nightmare? Which shall I choose... Is there really a monster under my bed? Is there really someone, or some group of someones, out to get me? Is the world for me or against me? Is my happiness in my hands, or the hands of others? Is everyone a potential enemy or a potential friend? Is life really worth living, or should I just give up, right now, because the cards are stacked against me, as they are against all others? Or shall I call the dealer's bluff, lay down my cards, take my losses or winnings, and move to another table? Or stop playing games entirely? So many questions... Can anyone be said to have the answers? For the record, I have not said anything against learning self-defense. I just decided that for me, carrying around a knife was like asking for trouble. But I would be right there with you, in a Krav Maga class, should I find one and the finances to pay for it. There is nothing wrong with preparation and self-defense training! But expecting trouble that you have to be prepared for or defend yourself against will certainly bring it!

I had a very interesting vision this morning. It started out with me being told that there is a licensed Chinese fortune teller doing his business in the NYC Chinatown area. His business hour is Wednesday and he is done by 4 something pm. His name is Dan something. It has something to do with Frankfurt or Frankfurter. I didn't see him. Then, I found myself meditating at the nearby parking garage. Then, I noticed a bright bean of light shinning at me at a distance. Behold, it was a drone. It came to check me out because it detected an explosion in the area. Later, I have more drones surrounding me. I really didn't want to attract too much attentions. In order to disperse these drones, I had to convince them that there were no explosions because there were no wreckage on the ground. What do I have here? A Chinatown, something I don't normally dream of myself to be in. A fortune teller talks about the number 4. In Cantonese, number 4 is synonymous to death. His business hour is Wednesday. Drones connecting to an explosion. Me defusing these drones by telling them that there are no explosions. What else could this mean? Me, myself, having an explosion???

I'm right in the thick of the adult-men-yelling-at-each-other-over-air-pressure-in-balls storm and it's been a nightmare for literally six months straight. Everywhere you turn. Sometimes it feels like I'm in a strange dream. On a more serious note, the positive newspapers going out of business is scary, but what's more scary is if you're one that believes that people seek out reflections of what they feel inside...

Well, there was another explosion in another plant on Monday, US time, or Tuesday in China time. Regardless, in the dream, I didn't see an explosion, which is a good thing. It was me convincing these drones that there were no explosions. Not sure what that meant. Is possible that all the security measures employed by the Chinese govt before the parade may have prevented another disaster. It was a good show. Unfortunately, some of the foreign troops there...they looked horrible and a sorry sight.

They're real and they're powerful. Isis is selling the dream of Islamic utopia. A message that resonates for millions of disenfranchised young who see poverty and corruption everywhere. Course there ideology justifies slavery and mass murder of just about everyone else but nothings perfect. I think they're protected by fact the big powers finally see the area as a powder keg that blows up in the face of invading armies. Countries with powerful modern tech (and tanks) have gotten burned there and are suffering Middle Eastern exhaust, doesn't hurt that oils prices are low too. Still if ISIS gains enough power, that'll change. The Caliph's days are as numbered as Osama Bin Laden's were. Even less. Once he goes the movement may splinter. Either way it'll provide new impetus for a major attack against them, and if the Western powers aren't up for it, then it'll be a coalition of the many enemies Daesh has made. And that might be a good thing. A unifier. We will see.

You sure dream some beautiful dreams at times. You must live on a different planet than I do. There is crime on my planet. And no, it is not because of fear that I defend what is mine. It is simply because it is mine. You nor any one else can have it unless I give it willingly. But you go ahead with your unlimited love. I will stick with being cautious.

I just read a little on Anima Mundi and Jung. I understand about the Dao (or Lord) being at the center, but with no circumference. The fractal connection is really strange in your dream. I see now the connection with the fractals. In your understanding, when this philosophy refers to Christ hovering above the fractal world, is this within a Christian setting? (I assume not as you're posting within Esoteric / Occult) But does this refer to the Christ Consciousness within us all, just waiting to be found? Is there that analogy in the archetype?

besides, neither of us make economic policy do we? it's just banter on my part but a poor boy can dream, right?

Other peoples interpretations is less important then your own. Sometimes you reduce the storyline into possible symbolic/mythologic images and go from there. Though it'd be interesting to know if Dan or China town had a specific connection or meaning to you. What else.. 4 is an unlucky number in Chinese, sounding like death. If the week starts on Sunday then Wednesday is the 4rth day.. Dan means next step or stage in Chinese. Death also means change.. ya da yada.. Otherwise it could be an ordinary anxiety dream that people pretty often. A mish mash of troubling things occurring in there day or in the news that are symbolically rehashed in the night.

There's alot of relative inexpensive books (I like The Tibetan Yogas of Dream & Sleep by Tenzin Rinpoche), sites and papers out there. Thing is, dreamwork is a tricky practice. Some seem to have a big leg up with inborn skill, for the rest it takes very strong intent over quite a while. I'd agree that more money does not guarantee better instruction or material. You may want to look into the less guru-ish takes on dreamwork. Its all about finding the approach that connects, and sticking with it. One person said in dreamwork there is no technique, there is only intent.

Great post Thelerner. Sometimes i wonder wether at least part of the draw toward esotericism is a drive toward feeling somehow special, unique and "expempt" from the same rules as those we judge as ordinary and "just the rest of the herd". We have basically the same ups and downs, no? Yet maybe we get to subtly aggrandize our issues as having more spiritual significance. I think this is probably a subset of what monucka described so well, of using various spiritual concepts to hide our garbage from ourselves, or decorate it to look pretty. The Truth might be a bit more boring, and gritty and painfully mundane. Come to think of it, I think this is really striking at the heart of maybe one the things we all have in common. A realization, conscious or unconscious, that we are are at least partially stuck in a sort of addictive crazy dream. And the tools of this dream, because they are part of the dream, are not going to save us. So it's basically going to take a miracle for us to wake up. So at our best we are not trying to find newer, fancier dreams to replace our old ones. We are looking for experiences that shake us awake a little more. Reminds me ... I get into meme-theory on and off and there is this really cool concept of meme-cleaning memes. Most memes (especially very successful ones) are considered more or less viral and intent on replication at the hosts expense. Meme-cleaning memes, like meditation, might be a little different in that they more or less lack superfluous content except an urging for us us to examine what's really going on. PS ... While we're on the topic of what we have in common, I am somewhat of a personality test junkie and have always wanted to ask this here, does anyone else know their Enneagram or MBTI types? I am a Type 4 with a 5 wing on Enneagram and INFJ on MBTI. You can take a test that will tell you what you are for both here: http://similarminds.com/embj.html Sean.

Might work in a low tech 2nd or third world country. But if you want technology, electricity and modern commerce you need roads, power plants, $$ commitment to education, police to protect within, and sadly an army to protect from outside. Do you have any country that'd you'd want to emulate? Or is a place like Haiti the closest to your dream? Little government, low taxes..

As you know better than most Karl, I am extremely fortunate to live a dream to live my RnD passions as a gift to improve air quality for all earth bound living beings. No matter what 'misfortune' (because 1st world misfortunes are 3rd world fantasy), I would remain unable to suffer without consensually forfeiting realization of mindfulness to instead choose to trade it for the illusion of being a victim of my own mind to suffer. At some point it becomes a question of at which point do you choose to stop recognizing your thoughts are exclusively your domain. I wouldn't claim to rule out anything, but it seems extremely unlikely to choose to return to delusion after self-realization. If someone had merely told me I could only suffer my own minds choice to experience suffering, that awareness could be lost easily because it wasn't my awareness, it was my interpretation of someone else's realization. If one self-realizes Truth of the nature of reality, it would take choosing to not recognize reality and instead choose a path of self-delusion to suffer. Not impossible, but improbable if one chooses to continue to value compassion (Love-thought rather than fear-thought.) No matter what circumstances may or may not arrive, you don't have to face anything more than this one moment of Now that encompasses our human experience. I don't know if I could burn alive in Nirvana right now, as I've never tried it. I do realize if one is going to burn alive, it would be particularly compassionate to choose awareness of perfect mindfulness during the experience, and pointless self-torture not to. With Unlimited Love, -Bud

There is no objective condition that evokes suffering on a being, aside from the being choosing to believe they are experiencing suffering, and then override perception of Now with this inherently self-imposed delusion. Humans are taught to suffer, and impose it upon themselves to whatever extent they choose, completely irregardless of outside conditions. Someones "worst day" is someone else's ultimate dream fantasy life day, the difference is in the choice of perception. Suffering concludes in proportion to ones realization of mindfulness and compassion. Complete mindfulness, complete compassion (which is inherently a fearless state) can not suffer. Humans don't need some amazing new process or technology or some profound wisdom to not suffer. Just stopping choosing to suffer ones own delusions, and instead embracing perception of Now is more than adequate. Not suffering, and choosing to experience unbreakable peace doesn't require any outside resources or help, or even waiting until tomorrow. It is a gift you can give yourself through realization of mindfulness Now. These are the first low hanging fruits to pick to begin a path towards self-awareness and then awareness. Think less of finding a specific practice or teacher or book of wisdom, and more about removing the delusions you were choosing to replace perception of Now. Nirvana is already inside you waiting to be perceived, it only costs laying down your burdens of delusions to accept the gift that was always there waiting for you. With Unlimited Love, -Bud

looks like an interesting site for pursuing/exploring Dream work http://www.awakeacademy.org/

what.. how can Saturn be evil?? its got a halo around it . While there are lessons to be learned in the bible and Roman myths, I think its a mistake to take them literally. You're bound to pick, choose and twist whatever meanings you want out of them. They become a projection on how you want the world to be. And many dream of being a heroic prophet and saviour. Proudly telling the world, Beware Saturn the source of all evil. To me, he had a bad vibe, Evil Everywhere. Its in the air, in the print.. like Elvis- its in the sausage. Like any preconception look hard enough for your obsession and you will see it everywhere; its the lense you see the world out of and a virus in your mind. Most of us have them, but when they're based on something so negative, it gives a certain energy and heat, but it'll also leave you scared, paranoid and burnt out.

Dream, A lot of words . According to Anadi, who has developed a nice "map" - First thing to do would be to develop constant awarness and realise it - awarness withouth mind objects. With it then you can overcome the mind and its problems of subconsciouss nature, cause you can simply track them to their roots. then you reach another thing which is all sorts of feelings which lies under the mind, and are related to different regions of the body. You no longer react with thoughts, but still there are this feelings/sensations that different situations still trigger. At this point you see clearly that you are also made of this emotions, and not only painfull, cause there is also excitement, pleasure, greef... Almost unnotacible feelings and they are almost impossible to notice with accompaniament of the mind. Prior to that I would say that yoga purify it really good. One monk has also reccomended me once TRE exercises which work really good for this Pain body withouth the mind effort to find out...

I would like to encourage you to be cautious as you explore. I have been told that certain methods of astral projection can cause damage, such as where the higher bodies anchor into the lower body. I believe that Robert Monroe's technique may have been one of those that I was warned against. I believe that it is safer to start with lucid dreaming as a foundation for astral projection. "The Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep" by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche may be a good place to start if you want to try that route.

I've been writing a lot lately. Here is something I want to share: Window The window to beyond opens up unexpectedly, and yet… at the right moment. For how long did you gaze outward, thru the geometric glass? Awestruck by the mysterious grace of changing seasons and dancing elements, Enchanted by its infinite depth of ecological diversity woven to raw wilderness, Touched by the subtleties of the sacred, the poetry in nature, the music of life. Seeing this beauty, it fills you with joy and inspiration. Still… as you look across the glass, There is a longing for more- A beautiful dream abruptly shattered by the ringing of an alarm clock. Then one day, you wake up and find the window to beyond is open. Its breeze will guide you, whisper to you, Fill you with peace, blow away your fears and doubts. When you smell the blossoming fragrance, Your senses will awaken the heart, Who knows where it might take you? You will taste the fruit of your gifts destined to ripen. Seeds and fruit we must let go of, so that they may slumber in the frozen dark Winter, only to awaken with gusto in Spring’s fresh emerald renaissance.

The important point about idealims is that it is monistic. What you call matter and what you call thought is the same thing. Each are just monentary flashes in a stream. Rather like individual frames on a movie reel. So illusion doesn't really apply to this vision. The thought of the spgahetti monster is as real as the sight of the badger. Materialism can be monistic, but it is mostly dualistic. There is a difference between thought and matter. Thought behaves exactly like the idealist says, but matter endures regardless of any perceiving consciousness. Only the dualist can think about the world logically because only the duallist belives that there is a separate world to think about. The idealist says this separation is illusory. The big clue that the materialist should see is that their is a mjor component of the syllogism that has nothing to do with the world and that is the premise. The premise is a fiction, no different to the materialists dream. Or, to put it another way, if the materialist believes in fantasy dreams then he has to accept that the premise is of the same nature.