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also i made the comment what is real because I asked this question to a fairly enlightened person. "some people say reality is just a dream but how do we know its not real and other people are actually experiencing something real" he replied "what do you mean by real?" This kind of puzzled me but actually made me realise reality can be considered everything including what you think

I want to get back on thread with this. I will list some of the 'points' and reasons why this grand science of the inner and outer world is worth pursuing. But first I want it to be clear, that not every Magickian or Set of Magickal Teachings understands all of this, or agrees, or practices it all. There is a lot of very immature practitioners out there, and some quite mentally disturbed ones as well. Some are just plain greedy or lazy, and want things without 'working' for them. Some just want to be 'fringe' elements, Some heard about sex magick and just want a woman to one day agree to have sex with them {sorry Thelamites } Some disempowered souls dream of power over hoards of demons, {and women} and want to pour occult vengeance down on the heads of the high school jocks who humiliated them in school. Some are just curious and want to know if it can work. These IMHO are 98% of the practitioners. Most Magickians I have met fit in here somewhere, or at least did when they started. They have a sporadic periods success and a few do better than that, But the important thing is that the experiences and suprising successes may Inspire them to move into a more mature relationship with magick, and Inspire them towards the real goals of Magick. Illumination or Enlightenment. Ritualistic Magick, helps you make contact, over and over again, with various spiritual forces, energies or beings. This serves to help cultivate ones awareness of subtle energies. It Brings you into contact with the aspects of yourself that reside on similar levels to the invoked/evoked being, which makes it a valuable tool for self knowledge. Assuming you want to develop more 'non local' kinds of awareness. It releases massive surges of energy and Libido through the mind and psyche, which amazifies ones life, and sense of self. Also personally, as I love tummo & LTD practice, these energy surges have profoundly amplified my practice of Taoist energy arts... It can seriously alter ones personality. A timid and weak willed person Invoking Mars for instance can start to activate some serious confidence and 'direction' vastly improving their quality of life. {Prove it they scream! thats unscientific! lol} As the mind comes alive, activated by Symbol systems {the language of the right brain - not all this left brain 'prove it' logic stuff which most of us have in abundance} you become more connected - feeling wise, to the world and others, to mystery, to nature and archetypes... This in itself is one of the great reasons to practice Magick. When this starts to happen, this 'change' in the mind, you start to notice a great increase in Intuition. Lucid dreams, and powerful, deep, insightful dreams sky rocket. Random and surprising spiritual or psychic experiences seem to just start happening, regularly. And then there is the blatant increase in 'synchronicities' which are usually tied to contacting archetypal forces. {These are fun, and sometimes startling, although they mean nothing in them selves by the way, and are just a side effect of inner contact. This makes people like David Ikke particularly funny, as they take synchronicity as a message that they are on the right track, and their conspiracy theories get wilder and wilder as they follow archetypal patterns and themes down the rabbit hole...} This new way of functioning for the mind, allows for the practice of contemplations, towards Union with the One, {The real goal of Magick} in a way that is impossible outside of this deep transformation. Magick {correctly practiced obviously} causes a deep state change, which would be easily observable with brain state gear. Also, In my counselling course they showed a series of studies linking happiness, a deep sense of meaning, and general quality of life to strongly activated right brain activities. It also showed that the more Left brain dominant a person is, the more they moved across towards depression and a sense of disconnection and alienation. They had less meaningful lives, less meaningful relationships and less fun. And finally, just to piss off MPG. Magick can effect the world. You can 'make' things happen. This can not be tested in a lab as you can not fit the world in a lab. If you do a spell {or sometimes several} to bring something about, to change something, and it usually happens fairly quickly. So you could do a spell in a lab, sure, but the result will be out in the world. That leaves it up to you ~without your scientific father figure holding your hand~ to decide if it really was 'Magick' or if it was an event that was just going to happen anyway? The best way to test this is to do it over and over again, over time, to see if it starts seem uncanny, and to see if you can make weirder, more unlikely things happen... I have done this and feel quite certain that it works. But more importantly, I found that on the journey I started to live a Magickal life, and had been drawn into a world I hadn't known even existed. Blessings on all your endeavours!

Great dream! Cool variation on the "flying" theme.

Sounds like the intensity of luminosity being experienced. This can be experienced dualistically or non-dualistically however. Do you feel like the separate observer has dissolved and fused into everything or is there still a sense of separation?* *(Something I wrote back in 01 Dec 2009, it is the experience of the intensity of luminosity but still dualistic): I wrote: I think 'What is it' is a powerful koan and pointer. Whatever you say isn't It (it's your interpretation of It, which thus is not It), you can only 'know' it by becoming ONE with it. Actually there is not even a becoming one, there is only actually IT, our mind merely projects separation. When we experience Awareness directly without using our thoughts, everything is experienced as having a magical, alive, shimmery, fresh, amazing and blissful quality to it. Life is not not the 'boring and ordinary' as the mind interpretes it, even the most ordinary things (such as eating, walking, etc) just feels awesome. You will be naturally attracted, pulled towards the pristine awareness than to stressful thoughts. The ego will melt in the wonder and majesty of awareness. Awareness will literally blow your mind away. One moment I was just dreaming stressful thoughts, the other moment I 'woke up' and was totally drawn to Awareness itself... there was no compulsion for me to go back to the dream. It's just such a huge contrast. Sometimes it's so blissful that people around me wonder why I'm smiling. But surely I'm not mad... it's mad to not notice Life... hahaha ----------- I was reading this interview by Eckhart Tolle just now and thought to myself "Oh my god, that's exactly the same order as I have experienced it". First I was lost in suffering thoughts, then I had a compulsion to transcend the thoughts as I can't stand them and what I did is precisely the same: asking Who am I? Then everything was dropped off and what remained was just this I AM, this beingness that doesn't have a form but is clearly present. Afterwards I'm just absorbed in this formlessness and next there was just this amazing clarity and experiencing everything as if like a miracle with almost no thoughts, like he said, 90% of the thoughts gone. There's just no more interest in the thought, I'm just basking in wonder of pure awareness, everything ordinary becomes wonderful. I'm only interested in 'feeling' everything than thinking about it. And I too felt that I needed to write it down "in case it leaves me or I lose it", and that is why I wrote it here. The experience isn't equally intense in all moments of my life, but this 'peak experience' is actually not a distant experience but is something accessible at any moment (there's only One) Right Now in the Present Moment, Pure Awareness is the ever-present shining sun that can never be lost. It just becomes temporarily obscured as we become fixated on thoughts, or become distracted... if we just turn the light around we discover this state is our natural state and never leaves. The thought that Eckhart Tolle's intro chapter in The Power of Now was very similar to mine did came to mind on that night as I was writing the post, but it never occured to me that the order it all unfolded was actually similar.

This thread inspired a fun dream last night. I was hanging out with someone in a park with a bunch of big white birds. The birds were flying around a lot, and I held out one of my arms to see if they'd land on it. One of them grabbed my arm but kept on trying to fly. Then I got the great idea of holding both arms out...a bird attached to each arm and they carried me up into the tree tops. It was fun.

People are a product of their inheritance ( nature and nurture), their environment, themselves AND the ideas they harbor... (it could be debated how much of each and what each area includes, maybe even simplified it a bit or expand it). The point I want to make is that the individual and the group ought to figure out better ways to interact, direct and play. The bully gets to gully (and bully) because many bystanders allow it to happen... a non-interference position, least the beast turns on one (or for 'entertainment' purposes - at the expense of others). The key resides in figuring out ways where the individuals and the groups play fair (for all involved results) cultivating the positive ways while inhibiting the realization of the negatives. Recognize what be while working to bring about the dream. You are right it may be there will always be intolerance... that is intolerance of the intolerant by the tolerant... though when and where there is only tolerance there need not be any intolerance at all... Its a bit like the jiujitsu master (or any gentle martial arts technique) who directs energy flows... and converts blows into caresses... The sustainable way is the sustainable way individual definitions either correspond to it or are a sham. I some do not care for 'it', why should we care about what they care? The way is indifferent as to whether someone cares for it being the way on not, it be the way... One either accepts the way and follows it or rejects the way while following it... I would rather everyone choose of their free accord to follow the way rather than be forced to follow the way... whatever they do everyone follows the way... see the concept of wu wei here! BTW its irrelevant if the see their intolerance or not what need be done is for each to followthrough and tolerate tolerance...

Yes words do have special meanings associated to them... if we are to understand what they say the meaning we associate to the words must coincide with the special meaning associated to them... most of the time there are differences in associations ... there was no need to go to the TTC ... yet you asked me to consider it... that is why I bother to go there in the first place....??? I pointed out what I saw and how it applied and coincided with what I was stating ... Have you done something like that? I do not think so... but maybe you can point me to where you have done it. This interchange has stemmed from what you hold and what I hold... though rarely has there been a validation if what was perceived corresponded to what was indented. Between us its rather straightforward... we can just ask if what I understood corresponds to what was intended... with a text its a bit more difficult because we do not have the live validation clarification of the other with us... though sometimes its quite evident... for example I think I know you intended to state 'out' not 'our' from the text... I could ask you to validate this fact and corroborate that what I think to know corresponds to what be going on... this is a rather insignificant example... a more relevant one could be what it mean by 'acting with no-action'... or 'the flavor of no-flavor' to me its evident that the illusion of no-judgement and no-choice stem from holding 'what is not' as 'what is' rather than holding 'what is' as 'what is'... Everyone is bound to judge while free to choose how to do it... everyone must choose what to do even if they choose to do nothing... stand by observing what happens... some even claim they made no-choice... when evidently the chosen to just stand by... How do you know your interpretation of ttc corresponds to the author's? How do you know that the author's interpretation corresponds to what be? My stand is rather simple and hedges the outcome so that it always the chose to make... regardless of it being real or a dream always choose the better ways... only one way to go (and there is no way to go wrong )... When one seeks to always learn what be right one always rejoices at finding the truth... I am getting to involved here... will shortly take a leave and do as chapter 5 suggested keep within many a thought...

If you want free time and don't wanna work for 40 hours a week, work your ass off in school get good grades and make a name for yourself; you're not the only one that wants these things and you have to earn them. Like Lerner said get the medical degree and the right doors will open up. Being that the medical field is as lucrative as it is, you can fund any other dreams you have later with the money you'll be making from the medical stuff. Matter of fact, that's what I'm doing now (College--->Med. type degree--->Occupational Therapist---> Acupuncture and Herbology College---->My dream career). I'm sorry if came off mean, but I went through the same worries you did and I realized I had to spark the fire within me to drive forward. Keep your head up! Too add also..the heart/logic is a false duality. The logic is to make your heart happy by following your path.

which is different from rebirth, which is what ceases upon liberation. so do quantum physicists, but they will still tell you that life is real. yes, people misunderstood the doctrine of emptiness and began to cultivate themselves in an escapist manner. life is illusory, but its not unreal. hows that for better semantics? lol its like a dream.. totally real while you're in it, but then it switches to another dream, and its not real anymore... so its kind of like asking is yesterday "real"? can you show me it? only now is real because we are in it. Right now, the moment you read that last sentence doesn't exist anymore, and won't until you reread it if you so choose. So in many ways, we can see that life possesses an illusory or unreal element. And when its over, we're off to somewhere else, and what we're doing right now won't be "real". So this moment is real, which is why buddhism and the spiritual doctrines recommend resting in it, but thats as far as it goes. There are a lot of illusory aspects to reality.. like the fact that its 99.99% empty space and .01% energy.. another "unreality". So we can agree on the experience of it, but it doesn't mean that things are as they seem. i have no reason to believe that heavens don't exist. They are taught about in all the mystery traditions of the world, other worlds, little worlds, big worlds, faerie, siddhaloka, pure land, it goes on and on... why should i believe that this world is all there is? rather abrahamic. except they believe in heaven too well i can't really claim to know what they meant by that, but there are certainly stories of those who came to human incarnation from other places, places of enlightenment and bliss. I don't really know tho, and yes its different in the tibetan thought. So its hard to pin down "how does this work" i have even seen some people say that enlightenment is the literal extinguishment of consciousness, like upon liberation one becomes like a golem or something! that makes me laugh... i think theres a lot of ignorance out there and some people just want to make grandiose pronouncements rather than find out for themselves by achieving liberation lol aw you dont offend me in the least.. i don't take it personally, and i have seen much worse takes on the dharma and not been offended. I appreciate your point of view, as always, and i appreciate white wolf running on air's. I just understand things differently, and for the sake of our mutual understanding, i chose to respond contrarily to what had been presented. I hope you don't feel chased away by my tone, that would be my mistake, for which i appologize.

I agree with Aaron In this regard. Practices such as karma yoga... repent for your sins Or the cultivating of merit A person of virtue isn't concerned with cultivating merit or repentance I spent a month as a volunteer in my country... Tibetan monastery - Gelug school Firstly the nuns there had never heard of dream yoga... which is suppose to be fundamental to Tibetan Buddhism? + all the grovelling / floor prostrations and bowing to plastic statues...and the llama high up on some huge pedestal I swear one nun tried to run me off the road... hahaha and I heard of a few tales of people losing their minds at that place...? Of which in one account the persons next of kin was called and he was taken home.... no help from senior monks etc I think I will leave it there...perhaps that place wasn't the best example... What I call alien is the 1st 'noble truth'... which is a complete disaster Life is suffering.... awesome way to begin, no? Become nothing... everything is illusion You will be trapped in hell forever.... destroy yourself and be free! ^ I call this: Introduction to Buddhism - Have A Nice Day! hahaha Do you want to see the great trap that is Buddhism... a vicious demonic creation - its insanity is clear The Buddha apparently said.... The mind is everything. What you think you become.... now add a little spice.... Life is suffering? and so it is. Buddhism is slavery... at the very least the west should have nothing to do with it... so much confusion has already been caused by this...so called truth. Christianity is more forgiving....hahah Buddhism says....your already in hell Christianity says... follow these 10 rules... Taoism says... life is good... let us learn to make it more so... in fact... let us live forever! I have taken this position... perhaps it will be considered extreme... I admit I have not read every Buddhist text... but from the ones I have... as you see... my experience of it was not a good one. But that is just my experience

I did practice fire gazing + a breathing exercise.... keeping the mind on the point between inhale (space) exhale (space) inhale (space) etc + Physical exercise Though... for some time now I have been caught up in the world of conspiracy / darkness, deceit / manipulation etc Which has helped to expand my mind... but makes my heart heavy Looking for more positive growth for both mind and heart / hence my being here I endeavor to begin the above practices again soon as the results were good. hmm I also use runes + attempting dream yoga / lucid dreaming... intent/ will, imagination

May I ask...anyone... what is the difference between the dream state and this reality? In the dream state I can bend elements as depicted in the avatar series and the like. One I remember vividly was bending water - psychokinesis. Another I was able to harness electrical energy (element?) though this emanated from myself which I directed through my hands. All this seemed quite natural... like breathing.

-K- In my experience you get the one you call. Experiences with Ashteroth are quite different to experiences with Isis. The Santa Daime's Jesus is very different to the Jesus of some of the fearful little {and huge} cults our there. I agree with Disabled not Broken's egregore thing whole heartedly. I sometimes call it a morphic field, or a paradigm, but what ever one names it, moving into contact with a tradition, even before you actively 'believe' in it, moves you into that traditions energy field. There are so many examples of this out there that its just not funny. For Instance a girl meets a christian or a voodoo houngan, but she is not swayed, but then home that night has a vision or some dream visitation of baby Jeebus, or Erzulie, and then she 'Believes'... So many peoples personal conversion stories run along these lines... In looking for 'your' tradition, I think it is important to have a taste of many different systems as possible, and stay open to experiencing new ones, as they have very unique and enriching ways of experiencing the world within them, and even after you have chosen the one/s that you wish to work with {based on what fits you best} there will be rewarding reflections from meeting other 'egregore's'. Seth.

PPagan... It was my dream to get involve with research in helping people to fight cancer. I was thinking how many known Chi Kung practitioners are die of cancer. So far, I heard none. After many years of practicing Tai Ji and Chi Kung. I make some study on my own by some factual materials and came up with a conceptual idea about fighting cancer. I know cancer cells do not like oxygen but love sugar. Based on some biological facts, the body cells use the oxygen that we breath to convert glucose from the foods we took into energy for the body to function. Fortunately, practicing Chi Kung will help us to breathe more oxygen and convert most of the glucose into energy. What that says which gives me the notion that Chi Kung is actually fighting the cancer cells. The idea was cancer cells do not like oxygen but Chi Kung is breathing more oxygen to go against them. In addition, cancer cells like sugar. However, the Chi Kung helps to burn up the glucose for body energy instead of leaving it for the cancer cells. The best of all, the biochemical energy, adenine triphosphate(ATP), was used to manufacture the white blood cells to get rid of cancer cells. The cancer patients are pretty weak to practice any strenuous exercise. It is better for them to do sitting mediation with lots of deep breathing exercise like isometric Chi Kung. Those who are in little better condition is best for them to do some isotonic Chi Kung with slow movements.

Shortly after my eighteenth birthday my father got a call from my mother asking for help. He left me and my brother and flew out to Washington to see her. At the time she was living in Hoquiam, the neighboring city to Aberdeen. He called a few days after he left to tell me and my brother that he wasn't coming back, that we shouldn't follow him, and that we needed to remember to pay the rent. At the time I still loved my mother and father, blinded and still young, I didn't realize how harmful they actually were, so despite my father's request my brother and I saved up money and left two weeks later on a plane to Seattle, WA. I had called my parents and let them know when the plane was arriving, but no one showed up at the airport to meet us. We were stranded there with our luggage, without a clue as to how to get to Aberdeen, WA. Luckily we met a young guy who told us to we could take the Greyhound to Olympia, then catch the Grays Harbor Transit bus to the downtown station in Aberdeen. We followed his directions and caught the next Greyhound south and arrived in Olympia that night, missing the last bus to Aberdeen by fifteen minutes. I remember that night because it was September and the temperature dropped down to the high forties. I had just come to Washington from Florida, so I had no coats or sweaters, just t-shirts. I was shivering and cold, sitting huddled outside the bus station. A homeless guy stopped and ruffled through his backpack and pulled out an old blue hooded sweatshirt with "Alaska" printed on the back and the big dipper printed on the front. I put it on and thanked him. He sat and talked with us, told us to stay at the bus station because the police patrolled there and not to go across the street to the park, because the guys there were very territorial and wouldn't take kindly to anyone coming in there while they were sleeping. I remember trying to sleep that night, but even with the sweater it was too cold and I couldn't stop shaking. The night seemed to drag on forever. At one point I hid by bags behind a dumpster and headed out to a grocery store down the street. There was a cashier and a stock boy there and they let me and my brother sit on the bench wait there and get warm. In the morning we went back to the greyhound station and retrieved our luggage. Around eight the transit bus to Aberdeen arrived and we boarded it. The bus driver's name was Beverly and she seemed a bit concerned, asked us where we were going and we told her our predicament. Low and behold she actually was friend's with my mother. When we had finally made the two hour trip and arrived at the bus station she told us to wait and she went in and called my mom to let her know we were there. My mother came on the next bus and led us to where my father was staying, a little two room apartment just a block from the station. The place was a drug den to be exact. It rented rooms out. Most of the tenants were either on welfare or drug addicts looking for a cheap place to stay. (Unknown to me, Aberdeen had the highest rate of alcoholism and drug addiction of any town in the country at that time.) My father opened the door and I remember that I was so excited to see him, but he seemed disappointed that we were there. He let us in and for the next few months that was my home. It was in that little disheveled hovel on Wishkah Street that I first met Kurt Cobain. It was about two weeks after I arrived that my sister brought him over with a few of her friends. He was only there for about ten minutes, but it was long enough for me to realize he was an asshole. Now the reason I say this is because he made fun of my father, who was sixty or so at the time. My sister told him to quit and he did, but I realized right away that I didn't like the guy. The next time I saw him I was living in a small three bedroom apartment off B Street. I had made some friends who were staying with us. They were street kids we had met. All of them homeless. My father, for all his faults, was a good man at heart and rather then kick them out on the streets, he let them stay with us. They loved my father, thought the world of him. There was also an alcoholic Quinalt Indian woman with two boys and another woman with two boys as well staying there. None of the people staying there seemed to care that my father gave the teenage girls that came over drugs in exchange for sex, nor did they care that he drank too much and shoplifted food. I remember my brother had a crush on one of the girls, her name was Melony. He walked in on them, she was reclining against the headboard of the bed in just a t-shirt and panties, my father was sitting off the side smoking a joint, passing it to her. It devastated my brother. It was in that house that I began to know Kurt Cobaine. See he was homeless at the time and spent a few nights on our living room floor. He was still friends with my sister, in fact it was his circle of friends that turned her on to shooting up. I remember walking into the kitchen watching them heat up some white powder in a spoon, the needle sitting on the counter. They told me that I either had to take a hit or get out. I got out. After that Kurt was an asshole towards me. I didn't do drugs, I was trying to be a christian, and really despised the world I was living in. Kurt had a barbed wit, he took to calling me "Jesus Freak". I really despised him, to the point that when he came over I avoided him. Finally, one night, when the kids that had been staying with us had raided the fridge and drank all my father's beer, I told my father it was Kurt who had stolen it and he banned him from the house. That was the end of Kurt in my life. In the years that followed I didn't think much about him until I heard a song on the radio ("Smells Like Teen Spirit") and i was told that it was Kurt singing. I didn't care. I didn't like Kurt and I was a bit upset that someone like him could become famous, when in my mind he certainly didn't deserve it. We all know what happened to Kurt. I remember the night I heard he died. I was a bit shocked, but at the same time relieved, don't ask me why. Maybe I felt he had gotten what he deserved, at least in my own early twenties, mildly twisted sense of justice. Ironically, by then I had started drinking alcoholically, done nearly every drug available, and pretty much become a twisted self-absorbed twit myself. Years later I look back and realize that Kurt was a product of his environment. My mother was roommates with Kurt's mom for a few years. I had visited her a few times and I remember looking at pictures of Kurt as a boy. He was a cute kid and I wondered what happened to him. I know he hated the world and that he was certain that the world hated him, but I wonder if that was true. I don't hate him now, nor do I regret hating him in the past, instead I see, from experience, where he came from and how it changes you. I became an alcoholic and drug addict in the same places Kurt did. From what I hear he started getting heavy into it in his early twenties, the same age I did. I'm sure if I had walked into my house and saw me that i would've picked on me too. I see how that filthy little town seemed to corrupt everything around it. Melony, the girl who slept with my father and without even knowing it, betrayed my brother, died of an OD. They found her dumped in an alley in LA. My best friends from that house are either dead or in prison now. Everything about that place was dark and destined for failure. It doesn't surprise me that Kurt didn't escape. I spent ten years there and tried to commit suicide twice and ended up the hospital three time with alcohol poisoning, Kurt spent his whole life there. Anyways, I caution people not to idolize Kurt too much. He wasn't special, he was just lucky. He happened to touch on the one thing that the kids in Washington state were feeling at that time, angry and alone. I guess I should feel lucky that I got to experience ground zero of the grunge life, but I can't help but wonder how different my life would've been if I had listened to my father and not followed him out to that town. Anyways, long post, I know, but just a tidbit of my own experience. I wanted to make sure people knew the reality vs. the dream. Aaron

You can't go there ET. That would require reifying and personifying Tao and I just won't allow that. Hehehe. I still think that the laws (rules of the game) are fixed. Sure, we don't understand many of them but we are still learning. And I would agree that it would appear that the laws sometimes change because conditions change and these conditions cause varying results. I will let you dream. I'm not going to mess up any of your devine thoughts.

I thought we already discussed this, OR WAS IT ALL A DREAM? Whose dream, your or mine? If I remember but it does not exist then it must be mine, but does that make it less real for you? Argh confusing, this is like deciding which one is the best pony, Applejack btw

The 'end goal' of all the Buddha's practices on enlightenment is the ending of the transmigrating mind, rebirth. Tummo, illusory body yoga, dream yoga, mahamudra et al. can all be used to reach the point where the 'ground of all phenomena' can be breached and liberation attained. Most, if not all, of them have the very same roots as the Taoist methods which are in turn deeply related to the Indian and Egyptian methods, all the way back through time and cultural mythology, stretching across the whole world.

Interesting stuff! I have an interest in this myself. The only thing I have come across is Franz Bardons (self) Initiation into Hermetics. I think you may enjoy that read Mnisi. He also goes into astral projection toward the end... though states everything previous must be achieved first before attempting AP...one being balancing the elements within. I read the book through but didnt practice anything... bit impatient and wanted to get to AP first haha... which I think we do anyway but just unconsciously at times... there is a fair amount of info on the net about it. I think one is only "limited" by their imagination... if you want to bend like the avatar go for it! I am trying to connect my dream state and this reality / find the link - similarity etc break the matrix. The Matrix is like my bible Take what you need from anything and make your own system I think...what feels right to you.

Simply allow your desire to be what they are and dive deeper and deeper into them by asking "what do I want" "Why does it make me feel good in the having of it?" Go deeper and deeper, follow your intuition. YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING, trust yourself in the process and enjoy the process. Example of sex desire purification and cleansing and unification(which is a difficult one for allot of men): The WAY I suggest YOU NOT DO it (seeking justification for your desires and trying to create greater and greater seperation from the appreciation of your desires): "I want to have sex. I am not having sex. It seems that I can not have sex right now. I now want to have sex even more. The more I want to have sex the more it seems that I can not have sex. It seems that I am worthless and unworthy of having sex, else I would be having sex by now! UNIVERSE I WANT SEX PLEASE! I BEG YOU! ...five years later... PLEASE KILL ME UNIVERSE! PLEASE I WANT THIS AGONY TO END!!! KILL ME!! ITS FROM HELL! AAAH!!" lol, its a valid way of doing this if you wish. Unconditional love to all The way I suggest you do it: I want to have sex. When I have sex, I feel good and I feel good when I have sex. Why do I feel good when having sex? The kissing makes me feel good. The touching and the connection with my women. The availability of this love for me makes me feel secure and confident. I feel motivated as I receive love from my women and receive appreciation for the being that I am. I want to be who I am every single moment and thats all I want to be, nothing more and nothing less. Most of all, I want to have sex, because women are beautiful and I love to be close to them. It makes me feel more alive. I want to live my dreams and not just dream about living. I want to merge with them. Feel them, taste them, smell them, touch them. Resonate with them. Breath with them. Absorb all that they are, completely be present with them. Allow them. Allow them to be as them selves and love them for who they are as they are who they are, in a dance of changing beauty expressing itself in more beautiful ways each and every moment. I want to allow the energies to flow between us and levitate with them. Merge completely into one being and self as one as both two as one. I want to feel what they feel and I want to share this sacred experience of touching our whole bodies in symetric ways together reflection back to eachother what the other person is feeling and allow the other person to feel what I am feeling for her aswell. I want to make my women feel good and I want her to explode into a greater and more full expression of her true self. I want her to open up as a flower to me and I want to absorb her scent and leafes and all the expression that she is. I am prepared to do anything to open her up in this way to me. To have her surrender to my love, for my love is the greatest towards her. There is no greater love then mine in this very moment. I don't want to miss a single beat of her movement and expression. Why do I feel good in this? It makes my senses come alive and it brightens my eyes. It opens up my eyes to receive more light and colour that is all that she is all her beauty in all the ways she chooses to express this beauty. It sensitisez my tongue to receive more flavour of this beautiful life that she is expressing herself to be. It lightens up my entire body to be alive ever present and free and powerful and motivated and capable of anything I so desire to achieve. I want bring my senses back to life, for they have been neglected for a long time. No longer will I neglect them in this way any longer. From now on, I shall live every single moment in full appreciation of all of my senses and fully open up to the receiving of more beautifull expressions of the grandest of all beauties. She... She is the most beautiful of all. I shall receive all that she is. The nature that she is. The beast that she is. The human that she is. The material that she is. She is everything as all. I am all as one, here to be with here and open her up to more of herself. To create a grand display for all to enjoy and cherrish, right here and now, to eternity. For that is what eternity really is. It is right here and now, as all as one. In a constant state of love and merging. The feminine and masculine. That is what sex really is, that is what I want. That is what I have right now. I am her, she is me, were are both as one. We are merged. Each and every one of us are merged. I shall allow my own feminine to be express in more beautiful ways and I shall allow my own masculine to be more present to all the beauty that is allways already always around me to be experienced by me. Her expression shall never end and is even present within my self. I allow her to express herself by the very act of being who I am! I am all as one, she expresses herself to me naturally by being who she is! She doesn't need to change who she is in order to merge with me, I don't need to change who I am in order to merge with her! We're already as fully merged as we can. I am just going to allow myself to live more fully aware of this merged state of feminine and masculine that I already allways have been shall be and are right now and here, to eternity as all moments of this place and all places of this moment. For this is what unconditionality really is and this is what sex is. The merging of all conditions into one. All expressions into one expression as the masculine here and now as one as the feminine expression of this oneness as all that is that she is constantly expressing in more grand and beautiful ways. I will open up my heart towards her so that she shall be given the opportunity to drink from my love towards her and she shall want it for ever as I taste her love and the giving of love is even more pleasant then the receiving of this love. How wonderful of a universe we live in... etc" You can go on and on like this in whatever way you do it is good. Seek the "what" of your desires and "Why you feel good in the having of this what" so that you can go deeper into the the pure core of all your desires. The singularity and unified desire that is unbreakable, cuts trough all realities straight to the appreciation of the having of what it is you are wanting. DO NT EVEN ATTEMPT TO JUSTIFY YOUR DESIRES! you never have to justify anything. For you can never justify existance. It exists and that is all it needs to be. Justification itself is subject to existance, not the other way around. Embrace your desires fully, for only then can you dive deeper into them, by first allowing them to be full here perfect as they are right here and now in the present moment, in eternity as all that exists right now. Thats it! Have a great time!

What would be the difference between greedy desires and dreams or wishes? Does it depend on the amount that others are negatively or in any way impacted in order to these "dreams" come true? Or does it count if you do something just for yourself, or to uplift your peers or community? To set those "greedy desires" in a starker contrast, what about Martin Luther King's "dream" against a more selfish desire of a young woman to become a star, or buy an expencive dress. It surely is a different feeling. While the woman's desire sees only herself, somehow beeing trapped in the illusion that things are not alright as they are and she needs more for herself, Martin Luther King saw the afro-american community as not being treated right and the necessity to do something about it. But both are more on a basis that needs to diminish negative effects, or negative effects for the future. An urge to do something in order for things to not happen (again). OK, that in itself is not convincing. The woman could buy the dress, just to make her more attractive, to get more attention, because there's never enough. But that again is based in a feeling of deficit. I think wishing is more about something that you wish for, not out of deficit, but out of pure desire. But is that even possible? What if that desire remains unfullfilled for long? Isn't there a line, where you become greedy about it, when finally the moment comes for this desire to be fulfilled? Won't you start thinking about hoarding this stuff or dwelling on an experience for it to never go away again. I think that is where the difference is in. Wish is the primary impulse for an action and if you make the experience, that your wishes are not fulfilled, and you are starting to become greedy about it, if you are not able to stay cool. Has that still got anything to do with my topic? Ah yes, because in order to find out about the lack of the capacity to wish, the most difficult part is to find out, what a wish is in the first place. The book (love and will) differentiates also between wishes that come out of fantasies, and those out of immagination, while not properly explaining the difference. Found a link now: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/05/19/the_odd_body_imagination_fantasy/ So, as I understand this, fantasies are more compulsive than imagination. Immagination might be something more active. But doesn't that mean, that I'm acting out on a fantasy while imagining. I'm having a really tough time with this stuff. Sorry if what I wrote is unclear or imcomprehensible, because it's written thinking to figure this out.

I dont know if this model is particularly apt for Taoists or cultivators. Are there is any "true desire" lying there in the dust of your mind amid the clutter of programmed desires. Its all desire, even deep subconscious wishes are desires and to be treated as useful or useless attachments according to one's path. Some desires can help one make spiritual progress. One can say that the true desire is to attain the Tao, evolve, become enlightened--but the same words can evoke either deep spiritual feeling for some or just some superficial greed (to get something) for others. People who are not moved by spirituality are generally not on the path for long. I notice that females tend to express what they covet and greedily desire as "dreams" or "wishes", which is nice, but its still going to cause all the problems like other attachments. Wish or dream has some imagination and emotional charge to it, that is not necessarily going to help. When I emotionally charge a wish I wish for nothing, when I hope I hope for hopeless. It seems a bit lunatic, but this is how I can generate the well-being associated with a closer relation to the Tao.

Yes, metaphysical speculation about anatman; that is, showing self-transcendent consciousness to be ultimately dissociated from all conditions, as opposed to the systematic study of those causes and conditions themselves. The difference is that Buddhist "theorizing" is primarily focused on showing that all formations are impermanent. (The Abhidharma also contains strange, seemingly pointless digressions into the height of the mythical Mount Meru. I can't imagine that kind of "theory" being helpful in any way myself, so I don't blame Mahayana for ditching that road of "inquiry".) In contrast, Taoism, for example, is concerned with clarifying the transformations of the universe without stopping at "Hah, this too is impermanent!" (...though it too has numerous Meru Moments. See for example the "reasoning" employed by Yü-ts'un in the Dream of the Red Chamber to explain generational differences.*) This is not to say that knowledge of impermanence and selflessness is worthless. However, like all distinctions, it is one-sided and incomplete if you cling to it. On the other hand, I do recognize it as a distinction particularly relevant to Buddhist practice, where it serves as a special gateway for spiritual accomplishment. * The factor connecting this to Meru is that both speculations reference domains to which the thinker couldn't possibly have had epistemic access. No Greek philosopher was hubristic enough to dictate the height of Mount Olympus from Intellect alone.

of course, it is Much More, than just a dream... Check this out: http://dao-jones.blogspot.com/2012/08/much-has-been-said-about-carlos.html

lol well actualy, what im trying to get at is, maybe it was more than just a simple dream...