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Hi Stosh - I'm not 100% clear on what you're asking. You mean the butterfly dream? Or Ch 38 (nee Ch 1) of the Laozi? Short continuation on ZZ and the butterfly -- he was a brilliant humorist and satirist, and just a bit cynical. A troll in today's terms. It's not meant to be profound; it's a biting commentary on his contemporaries in the philosophical circles. That passage was like a spider's web spun to catch flies. There was no doubt in his mind about his own manhood, and anyone who breathes through their heels should be grounded well-enough to know if he's a bug or not I didn't make this evaluation up (and I didn't channel it, haha). It's an argument that has been put out there by modern scholars, and it's the one find most likely. In either event, it's probably better to open up a new thread, no?

It could be...I just had another vision this morning.... I was trying to enter to a high speed subway train from the front of the cart, another opening into a tube like structure. I saw the LED display telling me "you can not...." Apparently, in this dream, the train took a different path and I was forced to get off in order to find my ways to reach to my destination. Where? Didn't know... Once I got off, I wanted to return back to the same train (because I was too confused) but this young man blocked my way. Told me I couldn't enter the train again. Before he pulled up the lock, I was expecting him to close the door on me too. I had many dreams dealing with the same theme. Wanting to return or to retrace my path but was told usually by some beings that I could not or I should not because I am not supposed to do that. I feel like Neo in Matrix stuck in the train station....waiting for his friends (somewhere out there) to rescue him....hehehe

From my perspective, you've touched on the parting of the way between Daoism and Buddhism, or better said, China and India. Chinese thought was always much more evidence-based, pragmatic and society-oriented, and so it is in the Laozi. Nobody was questioning reality or truth. There were no illusions. Re the butterfly dream, consider this: Zhuangzi was the original troll. He'd probably last about three days at TTB before getting banned.

... Honey's sweet, but it ain't nuthin' next to baby's treat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwZv-mooSW8 Girl, if it lasts for an hour, that's all right. We got all night to set the world right. Find us a dream that don't ask no questions. ...

I keep a practice journal and a dream journal. in yoda voice: much help they have been.

I have to ask the 2 brothers, dressed in the Han dynasty clothing, I saw in my vision/dream, prior to my kundalini energy raising...some 20 years ago. Taoist perhaps..... Zen's transmission of the mind?? You can also look up Pratyekabuddha yana if you like.. And you think it isn't Buddhist? And based on your experiences, perhaps??? How to uncling? Try psychoanalysis or Carl Jung's Analytical Psychology. Surely, with the modern age we are living in, even if you aren't well versed in the Buddhist teachings, you should be able to have some ideas about the nature of your suffering and illusions derived from your attachment to the skandha of forms. If you have more questions, try to read up on Master Nan Huai Chin's works. I walk the path. I don't preach it...see no need to. Don't have to prove anything....

I thought this is frightening interesting relating to my Vader fighting Luke dream, with Ukraine...heheheh... http://rt.com/news/vader-presidential-hopeful-ukraine-885/

If you're passionate about it, just do it. If it falls into chaos, walk away, no loss. If it thrives, you've found your dream a reality.

To whom it may concern, I have read countless forums, websites, and books on this issue without reaching a complete level of understanding or knowledge on it. I discovered the power of the retention of one's seed when I was 23 years old. It has been a life long dream to figure out how to harness that power for my health, spiritual growth, and longevity in life. I have been trying to solve this "problem" and "unlock the riddle" so to speak off and on for 9 years now, without reaching a level that I would deem "successful". I would like to ask for any help that I can. I have done 1 year of tai chi quan (15 hours a week). I've done tons of chi gong, meditation, and practices all geared towards this sort of practice. Recently (last month) I hit a huge milestone and broke my previous record of 40 days of retention. I abstained from all sexual activity for 43 days and established to myself that I could hold out indefinitely. If anyone is thinking about posting "You're learning this for the wrong reasons" or any silly stuff like that, or "You need to study 2 years of basic healing sounds, inner smile, and stuff like that before trying this", please just don't bother posting. I need real help and guidance. I've taken 6 months of courses from one of Michael Winn's teachers on top of my tai chi training and while it was lovely none of it helped a great deal for this particular problem. The teacher promised to teach me the microcosmic orbit and said it would be exactly what I needed, but I was greatly disappointed with the end result of that. Here are my issues: While I have great willpower and can abstain from sex indefinitely, the "energy" leaks out in my sleep. The moment I go to sleep, despite having no dreams of sex or any sexual thoughts, I maintain an erection all night and the energy slowly drains out. In other words, strict and permanent celibacy does not work for harnessing this energy. Over time my "cup" "fills up" so to speak, and begins spilling over. The energy needs to be moved, transmuted, or relieved, but I do not know any techniques that work for this. I have tried meditation, the microcosmic orbit, the "million dollar spot", controlling my PC muscles, breathing techniques, using my mind to "guide" the energy, and a long list of other techniques that others have suggested including "sat nam" and yogic types of exercises. I have read Mantak Chia's book and tried just about all of his techniques. I've practiced them for countless hours. When I do the microcosmic orbit, or the "big draw", or any of those practices, I feel a "cold energy" rising at the base of my spine. I've managed to get it to move part of the way up my back. I can feel a sort of energy moving. I also get "vibratory sensations" or "pumping sensations" in my spine when I have a lot of energy that has built up. Still, I am not able to conserve this energy, prevent it from flowing outward, and keeping it all for myself. What I need: I need a way to reduce, lessen, or move all of the "energy" that is constantly building up in my genitals. It just keeps building and building every day, and I don't know what to do with it. None of the techniques I have tried seem to work. The best thing I can do is use my PC muscles to clench and squeeze during sexual activity to minimize the amount of fluid I lose, but I end up urinating sexual fluid out through my bladder and in the end I lose energy. The whole time I'm doing this, I'm trying to use my breath, mind, microcosmic orbit, and other things to "guide" the energy "UP" instead of "down and out," and I have succeeded to some small degree, but nowhere near the level that I would like to reach. The energy always leaks out. The reason I'm posting this now is because I always thought that if I had enough willpower to maintain strict celibacy, that I would be able to retain my energy completely, and that I'd be able to build my energy levels, but as it turns out, celibacy doesn't cut it. You need some sort of practice or your cup just begins spilling over. I'm not horribly optimistic that anyone here can help me, but I thought I would try. I've been at this for 9 years now, and I would like to learn how to retain my seed before I start getting older. It would be depressing for me to live this life without ever having accomplished this or figured it out, especially after learning about it 9 years ago. Another question I have, is this practice REALLY this hard? I mean, I've been trying to learn it for 9 years with marginal success. It's difficult for me that the understand that the human body seems to be built to harness this sort of energy, and yet the method at which to do so seems to elude most the entire human population. It seems incredibly difficult. Am I overthinking this? Any and all help would be greatly appreciated.

It is the reverse for females, but if you are male, put your left ring finger on your left nostril and breath "rough prana" out the right nostril, then put the right ring finger on the right nostril and calmly and gently breath in "soft prana." Remove your finger, savour the breath for a bit, and then gently exhale. Repeat as desired. According to Tibetan traditions, the right channel (in men) is white and is where the negative prana and emotions flow, while the the left channel (in men) is red and is where wisdom and calm and positive prana flow. The central channel (in both men and women) is blue and is much wider than the other two. This is where non-dual rigpa awareness of the yet-to-be distinguished moment resides, according to Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche in "The Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep."

Dream yoga is a particularly powerful technique ...Dusum Khyenpa the 1st Karmapa (among others) attained realisation through it.

I do dream seldom remember dreams but never have nightmares ( that I remember). Used to get real wake up screaming and covered in sweat nightmares back in the day as an enduring legacy from a nasty bout of malaria. Quite a common side effect of malaria apparently and can stick with you for years. Old boy in India showed me a trick that works for me and I've not had a nightmare since as far as I know. Certainly no screamy- sweaty ones.

I try to keep this short. Basically, through various visions and dreams, I conclude that my yin energy is dominant, and I am supposed to follow my yin in my quest to find myself a new path. This yin energy is manifested, most of the times, as strangers or women I knew long time ago but don't have any contacts to them anymore. Like my old boss or some strange old lady. Yeah, I am feeling at lost for a while now but can't seem to be able to find a footing as to where to go with my life right now. Is not easy. Regardless what psychic ability I have about seeing the future, a lot of my future does not make sense at all. Worst, nothing is really going on with my waking life. What does it mean if my mind is telling me to follow my yin, as the energy manifested as female figures? Strange enough, in these visions, I wasn't actively following these female figures. I was just walking behind them or following their paths in an unintentional way. Worst, I don't have any meaningful connection to any significant others that may fit this yin role. Few nights ago, I dream there was a woman sleeping next to me, like my cousin but this cousin of my I haven't seen for over 10 years because we don't live in the same country anymore. I am lost but glad I can still see the future of world events unfolding....hehehe....sigh...

How can you accept full responsibility, when you don't seem to possess the necessary watch to tell what time it is? There seems to be all these times to be different emotions, and I sure don't have a watch either, but I wouldn't dream of accepting full responsibility for every word and post I present on a forum. That's like claiming that your posts are childproof, flameproof and generally omniproof. Some of your posts will poke someones eye out sooner or later, and you'll end up taking responsibility for being a sadistical eye gouger.

Did you re-enter in your dream after awaking or did you "interview" in another dream (another night (thinking to it or another technique (?)?

I love dream work. I found this book to be exceptional. http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/199519.The_Tibetan_Yogas_Of_Dream_And_Sleep

Dukkha is important because if it isn't fully understood that everything in samsara is suffering, in the sense that nothing can be a lasting peace, nothing can fill the apparent void, etc., then we will continue to search for lasting happiness and peace through worldly pursuits. We will continue to turn to the relative world for fulfillment, which is like trying to scoop up water with a fork, it will never happen. Only when we fully understand that there is no peace, solace or purpose to be found in samsara can the journey towards liberation begin. Otherwise we will always think there is meaning to be found in our relative desires and projected hopes, and we will attempt to find refuge in that without any possibility of it providing shelter. Just as the improvements and acquisitions in a dream cannot deliver lasting peace, the improvements and acquisitions of samsara cannot either. As long as we identify with the possibility of a greater or more refined experiences within the limited confines of samsara, we are building sandcastles. This is why the bhāvacakra is a wheel, why samsara is a cycle, no point is higher or lower than another. Every realm, including the god realms and so on, are delusion and suffering. Buddhahood and liberation are not depicted on the wheel for a reason.

* The following account was for many years the story that for me embodied every dream of ‘the most fulfilling experience’ I could possibly imagine. I really don’t know how many times I must have read and re-read it over the years. Again, it is taken from John Blofeld’s extraordinary real-life, spiritual adventures during the years he lived in pre-Communist China in the 1930’s. For anyone interested, I included the author’s biographical background in the anecdote from his Peking days posted in this thread on December 6, and a bit more can be found in the account of his visit to a Taoist Monastery posted on December 16. The extract below is the central tale taken from his wonderful autobiography, ‘The Wheel of Life’. In it Blofeld describes a pilgrimage he made to a remote, sacred mountain complex in China called ‘Wu T’ai’. The first few paragraphs below, (up to the chapter title with that name), are the background events which led to his decision to make this pilgrimage. I’ve included these causal links as well, not only because they are an integral part of the unfolding story, but also because they give the reader an exquisite and rare glimpse into what life was like in Peking before decades of communism destroyed those ways of living forever. [NOTE :] In posting this I've just had a notification pop up that it is too long. So, I'll try to cut it in two parts, cobbling the Peking lead-up together with this introduction. * * John Blofeld Wrote: * We chatted pleasantly of other matters over a freshly made pot of tea. After that, when I got up to take my leave, a novice was sent for to light me across the deserted courtyards. He arrived drowsy from interrupted sleep and carrying a long stick with a paper lantern bobbing on a string; its light was so dim that it barely sufficed to reveal the path. As the night was unusually dark, the temple halls with their great sweeping roofs, were at first invisible, but gradually they took shape, starkly black against the faint, scarcely perceptible luminosity of the starless sky. The swaying lantern, inscribed with two large scarlet characters –Harmony and Peace -cast a reddish glow which just reached down to the mossy flags of the successive courtyards. And when we came to the neglected outer courtyard, the slight glow startled insects, and perhaps reptiles, hidden in the thick carpet of rotting leaves, causing them to fly or slither away from under our feet. In the lanes beyond the gateway were latticed windows, nests of intersecting squares and triangles softly lit from within by wicks floating in saucers of oil. For, in that quiet corner of the Northern City, the electric light had as yet failed to penetrate, probably because most of the inhabitants were too poor to pay for its installation. As so often before, I derived a peculiar delight from the absence in my immediate surroundings of any sound, sight or smell which could remind me of the severe damage caused to an ancient civilization by the great tidal wave of Western influence. Peking was probably the last important Chinese city in which corners like this, entirely unchanged by the passage of centuries, still remained. A series of lanes led me to one of those broad, dimly lighted thoroughfares which owed their great width to architects who, though they had never envisaged modern traffic, had been concerned to allow space for the splendid cortege which had invariably accompanied the Son of Heaven during a progress through the city. The road was now smoothly paved and the rickshaw which carried me towards home moved at the speed of a fast-trotting horse. A little way from the mouth of my own lane, I shouted to the rickshaw-puller to halt. I had caught sight of a screen standing before a broad gateway which bore two gilded characters on a green background signifying 'bathing-hall'. As it was still too early for bed, I decided to spend two or three hours enjoying a hot bath and a Chinese-style massage. My spirit had just received its fair share of attention, it was now the body's turn. A bowing attendant led me to the public drying-room where forty or fifty patrons lay about on partitioned platforms covered with clean towelling. When I had undressed and girded my loins with a towel to satisfy Pekingese prudery, I passed into the bathroom, where three baths the size of small swimming pools containing water at varying temperatures awaited my choice. I chose the middle one, knowing it would be quite hot enough to turn my whole body scarlet and, after soaping myself carefully beneath a shower, I cautiously lowered myself into it. There I was allowed to soak in peace until an attendant was free to give me a massage, for which purpose he spread-eagled me on a sort of crucifix inserted at the shallow end and leant against the side of the bath. The massage was so vigorous as to be actually painful, but it left me with a feeling of renewed strength. Back in the drying-room, where I was subjected to another sort of rather painful massage, I waited till the man had finished slapping my flesh and tweaking my nerves, and then lay back with a sigh of relief to enjoy a pot of good tea and some dumplings containing a confection of sugared beans. Presently, my left- and right-hand neighbours began to chat with me. Discovering to his surprise that I am a Buddhist, one of them asked me if I had ever been to the sacred mountain of Wu T'ai. 'No, I haven't. Do you advise me to go ?' 'Yes, yes. It is a wonderful place. Such mountains. It will take you a week by mule from the nearest station. But when you get there, ah! So many profound scholars. Wonderful! And there's a Living Buddha and a Great Lama all the way from Lhasa. Such people! And do you know, the whole plateau is covered with flowers - wild flowers, just like a garden. As for temples, you'll never believe till you see. Two hundred, three hundred; who knows ? I was posted there once as assistant clerk to the magistrate. What a wonderful time that was! Of course I was delighted to return to our Peking, but I'll never forget Wu T'ai Shan - never! And you, Mr P'u, as a Buddhist, you'll feel that you've got to Amida Buddha's Western Paradise already. Yes, really you will. Believe me. Heaven on earth.' Until he got on to the subject of Wu T'ai, he had seemed a long-winded sort of man, but his enthusiasm for the place made his sentences positively staccato. By now, the conversation had become for me much more than a pleasant way of passing the evening. I was intrigued, especially when I remembered that my 'shaman' had come from Wu T’ai. By the time I began dressing, I was estimating my resources and planning an early visit to the fabulous mountain. It was then so late that we were almost the only Patrons left in the bath-house. *

3Bob....Ah, I dunno. Co-opting is the way things change and adapt when brought to new cultural contexts. While purists may scoff, the results aren't necessarily bad. I'm living in Mexico right now, and know a thing or two about authentic Mexican food, and I can tell ya, it ain't the same as the "Mexican" cuisine in most restaurants in say, Portland, Oregon. For starters, when you go to a restaurant here in Zacatecas nobody brings you a complementary bowl of chips and salsa. And guys wouldn't dream of quaffing down margaritas with their meal. Just doesn't happen. Does that mean there's something wrong with chips and salsa accompanied by a nice margarita? Not in my book. It's much the same, I think, with western yoga. The arguably dumbed down stretching that passes for yoga in many gyms isn't the same as one might find in India, but that doesn't mean no good can come from it.

But his awareness happened after he woke up. Yes, in this story this is true. But if he truely is a butterfly then it is thinking that he is Chuang Tzu that is the dream. But then this all is based on what limits we have placed on our senses. True. However, there are objective truths. There are subjective assumptions. I assume that the tree is a tree because it fits the criteria that I have been told what a tree is. The word "tree" has nothing to do with the objectivity of the tree.

Well Mh, since the thing says, when he's dreaming about being the butterfly , he is , as I see it , taking the position that from his perspective that the butterfly state is not , objectively true , that it is but a dream. And vice versa if he looks at the situation from being a butterfly. From a third person philosophical perspective , you or me , we could deny the verifiable factualness of both , or neither , or either. . but as it seems to me ,, the butterfly is what would normally be considered to be a subjective stance , since it has no material substance , and objectively , he was a man , since he was material , provable because he could write about it and therefore has opposable thumbs. Im just using conventional standards for the meanings of the words to say something about the importance of perspective as relates to what gets called REAL. Youre already aware that any evidence that we have about things we consider real , requires a concession to our subjective state - essentially that we infer based on our senses , senses which are limited. The only thing we directly know as real - is the I part - and thats subjective. Hence.. the paradox of the parable.

An intriguing part of some taoist alchemical practices is the ability to reherse death. In the deeper conscious dream practices there are methods to re-integrate the different soul spirits that would generally separate out at death. Thats more Michael Winns bag. A good place to get other views might be to ask on his site and/or get his Dream CD. Tibetans have there Powa practices too, a similar death practice. I do think its important to live for today, but keep a consciousness of death. I think its important to die well and to calm and together after death. Michael

Ah Marblehead you who know so much of soldiery ... perhaps you will understand what happened next ..... I don't know how many weeks I wandered those dusty roads clogged with old people fleeing the cities, pursued by gangs of youths waving their red books. Suddenly the world seemed full of wizened Taoist trying sell their magic juju balls. So many times I had to show my claws and scowl 'get out of my way granddad'. But one evening I came across a group of soldiers sat around a camp fire. They shared their canned meat with me and seemed quite friendly until one grabbed me saying "General Ho needs a mascot!" If being a mascot means being bounced around in the back of truck driven at 100 mph on the un-made roads of South East Asia I want nothing of it, I thought. But the next day I heard talk that warmed my heart. We were off to somewhere called Dien Bien Phu to see the French. The French! At the sound of that name tears welled up in my eyes as I remembered that day when we danced at the Eagles Nest and mein Fuhrer had said, laughing, "this morning we dance and this evening we dine in Paris!". So packed in a little plane we had flown all the way. We gazed from the windows at all Europe spread before us, while Adolf bent over his newspaper muttering. "I cannot finish this crossword," he said, " all I need is the final solution!", "I think I can help you there," joked Herr Himmler. And we all roared with laughter. And Paris! So full of ladies with petticoats and no underwear. But when we arrived at Dien Bien Phu it was a different story. The hills bristled with the fighting Viet Minh, armed to the teeth and eager for war. Below them were the French, totally surrounded. Surrounded and yet it seems, oblivious. In the centre of their camp was a long trestle table covered with a spotless white cloth. Around it sat the soldiers eating fresh bread and duck pate, and sipping a delightful Pinot Noir. At the head of the table the commander in chief stood upon a crate, a glass of claret in one hand and a gauloise in the other, reciting Baudelaire. There is nothing so sweet and musical, so sensuous or dramatic, so mellifluous as the French mother tongue, spoken aloud under an open sky … especially when it is punctuated by the rippling crack, bang and thud of 81 mm mortar shells landing all about. As the Viet Minh surged forward as if lured on by the smell of ripe camembert, I can tell you I wept. It was not just that I was witnessing the slaughter of a majestic foe, it was that I was seeing the victory of modernity over art, efficiency over style and brute force over charm. Never again, I thought, would tousle haired existentialists dressed in white linen ferry their wives and mistresses through the misty back waters of the Mekong Delta while a nectarine sun set over distant smoke blue hills. It was the end of French Indo-China, the end of an imperial dream, which like an antique palace was slowly collapsing into the sea of history. As the last battle cries rang out, I sloped quietly away into the undergrowth, I wanted none of it.

You are a killjoy, marblehead....!!! PS.... You too, silent thunder.......... PSS.... No one is a master here. It was only a dream. We are just having a little humor as usual, that's all.

Well well, you "Mark" and "Rara" should consider joining a Stillnessmovement Qigong Workshop. As the efforts you do and have without tranmission have a good natural basis and would take effort to the dantien awareness, which indeed has an effect, but the difference is with a transmission is first to have it easier to reach Dream Qigong and second to go to higher vibration planes while in sleep mode and third the amount of effort put into staying in the lower Dantien will give you more harvest. This makes me think and feel that you would do well with receiving the transmission from the Jing Dong Gong Lineage.