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Can't prove either argument...it's of little importance. BUT, we do have perception. That's all we have. So we create this perception...a dream or reality...both the same in the sense that all we can do it perceive and see images/have physical and emotional feelings.

Also, verse 29...I had a lucid dream of this when I was 14. I will never forget.

You are right that "making self-surrender the object of thought, one lays hold of concentration, one lays hold of single-pointedness of mind"- that's a quote from the Pali Canon attributed to Gautama (who was later called the Buddha). I'm a big fan of Rumi! As to whether awareness of the small, human, and humble nature of one's circumstance in this life can cause a person to become supernatural, or almost supernatural- I don't know. I've had that awareness a number of times, I think, and for me it passes without resulting in any noticeable change to my monster/non-monster status. Ha ha, if you know what I mean! Currently I'm convinced that monsters like Chino sensei, Kobun's master, appear supernatural because of their ability to fall upright into trance at every opportunity. My definition of trance is like that attributed to Milton Erickson in the Wikipedia post about him, where his induction of hypnosis in a subject during the course of a handshake is described: "This induction works because shaking hands is one of the actions learned and operated as a single "chunk" of behavior; tying shoelaces is another classic example. If the behavior is diverted or frozen midway, the person literally has no mental space for this - he is stopped in the middle of unconsciously executing a behavior that hasn't got a "middle". The mind responds by suspending itself in trance until either something happens to give a new direction, or it "snaps out". A skilled hypnotist can often use that momentary confusion and suspension of normal processes to induce trance quickly and easily." Erickson used self-hypnosis to overcome the pain he had everyday as a result of polio and other illnesses he had experienced; he said this about his use of hypnosis: "I go into trances so that I will be more sensitive to the intonations and inflections of my patients' speech. And to enable me to hear better, see better." He saw trance as an everyday occurrence: "The same situation is in evidence in everyday life, however, whenever attention is fixated with a question or an experience of the amazing, the unusual, or anything that holds a person's interest. At such moments people experience the common everyday trance; they tend to gaze off to the right or left, depending upon which cerebral hemisphere is most dominant (Baleen, 1969) and get that faraway or blank look. Their eyes may actually close, their bodies tend to become immobile (a form of catalepsy), certain reflexes (e.g., swallowing, respiration, etc.) may be suppressed, and they seem momentarily oblivious to their surroundings until they have completed their inner search on the unconscious level for the new idea, response, or frames of reference that will restabilize their general reality orientation. We hypothesize that in everyday life consciousness is in a continual state of flux between the general reality orientation and the momentary microdynamics of trance..." So I think the reason some masters appear to be monsters is that they are in touch with the dream-aspect of life through the induction of trance in themselves at every opportunity, which results in the sharpening of the senses that Erickson spoke of. In fact, they practice letting go of action and allowing the necessity of their circumstance move their bodies, a necessity which includes all the senses and even what is perceived in the senses but not necessarily manifest in consciousness. They are faster than the normal person, in a slow sort of way- ha ha!

yabyum wrote: ❤!! What is wonderful is that in finding that just this place is Reality, that it is the function of everyday situations and that this pivot having been on the verge of action in perpetuity both in terms of absolute and temporal—its Sameness is pristine incipience; whether we get involved or not. The scene changes and affects our relativebalance according to our attachment. What is so alien to most everyone is the notion of the mechanism within the critical juncture of every cycle. Cycles repeat because they are so by virtue of creation. This is the mechanism. This is because in talking about it, it seems like doing. There is no doing involved. It is a matter of seeing. The simple over-riding fact of life is that in not seeing is how we get dragged along by circumstances. So in seeing is the key to the enlightening mechanism of detaching from creation at the right time. Immortalists use the mechanism to their own advantage to return to the beginning of every cycle by incrementally seeing a bit of the essence inherent in all of creation. In following creation, one gets karma. In following Tao, one gets immortality. Seeing through phenomena without denying characteristics is how not to follow creation. There is no other way to follow Tao by virtue of seeing the essence of potential in everyday ordinary situations than by not going along with created karmic cycles. Seeing and karmic involvement are mutually exclusive. Though they are the same in terms of potential, yet one ordinarily follows the light of conscious awareness of life and death or one naturally follows it in reverse to arrive at its source of nonorigination. There is no other mechanism beyond the incipient manifest respiration of the Way, which is the alternation of yin and yang, whether it is seen or unseen in the course of affairs. Ordinary people go along, whereas enlightening beings go in reverse thereby to return to the source; at first incrementally, then, eventually, they return all at once. Otherwise there is a tendency for people to think of following Tao as a moralistic, passive, or even a preemptive avoidance strategy. It is beyond convention. It is already inside you, naturally to be discovered by those who will. How else would one enter into inconceivability than by entering the mystery of the Tao in reality? Tao is Mind. There is no other mind. There aren't two, let alone one. It is in willing to treat mundane situations as completely real adventures, where one consciously and honestly doesn't dare to presume upon one's conventional knowledge as ordinary people do habitually— thereby to speculate on their relative karmically saturated outcomes. One is already vulnerable to the consequences of events, aware or not. There are no innocent bystanders; no survivors. Using ordinary circumstances to practice authentic unknowing is a game of life and death— not in the morbid sense, but in the sense of self-refinement leading to arrival of harmonizing one's light in the Tao as well as harmonizing the light of awareness to the circumstantial events requiring our response. In buddhist terms, meeting the matter of life and death is not living one's life in vain by actually experiencing the Great Death, the Great Wonder of suddenly arriving at the selfless realization of essential nonorigination which is spoken in terms of the absolute. Regardless of relative or absolute, gradual or sudden, the reality of the matter of life and death is one, without before or after in perpetuity. I'm talking about right now, right here. This is the natural pivot of awareness of enlightening being, and no one knows why. Actually how "catching the Tao" comes to pass is in detaching from habitual psychological patterns, and their combined momentums. Eventually, after a long time, artificial momentum loses its kinetic (karmic) force, and in letting the world pass us by, the Tao's influence in our lives picks up our brave and lovely inner hitch-hiker who wouldn't dare dream of knowing how the next fresh breath will or won't come to pass in the next turn.

The Tao is when you are automatically and spontaneously living in the present moment without being subject with the limitations of the self and are functioning as awareness. You come you go, you are depleted and you are restored, you flow on upwards and then flow on downwards. You just keep on flowing without the thought of self like “I” did this and “I” did that, hey look at “me”, “me”, “me”. What I mean is when you need to eat you eat and witness this function without attachment with self. I do not eat but it eats all by its self. I do not walk, but it walks all by its self. I do not think, it thinks all by its self. I do not dream, it dreams all by its self. I do not see, it sees all by its self. I do not sleep, it sleeps all by its self. I do not die, it dies all by its self. Do we follow?

No, I am not saying that I would rather play in the dream than wake up. Ime saying it might be useful to have fun playing in the dream if you haven't woken up yet. There is a difference! So no one else wants to say anything about this besides our resident hardcore advietist?

It often hits me as I lay down to sleep... that I'm being breathed, not breathing... that the same force that twists galaxies and forms black holes grows my fingernails and pumps my heart while I dream.

I've had more then my share of good luck today. Thank you powers that be. May all beings sleep well and have pleasant dream tonight.

I don't think someone here is wrong necessarily, or in many such debates (this one is just a really good example). There are several different realities, several different ways to go about things, several different "universes" (for lack of a better word, you know what I mean :>). Hmm, I doubt SM calls their yin qi anything like MP yin qi... Perhaps different qi's or perhaps accessing different frequencies or whatever of said qi. Perhaps different qi's for different things? I know what you are saying, is all others are really variants of yang qi, but perhaps there are variants of this. A rainbow has more than black and white (OK red and white, whatever lol). Or the whole shades of grey thing... so many billion frequencies (and realities). I practice magic (as everyone already knows I'm sure); and I've heard some folks say such and such path doesn't have any power (and I agree in some cases lol), however it is more about the person than the path. What I did realize in all this (as each of the two paths were saying the other didn't have any power) is that each could not perceive or feel the frequencies outside of what they worked with and what they were used to! I found this rather interesting, and actually experienced it myself. Perhaps it is sort of like some folks can walk under power line conductors or past the power stations and not feel a thing, where I get pretty messed up (confirmed by double blind accidental experiments unfortunately). You are asking us to be able to allow, open up and dream enough to accept that the MoPai stuff is reality, yet you are now allowing yourself to accept that you can achieve this in a lifetime. You are perhaps selling yourself short. I'm one of those believe anything is *possible* and just put 100% effort in . I also think that opening up and accepting what most feel is impossible is a good thing. I think that perhaps the chances of you convincing TTBs about this particular Yin qi thing has about the same probability as the folks who come to my door with bibles convincing me to join them . Though I do remember my ex used to invite them in for tea and have long discussions with them. I did tend to feel a little sorry for them lolololol.

Every master I know who comes from China (not Taiwan, Singapore, Hong Kong, or the US) was poorer than most of you can begin to imagine for the longest time, and every one of them is doing very well financially today. Every one of them is authentic, hard-working, and has unique "goods" to offer to those who are capable of prioritizing their lives so as to get them. All of their learning and practice predating their financial success by several decades happened while they were living in abject poverty. I have only one thing to say to all those countless middle-class freebie seekers who, never having known hunger, back-breaking labor since early age, or any material privations whatsoever, continuously launch diatribes against masters going "commercial." And that is, if it was up to me, I'd take everything you ever had through no merit of yours, just because you were born into more cushioned circumstances, and take it back in time and give to those kids who are now elderly men and women finally living close to your standard of living which you consider your birthright and which is in reality your dumb luck. I'd eliminate dumb luck and make this world a meritocracy. But of course it's only a dream... ...for now.

In a dream many breaths ago a baby born from a blue ethereal woman danced and announced to me: "If you see me smiling it's because I am happy ever after. If you see me crying it will only be with laughter."

And a beautiful, uplifting and even a little mystical poem, to bring a little Spring magic into this dreary Autumn day: i thank you God for most this amazing day: for the leaping greenly spirits of trees and a blue true dream of sky;and for everything which is natural which is infinite which is yes! (i who have died am alive again today, and this is the sun's birthday; this is the birth day of life and of love and wings;and of the gay great happening illimitably earth) how should tasting touching hearing seeing breathing any---lifted from the no of all nothing---human merely being doubt unimaginable You? (now the ears of my ears awake and now the eyes of my eyes are opened) ~~~e. e. cummings~~~

The word אבן stone consists of אב father and בן son. There is a bigger mystery. When Joseph had his dream (Ge 37:9 ), there were eleven stars which bowed down to him. He was the twelfth son. The twelve disciples were never meant to be counted as twelve in the mystery. Jesus was the twelfth son. Of the twelve stones on the breastplate of the priest, Jesus was the cornerstone. He was rejected by his brethren just as Joseph was. The word בנא build is the word בנ son followed by the aleph א representing separation. The builders were the sons who were separated from God. They rejected Christ.

Really nice, infinity. Just for the sake of presence, my critique is a very subtle one that takes the line out of a possessive and personal context to activate its dynamic in terms of unity (which is already implied) by modifying the two key elements to an active accepting; loving. Albeit a very small nit-picky point— and not all that important in the final analysis. It's wonderful to dig up these old things and realize how well they resonate with and strengthen the continuity of our practice. Roger said: I know what you mean… in terms of really enacting a dynamic of impersonal vulnerability that gets into the heart of things by fearlessly employing an unconditional openness that wouldn't dream of wanting to change anything because in terms of authentic presence, outcomes are already as they are. Speculative patterns just create a self-conscious self-reflective state which constitutes a false kind of vulnerability that acts like a bait to seduce others (whereby we can blame others for taking it, or not) …but that's another subject.❤ ed note: add "Roger said" above second quote

hehe, questions! Fun. I dream almost always. They are wild, crazy, constantly changing. Often times violent in some form. Like an action movie! Courage? Hmm....I have it and I dont. Its a constant pull between knowing what I want to do/ be and restricting my self. Overall, I have quite a bit of courage. I always do what is right for me at the time. No matter how scary. What say you, oh wise one?! Peace

yabyum wrote: ❤!! What is wonderful is that in finding that just this place is Reality, that it is the function of everyday situations and that this pivot having been on the verge of action in perpetuity both in terms of absolute and temporal—its Sameness is pristine incipience; whether we get involved or not. The scene changes and affects our relative balance according to our attachment. What is so alien to most everyone is the notion of the mechanism within the critical juncture of every cycle. Cycles repeat because they are so by virtue of creation. This is the mechanism. This is because in talking about it, it seems like doing. There is no doing involved. It is a matter of seeing. The simple over-riding fact of life is that in not seeing is how we get dragged along by circumstances. So in seeing is the key to the enlightening mechanism of detaching from creation at the right time. Immortalists use the mechanism to their own advantage to return to the beginning of every cycle by incrementally seeing a bit of the essence inherent in all of creation. In following creation, one gets karma. In following Tao, one gets immortality. Seeing through phenomena without denying characteristics is how not to follow creation. There is no other way to follow Tao by virtue of seeing the essence of potential in everyday ordinary situations than by not going along with created karmic cycles. Seeing and karmic involvement are mutually exclusive. Though they are the same in terms of potential, yet one ordinarily follows the light of conscious awareness of life and death or one naturally follows it in reverse to arrive at its source of nonorigination. There is no other mechanism beyond the incipient manifest respiration of the Way, which is the alternation of yin and yang, whether it is seen or unseen in the course of affairs. Ordinary people go along, whereas enlightening beings go in reverse thereby to return to the source; at first incrementally, then, eventually, they return all at once. Otherwise there is a tendency for people to think of following Tao as a moralistic, passive, or even a preemptive avoidance strategy. It is beyond convention. It is already inside you, naturally to be discovered by those who will. How else would one enter into inconceivability than by entering the mystery of the Tao in reality? Tao is Mind. There is no other mind. There aren't two, let alone one. It is in willing to treat mundane situations as completely real adventures, where one consciously and honestly doesn't dare to presume upon one's conventional knowledge as ordinary people do habitually— thereby to speculate on their relative karmically saturated outcomes. One is already vulnerable to the consequences of events, aware or not. There are no innocent bystanders; no survivors. Using ordinary circumstances to practice authentic unknowing is a game of life and death— not in the morbid sense, but in the sense of self-refinement leading to arrival of harmonizing one's light in the Tao as well as harmonizing the light of awareness to the circumstantial events requiring our response. In buddhist terms, meeting the matter of life and death is not living one's life in vain by actually experiencing the Great Death, the Great Wonder of suddenly arriving at the selfless realization of essential nonorigination which is spoken in terms of the absolute. Regardless of relative or absolute, gradual or sudden, the reality of the matter of life and death is one, without before or after in perpetuity. I'm talking about right now, right here. This is the natural pivot of awareness of enlightening being, and no one knows why. Actually how "catching the Tao" comes to pass is in detaching from habitual psychological patterns, and their combined momentums. Eventually, after a long time, artificial momentum loses its kinetic (karmic) force, and in letting the world pass us by, the Tao's influence in our lives picks up our brave and lovely inner hitch-hiker who wouldn't dare dream of knowing how the next fresh breath will or won't come to pass in the next turn. ed note: add text below "❤!!", add "in perpetuity. I'm talking about right now, right here." in penultimate paragraph

Interesting thread and good to look back at who I was and am and will be... My dream as a young boy say 12ish was to be fully enlightened and to have full knowledge of myself and reality and to choose the moment of my death and just leave. I guess I kind of wanted total power/knowledge and no fear. Had a pretty good crack at it when I was 21 energetically (Bliss, forehead cracked open and had no body just conciousness) but came to a kind of dead end on my knowledge as it was forced and not a balanced holistic experience. I kind of realised I had to get a job take care of myself (rent etc.. ) and enter the system fully or join a spiritual institution which was not for me as I like my freedom of choice. My ultimate dreams are the same although I have taken detours and gone in other directions seemingly to push back the world which demands so much (so it seems) and changed my understanding of those goals. These ultimate dreams have become more important than ever now I have young children. As I want to be the best dad I can and that means being honest to my heart and its dreams. If I can give them anything it would be love, wisdom (qi gong / greater conciousness) and understanding (compassion), if I don't cultivate these how can I give them. Obviously I will also show them to the best of my aility how to navigate the world too. I have other dreams too but these are for the practicalities of life.

Yeah, the desire to talk about music will almost always bring people closer together. I PMed him once with a request to return but got no response. Yeah, I can understand that. Chase the dream. When you get my age dreams don't even matter anymore. Holding to a plan for just one day is enough of a challenge. Perhaps he is still young and reserved? His interests indicate that he could be posting all over this board. I can't recall any post from him telling us about something he constructed with bamboo.

In the book I mentioned the author talks about making the energosoma (I think) more flexible in order to more easily move out-of-body. I would just call it the energy body. In any case I want to exercise my energy body, make it more flexible, make it easier for me to astral project. I also want to have a focus object during meditation that requires intense concentration, which this does. I have tried counting, focusing on breath, eyes half-lidded and eyes closed and mantras. I catch myself making, for lack of a better term, a thought-noise for my breaths when I focus on breaths, counting works OK but is itself a thought, and whatever purpose that is supposed to be accomplished through eyes open is beyond me. If I close my eyes I get lost in imagery more often than not. I have also tried "just sitting" type meditation. Making meditation itself the object of my focus is too subtle I guess for me :/ The most focused meditations I have had were sitting outside focusing on the wind. I can sometimes do that inside focusing on raindrops. Sometimes I can focus on the feel of my beating heart, but I am hesitant because I had done this before and had chest pains, although this has not happened recently. So my goal here is to combine meditation with a meditation object that requires a lot of focus, the end goal to consciouslly (and fully) astral project as well as dream.

I am reading a book: http://www.amazon.com/Demystifying-Out-Body-Experience-Exploration/dp/0738730793 In it the author teaches an energy exercises, where you think about an area, like the top of your head, and you direct energy down through your body, out through your feet, and back in and up again. No mental imagery or visualizations. No looking at the areas of the body where this is occurring. No matching your breathing to it. I think I understand it, I feel the energy as warmth and I follow it with my mind, feeling it, as it slowly (and I mean slowly) goes through my body. Some areas are energetically blocked, and I just direct my thoughts to them and feel until I actually can feel the warmth. I have added to this a practice of doing the same thing at the base of my spine, gathering energy there. I have had some very vivid dreams from this, and I may have actually projected, because in one of my dreams I was in a car that flew out over a cliff, so a definite sense of flying. Also longer dream recall. Well I have been struggling in my meditation practice, and obviously energy is not flowing very well in my physical body, so I thought, OK, let's, metaphorically speaking, kill two birds with one stone! Tomorrow I intend to meditate on the movement of energy in my body, focusing on that as I send it down from the top of my head, out, and up through the soles of my feet. I think this is a really cool idea, but what do you folks think? I appreciate your advice! - DreamBliss

I was recently having some pretty intense thoughts about my True Will, Life Purpose.etc.I have found that my dreams and ambitions change as i change as an individual. I was doing one of those Pavlov Hierarchy list of needs and this is what i came up with from top to bottom. 1. Cultivation 2. Practicing Divination (Tarot) 3. Practicing Martial Arts 4. Pursue a career that involves, compliments or enables me to do the above 3 -In many ways i am already living my dream as i do the above 3 already.i just need to find an occupation once i finish up college that enhances my ability to do them. You're idea about starting a retreat center sounds really cool BKS, give us an update when it comes to fruition. My 2 cents, Peace

Now why the quoting box holds soaring crane responsible for my octopus is anyone's guess. (And I changed it a bit because turns out it's Ringo Starr's dream, but Ringo has one syllable too many in his first name, and one extra consonant in his last.) Everyone you meet walks in a rainbow aura. Want to paint it black?

Nightmare of the shrimp, the octopus, Beatles's dream. Garden in the shade...

Rara , my opinion is that it depends on where you are at . If you are truly capable to "shower love" in your dreams than do it as that is going to raise your vibrations and do not allow space and reason for negativity of any sort . If not , experiment and see what works . It is about finding our own unique courage , love , wisdom -- our own way of relating to life . Learning to walk all over again . On spiritual path we are learning how innerscape and outerscape , dream and awake connect and interviene . What you are going through is a MUST for all of us , and we all must learn it -- our way . Learn to navigate through these pathless pathways without any signposts and see through thick fog . It is really strange how life turns out to be .

"Sleep researchers estimate that nearly three quarters of our dream emotions are negative." http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=15778923