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i am reading my first book by him, Dream Yoga and the Practice of Natural Light which reminds me of another great living master, Geshe Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche, a Bon shaman and meditation master

Good questions. There is not complete certainty. Also I cannot really put a finger on it. The best I can do is say that which is unchanging is the space in which everything arises in. That which holds everything, but actually isn't anything itself. As a thought rises up in the mind, this space is what carries it and is behind it. When I go to sleep I am not mindful enough to know I am sleeping, I have only had a lucid dream a few times. Can you give me a few pointers and point me in the right direction.

Ooh! Lucky you! I hope to get that copy and most of Master Hua's other books as well. His 9 volume translation and commentary set on the Shurangama Sutra / Mantra is amazing. Can only dream of how awesome his 10 volume translation/commentary on the Lotus Sutra must be as well.

The first absolute bodhicitta proverb says, "Treat everything you perceive as a dream." For me, fun is each moment I'm aware of that. Lao Tzu purportedly said, "Recognize that everything you see and think is a falsehood, an illusion, a veil over the truth." Hua Hu Ching 48. Fun for me is each moment that saying comes before my ignorance. V

I can't directly speak on what the lotus posture can or can't do, but I think that the first sentence Joe Blast has given you cannot be understated. In China there is the phrase, 动则生阳: movement gives birth to yang. Your condition certainly sounds like one of yang insufficiency. In fact, even your statement, "maybe something that doesn't take more than 20 minutes so i can focus on my sitting practices," is an indicator of this. As one of my closest teachers has said more than once, "when the student is inclined to sit more and more, this is generally a sign that s/he needs to practice more movement. When the student is inclinded to move more and more, this is generally a sign that s/he needs to practice more sitting." In my opinion, garnered in part from personal experience, in part from listening to teachers, and in part from observing patients visiting the TCM doctors I study with in China, this point is really very important if you want to overcome the health problems you've mentioned. If you really only have twenty minutes to spare but want to get your yang qi moving, then I am inclined to suggest that, like Joe Blast says, you do something that really gets you to "break a sweat, motivate fluids of all sorts, eat, rest." Motivating fluids is probably very important for a person reporting a weak immune system--you gotta get that lymph fluid moving! I don't know anything about rebounding but Mr. Lomax certainly seems to know his stuff, so you might want to look into that. If you want to get the kind of results you're looking for from gentler practices, you're probably going to need to invest more time. As another of my teachers says, "gong fu is nothing other than the time you spend." I've been seeing great improvements in my health lately with nothing more than an increase in my standing and circle-walking practices. But we're talking 45 minutes of the former and 1 1/2 to 2 hours of the latter, day in, day out. A mere twenty minutes of either ain't gonna do ya! Conversely, I have a lot of friends out here who wish for major health benefits from a quarter or half hour of gentle taiji or qigong movements done here and there. Others in our modern world where most people barely move all day somehow dream of fixing their body with even more sitting! Unfortunately, from what I see around me, this path just doesn't seem to work unless you're at such a high level that your internal qi movement is as great or greater than what you would get from serious exercise. I only know two people at that level. One is 89 and lives in a cave, the other meditates all day and barely eats. Us normal folk require movement!

I've been reading Sufi writings lately. Sufi Shayks also have their students do many prostrations to empty out the Ego. Indeed I'm convinced Muhammad required it 5x a day in Islam for exactly that reason. To drain out the Ego and especially drain out the Ego's self-centeredness and pride. In particular I've been really loving the book The Sufi Science of Self-Realization: A Guide to the 17 Ruinous Traits, the 10 Steps to Discipleship, and the Six Realities of the Heart It is clear there is Spiritual Wisdom in the Middle East every bit as ancient as those found in India and China. On the very first page I grinned because I immediately recognized Shayk Kabbani describing No-Self realization (although Sufi's don't call it "No-Self" but there was absolutely NO mistaking he was describing No-Self)! Tibetan Buddhism also has a prostration practice. I think it's called Ngrondo. There seems to be something activated by bowing that helps the ego dissolve. However, I was under the impression one needed to be part of a lineage for it to work. But maybe it works even for those who do not have a formal teacher or guide of any kind. I'm pretty keen on trying anything that will empty out both thoughts and the ego. I remember reading something from Paramhansa Yogananda's Autobiography of a Yogi. "Don't do what you want, then you may do what you like." I dream of the day of having that kind of freedom.

Just to be clear, I was speaking of ancient Christianity and even ancient Judaism...not modern Christianity, which demonizes dream interpretation and divination. Lots of interesting stuff hidden in the OT...

Sure. Native Americans are all about the dream stuff. It's intriguing. My own personal problem with the "bible" is that I think it was tampered with in a major way. Some people with an agenda literally added quite a few things. The scribes and priests in those days were pretty skilled (and devious?). As a result I don't trust much of it to give me "the real deal". Bits and pieces. A lot of good articles here by Melissa Cutler w/plausible proof: http://www.original-bible.com/ We have a tough job as decent humans. Lots of junk to sift through. The thing that attracted me to the Tao is the distillation of things down to the most important part. The writings directly link to the reality of the human situation. None of it goes overboard. There is no hype or outlandish situations. Just saying. Not arguing or anything.

Finding a good teacher is something difficult as from expirience and from expirience by others who run 30 years around (I befriend often much older in the past, since they are better to talk, have developed the concious, finding young people.... you want me to play the lottery and win- waste of money- gamblers like to say they feel the luck? People like Milarepa. This perhaps are story of people who had make it into history. History do not talk about losers and victims in a documentary they are not the main protagonist when they are not relevant in the developement and story of the "winner" And each of us is not directly Milarepa, some really search like one of my Uncles to believe in immortals or wonders for 40 years and he was riding China up and down as well Vietnam and for some kind of reason he not find the wonder he was seeking for only recentyl on behalf of told by my father that I may do the same mistake he told me to stop everything (well I cultivate at that time half of interest and half because my Chronic Fatique interferes with my life) so my father told about Sifu Joong (forget in which US State he immigrated) a friend and both were than telephone with him. And I would if I accept become the only student of him in Bagua Tai Chi Chuan - and he refuse to accept others. (Rare lineage, can be read at martial arts exeperts.com or so. Well Uncle Phan has then vist Sifu Joong (no school, work on the roads), and he is prone in is Fighting Skills in Hung Gar KungFu who can lift with one arm 4 tires of a truck and still likes to fight in his age. But well seeing Sifu Joong perform Tai Chi and use "Sheng Qi" moving things around call wind, Uncle Phan compares him with Jet Li in Tai Chi as being more impressive. And he not dare to spare with him. Well meeting the wonder he seeks after 40 years with out seeking is different than his 40 years active search and this man only fear to look old! It is that you may just run around and let go that the teacher may scout you, because he saw you in a dream or had been told by the spirt world to look for signs. Else like Sifu Joong remaing quite not even sorrow that the Art level of the teachings is lost to a new generation for already rare lineage, just doing his job as a steet worker doing the roads instead of opening and make him known trough the states by participating in contest - no- just humble work and humble genuine exercise. And giving me an offer and here I do not "put in the effort to find your teacher and genuine teachings", I did was I did and still I have not put my ass over the seas and spare my money for stay there for a while.

I noticed you mentioned synchronicity in an earlier post. That was happening to be like crazy when I had the idea to make a 42Hz CD and do metta meditation each night. When I started meditating with it each day it got worse and worse, to the point it was absurd. Reality began to feel exactly like a dream, because there was no way for so many coincidences, ironies and synchronous events to happen. It might be a warning for you, not to advance. I think an EEG and software to watch your brainwaves for feedback would be a much much safer alternative than forcing your brainwaves into a state. Remember gamma is linked to consciousness itself, start screwing with it and it might disrupt your disrupt your input/output carrier signal. It could lead you to a point in your life where you no longer accept the reality you are living in as a real world, I don't even though that happened in 2005. Just my $0.02

Why was that burden gone? What did consciously change? Wouldn't it give your insight into what kept it alive before that dream?

I guess you have meditation practice that made the binaural beats that effective, but I can try the 42 Hz. I had limited success with inducing a 6 Hz half-aware dream state by applying the frequency to brown noise using a special program. I'm curious about what will happen if I continually listen to 42 Hz. What means did you use? How exactly did you create the sound that worked for you? I'm not sure whether my brown noise will not ruin the effect at such a high frequency.

I don't think all schools are real, well they are only schools in the same way life in general is in that they teach you from your mistakes, but I would imagine it is clear to most of the people here that in Taoism expecially there are all sorts of frauds and people only teaching minor fragments of a larger system. If you believe stories about "the ancients" they once had a far more complete knowledge of which acupuncture, qigong and energy work etc was just a part of it, but people now are treating that one fragment as a complete system in itself, but what if in some places the complete teaching remains which have complete teachings on the psyche, the energy body, astrology, healing, meditation, sacred architecture, divination, dream body, physical health, etc all together. All the different teachings can compliment each other for a complete education. A zen monk may say all that is unnecessary and all you have to do is sit, but it is clear that certain groups and societies through history had a more complete knowledge than we have now, for example the Egyptians who built the pyramids and Luxor temple had a high knowledge about many aspects of life which now may be lost, and people like Wang Liping had a fat more complete spiritual education than just sitting.

Death died like a deep dream one finally awakens from, replaced by freedom to "Fear not" and doubt not. Further, there is no dissoulution of the real, for niether "death" nor "life" can reach it, thus the real worries not of forms coming and going for worry is not of its nature.

Some schools have the beef, others don't. If you enjoy having a spiritual life and that's all you care about then it's fine to screw around with philosophies and practices that don't actually do anything, as long as you enjoy the ride that's all that matters. As for me I can't enjoy the ride. Every moment of every day death is with me. Every time I glance in the mirror, every time I take a breath, I am reminded of my own mortality, but more importantly that I am going to wind up in another dream like this one if I can't get out before I die, and I lose all my memories, identity, ego, and personality too so my odds of getting on a path to break out the next cycle are reduced to baseline. I want to become a being not bound by reincarnation. Anything else to me is a waste of time. That's just my take on the matter.

I determine what is sane and what is not. My ego is like water, it can take on the shape I want it to take. Tulku... After years of fighting the ego, I have realized that the ego is really nothing. Like a dream monster. You can fight it and make it grow worse. Or you can offer it a cup of tea and it will transform into a purring baby kitten before your very eyes. After such an experience, it feels pointless to fight your ego, because there is no ego. We are it, and we can be what we want to be. Its like fighting a reflection and then you become scared because the reflection fights back. Then you declare war and the reflection seems to do the same.

Sometimes what you want is better than what you have though. If you get all those material things or the dream job or the perfect mate. Well then what... Working folks blues, working hard to buy those things you want, but then you don't enjoy since you just work til you're exhausted to pay the bills.

I started seeing someone and she spent the night, she experienced the same things I did again, without me coaching her or telling her about my experience. I played it off like she had a bad dream but when she told me what she experienced it was the exact same thing I had. It seems to manifest only in the state in between waking and sleeping. Not sure what to make of a hallucination that affects more than one person. The night this happened there were tons of tornadoes in my area, an area that rarely gets tornadoes. Lots of local businesses were destroyed.

This is not the first time I have heard things like this. It has always baffled me what the heck it is about pork that blocks development of Chi or "resonating with Heaven" as a Taoist might put it. And Drew Hempell goes on and on about how salt blocks the working of the vagus nerve which is involved in trasmuting Chi to higher levels of Shen, etc. I really do find this stuff baffling. Heck...maybe Drew will check out this thread and explain what it is about Pork that so blocks this transmutation process. This really sucks cause I actually like the taste of pork and some populations really depend upon it. Germans for example eat a lot of pork and not nearly as much chicken as Americans do. I do try to eat more vegetables however but not for any particular spiritual benefits. It's mainly just because that's what research shows helps somewhat in avoiding 'poor dietary habit diseases' like diabetes, etc. It's a lot harder giving up grain though than I thought. Grain and grain byproducts are everywhere these days in all kinds of foods you'd never dream were in there. And people who live in the city don't have as many options as those in the suburbs for growing their own acres of veggies. As to the Dalai Lama eating meat. Yes, he does. As I understand it his physicians advised him to do so because when he became full vegetarian his health deteriorated and so upon their advice he started re-incorporating animal products into his diet again. Of course some vegetarian advocates scolded him after that. Paul McCartney being one of them I heard. Anyway...Dalai Lama *also* makes promises to lead the beings (including the ones he eats) to spiritual enlightenment. This is a kind of aid I suspect very, very few meat eaters ever promise to give but it's (admittedly my opinion) sort of the sentiment behind a lot of cultures giving thanks to the 'gods' or the 'animal spirits' for laying down their lives to feed them. Eating meat does not necessarily mean one vibrates at a lower level imo. The truest level is one's intent and willingness to go the distance to back up the aid offered to the animals one eats. Well...at least that's how I see it. But then...I don't know many people like me who go the distance and actually make offerings to Pretas many nights either like I do.* *Waits for someone to point and laugh at her ignorant literalistic interpretation.

Many say that the Complete Works of Lao Tzu incudes the Hua Hu Ching,...but probably not indoctrinated Westerners who believe they only have 5 senses, and that the sense organ of thought (the i think) is really who they are. Not really. You only believe you have 5 senses. If your brain accepted it was merely an impermanent sense organ, you would be at the threshold of understanding the Tao,...and the brain couldn't have that,...it rather drive your vehicle, and keep your higher consciousness in the truck (of a vehicle that really is just a dream). Lao Tzu said, "Intellectual knowledge exists in and of the brain. Because the brain is part of the body, which must one day expire, this collection of facts, however large and impressive, will expire as well" Hua Hu Ching, thirty-five.

Hmmm i think that those tablets are placebos. Placebos work. The reason they are expensive is so that you really feel that you have bought something very great and they have more effect. If they got tested by chemists and they found there to be no metals inside then there probably wasn't any metals in there to begin with. The guy who makes them gave the man some to give to other people, but he said you can only give them to people who specifically ask for these gold tablets, not just start handing them out. It's only cos people believe they really work and have heard about them, then they take them so they have more effect. In fact even a western sergery of removing something has a mental effect too. Those people who believe they are healed and will recover probably do. Those who are unsure probably less likely to recover. Just because a diseased part is removed doesn't mean the diseased mind won't continue to destroy the body. If you could cure the mind then the diseased body part could heal it's self. It's never to late, but the later the more difficult i believe. It's all in the mind. Practicing qigong is the best - it's free. Maybe more difficult and time consuming but it's good in the long run. You don't need anything to help you then, it's all on the inside. ...But it would be cool to be a shaman though.... i'd love to quit my job and just live in a hut in the jungle tripping on psychadellics all day, people paying me to give them some intense experience so that they get a flash of enlightenment. Ahhh i will try dream about it tonight

Lol, thats not exactly starting small. To understand carefully I am going to have to ask you lots of questions to make sure we are on the same page with the words we use... Stop using misdirection tactics. I have not made a 'swarm of allegations'. I have responded to your posts point by point with relevant questions and pointed out the layers of flawed thinking and dishonesty where necessary. Anyway back to a more Interesting discussion. So far we are on the same page here. What methods do you use that you have found to be particularly effective for transcending the 6 consciousness's? I am a fan of viewing everything as dream like appearance including the 6th... Although in some ways for me, it has a little more cognizance involved in it, especially at first, compared to resting naturally which is one of my favorite practices. When I am really In Natural presence, then the world appears as a fresh, empty, magical display with no Interpretation going on whatsoever, and an amazing sense of wonder and joy accompanies it... In that space I don't have to sit there thinking "the world is empty dreamlike appearance" Also could you speak to how you see Gnoledge as overlapping, effecting or informing the events/life in the sensory world? At least for the Gnower...? Groan! This is going to be hard... So many cultures have teachings around the soul/spirits division after death into two or more fragments. Could you describe exactly what you mean when you say Psyche, Soul, Spirit... Also when you talk about Thymos, what else is Implied other than the amazing gland itself Sure, but what reasons? Could you give me your personal experience of Heart Mind? It may make it easier for me to be sure about what you are referring too. Some people use this term in slightly different ways... That makes sense, but would you describe it further? And could you describe the magick perfections? How do you go about with this for instance? lol, you are sounding dangerously close to the Theistic mystics, so could you unpack what you mean by following Spirit? How does spirit 'direct' in order that you may 'follow'? This is not at all meant as a trick question or a trap, I really would like to hear how you explain this. I have some theories but I want to hear yours first Sure. The Heart is often considered the true deep center of the mind in old cultures, with conceptual thought being distortion or ripples on the surface of the water... Tell me more if you please. what 'is' this higher self? What is it like when you experience it? When is it present for you and when not, or what do you find clouds it for you? How have you learned to be certain in distinguishing its 'voice' from the others? What practices have helped you uncover it? Seth.

The dream was shocking, why would GB and the US go to war against each other? But there it was playing out in real time in the South China Sea of all places. As a warrior culture, the creme de la creme badge carries a lot of pride, prestige & loneliness at the top. Spetsnaz ( Brutal vicious violent deadly training) SAS ( Train to the death ) BOPE (Slayers of the Drug Lords) Faca na Cabaca Seal team 6 ( Ditka!) Israeli special forces (Under constant threat 24/7) The Swiss guard ( Vatican Commandos) GROM ( Oppression breeds Dominance) Gurkhas ( A way of life ) Mujahideen (kickin' Soviet and US ass for the last 33 years) French Foreign Legion ( Worldwide Badasses) North Korean Republican guard ( Raised from the cradle) So I put the ? out to the TTB elders... Who has the training of all training? Who would you want protecting your family? Forgive me if I forgot or failed to mention any team ( after all it was only a dream) Or was it?

So what's the one best book or program to learn to have OBE's? Like anything else - their is too much info. I'm thinking maybe it's some kind of binural beat Monroe type of program - that would give me the quickest results. Also I lucid dream once in a while. Should I go back to mastering that first? Can people really die during an OBE if they can't get back into their body?

There is an absolute consideration regarding flaws in things I write,...that is partially the motive for me writing them,...and also, to better the understand the flaws of your monkey beliefs. The Hua Hu Ching suggests, "the ego is a monkey catapulting through the jungle; totallay fascinated by the realm of the senses....if anyone threaten it, it actually fears for its life. Let this monkey go. Let the senses go." I've yet to see your "debate." I suggest that Mahasiddha's (most who were not Buddhists) work from Nine Magick Perfections. You say bunk,...because of your clinging to theistic beliefs. None of the Nine Magick Perfections are be fully understood through the 6 sense delusion of a god,...but you (Seth) insist that you can in fact bring your beliefs and conditions into the Unconditional, and by Seth's will, the Unconditional will remain Unconditional. Other than what you think, a real honest debate would include your reasoning of how your conditions, and those of theists you support, actually enter the Unconditionality of Heart Mind. You see, honesty in this case should be able to differentiate between magick as practiced through the Nine Magickal Perfections, and the magick of hollywood's media-ted cimena that reinforce cultural delusions. "Let this monkey go. Let the senses go." Lao Tzu purportedly said. However, you fight to retain supremacy of the 6 senses, and the monkey mind that imagines them. "All through the night in the cold the monkey squats scheming how to capture the moon." Or in this case, do ad homenim under the pretext of "debate." I never said that "you couldn't Gnow a thing if you tried." This is what you do,...take my statements out of context, make some other stuff up, and present your diatribe about how VMarco is grandiose. Let's be honest,...a Belief Monkey is a sentient being who clings to their 6 senses for their identity. While in nearly every post on TTB, I've stressed the need to go beyond belief, beyond god memes, beyond the 6 senses. And when I suggest inquiring beyond the 6 senses, Seth argues that's monkey belief. Seth says, Seth argues that what Socrates really meant to say is that "The unexamined life is the only life worth living." Or that Plato never said, "Truth pertains to the timeless reality that generates everything in our world." Your truth Seth is within time. That's how you hold your 6 sense reality together. Lao Tzu purportedly said, "there is nothing to teach, no religion, no science, no body of information which will lead your mind back to tao." While Buddha said, "Do not accept anything by mere tradition. . . Do not accept anything just because it accords with your scriptures. . . Do not accept anything merely because it agrees with your preconceived notions." Buddha taught irreligion. You (Seth) obviously need religion and a god. I suggest that such beliefs, all of which arise from the 6 senses, are obsticles that obscure Heart Mind. Buddha said, "Do not dwell in the past, do not dream of the future, concentrate the mind on the present moment." What post have I written on TTB that does not address that quote? Very, very few. No matter what the topic,...be it magick, Light, or oxymorons,...my posts point to the letting go of everything that steps between a sentient being and their direct experience with the Now. Not the perceived now of the monkey minded,...but the actual Now. I do not hate Christians, Muslims, Jews, or any sentient being as you infer through your fear of honesty. I am however, fully intolerant of Christianity or other god memes that step between sentient beings and their direct experience. "The constant assertion of belief is an indication of fear." J Krishnamurti Unlike you, I consistently assert the letting go of beliefs. "I regard monotheism as the greatest disaster ever to befall the human race. I see no good in Judaism, Christianity, or Islam." - Gore Vidal So, hate me for being clear-minded enough to recognize delusion. "Most men would kill the truth if truth would kill their [beliefs]." Lemuel K. Washburn So your posts are nothing new. You are admired by perhaps 95% of the population. "I could not in good conscience, vote for someone who honestly thinks that the other 95% of us (who believe in god) suffer from some sort of mass delusion." Palmer Joss (actor Matthew McConaughey) That's the nature of your sentient world. You have zero interest in honesty, as your posts show. Nor any real debate. Your monkey beliefs are true,...and anyone who advocates the lessening and letting go of beliefs is your enemy, and enemy of all monkey minds, as described by Lao Tzu. I believe no story, whether religiously or not. The story of Tilopa and the fish is an example of magick,...an example that if not realized to be true, in that it can occur, than Tilopa's Mahamudra, and Vajrayana Buddhism as a whole are disproved and invalid. For example: "It has often been said that anything may be proved from the Bible; but before anything can be admitted as proved by the Bible, the Bible itself must be proved to be true; for if the Bible be not true, or the truth of it be doubtful, it ceases to have authority and cannot be admitted as proof of anything." Thomas Paine Jesus CANNOT be known through the Heart, because lies and beliefs do not arise from the Heart. Jesus is only KNOWN, never GNOWN. Of course, it is your belief. And you assume, because you operate out the prison of the 6 senses, that my saying that Jesus CANNOT be gnown through the Heart must be a belief. http://www.thetaobum..._1entry309746 V