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he thought your were a strange looking big hummingbird. Animals are nice. Things we dream of that animals can understand us and we them. And they not fear if we are calm. There is also a wish to touch them. We humans have a strange relationship with other lifeforms.

Hi Christa. To continue from the Lobby post, you are the epitome of "The force is strong on this one." You are transfering your stronger energy to the people who you touch. It is not stopping when you take them with two hands, its just creating a larger circuit so you are less likely to to feel it because the energy has more area to pass through. (When you start healing people with the intent of healing them, and touching them, it may be nice to just use one one hand or fingertip so they do get a bit of a shock at first, so that they know its real, so their mind can be convinced, helping the healing all the more. But thats perhaps the future.) Note that if your energy is going to them, you are not hurting them, its natural that stronger, purer energy goes to the less strong. Their body will utilize your stronger energy and it will boost their immune system energy, and cure them of latent things and help them in other ways. So dont worry about giving them a shock. The other thing where you see your body is typical of OBE (outer body experience), or lucid dreaming type thing. Your mind creates a replication of your surroundings, and you think you are awake but really its a kind of semi-conscious dream, in Taoism we sometimes call a "yin body". You probably could find lots of testimonials of similar experiences on youtube. No biggy, its just a sign that you are evolving. But the energy shocking thing is a gift, and you can use it if you want. There's two basic types of bioenergy healing powers, the channelling energy type, and the using your own (lower dan-tien) energy. I'm guessing, though not sure, that you are the channelling type, similar to Reiki (hint:google Reiki) But since your ability is natural and so strong relative to others, you are going to have to figure alot out on your own, due to its uniqueness. But at the very least, look at books at bioenergy healing and other healers so you can get some basic vocabulary, and understand some of the similarities, as well as specific techniques, precautions. If you want to continue on PM, feel free.

1-15 i find thr translation suspet. Hrday is the sanskrit word for heart and drshya means vision and svapna means dream. Dasrhanam is to see. So the translation is more accurantely, by focusing the consciousness on fhe heart...so on.

Nice thread. It's good to see healthy discussion of something as basic and potentially misunderstood as breathing. Your experience parallels my own, Joe. I've been practicing for about 9 years. It's my opinion and practice that the diaphragm contracts during inhalation whether practicing normal or reverse abdominal breathing. During inhalation, the volume of the thoracic cavity increases, irrespective of the type of breathing. The difference is in what the abdominal cavity is doing. What reverse refers to is the action of the abdominal muscles (and pelvic muscles). In normal abdominal breathing, the abdominal and pelvic muscles facilitate the diaphragm's action by increasing the volume of the abdominal cavity which allows the diaphragm to work without much resistance. The chest expands, the abdomen expands, the pressure in the chest lowers, the pressure in the abdomen stays about the same (actually, it increases a little bit). In reverse abdominal breathing, the abdominal and pelvic muscles actually oppose the diaphragm's action by decreasing the volume of the abdominal cavity. This is the source of the compression (increased pressure in the abdominal cavity) that JB refers to. Perhaps this resistance does cause less downward movement of the diaphragm than in normal breathing, but it is still contracting and attempting to lower, actively. The chest expands, the abdomen contracts, and the intra-abdmonial pressure increases more than with NAB. The diaphragm can only do one of two things - contract (muscles fibers shorten, diaphragm actively lowers) or relax (muscle fibers lengthen, diaphragm passively raises). I guess what CD and dawei are implying is that the diagram passively raises as the intercostals actively contract. JB is correctly pointing out that this doesn't occur during reverse breathing as this is not breathing at all. If there is a relaxation (raising) of the primary motor of breathing while there is a contraction of the secondary system (intercostals), the net effect would be either no movement of air at all or possibly exhalation rather than inhalation. This makes no sense. So the diaphragm contracts (attempts to move down) during any inhalation, normal, reverse, or whatever else we could dream up. Although it's downward displacement would certainly be decreased by abdominal muscle contraction during RAB. My teacher is not one to use a lot of words. He teaches in a very old school fashion so much of this for me has developed over a long period of time as a result of internal experimentation, investigation, then correction and fine tuning by my teacher. Most of it is not made explicit in books and many teachers (and authors) misunderstand the process. JB correctly points out the importance of the accessory breathing apparatus which includes the ilio-psoas and don't forget the quadrates lumborum! There are some great anatomic and physiologic references to explore about the breathing apparatus - well worth the time of anyone serious about cultivation. Reverse breathing is a good way of working with guiding and circulating the Qi through creating a piston type feeling through the abdomen and lower dan tian. Once the energetic clarity has been refined, the same thing can be done using the Yi alone. The reverse breathing is a nice method to make and refine that connection between the physical and the energetic (between Jing, Qi, and Shen). But it's just a tool. It's not the endgame.

what you quoted is from Archaya Mahayogi Shridhar Rinpoche. Thusnmess did not write the article, but did comment on it in the comments section. The world is not illusory in the sense of being imagined, this is what he meant by "like an illusion but not an illusion". However I put it this way: the world is illusory but not delusional. The world is not a fabrication of your imagination, yet it is empty and yet appearing, like a dream, a mirage, a magician's trick. Delusion is in taking self and the world to be real. If you realize no self no dharmas then the world apprehended correctly, is itself nirvana.

That is what I always thought, people here always bang on about the world being an illusion but my understanding of it was it was like an illusion, like a dream, which can mean something fundamentally different. There are some Sutras which talk about the world being an illusion but you have to wonder what meaning may be lost in translation, especially if the translator isn't a particularly enlightened person.

My friend Simpo (who is of deep realizations) wrote today: Hi Aik TC, Thanks for the sharing. So far my (what a paradox) experience of no-self has been without emotional content.. Currently, a sizeable chunk of waking hours and at times sleeping times too are in no-self mode. No-self mode has a direct immediate awareness feeling. Without a sense of self, the aggregates are not 'connected' via a center self reference. This lack of self-reference allows the 'fuzziness/fogginess' of self to be cleared away. When there is a sense of self, there can be emotional investment in the content/thought. as well as sensations.. this results in a fogginess of consciousness.In self-mode, one is not aware that the experiences in one's life are actually mind's appearance/contents. This non-recognition causes the sucking into and following of thoughts as if there are real at that time of their arising. In no-self mode, awareness is aware of contents as thoughts...contents loses their semantics and solidity. This at times gives a certain feeling of freedom. It is as if there can be activities, but there is no-one there performing them. In the self-mode, one is invested in the story of one's life.. In no-self mode, this story/experiences are clearly seem as mind's contents and thoughts.... no entirely real, yet not entirely false too... dream-like. If I feel angry, i know that the thoughts/'mind story' of me and an object/person that is making me angry is being played out . Awareness have already being become foggy... And thus it is time to re-establish awareness. The problem... is that once the 'sucking into' is too strong ... any action that is being performed is out of desperation and is via a sense of self. Note.. the way that is being written here is as if awareness is something separate from mind's content. It is not. Awareness is not an object/thing. BTW... i just bought 'Vivid Awareness' a few days ago. A good book and am gaining certain insights from it.

"And dreams themselves are merely the dreams of dreams" Segismundo - Life is a Dream

Hi mile83, I suggest not taking things too literally. And i second the idea of reading as many translations of the Tao Te Ching, and other classics as possible. It is written that the dao begot one, one begot two, and so on. However, to my knowledge, daoists never really concern themselves with why. The best explanation i have receieved is that "why" just leads to an infinite regression of "because..." to which can be asked "why" again and again. So some people will tell you that the dao gave birth to one because the old version of reality had come to a close and joined the void again.. that is just one cosmological interpretation, of course nobody was there! Some will say it just did, and thats that, and thats the camp i personally fall into. Some might say that the dao begot one because the universe is full of space and time and something exploded to fill that spacetime.. to me thats based on physics, but some people (like Frijof Capra) have done a lot of bridge science and mysticism. There are probably myriad other answers, but i suggest taking them all with a grain of salt. The dao isn't a logical reasonable thing, it likely doesn't do what it does for reasons that logic can grasp or language can elucidate. Its like asking why something happens in a dream.. you can get freudian or jungian or interpret it according to gypsy witchcraft but in the end, things just happen spontaneously, sometimes simply because they happen. No other reason needed or given. Another thing to remember is that in all likelyhood, time as we experience it has no beginning or end in any absolute sense. Even if this universe experienced a big bang which was its origin, there may be reality beyond the bounds of that explosion, or the universe as it is known. As the buddhist doctrine goes, this arose from beginningless beginninglessness. One last thing to remember is that nobody who gives you an answer knows for sure, so take it all with a shaker of salt.

Hi SereneBlue, Seth Ananda did not assert a Self, and I did not accuse him of holding self view. The problem is that he is unable to discern what the party is talking about, or he is not fully clear about the different insights and problems that can surface in those phases of insights. He is for example, mistaking the "dissolving into nothingness" phase with the realization of anatta. The view of self, in all and any manners, leads to clinging. Doesn't matter what you view self as, or even if you do not have a clear view of what self is (like most ordinary persons) - nonetheless the view that I Am, I exist, is latent and affecting our perception every moment. Even if you take something like Pure Consciousness or Nothingness as identity, it is going to cause clinging. As I wrote: http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2011/07/view.html The View Posted by: An Eternal Now Just posted in The Tao Bums a week ago: I have just come to a new realisation of the implications of views in daily life. I could have misunderstood what goldisheavy meant but I think it has to do with the fields of meaning. I have realised how ideas, beliefs, notions, views pervade our life and causes attachment. I now see that every single attachment is an attachment to view, which, no matter what it is, comes to two basic clinging: the view 'there is' and the view 'there isn't'. I started by noticing how in the past I had a sense of self, body and awareness... That these all seem so real to me and I kept coming back to that subjective sense and this is no longer the case now: I don't even have a sense of a body nowadays. Then I realized that all these clingings are related to view. The view of There is.... Self, body, mind, awareness, world, whatever. Because of this clinging on to things as existent, they appear real to us and we cling to them. The only way to eradicate such clingings is to remove the root of clinging: the view of 'there is' and 'there isn't'. The realization of anatta removes the view of 'there is self', 'there is awareness' as an independent and permanent essence. Basically, any views about a subjective self is removed through the insight that "seeing is just the seen", the subject is always only its objective constituents. There is no more sense of self, body, awareness, or more precisely there is no clinging to a "there is" with regards to such labels. It is seen that these are entirely ungraspable processes. In short the clinging and constant referencing to an awareness, a self dissolves, due to the notion "there is" such things are being eradicated. The realization of dream-like reality removes the view of 'there are objects', the universe, the world of things... One realizes what heart sutra meant by no five skandhas. This is basically the same realization as anatta, except that it impacts the view "there is" and "there isn't" in terms of the objective pole, in contrast to the earlier insight that dissolves "there is" of a subjective self. What I have overlooked all these while is the implications of views and how the thicket of views cause all clingings and suffering and what underpins those thicket of views, and how realization affects and dissolves these views. ---------- Related stuff: A view is a fundamental belief one holds about reality. For example, "everything exists" (sarva asti) .... The root of both these mistaken positions is "is" and "is not" -- for example "I exist now, and I will continue to exist after death" or "I exist now but when I die I will cease to exist". ~ Loppon Namdrol At base, the main fetter of self-grasping is predicated upon naive reification of existence and non-existence. Dependent origination is what allows us to see into the non-arising nature of dependently originated phenomena, i.e. the self-nature of our aggregates. Thus, right view is the direct seeing, in meditative equipoise, of this this non-arising nature of all phenomena. As such, it is not a "view" in the sense that is something we hold as concept, it is rather a wisdom which "flows" into our post-equipoise and causes us to truly perceive the world in the following way in Nagarjuna's Bodhicittavivarana: "Form is similar to a foam, Feeling is like water bubbles, Ideation is equivalent with a mirage, Formations are similar with a banana tree, Consciousness is like an illusion." ... "In other words, right view is the beginning of the noble path. It is certainly the case that dependent origination is "correct view"; when one analyzes a bit deeper, one discovers that in the case "view" means being free from views. The teaching of dependent origination is what permits this freedom from views." ~ Loppon Namdrol Another related article from an Actualist practitioner: http://nickdowntherabbithole.blogspot.com/2011/07/conversations-breakthrough.html#more

well said, all of that. Thanks. i tend to think that the more someone uses quotes to make their point, the less thought they themselves have put into said point. Quoting someone sagely is easy, becoming sagely oneself... welll... And while the cone in front of you may in fact be just a standing waveform masquerading as a solid chunk of matter, indistinguishable from a thought-form in a dream, mistaking it for something else is foolish, and mistaking it for not being there is pointless. I like my buddhism pragmatic, not escapist.

Modern Interpretation Yan Hui asked Zhongni(Confucius): "This guy Meng Sun Chai, his mother died, cried without a drop of tear; shows no grief in his heart, he was not sad at the funeral neither. In this three areas, he did not express any sorrow, but he was good at the funeral arrangements and well-known throughout the State of Lu. Perhaps that there was a situation with no such fact but only his name was being fictitious...??? Yan Hui really felt that was strange. Confucius said: "Meng Sun Chai's method in handling the funeral arrangements was really perfect, it was way exceeded those who know how the make the funeral arrangements. People always hoped to arrange a funeral in a simple manner but they cannot have it accomplished but Meng Sun Chai can. Meng Sun Chai won't ask people what they are living for; also he'd never bothered to find out what people die for. He doesn't know how to run toward life, and also he doesn't know how to approach death. He follows the natural process of change then changed into something which what he suppose to be. Then, he waits for those unexpected changes to appear. Even tough there was a change apparently, then, how do I know it was not changing...??? Although there was no change, then, how do I that the change had been taken place already...!!! However, only you and I are those who were dreaming without knowing the state of awaken. Those who were dead had their bodies ruined but their souls were not damaged. It seems like that the dwell place of the soul was changing but the soul was not really dead. Only Meng Sun Chai was awaken, when people cry, then he cries with them too, that was the reason why he guard the tombs for his ancestors. Although during a conversation, I borrowed my physical body and address myself as 'I', then how do I know that the body I am addressing was really mine...??? Furthermore, in your dreams, you had turned into a bird and spreading the wings soared into the blue skies. In addition, in another dream, you had turned into a fish and submerged deep into the water. I don't know in our conversation today, it was spoken by somebody who was awake or by somebody who was dreaming. I has this blissful feeling within my heart but the sound of my laughter hesitated to come out. To show my joyfulness with the laughter but not quick enough for my disposal and drainage. Peacefully, I followed the natural movements and had forgotten the change about death. Hence, I have entered the tranquil and vacuous naturalness to become integrated completely as one.

Taoist Tales and Parables: Wandering on the Way Victor Mair Yen Hui inquired of Confucius, saying, "When Mengsun Ts'ai's mother died, he cried without tears, his heart felt no distress, and during the period of mourning he felt no sorrow. Although lacking these three qualities, he was held to be the best mourner in the state of Lu. Can one really attain a name without the substance? I find this to be very strange." "The clansman Mengsun was so thorough," said Confucius, "that he had advanced beyond knowledge. Although he may have wished to simplify mourning, but wasn't able to do so fully, still there is that which he did simplify. Mengsun didn't know why he lived and didn't know why he would die. He didn't know which came first, life or death, and which came last. You see, he just went along with the transformation of things, awaiting the unknown transformation that was in store for him . Moreover, as we are about to undergo transformation, how do we know that we aren't already transformed? As we are about to cease transfor- mation, how do we know that we have already transformed? Perhaps you and I are in a dream from which we have not yet awakened. He, however, had a vulnerable physical body but no damage to his mind, a patched-together lodge but no expendi- ture of his essence. Mengsun was singularly awakened. When others cried, he cried too. That's why he behaved himself as he did. "Moreover, people identify each other as 'I,' but how do we know that what we call 'I' may not really be 'I'? You may dream that you are a bird and streak across the sky, that you are a fish and descend to the depths. We cannot determine whether we who are speaking now are awake or dreaming. We may be so suddenly delighted that we don't have a chance to smile; we may break into a smile before we have a chance to arrange ourselves. Repose in what has been arranged for you and leave transforma- tion behind, then you will be able to enter the unity of vast heaven.

Yan Hui asked Zhongni, saying, 'When the mother of Meng-sun Cai died, in all his wailing for her he did not shed a tear; in the core of his heart he felt no distress; during all the mourning rites, he exhibited no sorrow. Without these three things, he (was considered to have) discharged his mourning well; is it that in the state of Lu one who has not the reality may yet get the reputation of having it? I think the matter very strange.' Zhongni said, 'That Meng-sun carried out (his views) to the utmost. He was advanced in knowledge; but (in this case) it was not possible for him to appear to be negligent (in his ceremonial observances)', but he succeeded in being really so to himself. Meng-sun does not know either what purposes life serves, or what death serves; he does not know which should be first sought, and which last. If he is to be transformed into something else, he will simply await the transformation which he does not yet know. This is all he does. And moreover, when one is about to undergo his change, how does he know that it has not taken place? And when he is not about to undergo his change, how does he know that it has taken place? Take the case of me and you: are we in a dream from which we have not begun to awake? Moreover, Meng-sun presented in his body the appearance of being agitated, but in his mind he was conscious of no loss. The death was to him like the issuing from one's dwelling at dawn, and no (more terrible) reality. He was more awake than others were. When they wailed, he also wailed, having in himself the reason why he did so. And we all have our individuality which makes us what we are as compared together; but how do we know that we determine in any case correctly that individuality? Moreover you dream that you are a bird, and seem to be soaring to the sky; or that you are a fish, and seem to be diving in the deep. But you do not know whether we that are now speaking are awake or in a dream. It is not the meeting with what is pleasurable that produces the smile; it is not the smile suddenly produced that produces the arrangement (of the person). When one rests in what has been arranged, and puts away all thought of the transformation, he is in unity with the mysterious Heaven.'

The second part of Chapter 6 was compared with all the stars in describing a "natural person" gradually rendering into 'Tao'. Only a 'natural person" can sense 'Tao', and 'Tao' is "natural(wu wei) and formless" but also in eternally existed. In order to sense and observe 'Tao', it must be 'formless' and 'selfless'. These two paragraphs are the main theme of the text. There must be a "natural person", in order, to have true knowledge. What was considered to be a "natural person"...??? The "natural person" in the ancient, does not depend on the people nor lean on an individual; does not vaingloriously to glorify his own success by dwelling on top of others; also, does not plan on small things. For this kind of person, one will not regret if an opportunity was passed by; and he will not be smug if caught up with a fortune. For this kind of person, he will not tremble even he climbed in high places; he doesn't get wet when he's in the water; he doesn't feel the heat when entered into the fire. Those who can be like so are only those who have wisdom and able go through the passage of the Great Tao. A 'natural person' in the ancient, does not dream asleep, there was no worry when he has awaken; he does not ask for good taste when he eats food; his breath was deep when he breathes. A "natural person" depends the heel of the foot when he breathes, but the ordinary people were depending on the throat. When subdued by others, his speech were become stuttered. Those who were extravagant and with high hopes; their innate wisdom are very shallow. A "natural person" in the ancient, does not know how to praise life nor how to censure death; not happy when was born; also not decline when entering death; left with carefree; come as one pleases. Not forgetting where one came from; also not willing to find out where one came from; accepting any situations with joyfulness; forgetting about life and death as if one was returned to the initial natural state. Thus this is called not using the one's wisdom within the heart to ruin the Great Tao; also it was not using any resultant factor from the human action to assist 'naturalness'. This is called the "natural person". Like this kind of person, within the heart, one forgets all what was around oneself. One's face was calm and peaceful, his face was innocent and serious; it's cold like the winter, it's warm like the spring. The joyfulness or indignation without any warning seems like the four changing seasons. There was nothing which is comparable with any external matter and no one can explore the true meaning of the spiritual world. Hence, the ancient sages used force to destroy a hostile state without loosing the heart of those people; given benefit and grace throughout the times, but not given nepotism to anyone. One who was in favor of obtaining materialistic leisure is not a sage; one having nepotism in mind was not considered to be 'benevolent'; one who waits for the moment of opportunity to go into action is not virtuous; one who cannot see a conflict of interests may not be considered as a gentleman; one who handles affairs for fame and lost the inherent quality of oneself is not a scholar; one who sacrifice his life which doesn't match his own character is not the one that can be a servant to the people. An ancient "natural person", one's body expression was towering but not restrainted; it seems insufficient but, yet, not to inherit; one's attitude was clam and natural, standing above all but not persistent nor stubborn, one's mind was opened, broad, vacuous but not ostentatious; happy and cheerful seems like extra joyful, each move seems like it was done unwillingly. One's facial expression was friendly causing people to approach him willingly, associated with people virtuously and toleration and let people to felt like to be depended on; one's bearing was broad like the whole wide world. One who was bold and inhibited and had never been restricted by anything, broad vision and recondite seems like liking to enclosed oneself, inattentive seems like one has forgotten what to say. One treated the criminal law as the fundamental principle, and the ritual as one's assistance, using all the knowledge in hand to wait for the moment of opportune, using the virtue of Tao to comply with the natural principles. It seems like saying that the people with legs are able to climb the hills, then they thought that they are the one who was diligent in walking. Therefore, people said that what they were fond of are completely as one, people were not fond of is also completely as one. Those things that were the same are integrated, those things that were not the same are also integrated. Those things that were integrated are in the same category with 'naturalness'. Those things that were not integrated are in the same category with humans. Naturalness and humans are not possible to be opposite with each other but mutually transcended, those who were possessed with this kind of knowledge are considered to be a "natural person".

So,...you're saying that you, and those you imagined, existed in your dream last night? No,...he who pretends the world exists (vi. to stand alone; have actual being)is ignorant, according to Buddha. In today's broadening quantum culture, only the uneducated would dare argue that the world exists. However, regardless of quantum cosmology and irrefutuable proof that, as Max Planck said a hundred years ago, "As a man who has devoted his whole life to the most clear headed science, to the study of matter, I can tell you as a result of my research about atoms this much: There is no matter as such." ,...through my own direct experience, there is no world in the Present,...it (the world) is only a perception of the past,...and the past, to me, does not exist. "Existence really is an imperfect tense that never becomes a present." Friedrich Nietzsche As for post #44 the full quote was:

No,...you may have accepted some definition for enlightenment,...to me it's self explanitory,...enlightenment is having a direct understanding, as in being onto- or en- Light. Light is absolutely still. Just increase your speed to 186k mps and you will be like Buddha,...perfectly still,...neither coming or going,...eternal. Of course, to those as yourself, those who limit themselves to the first two Turnings only, Buddha said, "Those who cannot accept that the Tathāgata is eternal, cause misery." (Mahaparinirvana Sutra). Vajrayana uses all Four Turnings of the Wheel of Dharma,...not just the first Turning which introduced a path to end suffering, or the Second, on Emptiness. Vajrayana is a Short Path, whose Bee's collect honey from all applicable sources, so to realize Light in a single lifetime. The Buddha told Ananda, "You still listen to the Dharma with the conditioned mind, and so the Dharma becomes conditioned as well, and you do not obtain the Dharma-nature." "There is no Present in time" is an absolute bodhicitta aphorism,...meaning that, it cultivates right mindfulness. In the Lojong, the most important absolute bodhiciita aphorism is "treat everything you see as a dream." This duality of electrodynamic light is literally a dream. The so-called moving light in this dream is no more real than the light in your dream last night,...or the images on a theaters screen. Just like in a dream, if someone slaps you, you feel it. Can we get out of this dream? The Buddha instructed that the Six Senses is a barrier to get out, and when you are out, you (not the you that you think you are) are perfectly still. Like Light, the Tathagata has not moved a single centimeter in all eternity. How do we merge with Light? We move 186k mps, shedding all time, mass, and energy, and enter perfectly still Light. Of course, like the Buddha, that doesn't mean we have to disgard our dense dream body. We just don't take that condition into the Unconditionality of Undivided Light. This isn't about knowledge,...but gnowledge. Those who know, do not gnow. The relative is grounded in the intellect, in knowledge. Knowledge proceeds through what Buddha called the five skandhas or Aggregates, which includes sensual perceptions and conditioned experience by way of the psyche or personal consciousness. To know is to comprehend noologically, through intellect-based thought, the 6th sense. Gnowledge is to understand through metasensory awareness and unconditioned experience through the thymos or impersonal consciousness. To gnow is to understand by way of gnosis, the contection with Heart Mind. One can recognize the difference through change,...KNOWLEDGE changes,...GNOWLEDGE does not change. Knowledge is ALWAYS in the past,...whereas Gnowledge is ALWAYS in the Present. V

The second part of Chapter 6 was compared with all the stars in describing a "natural person" gradually rendering into 'Tao'. Only a 'natural person" can sense 'Tao', and 'Tao' is "natural(wu wei) and formless" but also in eternally existed. In order to sense and observe 'Tao', it must be 'formless' and 'selfless'. These two paragraphs are the main theme of the text. There must be a "natural person", in order, to have true knowledge. What was considered to be a "natural person"...??? The "natural person" in the ancient, does not depend on the people nor lean on an individual; does not vaingloriously to glorify his own success by dwelling on top of others; also, does not plan on small things. For this kind of person, one will not regret if an opportunity was passed by; and he will not be smug if caught up with a fortune. For this kind of person, he will not tremble even he climbed in high places; he doesn't get wet when he's in the water; he doesn't feel the heat when entered into the fire. Those who can be like so are only those who have wisdom and able go through the passage of the Great Tao. A 'natural person' in the ancient, does not dream asleep, there was no worry when he has awaken; he does not ask for good taste when he eats food; his breath was deep when he breathes. A "natural person" depends the heel of the foot when he breathes, but the ordinary people were depending on the throat. When subdued by others, his speech were become stuttered. Those who were extravagant and with high hopes; their innate wisdom are very shallow. A "natural person" in the ancient, does not know how to praise life nor how to censure death; not happy when was born; also not decline when entering death; left with carefree; come as one pleases. Not forgetting where one came from; also not willing to find out where one came from; accepting any situations with joyfulness; forgetting about life and death as if one was returned to the initial natural state. Thus this is called not using the one's wisdom within the heart to ruin the Great Tao; also it was not using any resultant factor from the human action to assist 'naturalness'. This is called the "natural person". Like this kind of person, within the heart, one forgets all what was around oneself. One's face was calm and peaceful, his face was innocent and serious; it's cold like the winter, it's warm like the spring. The joyfulness or indignation without any warning seems like the four changing seasons. There was nothing which is comparable with any external matter and no one can explore the true meaning of the spiritual world. Edited to add: Hence, the ancient sages used force to destroy a hostile state without loosing the heart of those people; given benefit and grace throughout the times, but not given nepotism to anyone. One who was in favor of obtaining materialistic leisure is not a sage; one having nepotism in mind was not considered to be 'benevolent'; one who waits for the moment of opportunity to go into action is not virtuous; one who cannot see a conflict of interests may not be considered as a gentleman; one who handles affairs for fame and lost the inherent quality of oneself is not a scholar; one who sacrifice his life which doesn't match his own character is not the one that can be a servant to the people.

If I said I was enlightened, what would that mean? I say enlightened and you grasp an idea, a definition from what you've learned about it, attach it to the idea, and thus decide whether or not I am or am not, based on what you've learned. Be done with knowledge. So long as you search for enlightenment you will never find it. These answers you seek, the definitions you set down are not answers at all, there are no answers, just experience. Is there a now? Is there not a now? It doesn't matter. You seek something that can't be sought, because you have not lost it in the first place, you just don't see it, even though it is right there. Ahh... salvation, nirvana, buddhahood, these are all illusory, they do not exist, because there is nothing to save or transcend. You simply are and so long as you are not satisfied with being what you are, then you will seek to be something else and everyone who offers you something to help you alleviate what you believe is the disease of being, you will run after them seeking it, just like a miner who hears of gold. And perhaps when you find it, if you follow the path to the end and hold it, or not hold it, as the case may be, you may also find satisfaction, or find what you were searching for, but in the end that is illusory as well. You find the answer, but the world does not disappear. You ate, shat, and slept before, you will eat, shit, and sleep afterwards. Oh but now I see the dream, well the fact is you were never dreaming, rather you were simply living, and now that you see things differently, are you no longer living? There is no salvation or cessation from being the "you" you have become in this life. If you think the answer lies in "now" then you are misleading yourself. The problem with so many people on this board, and you included, is that you feel you must be teachers, but the fact is so long as you seek to be a teacher, you are never a teacher. We can only be students. Philosophy is for foolish people. It gives no answers, because the answers are temporal and transient, the only thing that will satisfy your curiosity is experience. When I say give up your beliefs, I am telling you that your beliefs are keeping you from experiencing the actuality of what we are. Go back and examine each and every idea that makes up "you" and tell me what you are. You can't do it, because the you that existed before you became you has no definition, it is an experience. Yet when you experience you before you became you, then you can begin to experience life and see everything that came afterwards with clarity and you will have no questions, because there will be no need for answers. Also, what's with all the name calling and finger pointing. If you want me to be a Christian, I'll kindly be a Christian, there's really no way for me not to be, because Aaron to you is a Christian, but what I would point out is that there are no Christians, Buddhists, Muslims, or Jews, there are just people being defined by those so attached to the temporal, that they can't see them for what they really are. If you stopped defending yourself and trying to misdirect conversations when people start punching holes in your philosophy, perhaps you could begin to see that there is no such thing as truth or untruth, or now or past, there simply is what is. You're so fond of exercises it seems, so I would offer you one that might help, examine yourself and your children and tell me where you begin and your children end. Aaron

--- Work in Progress Alert --- 2. 第二部分至“而比于列星”，从描写“真人”逐步转为述说“道”，只有“真人”才能体察“道”，而“道”是“无为无形”而又永存的，因而体察“道”就必须“无人”、“无我”。这两段是全文论述的主体。 The second part of Chapter 6 was compared with all the stars in describing a "natural person" gradually rendering into 'Tao'. Only a 'natural person" can sense 'Tao', and 'Tao' is "natural(wu wei) and formless" but also in eternally existed. In order to sense and observe 'Tao', it must be 'formless' and 'selfless'. These two paragraphs are the main theme of the text. 况且有了“真人”方才有真知。什么叫做“真人”呢？古时候的“真人”，不倚众凌寡，不自恃成功雄踞他人，也不图谋琐事。像这样的人，错过了时机不后悔，赶上了机遇不得意。象这样的人，登上高处不颤慄，下到水里不会沾湿，进入火中不觉灼热。这只有智慧能通达大道境界的人方才能像这样。 There must be a "natural person", in order, to have real knowledge. What was considered to be a "natural person"...??? The "natural person" in the ancient, does not depend on the people nor lean on an individual; does not vainglorious his success by dwelling on top of others; also, does not plan on small things. For this kind of person, one will not regret if an opportunity was missed; and he will not be dogmatic if caught up with a fortune. For this kind of person, he will not tremble even he climbed in high places; he doesn't get wet when he's in the water; he doesn't feel the heat when entered into the fire. Those who can be like so are only the those who has wisdom and able go through the passage of the Great Tao. 古时候的“真人”，他睡觉时不做梦，他醒来时不忧愁，他吃东西时不求甘美，他呼吸时气息深沉。 A 'natural person' in the ancient, does not dream asleep, there was no worry when he has awaken; he does not ask for good taste when he eats food; his breath was deep when he breathes. “真人”呼吸凭借的是着地的脚根，而一般人呼吸则靠的只是喉咙。被人屈服时，言语在喉前吞吐就像哇哇地曼语。那些嗜好和欲望太深的人，他们天生的智慧也就很浅。 A "natural person" depends the heel of the foot when he breathes, but the ordinary people were depending on the throat. When subdued by others, his speech were become stuttered. Those who were extravagant and with high hopes; their innate wisdom are very shallow. 古时候的“真人”，不懂得喜悦生存，也不懂得厌恶死亡；出生不欣喜，入死不推辞；无拘无束地就走了，自由自在地又来了罢了。不忘记自己从哪儿来，也不寻求自己往哪儿去，承受什么际遇都欢欢喜喜，忘掉死生像是回到了自己的本然，这就叫做不用心智去损害大道，也不用人为的因素去帮助自然。 A "natural person" in the ancient, does not know how to praise life nor how to censure death; not happy when was born; also not decline when entering death; left with carefree; come as one pleases. Not forgetting where one came from; also not willing to find out where one came from; accepting any situations with joyfulness; forgetting about life and death as if one was returned to the initial natural state. Thus this is called not using the one's wisdom from the heart to ruin the Great Tao; also it was using and factor from human action to assist 'naturalness'. 这就叫“真人”。像这样的人，他的内心忘掉了周围的一切，他的容颜淡漠安闲，他的面额质朴端严；冷肃得像秋天，温暖得像春天，高兴或愤怒跟四时更替一样自然无饰，和外界事物合宜相称而没有谁能探测到他精神世界的真谛。 This is called the "natural person". Like this kind of person, within the heart, one forgets all what were around oneself. One's face was calm and peaceful, His face was innocent and serious; it's cold like the winter, it's warm like the spring. The joyfulness or indignation without any expression seem like the four changing seasons. There was nothing which is comparable with the external matter and no one can explore the true meaning of the spiritual world. Edited to add: Hence, the ancient sages used force to destroy a hostile state without loosing the heart of those people; given benefit and grace throughout the times, but not given nepotism to anyone. One who was in favor of obtaining materialistic leisure is not a sage; one having nepotism in mind was not considered to be 'benevolent'; one who waits for the moment of opportunity to go into action is not virtuous; one who cannot see a conflict of interests may not be considered as a gentleman; one who handles affairs for fame and lost the inherent quality of oneself is not a scholar; one who sacrifice his life which doesn't match his own character is not the one that can be a servant to the people. Note: The phrases in bold are not translated due to the fact that they are too esoteric and philosophical beyond comprehension. The ancient "natural person", one's body expression was towering but not restrainted; it seems insufficient but, yet, not to inherit; one's attitude was clam and natural, standing above all but not persistent nor stubborn, one's mind was opened, broad, vacuous but not ostentatious; happy and cheerful seems like extra joyful, each move seems like it was done unwillingly. One's facial expression was friendly causing people to approach him willingly, associated with people virtuously and toleration and let people to felt like to be depended on; one's bearing was broad like the whole wide world. One was bold and inhibited and had never been restricted by anything, broad vision and recondite seems like liking to enclosed oneself, inattentive seems like one has forgotten what to say. One treated the criminal law as the fundamental principle, and the ritual as one's assistance, using all the knowledge in hand to wait for the moment of opportune, using the virtue of Tao to comply with the natural principles. It seems like saying that the people with legs are able to climb the hills, then they thought that they are the one who was diligent in walking. Therefore, people said that what they were fond of are completely as one, people were not fond of is also completely as one. Those things that were the same are integrated, those things that were not the same are also integrated. Those things that were integrated are in the same category with 'naturalness'. Those things that were not integrated are in the same category with humans. Naturalness and humans are not possible to be opposite with each other but mutually transcended, those who were possessed with this kind of knowledge were considered to be a "natural person".

You are of course, right... right view is in fact no view. However, 'view' is something that is latent in us... so much so that it is actually subconsciously affecting our perception of the unawakened life in every moment, shaping our perception into 'observer' and 'observed', inside and outside... if you hear a sound, or see a sight, don't you feel that they are 'outside' and you are 'in here'? Even if you do not make a gross concept about what you are... nonetheless the view and construct of a self, a subject and an object, an inside and an outside, is something very obvious to you... it may seem as truly real but actually it is just the view and construct hypnotizing you like a dream like a magical spell... it seems real, but actually isn't. Self-view is present in ALL beings who are still unawakened... and in Buddhism it is taught that it is precisely this ignorance, this view of self, that leads to the attachment of 'I', 'me', 'mine', that drives the entire craving, clinging, karma-making, rebirth-making process of samsara... that which leads to all suffering. Agnostics are not spared... eternalist and nihilist are likewise not spared. No one is spared... except the awakened, liberated ones, freed from ignorance, freed from views, clinging, craving, karma-producing, samsara-producing, suffering-making processess. The way to liberation is the understanding of Right View... up to Right Mindfulness and Right Concentration, as per described in the Noble Eightfold Path.

I did not dream last night because I am at peace with my Self. And I woke with no worries. I later pulled weeds from one of my gardens. And my life continues very contentedly without any guidance from Vmarco. Just like majic!

i found this article really interesting!! Ken Johnson's blog can be found here http://www.jaguarwisdom.org/blog/ and the article can be found here (although i quote it almost in its entirety) http://www.jaguarwisdom.org/blog/2009/09/26/the-art-of-dreaming-in-highland-guatemala/. Imix means "dragon" or "crocodile". Cimi means "death". There are 20 such signs in the 260 day calendar that Johnson refers to. You can find your birthday, and what today is, on http://www.mayanmajix.com/TZOLKIN/DT/DT.html _______________________________________________________________________________ According to the Maya, each human being is born with two souls. One of them is known as the uxlab. The Spanish word anima is often used to describe this aspect of soul, since it is identical to what Catholic Christians perceive as the soul. It is invested in the body and in breathing. It remains within the body until the moment of our death. The second aspect of the soul is quite different. In the K’iche’ language, it is called uwach uk’ij, which literally means “the face of his or her day.” In other words, this is the energy template or imprint of the Sacred Calendar day upon which we are born. My uwach uk’ij is Imix; I have an Imix soul because I was born upon that day, and I share a common bond with all others born upon Imix. My best friend was born upon Cimi; she has a Cimi soul and is bonded in soul with all those who share the same uwach uk’ij. Sometimes the Maya use the word nawal to describe this aspect of the soul. The word is borrowed from the Nahuatl word nagual, and it means exactly the same thing. Our day-sign soul is our nagual, our spiritual essence, our archetypal imprint. And this is the soul which dreams. The anima may be vested within the human body, but the nagual is not. It can roam freely through the astral world while we are asleep. Though the “face of one’s day” may be described as a nagual, there are subtle distinctions between the nagual and the uwach uk’ij. While all living things possess a nagual or spiritual essence, only human beings possess the uwach uk’ij or day-sign soul. Though Westerners may ask an astrologer to cast a horoscope for their dog, the Maya would never do so. A dog may have a nagual, but it doesn’t have a day-sign soul. The day-sign soul is one of the things which distinguish human beings from other beings. As we shall see, there is also a third type of soul – one which is innate within some people, but not all. One who is not born with it may cultivate it through shamanic training. When we sleep, our nagual goes wandering. In its travels, it may meet and interact with the wandering naguales of others, whether humans, animals, plants or even minerals. From such interactions are our dreams fashioned and created. Though all dreams contain important messages, those which arise from the ordinary nocturnal activities of the nagual are regarded as “ordinary dreams.” It is said that those which occur in the pre-dawn hours, just before waking, are the most important. Dreams are an important topic of discussion in traditional Mayan communities. Dreams are meant to be shared with others. Unlike some traditional societies, the Maya have no fear of dreams, even though they do regard dreams as omens. One ought to give thanks even for one’s worst nightmares, for these constitute warning signals, alerting us to the fact that we need to take action and change something in our lives which is not serving our purpose. The importance of dreams is demonstrated by the way in which the Maya discuss them. They use a special terminology and syntax which is also used when telling stories or reciting ancient myths, but which is not characteristic of daily speech. In other words, even “ordinary dreams” are myths, and they are described with mythic speech. While “ordinary dreams” have importance, they are not as significant as shamanic or archetypal dreams. These constitute an entirely different category of dreaming, and one which is not necessarily experienced by everyone. There is a third aspect of soul, usually known as coyopa. In common speech, coyopa refers to “sheet lightning” of the type which flickers above mountains and lakes. But this phenomenon of the natural world has its correspondence within the human body; coyopa can also mean “the body lightning” or “the lightning in the blood.” Spiritual seekers who have spent time among the Maya have drawn attention to the close correspondence between the Mayan concept of coyopa and the Sanskrit kundalini. Both are connected with serpent imagery. Yogic texts describe the kundalini as the “serpent power.” Bolts of lightning are regarded by the Maya as “sky serpents.” Some people are born with the coyopa or lightning soul fully activated; other people either develop it or have it awakened through powerful spiritual experiences. Some people never experience it at all. But those whose coyopa is awakened dream differently than other people. Here again, the Sacred Calendar is of importance. Half of the day-signs contain “natural” coyopa; those born upon such days are born with the “body lightning” already awakened, and thus have a greater capacity to experience archetypal dreams. These day-signs are: Akbal, Chicchan, Cimi, Manik, Lamat, Eb, Ben, Ix, Men and Caban. Other people may experience an awakening of the coyopa due to unusual spiritual experiences or because of formal shamanic training. If the coyopa is awake, the gods themselves may contact us directly through our dreams, using the coyopa energy as a communicative medium between their world and ours. The gods may give us messages – or at least, they try to. The Maya believe that dreams are tricky things, always trying to outwit us by making such messages difficult to remember or decipher. Many people, in our own Western society, have reported dreams wherein a “wise old man” or “wise old woman” appears to us and gives us a powerful message. In most cases, the actual words of that message are lost to us, unremembered. The Maya believe that this is part and parcel of the Art of Dreaming. We must learn to dream with clarity and lucidity, so that the messages imparted to us by the gods will remain in our memory and be accessible to our conscious minds after we awake. To take action against the dream’s inherent longing for forgetfulness is a struggle. An archetypal dreamer is a spiritual warrior. In order to learn how to remember our archetypal dreams and therefore make use of them, the guidance of a shamanic teacher is often necessary. Anyone who undertakes the path of becoming a Mayan priestess or priest will of course have such a teacher, a “road guide.” Part of the training for such a sacred office consists of the awakening of the coyopa or lightning soul. Therefore the shamanic teacher or road guide is also an expert dream interpreter, one who can guide the student in learning how to access the archetypal dreams in which the gods speak to us through the awakened body lightning. The road guide uses dreams as an important tool in the training of Calendar diviners and Mayan priests. It is interesting to note that Mayan dream interpretation is highly individuated. Mayan shamans do not interpret according to a set list of symbols of the type which might be found in any “gypsy witch dream book” here in the United States. Dream symbolism is, by and large, unique to the individual dreamer and her or his outlook on life. There are a few commonly accepted symbols, however. For example, a Mayan priest’s vara or “sacred bundle” which contains her or his divining seeds, crystals, and other ritual objects is regarded as the initiate’s “spiritual spouse.” Therefore, if a mysterious man appears in a woman’s dream, or a mysterious woman in a man’s dream, it is usually said that the shaman-in-training has been visited by her or his “spiritual spouse,” the spirit of the sacred bundle which will someday become the shaman’s true and eternal partner. Those familiar with Jungian dream analysis will not fail to note the similarities between this Mayan concept and the Jungian doctrine of anima and animus. If a dream remains “incomplete,” in the sense that the words of the god are not remembered by the dreamer, or the recollection of the dream seems tentative and without a clear message, the road guide may ask the apprentice shaman to re-create the dream by entering back into it and finishing it. This is, of course, a technique closely related to what we might call “lucid dreaming,” in the sense that the dreamer is an active participant rather than a passive one. Here again, the Sacred Calendar is of great importance. Let us say that such an “incomplete” archetypal dream or divine communication took place on 4 Chuen. The next recurrence of a Chuen day will take place twenty days later; this will be 11 Chuen. During those twenty days, the novice shaman may meditate upon the dream and its meaning in preparation to attempting to re-enter the dream and bring it to a conclusion. The attempt to re-enter the dream will take place on 11 Chuen. It is clear, from the above, that archetypal dreams may be sought out. To use the Western term, they may be “incubated.” While Mayan dream incubation is not as complex or ritualistic as the classical dream incubation once practiced in the Greek temples of Asklepios, there are techniques for inducing archetypal dreams. I shall conclude with one of them. Drink a glass of warm water mixed with a tablespoon of lemon juice. Do this about an hour after dinner in order to give yourself time to digest first, as well as giving yourself time to make a few trips to the bathroom before retiring. While falling asleep, practice deep and regular breathing. Clear your mind of all thoughts and worries relating to the day just past, the day ahead, or mundane life in general. Instead, imagine the wings of a bird, moving slowly and rhythmically, the wings of the nagual carrying you into the dream world. Let the serene motion of the nagual’s flight guide you to the magic of an archetypal dream.

WOW...so some pretty gnarly stuff happened last night XD, it scared the shit out of me . I had gotten up to take a leak, went back to bed. I fell asleep and started dreaming, not a lot of the dream passed when suddenly my eyes were opened. It was weird cause I was sleeping and the transition went to some crazy shit that was going on in my room. It sounded like I was falling through the sky at like 2,000miles an hour XD crazy buzzing my whole body vibrating. I could see some pretty weird things in my room so I immediatly closed my eyes. So right now I'm scared for my life haha my body is like paralyzed can't move or even speak for that matter. I try to shout but it's impossible. I hear a lady saying something and it felt as if I was falling or moving upwards. There was also like a sinking sensation. My first reaction, without doing anything was to chant om mani padme hum. It happened naturally. As I just started the mantra I felt relief and ease and it was as if my body was lowered and "let go". I dunno if it was just good timing, like I was exiting whatever the heck was happening. My theory is that's usually what happens when we go asleep but I somehow didn't do the process fully, I awoke halfway through my journey to the astral or some crazy shit like that haha. There's also another theory I have about something taking me away but I hope it's not that LMFAO!

They're not Canadian? -----Well, at least that's the Canadian argument anyway opinion alert---- I wouldn't be so harsh on 'Americans'. Harsh on specific things that take people of any citizenry to that point (and beyond), yes. IMO it's too easy to point at this country in particular. But at the same time, it's not like the people don't know what's happening, really, is it? It's a terrible thing to be a subject. Born into it. Aussies and Canadians IMO just don't have all that 'dream' thing to deal with. IMO/IME. I mean it's not like I'm expecting to wake up as rich as Buffet tomorrow morning. I also have the leisure of not having to do what he did to get there.