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yech, actually re-reading it I think I came off too harsh. I'm striving for peace but my nature is to wade into Tar Sands, often self righteously. No one really wins these fights, its just an exercise in who can insult the other most cleverly. Here once again, I got too personal, too fast. Even in my own Personal Discussion space I saw myself shooting from the hip using words like Luddite Paranoia on friends who were just commenting on microwave ovens. Still the most powerful argument is a mirror, going all Yin on there ass. In Sushil's case saying. What if you get your wish? A genie grants it but then says, we'll try it out on your country first. Vaporize 90% of the people, because you're a visionary I'll let you live, but beware, no medication, no tech or textiles. Clean waters going to be hard to find. People may end up killing for it. On the third hand, I understand his longing. The peaceful village away from industrial society, honoring the old ways. Its not just a dream, its out there. One of the lecturer's I was went to recently was Krishna Das the singer and he talked of the little pristine villages up in India's mountainous regions where people sang and kept the old ways. Yet, here he was back in the West. We all want to head for a Hobbit Shire, but in reality the best solution is bring it closer to us. We get closer every fruit tree we plant.

Wait, I don't speak French... but you may dream in la langue... Morning "frog" in throat?

Have spent all of about 3 minutes on this since my last post, been busy I think its kind of funny you make that assertion that 'deniers' are in power and using authoritarian means to enforce it, because depending on which aspect you look at, it is exactly the opposite. So while there may be enough balance in congress to prevent drastic (not to mention unnecessary) action on co2, look at some local governments, look at academia, look at the MSM and AGW is basically gospel and you're loony to even question "the experts" aka the "climate scientists," regardless of how shaky their understandings are of various mathematical rigors. Fascism is as fascism does - who's doing what? Who's willing to use force to make others do as we wish? Who's saying I am correct no you may not look in my black-box-number-cruncher? To the extent that revenge is possible or necessary, mother nature will take it. To the extent it isnt, she wont. I've said many a time that the carbon crusade merely diverts resources from real environmental efforts. But then, every time you say something about co2, you bring in other environmental efforts. You're smarter than that, drew. Look at the math, look at the TSI, look at the history, look at the cooling coefficient for aerosols trying to explain the 70s cooling, look at how they 'fixed it' with a heavy co2 warming coefficient, note how every model that makes these mistakes 'breaks' and makes absolutely preposterous predictions on timescales longer than a decade or three - can you honestly tell me that crap stands up to rigor? All I see is that "its generally in line with your environmentalism" so you support it - but ffs, support it if its real - rail against real pollution, dont support more taxes for nothing, dont support a trillion paid out for a phantom .2 degrees of warming "saved or prevented." Politicians have a great many scams and the less we all buy into them, the better. You dream up some funny stuff sometimes. That's not what I said. I said the models dont predict these events that have massive cooling effects and many times in the past enough of them clumped together have precipitated ice ages. Cant predict their frequency, their intensity, their distribution. Another significant hole in the wall. Sorry to see you regret asking perfectly acceptable and valid questions, SB. So I asks questions that shoot a ton of holes in these models that predict disaster, but then I'm asked to explain everything and give out a perfectly correct theory of all this? Methinks if I could, I know of a certain person or three that wouldnt believe it anyway even if I had begun with omnisciently procuring the surrounding ten centuries of climate data and pulling sets of equations that perfectly describe it all out of thin air. Bottom line, The questions I ask about the fantasy models are straightforward questions, and they point out valid gaps in predictive capability for the models that make the preposterous predictions. I havent seen anyone post anything that refutes these gaps I have spoken of - only assertions that they are nevertheless correct overall. Little disconnect? The whole "well, you describe it all perfectly to us, then" is merely avoiding the questions I've asked. I'll be back later on things like why giss is skewed as hell, but really...in court if there is significant reasonable doubt you committed a crime, most often you are not convicted. Wrt/ AGW its like a kangaroo court where reasonable doubt isnt enough, you have to prove explicitly and unequivocally, and even then, you're told you're off your rocker because the people that run the court (i.e. agw peer review process) perverted it and actively suppressed dissent, all for wont of being correct for the scientists, all for wont of endless amounts of tax money to buy votes if you're a politician.

Thanks for sharing that TI, but I just dont think that is clear light. Sure it is 'an experience' but clear light, at least in everything I have ever read about it is not some 'experience' of a substance or energy flowing out of your face... Sure I might be wrong, but show me some traditional teaching that says clear light is an energy that flows out of your face... I thought clear light was more like: How you perceive naturally when obscuration's are less present, as it has to do with the true nature of mind... I have experienced what I think was possibly clear light several times during dreaming. In each case the experience came on after my dream images suddenly dissolved into open aware luminosity. Each time, my mind and perceptions were suddenly 'open' empty, and full of clarity and luminosity... And i felt in those moments that I was experiencing the actual nature of mind... Also very blissful and heart moving, but so are lots of things. Unless you can show me something traditional that say clear light comes out of your face, I would say enjoy your experiences but dont jump to premature conclusions as to the nature of them...

Greeting Cruhcy Chocolate. I recomend you the book "Healing with whole Foods", which contains a section dedicated to to a "liver cleansing program" which takes about three months, and the author emphasizes the imprtance of cleansing the Liver. Funny enough I was diagnosticated with Fire in the Liver, but I still did not start my cleansing program, I don`t know if it is the same as your case. But during a Vipassana retreat I actually had a dream that I had a tumour in that area, (I believe it is an energetic tumour). Any ways, I wil start the cleansing program and am making an approach on the Shen aspect also, which might be useful for you too. I noticed that I felt alot of hate also, which was kiond of hidden but always present inside, and it seems that all my practice was actually expanding and feeding this baseless hatred. So I finally had an insight on the so.... so important concept of Yama and Niyama which are essential before an adept of Yoga starts his practical cultivation of Spirit. But it aint that easy, I had to discover what really is meant by equanimity (Wuwei - non action - or non reaction) and stay vigilent 24hrs a day... as soon as any hate thought appears, you should empty yourself energically and refute it straight away, before the seed grows... but the best way is to not fight against it, just simply don`t feed it. it is very tyring in the begginning, but you must be vigilent... Actually you should do this with any pre-conceptions of any kind with any person... For example... No. 1) You see a person who does not have virtue developed on the street, he is clearly a show-off and you identify it. As soon as you start thinking something such as "what an idiot" or anything of that kind, you refrain yourself and empty your mind of such thoughts energetically, eventually you will cease to see his inferior personality and start seeing his hidden spiritual being, and feel compassion for the person, because she suffers for not having discovered this inner spiritual being. No 2) (sorry for any Marxist materialst in the forum)... If you see someone of a lower social class, and start fitting that person in one thousand social theories thinking things such as "oh, this person suffers so much because of his terrible fate, the world is so unfair, he hsould fight for his rights..." and so on... immediately empty your self from those "preconceptions" enertgically... after slot of vigilancy 24 hrs a day, you will start seeing things without preconceptions of any kind. note: I don`t mean that i don`t believe in any social theory. After you are established in Emptyness / equanimity, you can jump too and fro from the Emptyness-Contemplative-Spiritual perspective and the Knotted-congested theories and thoughts. I say this because by what you said, you practice alot of Qigong, etc.. which means that it is important that you discover Equanimity before "increasing the energy in the system". Equanimity is like the railroad that takes to Spiritual Knowledge, if the train is not on track, the increase of energy will accentuate the errors. this is the recipe for curing the Liver from the Shen point of view, to complement the Diet and more material treatment. You have Liver Stagnation. Preconceptions of ideas are nothing but a form of stagnation. Spiritual empty contemplation is pure fluidity. When fighting any preconception and Rage attacks remember the wise frase "it is not the poison of the snakes that kills us, but the way our body reacts to it", and empty your self form the poison`s action, and remain present, and equanimous. hope it helped/ best

more_pie_guy, thanks for the links. Those people basically has the similar idea like me. We're the producer, consumer and food. Trinity. We're the coder, code and decoder. Trinity. We're the heaven, earth and human. Trinity. Wer'e the doer, doing and watcher. Trinity. We're the dreamer, dream and observer. Trinity. We're living in a world that was directed by ourselves. It's a feedback system. Our desire provide direction for the next chapter. Our karma decides the actual outcome. If we stop desire for a long time for the past outcome to catch up, we can see and feel the direct feedback loop. If we desire water, if we have good karma, water will appear somehow. If you have bad karma, the water is nowhere to be found. Back to topic. WillingToListen is part of us. Each of us who's reading this thread and noticed WillingToListen suicidal thought must have suicidal though occassionally ourselve. I know I do. Though I don't want to kill myself for sure. But I'm not value my own life too much either. Deep in my heart, I just want to quit. The good thing is his name "willingToListen". That implies that we don't want to die. We're looking for reason to live. We can all help WillingToListen in two ways. Of course, talking to him and encourage him to live is good. Another way is to get rid of our own thought of suicide. If you don't have any suicidal thought, you either don't find WillingToListen post anymore or WillingToListen doesn't want to suicide anymore. Love Conquers All.

The cat I loved and lost as a little girl did give me a full blast spiritual experience, which I expressed in a poem, whose free-form translation I post below (the Russian original is rhymed iambic hexameter). "Bars" was his name, it means snow leopard in Russian and Mongolian. My Bars, I've had a great mystery revealed to me, so I've come to believe in paradise with a sign over the entrance that says, "Pets OK." I am willing to share the vast spaciousness beneath the eternal celestial dome with crazy cat ladies, spinsters and bachelors, mad Englishmen, with anyone who'd loved a cat or a dog for their devotion and devotedly shares paradise and ephemeralness with them, my Bars, philosopher, sybarite and Casanova, I had a dream, a far-away future year carved in a tombstone and above that number, my own name, but, Bars, you won't ever be a senior's cat -- with you, I will be ten years old again, so wait for me biding your time, hunting the pious rats in the fragrant groves, and pray, as is the local custom, for the sinful and the mangy, the skinny, the stealthy, the stray -- for they're all kin after all. There's fluffy herds of your lovers roaming around, or rather packs, and there's hundreds of ladders and roofs and windows, and, my Bars, I believe in a paradise that never shoos cats away -- if it exists it does not, and exist it does.

I'm on day 4 of another water fast. I did try the salt water flush recipe as mentioned in this thread. It made me close to vomit, so I am leery of having another try, though it worked well. It comes out as mainly dirty water, I was hoping for more solid material. I am also learning Spanish using fairly unintense methods, DVDs of television series that have Spanish dubbing and English subtitles. Water fasting has so much time to spend, one has to plan for alot of boredom. Last night in my dream, a monk was reciting mantras to me, and this morning I woke up in a better state, more positive, mentally free of the issues that have been hedging me in. One of the reasons I chose to fast was to re-center and balance myself, since it seemed to be the result of the last fast I did. I dont think enemas or saltwater flushes are necessary based on the research I have done, BTW.

Interesting dream. It gave me an idea that if creative energy is enhanced with "spiritual practice", and if someone is not accustomed to it, it would have a profound effect. If we are infinitely connected inside and out with the universe, then any experience, not just a supernatural event is a manifestation of creative energy. I have come to the idea that life is subtle, the way it is lived by us humans, and that sometimes the patterns experienced are the closest to consciously realizing the divine nature of all. When we realize that we are floating on a giant mass of matter that has been here for billions of years, it makes it almost a spiritual experience to wake up in the morning. It's sometimes fun to visualize dragons and spirit guides, but I'm convinced they are a creation of the mind. I just don't know how it is possible to have an experience to solidify a belief system without already wholy subscribing to that belief system. It's a catch 22 for me, and I'm not trying to be obtuse, or exercise dialectics. Some people "find" jesus, or experience the buddah nature, or they realize they have a soul and leave their bodies, changing and forming a belief. But doesn't that attachment further a dual nature? It's as if the experience would give a foothold to climb higher, and I have seen the effects of those who became attached to a natural event or thought process leading to a belief system only to later realize that a tree can have the same effect on the energetic system as a bible. ^another thought, I think group behavior can lead to someone having a spiritual experience, think of the energy produced in a southern baptist church, or pagan ceremony with very intense individuals.

I'm somewhere midway with all this. There are so many overlapping systems in which we (or I suppose I can only speak for myself:-)) exist and they interact with each other through our individual consciousness and often unconscious. I've found meditation a way of becoming more aware of them as they operate in/on me. Money is one of my favourite examples of something made up that has actual material implications and effects on living people. Scientific practice to me seems like the ideal solution to apply to myself. But I also have to be careful of 'science' because it gets passed through the consciousness and subconscious of others before reaching me. In that it has some similarities to the issue of creating a belief system out of a mystical experience like the OP describes. Imagine, just because some people decided however long ago to establish a belief in an ultimate authority 'creator god', I had to get indoctrinated into this belief system without asking to be indoctrinated. And when I protested, I was punished for it. I described a dream I had recently in another thread. Perhaps I should now qualify myself to teach exorcism? Or tell people to stay away from paintings? No, I'd need to learn the entire system before I could do that:-) And if the entire belief system is really only in my mind, what a disservice to others! People will often say 'ah, but science is aware of its own processes of gradual discovery' but that doesn't stop people using scientific proof as if it were gospel to justify certain actions, much like appeals to the gods' authority have been used. Still, I'm attracted to empiricism and researching what other people have had to say about their own experiences of meditation. I think it's fine to be used by a person as they see fit. But don't insist or force or coerce anyone else to do it. ---very personal opinion---

You are absolutely correct. This is why you really need a one on one discussion with someone who knows the territory perfectly well. Its not a formula, one size fits all. However, once you recognize, then its known. Then you find your own ways to trigger this again and again, short moments, many times until stable. The state is always stable, as the Basis doesn't change. But what is not stable is the absence of mind. The mind comes and goes, not rigpa. Get that? The biggest aspect of the mind that comes and goes is the sense of a "me". That is a subconscious projection that "you" do not control. That projection exists because the dumb mind consciousness doesnt know its situation properly. It mistakes the body, mind, thoughts, memories and self-image to be an existing "me". So it projects this historical "me" entity. It is created the same way that your self in your dreams at night is created. But when you wake up, you don't notice the subconsious is projecting another dream identity. That projection is "you", your current experience of "me" identity. Observe this sense of self, differentiate it from the empty observingness that is not a projection, when successful you will pop back into what you always are when not day dreaming being someone else: rigpa. I can dialogue to expose the "I" projection with you. Its like when the mind ceases believing that a rope in a dark room is not a snake when the lights are turned on. Likewise suddenly the mind realizes there is no "personal" self... poof!

What a beautifully framed question - and i am in the same quandary as you. i have always liked the vegetarian diet and now the vegan diet for so many reasons but I become a methane plant on these diets. When I first started very intense practice (40 yrs ago) I became a vegetarian for 4 years - the methane problem never left me - but is was less then with the dairy and yogurt and kefir. I read a good book then called "Are you confused" , it set the basis for pretty much the rest of my life. I tried the meat/fat thing for some time - probably because I like bloody meat - but it is simply unhealthy and I don't like the "low" it puts in my energy mix. Forks Over Knives in conjunction with the China study and the piles of other studies make very convincing cases with many excellent case studies for long periods. The Paleo Diet is popular now and plays on logic but it looks more like a salesman's dream than a great diet. Regarding Olive Oil - Coconut is apparently far superior - at least make sure your Olive Oil is fresh and keep it in the refrigerator - it oxidizes pretty swiftly. Presently I am Vegan and leaning into Gluten Free - I feel very good at this time - but frequently make the paint peel with the side effects. Today I went to my sons school play and had to plan in advance not to eat much of anything because I did not want people to suffer from my diet. (I am exaggerating here a bit because vegetarian gas does not generally have the sulfur odor that is the real killer) Sorry to be so morbid. From a meditative standpoint - vegan has been the best for me and so I am tweaking it to fit. It take time to develop a full fun easy experience - Trader Joe's makes it seem pretty easy. Now here is something of interest - I had a "live blood" analysis done recently and I have decided to purchase my own Live Blood / Dark Field microscope because of the analysis I had done! (I manufacture specialty underwater cameras and scopes so I don't have to pay the big bucks they want for them in retail) What an eye opener - a good friend was so impressed with the one he had done that I did it to! You can actually see how you (your blood) are doing inside in real time up on a big screen - check into it online - it has been used in the east for quite some time.

Are you missing alot?,...no,...but I did observe enormous barriers that you appear to be unaware of, and which must be transcended. First,...any serious practitioner of understanding the Nature of Reality must realize that we do not observe the world that surrounds us, but merely the world that surrounded us. That is the point where one realizes that science cannot determine the truth of (absolute) reality. Nobel Prize-winning physicist Charles Townes was correct when he said, "Many people don’t realize that science basically involves assumptions and faith." The best of scientists have pointed to something other than what science deals with,...for example, "As a man who has devoted his whole life to the most clear headed science, to the study of matter, I can tell you as a result of my research about atoms this much: There is no matter as such." Max Planck, Nobel laureate Or,... "True reality lies beyond immediate sensation and the objects we see every day." Georg Hegel I can understand Marblehead's feelings about the senses,...but both enlightened and open-minded folks gave different responses to that,...for example, "the ego is a monkey catapulting through the jungle; totally fascinated by the realm of the senses....if anyone threaten it, it actually fears for its life. Let this monkey go. Let the senses go.....the only way to understand [the Tao] is to directly experience it." Lao Tzu Or the Father of the Scientific Method, René Descartes, articulated, "All that I have tried to understand to the present time has been affected by my senses; now I know these senses are deceivers, and it is prudent to be distrustful after one has been deceived once." In other words, and I'll be blunt,...it is impossible to understand reality through the 6 senses. "As soon as one sense-organ returns to the source, All the six are liberated." Avalokitesvara One must be liberated from the 6 senses before even a single truth is realizable. It is impossible to has a direct experience through the 6 senses,...all experience born of the 6 senses can only be experienced through the conditions of the 6 senses. Although astral projection is a fun diversion,...it is, nevertheless, a diversion. Imagine McKenna's response to "the serious seeker." Do you think that someone serious about understanding the Nature of Reality would be involved with astral projection? I used to do astral projection 30 years ago,...would meet several friends on a regular basis,...in different places,...both worldly and other worldly. However,...it will not devulge anything about the Nature of Reality,...and not much about the Nature of the Dream. A real Seeker of Truth does not seek truth,...they seek and dissolve all they can find that is not not truth. A Buddhist said, "The real seeker of truth never seeks truth. On the contrary, he tries to clean himself of all that is untrue, inauthentic, insincere - and when his heart is ready, purified, the guest comes. You cannot find the guest, you cannot go after him. He comes to you; you just have to be prepared. You have to be in a right attitude." Even some airy-faery New Agers got that one figured out,...as Eckhart Tolle said, "we need to draw our attention to what is false in us, for unless we learn to recognize the false as the false, there can be no lasting transformation, and you will always be drawn back into illusion, for that is how the false perpetuates itself"

yeah Jim Nance said I think too much. Chunyi Lin said my mind was confused but that was right after he said I had an enlightenment experience but then I had stopped practicing so my energy channels closed up. It's cuz I was thinking of Emptiness as a static realm beyond good and evil but actually as Master Nan states there are different levels of Emptiness and so further purification is always required. So then I continued researching to discover the time-frequency principle as the secret of yin-yang resonance using non-commutative logic from non-western music theory. I feel very satisified now that I clarified my research but it took ten years of getting feedback online from people debating me and trying to debunk me. haha. I went to every library and bookstore in the Twin Cities - by bicycle -- sat in full lotus while reading one scholarly book a day -- and then dumpster dived for food. About as wild as you can get while living in the city. Yeah I still ate organic food and then was "flexing" my pineal gland doing free healings all day long for five years. So now my jing energy is low -- I have to eat a lot of meat, eggs and dairy to get my jing energy up every day and then I burn it off fast. Yeah last night I had a sex dream but I had internal orgasm in my sleep -- which was pretty cool - I woke up thinking I had lost the alchemical pill - -but instead the climax was internal. That's a good sign as I've been practicing more since getting the c.d.s for practice and getting my mom to attend the Free Friday healing so she could experience the Jim Nance "free sample" healing. haha. Someone said Master nan said he no longer needed to sit in full lotus. I find this hard to believe - but I didn't know he was also smoking. Yeah when I did intensive training I was not posting on forums -- I only used email and not for any personal use -- so also very little social interaction and with no females -- just read meditation books and then meditated six hours a day and was on a pure diet -- no salt - just lots of organic broccoli and brown rice and tofu and bragg's sodium and salt-free organic corn chips sometimes -- lots of organic vegetables -- cabbage, etc. I would just steam vegetables in a tray with the rice cooker -- also only worked 2 days a week on the weekend when no one was around - and barely exercised - just biked a mile when I worked. Best of all I attended Chunyi Lin's classes and guild meetings on the weekends -- so at least once a month got the qigong master transmission. I had a car.

ummm. ... well.... Master Nan said there has to be mind yoga -- the source of the I-thought -- but Master Nan also says that if the body is sick then the mind can not be emptied out to achieve true samadhi and so the spirit or shen energy sinks into oblivion at death. I don't know - he died from pneumonia so it appears he was not able to carry through his teachings. He lived long -- 95 -- but I think he got mobbed by students and so was not able to practice enough. Master Ni, Hua-ching (a Taoist teacher) has moved from L.A. back to China -- and was born in the early 1900s - so he is achieving longevity by cutting ties with the world so to speak.... Chunyi Lin said his dream is to do a year long fast full lotus non-stop meditation in the mountains of China - I'm guessing maybe with Master Zhang of http://qigongmaster.com Anyway yeah the source of the I-thought is the key -- I wish I had known that - I discovered Master Nan, Huai-chin right after I came out of bigu samadhi -- I was desperate for answers. I read his books three times each -- before I finally grasped the concepts he was conveying. But as he states almost all practitioners "fall back into worldliness" as soon as spiritual powers are achieved. Yan Xin emphasizes also practicing in secret to store up the energy. So yeah thetaobums does not allow this as the information exchange drains too much energy. haha. My own research has finally leveled off - as Chunyi Lin said I was researching the quantum physics side of things -- and so basically for me it has been "intellectual self-defense." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dxilks2HNQ8 oh thanks!

We can talk about what people can do before coming to Dzogchen. Some things may seem helpful, some not so helpful and some things increase confusion and suffering. There is no need to construct an intellectual view of Dzogchen first. There is no need for any pre-requisites in a general sense. Realizing two-fold emptiness is not a pre-requisite to Rigpa. Two-fold emptiness is an "unestablished" condition of Rigpa. Each situation is different. If the "direct introduction" does not bring this "wisdom" shift, then perhaps you could say the "direct introduction" wasn't so professionaly delivered. The teacher should have great insight into the needs of the student prior to the direct introduction. The error is with the teacher, not the student. In Dzogchen the actual tradition is: First we do "direct introduction". That's the way of Dzogchen Ati-yoga. Rigpa is not an intellectual break-through into realzing the nature of "emptiness" as an insightful understanding that results in "rigpa". That is still a revelation of intellectual clarity, not rigpa. Dzogchen is not and never was a gradual path. Why not? Because there is not an entity that gradually "gets it". There is no "getting it", because there is nothing to get nor anyone to "get it". This is all clear just from the Prajnaparamita Sutras alone as well as from many early teachings of the Buddha. There is experience, yet "no self, me or mine" that can be found either before, during or after investigation. In transmission or illumination this is known directly, not like having graduated from "No self" or Dzogchen 101. The whole notion of a step by step path is absurd. Why? Because it assumes there is a "traveller" to travel on a path and a goal to be reached. Its a sad state of affairs that for many teachers and students Dzogchen has been relegated to the lower yanas of "cause and effect" teachings and practices. No one attains "enlightenment" nor does anyone realize rigpa. The whole idea is anti-Buddhist in structure (anatta). Simple Jack, you asked: " Do you have a sense of an abiding "rigpa/awareness," when encountering sensations, sounds, thoughts, etc.?" How ridiculous! You mean you still have a sense of "encountering" sensations, sounds, and thoughts? Let's ask instead; when you Jack are busy "encountering" sensations, sounds and thoughts, are you, during this dualistic experience, recognising the true nature of sensations, sounds and thoughts to be "wisdom" as "effulgent rigpa" itself? There is no need to have a great deal to say about Dzogchen, the less the better. None of what you say or know is relevant. Its all conceptual sem, ALL of it. That's why the "direct introduction" is so necessary, and I don't mean some hooky transmission you receive over a webcast to hundreds of people. The "direct introduction" has to be personal and one on one. In this initial flash, a clarification and sorting out occurs where rigpa becomes differentiated from sem or afflicted mind. This is the essential "Khorde Rushen". When that happens all that intellectual gathering of insights and information regarding Dzogchen and Buddhism including "emptiness", collapses... completely gone, and is seen to be so many meaningless movements and manuevers in a "day dream". All of it was a waste of time. Nothing got "you" closer. If you don't know that with certainty than Rigpa has not arisen.

There is the quiet nothingness that we slip into during the duration between dreams. Then there is the sense of awareness, creativity and the desire to share that is within us when we are awake. And then there is the dream state which is somewhere in betwee. All of this I believe provides clues as to the nature of the origin. I do not believe that the Dao is elusive (we are part of it) nor must we follow it (we are part of it), nor must we seek to return to it (we are part of it). We are all aware of it (ourselves) but it is indeed difficult to understand. In Hindu it is called the Maya-Lila (Hidden Play).

Flolfolil pretty much nailed that on the head. Now regarding jerks and tremors - they are caused by so many things that it is far too vast a subject for the topic at hand - though I would be very interested in hearing more about what jerks or tremors Flolfolil had and how he got rid of them in 3/4 of a year. Actual practical info may be very helpful to someone in this topic. Only some seizures involve spirit possession - a very good friend and former teacher Lewis Bostwick was a very powerful psychic all of his life and studying seizures was something he did and that we talked about on occasion. My 3rd eye opened when i was 22. I met Lewis about 9yrs later. We also lost a friend to a violent seizure attack. In studing transmediumship and working with transmediums as well as working with beings without bodies, I became very familiar with vibration - lower - higher - finer coarser - earth - cosmic etc. Meditation - the type that does not include trance - I say this because the distinction has been blurred - is very helpful to everyone. What is not taught in the books and what very few masters would have a chance to say to a student with a propensity to seizures is this: Student initially starting on the path always do the following - and it is only right that they do this - we all try to feel something. We would like to see something as well but at the very least feel something. A chakra spinning, some meridian, perhaps a smidgen of someones aura - even a pets aura - any aura will do. It would be fantastic if our teacher would just levitate and dispell any doubts we have. Touch us with their Chi - read our mind or send us on a through a wall and into another dimension. They don't - at least not too frequently. So we are left at this very wide entry gate looking at all the different paths and we devour everything we can in the way of books and local lectures, demonstrations and now - all the online YouTube stuff - some of which is off the wall excellent. We start meditation - maybe Yoga - Qi Gong - maybe 20 things at once. We buy a crystal because we hear that they amplify energy and we play with holding it in one hand and moving it over our finger tip chakras or our palm chakras. (most of us have a crystal somewhere in our drawers) As we begin actual practice we invariably tend toward wanting to open everything - our chakras, our channels, and we also tend to want to "raise our vibration", and some of us want to speak with "angels", do astral travel, healing work, chanting etc. By the time we actually start we have become somewhat of an "authority' on many metaphysical things (that is of course until we are standing in front of a real teacher and we quickly come to understand that if we put all of our "knowledge" into a thimble it would not be visible to a eagles eye. (do not misunderstand me - you should prepare yourself - you should intend to study and not be duped by yourself and others - you will find here and there in the writings of almost all the sages - that a good and healthy intellect is often considered as key in attaining enlightenment). And of course - as soon as your start working with a teaching and a school the first thing you need to do is "stop all the banter" - "quit thinking so much" - "just stop, breath". So here you are - practicing for real - it is amazing the way you feel - you didn't do practically anything and already you feel like never before!!! Perhaps you have a dream - a trance experience - you feel so much energy - like a rocket ship! Perhaps for the first time you are "really letting go of the pain" or "the past". Whole vistas start to feel achievable - !!! You want to grab your friends and wake them up to this stuff - thier are not enough hours in the day! And you like to leave all your energy fields on as much as possible - opening up is what its all about right?!! Actually - what you are doing is leaving all the doors open to your house - at the same time you are leaving all the lights on and playing the stereo at full blast (this is pretty much how us guys do it - women are a bit more subtle but not by much - they don't usually play the stereo as obnoxiously loud). Forgive me for this phenomenally long post/novel When you do your practice - be aware of starting and ending points. Be aware of your diet - all of your diet - the food, the media, the air, the friends etc. Your energy will increase many fold within a very short time. You may not even notice just how much it has increased, and this is for several reasons. Lets say you used to "live" in a very limited portion of your space. In that space you felt very much alive but missing something. Now, your energy encompasses much much more of you and you are really owning that space, but you are not as vividly pointed as before. So you may actually be filling the whole glass now but the grounds are no longer visible. For those of you here - concerned about seizures - you already know about your food diet and the importance of watching it. You will also want to take special care in opening and closing your doors. Walking around with "your space wide open" is not good for anyone - and most teachers overlook this or do not understand it much but know that continuous work along the path will take care of it - which is true for all but those who end up in the loony bin or commit suicide or are suddenly able to drink about 4 times as much alcohol. More on this later - I have to go ...

I apologize if anyone has already responded by saying that the late psychiatrist Carl Gustav Jung came up with the idea of synchronicity and he named it such. One of his patients, a woman, was describing a dream she had about a dove and then a dove flew thru the open window of his office. (I think that's how it happened) Once one begins to take note of synchronicity it's quite surprising how many incidents there are in a week.

Hi Shen, Yes, visitations from preservers of the White Tiger family of internal arts do occur. Just as Sifu Garry described in his own case, I had constant psychic and telepathic communications with GMDW during my years of training. And Sifu Garry is absolutely right in saying that it is usually the art that chooses the man and not the other way around. But don't take our word for it, test out the extra-ordinary advice you received you received through the dream-state. And see what happens. Best, Sifu Terry http://www.taichimania.com/chikung_catalog.html

Hi, Dzogchen mentions that one must have what's called "transmission or be introduced to one's own nature" through a master. Verbally explaining it won't do it. It's akin to saying writing a book about ripe, delicious cherries....Great book! no actual food! Although some people are born with the "inborn understanding" of Dzogchen and the state of Naked Awareness, most of us were not....lol Jiddhu Krishnamurti talked a LOT about Choiceless Awareness which is what Dzogchen calls "Naked Awareness." Krishnamurti said that one could be Choicelessly Aware unknowingly but did need a teacher....he himself taught on & about Choiceless Awareness quite a lot. Choiceless Awareness corresponds to the Semde or "Mind series" teachings in Dzogchen only and not working with the subtle energy system or "voice." Of course, Naked awareness/Bare attention is something EVERYONE can learn but how one "works" with that is another story, as mentioned above. One inevitably needs a teacher or at least the verbatim words of a real teacher of these things....no 2 ways about it. Krishnamurti is the only teacher who taught about such high level things openly, that I'm aware of! Maybe some Theras understand this Choiceless Awareness or maybe not...I don't know. Anyway, Check out Krishnamurti's study book called "Choiceless Awareness" & pick up "Self Liberation through seeing with Naked Awareness" by Snow Lion publications. You won't be disappointed. Regarding teachings through dreams: One must have "culled" the ability to be aware in the dream itself. This is a practice taught in Dzogchen circles. Rudolf Steiner mentions "continuity of consciousness from sleep into the dreaming state." I think that THIS is something different than Dzogchen teachings but obviously similar. Finally, One has to have a relationship IN the spirit realm. "Who would a person communicate to and Why?" are the quintessential questions along with "Why would a person/entity want to talk with me if they didn't have an agenda? be it selfish or selfless???" is the other question. I hope this makes sense sir. Take care & God bless you! Stefos P.S. I view Advaita Vedanta in the same manner as I do Dzogchen...it's all theory without a teacher!

It was the dream of the founding fathers to give man what he has never had before and that was freedom. Since the dawn of civilized man ; man has always been ruled by another with no personal rights or boundaries from the ruling elite.

I have read a bunch of Dzogchen books and tried to practice from them because theoretically Dzogchen makes so much sense to me, but without the pointing out instructions by a qualified Lama I never really knew if what I was doing was correct or if I was just wasting my time. I did enjoy reading the autobiography of Dudjom Lingpa though which is one of the most bizarre spiritual books I have ever read, which involves him fighting with demons by grabbing them by the ankles and spinning them around and other strange tales, but he received his entire Buddhist training in dreams and visions so reading that really gives you motivation to try to work with your own dreams and visions because if he can get teachings in dream time why not you?

hi TI, remember that its okay to have a different impression of a book than someone else. I am glad to hear that you like it so much. i have read about clear light in a bunch of places.. the union of luminosity and emptiness, the subtle manifestation underlying all reality, and so on and so forth what i don't have is direct experience of clear light, unimpeded by other aspects of reality. Maybe in the bardo, but i didn't recognize it as such at that time. i have read (lopon malcolm) that clear light has nothing to do with seeing visions of light, At any rate, i didn't say it was a bad book. I said i liked the introduction better than the translation and commentary. Thats just me expressing how it struck me.. as in, good thing we aren't all the same! lol i never said that the book wasn't good. anyway, i don't have a lot to add, although i have been practicing the beginning stages of sleep and dream yoga, with small but good results, but dont want to talk about that much.. inner yogas and dzogchen are traditionally private, so even when i do achieve results, i think that they are just for me. I prefer to keep my practice sealed in the traditional way. Even when i talk privately with people about my experiences i feel really weird about it afterwards. I think its best for me just to talk to my lama and other meditation teachers about things like that. But i digress If i achieve insight into clear light in a general way, i will be happy to share for the benefit of others. Til then, the words are just words to me (alas! lol)...

Hello everyone! How do you personally interpret Wu Wei - non-action? Do you see it as being passive, phlegmatic, "going with the flow"? Do you see it as being so skilled in something, that it becomes natural for you to do it, without effort? I believe Wu Wei can be accomplished by great practice and learning in a field. When you have a goal or a dream and you are set on it, you must act based on what's most natural to you and what seems to be the easiest, non-agressive and natural way. I don't think Wu Wei denotes passivity or having no plans or goals, but just that you accomplish those things in the most efficient and elegant way. It's simmilar to Occams razor - we examine and accect the simplest, most elegant theory. Wu Wei is accepting the most elegant and simple, most natural action to accomplish something. When one has attained Wu Wei, one does the right thing without much thinking. It is natural to him. It is a higher state of consciousness. It can be called enlightment. Am I on the right track? What do you think? Thanks in advance! --- P.S. If there was a simmilar topic or if this is the wrong subforum, I apologize!