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Caterpillars often philosophize about Butterflies. "... but at the end of the day you're either a caterpillar or a butterfly, and the only way anyone will ever have even the slightest sense of what it means to be a butterfly is to become one. There are no butterfly experts among the caterpillars, despite innumerable claims to the contrary" Jed McKenna You will find though that if you meet a butterfly, they will not fit any of the preconceptions that many people have about them. 　 To become a butterfly,...all that is a caterpillar,...all beliefs, hopes, dreams,...must die. It is amazing how caterpillars attempt to define what a butterfly is,...as if one can become the other,...or even imagine such. But yet, we live in a world where butterflies are defined by caterpillars. The truth of butterflies is this,...they are awake,...and do not untransform back to caterpillars. For many, real butterflies are caterpillars arch enemy,...for the butterfly exists beyond the dream of beliefs. To be a butterfly, everything caterpillar must die. You cannot bring your caterpillarness along,...just as one cannot bring beliefs into the heart of essence.

Skies clear revealing Namcha Barwa (25,436'), to the far left on the Indian continent and Gyala Peri (23,891'), to the far right on the Asian continent. Only approximately 12 miles apart, the world's deepest gorge (17,758') lies between these two great mountains. The formidable Dorje Bragsen (pron. Droksen - drok = rock) mountain (12,818'), stands guard in the middle ground protecting the entrance into this most elusive and sacred "Inner Gorge". (This is the first photograph ever taken of these geologic formations from this eastern direction.) Studying possible ascent routes up the guardian mountain Dorje Bragsen (left) - Gyala Peri (23,891') - (center) stands luminous above the unrevealed "Inner Gorge". Swallowed in the clouds trying to locate the elusive route into the hidden "Inner Gorge". The Buddhist Shaman had his dream. The Westerners can be taken up and over the sacred guardian protector mountain - Dorje Bragsen. The beginning of our climb - note the expedition, dwarfed in the bottom left of the photograph. the steep and treacherous ascent up the sacred guardian protector mountain - Dorje Bragsen (12,818') Troy Gillenwater and the Buddhist hunter from the clouds scout possible descent routes from the top of Dorje Bragsen - gateway to the "Inner Gorge". Skies uncharacteristicaly clear. Matuk and the first Buddhist hunter "guide" (who materialized from the mists) survey the countryside.

Hi Friend, I completely agree that it is possible to have "material effects" on existence. Also, Qi does definitely effect people even if they don't notice it. My point was only that for conscious awareness of external energy "contact", i have found that the person needs to be Qi sensitive. I have noticed that the "contact" is often registered on a subconscious basis (even if they are not sensitive) and it sometimes shows up in a vivid dream. Best, Jeff

idk how i feel about every dream being an astral travel if that is what you are getting at...

Oh what could it mean? The joker of last night's dream? I AM the Batman!

green, purple joker popped up in my dream - it seems Oh, what could it mean?

I can say when i was practicing something similar to what you talk about i also have a little of those neigong energy etc things spontaneously realise as well as powerful things happening at night when im sleeping/wake, but when its all over i cant tell what happened. (not a dream or obe). But i didn't think that it was enough, and some sort of practice is needed to fully open the physical body and its energy as well as meditation practice to purify the mind, getting rid of conditoinings even after seeing essence. I know this is described in the books but what you're saying is that there is no need to do any practices to achieve this aim. Sorry but i am curious, would you mind telling us more about the neigong capacities and capabilities that have occured because of your practice? Youve been doing this since the late 80s so basically your body's energy channels are all open, your whole body purified and healed of anything without having to practice any formal qigong/ neigong skill? Through this have you also spontaneously realised the true meaning of the I Ching and learnt to feel the energies of the trigrams? And have you already achieved the birth of the immortal fetus, or the pure yang body outside the body through self refinments in everyday ordinary situations? The texts say that it happens when all of the mundane is gone. If you haven't achieved this, are you aware of your progress toward this aim from the changes in your mind and spirit? When does one really achieve immortality from all this?

turtle shell a bro-nee? i doubt it but will look forward to his return and response. me nope but i am not fiercely anti-pony i am just fiercely anti-horse stance. i do appreciate the the postings of the alledged el hefe of the pony mafia tho. we cant forget cat pillar, i think he is solidly in the pony mafia. pink ponies are not hard and edgy enuff for my taste, but it takes all types to make up the Great Tao, and i do not judge. but i look at zen nomad as being hard and edgy, so who knows. bro-nee on and keep dreaming of pink prancing ponies. i dream of baguazhang mostly edit> wanted to add hard and edgy for balance http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCjxZHGHL4Y

It appears that you were neither wrong nor right, SB, for are we, each of us, not mere expedience as well, each dependent on root and contributing circumstance, that is, until complete realization is reached? As Thinley Norbu said, mushrooms dont suddenly spring up in meadows. Due to various conditions and seasonal play, they, of course, become mushrooms, so, when we eat mushrooms, we are actually eating the conditions which has come together through space and time. Same goes with hearing and so on. Conditions, all. Fixating on the manifestations by labels and names is where stuckness occur, hence grasping takes shape and form. It is said in The Jewel Treasure of the Dharmadatu: This is called the self-manifestation of enlightened mind. Its unobstructed emanation can occur as anything, With concept and without concept, as the existent phenomena of outer elements and inner beings, Including all varied phenomena. Even as all these arise, they naturally do not exist substantially. There is no such thing - there is not any permanent material nature. Just like the water of a mirage, a dream, an echo, Miraculous emanation, the reflection of form, a town of gandharvas, and the illusion of the eyes. It is simply appearing. While it is appearing, There is no base, there is no substance; just recognize it as only sudden temporary appearances arising from time to time. It must be realized that phenomena are not always, but occasional.

The point is that you cannot claim 'my chair is real' because dream-chairs also seem real. http://thetaobums.com/topic/26462-being-a-realist-buddhist-definition-is-not-good/

i guess we merely distingush "dreams" differently sicne i consider every present now-ness moment a dream... maybe?

just cuz you dont recall your dreams doesnt mean you DONt dream. even if you simply witness an unconscious state of void and nothingness, it is still part of the dreamstate

Nope. I don't dream. I wake without worries too.

It's also called the hundred syllable mantra. http://www.lamayeshe.com/index.php?sect=article&id=394 In Tibetan Buddhism, its one of the 4 preliminary practices used to purify oneself before going on to the next stage of enlightenment. It is said that after one chants the mantra 100,000 times, ones negative karma will be removed. My experience with the mantra so far, is having a dream with light appearing from the clouds shining down on all sentient beings. I was wondering about other's experiences as well.

Dominicus,...your posts reveal that you have not had a direct experience with anything. Like the whole of Esoteric Christianity, you are claiming something that is impossible. Experience born of belief can only be experienced through the condition of that belief.. I understand that you place monks/hermits on pedestals of admiration for their inter-faith advocacy,...and as such, it is quite difficult for you to see that everything you thought is meaning is rather meaningless. You spent much time and energy attempting to hold together a reality that is merely a dream. Just reduce all you can gather about Buddhism and Taoism into a single idea: Lao Tzu said, "the Tao doesn't come and go." Buddha said, "the Tathagata does not come and go." That is the only Unconditionality. Esoteric Christianity is not even close. I can also understand dreamers like Paulno, who feel the need to strike out against, saying how hateful is VMarco. The truth is quite upsetting for believers,...and they typically set out to kill those who challenge their beliefs. What doesn't come and go? The Present. The Present, that is the absolute Present, cannot be revealed through any form of Christianity or Abrahamic religion. The Present is only revealed when delusions such as any form of Christianity or Abramhamic religion is let go. Buddhism says,...and is implied in Taoism,...without the direct realization of emptiness, absolute bodhichitta, the true practice of compassion is impossible. So I'm not in the least bit worried that you guys could laugh with compassion, because a safe bet would be that they haven't a clue what real compassion is. "Buddhist teachings on compassion are grounded in the direct realization of Emptiness; without which, compassion is impossible." Robert Thurman commentary on the Dalai Lama's The Four Noble Truth's There are not many paths to enlightenment,...there is but one,...and that begins with the recognition that all beliefs are false.

OH NO, WE'VE BEEN MOVED TO THE OFF TOPIC AGAIN CURSE YOU, MOD SQUAD, YOU'VE FOILED MY PLANS AGAIN BUT I WILL BE BACK IN AUTUMN(I think) THE NEW SEASON OF PONY WILL RISE AND WE SHALL RULE AGAIN!!! and I expected it to be moved to off topic, I'm just goofing Actually know what, that's a good idea. Lot's of people like to review episodes but they give wishy-washy explanations for the morals of the story so something solid would be perfect. Celestia is a great teacher, she send Twilight to Ponyville at the start of the series to teach her the magic of friendship. The experiences Twilight had was like the egg in a bottle parable. Celestia could have sat Twilight down and explained everything about magic and friendship like you guys expect masters to act, but she send her to Ponyville to experience it. Kids don't listen to their parents when they explain stuff but they can live their own life and prevail over obstacles by themselves like a small chick that is strong enough to peck out of the egg. When it grows more it could peck out of the bottle. Celestia let Twilight go because she knew she could do it. I guess MLP gives education that spiritual community could never understand. If you look anywhere, literally, spiritual people are loners. They focus on greater things when nothing else distracts them. You could be eating delicious food now and watching a show or talk with somebody about somethings, instead there is a big focus on how these things are not important. Spirituality happens when detachment happens, money is meaningless, your possessions will be gone after you die or they get stolen, attachment causes suffering. Twilight is you, she wants to study magic and know how the world works. She doesn't care for friends and so Celestia sends her to Ponyville to make some. Enlightenment/Immortality/Golden Body is sought by ONE person. You can do it yourself, living on a mountain and being a hermit. Spiritual person sees beauty in nature and the ugly in society. Hates money, hates rules, hates authority. Sees deep meaning in nature but not in these things. Instead, it makes the spiritual person feel trapped in these things. There is freedom in nature and seeing empty fields where you can run. That's where paradise is, being one with nature but denying things that make one human and other humans. Spiritual person might not be human either, humans can do amazing things together and they stay together. Other five ponies almost represent these things that the spiritual person hates but actually needs. Rarity makes pretty dresses and likes to look good. Looks don't last and precious things like dresses don't either. Attachments cause suffering when you loose them. Spiritual person would not make attachments out of fear of getting hurt, that would be the worst possible thing. No special attachments to special things and not so special person. So many Buddhist monks look the same just with their heads shaved and they're all happy. Getting hurt is part of life and you can expect it for a long time but it might not come, it's just all in your head. Applejack has ties with her family. They are the closest people to you and link to other people. They are even more special then objects, even masters become special people but people are also an attachment. God forbid you meet someone nice and fall in love and get hurt. You have no control over people and that's even scarier, so many things could go wrong, you could even say the wrong thing to them and upset them. No need to be scared. Rainbow Dash has big dreams and she wants to join the Wonderbolts, to do that she needs to be the best flyer ever. This attachment will hurt her if she never accomplishes her dream. There are expectations that Wonderbolts have of her and the ones she has of them, she might not meet them and they might not, too. There are a bunch of old people whining about things they wish they did if they could be young again, they say to the young people to do that and that's a lot of pressure. But living is fun, so whatever she does, she will do more them these guys ever did. Fluttershy is shy, big whoop. Human interaction is scaaaaaaary, don't you wish you could read the mind of the other person talking? That would make things a lot easier and you won't ever offend anyone or say something wrong. Kinda scary when you imagine that everyone cares what you say and remember it. No one cares, and if you want someone to care, you have friends. PINKIEPIEEEEEEEEEEE!!! She likes to party, do funny stuff. and act goofy. Everyone likes her and if you think back to the school days, she might remind you of a class clown you had in your class. That kid who wants to be part of the crowd and so he tries to get everyone's attention. You won't want to be him and Pinkiepie is not like that. Everyone likes her and comes to her. She doesn't have to work hard like the class clown, she lives as hard as she can and has everyone. But you know what? Even if you want to be alone, hate money, and think that the man is bringing you down, you can still become friends with like minded people, it's not a club.

More manifesting news. Early this week I wanted to collect some rock songs w/ the theme of dreaming in them. Something to listen to at night, maybe help my dream work along. The next day I saw a compillation album, all dream songs and on sale Strange. Michael

Access February 2013's newsletter (with the free ebook code) from Phoenix Pick by clicking below: http://ArcManor.hosted.phplist.com/lists/lt.php?id=Zx8ACh4MAR9SVQUN It's Arc of the Dream, VERY enjoyable How did Attanasio get so wise about "this stuff" ?

I love this prose, written by a Canadian: "Waking up is not necessarily pleasant; you get to see why all this time, you chose to sleep. When you wake up the first thing you will see is Reality does not exist for you, you exist for it. Shocking as it is when you let it in, there is rest. You do not have to labor anymore to hold together a reality that does not exist; forcing something to be real that is not real. You and this life you have been living are not real ... In letting it in, even through the shock... pain... shattering, there is rest. Reality is when all you want to know is what is true ...just so that you can let it in and be true. Reality is not a safe place for you - the you that you have created. It is the only place where you would die; where there is no room for your hopes, your dreams. Once you have let it in, once you begin to re-awaken; to let Reality wake you up, nothing can get it out. That is the beginning of your end. Waking up can be much more painful than the agony of your dream, but waking up is real."

maybe youre confusing it with a post about the roots of buddhism. if you read it again, you'll see that it has nothing to say about the roots of vajrayana. I mentioned that jolan chang reports in The Tao of Love and Sex that the physical sexual practices were called the chinese practices in tibet, which might mean that vajrayana incorporated some chinese wisdom in the course of its history. Neither I, nor Chang, made any claims about the origins of vajrayana. I understand that you are a purist and think that vajrayana, or buddhism, is the root of daoism, but to me it is not inconceivable that the two have different origins, and that they cross pollinated during the course of their history. I wouldn't dream of talking to you about the origins of vajrayana, i am sure i would be wrong lol... it all came from the dharmakaya and samboghakaya anyway so its not like you know the origins of it either lol anyway moving on

The idea of "seek and you will find" is pretty much BS. Likewise, seek your hopes, and more and more and more hopes will be provided for you to seek. There are more millionaires still stuck in Maslow's Lowerarchy, than most would dare to imagine. From how I understand this question,,,,if you acquire all you hope for, will that end hope? No! For IMO, you cannot acquire all that you hope for,..acquiring all that you hope for is social and governmental propaganda,...work for the American dream and you'll be happy. You cannot seek hope, and wish for truth realization, at the same time. You see,...fantasy TV of bad guys having great spiritual power is nonsense,...great power arises from letting go of expectations,....expectation = hope. A positive desire or wish is greater than self,... it is an intentional invocation to allow Spirit to flow. Hope and the desire for things to be other than they are, arise from memory,ordinary knowledge, the Five Skandhas,... Memories or ordinary knowledge can not manifest truth,..they are nothing more than CONDITIONS repeating themselfs. A positive desire or wish arises from the Heart of ones Essence. The motive of one conscious of positive desire or wishing, is always that the subject arrive at its own harmonium. An old acquaintance, John Davies, use to say, the universe rearranges itself to accomodate our picture of reality. It, the universe, observes, through the Nature of Spirit, that is, the Law of Frequency, what we are fascinated with, and then brings us more of it. If we are fascinated with diversions, then Spirit will bring us more diversions. If we are fascinated with seeking, then Spirit will bring us more to seek. For the nature of the Law of Frequency is not "seek and you will find",...that's like saying joy is experienced through the need for joy,...seeking only precipatates more seeking, and the perception of lack precipitates more perceived lack. Suppose if we are fascinated with what we don't have, then Spirit will bring us more of what we perceive we don't have. However, if we are fascinated with the love that we are, then those beliefs which cloak that love will have to dissolve, for we cannot look in a mirror with a smile and get anything other then a smile reflected in return. The universe rearranges itself to bring us more of those things, on a frequency level, which we are fascinated with. Our frequency signature interaction works much the same on a complex levels as a simple ones. For example, if you have a single element and view it through a spectrograph, it has a particular frequency, its spectrographic signature. If we add several other various elements to the spectrographs field of vision, and continue to observe the original element, we will see that it attracts to itself, in quality and quanity, that which it is giving off. So, if we have a core emotional/belief issue in our lives, then on a subconscious level, we are broadcasting a "fascination", the core issue, and thus are attracting to ourselfs reflections/mirrors of that issue,...why,...so we can see it. And once we see it, it effortlessly dissolves and is no longer a belief/veil that obscures the real us; and our joy. 　

It would be a lucid dream.

What Buddha found, is that dukkha is a consequence of the desire for things to be other than then are,...the 6 senses cannot see things as they are,...and thus most people think the dream is real. To understand things as they really are, one must use a consciousness beyond sentient awareness.

I was raised Catholic and so all I knew when I was growing up was 2nd person relationship with God. I prayed and my family and community prayed so my first spiritual experiences were in this 2nd person context. One of the first things that struck me about Eastern wisdom when I began studying it was God as 1st person. I was blown away. God is inside of myself, not an anthropomorphized man in the clouds. Christians were stupid, creating a duality by projecting their fantasies onto an image that comforts them. This is what I thought. And I noticed how resistant most Christians I talked to were to the idea of the ultimate, true identity of Self as God. Later I came across various systems theories, Taoism, Spinoza ... God in 3rd person as the harmonious balance of everything and nothing. 2nd person looked even stupider now. I couldn't believe people prayed. What a fantasy. Buddhists are scientists. Christians are so lost in metaphors. Now I am starting to come full circle. I've noticed that many of the mystics I am drawn to the most, while having a deep experience and understanding of nonduality, still manage to preserve a sacred "other" to pour out poetry and song to. To Love. And it's not in a way that is creating duality. It's in a way that holds all three perspectives. It's from a 1st person nondual perspective that we can say, I Am God worshipping mySelf. And from a 3rd person perspective, we can see that we are an interdependent hologram in God's Mind. And also from the 2nd person, we can, mysteriously and actually (not metaphorically) relate with God even as God and inside God. Each of the three perspectives has a valid critique of the others. Because they are only perspectives they are limited. The ability to hold and fluidly move through all three is a fuller kind of enlightenment IMO than rejecting one because of it's shortcomings. I'm really seeing what Buber means ... I'm really thinking that it's only when we deeply respect and commune in 2nd person that we begin to treat "others" as holy. Think about it. If we are only hanging out in 1st person I Amness, than other people you relate with are not really real, they are just illusions dancing on the surface of Consciousness. Hopefully that perception also extends backward enough to include yourself or you are in big trouble, but either way, from this perspective, it's all just a dream. In 3rd person everything is objectifed. Maybe everything is a big energy field folding on itself, reflecting itself. You notice the alchemy of your chi field and another coming together and effecting themselves, the environment. But it's only in 2nd person that God can be seen as a mysterious "other". God as so free from duality, that God can move in and through duality unscathed. I think this is realy when we can see manifestation as a celebration of form instead of a dream or a mistaken perception. Maybe you think I am overthinking this one. It's simpler than this, Sean, stop thinking so much. But I am describing perspectives that already exist, not inventing filters. 1st, 2nd, 3rd person are really basic features of consciousness and it would make sense for perceptual blind spots to arise from avoiding one, strongly favoring another, etc. My concern though is how to have a 2nd person relationship with God that is not part of the problem. That is not in danger of becoming part of an ethnocentric, fundamentalist mindset. I mean, we've gotten pretty heated in even just this community disagreeing on merely theoretical considerations of emptiness vs. subtle body work, etc. ... imagine how much is added to the fire when people are communicating with God in different styles, using different names, feeling like they are being told things that they then interpret in their own tradition ... and they start trying to discuss these things with very few higher intellectual tools or distinctions. Sadly that's how wars start. Sean

Words are funny things. Most make up their own meanings to attach to words,...I generally use a dictionary,...but at times, the majority seems to contradict those definitions. To me, being means to exist, existence. Exist means to stand alone. As no phemomena stands alone, I assume that no phenomena exists or has being. And, as there are no conditions in the Unconditional, there is no being in the Unconditional either. To me, the term human beings describes a dream state, where similiar drempt objects delusionally interact with each other,...sort of playing a game of separation, although such separation never occurred. But yes,...I do not understand how you see the term being,...nor why you believe it is not a condition.