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Cool. I think I am starting to get my head around the different uses of the word Emptiness. I think of Logic as a sacred process of clearing the mind of obscurations and beliefs. May I ask, when you describe emptiness as not 'just nothin' do you think of it as a void or unmanifest potential or something different? I am not trying to start an argument or hijack the thread with Buddhist thought, I just want to better understand how the term is used... Profound experiences aren't they I definitely see there as being a ground of energy and awareness and potential behind or underlying the world as well, just to me it is all Empty. That to me is great news. I don't have to cling to any element within it, yet I get to enjoy it all. Kundalini certainly has similar effects when it reaches the higher centres, and i am in total agreement about the logic being useful for the rest of the brain... Longchenpa describes the spontaneous creativity of Empty Awareness/presence as being the primary source of all appearances. This would seem to go against E&DO teachings, accept that Nagajuna himself points out the even Dependent Arising is Inherently empty and has no true ultimate reality, but only represents the rules within the dream like worlds we Inhabit. So even Dependent Arising itself is spontaneously arising within Empty Awareness. For me the whole thing is Sacred, form, emptiness, and the fact the world does not even really exist yet still appears for us to enjoy...

It sounds like you are new to meditation, but don't worry, you wont always be able to have 'The Best' meditation every time. Even seasoned meditators still have days where things just wont flow and they just keep getting distracted. It's part of the process of learning about our minds... As for your question, CowTao reccomended me a book round a year ago called 'The Sun of Wisdom' by Khenpo Tsultrim Gyatso, which is a book on Nagajuna's emptiness teachings, and makes easy going of Nargajuna's normally very hard to read material [at least for me] Nagajuna is definatly not for everyone, as he is basicly a Logic machine which many people have a problem with. For me however he has been wonderful. He uses a series of logical steps to remove any faith or belief in the world as a 'real' thing, or anything other than a spontaneous dream like arising. The world doesn't have the sway over me like it used to have, as I can't take it as seriously any more... For some people, aproaching this through logic is very useful, as it helps get the thinking mind onside, rather than chucking up constant doubts about our deeper intuitive realisations... Seth.

Yes, I know what you are talking about. I have had those kinds of dreams as well. Seems like our subconscious (dreams) and our consciousness are both in control at the same time for a short period of time (between the dreams). I actually had a vivid dreams last night. Hehehe. A nice dream, a bunch of small animals all playing very well together - none eating each other. And yes, what you spoke to I think is what was behind the butterfly dream.

I wake up in the middle of mine but I don't actually wake up if you see what I mean. That's weird and not always entirely pleasant. Like last night I dreamt I visited this kind of farmhouse where the family who lived there had huge numbers of pregnant animals. Cats, dogs, fish, reptiles, you name it. Anyway, I was politely sitting there (babysitting) getting bombarded by kittens thinking 'man this is awful' and then I realised I was dreaming and I sort of went 'phew' realising it wasn't real but I was still in the dream. It just made it less annoying. Then I switched to another one and I found myself in a store trying on some very expensive orange silk-lined trousers. But I didn't like the hat that went with them and they were far too expensive, so I woke up, but didn't wake up. My take is that this is happening because I have been mucking around with my sense of subjectivity/objectivity through practices. I don't think it says what's 'real' although it might point to the idea that I decide what's real as soon as I decide what's not. But that's just an idea. As was the butterfly dream.

Yes, Chuang Tzu's butterfly dream. He never speaks to it again. But then there is the story of his walk in the park where he forgot himself. I'll point the story out to you if you don't know which one I am talking about. The thing with my dreams is that when I wake up I realize that I was dreaming. Every time - never fails regardless of how 'real' the dream seemed to be. I have never yet woke up from being awake. Therein lies the difference. Perhpas if I was a drug user or alcoholic I would have a different understanding. You see, in dreams I have actually been someone else. Now that is strange. I have also been an observer observing myself. During my waking hours that never happens unless it is a little intentional play game. But I still know that it is "I" who is doing it. My coffee cup never fails to hold the coffee I put into it. Imagine yourself a cup. Take that imaginary cup to the water faucet and draw water into it. It doesn't work, does it? The water splashes into the sink. That will happen every time. But take a 'real' cup to the same faucet and the cup will hold the water every time as long as you don not over-fill it. When I dream, which isn't that often, the dreams are never the same. Different and strange things happen. During my waking hours everything not living remains nearly the same, they actually seem to be the same over short periods of time. Consistency and reliability are keys to my physical reality. Now, when I day-dream, that's different. I am altering my objectivity with my subjectivity. (Did I stay within the response criteria? Hehehe.)

I kind of agree with what you said to Stig ... just because the universe is so much vaster and complicated than we can perceive doesn't make what we do perceive any less real. It's refreshing and good to think about everything being real instead of all the 'it's an illusion, man' stuff. We deal with what we have to deal with. I guess sometimes when we get intimations of the infinite beyond ... 'we just step back and bow our heads in humility' (who said that?) I still think its interesting to consider what it is that convinces us that things are real. For instance rather like Chuang Tzu's butterfly dream ... if we dream about a chair it seems completely real in the dream (or can do) but we also know a real chair when we see one. What's the difference? Did Chuang Tzu ever sort out whether he was a man dreaming of being a butterfly or visa versa ... I suspect he did really. So what is it about your chair that makes it not a dream chair? (You must answer the question using both sides of the paper and in less than 20,000 words. If you need a comfort break raise your hand and an adjudicator will guide you to the nearest facility. You may not use a calculator. Marks will be deducted for insane laughter or tears.)

Ah!, Steve's questioning my original question and the reason for it. The question was (and still is): Is anything really objective? That is to ask, Is the universe totally subjective? It doesn't exist if there is not an observer? You see, when folks get caught up in talking about spirituality they drift off into never-never land and pretend that everything is a dream - "Their Dream". They talk about oneness but it is only "Their" oneness and it is "They" who is having the experience and everyone and everything else is only a part of "Thier" dream. Well, I suggest that this is bull shit. The universe did very well before they were born and it will do just fine after they die. Sadly, they are not the center of the universe nor does their imagination create you and me. Outside of man's mind there is a real "objective" universe that existed for over 14 billion years without man needing to imagine it existed only in his mind. Subjectivity is a result of our dualistically thinking brain. It is we who attach insignificant meaning to objectivity. What is, is. Period. We and all things, living and not, are products of the processes of Nature. Now, I really wasn't trying to make distinctions between what is real naturally and what is real as a result of manufacture. That's just the way the dictionary defined the word. Yes, the coffee I have been drinking is real. I made a small pot earlier. Tastes good too.

No,...you labled yourself as someone who "shuns new, stimulating experiences and to avoid situations where the outcome is uncertain,...someone with little tolerance for ambiguity." You shouldn't be ashamed if you have an illness like conservativism,...by admitting it, I can adjust my posts to you,...just as I would speak differently to someone who was an alcoholic,...surely was not meant as an insult. Didn't you read the link,...based on 88 different psychological studies. Could there be anything, from a non-conservatives point of view, vague about mc² < c Energy is equal to the mass times the square of the so-called speed of light, which is always less than c, which is energy-less, mass-less and timeless. In other words, as simple as I can say it,..."you" are 186k mps, relatively speaking, slower than the Stillness of Undivided Light. This not a theory, a hypothesis, conjecture, etc,...it is what it is,...it is the changeless principal of duality, for as long as duality is view as duality. All aspects of Duality are perceived, slowed down, crystallized divided light,...a dream which effects its apparent motion upon the fulcrum of Undivided Light. Anything contrary to that is disinformation. "Matter is not made of matter." Hans-Peter Dürr "all matter is frozen or slowed down light" physicist David Bohm V

But,...has any of those mystics actually realized enlightenment? Or just found new ways to play within the dream? Has any theist ever ascended beyond what Robert Monroe called "religious terminus?' It is said, that only honesty can transcend above that dimension. V

As I explained above,...thinking is IRREFUTABLY in the past,...IRREFUTABLY! Your thinking that it is not, does not change that changeless fact. No one, anywhere, can think in the present. Second, from my observation, nothing is faster than the so-called-speed-of-light,...although I would not say that is an absolute truth. I can understand that the sciential minded like to dream up nonsense about energy/mass hidding itself in bubble and tricking Undivided Light that such a condition (the bubble)is not in the Unconditionality of the non-dimension of Undivided Light,...but it's surely ridiculous. I'm not saying that Consciousness cannot realize Undivided Light, that is, cross the threshold into the timeless, energyless, massless, Unconditionality of Clear Light,...but no amount of imagination (which arises from the skandhas)is going to. On another thread I wrote: Although most object-ive scientists often experience revulsion when encountering the idea of universal correlation, that is, the understanding that everything in nature is instantaneously connected with and affected by everything else, Bell's theorem showed experimentally that this is so. If A is instantly aware of where B is, even though they may be located at opposite ends of the universe, this implies that A and B, although perceptively different, have some fundamental sameness. At the so-called-speed-of-light,...nothing travels any distance, in any time, and thus there is no need for speed. Two Baylor scientists are playing with fantasies based upon a String Theory that doesn't exist. This is why I mentioned in the 'What is Light' thread that it is doubtful that science will ever get it,...especially not filtered through their current belief systems. Other than that, I'm not going to repeat here was was posted there. I will say, that it would be of the utmost importance for you to ponder on "thinking",...I worked through it in a univsersity setting some 24 years ago,...even had access to sensory deprivation tanks,...one cannot think in the present. It's irrefutable. With all respect,...If you cannot grasp that, you will not uncover the next level. V

That's an excellent point,...always refer to the first Absolute Bodhichitta,..."treat everything you perceive as a dream" Of course, while in that dream, "It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong." - Voltaire V

Scotty I am not interested in providing examples. I made an observation perhaps to encourage others to consider the idea. I dont know if there are "people" who may think one way or another I am just one person wondering out loud. Speaking of governments, speaking about the type you can know and see is also not useful in this discussion. It is my supposition that there are forces which profit by helping to keep the general populace asleep. Just as I strongly believe there are those who profit from keeping our (American) education system from being fully functional and would even prefer less opportunity for education and critical thinking. Therefore to address any motives which might exist in my hypothetical scenario I would posit that the rapid dissemination of effective mind/body/spirit training resulting in greater awakening not to mention health, well-being and critical thinking while being unarguably a good thing may be against certain agendas. But it's OK. I am just dreaming this up to entertain myself. Part of my ongoing thought game about a fantasy/thriller/spiritual/mystery work of fiction. But it's all a dream anyway so...

That's awesome. I fully missed all of that in the "Three Kinds of Spiritual Teachings" thread. I easily recall my own emancipation from the god meme,...the exact date and time,...and how afterwards there was this near unexpressable beauty seeing myself in the mirror, as so much baggage was lifted from observing that one core issue, through which it all effortlessly dissolved. Although you could possibly contribute some great insights to this discussion, my communication style is not going to change. More and more I find that Heart-Mind vocabulary is very, very specific,...and very different from what people think it should be. So, in your own words, you'll uncover no liberation through any dialogue I offer, no matter has wise or heretical it is. I'm not a proper communicator. But I am, as Vajrayogini shares, radically honest. Speaking of which, did you catch the post where I link the Vajrayogini song? Just click on this homepage and listen. http://www.diamondbodyyoga.com/ Is that you I've been waiting for you Quietly, comes the Buddha wake up all along awake in your dreams wake up quietly she watches you sleep gently,...sweetly In your lucid dreams awake Quietly, comes the buddha all along inside of me Suddenly I wake from the dream lucid reality yes she's smiling at me Singing laughing at me dancing with me ...singing I had a dream oh my dream finally, I've become the buddha All along awake in this dream finally compassion is real it's lessening the open-hearted reign Laughter reigns laughter sings glistening Your heart, it sings written and sung by Jenn Howey V

It is interesting how people come to their own ideas about light.,...even more interesting that people have their own ideas about light. My own inquiry into light arose from an "empty mind" meditation. Observing without thought is a whole discussion in itself, and so is the non-physical experience, although whenever I'd experience light in that way, there was first an event of expansion, as if the body becomes infinite. I've wondered if that was where the mistake was assumed, that when enteing the so-called speed-of-light that mass becomes infinite,... I cannot believe that Einstein just dream up relativity, he somehow experienced it. My own research into light, predominately from a Freethought Vajrayana perspective mixed with a strong sacred geometry (incl. holography and enneagram) background, mirrored the book 'Secret of Light' which I recommended for this thread. That's pretty much been a life-pattern of mine,...have an experience, draft it out on paper, and then find that someone else has pioneered the samething, although coming to the same conclusions in a different way. As for Walter Russell, I was, and still am, amazed with how far such a Christian came. Anyway,...yes, it is great to "hear more from other people" about their ideas of light,...but I'd also like to hear from those whom light has given ideas. V

Thank you, Lienshan. Here's a sample of what the Eranos I Ching (Rudolf Ritsema and Shantena Augusto Sabbadini) does: 24 Return -- Fu The situation described by this hexagram is characterized by the re-emergence of something past, returning to a previous time or place or retracing a path in order to correct one's mistakes. Image of the situation Return. Growing. Emerging, entering, without affliction. Partners come, without fault. Reversing: returning (to) one's dao. (The) seventh day comes return. Harvesting: possessing directed going. Fields of meaning: Return, FU: go back, turn or lead back; recur, reappear, come again; restore, renew, recover; return to an earlier time or place. Ideogram: step and retrace a path. Grow, HENG: heavenly influence pervading and nourishing all things; prosper, succeed, expand, develop; effective, favorable; quality of summer and South, second stage of the Time Cycle. With pronunciation XIANG: offer a sacrifice; offer a gift to a superior; accept, enjoy. And so on for each word... then come Patterns of Wisdom (words in brackets absent from the original text, added by translators very tentatively, different in fonts to make sure the reader does not mistake the stylistic organization toward a sentence that is easier on the uppermost crust of one's neocortex for the real thing -- the real thing, in the meantime, is processed a level below, at least, and on several levels of meaning simultaneously... They say interpreting the images of the I Ching is like interpreting dreams -- complete certainty is laughable, but getting the drift of a dream is an innate skill all undamaged humans either have or can learn.) Thunder Located (in the) earth('s) center. Return. (The) earlier kings used culminating sun (to) bar (the) passages. Bargaining sojourners (used culminating sun) not (to) move. (The) crown prince (used culminating sun) not (to) inspect (on all) sides. with the following Field of Meanings for the "earlier kings": XIAN WANG: ideal rulers of old; the golden age, primal time; mythical sages in harmony with nature and with one of the meanings of "bargain" being "hour before sunrise and sunset." This is one of the delicious hidden double-talk inner metaphors of the I Ching (little by little you start discerning them with practice... and suspecting there's thousands -- maybe millions -- maybe billions! and there's triple-talk and quadruple-talk ones there too... perhaps trillions?..). So, if we take "hour before sunrise and sunset" for the second-layer meaning of the double-meaningful "bargaining sojourners," and "harmony with nature" for the "earlier kings," and also notice that "crown prince" may or may not be "crown prince" because the field of meanings includes "empress, mother of a prince..." ...but at this point you have to be dreaming the I Ching dream of time and space and it's really easy to get lost in a dream, as everyone knows, so studying the I Ching is the art of lucid dreaming within its dreams of time and space... then doing something that will affect the waking reality. And I've done it many times but still it sends shivers down my spine every time. (Anyone has a shivering emoticon? )

For one, that response could be called trolling. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet) Second, the thread is intended to about real honesty, not ad hominem. Ad hominem is when one attacks someones character, rather than dialoguing on the question/argument,subject. Seth does present a good example of dishonesty, that of predisposition. He exclaims, "I have not seen you exhibit the slightest trace of any of these qualities in all your boring and Illogical dialogues here." Fair enough. For a different point of view, I have purposefully used highly researched and peer reviewed material throughout my posts,...some by well known figures, like Ki Master Koichi Tohei, Justin Stone, and various PhD's from Harvard, MSU, and Stanford. So, I'm quite comfortable with the accuracy. I was wishful that this thread could be troll free,...but already got at least 3 post on the first page. It would be so awesome if Seth really was "deeply Interested or even obsessed with 'Truth'" Really, really awesome. But he appears to have bowed-out,...prey to his predispositions. It takes a certain amount of waking up to seriously inquire about truth. Jetsun seems to have broke through, but most (speaking of people in the world) don't even want to know. For them, they merely desire dependable descriptions of an objective world that they consider intelligible. Waking up is not necessarily pleasant: you get to see why all this time, you chose to sleep. When you wake up the first thing you will see is Reality does not exist for you, you exist for it. Shocking as it is when you let it in, there is rest. You do not have to labor anymore to hold together a reality that does not exist; forcing something to be real that is not real. You and this life you have been living are not real ... In letting it in, even through the shock... pain... shattering, there is rest. Reality is when all you want to know is what is true ... just so that you can let it in and be true. Reality is not a safe place for you - the you that you have created. It is the only place where you would die; where there is no room for your hopes, your dreams. Once you have let it in, once you begin to re-awaken; to let Reality wake you up, nothing can get it out. That is the beginning of your end. Waking up can be much more painful than the agony of your dream, but waking up is real ... RdeR

Yes, VJ, i am familiar with the reference. The first time i encountered a similarly patterned dawning of this experience, quite like Scotty's, was back in 96. It was during an intensive Yamantaka meditation retreat. I could surmise it as the complete dropping off of all sense of self and other, a fusion of self with all background phenomena - i can recall now that i was postured on a cushion, eyes opened in a kind of Dzogchen stare, just resting the gaze on no particular object, remaining as awareness itself, when gradually this subtle sense of spaciousness simply expanded, and everything contained within the visual field became a hazy whiteness, with beams of rainbow-colored lights piercing thru this haze, and into everything around, including this thing called 'my body'. There was no real, tangible sensation at that particular point. There was no anticipation of anything, and the moment just took care of itself, without a 'me' to direct attention to any particular awareness of any sensation. It was only after the visual field returned to observing all the 'normal' things that made me think that i had 'made it' hahaha. Would this be a fair reference to your understanding of 'emptying the basis'? I later bounced this experience off some of the other retreatants, and also with the retreat leader, and was told its nothing to get too excited over, and that it will happen again and again in line with certain visualization practices undertaken. Was also told that a natural progression from releasing strong clinging to selfhood will also yield similar types of experiences. Later, i got an opportunity to relay this to my mentor, a tulku whom i shall call R, who explained that she was the one who 'empowered' me to that particular unfolding, with the hope that i could learn to rest repeatedly in that non-state as and when it happens again. She encouraged that i should raise awareness around the 'self dropping' part of it, as this will train on, if the practices are kept, to remain more and more lucid during the 'clear light' phase of falling asleep before dreams begin. So apparently its not dreams that we should be lucid about, but that space before dreams begin. She also said that these are the 'symbol-producing functions' of contemplative awareness, and those who has the good fortune to be given Rigpa transmissions will eventually have to get used to them, and repeatedly habituate these functions while learning not to grasp after any of the experiences. This was also a note made by Scotty as well, so the similarities are quite astounding indeed! :) Not too long ago, my partner got hold of a book called Beyond Words. I was flipping thru it recently.... found this quote below, and my heart just dissolved into orgasmic bliss (i'm sure you know the feeling!) :lol: "When one falls asleep, one becomes disengaged from the karmic traces of the material body, the karmic traces of vision, and the karmic traces of of mental functioning. These karmic traces, during the waking state, manifest as one's material body, the external appearances one perceives, and the functioning of one's mind respectively. Why do we speak of being dis-engaged? ... From one's falling asleep right up to the moment when one begins to dream, there is no functioning of the mind and one finds oneself in the real condition of existence. In this, one will experience to a certain degree a merging with what is called the natural, clear light." - - Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

Apparently you are seeking some sort of rise,...as for rapist,...as I spent a few lines to explain,...is something quite common among those "sending" various prayers and hopes to others whom they feel are somehow lacking. So,...in other words,...if I cut out my remaining eye, I can rejoin your valley of the blind,...for only in your blind world are things seen as they are intended to be seen. Interesting paradigm. If you could offer housing and an allowance with that, you may get a few takers. Sorry though,...I'm not available. I much prefer the truth. That's why you doubt what I post,...and rather spin off with your wild distractions and diversions. The truth is quite ...frightening for those as yourself, the fear of loss,...the loss of who you "think" you are. Does that mean I'm better or worse than anyone else,...of course not,...except in yours and CowTao's prideful eyes,...I simply lucked out,...I love truth more than anything else. Waking up is not necessarily pleasant: you get to see why all this time, you chose to sleep. When you wake up the first thing you will see is Reality does not exist for you, you exist for it. Shocking as it is when you let it in, there is rest. You do not have to labor anymore to hold together a reality that does not exist; forcing something to be real that is not real. You and this life you have been living are not real ... In letting it in, even through the shock... pain... shattering, there is rest. Reality is when all you want to know is what is true ... just so that you can let it in and be true. Reality is not a safe place for you - the you that you have created. It is the only place where you would die; where there is no room for your hopes, your dreams. Once you have let it in, once you begin to re-awaken; to let Reality wake you up, nothing can get it out. That is the beginning of your end. Waking up can be much more painful than the agony of your dream, but waking up is real ...JdeR

Hey Aaron, not OT (yet) is a POV ever 'purely' psychological? Or is it only ever that? Somewhere in the middle? As far as GIH's dream goes (to get back on track) and as far as I can remember, the emotions around the rat and maybe the setting are also highly important if you're going to interpret. I'm not even sure that 'subjectivity' functions the same way in dreams as it does when awake. And especially not if you've been fiddling with your sense of subjectivity through practices IMO. I can't say IME because subjectivity feels the same whether I'm dreaming or not but I can't say for sure that it is the same. So GIH, the rat might be you! And you're trying to nix yourself with a gun but you can't. Try buddhism instead

Hello Goldisheavy, from a purely psychological point of view, dream analysis is entirely subjective. I would however attempt to discuss this dream from a spiritual point of view. The rat, from my understanding, has killed more people than any other creature on the face of the earth, aside from man himself (actually it was the ticks on the rats, but lets not quibble). The idea that the creature that comes to you is a rat probably has little to do with that, but I thought it was worth mentioning. For me the rat is the trickster, the thief, the pest, essentially the critter that embodies all those devious qualities we've come to look at as bad. When you view it as that, then the creature that's coming to you over and over is a devious little trickster, one that just one go away. Now the fact that you can't get rid of it, no matter how hard you try, and that you're unwilling to kill it, tells me that you haven't come to terms with it. Is the rat your shadow? Is the rat someone else? I couldn't tell you, nor will I advise you on how to approach it. You can make that decision for yourself. Aaron

Wow, an enjoyable GIH post Sorry GIH I'm kidding. I enjoy most of yours. Anyway, it's your subconscious, isn't it? So this rat business is your own to sort out. Or maybe if those dream dictionaries have any sway then it might prove the existence of 'collective (sub) consciousness which would throw a handy argument your way for the Mind being elsewhere - and in which case it's not your rat as such, but a rat you've been given. Or have you been inspired by TaoMeow's post ? I was! I dreamt about strange flying objects last night. One type was an entirely new design and another was just 'too stupid looking to fly'. I suspect it was the future but I can't be sure. I've had a few 'flying saucer' and 'earth invasion' dreams over the years. In most, I wake up after trying to tell people (in vain) what's going on. I'm trying to figure out whether dream interpretation ought to use symbol dictionaries and if so, which one(s) and why or whether the person should go the 'what it means to me' route. Maybe try both and see what happens?

a "lucid dream" doesn't give you superpowers, depending on what those words means to you. Some people say a dream in which you know it is a dream. Lucidness, however, gives you awareness which you can use to witness higher potentials. Wether in dreams or not in dreams. Alot of people fail to do what they want even within lucid dreams. Because their reality is stuck in desire, not lucidness. Once you actually stop desiring and change reality from desiring to actually seeing that which you initially wanted, or atleast the potential of it, then you will have succeeded in waking up.

That is very true. I've found the focus on dreaming is useless. You have to increase your awareness before your dreams also becomes more vivid and thus lucid. Once you have a real good vivid wake initiated lucid dream, you will never be able to say "I'm not dreaming, 100%" never anymore. Because in the dreams you say the same thing... In the dream you say "this is not a dream, not a question about that." And you say it every dream when you ask yourself if you are dreaming. The desire to recognize the illusions will not help that much. Infact, I believe that lucid dreaming is only available to those who no longer DESIRE it, but are actually already lucid enough not to desire. Every dream is vivid and lucid, but without awareness the vividness is either never perceived or reached to its full potential. Everything is a dream, even your desire to lucid dream. But it is hard to keep seeing the dream, to wake up infinite times. People get tired and wish to just continue to sleep. You really have to wake up. Even now. If you wake up atleast 5 times during the day, there is a much higher chance of lucid dreaming in the night. There are infinite illusions. Every waking means one less. For example, you might be listening to your own voice right now, as I do when I'm reading. Or you could wake up in a way as to you use other senses, or change your perception of your reality. For example, view your monitor from another perspective then your current one and observe.

Thank you! 3. What I have come to believe is that if you are going to access a different timeline, it will let you know that you might... that you can, you should, you have a chance, you have a need, etc.. You will get some nudges from there. E.g., I've been working on gaining access to a timeline which I initially started dimly recalling for the way it smells -- olfactory memory triggering jing-level memory, not personal and not genetic and not even DNA-level -- inclusive of these but spanning far, far beyond -- billions of years. Jing has access to that level, in fact most of it exists on that level. Jing and cosmic memory are synonymous interchangeable notions. So, OK, from either a different time (a past life or a future one) or a different timeline (a parallel one), I remember the way the steppe smells when set on fire. When wormwood burns, it smells of -- um, moxa. That's why burning moxa in this life, smelled for the first time, triggered that memory from a different one. Well, nothing would happen if I just noticed that "this smells familiar and tantalizingly so, beyond just the smell of burning moxa," but then I grab the spontaneous trigger and add the learned tools of cultivation. I add meditation. I add dream-consciousness access techniques. I add past life regression techinques (which can be used for parallel and future lives too). The trick, the difference between it working and it not really working, is to find the spontaneous personal "gateway." I suspect everybody has those but we aren't taught to notice, much less use them -- we are taught to ignore such things. Well, that's why the majority of the population does not time travel. So, the discovery that the smell of burning moxa triggers a memory of a life where there's steppe wormwood on fire is mine alone -- no one else can discover THIS timeline using THIS method, or others I've gained some access to. You have your own to which no one else has access. Well, actually I don't know if that's true, maybe people move through timelines in clusters (Edgar Cayce asserted they do reincarnate in more or less simultaneous clusters -- families, nations, races -- because of collective karma shared by all members of a family, nation, race, etc.. -- species for that matter ). But personally I have no access to someone else's jing-level memories, only my own (well, that's not exactly true either, but I can't explain in few words and don't want to spend many), and these are rare and precious. They are triggered by whatever "nudges" them and then they get somewhat expanded in a dream spontaneously following a trigger, and then it's up to me to put two and two together and start working on gaining more access. So, e.g., the technique I suggested earlier -- "look at your feet in your dream's eye, see what you're wearing, watch where your feet are going" -- is something I used with moxa, and I saw boots of leather as soft as kid gloves, crimson in color and embossed with gold, and the word for the material was "safian." I knew I was someone wearing safian boots. That was the beginning of a beautiful "know thyself" journey that is still going on. I can't tell you more about that woman, but whatever she's doing with her life has no applications for my current one -- none. It's just great to know her for a part of me, is all. There's no way I can "use" her, or she, me. It's more like... if you see a magnificent landscape at dawn and it takes your breath away, it does something for you, to you, through you -- but you can't "use" it, you can just... well, experience it and be changed favorably for the experience. So, the best use I've found so far for timelines I can access is like that. It's a bit like finding your lost family... it makes you more complete, but a child separated from her family is not looking to "use" them once she's found them -- just to be herself, and "herself" means "part of my family." The flower of your timelines is your family in a sense -- the family of one who is also infinite. It's just cool to get to know some of its members, for its own sake.

Could be, that's an option I'll look into. Thanks for the suggestion! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Everything, It would be lovely to be able to sleep for 10 hours...generally, I don't have that much time to allow for sleep. I'm lucky if I get 8, only five or six of which I actually sleep (again, if I'm lucky). Also, my sleeping hours are during the day because I work from 10 pm to 8 am, which is the primary reason it's so hard for me to sleep. (I'd find I have noticed that I tend to remember dreams much more readily at the end of my sleep period. Especially if I wake up and go back to sleep, it's much easier to slip into a dream and remember it. Perhaps it's time to dust off some of those lucidity practices and see if I can make use of that last period of sleep.