Search the Community

Hey Aaron, I don't think that science and Buddhism are in the least incompatible. Science's main philosophy is emptiness, never deciding that you are right, just closer to a useful working model. Certainty is the death of innovation, of creativity, in science. The goal of science (as I understand it) is not to become certain, but to explore. Einstein did his work, in what he called a day dream, trying to imagine what the universe would seem like, from the perspective of a photon. The concept of Relativity, BTW, is about surrendering certainty, saying: there is no correct or absolute viewpoint. Testing, of course, seeks to reduce vagueness, and increase accuracy but the emotional aspect of I insist that this is right, is anathema to science. I agree that emptiness is not necessarily getting rid of ideas or beliefs (I certainly don't know how to live without them), although I they think many do fade with time, because they mean less and less. But I do think that detachment is very much about surrender of certainty. What is letting go of attachment to an outcome? It's letting go of the certainty that one outcome is the right one. Certainty invents good and bad, right and wrong. If you really think about it, certainty is an emotional quality, more than an intellectual one. Certainty is the clenching that says: it must/must not be! I insist!

Cat Pillar, Dreaming is a form of reality and a type of experience. Reality and experiences take on many dimensions and can be explored at many levels. Rather than worrying about a theory as to whether the reality within dreaming can affect the experience of waking, just ask yourself what it has meant in your own life. If your experiences in dreams have disturbed you than that's the important information you need to know to begin to heal yourself. Just as dreams have the power to be painful, they can also have the power to be healing. Just as your waking life is affected by dream, so can you affect your dream life through the waking life. The veil between what we call each of these states is as thin and permeable as the blink of an eye.

it is not "almost"... It IS a unity. While appearing, it is empty of inherent existence... While empty, appearances are diverse. Appearance-emptiness, like an illusion, like a dream, like a magician's trick.

1. Why does it matter? Do you think the first brush stroke of a painting would somehow disclose the essence of the painter? What it matters is that there is an aspect of reality that you are ignoring, and this has its outcomes. There is a time at which this might be very useful, but there is a time at which it is harmful. It also matters because you claim that appearance and Undivided Light are separate. If this is so, and Undivided Light is the only thing that is real, then how is it that appearance arises? Your account does not take into account an aspect of everyone's experience, including your own, and so it is very partial, which is kinda opposite of your claim to Wholeness. 3.No,...the confusion appears to be that you do not understand opposites. The sum of opposites is always zero,...just as all negatives added to all positives is 0. In the reality of duality, the inbalance of opposites is the condition for endless manifestation. What would occur if a see-saws lever was in balance,...motion would cease. All phenonena is in motion. Stop the motion, and all phenomena ends. Opposites in life are not like abstract opposites. They are not like mathematical sums, in which there are only two types of values. Zero in life is all that we see, all that we have seen, all that we might see, and beyond. It is many dimensions, many dualities, many ways that balance can be explored. It is appearance. Now in appearance there are local variations, local imbalances, and this causes motion in many levels of existence, if any motion can be said to happen, which it can. The motion is not ultimate, but it is apparent. Overall balance in no way denies local imbalance, and in no way denies appearance. It is the balance that allows the appearance. Lets take another example. Humans have many different desires. I would say we have many different desires, but I can't speak for you. There are desires for food, sex, acceptance, survival, control, peace, love, friendship, to express compassion, to know, to gnow, for truth, for energy, for death, for happiness, for the ending of desire, to desire more... it goes on and on. Not all of these desires oppose one another, but at times they appear to be opposed, such as a desire for sex and a desire for social acceptance, if that sex is not socially acceptable. Indulging in the sex can lead to loss of social acceptance, which then could reduce the sex. In other situations, indulging in the sex can increase social acceptance, and lead to an increase in sex. Some desires are pretty much directly opposed, such as the desire for survival and the desire for death. As long as these desires are all operating and keep themselves relatively in check, then a human can live a "normal" life. They don't die early, and they can have a variety of experiences. If one desire becomes out of balance and dominates the others, such as a desire for alcohol to the exclusion of all else, it usually has a very negative effect, and the person can die early, and then that particular manifestation, that particular appearance, is ended early. Imbalance ends the appearance. The greater the imbalance, the quicker the appearance ends. Balance maintains it. In this sense every desire can be said to serve the others, because they give the context within which the others can be experienced. Some people like to try and boil all desires down to one of the desires, and for most of them you could have a compelling argument that all of the other desires are really just forms of that one desire. This is not because they really are just forms of one given desire, but because they interpenetrate and make one another possible. So, in life, balance is essential for appearances. It is imbalance that ends appearances. Conceptually, and experientially, it seems that all of this revolves around nothing, but I haven't known all aspects of all things individually, or done the sum of them all, so this is just another seeming as far as I'm concerned. Even if everything seems to to disappear, or it just directly is "gnown" to be nothing. More seeming, more "gnowing". 4 Yes, the idea or concept of the Unconditional is thought (ego), but that does not deny the reality of the Unconditional. Nor does the idea of the non-separation of the conditional and the Unconditional being thought (ego) deny the reality of the non-separation of the conditional and the Unconditional. Quantum cosmologists, Steven Hawking and Jim Hartle said that since time loses characteristics that separate it from space, the concept of a beginning in time becomes meaningless. That is to say, there was no Big Bang, no singularity, no creation, no Creator, no beginning nor end, because there is no time. Enlightened Bodhisattva's been saying that for a few thousand years through understanding the Unconditional. And this in no way denies the appearance of time. Or else how could Quantum cosmologists talk about any of this at all? 6. Why are humans so arrogant to believe that the universe would not be without them. Were there humans before dinosaurs? Will there be an earth if Christian Fascists (Tea Party patriots) take over the planet and annilate everyone for Jesus. Is non-sentient consciousness depended on humanity. I never mentioned the universe. I asked if Quantum Physics could be without a sentient being. Quantum Physics is not the universe. It is a model for how particular aspects of the universe work. It is a particularly successful model in some domains, but not in all domains, not even all of the scientific domains, let alone the non-scientific domains. For example, can Quantum Physics make meaningful predictions about compassion or love? Even if it could make accurate predictions in all known domains, it should in no way be construed to be the universe. There is a viewpoint, however, that the universe as a whole has a wave function and that this could never have collapsed into an observable universe without an observer. This observer, or consciousness can be viewed as an inherent aspect of any wave function, which explains the universe's ability to collapse itself into the big bang (assuming I have any idea what I'm talking about. I got this from a youtube clip with physicists talking. ) It is one view. It wouldn't be dependent on humanity, though perhaps you could say more about the apparent division between sentient and non-sentient consciousness, and explain if sentient consciousness can actually be separated from non-sentient consciousness. 7. Yes, Unborn Awareness can be observed, just not through the skandhas. The 6 senses can only observe motion,...so obviously, the observer of the Unborn Awareness, that is, awareness beyond belief, is not of the 6 senses. Nothing can be GNOWN through the skandhas,...but only KNOWN. Gnowledge does not arise from the brain,...only knowledge arises from the brain. And no,...time is not needed to recognize the Present,...although through time, the absence of the Present can be recognized. So it cannot be observed in any of the ways that we normally use the word observe; it cannot be known, but it can be gnown. I'll go along with that as long as we both recognize that no formulation of that "gnown" can be owned, grasped, or in any other way held onto, except in a weird twisted way that appears to reduce the "gnowing". With regard to Present, how do you know that time is not necessary? How can something be recognized if there was not a time at which it was not recognized? Re-cognize. Sure there is gnowing before time, but to re-cognize, there must be a moment in which it is not cognized... hence the necessity of time. 8 First,...I'm not into beliefs. Beliefs deny, suppress, disconnect, and disempower. Generally speaking, I'm with you there. Fixation of beliefs eventually does not serve, if it ever serves. One can live passionately without fixation. Through awakened consciousness, the dream of the skandhas is still there, just as the stars continue to be above us during the day,...awakened consciousness is like standing on the lever of a see-saw over the fulcrum, versus anywhere else on the lever. Those that can stand on the lever above the fulcrum 24/7 or called Buddha. We're getting close. That fulcrum can be seen to be the entire lever, without leaving the fulcrum. Or so my experiences are suggesting. I am not at the point where this is my conscious experience 24/7. This is the source of unlimited depth of potential realization, despite the fact that everything is inherently realized, just as it is. 9 I view the Short Path from a different perspective,...somewhat like this: http://wisdomsgolden...s/23/5#section1 That is a long article that you linked to. Could you summarize your position? I am familiar with the Short or Direct Path. It has been my primary approach, especially in the last several years, and also before I knew anything much of Spirituality. A fairly decent summation of the Short or Direct Path as I experience it can be found in this verse: Chapter 22 (Red Pine's translation of the Taoteching): Partial means whole crooked means straight hollow means full worn-out means new less means content more means confused thus the sage holds onto the one to use in guiding the world not watching himself he appears not displaying himself he flourishes not flattering himself he succeeds not parading himself he leads because he doesn't compete no one can compete against him the ancients who said partial means whole came close indeed becoming whole depends on this The last line is essential, but so is the first, and all the ones inbetween. The only words that I don't like so much are "holds onto", but I guess they can have their use in my experience too. 10. Undivided Light is not separate from appearances,...appearances are separated from Undivided Light, which precipitates their motion to unite with Undivided Light, although it NEVER can, because the unreal can never enter the real. Energy is simply the unbalanced, dissymphonic continuum of the desire to return to source, which it never really left. I would agree with the first part if you phrased it as "appearances can appear to be separated from Undivided Light". You judge energy and desire harshly, but, yes it never really left. What occurs, conceptually speaking, when one crosses the threshold of the so-called speed of light? It's helpful for perspective,...because from Light's point of view (which travels no distance, in no time, and thus has no need for speed) we are relatively 186k mps slower than the Stillness of Undivided Light. In other words, everything in duality's reality is in the past. The perceived present, as in your looking at these words, is the past. No object can be seen in the Present, because no objects exist in the Present. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Its not bad news. As per what you said above, the past never left the Present.

1. Why does it matter? Do you think the first brush stroke of a painting would somehow disclose the essence of the painter? 3.No,...the confusion appears to be that you do not understand opposites. The sum of opposites is always zero,...just as all negatives added to all positives is 0. In the reality of duality, the inbalance of opposites is the condition for endless manifestation. What would occur if a see-saws lever was in balance,...motion would cease. All phenonena is in motion. Stop the motion, and all phenomena ends. 4 Yes, the idea or concept of the Unconditional is thought (ego), but that does not deny the reality of the Unconditional. Quantum cosmologists, Steven Hawking and Jim Hartle said that since time loses characteristics that separate it from space, the concept of a beginning in time becomes meaningless. That is to say, there was no Big Bang, no singularity, no creation, no Creator, no beginning nor end, because there is no time. Enlightened Bodhisattva's been saying that for a few thousand years through understanding the Unconditional. 6. Why are humans so arrogant to believe that the universe would not be without them. Were there humans before dinosaurs? Will there be an earth if Christian Fascists (Tea Party patriots) take over the planet and annilate everyone for Jesus. Is non-sentient consciousness depended on humanity. 7. Yes, Unborn Awareness can be observed, just not through the skandhas. The 6 senses can only observe motion,...so obviously, the observer of the Unborn Awareness, that is, awareness beyond belief, is not of the 6 senses. Nothing can be GNOWN through the skandhas,...but only KNOWN. Gnowledge does not arise from the brain,...only knowledge arises from the brain. And no,...time is not needed to recognize the Present,...although through time, the absence of the Present can be recognized. 8 First,...I'm not into beliefs. Beliefs deny, suppress, disconnect, and disempower. Through awakened consciousness, the dream of the skandhas is still there, just as the stars continue to be above us during the day,...awakened consciousness is like standing on the lever of a see-saw over the fulcrum, versus anywhere else on the lever. Those that can stand on the lever above the fulcrum 24/7 or called Buddha. 9 I view the Short Path from a different perspective,...somewhat like this: http://wisdomsgoldenrod.org/notebooks/23/5#section1 10. Undivided Light is not separate from appearances,...appearances are separated from Undivided Light, which precipitates their motion to unite with Undivided Light, although it NEVER can, because the unreal can never enter the real. Energy is simply the unbalanced, dissymphonic continuum of the desire to return to source, which it never really left. What occurs, conceptually speaking, when one crosses the threshold of the so-called speed of light? It's helpful for perspective,...because from Light's point of view (which travels no distance, in no time, and thus has no need for speed) we are relatively 186k mps slower than the Stillness of Undivided Light. In other words, everything in duality's reality is in the past. The perceived present, as in your looking at these words, is the past. No object can be seen in the Present, because no objects exist in the Present. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. V

You may pop into realization of wholeness by denying Yin and accepting Yang, or vice versa, but this is only because within both Yin and Yang is the Whole. You do not succeed in escaping either Yin or Yang, but eventually truly fail, and cannot escape admitting the inescapability of Wholeness. You might then call this Wholeness "True Yang" or "True Yin", but this would only be an arbitrary word choice and not reflect an actual state. There is a point of view in which nothing ever happened, but this is only one side of a duality, the other side being that there is only things happening. The point of view in which nothing ever happened can be thought of as a fulcrum, but inherent within this fulcrum is the happening. So for your analogy to be correct, the fulcrum would need to be within the see-saw and the see-saw would need to be within the fulcrum. The Unconditional depends on conditions for context, or else we could not know it as Unconditional. Conditions are implied by the Unconditional and the Unconditional is implied by conditions. They cannot be separated, and determinations of within and without don't actually apply, since there is no separation by means of which one could say that one is within the other. To say they are within each other is to speak of their interpenetration-- inseparability. Turns out I was wrong about what the colors represent in the Mandlebrot set. The black represents starting values, or locations, that remain bounded, or finite, as they are continually fed back into the equation that is used to determine the colors of the set. The colors represent different speeds at which given starting values escape to infinity as they are continually fed back into the equation. I actually like that arrangement a little bit more, with different grades of approaching infinity on the outside, but it still really boils down to the same thing, an interaction between the infinite and the finite, or the bound and the unbound, or Yin and Yang, if you will. (For anyone who isn't familiar with the Mandlebrot set. The title of the video is not meant to be a dig, Vmarco, just happens to be the best short clip I could find ) The infinite is an implication of zero (a/0=infinity, where a=any non-zero number. To be simple, 1/0=infinity.) I believe elsewhere you have equated zero with Undivided Light, which you call the fulcrum. You say that this fulcrum cannot be found anywhere in the set, but is only suggested, such as when the set "repeats" itself. The set only "repeats" itself at the borders of the finite and the infinite, where they meet and mingle. Time can be thought of as an experience of the finite, and eternity can be thought of as an experience or "gnowing" of that which gives rise to the infinite (i.e. zero). Zero implies the infinite, and the infinite implies the finite, so there can be no experience, or "gnowing" without all of the above. By analogy to the Mandlebrot set, one cannot find the fulcrum without either the infinite or the finite, since the infinite gives context to the finite and vice versa, and it is only through their interaction that we might recognize the deeper fulcrum. This gets back to the question that I asked you before, and you did not respond to: If it were not for human-centric appearance, how could you have recognized something non-human-centric? Or, if it were not for time, how could you have recognized eternity? Don't you find it interesting that you happened upon it in a moment of surrender, and not a moment of denying divided light? Apparently the divided light did not obscure it then, since it arose right in the middle of the divided experience. Is that not so? Yes, it is beyond, but it also includes. If it did not include, how could "gnowledge" of the Whole arise during an experience of any of its parts? If it "gnows" on its own, independent of the parts, then how is it that parts appear? If the parts are an appearance within it, then how is it separate from the appearance? To say that they don't exist is only a point of view and makes no sense, since there is something that we are talking about, even if it is only an appearance. The appearance or the concept or the illusion exists, or else we could not talk about it. Existence is the Dao, which cannot be named. But more concretely, with that caveat, existence is the capacity to experience. The dream of life is an aspect of existence. Balance does not dissolve. It unfolds. See the Mandlebrot set example above. It is the extremes that dissolve into fixed meaninglessness, non-life, though not really. Can Undivided Light really be covered? By what? How did it get separate? If you will, please check out this chapter from the Daodejing, for more from Laozi, pertinent to our conversation and efforts: Chapter 77. The eleventh word should be "down", not "sown". Finding the long and giving it to the world is a good analogy for the going and the return, don't you think? Its non-existence is an extreme view, as discussed above. --- After all the points have been made, let me paint a simpler picture. It often happens that we spend the bulk of our lives fixated upon the divided light, and when we relax this fixation (when we surrender, as you said, or when we let go of effort and remain interested in what is) then the Whole rushes into consciousness. The way this often happens is there is a strong shift to the opposite polarity (the Undivided Light) and that dominates experience for a time, and then something more balanced arises, something more in keeping in with the Whole, from and in which it can express itself quite freely. A very common mistake is to assume that the opposite polarity is where truth is, and what we had seen before was untruth. We then try to shift our experience to this opposite polarity. This can be useful, if we are not too forceful, but only shift our attention to that which we had been ignoring. It helps us to include more of the Whole. But what usually happens (which isn't really wrong) is that we end up ignoring the Whole just as much as before when we try to fixate on the opposite pole of a duality. And then where did our surrender go? And where did the whole go? And where did this struggle come from?

Just to clarify: Thusness did not ask me to preach in other forums... The only times he asked to converse with others is if he sees potential in that person to undergo a breakthrough. In fact those people he spoke too generally attain breakthrough in realizations just by conversing with him. In fact almost everyone he converses with will realize what thusness points out because their conditions are already there - just needed the right pointers. He would sit and meditate to observe that person's conditions before giving appropriate replies if he sees a positive condition there. I don't do all these and apparently not everyone attains realization just by speaking with me... And I talk to a large group of people unlike thusness. Also I don't post here to accumulate merits... I post here when I see posts that needs to be corrected. And I wonder where did lucky see that passage as I don't remember discussing about merits in this forum. But since this was mentioned, here's the post I wrote in my buddhist forum last year: I remember years ago (in fact even today) Thusness would have me explain the dharma to people from various forums. One time many years ago I thought it would be better if Thusness explained by himself to the others, so I told Thusness why don't you post yourself or something like that. Thusness suddenly appeared serious (he seldom talk in this tone) and asked me so are you going to do this or not? Then he told me the reason (not exact words now but along this line) he had me to do this was because I was lacking in merits to gain enlightenment. And then he said something like... you think I'm joking? Suddenly at that moment I realized why he was always taking the trouble and instructing me to do all those things... when he could have done it himself. Not long later I had a meditation experience... he informed me it is due to my merits ripening due to explaining the dharma to someone some time ago. He informed me there is a direct causal relation. When asked how does he know that merits is important for experience and realization, he simply says this is his experience. He says it may not make a lot of sense to a dualistic mind, but this is how it (dependent origination) works. <!--[endif]--> Khenpo Tsultrim Gyatso Rinpoche Accumulating Merit - bSod-nams-bsags-pa Translated by Ari Goldfield Before listening to Lord Buddha’s teachings, I want to ask you to give rise to supreme bodhicitta. Supreme bodhicitta is developed and increased by first thinking of one’s father and mother in this life and then extending the gratitude and love one feels for them to all sentient beings, even to one’s enemies. We want to attain the state of complete, perfect, and precious enlightenment for their sake. We know that in order to be able to benefit all sentient beings, we need to listen to, reflect, and meditate upon the genuine Dharma teachings with all the enthusiasm we can muster in our hearts. Please give rise to supreme bodhicitta when you listen attentively. We think of our parents first because our opportunity to practice the Dharma in this lifetime is due to the immense kindness they have shown us. We think of our enemies, too, because they were the ones who gave us the exceptional possibility to practice patience when they were unkind and hurt us. Furthermore, there is not a single enemy who was not our caring father or mother at one time in the past, so that is why we remember them with gratitude. We think of the nature of the minds of the people we are associated with - our friends, our enemies, and all sentient beings. We know that the nature of the mind of every single sentient being is clear light, the enlightened heart that is the Buddha nature. Since we have the Buddha nature, we can be sure that we will benefit others immensely. Just as the nature of our own mind is clear light, the nature of our parent’s mind is also clear light. Likewise, the nature of mind of all our friends and enemies is clear light. The nature of mind of every single sentient being is clear light. “Realizing the true nature of reality, Mahamudra, depends upon accumulating a vast amount of merit.” - Khenpo In order to realize the true nature of reality, Mahamudra, it is necessary to accumulate merit that accords with the teachings that Lord Buddha presented a long time ago. Arya Maitreya taught how to accumulate merit in the text entitled, Madhyantavibhanga – Distinguishing the Middle from the Extremes.1 He taught that the ten ways to accumulate limitless merit are: (1) to write down the words of the Buddhadharma, (2) to make offerings to the objects of refuge, (3) to practice generosity, (4) to listen to the precious teachings, (5) to read the invaluable instructions, (6) to memorize the sacred texts, (7) to explain them to others, (8) to recite them, (9) to reflect their meaning, and (10) to meditate them. We will start accumulating merit by writing down the verses I will read to you and in that way you will purify negative actions that you have done with your hands. We have written down a lot of letters and words out of attachment and aversion, and all of that has been very negative. Now it is time to do something positive. The way to go about this is to write down the verses of the Dharma with the good motivation of faith and devotion and with a pure objective. When you write down the truth of the precious Buddhadharma, then the merit you accumulate is limitless. So do write down the verses that I will read to you. The first verse reads: “It is explained that by abandoning the belief in a self, mental afflictions, difficulties, and suffering, one can attain peace. However, since these are all primordially empty of essence, where are the fabrications of abandoning and of not abandoning?” Now that you have written down the words of the first verse, we will recite it, which is the accumulation of merit that purifies all negative words that you have spoken out of attachment and aversion, and all of that has been very negative. Please recite the following verse: “Thoughts of abandoning, non-abandoning, and so forth have never been seen to come or go. Therefore, they are said to be non-existent. Thoughts have never been seen to come or go.” Translator: I made a mistake. Khenpo Rinpoche: Mistakes don’t really exist. In the chapter entitled, An Examination of Mistakes, the Protector Nagarjuna proved that mistakes do not really exist. So: “The variety of doubts neither arises nor ceases." Please continue by reciting the next verse too: “Neither bondage nor liberation have ever been perceived with regard to it. However, like bondage and liberation in dreams, bondage and liberation are merely mind's imputations.” The next verse we want to recite is: "The essence of the self held prisoner has never been seen, and the doubts that bind are free of arising and ceasing. Therefore, bondage and liberation are dependently arisen, mere appearances. Let clinging to them as being real dissolve into the unborn expanse." We should recite the next verse three times, which is: "This life is appearance-emptiness, like a water-moon. So, past and future lives are also appearance-emptiness, like water-moons. Therefore, feelings of joy and pain are dream-like. Know this well, and your view will be profound." If you reflect the meaning of the words in the verses while reciting them, then you are practicing profound analytical meditation. We are not going to practice meditation separated from recitation because reciting and analysing is meditation - yes. Sometimes one needs to take a break and rest. So when you get tired of writing down the precious Dharma, then recite the verses, and when you get tired of reciting them, then just let go and relax. We continue reciting, reflecting, and meditating: "These are the ways that the relative is empty of a very essence and the genuine clear light, the enlightened nature of mind, is empty of the stains of relative fabrications and of all concepts of conventional terms. Therefore, this is known as ‘the empty of other,’ the great middle-way." Let us recite this verse together three times: "In essence, it is originally and perfectly pure and free of the fleeting stains of conceptual fabrications as well, and therefore the enlightened essence of the stainless result is called 'the transcendent perfection of genuine purity.'" Let us recite this verse together three times, too: "Since it is beyond the self that ego-clinging mind believes to exist and beyond the selflessness ascertained through analysis of inference, therefore it is called ‘the transcendently perfect, genuine self.’ Where are the thoughts of self’s filthy clothes?" We continue by reciting the following verses three times: "Samsara and nirvana are imagined to exist in dependence upon each other and therefore neither the one or the other has an essence. Realizing reality of samsara and nirvana’s equality is explained to be transcendently perfect, genuine permanence.” "Joy and pain are just dependently existing concepts. Their lack of an essence is the way relative things are empty. When the reality of joy and pain being equal is realized, this is called 'transcendently perfect, genuine bliss.'" "The way the relative is empty of its own essence, the way the genuine is empty of other, and the reality that is pure self, bliss, and constant - may precise knowledge realizing these three increase." Now let us recite them all and practice recitation-meditation. If you do recitation-meditation, you won’t get tired of meditation - your meditation won’t fall into dullness or stupor. Getting tired of meditating can be very dangerous. If you get tired of working, you can rest. If you get tired of studying, you can meditate. But if you get tired of meditating, that’s dangerous. That’s why analytical meditation is excellent. "It is explained that by abandoning the belief in a self, in all afflictions, difficulties, and suffering, one can attain peace. However, since these are all primordially empty of essence, where are the fabrications of abandoning and not abandoning? Thoughts of abandoning, not abandoning, and so forth have never been seen to come or go and therefore they are said to be of the nature of primordially empty space. The variety of doubts neither arises nor ceases. Neither bondage nor liberation has ever been perceived with regard to it. However, like bondage and liberation in dreams, this bondage and liberation is merely mind's imputation. The essence of the self held prisoner has never been seen, and doubts that bind are free of arising and ceasing. Therefore, bondage and liberation are dependently arisen, mere appearances. Let clinging to them as being real dissolve into the unborn expanse.” “This life is appearance-emptiness, like a water-moon. So past and future lives are also appearance-emptiness, like water-moons. Therefore, feelings of joy and pain are dream-like. Know this well and your view will be profound.” “These are the ways that the relative is empty of its very essence and the genuine clear light, the enlightened nature of mind, is empty of the stains of relative fabrications and of all concepts of conventional terms. Therefore, this is renowned as 'the empty-of-other,' the great middle-way.” “In essence, it is originally and perfectly pure and free of fleeting stains of conceptual fabrications as well. And therefore, the enlightened essence of the stainless result is called 'the transcendent perfection of genuine purity.' Since it is beyond the self that ego-clinging mind believes to exist and since it is beyond selflessness ascertained by means of analysis and inference, therefore it is called ‘the transcendently perfect, genuine self.’ Where are the thoughts of self's filthy clothes?” "Samsara and nirvana are imagined to exist in dependence upon each other and therefore neither the one or the other has an essence. Realizing the reality of samsara and nirvana's equality is said to be transcendently perfect, genuine permanence.” “Joy and pain are just dependently existing concepts. Their lack of any essence is the way relative things are empty. When the reality of joy and pain being equal is realized, this is called 'transcendently perfect, genuine bliss.'" “The way the relative is empty of its own essence, the way the genuine is empty of other, and the reality that is pure self, bliss, and permanence - may precise knowledge realizing these three increase." In the next teaching I will explain some important verses from the text called The Ocean of Definitive Meaning of Mountain Dharma by Dolpopa Sherab Gyaltsen.2 There will be time for questions and answers after further teachings. It is important to leave time for questions at the same time that doubts arise. If we take time for questions before doubts arise, then that doesn’t help very much. Let us continue now by singing the song called The Ultimate View, Meditation, Conduct, and Fruition by Jetsun Milarepa. In this song, Jetsun Milarepa teaches the view of Shentong, the empty-of-other school, so it is very good for us to sing. Everyone needs to analyse and judge for himself and herself, so we should reflect and ask ourselves, "Is this song really in harmony with the view of Shentong or not?"3 The Buddha himself said, "Just like a merchant examines gold by rubbing, burning, and melting it, so you should examine my speech. Accept nothing on blind faith." These are Lord Buddha’s own teachings, and we must examine the words for ourselves. Translator: I will sing one verse and then we can sing it together. “The Ultimate View, Meditation, Conduct, and Fruition” by Jetsun Milarepa "The view is original wisdom which is empty, Meditation clear light, free of fixation, Conduct continual flow without attachment, Fruition is nakedness stripped of every stain. This view, the original wisdom that is empty, Risks getting lost in just being talk and no more. If certainty which is in touch with what’s meant does not follow, The words will not manage to free you of clinging to self, And that’s why definitive certainty means so much. The meditation clear light, free of fixation, Risks getting lost in just being settling. If original wisdom does not emerge from within you, You might settle steadily, but this will not set you free. But wisdom does not come of dullness and agitation, And that’s why non-wandering mindfulness means so much. This conduct, continual flow without attachment, Risks getting lost in only being a pretence. If the view and meditation are not included, The eight worldly dharmas may mix with your yogic pursuits, And that’s why freedom from clinging and veils means so much. Fruition as nakedness stripped of every defect Risks getting clothed in the garments of attributes. If delusion is not overcome from its source on the inside, Your practice may aim very far but fall very short, And that’s why correcting delusion means so much."4 <!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="_x0000_i1026" type="#_x0000_t75" style='width:37.5pt;height:37.5pt'> <v:imagedata src="merit_files/image003.png" mce_src="/forums/1728/topics/merit_files/image003.png" o:title="" /> </v:shape><![endif]--> <!--[if !vml]--> <!--[endif]--> May virtue increase! Instructions presented at Vajra Vidya Thrangu House in Oxford, 2000, transcribed and edited by Gaby Hollmann <!--[if !supportFootnotes]--> <!--[endif]--> 1 See Ven. Thrangu Rinpoche, Distinguishing the Middle from the Extremes by Asanga, based on the inspiration of the Buddha Maitreya. A Commentary, translated by Jules Levinson, Namo Buddha Publications, Crestone, Colorado, 2000. 2 Dol-po-pa Shes-rab Rgyal-mtshan (1292-1361), known simply as Dolpopa is often seen as the founder of the Jonangpa Tradition. However, the origins of the Jonangpa tradition in Tibet can be traced to early 12th century master Yumo Mikyo Dorje, but they became much wider known with the help of Dolpopa Sherab Gyaltsen. Dolpopa was one of the most influential and original Tibetan teachers. He developed the Shentong School and is considered to be one of the greatest exponents of the Kalachakra. In Mountain Doctrine: Tibet's Fundamental Treatise on Other-Emptiness and the Buddha Matrix by Dolpopa (Snow Lion Publications, Ithaca, 2006) Jeffrey Hopkins wrote, „Dolpopa was one of the most influential figures of the 14th century Tibet, a dynamic period of doctrinal formulation. His works were monumental and seminal in that they present a penetrating and controversial re-formulation of doctrines on emptiness and Buddha-nature influential through to the present day.” 3 See Khenpo Tsultrim Gyatso Rinpoche, Shentong, in the last issue of Thar Lam. See especially Khenpo Tsultrim Gyatso Rinpoche, Progressive Stages of Meditation on Emptiness, translated and arranged by Shenpen Hookham, Longchen Foundation, Oxford, 1st edition 1986, 2nd edition 1988, and Zhyisil Chokyi Ghatsal Trust Publications, Auckland, N.Z., 2000. 4 Translated by Jim Scott, in: Selected Songs of Realization, Marpa Translation Committee. Printed by AKTUELL-Copyshop, Hamburg, 1995, pages 66-68.

Sure, let's discuss mathematical assumptions. Most people fail to recognize that the foundation of a mathematical statement is only true in relation to the assumptions of set theory, the assumption that any collection of objects actually exists. All objects, without exception, are indeed mathematical. The reason for that lies in the multiplying/dividing nature of the optically organized universe. However, the modern cosmological understanding of the universe suggests that no objects exist, indicating that mathematics pivots on a misguided belief in materialism. The sciences usually expound on relative reality through the assumption that object-ive reality actually exists. However, objectivism is based on objects, and those objects are no more real than last nights dream. To discuss Heart-Mind, there needs to be a vocabulary that points to beyond objects,...beyond irrelevancy of empirical data. The seeing of objects as separate from perceived self is a barrier to Heart-Mind. Thus, the journey to uncovering Heart-Mind is one of unlearning. Heart-Mind does not exist within Math's "set theory" "In pursuit of knowledge, every day something is acquired. In pursuit of wisdom, every day something is dropped." - Lao Tzu

I don't associate dreaming to the brain but the liver. The liver stores the Hun and dreaming is the roaming of the Hun; the dream is the information picked up during it's travels. The ancients taught that the Hun can travel the nine levels of earth and nine levels of heaven. And the Shen (housed in the heart) when fully developed can energetically travel. I don't think it is about the brain.

You always use only the one true mind, but it gets obscured by beliefs. The brain is a hard one to overcome. Say you're dreaming and in your dream you have a dream body. Which brain is dreaming? If the dream brain, then how do you remember your dreams upon waking? If the waking brain is dreaming your dreams, does that means there is another brain elsewhere that's dreaming this life? If not, why the asymmetry? Investigate. As for the third eye, it's just a way to see visions. Do you want to see visions? First think whether or not seeing visions will improve the quality of your life. If you are convinced your life is lacking without the visions, then you can "open" it, but don't be in a hurry. To open it you have to understand how you see. What sees in the dream?

Thanks for the videos, Sloppy! Not different dimensions, different timelines. (I've glimpsed different dimensions too, but that's a different story.) Timelines and dimensions are not the same. I use dreamwork to access a 3D process which involves multiple timelines without any of them changing dimensionality except on occasion and for a purpose (e.g., a surgery that can't be done in 3D can be done in 4D -- whether physical or an "exorcism" that actually is necessary every single time when a different-dimensionality entity has trespassed and squatted in a 3D being -- but under normal conditions, no 3D creature is comfortable with 4D intruders or in 4D environments, and higher than that -- or lower than that for that matter -- is absolutely unlivable for a human being, I know this for a fact.) 3D+time=a 3D process, not a 4D space. Time is not a dimension "like the rest." Time is part of all dimensions, because all dimensions are processes, not "objects." Yup, you got the interdimensional travel right, but that's not what I do unless forced to (I was forced to on a couple of occasions... I can't handle it. I get dimensionsick much like one gets seasick. Only worse. I might get used to it with practice, the way someone might get over seasickness with practice, but I don't practice this. Maybe someday... if I have to. I'd rather not.) Switching to different timelines is possible without switching to a different dimensionality. I was basically shown how in a dream I had when I was 4. It is indeed awesome but very scary. I'll give you an example of some ordinary everyday activity to illustrate just how scary it is. Imagine you need to get to the supermarket to buy some groceries. It's a ten minute walk, and you are debating with yourself whether you should take a walk or drive there. In our everyday functioning, we create such bifurcations in space-time every time we make a decision, and once the choice is made and the road is taken -- whichever road -- the other option goes extinct, does not cross over to the domain of the manifest and reverts forever to the unmanifest (in taoist terms, does not enter Houtian and reverts to Xiantian). It never happens. It never manifests simply because you made something else happen and manifest. Say, you decide you'll walk, and walk. The whole sequence of events that would have, could have, should have resulted from your driving immediately goes extinct -- the timeline where you took the car to the supermarket goes extinct. You proceed on the timeline you've chosen, the one where you walk. What happened on that timeline that never happened? Maybe nothing to make it much different from the one that did happen -- you arrived three minutes sooner, nothing changed. Or maybe something happened there to change everything -- e.g., a fatal car accident, or alternatively, in the space of those three minutes you met your future wife who was just leaving the supermarket and dropped something and you picked it up and it resulted in children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren -- a timeline of posterity sprouting from that 3-minute window of opportunity. But since you didn't take the car, these and all other infinite versions of different timelines never happened and you can never know the "what if" of any of them. Now then. In reality, this is not the case. In reality, you are something or somebody who can manifest any such timeline at any time in any place, always and forever for all infinity. You are someone who decides to pull a timeline outta Xiantian. If you know how that is. If you do it even once, this changes everything, this changes how you relate to the world you're in -- in particular, this basically renders its timeline which is supposed to be irreversible quite extinct. And that's very very very scary.

"Your access to different timelines is determined by their emotional rather than spacial or temporal proximity. I.e. if you feel you "belong here" and all you want to do is tweak with your position "here," you can learn to lucid-dream in this timeline. But if you feel you "belong elsewhere," you will need to work out the details of this "elsewhere" first. " Interesting. I keep wondering if the interweb might be interfering with my ability to switch over to a world without a certain number of undesirables in it (including mercury in fish and fiat currencies that leave millions up the creek without a paddle). Although it also seems that it's one of the principal channels through which I'm gaining a sense of hope that all is not entirely lost and that big and beneficial changes are on their way in many areas.

Erasing? Or? Or pulling out a dream of being attacked, noticing the malevolent presence still there, and then opening to it and it revealing something beneficial. I don't know that I can recommend it, but it has happened in my experience. I think it was partly conditioned by a recognition of lack of ultimate reality in the malevolent appearance. The appearance wasn't fixed in my mind.

I have a friend who is naturally lucid dreamer like me and we are learning from each other and are about to go on expirimenting with trying to meet up in the dreams.Anyone done this succesfully?I knew somebody who did it long time ago. Latley I have been waking myself up from dreams(as my main dream practise) by remebering that I am dreaming ,but waking up into the void instead physiaclly waking up,sort of earising dreams. Catpillar,I feel that embracing my own shadow in a dream does it for me.This works on many levels ,as well on astral level in which if I am getting attacked if I 'embrace'attackers and send them love theyll melt away becouse they dont like those vibrations.

I have a book recommendation: The Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche (Author), Mark Dahlby (Editor) Dreaming is a high and mighty human art in many traditions, but not all of them are written... so if you want to do it in a traditional non-haphazard way, oral transmission is best, but a good book describing a written dreaming tradition is better than trying to invent the wheel. I am working on switching timelines in dreamtime... not really interested in lucid dreaming in this one, I spend enough time here in my waking state. Your access to different timelines is determined by their emotional rather than spacial or temporal proximity. I.e. if you feel you "belong here" and all you want to do is tweak with your position "here," you can learn to lucid-dream in this timeline. But if you feel you "belong elsewhere," you will need to work out the details of this "elsewhere" first. Lucid-dreaming in the current timeline is much easier, because you remember many details (millions) on autopilot. What your clothes look like, and everybody else's. What houses, lampposts, money, toilet bowls looks like. What a "car" is. What a "Ph.D." means. Millions of details are already there, you don't have to change "it all" in your dream -- only something minor like your own position within this timeline. Not so easy with switching timelines. Things you don't remember outnumber things you do by orders of magnitude. Luckily, once you remember something, it's like a bead on a string -- you pull and the whole necklace of related, connected "beads" can be dragged out, and then you notice where it is tied to another one... you can disentangle a whole timeline like this. The "bead" is an emotionally significant or a very vividly remembered (due to repetitive use, e.g.) little detail. One such repetitive detail is the shoes you wear in a particular timeline. I like to start exploring other timelines by looking down at my feet (with my mind's eye, not with my physical eyes) to see what I'm wearing there. The routine is, as you go to sleep in "this" timeline, you visualize waking up in "another" one, and when you wake up, you put your shoes on, or go barefoot as the case may be. (I can't gain access yet to timelines that have no shoes.) When you are putting your shoes on, use your hands (in your mind, that is), and keep looking at your hands and feet and the shoes might materialize. If they materialize, put them on and go... where?.. Keep watching your feet, see where they are going... take it from there.

Some of my dreams must have affected me, but maybe more subconsciously. Inversely, my dreams reflect more of my waking fears now. Major themes I'm noticing are regret and procrastination. Usually, emotional dreams affect me for just a few hours after dreaming. Thankfully, I have never been prone to bad or frequent nightmares. Edit** Sometimes, I think my dreams are trying to teach me to dream lucidly. The repetetive nature of them and the fact that most of my dreams occur in the same settings has started inducing some interesting dream thoughts bordering on fully becoming aware. I'm... so... close...

Excellent post,...certainly worthy of critique. The Mind of a Tathagata has never moved. The sentient mind, which aroses from the skandhas, cannot sense that which has never moved,...the sentient mind observes only motion,...from an apparently resting rock, to massive Planets in orbit around the Sun,...all objects are in motion. The Mind of a Tathagata has never moved. Quite frightening for the sentient, sciential mind,...it upsets its logic. Although the phrase "Enlightenment is knowledge of death itself" is common language use, it doesn't ring as well as it could,...for example,....Enlightenment is Gnowledge of death itself. The language to discuss Heart-Mind needs to be more specific. Knowledge arises from the cerebral-mind,...an accumulation of ideas,..whereas gnowledge is an understanding beyond sentience. Inscribed over the portico of the Temple at Delphi in Greece was written Gnothi Seauton—gnow thyself. To the Greeks, gnowledge or wisdom arose through the thymos, located near the physical heart, and associated with the thymus gland. The psyche, located in the gray-goo in the head, was considered of secondary importance. Some cultures like the Egyptian and Maya of Mesoamerica, thought so lowly of the brain, or sciential mind, that before burials it was sucked out and discarded, whereas the heart was treasured. Today's scientially minded may think such a philosophy as primitive, but keep in mind that the Egyptians for example were quite aware of the brain. Evidence clearly shows that the Egyptians had an intimate knowledge of brain functions, for instance that the left cerebral hemisphere controls the right side of the body. As was the case with the tantrika and Vajrayana in Asia, and the Maya of Mesoamerica, Egyptians seemed to have been aware that the brain is the vessel for the lowest consciousness, whereas from the heart arose the highest consciousness. Ancient cultures appear to have discarded the brain because they had a higher awareness of self. Knowledge proceeds through what Buddha called the five skandhas or Aggregates, which includes sensual perceptions and conditioned experience by way of the psyche or personal consciousness. To know is to comprehend noologically, through intellect-based thought. Gnowledge or sapience, from sapientia, is to understand through metasensory awareness and unconditioned experience through the thymos or impersonal consciousness. To gnow is to understand by way of gnosis, the gnowledge that Siddhartha Gautama, the "Sage of the Shakyas," implied when he said, be a Lamp unto Thyself. Of course this is just semantics,...however, semantics are more important to the discussion of Heart-Mind that for a Lawyer, Physician, or Astrologer. Deci Belle wrote, "As one is becoming of heartmind; heartmind is becoming of oneself." This broaches a huge discussion,...for example, how is No Beginning, No end, applicable to our perceived present? The sentient mind looks at a presumed past and theorizes an evolutionary process, a beginning and possible end. The religious minded looks at their Holy Books and theorizes a beginning and no end. It may be impossible for the sentient mind to grasp that time is one, or that evolution may have occurred from the top down, rather than the bottom up. The sentient mind cannot sense stillness,...and yet, stillness, the stillness of consciousness, is who we are,...even for those attached to the dream of motion for their identity. "Do you know?" Deci Belle writes. I'd say that, those who know, do not gnow. V

Your response arose due to causes and conditions. Even the experience of the unconditioned arises due to causes and conditions. The unconditioned is the realization arising from direct insight into dependent origination/emptiness. It is synonymous with untied. It is not a self existent. The Five Reasonings of Noble Nagarjuna that Point to the Essence (that is not there) by Refuting all Limits of Thoughts Since it is beyond the nature of being one or many, Suffering has no inherent essence, Like the suffering in a dream, for example. The suffering in bardo is also like this. Since it does not arise from itself, other, Both of them, or without a cause, Suffering does not arise. Present suffering is also like this. Since the result does not arise From existing at the time of the cause, From not existing, from both, or neither, Suffering therefore does not arise. From one cause, neither one nor many results arise. From many causes, neither one nor many results arise. Therefore, all things are without arising. Suffering, too, is like a dream. Since like a moon in water, a rainbow, and a movie, It is the mere appearance of interdependent arising, No phenomenon exists through possessing an essence. The extremes of samsara and nirvana, of permanence and extinction are transcended. ................. none the less... Just as the grammarian makes one study grammar, A Buddha teaches according to the tolerance of his students; Some he urges to refrain from sins, others to do good, Some to rely on dualism, other on non-dualism; And to some he teaches the profound, The terrifying, the practice of enlightenment, Whose essence is emptiness (not light, not dark) that is compassion Nagarjuna (c.100 - 200 AD) The realization of "clear light" is not an absorption nor is it making an absorption of only light a fulcrum. p.s. Vmarco is an eternalist.

Dependent origination does not deny reality as we observe it, nor to say that there’s no reality outside the mind, but simply that no ‘reality in itself’ exists. Phenomena only exist in dependence on other phenomena and therefore are empty of any intrinsic characteristics or core. This is the realization of corelessness via the realization of dependent origination. Self-doubt is not liberation. The liberation from all doubts, beliefs and views through experiential realization of the twofold emptiness is what liberation is. And yes, I am not the same as others in one way: I am no longer deluded about inherent existence. And I have no problems with being different - if all my friends take drugs that doesn't mean I should, I don't want to be part of a group just because that condition is pervasive. If you think being deluded into inherent existence and therefore suffer is being normal and "part of the group" and those who are free of it by realizing the twofold emptinesses are "assholes", I'd rather be an asshole by being the free minority. (Oh and I don't see why we are assholes since we actually deeply care about liberating others from delusion and suffering - it is not like we are some elite uncaring group) I do not wish to be the majority of the world who are still suffering and in delusion. And this is what Buddha sets out to teach from the beginning - suffering and end of suffering. P.s. The appearance of thinking isn't denied, but since thinking dependently originates they are ultimately empty. This is the inseperability of the two truths, relative and ultimate. Therefore there is no contradictions whatsoever in my statements. ................. The Heart of Prajna Paramita Sutra When Bodhisattva Avalokiteshvara was practicing the profound Prajna Paramita, he illuminated the Five Skandhas and saw that they are all empty, and he crossed beyond all suffering and difficulty. Shariputra, form does not differ from emptiness; emptiness does not differ from form. Form itself is emptiness; emptiness itself is form. So too are feeling, cognition, formation, and consciousness. Shariputra, all Dharmas are empty of characteristics. They are not produced, not destroyed, not defiled, not pure; and they neither increase nor diminish. Therefore, in emptiness there is no form, feeling, cognition, formation, or consciousness; no eyes, ears, nose, tongue, body, or mind; no sights, sounds, smells, tastes, objects of touch, or Dharmas; no field of the eyes up to and including no field of mind consciousness; and no ignorance or ending of ignorance, up to and including no old age and death or ending of old age and death. There is no suffering, no accumulating, no extinction, and no Way, and no understanding and no attaining. Because nothing is attained, the Bodhisattva through reliance on Prajna Paramita is unimpeded in his mind. Because there is no impediment, he is not afraid, and he leaves distorted dream-thinking far behind. Ultimately Nirvana! All Buddhas of the three periods of time attain Anuttara-samyak-sambodhi through reliance on Prajna Paramita. Therefore know that Prajna Paramita is a Great Spiritual Mantra, a Great Bright Mantra, a Supreme Mantra, an Unequalled Mantra. It can remove all suffering; it is genuine and not false. That is why the Mantra of Prajna Paramita was spoken. Recite it like this: Gaté Gaté Paragaté Parasamgaté Bodhi Svaha! End of The Heart of Prajna Paramita Sutra

My understanding of dreams is that it is largely about emotional processing of events from your waking life, so young children dream intensely because their brains are making sense of all the impressions they have taken in throughout their day. But I think some young children may take in a lot of impressions which really have nothing to do with their lives because children are so open energetically, so they may absorb the impression of another persons trauma for example and later that night have a nightmare while processing it. An example of what I mean is that there have been studies of children of Holocaust survivors who would draw pictures of death camps and suffering even though their parents had never talked about their experiences to them, so somehow the child non-verbally takes in the experience of the Holocaust into themselves just from being open around their parents even though their parents had done all they could to shield them from those horrors. Which goes to show that you need to energetically release your own traumas and anxieties or they may be passed on even if you make a conscious effort not to harm anyone, there may be traumas passed down in families energetically for generations maybe even hundreds of years until someone does the work to heal them. So personally I doubt a dream itself could harm you unless you are attacked by a Shaman in some way, but you may have picked up upon some traumatic impressions from your environment or family which then manifested in your dreams.

Actually you didn't know... When you realize Anatta, or even Shunyata, you don't transcend physical reality. And when you realize Anatta... all experience becomes intensely wonderful, incredible, awesome, luminous, alive, blissful, delightful, thrilling, intense, that everything ordinary - roses, trees, becomes a magical fairy-tale-like wonderland. One becomes very very sensuous, and 'trips' on life effortlessly. All these because there is no 'self' separate from what is perceived... there is total intimacy there. There is literally total intimacy with everything - no distance! And I can assure you, that no matter how you try to 'smell the roses' you will never truly experience and see what I do... unless that illusion of self is removed. Yes, you can experience being alive and smell the roses with that illusion of self, but this is really at a totally different level... Now you don't see the mountain, you are the mountain, you dont feel the wind, you are the wind, and even that is not right! There is just wind blowing, that alone is... and is incredibly alive and wonderful with total intimacy. In Shunyata, one wonders at the incredible magicality of the universe - apparent and yet not there... yet so luminous and vivid and yet ungraspable, unlocatable and empty - like a magic show, like a dream. This is very blissful and wonderful to a whole new level. When I debate with people I don't often mention these things and experiences... so perhaps I sound a little empty, but I assure you the direct realization and experience is truly wonderful. And I can tell you that realization is the most incredible thing in life and you will never want to live life in your old ways... You will never want to trade your realization for ANYTHING else... this is way better than even being reborn in heaven (if you believe in heaven).

What is "enlightenment?" In Freethought Buddhism, enlightenment literally means being awake to the Light that one is. This Light is not a "sun light", or any illumination from the electrodynamic spectrum, but Clear, Undivided Light,...the fulcrum upon which the electrodynamic spectrum effects its motion. Avadhuta is said to be a state of enlightenment in which the distinctions between good and evil no longer exist. So, enlightenment can be viewed as having levels in the Freethought Buddhist understanding of enlightenment. The actual realization of Undivided Light,...as in the ability to recognize the Clear Light of Naropa's 4th Yoga, is a level of awakening,...at least a level that is quite aware that this illusion is an illusion. At the highest level, we would be talking of the Buddhic fields. Levels of Enlightenment in Freethought Buddhism (a term I just begun using to differentiate the Long Path practices of Theraveda, Mahayana, and Lineage driven Vajrayana, because my use of the word Vajrayana was upsetting Vajrahridaya), is actually a "lightening" experience. Each embedded belief that is let go, manifests a literal lightening from the burden of discarded baggage. There are said to be 3 kinds of food,...the air we breathe (actually, there are more than a few Breatharians said to be living today. Second is the substances we put into our stomache or blood system. Lastly, and perhaps most importantly, is "impressions." Just as air and solid/liguid foods have weight,...so do impressions. My first experience with Undivided Light occurred in 1974 by way of a complete surrender, without any anticipation for the outcome,...as I said, it was a complete surrender. According to a clock, I was exposed to the bliss of Clear Light for nearly 6 hours. There was some similarity with NDE's, but this was beyond that,...no beliefs accompanied me (as near deathers have), and thus I went directly past the 4th and 5th densities,...no worm holes or conduits in time,...although I played with those years later. I was quite surprized to return,...that is, to re-descend,...I did not request to come back, nor did I request to stay,...it was simply a state of bliss. Let me be clear,...I did not go into the Light,...I was the the Light. No hope or fear. No tunnel, no warning, no angels, no body, no god,...just this ecstatic bliss within still, clear, unconditional Light. Nothing was beyond it; there was no beyond. There was consciousness, not as in the perceptual, phenomenal consciousness of our ordinary senses and skandhas, but a consciousness more profound then when awakening from the sleeping dreams of our ordinary sense reality. I was awake from the dream of life. For 6 hours of our perceived time,....awake. Imagine you have been sleeping for 20 years, and all of a sudden you woke up,...you were asleep so long that you believed that was the only reality. This still, energy-less enchantment was the authentic home of my consciousness, a home without body or ego. When I returned, still awake, but in this Duality reality, I went up into the New Mexico mountains. A quite unusual experience happened there (which I won't get into) perhaps 5 hours after being fully in the Light, which prompted me to have a thought, and I instantly went back to sleep, so to say. Personally, I don't consider myself "enlightened", but I am aware of Undivided Light, and have become somewhat familiar with the essence of Self that is beyond this 3d reality. V

This is something that's been brewing in my mind for a while now. Can dreams create psychological scars like those of waking life traumas? I've been thinking a lot about dreams lately. I remember what my dreams used to be like when I was a little kid...they were often as terrifying as they were incredible. It wasn't all nightmare material, either. Some of them were terrifying because they were beyond my ability to process or understand. It's hard to even describe many of them...some held a semblance of coherent story or setting, others were so surreal that I can't even put words to them. Many left me feeling disturbed on a fundamental level. I sometimes wonder if the intensity of my dreams when I was a child had a significant impact on my psychological development growing up.

It has to be directly seen and realized. This is not a belief. Like you're in a dream of monsters, I ask you to investigate whether the monster is real and suddenly you wake up. Free from the dream... without adding another one.

I agree with you 100%. It's been very similar with me too. As I have surmounted fear, anxiety, shame and guilt I realized that 90% of my drive to live was gone. But for me, my life was never completely driven by negative emotions. I've done many things purely for the joy of it. For example, I learned how to program computers on my own, just purely having fun watching something come of my labors, as if by magic. I really enjoyed that. I also loved lucid dreaming, contemplating, meditating and engaging in my spiritual path. I've met some pretty cool people as well. While I consider the world to be filled with mostly idiots, I was lucky to meed some rare non-idiots. So for me life was never a complete drudge or a slog. There was joy and magic in my life too. But once 90% of my drive was gone, I definitely found myself sort of floating instead of rushing forward like a man on fire. But from my point of view, there is no point in killing myself now. I will die in due time. What's the hurry? I am not in any hurry, that's for sure. I don't fear adverse conditions. Approval of other people hardly matters to me. There is really no reason for me to run from this life into the next. Death will come on its own and I fear nothing this life can throw at me. I don't fear life. So? I am certainly patient. I can wait 3 long aeons if necessary. I don't have some kind of heavenly appointment I need to rush for. I view future lives as dreams. I've had countless dreams and I know one thing. Generally all my dreams are good. Some are amazing and much superior to my day to day life. Some are slightly more boring and stupider than my day to day life. There are many mundane dreams which are identical to what I experience day to day. My dreams become magical and enchanted if I intend them to be, but then, the same thing works for day to day life (although it is much much impressive and scarier in day to day life than in a dream). In other words, my life is as enchanted as I can take it and as I want it. I don't know if you can believe me, but from my point of view, everything I say about me is true for you too. You have the same abilities. The purpose of life is not something that can be given to you. Even if someone tells you what your purpose is, you can always reject it or accept it. So you are still the final authority on your life's purpose. You can make your life's purpose arbitrarily amazing and meaningful. All you have to do is think of the best thing you can, kneel down and make a vow to dedicate yourself to that purpose in your own mind. I have such purpose for myself. I've dedicated myself to the utmost wisdom and to the perfection of knowledge. I have some other, more minor vows. Nobody forced these on me. I took them upon myself of my own choice. You can do similarly. Don't sell yourself short. You're not a mere consumer of life. Life is not like a TV show. If you don't like a TV show, you flip the channel. In this life you are a movie director. If you don't like the show, you write a new script, hire new actors, and enact a new show. You're not just a show watcher (this is a consumerist approach to life, where life is thought to be thrown at you by the powers that be and your job is to merely passively consume it as is). You're a director. You have the power to direct.