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Actually you didn't know... When you realize Anatta, or even Shunyata, you don't transcend physical reality. And when you realize Anatta... all experience becomes intensely wonderful, incredible, awesome, luminous, alive, blissful, delightful, thrilling, intense, that everything ordinary - roses, trees, becomes a magical fairy-tale-like wonderland. One becomes very very sensuous, and 'trips' on life effortlessly. All these because there is no 'self' separate from what is perceived... there is total intimacy there. There is literally total intimacy with everything - no distance! And I can assure you, that no matter how you try to 'smell the roses' you will never truly experience and see what I do... unless that illusion of self is removed. Yes, you can experience being alive and smell the roses with that illusion of self, but this is really at a totally different level... Now you don't see the mountain, you are the mountain, you dont feel the wind, you are the wind, and even that is not right! There is just wind blowing, that alone is... and is incredibly alive and wonderful with total intimacy. In Shunyata, one wonders at the incredible magicality of the universe - apparent and yet not there... yet so luminous and vivid and yet ungraspable, unlocatable and empty - like a magic show, like a dream. This is very blissful and wonderful to a whole new level. When I debate with people I don't often mention these things and experiences... so perhaps I sound a little empty, but I assure you the direct realization and experience is truly wonderful. And I can tell you that realization is the most incredible thing in life and you will never want to live life in your old ways... You will never want to trade your realization for ANYTHING else... this is way better than even being reborn in heaven (if you believe in heaven).

What is "enlightenment?" In Freethought Buddhism, enlightenment literally means being awake to the Light that one is. This Light is not a "sun light", or any illumination from the electrodynamic spectrum, but Clear, Undivided Light,...the fulcrum upon which the electrodynamic spectrum effects its motion. Avadhuta is said to be a state of enlightenment in which the distinctions between good and evil no longer exist. So, enlightenment can be viewed as having levels in the Freethought Buddhist understanding of enlightenment. The actual realization of Undivided Light,...as in the ability to recognize the Clear Light of Naropa's 4th Yoga, is a level of awakening,...at least a level that is quite aware that this illusion is an illusion. At the highest level, we would be talking of the Buddhic fields. Levels of Enlightenment in Freethought Buddhism (a term I just begun using to differentiate the Long Path practices of Theraveda, Mahayana, and Lineage driven Vajrayana, because my use of the word Vajrayana was upsetting Vajrahridaya), is actually a "lightening" experience. Each embedded belief that is let go, manifests a literal lightening from the burden of discarded baggage. There are said to be 3 kinds of food,...the air we breathe (actually, there are more than a few Breatharians said to be living today. Second is the substances we put into our stomache or blood system. Lastly, and perhaps most importantly, is "impressions." Just as air and solid/liguid foods have weight,...so do impressions. My first experience with Undivided Light occurred in 1974 by way of a complete surrender, without any anticipation for the outcome,...as I said, it was a complete surrender. According to a clock, I was exposed to the bliss of Clear Light for nearly 6 hours. There was some similarity with NDE's, but this was beyond that,...no beliefs accompanied me (as near deathers have), and thus I went directly past the 4th and 5th densities,...no worm holes or conduits in time,...although I played with those years later. I was quite surprized to return,...that is, to re-descend,...I did not request to come back, nor did I request to stay,...it was simply a state of bliss. Let me be clear,...I did not go into the Light,...I was the the Light. No hope or fear. No tunnel, no warning, no angels, no body, no god,...just this ecstatic bliss within still, clear, unconditional Light. Nothing was beyond it; there was no beyond. There was consciousness, not as in the perceptual, phenomenal consciousness of our ordinary senses and skandhas, but a consciousness more profound then when awakening from the sleeping dreams of our ordinary sense reality. I was awake from the dream of life. For 6 hours of our perceived time,....awake. Imagine you have been sleeping for 20 years, and all of a sudden you woke up,...you were asleep so long that you believed that was the only reality. This still, energy-less enchantment was the authentic home of my consciousness, a home without body or ego. When I returned, still awake, but in this Duality reality, I went up into the New Mexico mountains. A quite unusual experience happened there (which I won't get into) perhaps 5 hours after being fully in the Light, which prompted me to have a thought, and I instantly went back to sleep, so to say. Personally, I don't consider myself "enlightened", but I am aware of Undivided Light, and have become somewhat familiar with the essence of Self that is beyond this 3d reality. V

I agree with you 100%. It's been very similar with me too. As I have surmounted fear, anxiety, shame and guilt I realized that 90% of my drive to live was gone. But for me, my life was never completely driven by negative emotions. I've done many things purely for the joy of it. For example, I learned how to program computers on my own, just purely having fun watching something come of my labors, as if by magic. I really enjoyed that. I also loved lucid dreaming, contemplating, meditating and engaging in my spiritual path. I've met some pretty cool people as well. While I consider the world to be filled with mostly idiots, I was lucky to meed some rare non-idiots. So for me life was never a complete drudge or a slog. There was joy and magic in my life too. But once 90% of my drive was gone, I definitely found myself sort of floating instead of rushing forward like a man on fire. But from my point of view, there is no point in killing myself now. I will die in due time. What's the hurry? I am not in any hurry, that's for sure. I don't fear adverse conditions. Approval of other people hardly matters to me. There is really no reason for me to run from this life into the next. Death will come on its own and I fear nothing this life can throw at me. I don't fear life. So? I am certainly patient. I can wait 3 long aeons if necessary. I don't have some kind of heavenly appointment I need to rush for. I view future lives as dreams. I've had countless dreams and I know one thing. Generally all my dreams are good. Some are amazing and much superior to my day to day life. Some are slightly more boring and stupider than my day to day life. There are many mundane dreams which are identical to what I experience day to day. My dreams become magical and enchanted if I intend them to be, but then, the same thing works for day to day life (although it is much much impressive and scarier in day to day life than in a dream). In other words, my life is as enchanted as I can take it and as I want it. I don't know if you can believe me, but from my point of view, everything I say about me is true for you too. You have the same abilities. The purpose of life is not something that can be given to you. Even if someone tells you what your purpose is, you can always reject it or accept it. So you are still the final authority on your life's purpose. You can make your life's purpose arbitrarily amazing and meaningful. All you have to do is think of the best thing you can, kneel down and make a vow to dedicate yourself to that purpose in your own mind. I have such purpose for myself. I've dedicated myself to the utmost wisdom and to the perfection of knowledge. I have some other, more minor vows. Nobody forced these on me. I took them upon myself of my own choice. You can do similarly. Don't sell yourself short. You're not a mere consumer of life. Life is not like a TV show. If you don't like a TV show, you flip the channel. In this life you are a movie director. If you don't like the show, you write a new script, hire new actors, and enact a new show. You're not just a show watcher (this is a consumerist approach to life, where life is thought to be thrown at you by the powers that be and your job is to merely passively consume it as is). You're a director. You have the power to direct.

No... the thinker is the thought... more accurately, there is just the thought. But conventionally, this thought, this mind-stream, is different from that mind-stream. But that does not mean there are 'selves'. There are different mindstreams conventionally, but mindstream does not have a thinker. Just like there are different bodies, but it does not mean there is a soul apart from the body, which apparently you seem to agree earlier. Because I have woken up from a delusion without asserting something else. If I had established or asserted a new reality, it could be very well I have entered a new delusion, but I have not. I merely free myself from the views of 'is' or 'is not', but I do not assert a new reality (a new dream). I do not say Emptiness is real. Even emptiness is empty. Saying there is "no thinker" does not mean that there is a "no thinker". There is no "thinker", but also no "no thinker". I do not cling to views of existence, non-existence, emptiness, self, or no-self. The teaching of anatta and dependent origination and emptiness is like a fire that burns the stick, and in the end it disappears along with the stick, leaving.... nothing more or short of total freedom. Yet everything is still clearly vividly perceived - just nothing to cling to! When you have realized this, the teachings of emptiness by Buddha become completely clear to you... there will be no doubts. I am free from beliefs. The biggest and fundamental belief is 'is' and 'is not', of which I am freed. Because I do not hold on to views and beliefs. Nagarjuna says in Vigrahavyavartani (v. 29): . | I have no pratijna (= proposition, position) to defend. . ~ [Vg. 29. ~ If I would make any proposition whatever, then by that I would have a logical error; ~ But I do not make a proposition; therefore I am not in error.] . .............. A view is a fundamental belief one holds about reality. For example, "everything exists" (sarva asti) .... The root of both these mistaken positions is "is" and "is not" -- for example "I exist now, and I will continue to exist after death" or "I exist now but when I die I will cease to exist". ~ Loppon Namdrol At base, the main fetter of self-grasping is predicated upon naive reification of existence and non-existence. Dependent origination is what allows us to see into the non-arising nature of dependently originated phenomena, i.e. the self-nature of our aggregates. Thus, right view is the direct seeing, in meditative equipoise, of this this non-arising nature of all phenomena. As such, it is not a "view" in the sense that is something we hold as concept, it is rather a wisdom which "flows" into our post-equipoise and causes us to truly perceive the world in the following way in Nagarjuna's Bodhicittavivarana: "Form is similar to a foam, Feeling is like water bubbles, Ideation is equivalent with a mirage, Formations are similar with a banana tree, Consciousness is like an illusion." ... "In other words, right view is the beginning of the noble path. It is certainly the case that dependent origination is "correct view"; when one analyzes a bit deeper, one discovers that in the case "view" means being free from views. The teaching of dependent origination is what permits this freedom from views. The teaching of dependent origination is what permits this freedom from views." ~ Loppon Namdrol

I had a dream about just this the other day. Basically the message was that everyone who had ever done what I'd done on the 'path' I'd followed got the same result. Methinks this is why it's called 'lineage'. Still, it is pretty interesting, I think (oh rats, not supposed to that apparently )

Isn't the title of this thread rather strange? I can think of plenty of excellent reasons NOT to commit suicide!! And none of 'm are driven by those 3 yukky words. (not that your point was not clear, but the title just seems odd, is all) Never make feeble attempts to live your life according to other people's standards and expectations. Its going to be futile. Live according to your own standards. If you do not have one set up, then the usual alternative would be to hitch onto other people's, and what happens then is that they will swarm all over you, not with any malicious intent, because they think they are doing you a favor, and that is when all the conditions arise for you to get all messed up inside. There does not seem to be a third alternative, is there? Whenever we feel down in the dumps, its a harsh reminder that some of our priorities need immediate scrutiny and some radical changes made if necessary. An examined life is a life of virtue, as they say. Anyway, i really hope you can discover some up-beat reasons why life is precious and to be cherished. Maybe one good thing to do for those who really think their lives have become meaningless is to exchange their existence with one of those innumerable numbers of people in Somalia who are literally clinging desperately to life. This way, at least someone, just one even, out of the hundreds of thousands, who appreciates life gets a chance to realize their dream. I understand you may be hurting, but there are always choices available where you do not have to push yourself to the precipice in order to exercise them. Pray you will find a way thru'.

Yes of course it can be done ,sounds realistic enough and if that is what you are attracted to(making sure to understand the difference between attraction and escapisam is also important)- go for it. Everyone is uniqe with uniqe ability to learn and uniqe talents,threading their uniqe way. That is the beuty of existance . Living life according to ones own dreams and learning to dream counciously is a good skill which leaves no space for regrets. Try it you may like it or you may get bored very soon. Nature can be rough and unyielding and not very romantic. Feel deep inside of yourself and dont be scared to go forever opens you heart .We all live and learn. Life is actually not so serious .

The practice of 'looking for Who', is an admirable goal. The next step may be a doozy from your current point of view, however it must eventually come up before Who is uncovered. For example, every Buddha is a Tathagata,...and a Tathagata implies the realization of When. Imagine it's 1811,...you were born and raised on a farm near St Louis,...and decide to go to San Francisco. I meet you in Kansas, and tell you about the Rocky Mountains,...you could think I'm pulling your leg, or you could take note that this may be something to occur before you reach san Francisco.. I agree,..that the past has no existence except as it is recorded in the perceived present,...but the perceived present is in the past. Agsin,...the object-ive minded do not see the world that surrounds them, but only the one that surrounded them. What if, David Bohm, and other physicists aree correct,...that all matter is frozen or slowed down light. How would that affect the understanding of the vessel used in perceived existence, and the Five Skandhas which we are not? Who one is, cannot be accessed in time, which is part of the skandhas. Consider As Above, So Below. Look at a star at night (or in the daytime from a deep hole, like the Maya did),...the light you're seeing, depending on the distance, could be thousands of years in the past. Likewise, every object you see around you is in the past, albeit a shorter past,...but the past, nevertherless. This will become even more apparent when you start practicing the first Ultimate Bodhichitta,..."look at everything you perceive as a dream." Walter Russell wrote,..."Change is an illusion of the senses due to motion. There is no change whatsoever in the universe. There is only an illusion of change set up by the two interchanging lights (positive and negative) that divide and multiply within moving matter and mass. The senses are the audience for [divided] light's pulsations. The senses are a part of this illusion. Senses are electric. They belong to the universe of motion and do not respond to stillness. As motion itself is non-existent, so also are senses non-existent. The senses are but the imagined records of imagined motion, matter and change. The senses have no knowledge of what they sense. They merely record motion. The senses respond to motion in only one direction. They sense the forward flow of time but not its back-ward flow. If they could register both directions, they would become aware of the stillness of this zero universe of seeming motion." The awareness of the backward flow of forward moving things is the consciousness of a Tathagata. When our knowing exceeds our sensing, we will no longer be deceived by the illusions of our senses. V

I'm afraid Breivik's actions will realize his dream. More Fear, more distrust, more people afraid of "others". "there was no other way. He had tried all possible alternatives.He felt that his actions were gruesome, but necessary," from nobody would take any notice of me, to worldwide news Martin Bryant allegedly told a next door neighbour "I'll do something that will make everyone remember me." (Hopefully non Australians have already forgotten him ) But with a news media that just thrives on bad news and disaster, the "recognition" these people get is disgusting. What can a single person do? Solitary, isolated, and afraid. Except hide? But together... we can love, together... we can shine. Just as darkness is banished by light, hate is transformed through love.

Sorry. Well yeah, I know of many, but I haven't read them. I don't read much anymore, except blog boards. I just know they're out there, I've glanced over plenty at friends houses, and have had conversations, etc. I'm more of a digester... I have a hard time remembering specific pages, quotes and books. Except when it arises in my memory easily. I'm weird I guess... Namkhai Norbu has a Dream Yoga book, I purchased it though I haven't read it yet. You might try that! I've heard that it's good, LOL!

How very enigmatic! lol, I am sure there is stuff that is that you could comment on? What about In print Dream Yoga books?

Was the river Hao inside Chuang Zhu? I do know, that he had a butterfly dream, but ...

Sure thing. I'll go along with this. --- "Row, row, row your boat Gently down the stream Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily-- Life is but a dream."

You slander name after name with not one single iota of proof to date. All you have provided are links and complaints that could have easily been forged or created from a single identity. You have accused so many different people now from elijah wilson/ kundalini/ lucas huang/ thetaobum/ (a very close friend who would never even dream of doing what you accused him of) carlo launer (another close friend and one of the nicest guys you could hope to meet) rashidismail and more It's a joke to be honest & why this cyber bullying has been tolerated on a spiritual forum so long is beyond me. All the while dragging the mopai name through the mud. You were even told to slow down from a respected mopai member not so long ago. Did you heed that advice? Your selfish actions speak a thousand words my friend.

A great book, along with "A Glimpse of Nothingness: Experiences in an American Zen Community". Anyone interested in Japanese monastic life, or dream of an American commune life, should give these a read. The author has a unique experience of both worlds, starting off his spiritual seeking by abandoning everything, and his European perspective on things makes for a poignant narrative.

Wu Wei Wu correctly said, there is no humility, only degress of pride. As far as beliving in oneself,...that is a for certain way to maintain a hollow heart. Songwriter Trent Reznor sings, Inside your heart, it is black, and its hollow, and its cold. . . . What if this whole crusade is a charade in the name of the holy and the divine. . . Are you brave enough to see . . . or so naive you keep holding on to what you want to believe? In another song, he sings, Are you sure what side youre on? . . . Feel the hollowness inside of your heart. . . . What if everything around you isnt quite as it seems. . . . What if all the world you think you know is an elaborate dream? . . . What if you could look right through the cracks? Would you find yourself afraid to see? Those are surely some upsetting lyrics for those in denial and without the courage to stand consciously in the presence of reality. Higher frequency has little to do with New Age crystals or stones,...or physical balance. Higher frequency implies clearing barriers to the light and love all people already are. Enlightenment isn't something to acquire or add,...it's about letting of ridiculousness of self-interests. Self-interest is a cancer cell. Anyway, it is obvious we are as about apart as a Christian and Buddhists. Liberal Christians often make statements like, 'deep down Buddhists are really searching for God', 'Buddhism is just a different expression of man's understanding of God', or 'Buddhists are Christians outside the church'. "Sadly, such statements are meaningless. Those kind of statements really show that Christians still wish to claim superiority for their own religion. They also show that the liberal Christian's supposed tolerance is dependent upon believing that Buddhism is just another form of Christianity. In short, it is based on a delusion. Liberal Christians will only be genuinely tolerant when they can admit that Buddhism is different from Christianity, very different, and be tolerant despite these differences." http://www.uq.net.au/slsoc/bsq/budchr0.htm#cont V

Well that was in the 90's Is it me or does it seem like the martial artist from the 90's and before trained harder than the new martial artists now? When I was a young man i trained from sun up till sun down. I sparred everyday twice a day then id train and then id go to class. My main rival and i sparred so much that even if you took 1 day off the basics it showed up in the match the next day. I remember i did this i spent the night before trying to get some new kick. For this action my footwork was so slow that i literally couldnt keep up with him. When he moved i could barley see him. At one point he was standing in front of me in a standard matched lead and then he was at my side and no longer in front of me( I didnt even see him move); at this point i stopped the match i knew his footwork was superior. I learned a good lesson from that about going off track from the basics. Now me and my former sparring partner are both middle aged and we just wonder as we watch the ufc in disgust these men are getting paid to train full time!!!! I should even be able to see them move(is how we felt). Our sparring got so good that it was on an instinct level. After sparring trying to remember what happened was like a dream you remember some parts but not all of it.

No. Rebirth doesn't matter. Nor does non-rebirth. There is no awareness, no rebirth, no wind. There is just hearing the bird, now. Not "hearing the bird, now." "Rebirth" is dead, "awareness" is dead, "wind" is dead. Typing fingers --emptiness is form. Minister Rikuko talked with Nansen. Rikuko said, "Dharma-teacher Jo said, 'Heaven and earth and I have one and the same root; all things and I are one single body.' How wonderful this is!" Nansen pointed at the flowers in the garden, called to Rikuko and said, "People of our time see these flowers as in a dream."

Transcendental God. A belief in no god is about the same as a belief in god,...both are beliefs. All dictionary definitions of god are conditions,...the transcendent is not. God defined by Webster's: 1. A being (condition) conceived as the omnipotent (condition), omniscient (condition) originator and ruler (condition) of the universe (condition), the principal object (condition) of faith and worship (conditions) in monotheistic religions (conditions). 2. The force (condition), effect (condition), or a manifestation or aspect (conditions) of this being (condition). 3. A being of supernatural powers (condition) or attributes (conditions), believed in and worshiped (conditions) by a people, especially a male deity thought to control some part of nature or reality (conditions). 4. An image of a supernatural being; an idol (conditions). 5. One that is worshiped, idealized, or followed (conditioned). A very handsome man (condition). A powerful ruler or despot (conditions). In the 9 dimensions of Vajrayana and Bon, the belief in theism ends at the lower 5th density of consciousness,...what researcher Robert Monroe called 'Religious Terminus.' Although the transcendental can be experienced in lower levels, the transcendental itself begins at the middle 5th density. The 6th is the nirvana level,...7th and 8th, the Vajra and Buddhic fields,....while the 9th is actually a non-dimension, that is, Source. Source is a synonym for Undivided Light. Undivided Light is proof that no god exists. Here and Now. To have a 'here' there must be a 'there' (subject-object, center-boundary, yin-yang). There is no "now" is the "here," just as there is no present in time. Here and Now is thus an important oxymoron for those who wish a more intimate understanding of the first absolute bodhichitta, which is, to see all one perceives as a dream. The 'here', like thought, is always in the past. Anyone wishing to Gnow Thyself (gnothi seauton) must uncover the present. Before one can gnow Who they are, one must realize When they are. The permanent, unchanging Self is not in the past. Individual Wholeness. Individual and Other are delusions of duality, just as One and Many. There is no Individual without an other, nor a One without a Many. In another post I mentioned,...Visualize a keyhole for a moment, one of those slotted holes that can be peeped through, as in old Colonial and Victorian homes. Now, describe that hole. Some may say that it has the shape of a circle with a rectangle whose width is smaller than the diameter of the circle aligned on the bottom; others could respond that the hole is surrounded by a brass plate that is attached to the door, which is connected to the wall, etc. Perhaps the hole could be looked through, so one could remark about what is seen on the other side. However, none of that actually describes the hole; all of the preceding descriptions are narratives about what is around or can be seen through the hole. Nevertheless, that is how most persons, especially Westerners and scientists, perceive their own wholeness: by what is around it. If that didn't satisfy, please continue for clarifications. V

Nice story. If you stay open, you can give love and receive love. Opening up, being yourself, naked, true, spontaneous. However, you are also prone to be hurt. So you must know when it is time to love the earth and when it is time stay calm and detached. If an animal eats you while you are appreciating him, you will become sad and think "why is this animal doing me wrong?" While it your mindset that is innaprorpiate in the firstplace and you are doing thus yourself wrong. It is all an illusion, a dream, if you have a the wrong mindset in any given situation. And since the situations in our life are ever changing, we must constantly wake up, constantly become lucid and aware. You must constantly change the perception of the planet to fit in. To be closer to harmony, effortlessness, the flow. Stay in love mode as much as you can, but learn the typical situations where you must become tranquil, detached, increased awareness of the senses, perceiving perception. Like a samurai warrior, feeling pain and not suffering from it, but rather acting as efficiently as possible and not becoming angry or wasting energy. Ususally these typical situations can be recognized by the fact that your emotions become negative. When you appreciate life, life is ABLE to appreciate you back. When you suffer from life, you become detached so that life cannot possible make you suffer. When you are deprived of life, you start to appreciate it again. When you suffer, you decide not to suffer anymore, by detaching from it. Being reborn in more wise way. You start to detach from all the situations you have suffered, and just observe the pain. But a return to love and a departure from it is just an eternal journey that must be appreciated and detached from on itself. If you appreciate life; some times life does not appreciate you back, other times life appreciates you back. A warrior loves his family, and he is not angry towards the enemies he is forced to fight. In the end, the whole world cries for the battles that has been fought. Why? Because we cannot live without love... We cannot ignore the horrors for ever. The more we cry, the more we see the disharmony arise. That is why your story is so important for many warriors. It opens them up, see their true nature and love. Like Tao Te Ching. Without it, warriors would eventually starve from a lack of love. This way we can live in harmony.... In a cooperative world.

How was he self lit? He independently originated enlightenment without inter-dependent influence? That's not true... From Wiki: Life Tilopa was born into the brahmin (priestly) caste – according to some sources, a royal family – but he adopted the monastic life upon receiving orders from a dakini (female buddha whose activity is to inspire practitioners) who told him to adopt a mendicant and itinerant existence. From the beginning, she made it clear to Tilopa that his real parents were not the persons who had raised him, but instead were primordial wisdom and universal voidness. Advised by the dakini, Tilopa gradually took up a monk’s life, taking the monastic vows and becoming an erudite scholar. The frequent visits of his dakini teacher continued to guide his spiritual path and close the gap to enlightenment. He began to travel throughout India, receiving teachings from many gurus: from Saryapa he learned of inner heat (Sanskrit: caṇḍalī, Tib. tummo, inner heat); from Nagarjuna he received the radiant light (Sanskrit: prabhasvara) and illusory body (Sanskrit: maya deha, Tib. gyulu) teachings (refer Chakrasamvara Tantra), Lagusamvara tantra, or Heruka Abhidharma); from Lawapa, the dream yoga; from Sukhasiddhi, the teachings on life, death, and the bardo (between life states, and consciousness transference) (phowa); from Indrabhuti, he learned of insight (prajna); and from Matangi, the resurrection of the dead body. During a meditation, he received a vision of Buddha Vajradhara and, according to legend, the entirety of mahamudra was directly transmitted to Tilopa. After having received the transmission, Tilopa embarked on a wandering existence and started to teach. He appointed Naropa, his most important student, as his successor.

You're not out your depth. Just consider the nature of meanings. All the things you experience, external and internal have meanings. For example, tea cup means something. It has a certain function. It's used in a certain context. You don't wear tea cups on your feet. Trees have a meaning. Trees do not swim in the ocean. Fish have meaning. Fish don't serve as light bulb filaments. Inside copper wires it is not wind that flows. Why not? Well, that's not the meaning of wind. That is not how we know wind. Now, meanings only make sense in some kind of context. For example, it makes no sense for wind to blow if there is no space. Tea cups make no sense without tea. Tea makes no sense without someone to drink and enjoy it. Fish make no sense without the ocean. The ocean makes no sense without the Earth. And so on up to infinity. This context stretches infinitely and not a single meaning within the context can be called "first." There is no first. And there is no last. When you were born, you recognized people. You did not confuse eyes with squid, even though if your mind were blank at birth, there is every reason to think that your perceptions should have been scrambled randomly or even absent altogether. Right from birth you had enough context to learn a few things. You learned how to walk and talk, but you did not learn what it means for a person to look directly at you. You knew that. Your mother did not have to teach you, "When my head is angled such and such, and when my eyeballs are angled such and such, that means I am looking at you." No one had to teach you this. You knew this and infinitely more from before birth, or else you'd not be able to make enough sense to learn anything. To learn new meanings you need some pre-existing context, which you had. So mind does not start at birth. If the mind did not start at birth, it does not end at death. You may think that something like matter exists, something that is external to mind that backs up appearances. That can be disproved also, but I am not going to do that in this post. There is nothing outside your mind. No matter. No energy. Everything you see is just the play of your consciousness like a dream or a mirage, or like a magic show. You were never born. This world was never created out of matter. Matter only appears to follow the energy conservation principle because of the mental habits you've accumulated from beginningless time, and so on. Once you consider all this it is trivial to see that rebirth is a logical view.

Master Gyozan has a dream. He went to Maitreya's place and was given the third seat. A venerable monk there struck the table with a gavel and announced, "Today the talk will be given by the monk of the third seat." Gyozan struck the table with the gavel and said, "The Dharma of Mahayana goes beyond the Four Propositions and transcends the One Hundred Negations. Listen carefully!" - Mumonkan. 25

"Buddha: With his wisdom, a Buddha really understands the truth, whereas ordinary people live like in a dream, an illusion that prevents us from understanding reality properly." The flesh body color is irrelevant since the flesh body dimension is an illusion. We speak about different "worlds" and I would like to go to a higher "world" soon and stop wasting my time at my current level. I hope you can understand me or at least respect my wish to do that.

We can say the reverse of this. If it weren't for dream contents, there would be no waking life experience. Do you agree?