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Yet, here i am.. I am Life, and living it with unconditional sincerity and spontaneous gusto.. You? you are Life, too.. pretending to be a sage, uttering preposterous unverifiable concepts/mind games.. it's like the marketing scheme of 'prestige pricing', where if you price it high enough, people will buy it simply because anything that costly must be good.. in the spiritual game, people speak with the air of authority and utter the most preposterous impossibilities, and.. yep, you guessed it.. people figure well, either there's some truth to it, or.. that's the most audaciously proud idiot on the planet.. they tend to believing there's some truth to it, simply because they can't imagine anyone that willfully utters such nonsense.. and, dang it, another one takes the 'bait'.. because, if you can get 'em to but that, the rest of the 'scheme' is a piece of cake.. The evidence is clear, we exist and it's not a dream.. still the mind, and see that this is so.. that's all, just still the mind.. notice that nothing changes. Or, listen to the 'stories', and pretend you don't exist, but.. you can't do that with a 'still mind', you have to keep telling yourself the same fairytale over and over.. but, it's your choice.. Clarity or fantasy? Be well..

And where are you? Show me who you are! Who are you? Everything is fleeting like a dream! And one realizes nothing has arisen in the first place. All a play of the void, a figment of imagination. There is no you, there is no I, there is no nothingness, nor there is no beingness, nor is there both. BAHAHAHHAHA!

Mon 03/15 was my 1st full 13 hr shift with 2hr travel round trip after 5wks off with broken foot. Easy night, couldn't really sleep well that A.M. (No Vicodin either) Woke up after 6hrs DEAD TIRED. 0 energy (scary)! Finally had to nap about 8pm my usual peak hr on an off nite. Stayed up with my wife till 3 A.M. Could only sleep 3 hr after that. Went back to bed at 9 A.M. (my usual time on a work nite) and finally woke at 3pm (usual wake up time if working) when in my dream I had to apply brakes for Red light which fired my adrenals and shocked me awake! The above took place over a two day period. The energy I had when it was bedtime felt like the first time I had an awakening. "Use the energy up or it will use you up" type thing.

I bet the bartender is also aware of the dream when he's dreaming. I mean... how do you recognize a Buddhist, Taoist or Confucianist so easily?

Mikaelz, I do taoist practices. I have places to go! As far as I'm concerned, this board is far from awash with advanced practioners of Advaita, Zen or Dzochen and so posting that quote here is akin to advocating introverted quietism and it is all too easy to sit in a dream like state and imagine you are meditating....

Actually that reminds me - what happened to Biff? Biff PMd me saying he had ordered the "Level One sitting meditation" c.d. from http://springforestqigong.com and then the same day he posts a comment stating he thinks I'm a paid poster for springforestqigong.com So I responded to Biff - lets see if I can find it. Meanwhile Biff has vanished like a puff or whiff.... Nope -- anyway yeah I get paid $20 per post. It's a sweet deal! haha. Seriously it's a free radio interview minus the commercials. Me -- I live with my parents -- my dad is a retired lawyer in his mid-70s, and my mom is a sorority gal in her mid-70s. So I got $1000 in the bank from my last job which I quit for numerous reasons, most prominently that I smelled like shit too much because I was eating meat and sugar even though the middle of my brain is permanently magnetized. There is no going back! haha. So now I'm planning on planting some forest crops -- chestnut trees and a nitrogen fixer -- honey locust -- and some apple trees. We got 10 acres although my parents are heavily mortaged with the banks. But still you never know when the economy is going to crash considering there's some $500 trillion floating in speculative derivatives backed up by government bail out money printed on a jobless recovery! haha. Still considering the nuclear fuel rods are all cracking there should be a good power plant meltdown soon that will wake up this rotting empire. Or else all the depleted uranium Gulf War illness -- if not just move to Fallujah right? Nah I don't get paid but I did get arrested some 7 times protesting the Evil Empire -- the Twin Cities is the largest manufacturer of munititions through AlliantTech -- home of the largest depleted uranium weapon producers. I got arrested there a couple times. I also got arrested protesting the nuclear fuel rods stored in the Mississippi river -- that will be nice when the whole down river gets contaminated a la Chernobyl. Yes there's whole towns with children all orphaned and defects, etc. Then I got arrested protesting the clearcut of the sacred old growth forest -- Big Woods maple basswood at the headwaters of the Mississippi and Minnesota river. The Indian first nations would meet there from the whole region. Strange I had a precognitive dream about that protest 3 years before it happened -- and it was the largest police raid in Minnesota history. And then I got arrested protesting the genocide in Iraq -- twice. I got arrested protesting Project ELF -- the nuclear weapons one way First Strike system that was shut down. Did I get paid for those arrests?

Just to be honest, I am not a Buddhist or a 'true' taoist either, so my answer isn't necessarily the taoist perspective. However, if you think about it, you will find the answer. The concept of karma only has a meaning in regard to the afterlife and rebirth. This is the belief-part - whether you believe in it or not, it's your business. Yet, regarding this very life you're living now, karma is nothing more than things which you do, think or say. Now, the main principle is that good or bad isn't interesting in relation with karma. Enlightenment doesn't equal getting rid of negative karma - enlightenment is without any kind of karma. This means that doing things for the sake of a favorable rebirth is not better than doing things for a rebirth in the lower realms - at least in a karmic sense. Whether your deed depletes your bad karma or accumulates good karma depends on the deed itself. When something is the result of bad karma, like long lasting or indigenous illnesses, then doing against these (like helping the sick) results in depleting bad karma. When you simply do good for the sake of good result, that creates good karma. However, the main thing should be getting rid of karma instead of accumulating good karma. Good karma can result in rebirth in a higher realm, but it will never lead you to enlightenment or full liberation. Basically the whole thing is about experiencing anything life throws unto you, without avoiding or chasing any specific experience. This doesn't mean to stop thinking, it means not to cling on a past memory or a future dream. Focus on the present. You know, in my opinion, the essence of Tao can be found in doing the Tao. While you do it, you don't talk about it. While you do it, you don't care about the result of it. Worrying about the result (or anything) is not the Tao. Doing the Tao - in my mind - means living the life as it is, i.e. not for the sake of something what is not, but for the sake of what is. If you do things for the sake of others, for the sake of good karma, for the sake of getting rid of bad karma, for the sake of enlightenment, for the sake of good rebirth, or for the sake of doing something, then you don't do the Tao. Then you're constantly connecting yourself with your past and future. Well, "doing the Tao" might be kind of misleading composition but I think you know what I mean. Oh yes, it's hard. But is worth too.

Fields of Dreams machin dro dream thro china is here

Did you take that shot? Impressive shot. If so, I assume you're using a digital SLR? What a dream... I'm having fun with my little point & shoot Canon digital. Good fun. But the possibilities open way up with the SLRs.

I don't think this is entirely correct. We sleep in cycles of REM and non- REM sleep. During REM sleep, we dream and it is believed that the brain sorts out memories, kind of like cleaning up and organizing thoughts. During this phase, the brain emits mostly theta waves, same as deep meditation. During non- REM sleep, the brainwaves slow to delta waves 2- .05hz. This is when hormones are released and the body seems to be repairing it's self. This deep sleep occurs early in the cycle. Alcohol consumption before sleep will disturb this portion. That is why even when you get your 8 hour of sleep after drinking, you still feel tired. Then we go back to REM sleep and theta state 7-4HZ. But when we return to non-REM delta, we don't go as deep as the previous cycle. By the end of the cycle, we are still going into non- REM sleep, but out brain is in theta. This is why when you get awakened in the middle of the night you feel groggy, but in the morning you awake refreshed. Science is still trying to figure out what is going on during that phase, but they know it is mostly the brain working on memories and things learned. So our body needs about 1/4 to 1/3 of our sleep cycle. The brain uses the rest. Meditating increases out time in a theta state, resulting in less time needed in sleep.

death is but a dream... but sleepless life is not peace restless fires quicken.

grow flowers on them that way the ancestors live death is but a dream...

Hmmm. This is interesting. Two years ago I came across this Tai Chi guy and Fire Qigong teacher who told me he had a recurring dream about an Indian guru who was asking me to come to India and donate money to his cause. He didn't have a clue of who the man was until I mentioned to him the story I read about this suppossedly Indian saddhu with Afro hairstyle who was surrounded by controversy. Then he uttered (after right I mentioned the word "Afro"): That's him! That's the guy I saw in my dreams! Interesting.

Well, well, where to start? That video was pretty nasty and disturbing. However, just to be fair to Sai and his followers, he has reportedly performed feats Chunny Lnn, Wang Liping,John Chang and others can only dream about. It should also be noted Jesus was slandered in the talmud under veiled references. So I'm always reluctant to immediately judge without evidence. Swami Rama was also called a charlatan and like Jesus he refused to speak out against his accusers.Leaving him open to a vicious lawsuit and extreme finacial penalties. One of our own members visited Baba and claims his powers are real[sky or starjumper]yet he derives them from evil spirits. Barbara Brenan [i think] visited him and said ''It appeared as though all tthe energy centers in the universe were centered around him'' Her own healing powers increased after that encounter,so who can say? It should also be mentioned in the book of Enoch it reads''The serpent landed in India'' Anyway,here is a book detailing some f his amazing feats:http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Miracles-Investigative-Phenomena-Associated/dp/0803893841 His charity work-building schools and hospitals should also be marked. Unlike eastern spritual leaders L Ron Hubbard fought back against his accusers [infiltrating goverment instiutions,ecetera] and is criticized for doing so. It is similar to the problem of evil brought up on university campuses: If God is good then why won't he stop evil? Yet in certain passages he is called a juding God and takes action against evil and that is used against him, it seems you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. It all comes down to how people feel about you.

I was almost 130 kg when I started learning the traditional Yang long form with my Sifu. It got me to a weight range and level of fitness where I had much more energy, so I was able to do more exercises. IMHO Tai Chi can make you quite healthy, but not drastically reduce your weight. My Dad is heavier then me ( and older ) and found the pace of progress of the big Tai Chi class learning the long form too fast for him. It became unmotivating for him watching everyone else progress faster. The class is only for 3 months once a year. So it's at a fast pace to learn the entire form to a level where you at least have something you can practice by yourself. Last attempt at it he couldn't stand up for the entire class and would have to sit down 1/2 way through. Of course he did better than those who just gave up and he did keep trying over 3 years but IMHO not enough practice away from class to get any benefits. He has bad knees and for example can't balance on one leg. Even Yang style footwork can be challenging to build up too for many, but you can make it easier. I tried doing that and standing beside him in high stances with easy footwork. But I'm needed in that class to help demonstrate so it was difficult for me to do that consistently. So I tried some standing chi gongs I know instead to take away the weight shifting movement of Tai Chi. (pretty much like what Hundun suggested) Anyhow no luck with the chi gongs, again not enough consistent practice IMHO. I'm thinking of seeing if he will have ago at this I'm attracted to the teachers energy in that youtube. I wish your friend the best of luck. I hope he finds something so enjoyable that he will look forward to practicing every day (IMHO that's the key) It's a battle to move when you are heavy and getting started is very hard. I would love to get any questions feedback. My Dad is a sad story of loss of movement over time, but if it helps for me it was. I'm so fat I'm going to die early (motivation 2002) I'll stop practicing music and really focus on Tai Chi (I've tried several teachers over my life) Tai Chi got me to where I could do Kung Fu (turns out my Sifu taught that too. Didn't think I could ever do Kung Fu , childhood dream, just wanted to spend more time around Sifu.) Wanting to get fitter for Kung Fu that got me attempting combat conditioning. Meanwhile Tai Chi led to doing more meditation. Wanting a meditation teacher led to local Buddhism, Tao bums eventually kunlun then KAP (Like finding my Sifu finding Santi made an enormous difference in my life) Also ended up going to a warrior diet / fast five lifestyle. I'm still fat 110kg but so much more alive (Hundun nice to see you around again)

Wow Maykea brought Drew back =0 lol. Interesting dream.

Funny the only reason I'm reading and responding to this is because I had this intense dream that woke me early. My mom said, "Why are you up?" I said: "I had a bad dream.... well I didn't feel bad but bad things happened." Essentially I was on this boat with this mafioso dude and it's kind of complicated but the two of us were part of a big secret. Then for some reason he went to the back of the boat with several other people and they all got killed. It was disturbing to dream of so many deaths by gun shot. I was trying to think what caused it. O.K. it must have been this documentary I watched a week ago or so called the Soviet Story since I had thought of it yesterday. I never finished watching this as the download I had kept jamming up but there should be some decent downloads out there -- this is a really powerful expose on the Soviet deaths -- as bad as Nazi Germany or Mao or CIA genocides: O.K. I read through this thread now -- Maykea PM'd me and then I searched my name to get to this thread since she said I had been recommended. Maykea you're very lucky to live in Minnesota because you can take classes from qigong master Chunyi Lin who is truly astounding. Watch this Channel 9 news story on Chunyi Lin And then go to http://springforestqigong.com to sign up for classes -- it's through Normandale Community College but the class locations vary. I have not taken a class since 2005 or so -- but there's also meditation retreats as some of the classes too.

A lot a Egyptologists would dispute the shamanic nature of the religion ... because they don't understand it .. but putting this aside a few things are clear. The methods would involve a) contemplating death + after death states b ) ritual including gesture (mudra) and the use of incense c) dream state work d) chanting/ repetition of verses and so on. I don't know about the use of drugs although they had a good medical knowledge and used herbs and so on. I'm interested in the way in which the Sem priest wraps himself in animal skin. This is a recuring theme which appears in what is called the Sed festival - the king goes through this at his jubilee (usually after 30 year reign) where he wraps himself up to be 'reborn' or renewed, also there is a symbol related to Anubis (the god of embalming) called Imy-Ut ('he who is in his wrappings'). It seems like a kind of cocooning which allows internal transformation to occur. I don't know if other traditions have this.

Yup -- the Eranos I Ching (Shantena/Sabbadini). Once I started using it, there's no going back to Wilhelm et al. However, it's been my experience that you need experience to use it. I went through all the versions Pietro has mentioned and more (a rather unique Russian one, e.g., by Schutsky), and kept progressively "growing out of them" to the point where the translator's ideas as to what is being communicated were becoming more and more just a source of distraction and/or irritation. The Eranos version is better than what a native speaker would read in the original, because it lists all meanings of every word, including historic ones no longer in circulation but meaningful at the time the book was written. Some of these meanings are explicitly and refreshingly taoist or even proto-taoist, and can only be understood in conjunction with wider taoist studies and practices. The attempts to tie judgements into actual sentences are mere suggestions (prepositions and conjunctions between words given in a different font, indicating they are absent from the original), and even these I'm finding superfluous. In the preface it is suggested to interpret what you get the way you would interpret a dream -- YOUR dream I might add, which makes sense to you and not necessarily anyone else. With every other version, you wind up with someone else's dreams and their interpretations. Nice to know what the combined mind of Wilhelm/Baynes or the combined mind of Liu I-Ming/ Thomas Cleary can dream up, but most of the time it has nothing whatsoever to do with what the great book is telling ME.

One of the reasons I'm doing this is because, like many others before, I thought Santi was deluded, a huckster, or worse. After taking KAP 1, I no longer thought so. I went on a retreat last year and lost contact with KAP. After some time, the cosmos is suggesting I get back into it. I'm not one to argue with the cosmos. Besides, I want to see where this goes. Things I've experienced so far, on my second round: 1. Increased energy sensations. The energy sensations feel much stronger, to nearly the same degree as solid objects. 2. Increased emotional response. Emotions tend to sweep through the whole body. I'm told this is a more feminine type of experience. Can be dangerous with anger, but not a problem given where I'm at generally. 3. Increased recovery time after sex. Also, less drainage. Overall, increased feeling of being healthy. 4. Increased spiritual insight. I must admit, this one puzzles me, because realization is more about seeing over and over again than anything else. But I'm not one to look a gift horse in the mouth. 5. Increased feelings of bliss, especially on the weekends. 6. Increased inner heat and tolerance to cold. I also noticed that I've been feeling more "off" in the morning, but was able to determine that this was because of dehydration. 7. Increased incidence of lucid dreaming and dream recall. I won't say that KAP is the sole cause of these things as I have been cultivating Buddhist practice diligently for some years. But it is more like KAP somehow "speeds up" the process. I can't say that it is coincidence, either, as this happened last time I started KAP last spring. I can see the dangers as everything is amplified, the good and the bad.

Although I agree that no one can change who you truly are, others can help you find out who you truly are. I think that is my greatest problem. I do not know who I am and what I truly desire other than to end the war between my mind, body, and the world. I wonder in the end if that is all that anyone wants internal and external peace. The freedom to rest. I read in a book that Chuang Tzu (I believe it was him but I can not remember completly) lost his wife. He said that his wife had just lain down to rest and that to mourn his wife as she rested would be wrong and contesting nature. I personally thought this signified more than just that Chuang Tzu did not fear death as the book I was reading stated but that death was the ultimate peace. I view sleep as a peaceful and rewarding and the fact that to go to sleep your body puts your mind in a peaceful state, or sort of neutral state. This gave me another idea that maybe that as we strive to reach higher planes of thought and spirituality we are only reaching for a simple peace. Like, if you spend all day in a calm mood and doing things that feel good and that are good for you you sleep and dream much better than if you were having a horrible day doing things you do not enjoy. I just want to be able to sleep peacefully when my time to rest comes. Oh, sorry for that I got a bit carried away with my thoughts.

Bakuakid, Interesting question. You're really putting me to the task here... --and here's my answer: Both GM Doo Wai's internal systems under the White Tiger Kung-fu banner and Master Share K. Lew's Tan Tan Pai neigong system are both extremely powerful and COMPLETE internal schools and both provide profound anti-aging benefits and impart longevity. Longevity, however, is only a side effect. One can't really compare and rate the effects of GMDW's Qigong against SKL's qigong because the latter is a monastic tradition that started during the Tang Dynasty and with it goes the monastic lifestyle that changes everything if one were to adhere to it; while GMDW's arts were reportedly developed or distilled to their present form in the 1600's by Feng Tao Teh. the history of these Feng Tao Teh's internal arts before 1600 is unknown. Regarding longevity: in the early 1980's, Master Lew was receiving by letter nuanced modifications to one of the advanced TTP Yogas called the "9 Forms" from his teacher in southern China who was residing in a cave and was 128 years old. GMDW's father was not alive at the time for he had long passed of unnatural causes. So there is no way to say which system is more effective in terms of imparting longevity by seeing how long their source practitioners lived. Around 1984 there was an L.A.Times article about a Chinese farmer who was verified to be 140 years old and still leading an active life. There was a photo ofhim. the article said that he still had nice hair and had grown in his THIRD set of teeth. Chinese historians who questioned him said that they verified everything that he experienced as a young child in the 1850's. When asked what he attributed his longevity to, he said "being a vegetarian all his life, never touching a drop of alchohol all his life, and practicing Tai Chi and Qigong since the age of six." What type of Qigong, the article didn't say. So lifestyle plus Tai Chi/Qigong can make all the difference. My experience: both TTP and BFP systems are complete and powerful schools of Yoga* that can create the structural sensitivity and psychic power to experience and literally "see" all life as an energy process, and both systems when completed will empower the practitioner with at least three times the energy level that one is born with and carries into adult life--thus empowering both healing art and martial art to that much greater potency. They are completely different methods of alchemy--that is, formulas to coordinate the functions of eyes, mind, movement and breath to energize the body and mind and purify the spirit. The TTP system is highly structured to train and develop Taoist priests...who can perform spiritual operations as well as masterfully heal and fight with energy. (This is reflected in Tao Tan Pai's subtitle.) TTP is a highly refined system in that it has specific yogas to empower specific physiological functions. For example, one of the advanced TTP neigung exercises completely changes how one sees and hears. All Master Lew said at the time he taught it was, "this is good for your eyes." (LOL) GMDW's tradition develops the same capacity to perceive and deal with spiritual entities but using a totally different alchemic yoga. Its cultivation of mental and psychic powers is profound and of a very different "flavor" than the TTP method. On one occasion, GMDW had me and a fellow classmate, a good friend, practice the same meditation at the same time but 5 miles apart from each other. That night, we both had dreams, except the modality (format) of the dream was completely switched. I had my friend's style/format/type of dream which I had never before experienced in my life; he had my type/format of dream, which he had never experienced in his entire life. The content of each dream "belonged" to the other person, but each of us understood what the dream subject was and what it meant. Now that is what I call YOGA. UNION. GMDW told me throughout my training with him that "healing was the most important thing." While most of the students who gravitated towards him during his life were more--if not exclusively--interested in getting his incredibly potent martial arts,I found that by practicing the healing arts, my martial art got that much better. And I hope I live that much longer as a result! And with that. I will leave you to redouble your practice. Whatever system you have access to that is complete and authentic, I hope you just do it. Best, Terry Dunn P.S. *btw, I use the term "Yoga" in the greatest sense of the word, as used by W.Y.Evans-Wentz in his 1935 masterpiece tome, "Tibetan Yoga and Secret Doctrines"--and DONT' mean the weak, tepid, downstream, over-commercialized Indian-yoga derivatives in America that is truly next to useless (in that it doesn't even bring any lasting relaxation to practitioners) and that continues to spread like a really bad fad throughout society. Indian yoga practice should return to its mode in the 1960's--an exclusive endeavor under real guru's and not under any tom, dick, or jane who practices for 18 months and decides to open a yoga studio.

I'm not claiming to be an expert on Taoism, but what you're pointing out is spot on. I'm afraid you won't be getting any reasonable answers to this. Furthermore, dying is also natural. Trying to postpone dying or to even become immortal is unnatural as well. A lot of people, myself included, believe that a lot of what is called "taoist" is not true to the teachings of Laozi and Zhuangzi. I won't say those deviant teachings are always and completely without value though, because I think it's fine to question anything, including nature. Even a dream body, which we all can admit is completely immaterial, can die in the dream, and is not immortal. As for holding back ejaculation, I think the real reason people do that is to prolong their sexual pleasure. Claiming that it has a higher spiritual purpose is pure bullshit in my view.

You may notice sleeping in the day will make you dream more.. Or if you stay up and sleep in the morning. It gets really whacky when people you dont expect show up in them

There are several different types of sleep. Dreams occur during the REM stage, which is typically the last stage that we enter during sleep. In the REM stage the brain is active and the body is still resting. In stages prior to REM sleep, the the brain is at different levels of functionality, but is pretty much at a lot lower activity than in REM sleep. The body and the mind are resting, so you don't really dream in these stages. You need to get both kinds of sleep. Now, if you are doing dream work, you are really aiming to get that good quality REM sleep, as that is where a lot of stuff is happening. But if you are pushing it for a while, your body is going to need to get those other kinds of sleep, and eventually you will catch up and just go right to a deep sleep, no dreams. Also, as REM stage is the last stage you enter during sleep, the amount of time you spend sleeping is going to affect how many dreams you have/how clearly you remember them. Most people don't enter REM stage until about 3-4 hours after they start to sleep. And even then, not many people recall early REM stage dreams- your mind has just woken up, they are usually pretty fuzzy and not really coherent. Later REM stage dreams are easier to recall because your mind has been active for a while. So examine how much you push yourself to dream, examine how much sleep you have been getting recently, and any sleep patterns. Now in one of B.K. Frantzis' books he mentions that most of the time dreams represent stuff that creates blockages, or are otherwise things you need to let go of through the dissolving practice. What I take it to mean when I hear "high level masters don't dream" is that they have reached a point where they don't hold on to stuff that creates dreams, and their mind is still enough that it doesn't start generating things on its own. When their mind has rested and begins to wake, there is nothing to sort through, it has all been let go, so the master wakes, no need to dream. Needless to say, not a lot of people are at that point