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All this talk about the pineal gland inspired me to visit my inner guru on the mountain. I spent about 40 minutes meditating this morning and opened it back up again. During that time I saw about 100 plus visions and heard/watched at least 15 of my neighbors during their morning routine. Things were moving so fast that it took everything I had to just keep a one pointed focus during all of the transitions. It then moved into a semi lucid dream state where I worked through about 3 dreams with cognition. Then I closed it back up and got grumpy because I had to actually go to work instead of meditate all day. At least it was only a day of acupuncture patients...

I'm not ignoring anyone. I've read every post here several times. I don't know about you all, but I am taking this quite seriously. The whole "listen to the divine" and "go with the flow" and all that stuff is good, and it's something that I've been working at every since I came across taoism (which I got into shortly before I joined this forum, back in September 08) Again, it's not like I'm not incorporating this stuff into my life or practice. It's that I'd ALSO like to incorporate stuff that will also get me what I want. Does that sound selfish? I don't care. Do you think it's something I should have gotten over if I had really been doing serious work for that long? I don't really care. I've dedicated every waking moment to this stuff, and even my moments sleeping (lucid dream exploring), and, no offense to anybody, but this wu wei stuff again isn't getting me where I need to go. HOWEVER, I DO like taoist methods of energy work, like stuff I've read of B.K. Frantzis. But Frantzis is just as "tiptoe around the psychic power" issue as everyone else. The whole, "don't play around with things, it won't give you spiritual advancement", "don't do stuff to tempt the ego", "psychic powers may or may not be real" and all that other stuff. I'm looking for stuff that will work. Sorry you feel like I'm not giving you enough love 3bob (or anyone else that has responded to this thread) but if all you are going to tell me is, "psychic powers aren't the point" or "learn to be like a cat" well, duly noted, your job is done Sorry if that sounds kind of jerk-ish but.... at this point, I really don't care I do really like cats, by the way, though I do live in a college dorm (working on that mundane transformation), so no can do on the cat front.

With some major exceptions, it seems that we all have our unique patterns when meridians begin to open; it just depends on where the blockages have settled into our physical selves. Rising energy seemed effortless compared with descending energy, and I was told that this accounts for why so many westerners can overheat themselves. Getting the cooling current descending is critical. I'm eager to hear about third eye openings. With Bruce Frantzis' dissolving "water" method, Ive been able to pulsate my brow at will. When this first happened, I was flooded with hallucinogenic imagery for several days, and my dream state, which is already spastic, became epic nightly ventures. I did notice a lessening of my libido for a while, and I ventured that this was because my baser energy was melding with higher energy, but I have no way of knowing this. It's awfully difficult for me to quantify all this personal conjecture until I am evaluated by a chi kung instructor. I'm certain at this point that internal alchemy helps your natural talents to manifest. I've always been a text-book left-handed right-brainer with my head in the clouds, so to speak, so I'm awfully excited about crown chakra psychology and what it portends.

Ground control to major Tom keep moving your eyes jing chi shen guts go and gusto if I only have brief moments to look here at ttb I get impressions I am thankful there is a group to even express any of the Taoist style teachigs that I have been wxposed to since crossing paths w many interesting characters in the story if life; what does gung Fu hvw to so with everything the basic conversions from jing to shen are practical and the basis of the first rules of chi cultivation adjusting what u eat how you breath and move. observance of basic cycles reveals yin and yang energies cold hot learning to practice passive and active meditations are par for the foundation work course breathing work will reveal basic signs sighnposts and teachers point the way if u are lucky u discover your natural talents, get in the habit of being inspired by nothing when subtle sensations arrise instead of grasping for what you've never felt anyhow let go more it doesn't matter you didn't dream it up after the pain stops the shake the nerve the mind the thought is it possible that yur pain is a thought? That is the esoteric part of this type of internal conflict resolution it is truly a conscious dissolution solution process. Compass center directions the work that changes shape over the course of a hundred days is sufficiant for openein the gate passes having resources to draw upon are important seeds nurtured planted tended Mint chic chip ice cream if I gotta write it down itihht might was well enough to dhare The fruit of labor being e perienced only upon the plane of theindividual yet e perienced in waves of the spectrum upon every physical z

Sorry she's corny! haha http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread538346/pg1 http://paratopia.podbean.com/2010/01/22/paratopia-episode-51-chris-leask-obes-dream-machines/

It is in the body but is more like the undergirding that supports so to cultivate the normal psychlogixal mexhnusms associated w heat vibration etc are exsausyed first bypassed second it is easiest after you have induced shaking w gung not shake and callit gung but shake your quiver. Menthol breath. This is the layerto cultivate when you areade aware of it by your actions it us difficult to cultivate something if you have not felt it before you can work up to it or you can spontaneously exp it a good teachercn induce it, feel. When you cultivate both aides yi shen temper extreames command lightly heavy thinngs when I have exp it best the blockages are all gone, a steady hum abounds, work is the hum, gung, yi mind manifest anything in the body you can think of like dream state so then this is reversed, then instead of feeling sweat when you work you feel a cool heat, but it only seems to happen after a maintained segment of practice in which you have the chance to experience mind without the effort that is normally involved with both thought and action This is truley esoteric Taoist art and practice here bevise tricks to bypassing the navigational plane of the language barrier alone involves the evolution or deevolutipn the casade or ascend or descent of the one to the tenthousand... And back again. The opening of the passage, it's transit, and safe return.. Being ready does not just mean anticipating attack or offense, it means projecting peacewitan touch. Finding wuji is profound considering the power the imagination plays thus regressive clensing in that clarity playsuchore vital roles in clearing the meridians the zero point in which concept takes shape to action the impotance of unifying thought and action is to make tangible the dream mind pie. The door way opens a frame wirhth gravity to cycles planes without yonder not to increase or decrease youvrid this bit to convergent point after point of coincidental alighnment until the one you is humming and glowing with lively anticipation and ready heart of you who wring the wright song along the cours set ahead one degree after another until the corrective mean trim is complete, at the points the wave breaks regardless of 'practice' it is destiny meaning life purpose reason for being changing lives by default etc some things you see once, and the rest is visable results from those life changing sets of experiences. People are a very unique attribute on earth besides plants and rocks. The possibilities of the various combinations of elements divide and provide a medium in which conciousness can be approached from how the senses blends synthenasia with focus drills to train focus and diaaapatikn into and out of the ennagramic labryth more

'til you drink your dream, fast for three days and three nights, pray, sing, chant, laugh, cry

climb half a mountain one foot on every sea 'til you drink your dream

agharta and drew, ticos are wonderful people and costa rica is beautiful. but i kind of got into a bad space for the last half of my time there and got sucked into a kind of party drinking lifestyle so i sort of missed out on the yoga scene or anything productive unfortunately. speaking of thinking you are at a different level, i was meditating a ton before i moved down there and feeling pretty imperturbable. then all of a sudden i'm on this remote beach with nothing much to do. high quality problem, right, and probably a meditator's dream. but i guess i just wasn't ready for that much "space" and i got sucked into some old humbling patterns. i've been back in the states a month and i already feel saner and back on track so i'm happy about being back. agharta, suninmyeyes, thanks for sharing your experiences with 80/10/10. for the first week of 80/10/10 i also slept a ton and generally felt like crap. but now i have so much energy i don't even know what to do with it all. i too have a history of anxiety and that is probably the number one way to get me to quit anything, if it increases my anxiety i'm out. but in this case, somehow, i had the clarity to just face the challenging emotional stuff that has come up. for example, one thing that was really hard was that for a few days i really felt like a part of me was dying. specifically the part of me that goes to food for emotional fulfillment. it wasn't so much that i was not enjoying the 80/10/10 food, on many levels i was, it's really easy for me to eat sweet fruit, but on another level eating became more about functionality. "i am giving my body nutrition now". that was a hard transition. anyway, had to process some weird stuff, but once i moved through it i've just been feeling better and better with random pockets of awesome and still few rough patches here and there. we'll see how it goes. i'm definitely playing this experiment by ear. sean

I woke up after cuddling with a crow on my shoulder in my dream. Too weird. So I'm thinking why was I getting down with a crow? Then I remembered watching Homer Simpson get down with a pig last night and then I remembered thinking highly of Edgar Allen Poe who has the Raven as his most famous poem. Then I remembered all the crows around my house -- two at the feeder this morning. Ah the love of it all.

Illusion and reality are opposing terms. If all is one opposing term, then the other term ceases to have meaning, and so do both concepts lose their meaning. At a certain level of practice, the world disappears. Then your body disappears. All is seen as a dream like manifestation of the mind.

lucid dream to here there we go, swig the bottle out on the front porch

it looks like a cobweb.. Mind is born from resistance, a duality that happens when any desire rises there is a "yes, I can" and a "no, I cannot" The self learns to experience through the mind and becomes so associated with it that duality becomes invisible. We find our self always within either the 'yes' or the 'no' and resiting it's opposite. The resistance is what consciousness calls "the mind" Consciousness is the self caught in 'doing' which requires effort and increases focus which prevents self recognition -light is always going out and never coming in. We resist external influence more vigorously than our own "mind" and the transference that looks like a web covering everything and going in and out of all bodies is a completely impersonal and random energy matrix that has not its source in any self at all -a dream world. Disconnected from that web of resistances the self manifests -intends from personal desire what ever effect. If you sit still now and be aware of what you call intent and notice the first thought that comes to you, then intend it to dissipate. Now there are two kinds of thought present in this moment. One you intended "to dissipate" and one that arrived form a..where? You know, dolphins intend everything, literally they intend every single breath - there is a difference between intent and mind

OMG!! This topic could not be any more timely for me. I drifted off to sleep last night, with a belly full of unusual supplements that create some rather vivid dream states, and I found myself on the new Mars colony. The only problem was that it was an exclusive community, populated with people who were more spiritually evolved than me. I was angry, baffled, and disappointed, especially when I found myself providing room service for all these folks who wouldn't give me the time of day. I can only infer from this dream that my own communication style in this forum has been wanting. I have tried to maintain a civil tone while attempting to obey the rules of critical thinking, particularly intellectual humility. I have had some measure of improvement, punctuated by very pronounced bouts of belligerence. I have said before that I think it is the anonymous nature of this forum that tempts us into saying things, writing things, that we would never say to each other's faces. I'm guilty of this as well, and I berate myself for it, because I'm old enough to be the father of a lot of you and should have learned to be more compassionate by now. I hope you guys will pardon my lack of charity. I've learned a great deal in here, and it's been a nice opportunity to hone the skills of writing on one's feet. But I should probably come in here less, and focus on what I really want, which is to move the Northwest and find some quiet piece of property in the country where my family and friends can practice the 3Ms- music, meditation, and martial arts. Maybe i'll see some of you up there. Regards, Scott

cos it's such a yawn we'll just switch hemispheres then: lucid dream to here

You got that right about the US dating scene, really sucking for men. But I doubt it's any different anywhere else. All of today's society's are usually dysfunctional. There's no woman in my age group that actually wants to be committed to a relationship. Nobody cares about monogamy. UNless you have lots of money, and are older, or just very fortunate. And women care not for fairness. And all their guy sex friends who just pass her around. They dont care that I might be a rich person in the future, or that I'll be popular, whatever. In the meantime I am a SAD LONELY FUCK. They all just want sex buddies, or whatever you want to call it. No strings attatched , friends with benefits, etc. This isn't really something I can do. First off, making actual friends with a girl is extremely hard, that is if I want to go the "friends with benefits way" which something usually goes wrong because, someone usually develops feelings, or whatever. I also think any unserious relationship isn't really natural. Just because people can use condoms now, everyone wants to fuck around. it shouldn't be like that. So like I said, this isn't really something I can do for one, especially the sex buddy thing. I cannot separate sex with a committed relationship. That's how it should be naturally. And also, it requires that I be superficial, and/or borderline offensive and sexually explicit to an extreme degree. And I simply don't have the guts to do that to any woman without really knowing she wants it. And trust me, girls make themselves completely unnapproachable to me, because I have to be "perfect". There really isn't any woman that cares. I'm not "perfect" because, for one I dont have an extreme amount of money, or I'm not fortunate with a number of superficial characteristics which she may think makes up my personality. I'm also very different, in my society (The USA) my kind are considered outcasts. But me extremely so. it's ok to be an outcast when you're already much older and have experienced a sexual life, or have a partner, but at my age no. It doesn't get you anywhere in life, neither does it get you any friends. I also can't change myself to conform to society. I'm still in college, getting my college degree. When I get out, all the girls will have been fucked senseless the whole time. I don't care who you are, Every girl is getting fucked and fooling around, and by a guy much older than me, with more money, or just more fortunate at the time. Girls don't care about fairness. And so after college, I dont think I want to get with any of those hoes. So much for your "serial monogamy" crap. If they cared about monogamy they would be more serious, even when single, even during college. After college, who knows, you'll meet your dream "boy toy" and you'll want to be with him, but he won't want to because all throughout your life you've been giving it up, and to people you really don't care for, or who dont care for you,and without caring for the consequences. I am not getting stuck with a girl who's mind and body have gone through the havoc of this fake societal sexual structures that are made from this stupid industry.

Is this meant to mean that the Super-person is able to continue meditating while he sleeps, rather than dream? Or does it mean that the Super-person has no desire, and therefore does not dream of those desires?

When you take in the female jing then your penis swells -- it's a real climax with ejaculation -- only it goes up the spine -- not externally -- so the STRESS nervous system is not activated. So when the jing energy is taken in from the female it's actually testosterone! And your voice gets super deep because the testosterone is going up to the brain via the internal climax. That's the jing energy though. The more and more you convert to chi energy the less there is focus on sex. What happens is that after about 10 mutual climaxes (of male ejaculation equivalent) or 30 female mutual climaxes -- the heart chakra opens and it's REAL LOVE. After that when there is any energy interaction with that female the heart chakra automatically opens up -- so it's like head-over-heels in love type of feeling. This is the oxytocin bond -- super strong. In fact it's also tied in with the electromagnetic chi creation out of the heart energy. So it's like the chick magnet on acid -- like you want to physically be attached to the person and you can not help it -- through the electromagnetic energy. But this connection is also through the shen energy so like entanglement photons -- it's a permanent connection of instantaneous love energy. This is why the real yogi masters like Milarepa state they are "fed by the dakinis" because as your energy increases then you will actually have love dreams with the goddesses and this will give you internal climaxes but in your sleep -- and so you are getting the jing energy from the astral realm. Also you will have precognitive dreams about the O at a Ds with actual physical females -- and then the actual physical O at a D will happen with some female -- who you first met in your dream earlier. At this point you realize that being awake is also a type of dreaming as well.

(this from my friend maradann, whom I am introducing to the wonders of Tao Bum haiku ) raising the dead past in a dream we walk up steps his hand warm in mine

Thanks Magitek. I think you are spot-on as they say. The book I linked is also pretty decent, "take off your glasses and see." It makes the same point that vision is not due to eyeball, or at least, not alone. In the book, the author describes one interesting thing. He says he went to a machine to measure his eye lens' refractive ability and according to the machine, he still had myopia. This meant the lens did not focus the light correctly on the retina and machine was able to detect that. However, even so, this guy would read all the eye charts at 20/20. He even invited his friends to help randomize the charts/letters to make sure he hasn't subconsciously memorized the charts. He could see 20/20 even though his "physical" eye couldn't, according to the machine. This is the point where the author of the book realized that vision is not physical. Of course he didn't realize the the physical world doesn't exist as such, that's what we realize here on taobums. But it's not a bad realization for an optometrist. Oh yea, and the author of that book is an optometrist who himself had myopia, this is why he had access to the machine, charts and all that. I've also had a brief moment of perfect vision and I also cannot be convinced that elongated eyeball has anything to do with anything. In fact, I am not even convinced it is a real phenomenon. Unless I measure my own eyeball, I am not going to assume anything about its shape. But even if my eyeball was in the shape of a pretzel, I know I could still see perfectly if I wanted, because after all, vision and all other phenomena are ultimately not physical in nature. They are dream-like visions in the primordial mind.

Hello all, I just had the most incredible experience this morning, and I wanted to clarify a few things before it fades. I am just beginning to practice zen meditation in a modified lotus position, and today I experienced a multitude of things that I'm not sure how to interpret or deal with. I am fairly familiar with relaxing and letting my thoughts drift away, but today I was kind of overwhelmed by a sensation of vibration and a total size distortion (i felt tiny and huge at the same time). I did my best to let this pass as i would a normal thought that has cropped up, but then I began to visualize that i was flying over a mountain range, and eventually settled in a wooded area (seemed like a temple), surrounded by other beings (people?). I felt at ease being there, but i had no idea what to do, so i just tried to meditate there with the others (like being in a dream within a dream). I stayed in this place for a while, but it was almost too much to deal with, so i tried my best to (respectfully) leave this place and make my way back to my own. It was difficult to find myself back in my own room. any thoughts on how to deal with such overstimulating experiences while trying to focus on nothing? my biggest concern was i had no idea how long i had been there, and i had no idea how to know when i had completed my task there (i probably could have stayed there forever!) thanks

<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rq9M1e7tP0&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param'>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rq9M1e7tP0&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rq9M1e7tP0&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object> Norah Jones - Chasing Pirates (Lyrics) In your message you said, you were goin' to bed, but I'm not done with the night. So I stayed up and read, but your words in my head, got me mixed up so I turned out the light. And I, don't know how, to slow it down. My mind's racing from chasing pirates. Well the man in there swings while the silliest things, floppin around in my brain. And I try not to dream but them possible schemes, swim around, wanna drown me in synch. And I, don't know how, to slow it down. Oh my mind's racing from chasing pirates. x2 My mind's racin' from chasing pirates. x2

Well I suppose I will (prepare for lots of devils )..... For about a year and a half now, I've been practicing from B.K. Frantzis' Opening the Energy Gates of Your Body book. I haven't been to any of his seminars or workshops, or studied with an actual teacher, just reading the book over and over again and relaxing and trying to get a feel. In the past month or two, I've gotten a very tangible sensation of qi, and I've started to become more sensitive to the qi of others, as well as environments such as buildings, parks, crowds and stuff. It isn't constant, and it's not perfect, but it's starting to build, which is good. However, one of the whole reasons for my getting into meditation/spiritual exercises was (don't laugh), to get psychic powers (I said don't laugh ) It may sound juvenile, but it's really what's motivating me (and I've had enough sobering experiences to know how not to use those things). I've had some good successes with this. I've been talking a walk through a part, and just felt energy surge through my body. I've been in class about an hour after doing some dantien breathing, and felt a tingling energy moving up my spine (I was trying not to squirm around too much, and just sit still and dissolve it ) I've also had some very powerful revelations about my own mind and how I behave and stuff. The problem is, well, the energy gates exercise is really just the foundation. Higher level exercises are only really taught through workshops and stuff in Frantzis' system. I'm a university student right now, all my available money is going to university tuition. As much as I would like to, I can't drop $400 to pay for a seminar that is in Germany, which would also entail travel expenses. And on top of that, that seminar would be just one seminar for just one next step. The next step would require more trave+seminar, then another, then another, then another. Frantzis in his books has dropped hints like, "these practices may even lead to such things as..." or "some even say they have experienced things such as..." but then turns around and is like, "there is a lot of mystery and secrecy about these advanced practices, and they are only taught to high level students after years of earning the trust of an in person teacher". Which is all good and well but... that's not where I am at in my life right now. As a side note, I've also done lucid dreaming work for a long time, and Frantz's system really seems to fit in with that as well. Relaxation (to help get asleep), a relaxed awareness of the dream (so you don't startle yourself awake), and gentle movements led by the mind (to get you around in the dream successfully) have really helped immensely. All in all, it really fits in with my life. I have recently come across Franz Bardon's Initiation Into Hermetics book, which is pretty much full disclosure, laying it all out on the table. He says it flat out, "do this this way and you will get this result. Period." That's nice, it's what I've always been searching for, I was so happy when I found it.... but the practices REALLY don't vibe well with me. It's very weird. I've tried to integrate, to find the "middle path" so to speak. I've done all amounts of research and meditation, trying to link the things I have felt through my qigong practice to what I am trying to feel in Bardon's practice, but I just can't. As soon as I start practicing Bardon's stuff (or sometimes even just think about it), it's like something comes over me and any progress and feeling I have attained through qigong is disappeared. In another thread taomeow mentioned that some practices cause the mind/energy pathways to rewire, and some practices rewire you in vastly different ways. I think this is one of those cases. As for dreams, I have had dreams in which I have been practicing steps of the IIH, which was interesting. But all in all, it doesn't have the same feel, or transition into lucidity that qigong has provided. In martial arts, I also don't feel as integrated after Bardon's practices. I almost have to switch to qigong mode. Even though part of Bardon's system is development of the physical body, it feels much different from qigong, and again, I've tried to use qigong as part of the physical body training in Bardon's sytem, but the energy seems to be quite distinct. Despite these drawbacks though, and despite the tumult and stress that my mind has been under lately with all this (and other aspects of life in general). I have had several very specific experiences which were distinctly "psychic" in nature. I am doing something right. I am starting to get what I have been after, I just need to follow through, but for some reason I just can't commit. Maybe it is because it is familiar, or maybe because I don't want to lose what progress I have made, but I cannot let go of what I have so far with qigong. It is tangible, my body feels healthy, it dovetails nicely with my martial arts practices, the emphasis on natural movement, relaxation, relaxed focus, strong connection with intuition- all of it feels right for mw (plus I watched a lot of Star Wars when I was a kid, so maybe that might have something to do with it ). HOWEVER, there is no guarantee that I will meet avenues for higher level of study. The future is completely unknown. All I have is the foundation exercise, and I have no idea when (or if) I will ever find a way of learning what I have set out to learn. Bardon's system, however, is right there in front of me. Everything I have ever put myself through has been to get what Bardon's system promises in very concrete terms- not hints, no allusions to stories of various feats, no "some say" or "this possibly could happen" or "this might happen". I just have to do it. But again, whenever I sit down and do it, I feel my body and mind tense, I have to expend a lot of energy just to get a little bit done. Looking ahead at some of the steps, I have even intuitively figured out how to do some of the stuff he says to do- but for some reason whenever I try to do it in the context of Bardon's system, it feels forced and rigid, not lifelike. For example, I am a very imaginative person, I can naturally imagine scenes in my head and play out scenarios, been doing it all my life. But when I sit down and "try" to do it, like in Bardon's step III, I can't do it with ease... but the higher levels are a guarantee. There is also a parallel to this situation in my material life (school + job), but that's a whole other can of worms sufficed to say, this is the big conflict I'm wrestling with. Follow something that feels right, but I have no idea where it's going, just trust that I'll get where I want to go (or realize where I want to go isn't where I should be going....... even though I really REALLY want to get there, yes, I am quite attached to it). Or do something that feels all wrong, but push through it to get to a goal that has defined my life for going on five years, and what has gotten me to the point I am at now (and I don't just mean having this problem, it got me into qigong first ) Consultation with various people have brought up a lot of responses similar to Kate's- namely, paths that are "difficult" are paths that are opportunities for growth. The fact that I am drawn to them means that I see something in them that is something for me to potentially learn. A practice that I am drawn to yet find easy to find achievement in is due in various parts to the nature of the energy it works with, my natural disposition, or my familiarity with similar practices from previous lives. A practice that I'm "familiar" with can on one hand bring rapid advancement in that system, but on the other hand not lead to as much growth as working through another system. I am a kind of laid back person in general, so on one hand I could use some of the more "intense focus" exercises Bardon teaches. But on the other hand, focusing in the way that Bardon teaches gives me headaches after quite a while, whenever I "try" to focus I wind up just giving myself a headache. The "relaxed focus" is something that I have found useful to get to after meditation, but the "try to focus" has helped in some areas- but again, it is a distinctly different type of focus, I feel vary different in each of those states of "focus".

Thanks for the welcome :-) Some questions: - Can there be such a thing as too much Microcosmic orbit? It seems to happen a lot? - Is there a way to tighten the lower anal etc gate with exercises rather than simply the deer close and open exercise? - is there such a thing as a Taoist retreat (i.e. not just Buddhist, not just Yoga, not just KungFu/Martial Arts, not just QiGong) I'd like to try sungazing but it seems like there's been no sun here in the north sea viewable for ages! Had a wet dream last night! I applied the gate a little but when I woke it was a total mess! O well, you live and you learn. edit: Just tried meditating ~8hrs after that wet dream. To my suprise I did get some orbit. Not as much as before but it was working. Therefore I think how much Chi is lost is not related to how much liquid comes out but how much energy comes out.

Hi Hardyg and All! Great question, even if the provocative sceptic! I wouldn't use "seeing everything" as a literal statement, and the "mustard seed" or "grain of sand" works: it is something like the infinitely flexible scalable patternedness and interpatternated resonant nature of all. I first experienced this 50 years ago in my early teens as an after effect or echo effect of intense dry hyper-orgasms as I've explained here and elsewhere in my blogs: http://www.thetaobums.com/blog/artform/ind...p?showentry=224 About a year and a half ago, during a glorious session with my wife in our mutual prostates energies practice, I experienced another form of union with all, and very great reluctance to try to translate it into words, Beyond Words... : http://www.thetaobums.com/blog/artform/ind...p?showentry=229 Just recently, in a long lucid dream, during the process of developing my personal amygdala clicking technique, I have had a third very different version which included dimensions of these first two approaches. I have struggled to put it into words too and am still seeing if that is possible or worth the effort. Here is thread from the Aneros Forum, with a detailed description by a terrified newbie, overcome by the unexpected and unwanted phenomenon. http://www.aneros.com/forum/knowledge-of-t...yond-t4838.html He has since had a second one with added Christian interpretation within it. It is interesting to compare with Dr. Jill Bolte Taylor's experience discussed in her book My Stroke of Insight, and her TED presentation, a link to which is available in the first post in this Aneros thread about her experience compared to others: http://www.aneros.com/forum/jill-bolte-tay...ight-t3897.html As science takes a serious interest at the Mystical Brain: http://www.nfb.ca/playlists/films-scientif...mystical_brain/ None of this reveals some easy answer or shopping list of everything. It is much more an enveloping aesthetic immersive poetic resonance with all. You will know it when you have experienced it. It remains with you always. Although back "here", you never leave it. You have never not been a manifestation/part of it. all the best energetics explorations and voyaging all artform