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Interesting. I had my first ever lucid dream (which came interestingly without any effort on my part to even make it happen) a few days before it finally hit me just last week that there is no objective reality. Anyway, one question I wanted to ask those who, like me, believe that all is mind is: how do you account for the diversity of appearances? I would like to think that though all is mind, one who has realized this is still able to make valid distinctions. Otherwise it seems senseless to me.

What I know are ji ren ( 至人; Super-person ) and Jin Ren ( 真人, Real -person) ;Both refer to some kind immortals . One important saying is "至人無夢" . ( The Super -person does not dream ) .

but Marble, everything that you've described are just phenomenal experiences that appear in the mind. when you gain enough lucidity in dreams you can experience the very same sensual and visual experience, and actually with even more vivid awareness. "No, I did not ignore it. I did agree that people conduct scientific inquiry and there are specific guidelines that are used. I generally accept something that is stated as a proven fact if two or more verifications have been made by qualified people in that field of study. But, there are times where I will not accept something even if these criteria are met because they directly contradict what I have already established as a fact on my own. And there are other things that just don't matter to me one way or the other in the least so I don't even bother my mind with it. " you missed my point, scientific inquiry is not done by robots. it's done by humans, the process is not objective because it is humans that created the process, it is humans that interpret the data, and it is humans that form conclusions about the scientific theory. "But if you argue this point please do not recire some Buddhist writing because you should be aware by now that I don't care about reading that kind of stuff. I stated a number of times that I tried Buddhism as my path but it wasn't good for me so I discarded it." So you think it's only Buddhists that say reality is dream-like? Actually so do Hindus, so do Taoists, so did Gnostic Christians, so did Jewish Qabalists, and many many other mystics. Likewise so did many Western philosophers such as Plato, Plotinus, Descartes, Berkeley, Nietzsche, Kant, Hegel, Derrida, Schopenhauer. etc. I could go on. Point is, this idea isn't Buddhist, its practically universal, so let go of your disdain for Buddhism for a second because that isn't relevant here.

That's interesting because often color-blind people find out about their condition by accident later in life. The color-blind people start out in the world without any indication that there is anything different about them. I suspect many somewhat color-blind people die without even knowing of their condition. Everything you just described I have felt in a dream. Would you say that things I saw my dream exist objectively?

Marble, it's very interesting to me how you're able to so easily and smoothly ignore opposing arguments by ignoring and discarding them and swiftly re-asserting your view without even giving any argument as to why. You're a nice guy, but it's odd that you're here participating in such discussions. This isn't afternoon tea chat, most members here actually care about truth. You stand out to me since it seems you're just making small talk here and truly don't care about figuring things out, evolving, by questioning yourself and your assertions. Maybe you're not on a path and this is all good fun for you, and that's fine, but if you participate in such discussions then participate, truly participate, or else it's a complete waste for you and everyone else. At least put a disclaimer at the end of your post "I don't really care what's happening here but I'll chime in with my opinion anyway" Everything that you have said in response to me, such as the world being proved to exist by your own experience and through science, still does not answer my questions. Science is not some super method, it's used by people relying on their intellect and senses, all of which are limited and finite. How can true knowledge be based on limited senses and thinking ability? You cite your own experience but I think it's obvious to anyone who's on a spiritual path that its our own obvious experience that must bear the most weight in questioning, since what is obvious is usually ~99.9% wrong. Obvious to an ant, is strange to us, but obvious to us is true, how? Are we omniscient beings? "There are scientific processes for testing the validity of a theory" Tell me, who tests these theories? Is it not people themselves? Also you talk about something being true if its relatively true. Imagine you're dreaming, this dream world is completely illusory but it appears before you and you act oblivious to this. for you then, everything that appears before you is true, getting out of bed, going through the motions of life, and you would have the same beliefs because you can rely on them; you would read scientific reports in your dream paper and you would feel totally happy with everything. But, as stated, this is a dream world so all of your beliefs are wrong. So even though your beliefs are true, relative to the dream, in an actual sense they are wrong because they depend on ignorance and illusion. If you were to wake up in this dream world, realize that it's all illusory, would you still act the same? I'd think yes you would still get out of bed and go through all the motions, but would you have the same beliefs? No. what we are talking about here is dismantling the dream by questioning the very foundation of the dream, the foundation which all dream beliefs depend on. these foundations are: the existence of an objective world filled with objects and things, and the existence of a subjective self separate from this world. The first step is questioning how you have come to know what you know and what evidence you have for that knowledge, and the assumptions that you have which that knowledge depends on. The crux of this is the belief that we, the human collective brain, have accurate and sufficient means to judge, make sense of, and form conclusions about reality. All of science depends upon this assumption, and all of your conclusions about your own experience, whatever is obvious to you, likewise depend upon this assumption. Even if you discard science you will undoubtedly fall back on your own experience as something undeniable, the fact of which is so obvious that its unquestionable simply because its before you. The beauty of human existence is not in our ability to know truth but in our ability to realize the futility of this search.

I think for me it is a sense of loneliness. I want others like me in my dream. I don't necessarily want everyone to be like me. I will be happy if there is even 1% of people like me, but if everyone was like me, that would be fine too. In any case, I like what you said there. It's something for me to chew on. This is a well known phenomenon of hypnotism. Memories seem to be attached to the states of mind. So for example, if you are hypnotized and are told something, you may not remember what you have been told upon exiting hypnosis. However! If you are re-hypnotized, you can remember what you were told in the previous hypnosis session. Something like that. Another possible explanation is that the process of consciousness obscures the hypnotic memory upon exit from hypnosis (as opposed to saying that the memory is attached to some particular state). I am not a huge fan of PUAs. I think some of the things they say are valid, but overall they seem to be mentally disabled to me. To make a science out of picking up women is like making a science out of wearing socks. Something that should be easy and natural is turned into a science. PUAs would do well to remember that the whole enterprise started by modeling successful guys, and the very models for the PUA process themselves know nothing of PUA. But PUAs do not try to emulate that natural ignorance. They become over-self-conscious and their behavior becomes artificial as it is restricted by a myriad of complex rules and PUA suppositions. Another thing I find problematic is that according to PUAs women are all the same, and are thus subject to accurate modeling. I think that nothing could be further from truth. Even non-human animals are individualistic, and what to say of humans who, more than any species I know, spread over the entire spectrum of opinions, mentalities, attitudes and behaviors, from one extreme to another (and are subject to change on top of that). Derren might not be Milton Erickson, or it might be that he's in a hurry to get results. Maybe he could do better if he wasn't under a deadline for a show. In any case, I agree that he's not that powerful, but I still respect his level of skill. For some reason I tend to respect hypnotists. I guess that's because I was hypnotized once and even though I snapped out of it, it wasn't easy to snap out. It felt exactly like trying to wake up from a dream I didn't like (which is an ability I have and use from time to time if I am not pleased with some dream). Well, whether or not you think there is something sinister about it depends on your beliefs about people. Are people separate? Do people have a right to their individuality? If you modify someone's behavior or appearance, are you hurting anyone or anything? In other words, is there a victim? Etc... It all depends on your views on these matters. Another thing to consider is... are we not doing it already? Are we not already all hypnotizing and modifying each other ad infinitum? Yup.

This is an unsupported assertion. I guess I don't need to bother with steps 2 and 3. Do you even know how proofs work? A proof begins with an axiomatic assertion that both parties agree on, either explicitly or implicitly. However, if that agreement is not in place, you need to find some common ground first, or you just can't prove anything at all. Another rule of proofs is that you cannot put something that is under dispute into the initial assertion in the proof. So if we dispute the existence of objective universe, and you want to prove that it does exist, you may not start your proof by saying "Objective universe was created X billion years ago." Still making untenable statements! Sound like the New Age ism of "you create your own reality". Ralis, you're being a little lazy in my opinion. CowTao made a decent suggestion for examination. Now, if you don't want to reassess your memories, that's fine. But if you're not even going to bother performing the examination that CowTao suggests, you shouldn't say his statement is untenable. Haven't we all seen entire universes appear in the blink of an eye during dreaming? So we know the mind can do this. There is no question as to whether or not the mind is capable of creating an entire universe in the blink of an eye, right? At least, not for me, since I've seen my own mind do it. The only question that remains is, is this universe here mind created too? Just like the one in the dream? The question is not about whether or not it is possible, but whether or not that possibility is actualized right now.

ABLUTION Washing at dawn: Rinse away dreams. Protect the gods within, And clarify the inner spirit. Purification starts all practice. First comes cleansing of the body -- not to deny the body, but so that it is refined. Once cleansed, it can help us sense the divine. Rinsing away dreams is a way of saying that we must not only dispel the illusions and anxieties of our sleeping moments but those of our waking ones as well. All life is a dream, not because it isn't there, but because we all project different meanings upon it. We must cleanse away this habit. While cleansing, we naturally look within. It is believed that there are 36,000 gods and goddesses in the body. If we continually eat bad foods, intoxicate ourselves, allow filth to accumulate anywhere outside or inside of ourselves, then these gods abandon us in disgust. Yet our concerns must ultimately go beyond these deities in the temples of our bodies to the universal One. After we clear away the obscuring layers of dirt, bodily problems, and delusions, we must be prepared even to clear away the gods themselves so that we can reach the inner One. Deng Ming-Dao

Funny cause I'm recovering from my sister's family visit which required some serious hardcore full-lotus sessions. I was only eating one meal a day and even that was too much since there was meat and milk and fruit, etc. Well I had quite a bit of booze as my antiseptic since my brother-in-law was freaking about my vinegar intake. The booze calmed in. haha. So last night I had this great full moon dream where I was healing someone with this deep intense purple-blue light. When I realized that reality was a holograph in my dream from the healing then I woke myself up. It was inspired by watching the Angels-Shiatsu Paranormaltv documentary I posted yesterday. There's 35 shows in that series -- each an hour long or so -- and there all very well done on all types of paranormal subjects.

It could be argued they are two sides of the same coin..... or two faces of an object with many different sides to it. Again, you have to separate the more serious members from the teenagers with complexes (and in some cases adults with complexes...) I suggest you join the bullshido forum, read through the old threads, talk to some members, find out who is who. There was a thread not too long ago in which some guy was offering Brazilian Jujutsu correspondence learning DVD's to attain a black belt in gracie jujutsu in a couple of months. Sufficed to say, the forum nearly imploded, all the members were all over that. Chinese internal martial arts have also been the subject of a lot of research. There are old threads in which dozens, if not hundreds of videos have been compiled showing tai chi, bagua, and xingyi techniques being used in sanshou competitions. Every once in a while a new member will show up and attempt to trash IMA, and all the members will quickly flame him out of there. Their demeanor is a bit abrasive, but at heart they are good guys, and their motives are positive. For me at least, just because something isn't physical, and just because we can't seem to understand it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. HOWEVER, while I disagree with people like James Randi, and while I disagree with some (or a lot, depending on the situation) of what bullshido does, still, in the middle of everything they have a good point: you have to be able to experience it SOMEHOW. And, there is a distinction between saying, "you have to experience" and "I can make you experience it". Bullshido, by and large, doesn't care if it's something "you have to experience yourself". It's like having a dream. How do you prove to someone what dream you had last night? You can't really (well, maybe you can.... ) but in general, you just have to believe in the other person. The difference is when someone comes along and says, "my qi power can drop a 250 lb professional MMAist because they haven't developed the qi that I have." In that situation that person should back up their claims. ESPECIALLY if 1) they are charging (sometimes exorbitant amounts of) money, and 2) if they are teaching people who are acting under the assumption that these techniques will protect them from a life and death situation. That's when the bullshido fangs REALLY come out, when people start making claims. And if you aren't going to put up, shut up. People like Yang Luchan said his soft style of martial arts could defeat any adversary. And he got up on the leitai and proved it. He didn't sit there saying, "well my techniques would be too deadly to demonstrate on people." His son, Yang Banhou, was a little less nice, but still proved what he could do. Chen Fake didn't say stuff like, "well I can't use my full power against you because you could die", no, he used his soft power to defeat people without hurting them. I believe in qi, yes. I believe it is possible for qi to overwhelm someone to save your life. Do I believe people when they say that they can do it? I have to see it. Most demonstrations I have seen from "qi guys" have been quite pathetic compared to other styles of fighting. A few promising people failed to show at the last minute for whatever reason. Only a handful of people have really proven they have the goods. And if you can do it and are willing to do it to someone, there is no reason why you can't video tape it and put it on youtube. If you want to stay anonymous or keep your training for a select few students, stop bragging about it! Because if you make claims without backing it up, that's what it is, bragging, and trying to hype your school. Sorry if that seemed like a rant, I was writing it with the nicest possible intentions and the biggest smile while thinking of unicorns and fluffy bunnies And no that wasn't sarcasm Keep it real!

Both cats...when annoyed at me...for example, when i pick them up to keep them from running out the door into the apartment hall...will shock me with chi from their bellies. The older one has a stronger current than the younger one. It is quite different from the static electricity buzz you get from petting them. It borders sometimes on painful. I had a former student once tell me two stories about his cat. When the cat stalked prey in the grass he could see it go invisible...as in disappear..not hiding in the grass. The other story he told is that he was having a dream and his cat was dying. It was dying of starvation, getting thinner and thinner. He opened up his eyes and across the room he saw his cat by the empty food bowl staring at him. My first cat told me his name. Both my cats are strays that chose me before they were one year old. The first cat...i did not name right away because i couldn't think of something appropriate. I did call him Sweetie, though. One day we were rubbing foreheads...he had a real intense third eye buzz that was cool to feel. Then I heard this voice shouting in my head..."MY NAME IS HUNTER!" He has been Hunter ever since. My other cat's name is Gary. It just seemed to fit. Dr. Glenn Morris really liked Hunter. I have only had Gary for a year. Hunter liked to be in the room when Glenn and I were teaching at my place. He would curl up behind Glenn on the couch, lay on his back with his feet in the air next to Glenn's lower back, purring like mad. Animals really like Glenn's chi. Glenn used to raise miniature Siamese.

Steve, The most harmful thing is to hold a position that unbalances the muscles of the spine, and to "let go into movement"...especially if it becomes erratic and wild movement! If someone does that, then the tissues are being reprogrammed on a very deep level to be out of balance, and they're probably causing subtle tearing in areas that don't have good circulation only in one half of the body. Not good at all. These are just the physical manifestations of such a practice...the effects are always far reaching, since everything is connected. Other than that, in my experience I just didn't have beneficial effects from "spontaneous" movement, even in the Shuichuan system (which doesn't involve holding a specific position). It opened me up (as any relaxed movement will do...and feeling that you're being spontaneously moved is VERY relaxing), but the energy wasn't being usefully utilized. So I don't see the point in practicing it. Having been through some tough spots, I don't see the point in advocating it for anyone else. Truly not worth it in my experience. I view super subtle movements that are TOTALLY out of one's control, as fine. I think most people who practice anything get it, even if they only do something like sitting meditation. It indicates that there is a blockage being worked on. It's not like you have a choice in the matter to control it, so there's nothing you can do except favor external stillness. Smiling bigger helps alleviate this when it's happening. What most consider "spontaneous" is actually influenced strongly by the same type of mind which is involved in dreaming...the symbolic mind...so after a while the flopping around turns into what should be best called "dream movements". It seems likely to me that this is how all of the spiritual-energetic paths came about: from shamans being moved in this way (by their subconscious), and systematizing the useful movements (healing, protective, etc). But it's important to keep in mind that if you're doing this, you're manifesting your deep mind (with all of your issues and imperfections) directly into the flesh; your tissues being programmed by your deep mind. Not healthy! Instead of becoming like this, taking on sickness and dealing with the dark side of the mind, we should only use what's useful to our goals. This is just my personal opinion. Here's an an excerpt which I stumbled upon once, that I loved, from Basic Magick by Philip Cooper... Unless a person is enlightened, it's unlikely they will know about their own attainment. It's way too easy to kid yourself. As hard as it can be to judge your own attainment, it's even less likely for others to judge it, especially if they're strangers and haven't been paying attention to your every step...even even more especially if they aren't enlightened themselves. You can't tell. If Crowley was enlightened and chose to act deviously, then that is just his choice. I don't personally believe it's a good choice for anyone, ever. I agree with Stigwerd that virtue is the foundation teaching...it should be considered more important than any practice or attainment. If someone is highly attained, yet they are cruel to others, then what's the point? When you're enlightened, you still live in this world...why make it a bad world? It's best to not consider anyone else as being enlightened. It shouldn't matter to you. Your life is yours, and theirs is theirs...you won't be able to attain your own enlightenment by worshiping theirs. They are human just like you. And even if they're nearly perfectly good, you are still prone to being hurt by them, by putting your absolute trust in them. So focusing on teachers is pointless...it's a sure way to be let down...AKA to learn a good lesson the hard way. Teachers are only there to provide the practices, philosophy and guidance for your safety and efficiency.

'For those who dissipated their energy, death is like a fleeting dream, filled with bubbles of steadily fading memories, and then nothing." You see, you don't need to look for dissolution too hard... or for the void... we all get there, if we just sit on our asses...

This is called "bardo" by Tibetans. This is also my view of death. However I am different in that I say waking and dreaming are cyclical. In other words, it's not the case that energy simply fades. Every fade is also a rebirth in process. It's like kinetic energy converting into potential, back to kinetic and so on. Since this process is a process of consciousness, and not a physical process, there is no such thing as friction or loss of energy. It just continues ad infinitum. Soon, new memories appear, and a new person is born. Waking is a kind of dream, and dreaming is another dream and so is death. Tibetans would say, "it's all bardo". There is no state that's not a bardo state of some kind. In other words, folks, you are all dead right now. A-yup. Dead. Yes sirr-ee. You don't think you are dead now, right? Of course not. So when you really die and your new dream begins, you won't think you are dead then either. This is how you go on being ignorant forever, just being reborn forever. Floating from one dream to another and never realizing it's a dream. See, memory is empty. This is why memory can appear. The past can appear. The past doesn't have to be "from the past." When you start dreaming, suddenly there is a coherent, detailed and believable past. You can ask any dream character about the past, and you'll hear a good, coherent, believable story. And all it took was to just close your eyes in bed and relax for a second for all those colorful, vivid, believable stories to appear. So memory appears just like that, together with the visions of the past. This is how time-perception appears. It can disappear and re-appear again. You can change your past, because memory is not solid. The past is not solid. The past is a mind construct. Sometimes it changes by itself due to some traumatic or other events. At other times you can change it consciously. Or you can just be oblivious and float around forever, like ghosts. Just forever floating around, convinced you're all having real life experience. The key to this floating is to never ever question anything. If you begin to question, the dream starts to look less real and more like a dream.

Here's some things I have liked to do, during bad dreams, etc... If you encounter some scary thing, stare it down. Look at it directly for a long time. Make a point to just glare at it, without any emotion. This helps you face the underlying issue, and develops your will power. You can point your index finger at it, which will help to awaken the alert mind and get you out of the hallucinatory state. Moving to touch it will help also get over the fear. There's a Tibetan mudra for "banishing" that I stumbled upon once, where you cross your wrists and pinkies with the palms facing outward, and point the index fingers and thumbs, while bending the middle and ring fingers to touch the palm. They say lesser spirits are scared of it because it resembles the garuda. It works...I think mostly because of the extended index fingers (awareness) and crossed wrists (symbolizes protection). Someone once said that Ya Mu suggested to hiss at it loudly. Haven't tried this but it sounds good, because it'd help to snap you out of it. Another thing is just simply telling it loudly to "get out"...simple, it works. Like I said, all of these things are simply so that you can become more alert. That's all...no magic. Overall, I view "demons" (internal or external) as products of the mind, essentially the same thing as characters in a dream. I think even calling them demons or spirits is a bit delusional. They have no power, unless you believe they do...then really you're just deluding yourself, and causing your own problems in life. In my life, when I dream, the characters don't actually impact my life. I choose my financial situation, my relationships, etc... These characters symbolize the energies of our lives that we've hidden away...that's all. It's a subconscious interpretation...totally the mind. By facing these things, we can become whole and more open...more capable of being good people and living fulfilling lives. Any beliefs beyond this are delusional.

I had a similar experience last week... I was sleeping and in my sleep, i sensed an entity in the room, i couldn't turn around to see it but i knew it was there and i was paralyzed. I tried to move but i felt an immensely heavy force weigh upon me, constricting me, like the entity was pushing down on me, so i couldn't lift of the bed. Suddenly my alarm went off in my dream (i don't actually have one) and i woke up, but i kept my eyes closed because honestly i was frightened of opening them. I kept them closed for a while till i felt calm and had enough courage to open them ready for confrontation and when i did nothing was there. The experience has lead me to reading up a lot about manifestations and demons and spirits and so on and so forth. I feel these are all self manifested and feel they have always existed within me, but as my practice advances and i become purer i feel they are trying to get my attention as i purge myself of anger and jealousy and greed and want and desire. Perhaps the things they thrived on? I suppose anything backed into a corner will try to fight. In the past week i have become more aware of these things and decided to let them be. I thank whatever Gods may be For my unconquerable soul I am the master of my fate: I am the captain of my soul. And if the boogey men in me have a problem with their living arrangements, i am going to start evicting lest they comply with my zen : )

If you think about it, the mudra is one type of energy...its corresponding word (like "rin") is another type of energy, somewhat similar or complementary...it's attempting to convey an archetype, or a specific force. You then add on the mantra, a third type of energy...visualization with color and location, a fourth...etc. These things give the energy more purpose...like various winds all blowing in roughly the same direction, creating more potential for change. All of this is good if it's an authentic system you're learning from. However, I personally prefer doing the kuji themselves. It works. If you're open to it, that's all you need. Why am I like this? Because I haven't found a system which I jive with enough personally...all that I've seen is at least second hand info. This is strange to say since I'm usually not into deluding oneself, but I had some sort of empowerment through dreaming after learning Lepine's version...and the dream mudras differed quite a bit. It was more appropriate to who I am. Plus, using sanskrit mantras isn't for me. I kinda have the feeling that what a person trains should be catered to their individual energy...and the training would have to adapt based on that person's stage on the path. To have this, you'd need a very intuitive and knowledgeable master of kuji-in. Until then, I guess it's good enough to just practice what you know. ... I can now respond to this. Yes.

Science is always changing, always finding new and better ways to theorize about the universe. I've had a deep appreciation for it due to my Philosophy professor, who's also a Physicist, but even he recognizes that science and ultimate truth just don't go hand in hand since science is created by and interpreted by humans. Science posits theories, not facts and all data is prone to interpretation and conclusions are made out of that interpretation by humans [monkeys with very crude intelligent] How will any data found by physicists ever prove Buddhist metaphysics wrong? All Buddhist metaphysics does is show that everything is interdependent and that the ultimate reality is completely beyond human conception. Buddhist philosophy doesn't pretend to posit any truth, it does the complete opposite and forces you to give up that quest. Science is still on that quest and thus will never fulfill it because it's impossible. "God Particle" is actually just an overhyped media term, too bad you fell for it. It makes Christians excited because it could "prove" a prime mover, a substance that everything depends on, unfortunately that isn't the case. Remember when atoms were discovered? O man, people must've thought they were God's lego blocks! And the big bang? That definitely proved God's creation! So why aren't you converting to Christianity already? Doesn't science have all the answer? No, basing metaphysics off scientific discovery will only lead to confusion when those scientific theories change, they are never conclusive... always part of a bigger picture. Anyway, you haven't explained how Buddhist metaphysics will be proven wrong. Any discovery would only, eventually, prove Buddhist metaphysics right because we see the interdependent nature of particles to the Higgs Boson field, the emptiness of mass. First, I must congratulate you on being old; I guess that makes you an authority figure here. Second, if you're going to try to belittle me, at least add more substance to your response. If my arguments are wrong then explain why. My use of pronouns and lack of including animals into the discussion has no bearing whatsoever on what I said. There's no use of even talking about the animals' worldview since they have no language to communicate what they experience. We can speculate that animals do not think about such ideas as 'objective world' since language and thought is required as well as dis identifying with the self as the center of experience, all of which animals lack the potential of, presently. There is enough evidence to warrant a conclusion that animals have a purely subjective experience full of instinctual response, like many and most humans. I generalize humanity as "we", the exceptions are the enlightened who see through their dream-like subjective experience. And, I don't defer to an external authority. a] there is no such thing as external and b] if you don't learn from others then you are thoroughly deluded in thinking you can figure everything out for yourself. I study philosophy for inspiration, not reliance. I'm on a path because it's a silly idealistic dream that the ego can pick its way out of the cage, much easier to listen to the advice of others that have escaped. What's this obsession with individualism you have? It's as if... it's the cosmic point of view.. and not your own... relative..point of view.

Yes, that's the problem... lucid dreaming, and is lucid dreaming an OBE, anytime a lucid dream started, as in I became conscious in a dream it then returned me to my body and tripped the vibration/separation state creating the full experience. But my focus was to create that state and not stay within a lucid dream state. Consciousness is divisible, and the level of consciousness within a lucid dream is far less stark than an OBE, although a level is still there. I wouldn't call lucid dreaming an OBE, it can help lead to it, but it still retains a dreamlike quality that an actual OBE doesn't. Meditation can bypass the need for an OBE, somewhat similar to either going to Africa or simply watching it on TV. Once a person has through a practiced state of meditation reached that level they don't need to leave their body, it's all there and can be viewed. More similar to remote viewing, the practice of one can often lead to the other.

Short answer...YES. It is entirely appropriate for someone who doesn't live in a monastary off the donations of others to ask for payment for any and all services as they so choose. Outside of those living in monastaries or mountaintops these teachers have bills, families to support, mortgages to pay, food to buy and, dare I say it, some luxuries they might wish to have. You aren't unspiritual if you desire a nice, cozy lifestyle for yourself so long as you aren't attached and you also do good with your money. Some folks seem to expect people who have specialized knowledge and who make their only livelyhood teaching to do it all for free. What and get a day job to pay the bills so they can appear more spiritual? It is a dream of many who have specialized knowledge and a passion for what they do to be able to make a comfortable living doing what they love to do. It takes time to set up a curriculum. It takes time to create a product to sell to prospective students. It takes up a lot of time trianing and teaching others even if it something that is fulfilling. Time is perhaps the teacher's most valuable resource because every moment with their students is time away from other important obligations they may have such as their family. At last if they are teaching for 8hrs a day and getting paid they won't need to work a second job to pay their bills and be forced to spend even more time away from their family or even their personal spiritual practices. I don't care personally that guru whatshisface and master whatshisname lived on air and sunlight, only ate the chi of devotees and shit rose pettles that radiated unconditional love...that was a different time even if that kind of stuff is true which I doubt. We live in this world at this time. No one has the right to expect something for nothing and to expect solid, specialized instruction for free in a world where the teacher requires money to survive is nonsensical and reeks of an entitlement mindset. No insult intended. I know certain things and it took me a lot of time (years depending on what it is) and money (specialized trainings, books, seminars, etc.) to learn those things. If I choose to give knowlege away fine, it is mine to give. However I have every right to asked to be compensated for my work and an exchange of energy isn't going to put food on my table or buy my son's clothing for school. If I am fortunate enough to teach full time in the future that will be both my passion and my livelihood and so long as I am honest (which I would be) about what a student could expect regarding what I am teaching them then I have a right to not only ask for compensation but to ask whatever payment I wish. And because I am not forcing someone to accept my training, they can either pay or refuse. I apologize if this post seems angry as that wasn't my intention. It is my goal to teach esoteric/spiritual ideas as I have 25yrs of combined experience with a number of subjects and to see that some actually seem to think that making money teaching spiritual subject matter/practice is somehow wrong is hard to accept. I think that greed is a huge negative, but it is up to each person to find out what kind of livelihood is right livelihood 'for them' and to find balance because. As in all things, one must be careful but I believe a balance is certainly possible. I think it is unbalanced to expect that all spiritual teachers live as ascetics to prove how "spiritual" they are. Love and Peace, Sundragon

Also Try this to see if that "fantasy" may be yours. When you see the scene, if you are in the first person, fix your concentration on an object...it might help you either go lucid or take you into another dream.

This is similar to sleep paralysis -- when you wake up from a dream where you were falling -- or if you wake up in the REM state and can't move but still are in the dream state. It's more common when falling asleep and suddenly the body jumps because the nerves or electromagnetic energy is relaxing. It is activated by the chi and also by the shen (the holographic laser energy) -- it's a minor form of astral travel since we do astral travel in the dream state.

More frequently in the past, I experienced a feeling while laying down. I would be in a meditative, dream-like state where I would imagine all sorts of scenes in my head. There was one feeling I would get when a large geometric object was coming at me or when I was seemingly going down a roller coaster. It was a feeling of my entire body feeling almost a sense of weightless, a pressure akin to free falling. It's hard to explain. Perhaps it's more of a pleasurable pressure placed on my body. I was wondering if anyone else has experienced something like this? Would this be considered feeling your chi?

This is a female opinion. File it under "What do Women Want" My two cents added: "Pornography is just 'fast-food feminine energy', it will always leave you wanting more, with little or no nutritional value. There is nothing ful-filling about pornography, it pales in insignificance to a fully embodied loving woman." Barry Long Porno and masturbation do not teach you how to fullfil and please a woman...it just teaches and reinforces to you how a hetero male (unless you like gay porn) gets off quickly. Porno trains your body/mind to respond to the female body and feminine energy in a specific way. A specific touch or visual of a woman and you spurt and your done. In my feminine opinion, masturbation + porn = LOSER especially if you are a slave to your desires and make this your life's work. I am not alone in this opinion. You are training yourself for premature ejaculation or impotence because the jerk and squirt method will fail you once you are in bed with a flesh and blood woman unless this woman buys into the whole porn mythos that a superior feminine energy gets men to shoot his load quickly. Unaware women buy into that whole porn mythos of what gets men off quickly and incorporate that into their mating strategies. So, in result, you see women acting and dressing (and down to young girls) like a male's dream of a porn star. It becomes a vicious, replicating cycle. Both genders are under served by this. So move your sexual practice from jerk and squirt to making love with mastery. All things in moderation. The rewards are great. Hopefully, this will give you some motivation to become a master in the arts of love. Here is a good books for beginners like you: http://www.amazon.com/Enlightened-Sex-Manu.../ref=pd_sim_b_3 David Deida uses Doaist and yogic techniques in his teachings but refines them for use in modern times and makes them easy to understand from a meditative, seeing a woman as Goddess approach and seeing yourself as an Enlightened Lover.

It seems like this topic comes up from time to time. When is it OK to charge for instruction? Why is it that some teachers stay away from money, while others take it eagerly? I think everyone has the right to decide this for themselves. To help people, I want to share what I think on this topic. It's pretty simple, and I believe you'll see that what I am saying is eminently reasonable. It is OK to charge for teaching if: 1. You're teaching the person a profitable profession or trade. 2. Your teaching falls into an entertainment category. 3. Your teaching aims to support life in some way, such as healing, or survival and similar knowledge. It is NOT OK to charge for teaching: 1. When you make any claims of or references to the sacred. 2. When you lay a claim to spirituality or transcendence of any kind. Some things straddle these categories, but the more sacred something is, the less money you should charge for it. And this goes all the way to priceless. Obviously if you consider something priceless, putting a price of any kind, be it 1 billion dollars or 1 cent will be impossible without lying to oneself and without appearing as a hypocrite to others. If something is priceless, how is it I am putting a price on it? This should be obvious, especially to truly spiritual people. If something is priceless, it is not for sale, but it can be given freely or shared. The simple principle to remember is this: if what you teach is within the realm of convention, if it is worldly and is part of the world, you can charge money for it. If what you teach is beyond the realm of convention, if it transcends this world, you may not charge money for it. Let's go over some examples. 1. I am teaching welding: Yes I can charge money for this. Welding is a profitable profession. My students will make more money than I charge them. 2. I am teaching scuba diving: Yes I can charge money for this. This is entertainment. 3. I am teaching general or basic philosophy: Yes, I can charge money for this. Philosophy is both entertaining and a life supporting practice. It's life supporting in that it helps you think clearly, and it helps to avoid being tricked by con men who rely on logical fallacies and so forth. 4. I am teaching mathematics: Yes, I can charge money for this. This is a general life supporting skill. At higher levels it can be an essential knowledge for some profitable professions. 5. I am teaching qigong and I only claim health or martial arts benefits: Yes, I can charge money for this. Health and healing are life supporting. Self-defense is another life supporting endeavor. 6. I am teaching lucid dreaming and my promotion stresses the fun aspect: Yes, I can charge money for this. This is for entertainment. 7. I am teaching the history of shamanism with the use of shamanic source material: Yes, I can charge money for this, since I am only presenting it as history. General liberal arts education is a life supporting activity. It enriches our life at a mundane level. 8. I am teaching bird watching: Yes, I can charge for this. Entertainment. --------- Now for some negative examples. 9. I am teaching qigong and I make claims of enlightenment and spiritual development: No, I may not charge money for this. I make claims to something that transcends convention and worldliness. 10. I am teaching lucid dreaming as "dream yoga": No, I may not charge for this. I am making a claim to something that transcends convention and worldliness. 11. I am teaching shamanism, not as history, but as a way of life: No, I may not charge for this. Transcendent. 12. I am teaching Tibetan Buddhism: No, I may not charge for this. Transcendent. --------- If you don't charge for something, that doesn't mean you cannot ask for donations. Asking for donations is OK if you don't make the person feel guilty for not giving. Christians break this rule by passing a collection basket around -- this is not OK, because it psychologically pushes people to donate. Setting up an inconspicuous or a modestly conspicuous donation box at the entrance is OK though. It all boils down to this: what kind of relationship are you looking to enter into? Are you entering into a sacred relationship, or into a mundane one? If you want to enter into a sacred or a transcendent relationship, you cannot charge money or barter. This is one of the reasons why you should never charge your children anything, because the relationship within the family is a sacred one. So a father should not charge his son for helping him with math homework and the son should not charge the father for mowing the lawn. The father may give his son an allowance in a way that makes it obvious it's not a payment for services of any kind. Introducing business dealing into family relations breaks the sacredness of those relations. If you are looking to enter into a mundane/worldly relationship, it's perfectly OK to charge money. There are some people who simply don't think there is anything sacred -- avoid these people. There are also some people who say everything is sacred -- avoid these people as well, because to say that everything is sacred is the same as saying nothing is. It's OK to say that what we consider sacred and mundane are non-dual, like light and dark are non-dual. It's also OK to challenge the notions of sacredness and mundanity. But it's not OK to say that dark is light or that anything mundane is sacred. There is a subtle but important difference there. So, as a consumer, if you want to receive worldly instruction for a worldly purpose within the framework of a mundane relationship, go ahead and pay that money. But if you want to receive any kind of spiritual instruction with elements of renunciation or transcendence, with the aim of liberation, enlightenment or a mystical union, within the framework of a sacred relationship, do not pay anything. But you may want to donate something to a good teacher, or to give the teacher food or other life supporting items, or to put up the teacher in your home. And if you're very poor, then don't worry about donations and wait until your fortune improves first.