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Do you know a person who you have not met (not only physically). Wheres does this thing called "arm" begin and end? You have everything to do with how the tree is perceived. What you believe to be "tree" only exists as concepts attributed to a phenomena within the mind. That is like your hand trying to write a thesis paper. It can't. Not as long as it limits itself as a hand. And because you believe yourself to be of the body and the brain, material creations within the dream limited to the environment, you cannot do these things. Thus delusions and false clingings/knots must be let go of. Right. There can only BE I. The capital Self. It is not Brahma, God, Buddha or any of these things. It is right now in the ever non-dual experience. And this is only created according to your own intentions and thought processes rising from the illusionary act of distinction. The contents of the mind are only imprints of "treeness", "Marbleheadness" "Buddhaness," etc. The manifestations of the mind are actually, and truly, of infinite variety.

Hi Mikey, I feel your pain through your post. Life is difficult but also very beautiful and blissful if you have the proper perspective. I can't possibly say anything in a few words to change your life but here are some brief thoughts. Suffering comes from our conditioning. We have been taught since childhood and are inundated daily with certain expectations, likes, dislikes, and desires. We suffer when we want something other than what we have. The pain is in you not in your situation. Other people could be put into your situation and feel as if they are in heaven (Sudanese refugees come to mind). I'm not trying to say - "you don't know how good you have it" but rather "your suffering is in your desire to have something you do not have" and that is completely within your ability to change whether you make any changes to your job or not. One of the popular lies is that you need free time to cultivate. NOT TRUE! It's easy to cultivate when you have no responsibilities but of what value is that when you choose to come back to the world? It is every bit as effective to cultivate while living your life as it is. You just have to be a bit more disciplined and creative. One way to approach this is through mindfulness practice. My first exposure to this practice was through a book by Thich Nhat Hanh called The Miracle of Mindfullness. There are many other approaches to your problem and probably excellent and free websites containing similar information but I found that book very useful. I subsequently found many other ways to move my cultivation forward despite having a demanding full time job, wife, children, and other social responsibilities. It is still my greatest challenge to juggle and balance all of these responsibilities. First - you are important. Don't cut yourself short and don't feel that being selfish about your free time and happiness is a bad thing. It's essential! If you want to make cultivation a priority you can. Don't go out late. Get up an hour earlier and practice meditation before work. Learn a Taiji form and practice every morning and so on. Second - if you are able to leave the miserable dream we call society for a utopian existence, COOL! I've dreamed of doing that but don't have the courage to leave my responsibilities behind. Third - if you choose to stay in the world, make that life your cultivation. Difficult but far from impossible. Good luck!

Well, we agree on one point. That's a start. Hehehe. Only partial agreement here. But we can agree that the chair exists, right? True, you need your eyes to be able to see, whether in color or black and white. Without eye we cannot see. However, everyone else is still able to see the world in color so it still exists for everyone else - in living color! I, of course, disagree with your last two statements. First, my mind is only a part of what I am. I have arms, legs, a penis, etc. All my parts make up what I am. And finally, I don't have to exist in order for the tree to exist. Others will percieve the tree. I have nothing to do with the tree. We are separate manifestations. No, it is a fact. I have on a couple occasions thought that is was going to sit in a chair that wasn't there and my ass hit the floor every time. Without fail. No matter how hard I tried to keep from hitting my ass on the floor the momentum had already started and I could not pretend that I was not falling. I promise you, every time you try to sit in a chair that isn't physically there your ass will hit the floor. Every time - regardless of your illusions or delusions. I cannot imagine that. Sorry. But I get the point you are driving toward. That is why I have already stated in different threads that it is important for us to know our capabilities and capacities so that we can live our life to the fullest. Yes, I can imagine and dream that I am having sex with Halle Berry when I am asleep but really all I am doing is masturbating. Reality is reality. I can't make Miss Halle materialize in my bed - I have already tried. You are playing with the word 'fly'. That's not fair. Yes, I have visited my favorite place in Italy a view times in the past. It is a very special place. I was physically there a number of times. But in my imagination my visits are only the memories of when I physically there. I really din't go there - I only remembered the past experiences and replay them in my mind. I was still physically in Florida. But remember, that was an illusion - it wasn't reality. I recognize it for what it is. That is the difference between imagination and illusions and delusions. Peace & Love!

Yes, they share the same state of perception. You would not see the chair, but you will still feel the chair due to your perception of touch. When I close my eyes, the world exists without color. Sounds do not exist as sounds but wavelengths when you do not hear them but measure them accordingly. Yup, you've never not had a mind. You have always had it, because you ARE it. In fact, everything that is existent is of the mind, otherwise, how can you know that it exists? No that is the belief created from your identification of the analytical mind. You are trying to create something with a dead paint brush. You CAN do so, and that is why you believe you have a free will as a body, but really, the potentials of creation here is infinite once illusionary identity and habits are let go of. Imagine a person who thinks he is his hand. He believe he can only act as his hand and nothing else, and believes it to be the source of all his actions. Now he suffers very much because the hand has a very limited ability to create and choose what it would do. But on inquiring into the source of the hand's movement, he comes to know his brain. Whoa! Now he has so many tools to move, to live, to activate! . (A crude example I know). A whole new world opens up to him and the hand is no longer in conflict with the body. You can fly, only if you learn how to dream right. But you wouldn't really be flying, because you are simply making that reality come true. There is no movement here, only a perceptual deception. You think you move, because you believe you are controlling the body in a set environment. There is no set environment. All is the creation of the mind.

Yes, everything is the Mind. Identity is thought construct when there is a dual perspective arising. Such as "I am the body" and "you are the other body." There is nothing to label, because you are already it, and you can only BE it. When in a dream, you marry, become wealthy, have children, grow old, but then suddenly wake up, can you say that the world in which you have lived in the dream is real? Or not real? Where did the characters in your dream come from? The thought that each mind-stream depends on others for survival is very tricky. My answer to that is that there are only imprints of other realities that take form in our own mind. I gave the example of a tree. The tree rises in your own mind because your mind has attained the ability to create it. Actually it is the only thing it knows how to create: a human entity living in a human world. The tree essence, its characteristics and such, exists. But no tree is found. Only the idea is entertained. No there is no Godhead. All there is is you, and I. The idea of a Godhead can be there, and that will be the reality you project as your mind transitions into a newer state of creation. I can't project my ego onto reality. Reality is my ego. I hold all the Buddhist methods to be valid. They are to deconstruct the illusion within the dream. So is Compassion, so is Selflessness. All this too is dreampt up by the mind in order to become Awake into a state of total potential and complete freedom. No longer chained by its own creations, the servant ceases to be the master.

Well, I just thought I would mention that I do not agree with what y'all are saying here. I am not a dream. Reality is not a dream. Reality existed before I was born so there is no way reality is a figment of my imagination. Now, I realize that y'all don't care that I disagree with you but for me that doesn't matter either. If one has just a little reliance on science we must agree that this physical universe is approximately 13.7 billion years old. I am no where near that age nor is anyone else on this planet. Our species goes back only 4 million years. I suggest that if we are unable to distinguish between our physical reality and our illusions and delusions we are going to always have a very complicated life. KISS! (Keep it simply stupid.) Peace & Love!

You sound like a sincere and good person to me. You don't have ostentatious desires and if anyone, certainly you deserve a good life, a much better life than what our society has afforded you. I strongly believe that a huge reason you are experiencing this is because of our greed-driven "I got mine, fuck everyone else" culture and society. So about 70% of the responsibility for this goes to the asshole employers and to the asshole bankers and so forth. These guys are leeching off our society in an tremendous way. Wealth disparity is at the highest levels ever in USA, and USA is beginning to resemble a banana republic. Ok, but how does this help you? Well, I believe 30% of the responsibility for your predicament still falls on you. In other words, you're not a complete victim. In some measure you've done this to yourself through ignorance on your part (I wouldn't dare call you lazy, but stupid? Yea, I would call you stupid, in a friendly kind of way). Look at the bright side. You have awakened and you're only 23! Some people realize the same thin you just realized now when they are 50! So you are damn lucky. Count your blessings. First I have to tell you, depending on what/who you think you are, there are two possibilities with regard to death: 1. You will die no matter what. 2. You cannot die no matter what. Both of those are good things if you understand their implications. So if you think you are a definite personality with well-defined, concrete characteristics, you will die. You will die no matter what you do. You can stand on your ears and dance on your finger tips, and you can practice in the mountains for 100 years, every second of your life, and you will die anyway. Why is that? Because it's the nature of concrete well defined things to be born and to die. To appear and to disappear. To come and go. To change. Forever. hmmm Change forever... this seems like a hint, eh? If you think you are awareness and not the objects that appear within awareness, then you will not die, no matter how lazy and stupid you are. You can lay on the couch and eat potato chips for 30 years straight and let your body die from a stroke, and you won't die. You don't need to be some big-shot cultivator. You still cannot die. You can lose consciousness in a ditch somewhere from lack of food and die from starvation and you still do not die anymore than when you die in a dream. What happens when you die in a dream? A new dream starts. That's all. Awareness is not something that appears or disappears because awareness is not an object that you can behold. If you firmly understand these two kinds of identity scenarios, then death is no longer a threat. But still, you are here and you are alive and you want to have fun and joy and peace while you're here. So even if you no longer fear death, your problems are not over. But at least that's one less specter of fear hovering over your shoulder. I recommend the following: Find a roommate or two to reduce apartment costs. As far as food goes, apply for food stamps or eat in a Church somewhere for free. Some people do well by dumpster diving for food. There might be some tips and tricks associated with dumpster diving, so you might want to read up on it in order to avoid getting food poisoning from rotten food, but I guess most of it is common sense. Or fuck it, steal food if you must because the society you live in is highly immoral and in that case, stealing for survival is OK. You heard me right. Consider living with parents, relatives or friends. Someone might be able to put you up if you explain the situation. Try anything and be very open-minded. Let all the doors be open for you and don't think yourself into a mental corner. If someone stole food from me and I was sure this person was poor/hungry I would forgive them unless I myself was dying or my kids were dying. If you are sure the person you're stealing from is not dying or is at least in better shape than you, then since there is no justice in our society, do what you must. If you steal from me, I accept this as part of my own responsibility. I am partly responsible for the society you find yourself in. So if someone steals something from me to survive and not out of greed, this kind of effect I will accept without hesitation and without complaint. Then drop your second job. Cut your work week to something sane. Maybe even less than 40 hours! Maybe you can do OK with just a part-time job. You may qualify for all kinds of financial aid. Food stamps, welfare, unemployment, whatever. There might be aid available from your state, city, religious organizations -- not just federal. Research! Libraries with free computer access exist (if you lose whatever current access you have). Do not feel ashamed! Take advantage of anything and everything. Get your work hours down to 20-40 hours a week. Then start learning. Learn a profession that's well paid and in demand. It doesn't have to be fancy or exciting if cultivation is your number one goal. Just learn something people need done and are willing to pay good money for. Sometimes people desire unethical things -- do not learn and do those. For example, do not become a stock broker. That's an unethical job, even though you can become rich that way. Your job might not be saintly, but at the very least, try to avoid jobs that hurt society in obvious ways, because part of the reason you are in your situation is because many many other people took those bad unethical jobs for $$$ and it is because of that you now suffer. So don't inflict this suffering which you now do not enjoy on others. When you choose a profession, be very open-minded. For example, have you considered glass blowing? That's a strange profession isn't it? I bet you don't think about it every day, right? Well there are hundreds of these strange professions out there and some of them are pretty decent and interesting. You might be able to become self-employed by selling some items on the street or opening a hot-dog stand or something like that. There are other routes to self-employment. If you can be self-employed, it might be better for you. Alternatively, save up money and take a survivalist course. Learn how to survive in a forest with nothing more than a knife or just your bare hands and clothes on your back. Leave society and go live in the forest. You might be squatting on "someone's" land, but who gives a fuck. Land ownership the way we practice it in the West (where a single person can own huge swaths of land without any kind of social responsibility) is mostly immoral, so just avoid the owners the best you can, but mostly, if you just go deep enough, no one will come looking for you. It's like you won't even exist to the rest of society. This way you can spend all your time cultivating. You'll need to spend some time hunting and gathering, but ancient hungers gathers only spent 20 hours on this! The rest was leisure. It's only when farming appeared that people started slaving and the society began to get stratified into classes (high class vs low class, owner vs serf, etc.). Many sages have gone exactly this route. As a survivalist you don't have to be totally cut off. You can have a friend visit you a few times a year or you might visit a city and take some temp jobs to get items you need before leaving for a long time again, etc. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. Also, if you find friends to do this with, it may become easier as long as your friends are committed. And know that you are not alone. If you find other like-minded people, together you can really do something great, something that's better than just fixing your personal situation. Because long-term we have to fix our culture.

there can be no identity...with the subjective mindstream,, nor with the all pervasive Dharmakaya, because 'identity' is a thought construct, if you are using Yogachara Mind-Only view, then you can see that everything is Mind, but how can there be an I attached onto Mind? there is nothing there to label. even 'self' is Mind, and 'I' is Mind. but Mind is empty and no labels or attachments can be put onto Mind. how can there be different universes? you are really going too deeply into this self concept, like subjective Godheads. since mindstreams are interdependent they lack self-nature. how can separate 'universes' exist if they depend on others for their survival? what you are doing is collapsing reality onto the Subject and really attaching to that Subject, afraid to let it go. but you have to negate that subject and see its interdependency with objects, see stage 3 - http://www.zenforuminternational.org/viewt...p?f=12&t=48 non-dual presence is completely non-conceptual and is free of both the concepts of subjec and object. so the Mind is like one grand being that dreams reality and chooses to experience itself through the human medium? might as well replace Mind with Brahman and you'd be a Hindu Guru It's all one Grand Dream, just dream characters in the one dream of the Godhead. The Buddhists tear this view up simply by pointing out that you're projecting your ego onto reality, instead of a small dreamer there is now a Grand Dreamer. this is Anthropomorphizing at its finest

It is I! . I, I, I! There is nothing but I. There can be nothing but I. It is everything, but NOT everyone. You and I are on a total different plane of existence altogether. Each is his/her universe creating and expanding. Everything is created through the self and is of the self. The Mind dreams. And where do the contents of the Mind come from? It comes from the Mind's choice to create through a medium called being "Human." And in this mode it absorbs the patterns and imprints of the human condition. The "me," Lucky, which you see in your perception is therefore not me but an impression of me reflected as an actualized possibility, a pattern. We are both at a distinct stage in a similar dream.

I meditated some last night before sleep maybe an hour or two at most, in my mind I vividly saw a candle. All of a sudden it blew out, and then I heard a loud metal PANG of my old heater cutting on. The mental image occurred prior to the external event. As soon as I was able to regain my calm, I went back to that state, I saw another candle and decided to blow it out myself, and I heard a loud CRACK, and my bedroom door opened. Has anyone had any experience with pre dream state imagery interactions and their correlation to real world events like this?

After much thought on the concept of D.O., the meaning of causes and conditions, I'm beginning to entertain these ideas. Please criticize. 1) The notion of cause and conditions comes from the act of distinction. What exactly is the cause in any perceived event? Wouldn't it not purely be of the mind's own distinction? And don't our actions and choices arise from such illusions? The boundary between cause and effect is non-existent except within the illusionary perception of the mind. Our perception creates our habits which in turn formulates our choices. All conditions, all phenomena is therefore said to be of the Mind. 2) When one looks to the source of this Mind--of all actions, of all acts of human cognition and reflection, one will find the sense of identity. This is the "I" thought. The grasping of a self. Most people believe this to be within the body as the brain, glands, energies, etc. But in the investigation of the location of the "I" ness, one finds that it is no where, that all rising phenomena within consciousness/experience is itself the "I." Fragmentation of experience is all of the mind's illusionary concepts of boundaries and distinctions. In reality, there is only the Mind. But due to the illusion of causes and conditions, people create their own Karmas and suffer through them. They create their own identities within the dream, as the body, and cycle through their own Perceptions. All phenomena is therefore said to be dreamlike. 3) Free will. If all things arise due to causes and conditions, or parts and fragments, why is it that there is a sense of free will? When I say free will, I am pointing towards the Creative urge. To create, do, evolve, be happy, move, etc. all point to this same arising movement of energy. The basic nature to Create comes from what exactly? More importantly, why does one want to Create? What exactly does it mean to Create something? After all, isn't everyone here because they feel that there is greater potential to their existence beyond the current body and mind? That they can make the apparent choice to transform themselves? To Create a newer reality? What exactly is this? To Create implies a Creator. One's identity, the center point, wherever it may be, is the source of Creation. One can only Create from that identity (For most people, it is through the body and the mind). When there are no causes and conditions, no locality of self, what is the source of Creation? It arises from one's very own Mind, Free Will, and Intent. All phenomena is experienced through the way one grasps onto an identity within one's own Creation. It is the dreamer clinging onto a dream identity, and suffering from the imagined "causes and conditions". He/she lives and dies in his own Mind and it's own rules. Our path is then to rid of the illusionary identity and to return to the state of an absolute Creator (Now, I don't want to say God, since that word carries so many connotations). It is the very essence of the Mind to Create, to Dream, and to revel in its own Creation. To be virtuous, playful, cling, liberate, or whatever action you imagine arise from no where except one's own Mind. There is no other, but "I." Heaven and Earth are "I," the Tao is the "I," "I" am both God and the Devil. This "I" ness, this Creative consciousness is "I." It is ever dynamic and it's abilities are infinite. Everything is created from My energy and creativity. In fact, Everything IS my energy and creativity. There is nothing within Creation that is not "I." (Please note this is very different from Advaitia's Brahma) 4) Then, obviously, who are "You"? I am not you and you are not me. You are a different "I," a whole different universal creation itself. I am only a part of your world as a reflective essence and that reflective essence is simply your own perception. For example, "you" cannot kill "me." It is impossible. The killing would only take place within your own delusion of a self conceived body killing another self-conceived body. The "I" you see is nothing but your own self, something in your own dream. But can you Create from nothing? Do you remember ever Creating "me" consciously? Most likely not. Here we run into the question on the meaning of Creation. Can anything truly be created originally out of nothing? No, it cannot. The artist cannot paint without a subject, the brush, and colors. He draws inspiration from his perception, and likewise, I can only Create through "other." And in this way, we are all "connected." I am in everyone and everyone is in me. The key word in the phrase is "in." The stress must be put on "one" in the word "everyone," because if we say "I am everything" the phrase can suppose an objective universe. This is not so, since everything is subjective. "I" am the Creator, and "you" are the paint, the paint brush, the paper, the mountains (Technically, the true Self is the process of creation. Again, you are your experience and your experience is determined by intent). The tools are as infinite as there are infinite number of beings and universes. Compassion is a means to attain the tools, and Wisdom is the road to Perfection. So when we cultivate, we are cultivating our Creation, not simply our bodies within an outside thing called the world. And this way, your light will be reflected in everyone. .

In realization of course it does. But not in process of explanation, or display of functioning after liberation... Rigpa is still dependently originated and is the fruit of seeing dependent origination and is no different from the Buddhas teachings in essence. You realize the 3 kayas, you see the infinite blue sphere/tigle/bindu spontaneously, which is a symbol of the infinite that manifests for those that see directly infinite dimension and perspective. Have you read the book by Rinpoche, "Dzogchen Teachings"? The one with the flag that looks like an optical illusion... Like I said... if you experience Rigpa, you have a vision of the 6 realms and the 31 planes, not quite as limited as it's said as well... one might even say, infinite realms, but that's not really needed to say as the 6 realms and 31 planes covers all the form to formless paradigms and infinite variations of these. Have you read "The Supreme Source"? It's not that Rinpoche only hits the surface in his talks, but most people don't penetrate it seems or go deaf when he's talking about some of the subtler points, like the tigle and the realms, his talking to alien beings in lucid dream states. Also... have you read the "Precious Vase"? You want me to answer questions but you don't have to I suppose. They don't have a lucid understanding, they are just perceiving. They are not tuned in, they are tuned out, as in overly external, and their cat tail balances them as an extension of their spine to deal with the constant barrage of denser energy perceptions... they are constantly walking smooth, like "cats" on the streets dodging cops, talkin' smooth, who always know what's going on behind them even while talkin' to you in slick ways. Seeing your energy pulse, and knowing if your scared. This is not enlightenment. Sure you can learn from them, but don't deceive yourself thinking it's better to be a cat, or a dude on the streets with animal senses for that matter. p.s. No matter how peaceful Eckart's cats may have seemed sitting there, I bet if you threw a mouse in front of any of them, they couldn't help but follow instinct. Then again... who knows?? There are always exceptions. I know dogs can be conditioned to be more internally disciplined. Cats generally run wild though when faced with something to run from or run after. Don't get me wrong, I am a cat person and have owned a number of cats, and dogs in my life.

I know of one way that I actually FELT. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm a person who really, really despises visualization. I can't get it and if I do get to the brainwave state (to include dream state) somebody else hijacks it.

Dear Fellow Tao Bums, Please forgive me if this post is a little emo, I just found this site and just wanted to get my troubles off my chest.I am 23 years old, and it's been my dream for many years to spend my life cultivating and meditating. I work 60 hour work weeks, and it is really taking its toll on me. I make just enough to cover my bills and save a small amount, and I am a pretty frugal person. I don't eat out or wear fancy clothes, I shop at thrift stores, dollar stores, and budget grocery stores. I don't own a TV or phone only a netbook and a cable internet connection. I've got the cheapest rent I can find in my city, and I don't buy anything unless I have to. I just don't know anymore, working so much and having no time or money it is really hard on my soul. I don't know how to get out of this work, sleep, wake, chores, work, sleep cycle. I wake up each morning and just want to give up, I don't really know what to do anymore. At this rate it will take me 25 years or more to be able to afford a home of my own. I don't have the money or time to go back to school and if I did I wouldn't know what to go back for that I would enjoy or feel is an honest living. I am also scared of death, I guess that is why I am seeking cultivation. I don't want to be destroyed with death, I want to live on. Is this selfish and wrong? I am scared the life I am living will never allow me to cultivate a high enough degree to survive death. If that is the case what was the point of this whole life to begin with? Inside I am very scared, and frustrated with my life. What other living options do I have, there has to be a better way than this. Has any bum here managed to find a way to work less and focus on cultivation more, what is your advice? Your friend, Mikey

I was one of the initial 11 test pilots for this fairly famous study which was designed (among other things) to see if DMT could help advance one on the spiritual path. Rick Strassman, who conducted the study, wrote the book and is featured in the movie, concluded (among other things) that spiritually you get from a drug experience exactly what you bring to it. I am familiar with ayahuasca and I would say Strassman's conclusion holds true for it also. If given the chance to do it again, I'd turn it down. Most of my work in this regard is done through dreams and I have never had a drug experience that could match the finest features out of 33 years of dream cultivation. Plus dreams don't taste bad or cause you to throw up. Ciao

If your practice every day and eventually your mind becomes still during the walking hours, your sleep time should be naturally reduced. I like sleeping but normally 4-6 hours is enough, and that would be 2-3 hours of deep sleep and the rest being a meditative state where you're conscious and just observe the sleep/dream state.

Yes but both are biaural beats -- yet there's articles explaining that using music on top of the biaural beats just drowns out the effects due to non-sine wave harmonics. This makes sense to me and when I tried these various techniques I found the "guided meditations" of holosync to be particularly annoying as well. It should just be the pure sine wave -- but better yet is the monoaural wave -- or "isochronic" because the entrainment produces a larger amplitude effect. This article argues that white noise "ocean surf" is JUST AS EFFECTIVE as any biaural beats -- and I would agree since it's well-proven that white noise creates "auditory hallucination." This is easily demonstrated in the shower -- ever hear voices external to you while in the shower -- messages from beyond -- not hallucinations as much as subconscious theta communication from white noise "ocean surf." Anyway here's this article -- I've never bought not plan to try the isochronic beats (despite it being easier to spell than biaural or whatever! haha). Why? Because at this level of monoaural or isochronic it's no different than just a DRUM BEAT -- which, steady at the "theta" or delta frequency is the same tempo and frequency as the heart-beat as well. In other words the FREQUENCY of the drum head tone is the same as the RHYTHM of the dream beating -- so the two combine to reinforce amplitude. That's why I like nonwestern traditional African drumming -- like the Kenyan Witchcraft Ritual c.d. which I gave to my former co-worker -- but there's also the Bushmen trance dance hand-clapping c.d.s -- hand clapping was the original drumming! haha. Anyway.... http://www.harmonichealingcd.com/pdfs/freq...hing_report.pdf

I believe this is a very good question because I believe your answer to it affects your morals and how you live your life, as well as the quality of life for you and people around you as well. Precisely. It's not an argument because it has no thesis. You're not really arguing for or against anything. You're just restating the Zeno's paradox. However, if I may, I will speak to what I believe is your concern here. Zeno's paradox shows that when you try to find some substance in a boundary, you cannot. However, when we step back and refrain from analysis, nothing is more obvious than the apparently distinct phenomena. For me this is a demonstration how something can be real and yet be insubstantial at the same time. So substantiality is not a necessary precondition for apparent reality. This shows how it's very easy and possible to live your whole life in a dream and not ever know even once that all that time it was no more and no less than a dream. And when I say this, I don't use the word "dream" in a pejorative sense. Dreams are what we make of them.

Hi Kate, Hehehe. Don't give me too much credit here. Most of what I say has already been said by others - I am just using my own selection of words. The scientific method includes varifiability and repeatability. Varifying means that we look at the answer in detail to insure that it exactly answers the question (theory). (Of course, the question needs to have been valid.) Repeatability means that the process can be conducted by others and the same answers result. We can never prove that something does not exist. All we can say is that we have found no evidence that it does exist. Science is currently working on the theory of Dark Energy. They have not yet found proof the it exists because they have yet to find a means of detecting and measuring it. They have found evidence that it should exist because its existence is the only answer to explain events that happen in the universe. So for now it is still a theory - not a fact. Last night I was conscious of dreaming. (My long distance telephone service, of all things. Hehehe.) I normally sleep dreamless. That is to say, none of my unconcsious brain activity was strong enough to transfer into my conscious mind. That I have no recall doesn't mean I didn't dream, it just means that I was never conscious of the event. Therefore I cannot prove that I dreamed but at the same time I cannot prove that I did not dream. I have experienced deja vu once in my life. This is the only way I have to explain the experience. But that doesn't mean I had a prior life. It could have been the recall of unconscious memory that came to fore and I had and have no conscious knowledge of the information. (Maybe something I had heard or read or seen and consciously forgotten.) The thing is, any proof of life before birth or life after death should stand up to the scientific method if there is such a thing. At this moment in time, to the best of my knowledge, there has never been even one study that could be used to prove its existence. Of course, on the other hand, it has never been proven to not exist. I therefore suggest that the probability of its existence is extremely small. I have chose to not believe in the concept. I am therefore right. Others have chose to believe in the concept. Therefore they are right. But this is only on a personal level. And as I have said before, if it helps a person live a fuller life then I suppose that they should continue to believe. It is just taht we should not confuse our delusions with our reality. They have a tendency toward getting us in trouble when interacting with others. Enough for now. Hehehe. Peace & Love!

I never had a great amount of success with the Binaural Beats, but i've been having more success with the Isochronic Beats, i like not wearing headphone's when i'm meditating! Totally agree with the training wheels analogy, gives you a taste, a glimpse, but i'd suspect you can go deeper when you take the training wheels off. Has anyone achieved 'enlightenment' with Binaural Beats? Re the dreams, i've heard a number of sources say that when you cultivate high enough you don't dream (don't have any on hand to refer to though). I assume this is due to the sub-conscious realms becoming conscious.

"I have never seen any scientific study that has ever presented varifiable proof and evidence that anyone has ever had awareness of anything prior to birth." - me neither AND has anyone seen any scientific and verifiable proof and evidence that anyone ever DID NOT have awareness of anything prior to birth? That's the stuff I' d be down for spending research $ on. Why aren't we doing that? "It is true that everyone does not remember their dreams. But not all people dreams in a depth where they had any realization of dreaming so they basically did not dream. Yes, there are those who say that everyone dreams. I do not agree with this assessment. The same applies to after death." - How? You're much better than me for explaining things and I'd love to be able to work it out how the consideration of dreams can be equivalent to the consideration of death. I don't expect an answer right away because people have spent thousands of years on this already. I spend a considerable amount of time on it too. I don't know if I'm getting anywhere much;-) "I cannot prove any of this because it does not exist." - nope, you're usually better than this. - "I cannot prove any of this" - "It does not exist" What form would proof take? Hopefully you see this as helpful (like a cat might help its owner to realise where the fridge is, or what comfy feels like) I'm also doing it to help myself since I haven't honed my logic as much as I should have and you're much better at it that I am.

My abilities to astral project and lucid dream are the direct result of energy work and practice with Robert Bruce's techniques. The friend that I was referring to gained the ability to naturally astral project after a near death experience that he had when he was ten years old. His heart stopped for almost three minutes and he was declared dead, during which time he went done the tunnel to the light and saw Jesus and several angels and a bunch of happy loved ones in a beautiful white place. I highly suspect that he would have seen someone other than Jesus had he been raised in a different culture, but that the general feelings of love and comfort and support would all still have been there. This is a good summation of my thoughts so far, though I am a little hesitant to use the phrase "out there," just because it tends to move the locus of the phenomena away from the observer and I do not know if I am confident enough to do that yet. But there is defiantly something going on.

are the abilities of astral travel and lucid dream a result of your practice or are they innate? i came by an idea that seems to resonate with what you say: - there is definately something going on out there - the human nature influences perception given these facts, we can say with pretty much certainty that we have to work with both our perception and our interpretation of it most of it, it seems, it's outside the boundaries of human understanding. the brain is approximating approximations, so to speak

Hi GiH, Pretty frisky mood you got there so early on a Sunday morning. Hehehe. Nope. I don't remember being born. I remember taking a walk with my mother when I was about two years old so I suggest that it is a given that I was born. No, I don't have to take anyones word for the fact that I was born. We don't emerge from eggs - mammals are all born. That a process of nature. I have never heard of anyone who can honestly say they had awareness of anything prior to birth. Okay. I will rephrase my statement. I have never heard of anyone who claims to have been aware of anything prior to birth that has ever been proven to be an actual fact based upon conclusions resulting from an investigation using the scientific method. I have never seen any scientific study that has ever presented varifiable proof and evidence that anyone has ever had awareness of anything prior to birth. So are you suggesting that I should believe the delusions of people who think they have omniscient powers? You can't be serious. Amnesiacs cannot be discussed in this type of discussion. It is true that everyone does not remember their dreams. But not all people dreams in a depth where they had any realization of dreaming so they basically did not dream. Yes, there are those who say that everyone dreams. I do not agree with this assessment. The same applies to after death. I cannot prove any of this because it does not exist. Noone can prove that something that does not exists just as noone can prove that something that does not exist does not exist. But even to dreams - you cannot prove that the dreams was real outside the dreamer's own mind. Therefore it was an illusion. Nothing more and nothing less. So all I am saying is that if you have no proof of the existence of something why believe it in the first place? All we would be doing is confusing our illusions and delusions with our reality. You did not get laid last night, you masturbated - doesn't matter what you dreamed. None of your reasons stood the test of logic. Therefore I hold to no reason to hold to illusions or delusions. You have not proven reality of before-birth or after-death awareness. All you have proven is that you believe in such matters. I do not. There are no boundries. There are the processes of nature. Understand the processes and we will understand that there are things that lie within the realm of possibilities and other things lie outside the realm of possibilities. But that doesn't mean that things won't change some time in the future or that they may have been different at some time in the past. There was a time on Earth when no living creatures existed. There will be a time in the future when Earth will no longer be able to support life. That's just the way it is. Peace & Love!

But you don't remember being born either. The only evidence you have of being born is indirect. You have to take other people's word for it. Don't you think that's a little suspicious? I've heard of such cases. This is absurd. How could such proof ever be presented? If pre-birth experiences are real, they are like dreams. How would you give evidence of a dream before birth? There is no way! Even those we consider alive cannot give solid proof of their dreams. We just take their word for it. You can measure brainwaves, but there is no way to definitively associate brainwaves with dreams. That's one. Second, amnesia is a well documented fact. People with amnesia do not remember anything. This doesn't mean nothing happened to them within the space of time that amnesiacs fail to remember. Third, not everyone remembers their dreams. This doesn't mean dreams do not occur. These are pretty basic and well accepted facts. No it doesn't. If there is a dream-like state after death, how would you prove it? You cannot. The dead person is no longer a part of your dream but that doesn't mean their own perspective is gone. Let me illustrate it this way. When someone goes to sleep, then in your view, this person becomes a motionless body. But from the dreamer's view, they are in a different world that looks as real as this world here with possibly other people there. Whose view is the right one? Outside of bias, there is no way to say. Yes there is a logical reason to believe such a thing. I told you many reasons. You're just not as logical as you think. You can prove the reality of before-birth and after-death awareness through simple logic. Start with the boundary analysis and take it from there.