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If you have a pet dog, you'll notice that they do this too. There are always things going on in our brains, despite not being aware of it. It's probably some deep kind of dream happening.

I wondered whether there's an 'alternative' explanation for a phenomenon that I occasionally (maybe once every few months) experienced years ago and now very rarely, or whether it is well known in common medicine: What happens is that in bed - as far as I remember typically in the state between waking and sleep - my whole body (pick a word, am not sure which applies best) winces/cringes/flinches/jerks once, like I was scared or touched something hot or unexpected, you know. Very abrupt, very short. Also powerful, but due to the shortness of it not at all violent or problematic. If I remember correctly, usually there was no mental imagery running when this happened, so not triggered by a vague dream or something.

Sounds a lot like Dzogchen Semsde, which is preliminary Dzogchen, thus it leads to liberated concepts of mind, but not necessarily the entire integration that bears the Jalus (Body of Light/Rainbow Body). Still... Semsde is mostly what you'll find on Dzogchen when one roams the internet. Which is the first of the three Dzogchen teaching cycles, because it uses good wording a lot to help the mind relax it's grasping. Semsde = mind, Longde = space, Menngagde = oral instruction or instruction through symbols, are the traditional three divisions, though they are not separate in essence one generally get's Semsde first in order to prepare the mind for Longde, then Menngagde generally happens in private with your teacher, and can happen through dream inference or meditative vision as well.

Interesting...this sounds almost like a higher level version of the same process one goes through when the Ego dissolves and "ordinary" Enlightenment is achieved. Except this time it is dissolving of the non-dual Atman itself. That sounds scary as hell. You are delving (and dissolving!) "God" at that point! Damn...that's one deep rabbit hole into the Matrix. Must go meditate to investigate... edit: It occurred to me - what is to prevent someone from coming back and saying "what is storing all these good and bad karma seeds?" I take it Hindus (and I would presume Muslims and Christians too) would say this "storing" is proof something (the Universal Divine Soul?) is doing the storing. I imagine Buddhists would reply this question is the subtle urge to grasp at "I" and reify by this one particular 'bag of karma' so to speak? What "glues" the "bag of karma" together so that this collection uses that action as proof it is part of a Universal Divine Soul? Is that "bag of karma" mistaking assorted "pressures" exerted from other causes that coalesce to one spot as proof of possessing independent solidity? (By pressures I imagine it like squeezing a tube of toothpaste. The toothpaste will end up on the other side simply because that's where it's been squeezed to.) I see Buddhists as saying this "squeezing pressure of karma" explains the glue and is the Occam's Razor explanation of the 'gluing action'? P.P.S. Final Fantasy 10 Spoiler Alert!!!! You know what's really bizarre? This is all sounding too much like everyone is a coalesced "Dream of the Fayth" just like Tidus was in Final Fantasy 10!

That was awesome Haven't tried shape shifting in lucid dreaming states.... my focus right now is just to move around in a controllable manner and interacting with things I see in my dream. But I will add this to my list of things to do

This sounds fascinating, but I too am wondering what it would look like. It is not so difficult to transform into some animal, but to transform oneself into elemental fire, or a mountain, or wind, or thunder??, or the heavens... If anyone has attempted or accomplished lucid dream shape-shifting into more abstract things like these, I would love some advice. I could see, though, how this practice could have a huge impact on breaking down ones view of self as something fixed and static. I had also just thought that the Monkey King lucid dreaming technique was just for bi-location, flight, size changing, etc. What you guys have come up with presents some fascinating new possibilities for my practice.

I like your thinking changes = transformations too. So does this give us try to lucid dream the book of changes?

Not much info out there on dream yoga practices. http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showtopic=10331

I think Monkey knew the 72 transformations, Pigsy the 36 and Sandy didn't know any. No list of what they were though http://www.damo-qigong.net/xiyou-part3.htm another translation also talks about the 'Three Disasters' Another http://www.canleyvale.hs.education.nsw.gov.../7ee/brenda.htm Perhaps of relevance Asian Mythologies But I fear I'm getting out of my depth with the terminology so I'd better go back to the TV show http://www.greatsage.net/ but I guess the real question is still if doing th e72 transformations as dream yoga is any more useful than wielding the magical wishing staff?

I don't think the 72 are just 72 version of basically the same (shapeshifting). For example monkey king could fly, right? That would be a standard one. +1 He could change his size (very big and very small), +1 He could multiply in many copies of itself at once (I don't know if he could do it, but it happened to me in a dream time ago, so I assume he could as well) +1 become invisible? +1 wisthand heat (remember when they tried to burn him in the pakua?) Also there where a bunch of things he could do with his wand. Would they coun? Essentially Idon't know, apart the first few. But maybe we could read the book monkey kind and just take note. Then next to each we could cite the passage where it is refered to. Those are the situations where Stig. wiki might come out as being invaluable!

My wife and I folded 1,000 origami cranes for our wedding. They made for beautiful wedding favors and decorations for our Asian themed wedding. According to legend if you guys successfully fold all of them, you will have your hearts greatest wish come true. It is very common in Japan and Korea for a couple to work together to fold them all. Plus, the crane is one of the most famous Taoist symbols, representing longevity. Shuo Lao (or sometimes Lao Tsu) is frequently depicted as riding a crane through the air. As for romantic classical Chinese things... The Peiking Opera play on Chuang Tsu, The Butterfly Dream, is rather nice, if you can find a way to integrate it into your wedding. Here are a couple of Confucius quotes that you might be able to use: "It is easy to hate and it is difficult to love. This is how the whole scheme of things works. All good things are difficult to achieve; and bad things are very easy to get." "The moral man and woman will find the moral law beginning in the relation between husband and wife, but ending only in the vast reaches of the universe." I-Ching Quote: "When two people are at one in their inmost hearts, they shatter even the strength of iron or bronze."

Cool. You know what I meant. Nope, only in the Newtonian scale I'm afraid. Ask around if you don't believe me. I never said it applies in the Newtonian scale, but this is how things work at the quantum level. Sure, I believe in impermanence, but I also think the world is caught in some kind of an eternal Catch-22. I think this is best expressed by Terry Pratchett: "Money is not a thing, it is not even a process. It is a kind of shared dream. We dream that a small disc of common metal is worth the price of a substantial meal."

Hi, My name is Zach. I have been a dreamer for many years. During my most recent studies of lucid dreaming, I began looking into Tibetan Dream Yoga. I ended up buying a book called Tsonghapa's Six Yogas of Naropa. It has a long introduction (more than half of the book) and since I've wanted to put some of the techniques involved into practice before actually finishing, I had to do a search on Vase breathing, since I hadn't gotten to the explanation of what that is yet. The search led me to a thread here. I have studied Buddhism for a few years now and had planned to do a study of Daoism next, and so arriving at this forum seemed like a good enough sign to join and begin learning. The only other forum that I regularly visit is Dreamviews.com, but the content of the conversations there are getting old; especially in the religion/spirituality section where I enjoy posting the most, so it seemed like a good time to branch out a little. I'll probably spend some time getting a feel for the place and not posting too much, but I'll be around.

Thanks for the comments and questions Witch. As the book "Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality" states -- there is one dream that is very real for men -- the nocturnal emission. Dreams are bizarre to say the least but always have some deeper symbolic message if not visionary information. A lot of Taoist "sex" doctors -- like Mantak Chia -- recommend physical stimulation for the male's "member." Even "Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality" promotes masturbation for older men to get the juices flowing. When my 24 year old coworker got to that point in the book he took it upon himself to do the "old man's" technique. haha. And when Mantak Chia says that only old men need pornography he's correct. The goal for the male should not be the creation of sexual fluid -- the goal should be the transformation of the fluid into electromagnetic energy which is shot out of the third eye. The energy, internally, goes from kidney to liver to heart and then to the pineal gland. The "microcosmic orbit" or "small universe" is the musical scale practiced over and over again to harmonize the energy -- resonating the fluid -- so ultrasound ionizes the hormones into electromagnetic energy. The heart chakra is the final "lower emotion" build-up. There's five lower emotions to be overcome: sadness (lungs) fear (kidney) anger (liver) worry (pancreas) and overexcitement (heart). Lust from the heart is over-excitement -- which is also the dopamine-serotonin-oxytocin love energy. At that point the person is obsessed or even "posessed" with another SINGLE person. The heart chakra "psychic mutual climax" happens after about 10 mutual climaxes of the INTERNAL reproductive organ - the kidney -- which then clears out the liver energy to open up the heart. The love between the healer and the female is then real love -- heart to heart love -- and the heart connection after that between those two people is permanent from my experience. It doesn't matter if the other female is married, single or even a family member -- because there's no physical contact between the healer and the female. Chunyi Lin's motto is "A healer in every family and a world without pain." In South Asia the young female is considered the goddess -- quite literally in Nepal. The book "Kiss of the Yogini" by Gordon White (I think) -- a California professor. Anyway it's about the Tantric kingdoms of Asia that were big around 1000 years ago and are still left over there (Nepal still has a young female goddess but the tantric secrets have been lost). This is why the Bushmen state they "collect the N/um of young maidens" because the life force energy is strong and it's like an electrostatic discharge -- the young female quickly attracts and fills up with the male electromagnetic energy and then at climax discharges her electrochemical female energy back into the healer. So first the body's energy has to be purified -- in other words the internal climaxes clear out all the shit in the body -- quite literally. When the body is really cleared out it's after a 3 day fast -- or a 3 day "energy feast." That was one of my first "O at a D" tests -- I went 3 days just sitting in full-lotus having psychic mutual climaxes with females. I was never hungry and felt awesome. As Master Nan, Huai-chin states -- the spiritual and the material don't mix and that's why most modern practitioners never even really achieve samadhi (which is the real opening of the 3rd eye -- after the 8 day energy feast (food/water fast). Even then any use of the spiritual powers causes a loss and disharmonization of the energy. So that just means a DEEPER LEVEL OF LOVE -- a deeper level of electrochemical transformation of blockages. As Gurdjieff states sexual energy is the most pure energy for spiritual transformation -- but the other emotions are just repressed sexual energy. Alternatively the spiritual electromagnetic energy is the SOURCE for the electrochemical sexual or jing energy. So as the book "Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality" points out most men go through their life not even realizing that what causes the female climax is electromagnetic energy -- starting from their brains. So sexual energy is the "psychic glue" connecting all the emotions and also our perception of physical reality. If you store up and transform the sexual energy -- the life force energy -- then the "wet dreams" transform into deeper precognitive dreams. Reality is based on complementary opposites which means that our emotional desires are fulfilled subconsciously and thereby "predicted" already without our own conscious awareness -- dreams predict our future by connecting with the universal consciousness. John Dunne wrote a book about his precognitive dreams based on different levels of time -- how his dreams somehow connected to his own future. At this point who we are is pure consciousness -- or clear light -- which observes 3 dimensional reality as the eternal present -- actually living or being what our spirit has connected with "holographically" through our brain -- the third eye pineal gland. The new book http://transcendentdreaming.com is an EXCELLENT description of someone who did ayahuasca and qigong training and now does paranormal dream healing. It's beyond any emotion yet the result is love or healing -- observing all of reality as pure consciousness -- without any intention or conscious thoughts. It's the magic carpet ride -- the rainbow vortex of reality. Physical reality can actually be transformed through intense electromagnetic fields -- science knows that matter is created from energy -- how gamma rays makes electrons and vice versa through antimatter. Black holes, neutron stars -- the universe was actually created out of "nothing" -- the infinite quantum potential as pure consciousness. Quantum mechanics relies on "noncommutative" math -- with a time-frequency uncertainty principle. This is the same as the original use of sound for healing. The more we go back in time (or out into space) the more we actually transform space into our own future time, as Stephen Hawking pointed out about the paradox of the origin of the universe. Meditation listens to the source of sound (the source of time) which creates a nonlinear noncommutative infinite field of potential frequency -- the zero-point field. When this is "harmonized" then the squeezed light -- the whole frequency spectrum -- bends spacetime to create matter. Since the process is a holographic vortex of our internal desire -- our emotions as electrochemical force -- then the whole universe is an interconnected energy process, both being broken up and then recreated. The only thing left as reality is what can not be seen -- but what is listened to -- pure consciousness itself that is the eternal present.

Dayum, what am I, Dr. Bombay? Must just be coincidence. Anyway, the reason I'm reading this thread: Mr. drewhempel, my male counterpart in sexual over-the-top giggle-inducing lovely craziness, I like your priorities. You are not trying to "use" this energy for something unnatural, you are using it as it is intended to be used. For women. I give you a gold star. But I have to ask, with all your considerable gifts and prowess, are you considering a special someone someone? On the one hand finding a girlfriend would probably be considerably difficult with the lack of concern for money and practical considerations--women like those practical men. But it seems a waste to let your talents not be used to their fullest, surely there is some young woman of discernment in your environs? As for the orgasm at a distance thing, I assume we aren't talking nighttime wet dream sorts of things, NOT that I would do that *cough* but rather than a jing shoplifting, a simple give orgasm from stimulation, cause and effect, no I can't do that from a distance, at least not yet. Most men's hearts aren't open enough and even when they are I have to do it chest to chest, although have done it during social hugs, etc., fully clothed with the recipient unawares (until he felt it). The problem with that is unlike giving a woman a vaginal O at D, a heart orgasm triggers emotional connection, so I've learned to be more selective in the men I give them to.

Well i've had a right old good look around and really am enthralled by all the posts and helpfull links on the site. A truley great place to be. I began to read some of Mantak Chia's works a couple of years ago but i'm only really beginning to set out on a well disiplined and consistently approached path now. Ready to completley cut out alchohol and sugery foods etc. Ive had a few musculer skeletal issues for quite some time now and find some relief through a lot of stretching, massage and rolling out, on rollers and ball's etc but every time I have pushed the training any further I tend to experience massive problems around my hip area,, periformis and gluteus minimus. This mainly playing havoc with the sciatic nerve and making relaxed practice a real distant dream... I read in one of Mantaks works that sometimes emphasis can be placed on breath and form to the detriment of the activation of a relaxed state that is prerequisite of any real healing taking place. I was doing Hatha Yoga for quite some time and after a period of time when I was bodybuilding for a number of monthes I had a period of great success. Some really wonderfull results where I really truley relaxed and returned to bliss. At times i could spend 6 hours in one yoga session relaxing completly in corpse pose allowing breath to be guided by a very relaxed abdomen and calmed state of mind. I realised after a while this practice was taking up too much time and that I was unable to advance in other area's of life. I began to practice Astanga Yoga at this point and spent less time in practice. It felt as though I was rushing most of the time though and seemed to lose the profound benifits enjoyed with Hatha. I neglected strength training thinking it to be psychologically unhygenic and around 24-25 years old ran into some serious problems. Hips, Knee's, elbows, ankle's, wrists and shoulders started showing warning signs rapidly. Fluid on knees and elbows , sciatic and arthritic pain, chronically tight, imbalanced and dysfuntional muscles left a tilt in my pelvis , poor tracking through my knee's that seemed to lock and back pain that would intermitantly make everything a real hassle, plus my shoulders click. I'm 27 now and although I have learned to cope with this it still bothers me everyday and practically rules my life if i'm to keep it at bay... I tend to get it so i'm pain free then get on with other things, have the odd drink at weekend, a little recreational sport and i'm back to square one with an ice pack on my back waiting to do mckenzie extentions. Power to anyone who goes through this on the daily and utmost respect to those that have had to deal with it and have beaten it. Well i'm trying really dam hard and have all the determination i need to overcome it i'm sure... Found this forum few weeks ago now and i'm tip toeing around idea's that i can weave into my daily routine to relax and unwind imbalances and improper stacking of bones simutaniously developing strength to do so without having the tightening of muscles in recovery pulling me further out of alignment. I suppose this is my hello to all of you here on Tao Bums, it is my birthday today, I'm 27. I have no real commitments, nothing stopping me from putting all I am into a life of self cultivation and disiplined practice. I've just qualified in holistic therapies, level 3 and gone along to some reiki workshops which granted me level 2. I feel I would like to study TCM next year full time (most likley do a two year degree in London) learn some Chinese and travel over that way for a while. For now the main aim is to realign with those benifits a felt with the hatha yoga the first time so I can begin working in holistic therapies and start earning some money. As you can imagine with the above problems in mind this is not possible at the moment. (I give one massage I need one my self). So each day i plan to do ; A moving qi gong brocade in the morning 30 mins to 1 hour walking (lucky enough to live 2 minute from the coast) 1 hour of gentle standing qi gong excersises 20 mins waking meditation and some inner smile / Microcosmic orbit 6 healing sounds before bed At the same time I have been looking around the area for good teachers of martial arts. I plan to approach some Tai Chi classes. There is also a Wing Chun lesson held every week that is of interest. I live in blackpool and we are fortunate enough to have Master Samual Quok with us who teaches the Ip Man Wing Chun. I keep meaning to go down but so far have not wanted to risk more pain and infalmation or even greater injury so I have resisted, much to my dissatisfaction. Plan is to do the above for 30 days, cutting out alchohol and eating a balance diet of mainly fruit, veg, grains and cereals plus a little meat and fish. I'll have a little look on here from time to time but really must knuckle down to actual practice... P.S. if anybody is still reading this and happens to know how to get the full membership to upload a pic i'm be gratefull if you could let me know. It tells me I lack authorisation when I try. Look forward to being an integral part of the whole ,, Once again, Great place to be, Peace, Love Adoration and Respect BGROUND2

Hi all, I just typed up a long response then deleted it. Sorry, I can be long winded. Kumar, and all my other best Chinese kung fu teachers, told me if you want to get good you have to fight. Until you start winning. That's it. To get good at street fighting, you have to fight on the street. Lose teeth, break bones, go to jail, etc. No other choice. I've settled for mediocre. I spar normal blokes at my own level, and sometimes win. It's an amazing way to learn more about your self and your mind and your body. You only rise to the level of your opponents. I only spar chumps like myself, normal dudes who train an hour or two per day. So I'll always be average. Kumar went a different route. He sought out the best fighters, and lost some and won some. He paid the price physically, mentally and emotionally. Even spiritually. People got hurt. He wanted the skill that bad. I don't want it that bad. Sure I've sparred some ok Muay Thai and MMA bros. They are cool, and they taught me some lessons. But I've never sought to take it to the limit. Fuck that. That's a level of commitment that 99.99% of us will never go to. That's what creates great champions in sport and great martial artists in art. The view of Internal Martial Arts is:If you ever dream of getting good you MUST go out and fight opponents of every different kind, at the highest level of skill you can find, under every rule set you can. Otherwise you will NEVER, EVER, EVER reach a high level of skill. The End. Sincerely, Jess O'Brien

Hi Serene, I think most of the practitioners over here had some experiences with succubus or incubus. They tend to come when you start storing energy. No big deal. You already received many good suggestions. Here are some on top of them. A few things I found helped: 1) be grounded. 2) be prepared to meditate for long in the night, sitted. Just sit and dissolve. Whatever happens you just sit and dissolve. 3) If you really think they are entities out there tell them to go away. They do not belong to this plane! 4) Straighten up your life (For example many people masturbate, and masturbate with fantasies of sexual domination. If you dream (or use to dream) you are in control, then a succubus might try to give you that illusion to get your energy. If you dream that you are being forced (a very common fantasy among women), than an incubus might have an easier game. Stop fantasizing. Stay in this reality! 5) eat well 6) don't stay too much in front of a computer. 7) sleep warm. You don't want to be cold while you are dreaming. You don't want to have your body move out of cold while you are dreaming. Your mind would make a whole scary movie out of that movement. Just add an extra blanket. Yeah, even in summer. Your wei qi is probably down 8) clean the house. Energetically. If you can do it, good. If not call a local priest. Whatever religion is there. Every culture has people that come and clean the house from bad energy. 9) protect your house, protect your space. Statues, whatever you feel is protecting the space is good. 10)You can also take a red string and have it around your waist. Others use jade between the solar plexus and the LDD. I haven't used those methods in ages, but they effectively seal your energy from the outside. Little story. I just bought this house here in Portugal. It was full of religious images. Since I am not Christian I got rid of them. From that moment I started feeling presence. Some nice (the old grandfather who died in this house. Kind of accepting me here, and protecting the house). Some not nice (the kitchen had a really bad energy). This is a farmers house. The kitchen was probably the equivalent of a torture room for the local animals. There were places where they were left hanging, hopefully dead. But you never know, farmers are not always kind toward the animals. Today we cleaned the kitchen, breaking all the concrete that was over the stones, and getting back the old stones. Much nicer. And the energy is much better. We also throw out all the woods, and metals on which the animals were used to be hang. The energy is getting better. But I can see how the old granfather would want to live with so many religious symbols around. PS. those presence are not in a dicothomy to be a materialist. Look at me

A lot of good discussion went on while I was sleeping SereneBlue, I'm gonna answer some of the questions you asked, and how I go through it, but Pietro did a great job of responding already This post might run kind of long, but I want to convey my attitudes in general and towards the experience in depth, for anyone who wants to read First of all, I should mention that I am doing it all more or less myself. I don't have a teacher. The only way that it can be construed as not totally doing it by myself, is there's sort of an introspective club at school that I go to, have some neat discussions, mostly about the meaning of life and stuff, pseudo philosophy, sometimes spiritual sometimes not, every once in a while we have a guest speaker some in, an author, sometimes a professor, I get a chance to talk to them. Sometimes a meditation teacher comes in and I have a chance to talk to them one on one, but I have no formal teacher. I also do a LOT of reading, on the Bums, in every book I can find, eastern and western. I don't keep it just to spiritualism, I also look in psychology, research science, how the brain works. Furthermore, here's my attitude to a lot of things: I must experience it myself Basically, what I mean by this is that you read a lot about people seeing "hell realms", seeing ghosts and demons, getting attacked by demons while you are sleep paralyzed, visions by reptiles and angels, meeting spirit guides, etc etc etc. I read about it, but I try not to let it paralyze me with fear. I haven't experienced that stuff, I don't know if I WILL experience or if I will not. But I won't think about it until I have experienced it. With training and with more clearing and working through some of my stuff, maybe I will open up to ghosts, maybe I will not. When the time comes I will find out. Until then, I don't worry about it. I should also refer you back to one of Pietro's posts, the one where he says in big red letters "stop". A strong imagination is good, thinking about the future and what it holds is good, but don't become obsessed with it and let it paralyze you with fear. Acknowledge that some people have experienced it a certain way, but realize that, first and foremost, YOU MUST EXPERIENCE IT YOURSELF before you can be qualified to assess the validity of other peoples' findings. I haven't seen ghosts, demons, or hell realms, so I can't say if they do or do not exist or if I will or will not see them. It's the same thing with past lives. I've done a few things like tarot and stuff to try to read into past lives, looked at astrology and numerology. Got some rather interesting things. But I've also studied on the scientific part, chance, how cards will fall out, psychology of how the brain interprets the generalities that many tarot guides present for each card. I've tried a few past live regressions in lucid dreams, didn't go too far. Tried to contact spirit guides in lucid dreams, also didn't get me too far (the answers I got were along the lines of "not here, look somewhere else.") So when it comes to any karma I have, I'm not sure. I MAY have certain karmic things attached to me from something I did, but I haven't been able to discover it myself so I don't know. It's hard to explain, your mind has to acknowledge two things as true and false at the same time, sort of like "doublethink" from 1984. Furthmore, as I said before, I read. A lot. I read what other people have gone through, some people have gone through some real freaky stuff. One person in particular I read about was Aleister Crowley. I don't really agree with some of the choices he made, or with everything he said. But there are some things to admire in him, mostly the courage to keep going. He DID it. There are a lot of "magicians" out there who talk a good game, but Crowley went out and did it. Not always the results I'd like, but that's what I keep in mind whenever I have some sort of experience. I have to do it, have the courage to do it and go through with it. Crowley also said stuff like every experience goes into building who you are. Well a lot of people said that. I keep that in mind as well whenever I go through scary stuff. Now on the topic of scary stuff, this is the scariest thing I have had happen to me. Is it the scariest that will happen to me? According to the stories, no, but like I said, I'm not further down the road yet, so I can't worry about that stuff I must experience it myself. My usual attitude to stuff, when it happens to me, is "go with the flow", don't get worked up about it, stay calm, observe what is happening without judgment. I posted a thread a long time ago about some other experience that I had after a lucid dream. As it happened yes, it was freaky, but I was determined not to freak out, and stay present through the experience. It passed. I didn't know what it was, but it didn't scare me. This, though, was MUCH harder to stay present through. I really wanted to stay present through it. As it was happening, I thought about how I needed to stay present, to stay relaxed, to ground it out, to dissolve it, that this experience is the kind of experience that I always wanted to have, that it was a sign of progress, that it was a hurdle that was just the next step along the path, from "talking a good game" to actually playing a good game. I had to let the negative go, and also I had to let my "ambitions" to get through it go (as it was very ego driven, like "haha look at what I can do"). In the end through, I couldn't do it. After it had ended it was still so fresh in my mind, I really couldn't let go. Tried to go back to sleep, but couldn't, got freaked out, and turned on all the lights, then stayed up all through the rest of the day thinking about it. The posts here really helped. Thinking about the experience more today (but trying not to get too attached or have it create another blockage), and as Mal said, things look better in the day, it's allowed me to see the experience a bit more clearly, beyond what I was able to see in the midst of the experience. What I experienced, the extremely negative parts of myself, were part of human nature in general. I'm starting to realize that, more likely than not, almost everyone has these aspects to themselves. It's just that I got a chance to look right at it. And that's something not many people do, and looking stuff like that in the eye can be scary. Once you get it into perspective, it's not that bad. You realize it's just another step. It gets you to the next step, and you keep moving forward. Don't be scared about anything, it's a natural progression.

Buddhist enlightenment is defined by the end of psychological suffering. One see's directly the interdepedency and relativity of all things and experiences, and transcends experience all together. One see's the empty nature of all experiences and concepts, thus liberates awareness from identification or limitation of any sort, because you see the cause of awareness itself as endless and not established, you self-liberate in every moment. One transcends the paradox of coming into being and no-being. As in, one see's through any standpoint, any point of view, any permanent state of consciousness. But, because one see's that all experiences and things are always dependent, and never true from their own side, and always caused by another, that's caused by another add infinitum, that as long as the realization of this is continuous, so is also the experience of being liberated from experiencing. The other quality of enlightenment is seeing that since we are connected, that giving this information or wisdom selflessly is also a way to liberate from self clinging. The main difference between Buddhism and other paths is the fact that Buddhism never posits a beginning. A mysterious source to all existence that holds all potentiality as an essence of being that expresses as all. It posits that there is in fact no source and no beginning to things, that each moment in history leads to endless moments in history in a way that realizes infinite regression and thus infinite expansion. There is no rooftop concept, of, "This is the Self", or... "This is the absolute Truth". It see's all of life and experiences from formless to form, from concept to beyond concept as dependently originated without origin, not as a causeless cause, but that... all is merely a chain of causation without a primal cause or a point of origin. Kundalini in most traditions is considered an energy that is inherently intelligent and thus mysterious. But, in Buddhism it's considered merely the realization of mind reflecting light that is merely awareness and that awareness is illuminating infinite internal causation within one's being, thus opening closets of previous causes and effects that form a vast and infinite chain, or matrix of interconnectivity, that is so deep that one can only think of it intuitively in any one moment, merely by recognizing in a way that is beyond thought, but not beyond knowing. This awareness brings to the surface all that is hidden within, and thus the energy of awareness, or illumination acts through one's karmic baggage and by working with the impressions that are now being seen through the path of the Dharma, or virtue of the Buddha's teachings, one de-wires the knots through contemplation and the energy or winds/karmas or the movements start becoming centered into an experience of wholeness and connectivity, and singularity of experience, as one see's that all seeming variables are equally empty, thus of one taste and through the body that experience is represented by the one spine that balances polarities such as left/right, up/down, in/out. If you think of the human body being an emanation of the balancing point of the spine, the hemispheres of the brain, etc. also being metaphors for the universe, the world, East and West hemispheres and polarities, it's endless in explanation. But basically it all balances by seeing the natural interconnectivity of all things and the inherent emptiness of all individual specs of the interconnected all, and one has the experience of non-dual awareness, or rather, awareness of the non-dual and non-abiding nature of all things. It's not an experience that is itself the TRUTH, but rather a realization of the empty nature of things as they always were, are and will be inherently, and thus is a true realization of what all this is. I thought maybe I'd edit for clarity, but maybe the run on sentences will help to bring understanding that is non-linear, reflective of a stream of expression pointing back to the meaning of the experience of holding paradox lighty? It's best described by poetry of the Mahasiddhas I think... Though even the poem below can be misunderstood, as in Buddhism, the term essence is referring to the essential nature of things, that they are relative and thus inherently empty of a real base, and thus, that is the base. So, explanation seems paradoxical and can confuse if not contexualized properly through the original teachings of the Buddha. Nagarjuna's Mahamudra Vision Homage to Manjusrikumarabhuta! 1. I bow down to the all-powerful Buddha Whose mind is free of attachment, Who in his compassion and wisdom Has taught the inexpressible. 2. In truth there is no birth - Then surely no cessation or liberation; The Buddha is like the sky And all beings have that nature. 3. Neither Samsara nor Nirvana exist, But all is a complex continuum With an intrinsic face of void, The object of ultimate awareness. 4. The nature of all things Appears like a reflection, Pure and naturally quiescent, With a non-dual identity of suchness. 5. The common mind imagines a self Where there is nothing at all, And it conceives of emotional states - Happiness, suffering, and equanimity. 6. The six states of being in Samsara, The happiness of heaven, The suffering of hell, Are all false creations, figments of mind. 7. Likewise the ideas of bad action causing suffering, Old age, disease and death, And the idea that virtue leads to happiness, Are mere ideas, unreal notions. 8. Like an artist frightened By the devil he paints, The sufferer in Samsara Is terrified by his own imagination. 9. Like a man caught in quicksands Thrashing and struggling about, So beings drown In the mess of their own thoughts. 10. Mistaking fantasy for reality Causes an experience of suffering; Mind is poisoned by interpretation Of consciousness of form. 11. Dissolving figment and fantasy With a mind of compassionate insight, Remain in perfect awareness In order to help all beings. 12. So acquiring conventional virtue Freed from the web of interpretive thought, Insurpassable understanding is gained As Buddha, friend to the world. 13. Knowing the relativity of all, The ultimate truth is always seen; Dismissing the idea of beginning, middle and end The flow is seen as Emptiness. 14. So all samsara and nirvana is seen as it is - Empty and insubstantial, Naked and changeless, Eternally quiescent and illumined. 15. As the figments of a dream Dissolve upon waking, So the confusion of Samsara Fades away in enlightenment. 16. Idealising things of no substance As eternal, substantial and satisfying, Shrouding them in a fog of desire The round of existence arises. 17. The nature of beings is unborn Yet commonly beings are conceived to exist; Both beings and their ideas Are false beliefs. 18. It is nothing but an artifice of mind This birth into an illusory becoming, Into a world of good and evil action With good or bad rebirth to follow. 19. When the wheel of mind ceases to turn All things come to an end. So there is nothing inherently substantial And all things are utterly pure. 20. This great ocean of samsara, Full of delusive thought, Can be crossed in the boat Universal Approach. Who can reach the other side without it? Colophon The Twenty Mahayana Verses, (in Sanskrit, Mahayanavimsaka; in Tibetan: Theg pa chen po nyi shu pa) were composed by the master Nagarjuna. They were translated into Tibetan by the Kashmiri Pandit Ananda and the Bhikshu translator Drakjor Sherab (Grags 'byor shes rab). They have been translated into English by the Anagarika Kunzang Tenzin on the last day of the year 1973 in the hope that the karma of the year may be mitigated. May all beings be happy!

I think you are familiar with the experience of "The Witness". One can remain an aloof Witness of everything, even in dream states one can be the watcher of the dream character. I'm not denying this experience but a further insight will be how "The Witness" is really the non-dual witnessing in which the observer and the observed is one. If you read Ken Wilber's Some Writings on Non-duality by Ken Wilber you'll have a better understanding on the progression from Witness to Non-Dual. When Non-Dual is experienced... everything is the mystery.

The statement is from the Kena Upanishad. What I mean is that, the ego, or the little self, even if aware of the transparency of all things, including itself, thus has the experience of omnipresence, basically has omniscience of the how things happen by surrender of this identification, and likewise the identification of all things so awareness does not confine itself anymore. In Hinduism, the statement would mean, I cannot know, but by surrendering to Brahman, the lord of all things, who is the presence behind all things and one with all things, direct experiencing of the lords always knowing happens. LOL! Funny... but who knows? Yeah, I used to drive my parents mad! "Who, what, where, when, why, how". My Mom's boyfriends used to make fun of me, in a sweet way. I bet he had quite a good amount of spontaneous joy! I never really studied Socrates. Before the Buddha was here, there were solitary realizers who didn't teach but had realization of dependent origination and who squelched the snares of craving through contemplation of emptiness. There are Navaho, Hopi and Pueblo Indian traditions that have realization and wisdom somewhat close to what the Buddha realized, but maybe not to completion. I had a very powerful dream once where I was hanging out with some Hopi Medicine men in an Adobe house, it was powerful and lucid with lots of good vibrations. Every tradition of the spirit has some good wisdom, even if doesn't lead to complete Buddhahood. Besides, if a person has the inner conditions for realization of the nature of things, it doesn't matter if there are not the outer conditions available for it's very clear expression as the Buddha had. It's not all so black and white. But, the universe does indeed work in one way and one way only. Dependent Origination is the way it all works. That's the organic mechanics of the cosmic clock. It's been postponed for a half hour, so I ended up talking a bit more. It's going to be Italian.

Hi Xabir2005, Okay. Let me start of by saying that we are really not that far apart as to our understanding. It is just that you use such funny words at times. However, this is not one of the areas where we agree. Hehehe. If what you say is true there would be no reason for the Manifest at all. I do agree that all arises spontaneously (but, consistent with the processes of Nature which are the guideposts for the Manifest) because of the process of cause and effect. Well, okay, almost consistently - there are variances from the norm. (But even this is within the realm of the natural.) Thing is, there is no 'sound' if there is no hearer. Yes, there are vibrational waves but no sound. The same with sight - there is no image if there is no receptor, only variations of the frequency of light waves. Therefore I suggest that the Manifest is very important as it is through the Manifest that Tao experiences itself. PS You will never convince me that "I" do not exist. Oh! This is another area where we don't agree. Hehehe. Chuang Tzu expressed it very well in the "Butterfly Dream". There is a state of wu where one becomes a non-descript observer and one may even see themself in the scene. But everything that is seen is of the Manifest nature. I will agree with you that the Mystery is non-descriptive. And that is because the Mystery is "potential", it is not yet Manifested. Okay. I cannot become bamboo nor can I become a pine tree. I may become either of those after this manifestation. I may have been those prior to this manifestation. I do agree that all Manifest eminates from the same source - the Mystery. But the purpose, in my mind, for the Manifest is so that Tao can have its various experiences. Everything is dynamic except perhaps Tzujan. But at this point in time I am one of the seers, one of the hearers, one of the feelers, physical and emotional, etc. And a pine tree is a pine tree. It cannot be me in this , its current manifestation. Yes, the tree can be cut down and the timber used to build a house and the cuttings used to make a fire. This is the transmutation of things. In this case man caused the transmutation but over time transmutation would have none-the-less taken place. I just can't imagine myselfg being a bamboo back-scratcher. Sorry. Taoist use words like that sometimes too. Except that they are making reference to one looking inside theirself, not trying to se themself as something else. Yes, we all must stand naked one day. And we will have to say, "This is what I have become." I do like your "... only a naked manifest awareness is present". (I will probably use it at some point in the future.) Be well!

Cat, I tried the Luohan photo. My remarks are that my qi was conspicuously silent, and later I stepped into the scerenity which I saw on his face. So all in all...nothing...or a message. I decided it was a message, and last night I put more effort into maintaining silence while dozing/meditating (because Im such a poor meditator lately) and managed to enter a pretty interesting lucid dream/altered state where sounds were automatically expanded upon, like lights turn into kalaidescope, the sounds turned into muscial variations or many conversational variations. Lucky7, I did learn a method from Max, tried it out once with no discernable results. Even still, it leads me to the question, what kind of things does one bother the ascended beings for? I wonder if Santiago is going to come back and comment on this topic, for I've read many posts of his about his interacting with Glen. Ya Mu, I felt vibes while reading your post! Meson, do you have any first hand experiences you care to share.

His theory of relativity seems to be quite compatible. Because you can't see it doesn't mean a thing to me. Some people have a certain type of mind that appeals to a linear view and compartments and they can't make the abstract leaps. They think they are grounded and well balanced. They like seeing A,B,C,D. My mind doesn't seem to work that way. The Theory of the Holographic Universe seems to fit quite nicely. Many things in Down the Rabbit Hole. Plus Further Down the Rabbit Hole seem to co-inside with many of the Buddha's findings. Not that I agree with all those interviewed in the movies, but it's very nice. I like "Waking Life" as well and much of what's discussed in that. Your welcome to your opinion and I guess I'm not talking to you. Also Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche doesn't talk about the things I talk about for the most part, I'm getting into metaphysical details that recall directly from my experiences and insights supported by my understandings of the scriptures involved. I've been having transcendent experiences of meditation and dream my entire life. I haven't had a normal American upbringing so my mind probably won't function in a normal way. I and plenty of others can read my posts and find clarity. Because you cannot does does not make me sad. We have not really gotten along since the very beginning. We don't have a history of agreement at all. I appeal to my mother's PHD because she has received her doctorate through study of various spiritual texts that I have read from and by appealing to her own spiritual experiences she has written on the meaning through her own words and has graduated with flying colors. She is quite a brilliant person. http://www.rosemarieprins.com/ She's an idol of mine... and she has really good insight. Who's finding confusion? You? Some others? Not some others as well who seem to find clarity. There are those that find clarity and those that won't. I'm sorry that I can't appeal to you. Que sera sera!