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I don't think people understand the real implications of abilities like "telekinesis". Sorry if this sounds negative, but I don't mean to be a bummer and harsh your mellows or anything like that. I just don't know how to put it any nicer than that. We all have an idea of what the world should be like. And we cling to that idea with all we got. Should anything appear contrary to our idea of reality, without special contemplative training, we would become extremely disturbed, scared and lost. This is why mentally ill people have very hard time being functional. They are scared. They don't know what to trust. It's like having no ground to stand on. Hard blatant magic implies the total and utter destruction of the world as you know it. Total. Utter. Gone. No world. No universe. No other people. No things. No dogs or cats. No driveway. No home. No stars or planets. No space or time. When I say "destruction," of course nothing is actually destroyed, but all ideas about it are removed from the depths of your own mind. It's not just that you'd be breaking rules of physics, that's nothing. You'd be breaking the boundary between yourself and the world. What are you? If you're not limited by your body, then what are you? You are not human. That's huge. All your ideas about what you are, what you can and cannot do, would be shattered. You'd have the biggest identity crisis this side of the universe. People sometimes commit suicide from the most minor minor trivial things when they reach midlife crisis. People reach 30-40 and realize they didn't achieve any goals or didn't live the life they wanted (as a human! they want to be a limited human, they have goals, plans, wishes, hopes for the human!), and they hang themselves, or they reinvent themselves. Think what this implies. Not only do most (99.99999999%) people not want any psychic abilities, but people want to remain stupid and limited humans, on purpose. They have goals, wishes, hopes and dreams for those stupid little limited un-psychic mounds of flesh that they all fervently believe they are. They can't just give it all up. Not until they fulfill themselves a million times over and get tired of being a human first. People are so fucking scared of real psychic abilities, that even the slightest hint of them, and they are willing to burn the witch they think has them. That's a lot of people around the world. And the only reason we no longer have witch burnings in the developed world is not because people have matured or become more fearless, or because they have expanded their minds, hell no. The reason why we don't have witch burnings in the developed world is because everyone got utterly convinced that such things simply do not exist. Should people believe they do exist, they could easily revert to witch burning behavior of the past due to tremendous fear. People want to have ground under their feet. They want to be sure that when they open the door of their home, there is a familiar street on the other side. People want to be sure that when they release an object from their hand, it falls to the ground. This is comforting. This is familiar. It's stability. These desires are so deep in our minds we don't even realize they are there. Just me mentioning it is not likely to give you a realization of what I am describing. You have to crack your own reality at least briefly to understand what I am talking about. People think that having a psychic ability is an add-on. It's not. People think that we have Jane over here and add psychic ability and voila, we have psychic Jane. So the formula would be: Jane + psychic training = psychic Jane. Sort of like: Jane + carpentry training = carpenter Jane or Jane + math training = mathematician Jane But having a real magic ability is unlike any mundane ability. Mundane abilities are built by building on top of your core beliefs about reality. Since your core beliefs about reality are untouched, acquiring mundane abilities feels relatively easy and safe to mundane beings. It feels like a step by step process, as you add more conditioning on top of your already-existing conditioning. Supramundane abilities are restored to the original limitless being by uprooting and dissolving the deeply nested core beliefs about reality. This is what makes them unlike anything you've ever known. It's not even training. I say "training", but it's not. It's not like training for a marathon. It's not like lifting weights. It's not rote. It's not repetitive. It's not cycling energy. It's not opening chakras. It's not microcosmic orbit. It's not anything most people are obsessed with doing on this here forum. It's not any of that spiritual confetti. This is why someone who circulates energy is not going to get any powers. And they don't. You won't become immortals. If you conserve your energy, you won't get anything. It's all a waste of time. And of course reality supports what I am saying, because if you test any person on this forum, a la Randi, I can guarantee you they will have no power, and SFJane has been brave and honest enough to realize that in her own training. Good for her. Bravo. Nobody here will have any kind of special power. Why not? You don't do what you need to do to have it. Why not? You don't want to. Deep down, you don't. If you deep down wanted to, you'd pick a practice that opens the gates so to speak. But you don't pick it. Instead you pick something rote, something you can do in the morning every day, something that doesn't ruin your life. You can do it before breakfast, then have your oatmeal, nice and healthy, then go about your day as a limited little lump of human flesh. You need that stability of being human. You need the safety of the known. You need physics to continue to function so that you don't freak out. You have dreams, hopes, plans, goals, wishes that you strive for as a human. You don't want to stop being a human. You don't want to destroy this world. Etc. and so on. You just want to spice this place up! Spicy. You want a little something spicy on top. That's all. The only practice that yields power is contemplation, and even then, contemplation has to be coupled with willingness. You have to be a willing, non-resisting participant. That's huge. To get this kind of willingness you must have tremendous emotional maturity that transcends human emotional maturity. It's when you know everything there is to know about being human. It's when you are utterly, utterly satisfied with being who you are and having lived as you had, and have nothing more to gain from it. It's like you had your fill and now you can do something else. But not until then. If you still enjoy the human games, you can't play the games of immortals. So does this mean you should stop enjoying being human so you can become immortals? Hell no! The dirty secret is that you are already an immortal who magically made this human world. You love all of this. You love this game. You are not yet done playing. There is nothing anywhere that can hurry you up. You cannot contrive anything. You cannot artificially with some kind of practice change your innermost desire. This is why the highest spiritual practices stress that there is no artifice, no practice, no rote training. Why? Because intent has to be clear and if you are applying techniques your intent is still dirty. It's not clear. To understand why this is actually the case, one has to contemplate for a very long time. No, you don't need a master for this. You don't need a Guru. You don't need to be a Buddhist or a Daoist or any ist. You just need to be ready and willing. When you are ready and willing, you'll have the requisite wisdom to know what it is you need to contemplate. You'll be able to sense where it is that limitations emanate from. You'll be able to consider things that most people cannot even consider. So enjoy yourselves. Have fun. Be good to each other. Don't rush anything. When you are ready, you'll start asking different sorts of questions than when you love being human and want to remain human in a human world, with all that it implies, and you just want a little something extra special on top, a little spicy spice on top. A little spicy microcosmic orbit practice. A little spicy chakra practice. Something that is guaranteed not to disturb or change your dream of human in a human world even in the slightest. Something safe. Enjoy!

When I get a chance I'd like to make some more replies but for now I'd like to address two things. The first: What would I do if had the real deal telekinesis? I would hide it at first and prove it to myself. If I could move a piece of paper it stands to reason with more practice I could move several pieces. I'd practice at different ranges with different barricades. I would make TK training stations and do circuits. When I was absolutely sure I could move reasonably impressive objects such as a cinder-block I would then make a video of me moving a cinder-block from ten feet away with my mind. Then I would contact the press. As That Guy stated, I would have my platform to get Randi's attention pretty quick at that point. Then for my trick, I would have James Randi hold the check or facsimile of in his open hand at ten feet away and then I would take the check right out of his hand as many times as people wanted to see it. Promptly after that I would go before the scientific community having just won Randi's challenge and proudly demonstrate the results of so much concentration practice. Then I would disappear into the bush in Australia after a spirit in a dream told me that the human race was not ready for such knowledge. Ha! Psyche! Just kidding. I would be on hand to demo before the world stage that what so many have imagined and longed for was finally true. I would encourage others to learn how to do it and make my training formula available (for a good price) to those that wanted in on it. I would sell my hard won skill and knowledge and help people train for a future of TKs. And I don't mind telling you all that I would gloat a little in front of Mr Randi and every other skeptic with a 'I told you so' winning smile on my face. If there was even one person with a real power that they could prove, I see no reason why they should not also do as I would do and take that million dollar check right out of his hand with their mind. But alas, it has yet to happen and I highly doubt that it will. But I do hope that it happens someday because I have just enough child left in me to think that that would be wonderful. While I do still hope that someone can pull it off, I am not going to go all googly eyed over TK tricks that can only be done under 'perfect' conditions set up by the TKer. You either have it or you don't. You can do it or you can't. None of this 'your negative chi is turning off my powers' crap.

Nice summery Z3N! I think my head just exploded! *BOOM! I was wondering something; I had a strange dream last night that I realised all selfish desires are an illusion. Then I went into some sort of void.. I don't think it was the real deal idk, but it scared the beejeebers out of me.. I felt really lonely, it was desilate and extreamly quite (Zero sound).. I woke up after I realised I was dreaming and as I was coming back to reality I heard this strange static noise... Maybe it was real? :S

I once met an old lady whose greatest joy in life was collecting antiques. Over the decades she became quite an expert... because she found the enterprise so fascinating she created distinctions that you and I would only dream of. She could look at a vase and in a split second recognise the glaze, the firing technique, the decade it was most likely made in and whether it is worth any money. And not only was this with vases... everything from furniture to cutlery to jewellery. Her attention to detail and level of expertise seemed almost magical. My greatest joy is discovering more about myself and others. How we think, feel, move... So I have many distinctions on how we deal with our consciousness, awareness, emotions... how we think... how we relate with one another. Sometimes my (seemingly mundane) insights seem magical to others. Mostly they're nonsensical (imagine being shown the intricacies of the perfect golf swing by a champion golfer when all you want is to get the ball past the windmill at your local crazy golf course). My current through-the-day practice is noticing 3 different perspectives on my thoughts, emotions and moods. I sense the thought from a first person perspective - from inside me... then I sense it from a 2nd person perspective - from outside of me and then from 3rd person perspective - objectively (all possible points of view simultaneously). I watch my awareness, my thoughts, my movement and breathing and how I interact with others.

I appreciate your curiocity, @apepch7. As you aptly pointed out, having real ancient knowledge may be more than enough to keep some people from "bothering" with any modern practices. However, from the point of view of the current lineage holder, I have to say that, as far as I am concerned, every previous holder of the lineage contributed to our art in one way or another. My contribution may be in the way I manage to translate and explain the art of Qi Dao in the terms understandable to educated contemporaries. My choice of NLP and Hypnosis was based on the numerous similarities between some aspects of these disciplines and the practice of Dream Yoga that form the spiritual foundation of Tibetan Shamanic Qigong. Both NLP and Hypnosis offer some practical approaches that are very effective and free of religious undertones. As you may have read in my book, Once I received religious asylum in the United States, I found myself in a relative spiritual vacuum in this country, so I decided to explore the fields where my knowledge would be appreciated and helpful to the extent I manage to refrain from converting people into Bon Shamanism, which is not within my interests at all. Anyone thinking that a Shaman possessing ancient knowledge should do nothing else but shamanize would be giving the Shaman too little room for growth and development. I cannot say for other Shamans, but the knowledge I possess is alive today exactly because it was not frozen into an unchangeable dogma but continuously evolved and adopted to the needs of the people practicing this living art. Namaste, Lama Tantrapa

Thanks, and I sure hope so, because I want to believe! But you know, it ain't easy to just believe (for me anyway) when the world works the way it does (or seems to) This cool concept came to me in a strange dream actually, was it all Fantasy or Revelation? If I ever find out I'll let you know

Yes, a natural unfolding is IMO better and less traumatizing. Step by step. A rock song we wrote in the 80's: Breaking Through the Barriers, Step by Step, Make it to the Inner Court, There the Secret is Kept, Turn to See You're Surrounded, A Blinding Light is Seen, Open Your Eyes and Realize, This Is Not A Dream ...

I browsed through a thread we had a while ago on him, and in one of his posts he said he had the book for free on google books. I read it, and it really vibed with me. So I went out and bought the book, and I read it over from time to time. I find a lot of what he says is stuff I personally have come to believe, or things that I have easily been able to integrate into my practice (I've always enjoyed lucid dreaming, so the parallels he makes with dream states really appealed to me). He teaches some exercises in the book, including some arm swings which reminds me of some stuff that B.K. Frantzis teaches (so is there validity in similarity?) As for the names and stuff.... eh, when I was younger (early teens) I was conned by some martial arts mcdojos, people who said they could teach me how to fight when really they were just luring me in with the name of a certain style. After that I became really adamant about finding out a verifiable lineage and only studying with or from people who could prove that they learned from a legitimate branch of something. But after a while I started to find more and more stuff that either didn't have a verifiable lineage, or was *gasp* something someone had come up with on their own! Some of it vibed with me, some of it didn't. The stuff that did I started to incorporate. So.... for me, personally, I'm caring less and less about someone's name or where it came from, so long as it fits me.

nonsense. rocks love water.- LoVe water. I love biting but I don't need to. Why is this reminding me of my initial not written post or maybe I did write it. some things are the dream most things are not dont like your garden but you've got nice trees.

Yet, here i am.. I am Life, and living it with unconditional sincerity and spontaneous gusto.. You? you are Life, too.. pretending to be a sage, uttering preposterous unverifiable concepts/mind games.. it's like the marketing scheme of 'prestige pricing', where if you price it high enough, people will buy it simply because anything that costly must be good.. in the spiritual game, people speak with the air of authority and utter the most preposterous impossibilities, and.. yep, you guessed it.. people figure well, either there's some truth to it, or.. that's the most audaciously proud idiot on the planet.. they tend to believing there's some truth to it, simply because they can't imagine anyone that willfully utters such nonsense.. and, dang it, another one takes the 'bait'.. because, if you can get 'em to but that, the rest of the 'scheme' is a piece of cake.. The evidence is clear, we exist and it's not a dream.. still the mind, and see that this is so.. that's all, just still the mind.. notice that nothing changes. Or, listen to the 'stories', and pretend you don't exist, but.. you can't do that with a 'still mind', you have to keep telling yourself the same fairytale over and over.. but, it's your choice.. Clarity or fantasy? Be well..

And where are you? Show me who you are! Who are you? Everything is fleeting like a dream! And one realizes nothing has arisen in the first place. All a play of the void, a figment of imagination. There is no you, there is no I, there is no nothingness, nor there is no beingness, nor is there both. BAHAHAHHAHA!

Mon 03/15 was my 1st full 13 hr shift with 2hr travel round trip after 5wks off with broken foot. Easy night, couldn't really sleep well that A.M. (No Vicodin either) Woke up after 6hrs DEAD TIRED. 0 energy (scary)! Finally had to nap about 8pm my usual peak hr on an off nite. Stayed up with my wife till 3 A.M. Could only sleep 3 hr after that. Went back to bed at 9 A.M. (my usual time on a work nite) and finally woke at 3pm (usual wake up time if working) when in my dream I had to apply brakes for Red light which fired my adrenals and shocked me awake! The above took place over a two day period. The energy I had when it was bedtime felt like the first time I had an awakening. "Use the energy up or it will use you up" type thing.

I bet the bartender is also aware of the dream when he's dreaming. I mean... how do you recognize a Buddhist, Taoist or Confucianist so easily?

Mikaelz, I do taoist practices. I have places to go! As far as I'm concerned, this board is far from awash with advanced practioners of Advaita, Zen or Dzochen and so posting that quote here is akin to advocating introverted quietism and it is all too easy to sit in a dream like state and imagine you are meditating....

Actually that reminds me - what happened to Biff? Biff PMd me saying he had ordered the "Level One sitting meditation" c.d. from http://springforestqigong.com and then the same day he posts a comment stating he thinks I'm a paid poster for springforestqigong.com So I responded to Biff - lets see if I can find it. Meanwhile Biff has vanished like a puff or whiff.... Nope -- anyway yeah I get paid $20 per post. It's a sweet deal! haha. Seriously it's a free radio interview minus the commercials. Me -- I live with my parents -- my dad is a retired lawyer in his mid-70s, and my mom is a sorority gal in her mid-70s. So I got $1000 in the bank from my last job which I quit for numerous reasons, most prominently that I smelled like shit too much because I was eating meat and sugar even though the middle of my brain is permanently magnetized. There is no going back! haha. So now I'm planning on planting some forest crops -- chestnut trees and a nitrogen fixer -- honey locust -- and some apple trees. We got 10 acres although my parents are heavily mortaged with the banks. But still you never know when the economy is going to crash considering there's some $500 trillion floating in speculative derivatives backed up by government bail out money printed on a jobless recovery! haha. Still considering the nuclear fuel rods are all cracking there should be a good power plant meltdown soon that will wake up this rotting empire. Or else all the depleted uranium Gulf War illness -- if not just move to Fallujah right? Nah I don't get paid but I did get arrested some 7 times protesting the Evil Empire -- the Twin Cities is the largest manufacturer of munititions through AlliantTech -- home of the largest depleted uranium weapon producers. I got arrested there a couple times. I also got arrested protesting the nuclear fuel rods stored in the Mississippi river -- that will be nice when the whole down river gets contaminated a la Chernobyl. Yes there's whole towns with children all orphaned and defects, etc. Then I got arrested protesting the clearcut of the sacred old growth forest -- Big Woods maple basswood at the headwaters of the Mississippi and Minnesota river. The Indian first nations would meet there from the whole region. Strange I had a precognitive dream about that protest 3 years before it happened -- and it was the largest police raid in Minnesota history. And then I got arrested protesting the genocide in Iraq -- twice. I got arrested protesting Project ELF -- the nuclear weapons one way First Strike system that was shut down. Did I get paid for those arrests?

Just to be honest, I am not a Buddhist or a 'true' taoist either, so my answer isn't necessarily the taoist perspective. However, if you think about it, you will find the answer. The concept of karma only has a meaning in regard to the afterlife and rebirth. This is the belief-part - whether you believe in it or not, it's your business. Yet, regarding this very life you're living now, karma is nothing more than things which you do, think or say. Now, the main principle is that good or bad isn't interesting in relation with karma. Enlightenment doesn't equal getting rid of negative karma - enlightenment is without any kind of karma. This means that doing things for the sake of a favorable rebirth is not better than doing things for a rebirth in the lower realms - at least in a karmic sense. Whether your deed depletes your bad karma or accumulates good karma depends on the deed itself. When something is the result of bad karma, like long lasting or indigenous illnesses, then doing against these (like helping the sick) results in depleting bad karma. When you simply do good for the sake of good result, that creates good karma. However, the main thing should be getting rid of karma instead of accumulating good karma. Good karma can result in rebirth in a higher realm, but it will never lead you to enlightenment or full liberation. Basically the whole thing is about experiencing anything life throws unto you, without avoiding or chasing any specific experience. This doesn't mean to stop thinking, it means not to cling on a past memory or a future dream. Focus on the present. You know, in my opinion, the essence of Tao can be found in doing the Tao. While you do it, you don't talk about it. While you do it, you don't care about the result of it. Worrying about the result (or anything) is not the Tao. Doing the Tao - in my mind - means living the life as it is, i.e. not for the sake of something what is not, but for the sake of what is. If you do things for the sake of others, for the sake of good karma, for the sake of getting rid of bad karma, for the sake of enlightenment, for the sake of good rebirth, or for the sake of doing something, then you don't do the Tao. Then you're constantly connecting yourself with your past and future. Well, "doing the Tao" might be kind of misleading composition but I think you know what I mean. Oh yes, it's hard. But is worth too.

From my trip to china to find Kun Lun one of the most powerful experiences was a dream of 2 large green women. There were two of them walking through a country. They were taller than me and were wearing the wings of enlightenment. As to why there were two of them I can't say, but the karma that they gave has been meaningful and manifests in a most joyous playful way. There might be a song that they sing about the sorrows and triumphs of the people of China. After all kunlun is a city in china...if you have the eyes to see it and a heart to feel it. So this song that these women sing might sound like A LA LALA a LA LA. Or maybe might start with SA.

Fields of Dreams machin dro dream thro china is here

Did you take that shot? Impressive shot. If so, I assume you're using a digital SLR? What a dream... I'm having fun with my little point & shoot Canon digital. Good fun. But the possibilities open way up with the SLRs.

I don't think this is entirely correct. We sleep in cycles of REM and non- REM sleep. During REM sleep, we dream and it is believed that the brain sorts out memories, kind of like cleaning up and organizing thoughts. During this phase, the brain emits mostly theta waves, same as deep meditation. During non- REM sleep, the brainwaves slow to delta waves 2- .05hz. This is when hormones are released and the body seems to be repairing it's self. This deep sleep occurs early in the cycle. Alcohol consumption before sleep will disturb this portion. That is why even when you get your 8 hour of sleep after drinking, you still feel tired. Then we go back to REM sleep and theta state 7-4HZ. But when we return to non-REM delta, we don't go as deep as the previous cycle. By the end of the cycle, we are still going into non- REM sleep, but out brain is in theta. This is why when you get awakened in the middle of the night you feel groggy, but in the morning you awake refreshed. Science is still trying to figure out what is going on during that phase, but they know it is mostly the brain working on memories and things learned. So our body needs about 1/4 to 1/3 of our sleep cycle. The brain uses the rest. Meditating increases out time in a theta state, resulting in less time needed in sleep.

death is but a dream... but sleepless life is not peace restless fires quicken.

grow flowers on them that way the ancestors live death is but a dream...

Hmmm. This is interesting. Two years ago I came across this Tai Chi guy and Fire Qigong teacher who told me he had a recurring dream about an Indian guru who was asking me to come to India and donate money to his cause. He didn't have a clue of who the man was until I mentioned to him the story I read about this suppossedly Indian saddhu with Afro hairstyle who was surrounded by controversy. Then he uttered (after right I mentioned the word "Afro"): That's him! That's the guy I saw in my dreams! Interesting.

Well, well, where to start? That video was pretty nasty and disturbing. However, just to be fair to Sai and his followers, he has reportedly performed feats Chunny Lnn, Wang Liping,John Chang and others can only dream about. It should also be noted Jesus was slandered in the talmud under veiled references. So I'm always reluctant to immediately judge without evidence. Swami Rama was also called a charlatan and like Jesus he refused to speak out against his accusers.Leaving him open to a vicious lawsuit and extreme finacial penalties. One of our own members visited Baba and claims his powers are real[sky or starjumper]yet he derives them from evil spirits. Barbara Brenan [i think] visited him and said ''It appeared as though all tthe energy centers in the universe were centered around him'' Her own healing powers increased after that encounter,so who can say? It should also be mentioned in the book of Enoch it reads''The serpent landed in India'' Anyway,here is a book detailing some f his amazing feats:http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Miracles-Investigative-Phenomena-Associated/dp/0803893841 His charity work-building schools and hospitals should also be marked. Unlike eastern spritual leaders L Ron Hubbard fought back against his accusers [infiltrating goverment instiutions,ecetera] and is criticized for doing so. It is similar to the problem of evil brought up on university campuses: If God is good then why won't he stop evil? Yet in certain passages he is called a juding God and takes action against evil and that is used against him, it seems you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. It all comes down to how people feel about you.

I was almost 130 kg when I started learning the traditional Yang long form with my Sifu. It got me to a weight range and level of fitness where I had much more energy, so I was able to do more exercises. IMHO Tai Chi can make you quite healthy, but not drastically reduce your weight. My Dad is heavier then me ( and older ) and found the pace of progress of the big Tai Chi class learning the long form too fast for him. It became unmotivating for him watching everyone else progress faster. The class is only for 3 months once a year. So it's at a fast pace to learn the entire form to a level where you at least have something you can practice by yourself. Last attempt at it he couldn't stand up for the entire class and would have to sit down 1/2 way through. Of course he did better than those who just gave up and he did keep trying over 3 years but IMHO not enough practice away from class to get any benefits. He has bad knees and for example can't balance on one leg. Even Yang style footwork can be challenging to build up too for many, but you can make it easier. I tried doing that and standing beside him in high stances with easy footwork. But I'm needed in that class to help demonstrate so it was difficult for me to do that consistently. So I tried some standing chi gongs I know instead to take away the weight shifting movement of Tai Chi. (pretty much like what Hundun suggested) Anyhow no luck with the chi gongs, again not enough consistent practice IMHO. I'm thinking of seeing if he will have ago at this I'm attracted to the teachers energy in that youtube. I wish your friend the best of luck. I hope he finds something so enjoyable that he will look forward to practicing every day (IMHO that's the key) It's a battle to move when you are heavy and getting started is very hard. I would love to get any questions feedback. My Dad is a sad story of loss of movement over time, but if it helps for me it was. I'm so fat I'm going to die early (motivation 2002) I'll stop practicing music and really focus on Tai Chi (I've tried several teachers over my life) Tai Chi got me to where I could do Kung Fu (turns out my Sifu taught that too. Didn't think I could ever do Kung Fu , childhood dream, just wanted to spend more time around Sifu.) Wanting to get fitter for Kung Fu that got me attempting combat conditioning. Meanwhile Tai Chi led to doing more meditation. Wanting a meditation teacher led to local Buddhism, Tao bums eventually kunlun then KAP (Like finding my Sifu finding Santi made an enormous difference in my life) Also ended up going to a warrior diet / fast five lifestyle. I'm still fat 110kg but so much more alive (Hundun nice to see you around again)