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Its hard to argue against the philosophy of 'Before Enlightenment carry wood and water, After enlightenment Carry wood and water. To quiet the mind and go deeper into the moment is indeed one of the greatest challenges. But there are others. There are esoterisms to be considered and explored. I've got to credit Ron Jeremy for this saying that struck me, 'How will your practice help you once you're dead?' One one hand who knows what happens when you die. On the other, there are practices, dream control, phowa, astral travel etc. that give tantalizing clues and skills. To chase after those 'powers' early is probably a waste. Without a long strong developed practice you're climbing the limb of an undeveloped tree. But I think after the Dao of the tic toc world there are others to explore. Maybe after this Dao, That Dao. maybe. Michael

Brilliant, Jing Attig Even so can anyone be more or less on the same pathway, isn't all of nature moved by Tao, and ultimately moving toward the Oneness we search, appearence say the world as we perceive it outside of ourselves is in utter chaos, and confusion, doesn't nature appear to us as same when a monsoon, or hurricane rampages its way through lives, are we better off for consciously searching for purpose and meaning, then they who appear not to be as we. Are all the practices we do to control and manipulate our thoughts,and feelings setting us truly free or are we actually the ones imprisoned by our ideas? Chuang Tzu spoke of the illusion of a dream he had wondering was he a butterfly thinking he was a man or a man thinking he was a butterfly. Our universe is but a drop of water with us wandering aimlessly along our way, some of us with such grandiose ideas that we are there, we are it. We have finally reached our purpose our destination, and we have to communicate that to others, so we can all be in the same boat in this drop of water. So we talk ,we discuss, we search the what is called the ancient wisdoms, and from those ancient scripts,others will come along to express just how they see it themselves and write new books, the old books will be translated by so many others that soon the ancient wisdom isn't even wisdom any more. They are just words written in the wind In this short period of time we are here in this form and shape we, here in the western world have thought we had true freedom, because we had most things needed to make ourselves comfortably numb. Certainly some of us rebelled against our upbringing ,our religions, our parents, everything because it didn't feel right to us personally. For some of us it took us far away from what others did ,thought and beleived, we actually became alliens in our own bodies. So we began our search, we became nomads traveling through every denomination of the religion we began with, still dissatisfied we took a chance and went to a different religion only to end up just as disenchanted, we moved on to another philopshy and another program that said...this is really the way. For those of us who could not find satisfaction we eventually arrived at the door of Lao Tzu, so different from our western thinking, thrilled by the words we dug in, for me then came Chuang Tzu, at this point I stopped to return to my beginings The Christian Bible, with my new found freedom to inspect and explore, that which I had challanged , I finally asked the question, who really compiled these books, chose the books that would be acceptable and discarded those they found unfit. You see for most of my adult life I accepted blindly on faith they were the inspired words of god, even though I felt that no matter how hard I tried I had to fail and wind up in hell, so I kept digging and search. Well as it turns out some ruler took control of what they say jesus was about, and created a new religion, and it was he and a cohort Jerome who put there heads together and the bible as we see it in uncountable different versions has been destroying humankind ever since in the name of the god they created. Having reached this conclusion and come back to Lao TZu and Chuang Tzu after reading and searching and turning their ideas all around and upside down, for years,I come to the same conclusion, I arrived at with the bible. In somewayThe government of China, or India, or Japan,created that which best full filled their own mission to control and manipulate their own people, to the western mind, the ideas are magnificent , so freeing up after being confined to a god who was going to judge and condemn his own creation, when I say it now it sounds ludicrious, that for 1700 years they have been able to control and manipulate with fear. Can it be any different in any of the other cultures, as the world gradually becomes capitalistic, which government will reach the pinnicale of deception and wind up being the world government. So here I am and I have heard what you said Jing Attig, and it sounds awesome, we humans are great for performance and drama, look at jesus they gave him a script, all he had to do is follow what the prophets,(who by the way were all derelicts living isolated in caves, eating locust and wild honey,) said the messiah was going to do. When they created the bible they had it all their own way they could say anything they wanted 300 years after the supposed happening, if it ever happened at all, and they made him in to a god. And their god has been attempting to control and manipulate the world with war ever since. More of humankind has been destroyed by their creation then anyone in all of history. Now do you really think it would be any different with any other religions the states adopt and promote. So we talk about oneness, we are all one, and I honestly believe that is true only because of the concept of quantum and that we are all connected no matter whether we want to or not, we talk about dao, and argue back and forth or we discuss how we see it, or we ridicule one another because we think we know morethen the fool who just spilled his guts out, and my friend in the end it all winds up just entertainment, because we are so bored with our existence the way we created it that we just have to look for more and stir up more trouble. I am not even going to try to edit this or read it over Just going to hang it out there to dry. Tell me my bullshit don't stink, and I'll tell you "come on let us all get honest" joe

What's up? This was the best response I've had to that- No one jokes enough these days, unfortunate. Anyways, yes, I'm brand new to the commun-i-tea. I've really been hearing a lot people speaking about the dow recently. I'm glad I found this forum. I plan to learn lots about it here. The truth is I like the Tao, I-Ching, meditation, tea and plan to glean and share some things here. I have a blog @ http://dreambored.blogspot.com/ Dream Bored plans to get into the tao at some point in the future, but as for now, we're still under the trees. Hope all's well, and each has the energy to send positivity into this world. Peace

Well, yes, the cold-blooded ones. I'm not sure what species they are exactly, they have never behaved as members of the human race toward fellow humans, so anything is possible -- it's more important what they "do" than what they "are" -- like in all other cases, actually -- and David Icke is so damn good at explaining and documenting what they "do" that what he thinks about what they "are" is almost irrelevant. Though Al Gore does look a lot like a large lizard, doesn't he? Honestly? And Icke thinks he's full of shit. I dunno... I've never paid much attention because it's not my imprint to notice something like this -- they often say "energy follows attention" but you can bet your life on the opposite being true first -- "attention follows energy." Imprinted energy patterns will dictate where your attention will go, what you will resonate with, what, out of the information soup you're swimming in on a daily basis, you will navigate toward. Have you ever seen Magritt's painting titled "Personal Things?" I'll try to look it up online and post it to illustrate what I mean if I find it. Global warming may or may not be the number one threat, but there's so many others competing for the spot... you can't really "educate" people about what they should fear the most when the whole scene is turning so damn scary, so utterly fubar... (I know, I know... some would disagree, and I usually say to them -- you haven't been paying attention! ) So for me... on the immediate emotional-response level, you can't really fear a warming scenario too much if you spent your early age in Siberia. If it was the next Ice Age they were concerned about, I would be way more focused on the issue... where I lived we used to get minus seventy-five -- with government-supplied, and unreliable, and occasionally nonexistent, central heating. You talk to someone like me about "warming" and my spontaneous emotional response is, "yeah! Bring it on! " I don't want to question the accuracy of your information, what I'm trying to say is, my attention naturally gravitates toward some altogether different dangers to ponder and try to do something to avert. If I don't forget, I'll post an account of a dream I had that accurately reflects my own premonitions and anticipations. I call it The Dream of the Red Suitcase...

Like, literally and measurably? Or just perceptually? Cool, please link it here when you do! My friend had a dream about a lion, lately. Could you expound upon these spiritual stories and symbology here?

I feel sure that your students wouldnt dream of being so ungenerous.. it wouldnt be possible for them to be petty or resentful about money issues, would it, with their level of evolution gained from learning from you? Go ahead and give freely as your heart desires.

IMHO, I think this at least relates to your last question... Http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?s=&amp...ost&p=77446 from that narrative... <<<Soon she was transferred to a palliative care ward. It was cramped and noisy; restless and uncomfortable for her initially. That evening she manifested many symptoms and several nurses and her doctor attended. My brother and his partner and my wife and I were there. At some point she escalated into severe coughing, mucus, and cramping; sitting up rapidly and falling back repeatedly. My brother and I were on either side of her bed at this point and the nurses and doctor standing by, not having any particular diagnosis or treatment at that moment. My brother and I were each holding an opposite hand and elbow of our mother through this sitting up / falling back in an effort to cushion and stabilize her motion, while talking to her to comfort and elicit her reports of what was the problem /what was it she needed. Both of us began to feel a great sense of heat/energy/scintillations in our hands, going deeper and deeper and rising in power. With this she relaxed and remained resting for a few moments and the nurses took over again.>>> I have no doubt from that experience we were doing what we could to assist and communicate while she was attempting to leave. That lifeforce projection by her, for I cannot think it was anything but powerful intention driving it, was her first effort. A very determined and self-assured person, she had come very close to dying from a childhood disease when she was about six years of age. <<<As she was able to relax after this episode, but not having died then as seemed to be where things were headed that evening, she then slipped any medication out the side of her mouth and never ate or drank again, but agreed to me, my brother or our partners swabbing her mouth with a moisturizing gel. Fortunately she was able to be transferred to a private palliative care suite and lived relaxed, in and out of conscious lucid dream states talking but not in clear words to those in the dreams, and to us simultaneously for several days before going into a sleep/brief-waking/sleep cycles and then into a coma, until after my brother returned from a long-planned trip with his son, of about ten days.>>> Throughout this period, I was there daily and other family and the family minister visited from time to time. She cheerfully conversed with us and gradually also with her ethereal visitors, but in increasingly garbled speak as her vocal tract was drying and diminishing. Yet she continued to find meaning in our interchanges and joy. I brushed her hair regularly, which was one her great comforts. Through a period into the sleep to coma phase, she expressed discomfort and small doses of morphine alleviated that pain and through this virtually all talking stopped. I sang old favourite songs and hymns of hers. Occasionally she seemed to try to smile or hum... <<<The next day with both my brother and I in her room with her, and after days of no movement and coma, she stirred, lifted her head the little she could and worked her desiccated mouth as best she could, determined to articulate what we heard as: "Thank you...", with the attempt at a smile as far as her body could then do that, and left her body then and there.>>> We talked and sang to her gently through this until she came out of the coma briefly. We hugged her and kissed her and brushed her hair again as she was leaving and assured her we would be alright. "Everything that can be done will be done.", I said and looking into her eyes you could see her peace. It was an honour and a privilege to be able to be there throughout. all the best to you artform

Xeno, You're a funny guy. I have never seen someone so obsessed with something they claim to have no interest in. You're borderline stalker. By all means, please come save me from my path, sifu. I hope to one day speak in a condescending tone like you papa? Sarcasm I get, but arrogance is something only a master such as yourself could teach. Please learn me how ta do it. This is an exciting opportunity you have presented and I feel that if I work really hard, perhaps I could develop the critical analytical skills that would help me confuse the one post where someone detailed a satirical roller coaster "flying" experience, as an ACTUAL personal experience. Oh, a boy can dream... I do share my personal experiences, but on my own forum, amongst friends. Why would I put anything personal in here? It is like a cess-pool half of the time where sincerity is rewarded with shittyness. Not here. However, I would LOVE to have the conversation in person, where you refer to me as a tool. I think I might actually enjoy that a lot.

Anugama Click on 'Shamanic Dream' and you'll get to hear some of it. It really works for journeying.

Unbelievable. Practiced at the Cinder Cone. balanced iNSIDE Out. Worked same position as two weeks earlier. Surprised at what I found still stting under the stairs... so so so... what does love taste like? smell like? I heard a voice ask me a question when I got home. Auditorial hallucination? I doubt it. I put the perle under my pillow wondering what I would dream about. To my surprise I was unable to fall asleep. Just lulled into a resignated resonation...

tao meow meow story teller mao bow wow wow Since this happened BEFORE I posted this experiment I will respond to your pearl post first Tao Meow and then keep on sweeping the floors for a week ... the pearl dream is significant to me. Maybe this is just a way intelligence at large is ciphering? Maybe this confirms the connection speed of mind being outside of linear time as we know it... 11A Mysterious Old Theater 22A Big White Glowing Pearl This was an intense night. It stands out in my memory. Very active 2 stepper hardcore pit. Probably 5-6 fights. Learned something every time I laid my hands on someone. More to be said here. <resv> Fight to heal. Heal Fights. 1. kid kicked another kid in the back 2. accidental elbow throwdown 3. kid crosshairs another and attacks 4. making the pit bigger doesn't mean body dropping on innocents 5. 6-8 person pigpill kickathon bloody mess and big fatso can't keep his balance to throw one I found and moved it (the huge pearl) from behind the stage doors, down the hallwall, to under the stage stairs About 2 weeks ago? 33Theatrical Make Up - taste up down across magic square dross see saw sauce

Call it what you want but the "cha-ching" is not my thing. The real payoff is the people you help by making this stuff available. As I have said, we could make a hell of a lot more money than we currently do, but it just isn't the motivation. Realizing that by reaching a certain percentage of the population of the planet and then having them practice Kunlun could actually change the planet, is much closer to our dream. Subversive vibrational shift of earth? Yeah, it's possible.

NO WAY! You caused me to rent and watch a movie titled "Mongolian Ping-pong" -- I saw your entry RIGHT AFTER I finished watching it. The key word in the movie is "pearl," a glowing pearl, to be precise. That's the word I was going to post here. OK... Spectrum, I had a dream (a while ago, but one of those significant ones that you don't forget) about finding a huge, stunningly beautiful pearl in an old mysterious theater, and a set of theatrical make-up. What do you make of it?

My mother in her mid-80s had two surgeries for a life threatening condition; the first emergency to stop the condition and the second to repair temporary elements from the first. She had thought out her choices and intention long before and had prepared a living will. After recovering from the violent hallucinations induced by the morphine given her after the second surgery, she talked quietly with me and said that she could not continue this medical path, and invoked her living will with absolute, crystal clear intent. Soon she was transferred to a palliative care ward. It was cramped and noisy; restless and uncomfortable for her initially. That evening she manifested many symptoms and several nurses and her doctor attended. My brother and his partner and my wife and I were there. At some point she escalated into severe coughing, mucus, and cramping; sitting up rapidly and falling back repeatedly. My brother and I were on either side of her bed at this point and the nurses and doctor standing by, not having any particular diagnosis or treatment at that moment. My brother and I were each holding an opposite hand and elbow of our mother through this sitting up / falling back in an effort to cushion and stabilize her motion, while talking to her to comfort and elicit her reports of what was the problem /what was it she needed. Both of us began to feel a great sense of heat/energy/scintillations in our hands, going deeper and deeper and rising in power. With this she relaxed and remained resting for a few moments and the nurses took over again. Astounded at this phenomenon, and having that energy remain pulsating rapidly throughout our hands we went out to the corridor where our partners were watching all this and waiting. We asked them to put their hands out in front of them face up, and then hovered our hands just above theirs without quite touching. They could feel very palpable persistent energy/vibrations/warmth from our hands, after wondering why we asked them to do this. What was that? As she was able to relax after this episode, but not having died then as seemed to be where things were headed that evening, she then slipped any medication out the side of her mouth and never ate or drank again, but agreed to me, my brother or our partners swabbing her mouth with a moisturizing gel. Fortunately she was able to be transferred to a private palliative care suite and lived relaxed, in and out of conscious lucid dream states talking but not in clear words to those in the dreams, and to us simultaneously for several days before going into a sleep/brief-waking/sleep cycles and then into a coma, until after my brother returned from a long-planned trip with his son, of about ten days. The next day with both my brother and I in her room with her, and after days of no movement and coma, she stirred, lifted her head the little she could and worked her desiccated mouth as best she could, determined to articulate what we heard as: "Thank you...", with the attempt at a smile as far as her body could then do that, and left her body then and there. These energies exist. If you aren't open and/or if you intend not to sense them, you likely may not. That does not prove they do not exist. Because they do not fit our model of the electromagnetic spectrum, or tickle our sensing instruments does not mean they do not exist. Although I have sensed and worked with my energies for some time, her emanations that evening took me completely by surprise and were so powerful, at first I did not equate what was happening to anything like chi. The doctor and nurses showed no interest in discussing it. It is salutary that just as physics thought we were finally approaching the Grand Unified Theory of everything physical/energetic, we found that the Standard Model and related variants only explain about 4% of reality and 96% is labelled Dark Energy and Dark Matter, two categories about which we can currently only begin to speculate. this is a good time to be enfleshed here artform

In fact : 1) Wet dream does not necessarily lead to nocturnal emission if all or most of your jing (sperm) are already transformed to qi; 2)Without wet dream, you still can have your jing lost in night time . Knowing the Time and change of yin and yang is always important .Before reaching the pre-heavenly level, you are still entangled by the forces of yin/yang , here , concretely speaking , movement of the moon and sun .

gung up, cross train, gung down into sleep. seek vibratory states between wake and sleep. It will start you in the direction of dream lucidity allowing "free will" to take hold in the randomness of the dream state which can be knee jerk, compulsive and full of "go to" habit patterns...

Has anyone read Bradford Keeney's new book, "Shamanic Christianity"? I'm quite curious since he describes in his other books how he has a spontaneous samadhi vision after a prolonged music-charismatic upbringing. Most people still rely on Christianity subconsciously when they enter into shamanic practice and therefore just repeat the same ritual-conceptual gimmicks.... Yeah I've been listening to "ECHOES OF THE FOREST" all night -- it's an amazing Pygmy c.d. and it's very similar but not quite as intense as NAMBIA: MUSIC OF THE JU'HUANSI BUSHMEN or close to that spelling. So I had to special order both of these and the later is the real thing -- intense trance dance music that was the original shamanism from 10,000 BCE to 80,000 BCE and older. I just finished the book NORTH TO THE NIGHT: A YEAR IN THE ARTIC ICE by Alvah Simon (1999). He has spent his life living with indigenous cultures and this book is the climax of that training. He has a precognitive dream about this artic fox and then he actually stands right up to a huge polar bear that amazingly spares his life. The book is full of near encounters with death -- all true and his love for life is really powerful. He lived alone on a boat in the Artic and almost went insane but pulled through somehow. As he reports the Inuit have this "Drum Song" that was banned by the Danes but the Inuit still practice dream songs, just like the aborigines, literally resonating with the consciousness of reality that creates life in Nature.

Last night I dreamt I was sitting in full-lotus in this basement and I was having this mutual climax with this babe and then I thought this has to be internal so I'll focus on meditation instead and wait for qigong master Chunyi Lin to give me a vision. This was all in my dream -- so I sat in full-lotus and thought he should arrive soon. Then all of a sudden I was woken from my dream by this loud knocking on our front door -- 3 times! Like an Edgar Allan Poe story -- I was immediately frozen pondering this first-time ever disturbance in the middle of the night, say 3 a.m. There's a second door to block the view from the outside window to the inside of the house but I've been leaving the 2nd door open to get more ventilation and I've seen street people wandering our alley a lot recently. But then I pondered the amazing coincidence that in my dream I was waiting for a message from qigong master Chunyi Lin and all of a sudden I woke to a strong message and pondered whether that message was also a dream.

Whoopsy!! First five syllables. Seven syllables are next. And five to finish ____ And a dream is done I dreamed of a butterfly Is it dreaming me?

However, Hawking radiation is a theory, it has never been observed, and phenomena it predicts have not been empirically verified. Unlike Einstein's relativity theory, which yields observable phenomena. And which predicts stable, growing black holes. There will be no immediate end of the world if these occur. The black holes might indeed be too small to notice. They will have grown bigger in four years, however. Or in four billion years. The thing is, no one knows. Safety to life on Earth is not a priority to any of our scientific projects. When the Challenger was headed for disaster, many scientists were saying so, saying it was not safe to launch it at the stage the project was, and they were called paranoid and overruled. Oh, and the Chernobyl reactor was supposed to be safe, and what happened was not part of the calculations. Events just have this annoying ability to ignore theoretical safety assumptions. It's not about whether the end of the world will be brought on by this specific bit of science. It's about all of it working in that general direction. In five days, five years, or fifty -- that's something no one knows. Y2K or particle accelerator or a weaponized virus or the nuclear tests or the nuclear war -- who knows. But there's too many happy little kids playing with too many big-ass matches all at once. Whoever guarantees they won't set anything on fire is living in a dream world, Neo.

The shell to your ear In silent desert whisper a dream is done Eternal Laugh

I'm trying to hold back the tears. I'm in full-lotus listening to Rokia Traore, her 1997 c.d. not sure the name but it's VERY beautiful kora music from Mali. It's in French -- o.k. I found it: Mouneissa. Anyway last night I had my best all-night listening experience with this amazing new C.D. of Bushmen trance healing music I got -- http://www.amazon.com/Namibia-Juhoansi-Bus...s/dp/B000003IG5 This is a REALLY excellent trance music c.d. made by real trance healers. So I sit in full-lotus to it for a couple hours and think well maybe this will be good for my dreams. Instead I dream that I'm underground or something and the Bushmen healers are pulling me straight out of my R.E.M. state -- I wake up and it's the most intense song on the C.D. -- the actual trance healing where the man is shrieking and the pitch keeps getting higher... So the Bushmen c.d. which was on very low volume pulled me out of deep r.e.m. sleep -- the hardest to wake up from. It's powerful trance music. The first song on the C.D. is by the young males who, as the liner notes explain, are taking a break from the isolated first training to become healers. It's just like the Taoist training -- away from the females, the males learn how to overcome fear, pain, hunger, tiredness, thirst. The singing on the c.d. is mainly from the very beautiful female singers -- doing antiphonal background to inspire the man for the trance dance healing. I read one review of Bradford Keeney's work that it must not be as real as the Bushmen healers that he promotes. Well the process is the same so that's what counts.

Thank you so much for this gift Taomeow. I met Max and Chris yesterday at a pre seminar talk. For a long time I have been vascillating between the two poles of should I , why should I. I was already on my way to Phoenix to participate when you started posting about your experiences and so I have been eagerly anticipating more from you before my own "experiment" will begin tomorrow. I had been undecided for several months but had missed the last cycle of classes. This time when new class schedule was posted for august/september I was still vascillating and the locations which made the most sense didn't make sense with my personal, business and family schedule. Then a night or two before leaving for a 10 day vacation in Northern california woodlands about three weeks ago I had a very significant dream. Unmistakably some form of connection or communication to/from or about Max which made it very clear to me that I would go. So here I sit in Phoenix waiting for tomorrow and what will come. I promise to report back. I also promise my prose will not reach Taomeows poetic heights. Meanwhile I will be awaiting the next installment more than eagerly. Craig

Cat, James, Seth, Durkhrod, Steve, i had to say all your names, coz the sincerity of these responses is very nice, so genuine - great to read truly, thanks for sharing. ........ for me, it's (this is woefully inadequate, but I'll try).......... Medicine Buddha Bhaisajya Guru Vaidurya Prabha. Amazing vows, deep wish and willingness to assist any sentient being in distress and to guide them on the path of Bodhi. The first time i heard the Dharani of Medince Master Buddha, though i had no understanding of the words, nor was i expecting anything for that matter, but words cannot describe the wonder that flooded through. Namo Bhaisajya Guru Vaidurya Prabha Guan Shi Yin Pusa (Avalokitesvara) Vows of such unlimited compassion for all beings (eg. not to rest untill all have entered Nirvana) First time i heard of this vow i cried and cried. Guan Yin's mantras are amazinglly powerful, (great compassion dharani, 6 syllable mantra) full of a gentle but profound power that speaks to the inherent heart or 'knowing'. The messages, or 'reminders' that come from Guan Yin are truly wonderful. This is very difficult to put in words. I humbly put my heart at the feet of Guan Yin. Guan Yin tells us that kindness is great indeed. Amitabha Buddha The 48 vows & to have created a land for cultivation, free of distractions & distress. And that for anyone who sincerly recites his name may be reborn there is simply wonderful to me, the epitome of kindness. Shakyamuni Buddha To have taught according to the capacity & understanding of every person is amazing inspiring......the fundamental teacher. Namo namo, namo. Earth store Bodihsattva Vows of sublime compassion that never cease to amaze me. For example: http://www.avatamsakavihara.org/earthStoreAssemblyEN.php Master Hsuan Hua met him in a dream which was very nice and very profound. his commentaries on the sutras and selfless service to help us understand are inspiring. I could never give this man enough thanks. Master Xianglintao Qigong master...........amazing person - teacher, healer, sifu etc etc. I don't talk about personal experience on a forum, so i won't say exactly what he's done for me,.........but Master Tao has done SO much, in so many ways. Master Feng. Qigong and Feng Shui Master. Has a very powerful teaching. His advice, assistance & teachings are invaluable to me. Hope this was'nt too long. There is much more that could be said in terms of experiences from & with these masters, but that's not as important as the underlying message that they deliver. That is to wash clean all the distortions from our minds and return to purity and to have kindness & compassion for all beings. And, i don't know why, but i don't like to refer to the term transmission, but it certainly applies in many of the above teachers/masters & gurus i am humbly thankful, and honest about this with gratitude to all of the above mentioned Thanks & bows.

http://www.blogger.com/profile/01076383477608864603 good luck guys, to live in a temple whit a Master like Wang Liping is really a big good dream!