Search the Community

I have no right to call myself one who knows. I was one who seeks, and I still am, but I no longer seek in the stars or in books; I'm beginning to hear the teachings of my blood pulsing within me. My story isn't pleasant, it's not sweet and harmonious like the invented stories; it tastes of folly and bewilderment, of madness and dream, like the life of all people who no longer want to lie to themselves. Hermann Hesse

See, there's the problem with patriarchy right there. Life is not about efficiency in matriarchy. (I am part cat, I know how important it is to be idle and to exist for pleasure and enjoyment, not for utility, as much of the time as possible.) Yes, women can do everything men can do. Yes, one good stud per group would suffice if it was all about efficiency. We could all be amazons and throw male offspring off the cliff. Amazons (if they ever existed) were not a matriarchal society though. They were an efficient war machine modeled on the patriarchal ways. (Role playing, acting as honorary males -- just like our modern female politicians who are not really women in any sense other than anatomical, they are, for all social purposes, patriarchal overlords.) Your dream of harems is a patriarchal dream. In matriarchy on which, e.g., the Miao tribe's ancient ways were still modeled until very recently (now rapidly going extinct through the combined effort of the CCP and Western tourism), men don't get to run harems -- women get to choose their pleasure. Extra men who are not "necessary" for procreation don't get discarded -- why discard a willing and able source of pleasure? Not just sexual pleasure, mind you -- the pleasure of manhood in all of its manifestations. Men who don't have their heads full of what don Juan called "violent dreams" are delightful creatures. Naturally delightful, they don't have to prove it via accomplishments, they justify their existence by existing. (Of course so do women, in the real world we lost.)

In non-technical language another piece of the puzzle was given to me from a friend who had a dream for me - in her dream she was a messenger who had to deliver a letter to me - and in short her dream was about passing three tests. The first was a test of courage, I had to ‘use my strength’ to face what I most feared In the world, the second was a requirement to ‘climb the mountain’ which to me in retrospect was surmounting a multitude of emotional issues, and the third test was to ‘not respond’, in full I was informed that to pass this test I had to “Do not speak, do not move, do not look to the left or the right, do not respond”. This is a non-emotional test, and only to be done after the first two had been completed. ‘Do not respond’ sounds more ‘spiritual’, more in line with Buddhism or Daoism, but in this message to me it was the third test, there was a definite order in which to do things. This all boils down in my mind to 1. Face the fear in the gut, 2. Attend to the feelings in the heart, and 3. Get out of the way and allow the subtle body system to do its thing, don’t be distracted by Siddhi’s, and don’t engage in the dynamics of the two polarised side channels. It’s doing the third test at the beginning where I think things can go wrong.

“Your mind has its own ideas of what you think you need, but it's rarely correct”. I fully agree, but if I am guided by my dreams am I ‘picking the trauma to be worked with’? There is a grand design in dream work, it requires only that we follow it and work with what is presented to us at any point in time. FWIW I rarely have any dreams now anyway, it seems that what needed to be released has been. My subtle energy body now develops in its own predetermined way, I merely follow its progress, and occasionally do what is required to enable its unfolding. I don’t feel I am violating underlying Daoist principles.

I'm not too familiar with practicing humility or the other treasures, but where can there even be inequality? This whole existence is truly no more significant than a dream. Though seeming to be long, that does not change its dreamlike nature. Then who is the oppressor and who is the oppressed? Like the monsters in a nightmare, or the wealth gained in a dream; neither truly are. Even then, what were horrid deeds in the past are soon erased by time. Equally erased are the great boons pledged to even the mightiest emperors. Soon even traces of this understanding shall erase itself, then even the erasure itself will be gone. So let those who cry from injustice cry, and let those who smile with their ill gotten prosperity do the same. When all this is akin to a dream, where can there be good and evil? Suffering and prosperity? Merit and demerit? Let the ignorant illuminate this as false, and let the sages steadily know it. Let the animals and humans rest in their sentience, let plants rest in their idleness, and let rocks rest in endless slumber. Let all these things be, and know there be no difference between animals, plants, and objects. For all of these notions can only be compared in imagination, just as the taste of imaginary fruit can only be compared with the advent of imaginary tastes. Wise men know this fact. They who do not know this, are restless. For even if they attain quietude of the mind by great discipline, they easily lose it to distraction. Believing themselves to be related to gains and loss, they mourn, "Oh I have lost the self!" Lecture aside, it is by my understanding that all three treasures are really just equanimity. For compassion then shines through unconditional love, conservation then exists through all things being, and humility is rooted by the understanding that all things are equal.

I am reminded of something TWR said during the dream yoga course regarding recurring dreams. It basically boiled down to them occurring because we were being a bad listener. And as it relates to what you’ve written (in my personal experience), when “the message” (typically related to just that split off baggage you refer to) is heard/acknowledged/accepted and sometimes worked through in the “real world” they naturally stop occurring. In my practices, I noticed energetic expressions from largely forgotten physical traumas arising, and because they were so specific the originating incidents were much easier to recognize and trace - lending themselves to my ability to agree in part with what freeform presented. The interesting thing was it seems what others perceived as my equanimity appears to have lent itself to a storing of energetics related to trauma. I tend to agree.

In my view unfelt emotions are split-off baggage, welcoming them when they arise in ‘the work’ and feeling them is respecting their emotional nature. When they are felt they have delivered their message and are then released. I did work with emotions within a system, it wasn’t random emotions arising and random feeling, I worked with a deliberate method that involved remembering and analysing a dream to understand it intellectually, and then letting go of the mental side and purely feeling the feeling. There is a certain equanimity required when feeling the feeling, especially because most stored feelings are the hard to feel ones, equanimity is needed to allow them to be felt, but I think your idea of equanimity might be a bit more austere, somehow allow an emotion but don’t actually connect to it in some way. This quite frankly confuses me. I agree with you that there is Qi work to be done and that it is valuable, but for me Qi work achieves different outcomes, it clears channels that have nothing to do with emotions, for example channels down the arms which can then carry Qi ‘current’. I think there is an institutional fear of emotions that has also become part of the spiritual belief set, something along the lines of a patriarchal perspective that has dominated for the last couple of Millenia at least. I think things are changing now though, emotions and their value are being re-evaluated in the last 100 years or so.

@johndoe2012 and everyone, What I was trying to get in the question is perhaps best illustrated by outer or ordinary life. People have their comfort zones as @manitou pointed out. many people run through a routine life - because of safety and sometimes even if this routine is painful in some ways at least it is familiar. So there's a kind of comfort even in negative states. This applies to internal emotional life as well - most people have a set range or feelings, responses and emotions which they habitually inhabit. These may be part painful, part happy but in the end they are inertic. Their mind is just running through certain strands and unless life kicks them in the butt somehow they are unlikely to leave this 'nest'. So @Bindi this is what I mean about clinging to negative states. I think we do it. It is very hard to shake. Very hard to get out of. @manitou you mentioned judging people and this reflecting back onto you. I admit to this. I do it - but also sometimes its just the truth about people. In my experience there is a big difference between those who cultivate and those who don't. And those who don't like to bind you with their second attention, their dream minds into whatever world they create. I try to treat all with respect and kindness - because that is the way. But that doesn't mean I have to be blind to what people do and how they are. @Nungali the symbolism is very interesting. I think the role of Mercury/Hermes/Thoth is key. We mediate between the sun and moon and this is a key alchemical process. Thanks everyone.

None of you should feel grief about having no dream. For when a person becomes deep-rooted in knowledge, dream will be taken away from him. — Prophet Muhammad

I have been practicing Taoist internal alchemy methods, I created a crystal of shen (spirit) in my lower dan tien which fills my body with light. The same as external alchemists cook materials in a cauldren, I cooked jing and chi in the cauldren of my dan tien to create the crystal; the sexual glands are the 'stove' which heats the cauldren. It took me two days to do, that night I dreamed about the five elements (I had not been thinking about the five elements before the dream).

Haha, I feel a bit the same. I can explain welkin's first post from my POV though. I tend to have a bad habit of lecturing (sorry for the times I've done in the past, I keep it to my ppd now) so I'll try to keep things short to my personal experience. One day I am full of knowledge, and another day I am full of ignorance. Where has knowledge gone and ignorance appeared? One can point to the neuron behavior and so on, how the brain store memory etc, and how physical laws provide a basis for all of this but even physical laws eventually fade away. Science is beginning to touch on this with the heat death of the universe, but personally I didn't arrive at the conclusion through scientific theory. So basically the question remains that where do all these things go? Happiness, sorrow, laws, movement, etc. They all seem to arise and disappear, and even that which does appear seems to be like a heavily colored canvas, which lacks any substantiality. Just like how a fruit painted in a picture, cannot be tasted or grasped. Ex: perception of time is based on past, present and future but all things are observed in the present so how can there be past or future? Yada yada yada and bam. All that can remain is the undifferentiated and unattributed self, in which all things can momentarily arise and disappear as if they have never arisen. Just as how many differently shape bracelets can appear out of the same gold. Yet the gold remains unchanged. For me even knowing this isn't really worth anything, as the sage and the fool are of no difference. The self does not distinguish between the one who knows and the one who doesn't. Similarly, the villain and the hero are of the same merit, for when the truth remains unchanged, what wrong deed or even good deed could have been committed? What is gained from purity that is only obtained momentarily and then lost? What is lost from impurity or sin, that seems to make one lose greatly yet disappears easily. What is even gained from knowing the truth or liberation? Samsara itself is but a play, whether it happens or not do not concern me or anyone, whether they seem to believe it or not. All these things are like dream objects, they do not obtain or lose anything. It is a mirage, without substance though appearing to be solid. Hence all that remains is the truth, which cannot be perceived as an object, but simply is. sidenote/this might be easier to understand: I would feel that getting to the Truth has to do with more of the destruction of knowledge than the obtaining of it. Knowing what the truth is, really isn't more significant from not knowing what the truth is, but it at least allows for one to establish clear vision and sort things out. Seeing clearly means looking past personal emotions/attachments. When someone starts to hear about the world is unreal yada yada it becomes a lot easier to see clearly or enquire. This can be mistake for detachment a lot of times but it isn't really necessary for this process, just indifference or constant enquiry into the personal experience. Even those things aren't necessary, for even worms can attain "liberated". That point aside, at some point knowledge starts to get destroyed faster and faster, regardless of what you do. When all knowledge is finally destroyed, that is liberation/enlightenment. Though enlightenment itself is like a change to an object in a dream.

That's an interesting theory based on the conventional majority view but an examination of the nature of dreaming can be used to reveal that the world has no more reality than a lucid dream. Alternatively, the conventional belief in the existence of the world can be deconstructed by a myriad of other methods. However, those are two completely different topics. The topic of this thread is the practical applications of Jung's theory about the Shadow. \thread ends\ (unless anyone gets back on topic within 48 hours.) 😉

No, I have developed my own dream work methods, like you not Jungian. I learnt more from reading Edgar Cayce and Denise Linn, and attending one seminar.

Thanks Bindi! I don't approach dream interpretation either with myself or with clients in the way that Jung seems to have approached it. Nevertheless, I'm glad that his work on dreams is useful for your own Shadow work.

Your post just made me laugh, I liked your attitude I read one Jung book, “memories, dreams, reflections”, and that was enough, my main interest was in dream interpretation and working with dreams, which is intrinsically shadow work anyway.

Cleansox mentioned “insubstantial water” as being the substance worked with in neidan in another thread, instead of commenting on it in that thread I wanted to bring it here because in dream work water relates to the state of the emotions, dirty water, wild water, no water, it’s like an analogy for what I perceive as the emotional channel and the state of it. I don’t know if people who have studied under neidan masters would agree that “insubstantial water” = emotions, but I thought this was worth pursuing as part of this topic.

I think it is a sign of openness and connectedness. I suggest a creative outlet to channel the imagination - prose, poetry, music, painting, drawing, dance, higher maths, a non-profit, whatever... something to focus it a bit. And that can change from time to time. Sounds like you’re quite literally living the dream. Congrats!

SirP added a bit more of the historical details (which I know well enough... the leader of the reformation, Protopope Avvacum, even visited me in a dream in my rebellious youth and instructed me, then a passionate and reckless dissident, in the art of curbing my enthusiasm for truth toward avoiding pointless martyrdom.) But if we don't focus on the details and take a google earth-like view of the whole, I believe the whole of our history, past, present, and in all likelihood future, is a lot like that -- the model of social strife is to fight each other to the bitter end over a finger's worth of differences while the organizers of the strife quietly steal a planet's worth of what really matters to all sides. Jonathan Swift had a similar model in mind when he described the Big-Endians' rebellion against the Little-Endians over which end of the boiled egg is the correct one to break.

Earl Grey is suspended for 60 days. This is the remainder of the initial 90 day suspension issued by Trunk (and mentioned in the opening post of this thread) for the personal takedown of members - a behavior he again engaged in, in two separate threads. This is the final warning. Another suspension will not be issued to Earl Grey for this behavior. If he returns from this suspension and again engages in a personal takedown of any member of this community he will be permanently banned. 1 steve responded to this We must be careful not to store up the teachings as only conceptual understanding lest that conceptual understanding becomes a block to wisdom. The teachings are not ideas to be collected, but a path to be followed. - TWR The Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep PREV 1 2 3 4 Page 4 of 4 This topic is now closed to further replies. NOT TRUE HERE!!

I read it. Broke my heart... "It was a beautiful dream. And I, to whom so great a vision was given in my youth,—you see me now a pitiful old man who has done nothing, for the nation's hoop is broken and scattered. There is no center any longer, and the sacred tree is dead." Black Elk, "The End of the Dream" (1932).

Hello tombajo, this thread is really confusing. I think people should have asked HOW you will modernise what you learned.i mean i can understand the criticism because there a lot of bullshit self made systems.but in some way wang xianzhai also modernised xing yi...... That wouldnt have put you into this "defender role". People are often way to fast when communicating over the internet. If i did knew that i have awesome stuff and everybody directly critices or even laughs about i dont how i would have reacted but i am more a let them talk person then a fighter. I can relate to what you say about dark energy but i find it difficult to use science language for those experiences.i got catapulted out of the center of head and got shot through " hyperspace " into a "blackhole" , i also perceived this world as a dream but it frightened me off.since this "blackhole" experience the energy in my system got so strong that i blackouted a few times during qigong. ( practiced zhang zhuang for around 7 years intensly, then got into spontaneous qigong on my own ) since then i could do some energy healings on others also long distance that were quite amazing. As for your videos. Its not so easy for me to put in words.in my experience fajins that come out of nothing like the ones you do walking ,are only possible if you are in a very special state, there has to be alchemy going on. Its not like start a movement by initiating it from lower dantian what a lot taiji systems do. I also noticed that your breathing was in harmony with the strike what speaks for a good "mind body connection". When i do spontaneous qigong i sometimes get into a drunken immortal state. Energy changes completely ,also my perception.when fajinscome out in this state they are again very different. Would you make your videos public again if i post a little clip? And maybe think about opening up a personal praxtice thread here. For me it was nearly the same when i showed stuff here.some masters said it hasnt to do anything with qigong/taiji , some were neutral giving advices and a chinese lady congrated me for having found the true secret lost meditation from old daoists 😂 I would like to hear more from you.

@silent thunder Thanks for the fascinating stories! Verily you're my spirit brother from the Great Mother! The same thing happened to me -- a red-tailed hawk dropped a feather at my feet, at a very significant point in my life. It was in 1996. I still have it. I keep it in my bedroom by the window, just standing in a little cloisonne vase. For some reason, which I no longer remember, I decided it's a deflector of bad dreams, like a dream catcher. I never had a bad dream in all these years. Wish it was also as efficient for my waking life, where shit does happen, no doubt about it.

After 51 years in this waking dream... and 47 years of lucid dreaming... the boundaries between them becomes less substantial and distinct with each passing season and cycle of growth. I have always experienced much resonant familiarity in the manners in which the Tibetans frame the dream like quality of 'waking life'. The Bard has quite a few references to it as well. "And like the baseless fabric of this vision, The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, The solemn temples, the great globe itself— Yea, all which it inherit—shall dissolve, And like this insubstantial pageant faded, Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff As dreams are made on, and our little life Is rounded with a sleep." Prospero, The Tempest, Act 4 sc. 1 "When I waked, I cried to dream again" (Caliban, The Tempest) "‘To die, to sleep – to sleep – perchance to dream: ay, there’s the rub, for in that sleep of death what dreams may come when we have shuffled off this mortal coil, must give us pause.’ Hamlet ‘If it be thus to dream, still let me sleep!’ (Sebastian Twelfth Night)

Actually you are mistaken about dream and lucidity. You must understand what is happening when you dream. The space itself on the otherside is reactive. It will create what ever you think of and it will develop intentions on it's own. This is a basic quality of space itself. Hence where our dreams come from.... You are on the otherside and don't realize it. The degree you remember, the degree you have control, and so on is directly correlated to the degree of your consciousness. To people talking shit about what I am saying. Do you really think I was taught this??? Have you heard this anywhere else??? Although the southern style is by far the most popular, because of Mr. Chia. No these are my discoveries do to my own experiments and so on. I am actually quoting Mr. Liping on his description of the three immortals. I did say I was ignorant of the system did I not? Good luck......

If you wish your wisdom to be valued, perhaps start valuing the wisdom of others. If you make your interactions here more reciprocal, you may find yourself having a very different (and perhaps more enjoyable) experience. My primary practice at this time is dream yoga, and what you describe in your question reflects the dawning of lucidity. This is a means by which the individual recognizes the personally created aspect of their experience - which correlates to what I have seen you post elsewhere. (Which is only pertinent to a Daoist discussion in so far as you have highlighted Buddhist influence.)