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A few comments from my own dream practice: The specific method may be less important than cultivating the proper approach and attitude. The intent, dedication, and consistency are critical. The practice needs to be a 24 hour cycle - daytime, preparation for sleep, during sleep, and upon awakening. Alcohol and drugs can erase months of work in no time at all... Cultivating lucidity has been quite elusive for me but I have had a lot of great success. It took me a very long time to see results. We have to be patient and supportive of ourselves. We need to be committed but not overly serious. Playful but consistent. Reverent but relaxed. I think the more esoteric approaches have one significant advantage - integrating the spiritual view and practices with the dream practice makes it easier for us to connect to ourselves at a deeper, more subtle level. Dream practice is about building a bridge between the light and the dark, the obvious and the subtle, between two realities. If we can develop a feeling of reverence and great respect, it helps. If we can develop great confidence and trust in the method and the teacher, it helps. This is why connecting to your body when you do daytime practices and reminders is so important. The message, the bridge, needs to connect deeper than the intellect for it to come up in dream. I suggest you connect with your body, allow the mind and internal dialogue to settle, feel and rest in that internal space, feel supported and comfortable there, connect for a while and then give yourself whatever instruction or reminder you prefer (I use - this is a dream, this is a dream, I am free to do anything, this is a dream... and so on). Try to repeat this at least 15 times a day. If you're willing to spend a little cash there are frequent online workshops available from a variety of good teachers here - http://www.glidewing.com/ (Robert Waggoner, Marc Allen, Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche) Finally, I'd highly recommend Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep. Even though it is quite esoteric, it has a great deal of valuable information much of which is easily adaptable to a more secular approach. While you may chose not to practice the specific techniques the book is well worth reading. Good luck!

Hello All, I wonder if anyone has done this Lama's Tibetan Yoga and dream practice? Also maybe Max or Lama Surya Das may know each other or run into each other during there studies in Tibet? This guy seems to have been around for a while teaching Vajrayana and his Tibetan Yoga, is he the real deal seems to be very knowledgable!? WYG http://www.surya.org/ http://www.dzogchen.org/index.htm http://www.dzogchen.org/library/bios/dzogchen-lineage.htm

The schools Lama Jampa Thaye follows are both Kagyu and Sakya....and the school Lama Glenn follows is Drikung Kagyu. That Drikung is the same school followed by the Mongol king Hulagu Khan, in the Middle East. Hulagu Khan's brother Kublai Khan came to power in China and Hulagu then came under the influence of the Tibetan school which Kublai followed which was Sakya. Conflict erupted between Sakya and Drikung inside Tibet (between the followers of Hulagu and Kublai). Today China's under the Sakya rule, and the followers of Drikung and Hulagu have been absorbed into the empire of the Middle East, where there's a mix of Christians and Muslims that have drowned out the Buddhists of the founder Hulagu''s time. Buddhism's Apocalypse prophecy is in the Kalachakra text that's being propagated worldwide by the Tibetan lamas. And in that prophecy, is the mention of a mythical hidden land called Shambhala (which is situated to the West of Tibet i.e. exactly where Hulagu Khan's Middle Eastern Empire is.). So let's roll this back and sum it up quickly: there's a Buddhist Empire left behind in Tibet by Kublai Khan extending into China, but his brother Hulagu had his own private empire extending from Pakistan/Afghanistan and the Tibetan border areas, all the way to Baghdad/middle of Turkey, Konya etc...and Hulagu's empire was Drikung Kagyu. And bingo! Hulagu's empire of "Hulagid" Ilkhanids aka "The Ilkhanate" fits the description of Shambhala and the Savior of the world known as the King of Shambhala. It's fitting that Hulagu ruled over a puzzle of faiths, including Christians, Jews, Muslims and Hulagu's own Buddhists. He was thus the savior and god-like figure for all those assembled faiths. It's noteworthy that Hulagu's empire outlasted him by far, with an offspring of successors-descendants of his family lineage that lasted for 80 long years. We're thus in presence of the messianic King of Shambhala of the Kalchakra prophecy. What's remarkable is that he's Drikung Kagyu, exactly like Lama Glenn. Drikung was totally taken over by Sakya during their war, but 200 years after Hulagu's death, a Sakya lama (Kunga Zangpo) arose who split from Sakya because he was independent and wanted to return to a stricter path than Sakya's own path. So, he totally revamped Sakya and asserted his school of Ngor as the primary force inside Sakya by far, as he actually dwarfed Sakya by his work. Then a split occurred because part of Sakya left it to found a new school the Gelugpas, and Kunga Zangpo couldn't agree with them because they adopted a way of practicing that excluded Tantrism until the latter part of the practice when the practitioners were already too old to do meditation, which "Ngorchen" Kunga Zangpo couldn't accept. He thus retreated to his monastery at Ngor and decided to carve out a niche region for his school far from the "roar and heat" of Tibetan politics. Pondering his isolation faced with this opposition that was rising against him, he sought to find a path outside of Tibet, (because neighboring tracts beyond the borders offered Buddhist regions, as well). That's when he traveled to and developed Buddhism in an abandoned stretch of land to the West of Ngor called Ngari which happened to be a traditional land of the Drikung Kagyus who had temples surrounding the Kailash sacred mountain and extending also to Ladakh. And this stretch of land was a dependency of Hulagu Khan's Empire (meaning: Hulagu raised taxes there). So when the Kalachakra speaks about Shambhala it's a mythical faraway land hidden from the view. But suddenly it comes into sharp focus at very close quarters, because the Ngari region is inside Tibet itself, but relies upon the empire of Hulagu who's headquarters are in Iranian Azerbaijan. Suddenly this monstrously extensive, megalithic empire rises out of the past and crushes everything on it's path. By Ngorchen Kunga Zangpo's strenuous efforts, the Ngari region became completely Ngorpa, of the Sakya school, but it's noteworthy to see that it was a traditionally Drikungpa land and one belonging to the Mongol Hulagu. Now nothing happens by chance, and it's good to note that the Kalachakra itself was written by a Sakya lama called Buton Rinchen Drub , just eighty years after Hulagu's death and was certainly a hidden hommage to Hulagu's protective action towards Tibet and Buddhism versus the devastations wreaked by Islam at that time. Therefore, Kunga Zangpo's decision to take over the Hulagu-Drikung part of Tibet called Ngari came once the Kalachakra had become vastly widespread in Tibet and thus Kunga Zangpo was taking an early investment into the Hulagu Empire which the Kalachakra prophecy announces. Kunga Zangpo was thus buying himself part of the dream and prophecy of the end of the world and inserting himself into the past as the rightful heir of the Kalachakra. In such, I think that the successions of reincarnations of Kings of Shambhala, (which was a lineage certainly written by the Sakya lama Buton), are made up of the Sakya school's founder Birwapa, followed by Hulagu (a combined Drikung/Sakya), then Buton Rinchen Drub and finally Ngorchen Kunga Zangpo (among the list of Kings of Shambhala). I see them all as clearly actors in the "Shambhala Saga" and having the status of "Kings of Shambhala". This was my input to Jigten Gonpo's post above. Very happy to hear from you Jigten...I'm most happy to hear what others want to add to all this. It's good to have proof of things, that's incontrovertible and proof that cannot be denied. I searched for Shambhala on Google and found the land of Bilad-al-Sham, corresponding to The Levant (Israel, Lebanon and Irak/Iran). Then I searched for people called Shambhala. I found two contemporaries of Hulagu which was troubling because I thought they could be allusions to Hulagu. Because indeed, "otherwise why should such people live exactly at the same places (Hulagu's capital was Maragha in Iranian Azerbaijan) and same time as Hulagu?" That's the rhetorical question, which any sleuth like me, researching history, should obviously want to ask themselves. Those two people were respectively called "Shams-e Tabrizi" and "Shams al-Din". They're Muslim luminaries and are rivaling candidates to be the Messiah respectively of the brotherly enemies: Sunnites and Shiites. Seeing the Mongols prospered for eighty years and converted to Islam during forty of those years, it's impossible to not think that Hulagu's heritage was progressively merged into the Muslim heritage. So concretely how did they merge a Buddhist king like Hulagu into Islam via these two "Shams" figures? The answer is perfectly self-evident: The Drikung Hulagu messianic founder of the Ilkhanate dynasty was the future Messiah of the Islamic Sunnites, but also the Shiites. His successors at the helm of the Ilkhanate couldn't let anyone take the role of Messiah from them. Therefore they jealously attributed the top religious role(s) to themselves by using their founder and grandfather Hulagu as their champion and "chosen one". But secretly, Hulagu was and remained Buddhist in their tradition. And in Tibet, many regions remained Drikungpa. Hulagu could thus be named openly as the Messiah in the Drikung regions and temples of Tibet. But that would not have been plausible at all, for one good reason which was that in Tibet also, Hulagu's role as BUDDHIST Messiah was hidden because Kublai's operatives were on guard there. No Mongol such as Kublai would have been ready to grant to his brother Hulagu the role of Messiah and world Savior. That goes against the Mongol grain of one-upmanship among Genghis Khan's offspring's siblings. But over the years, the Sakya realized that they had inherited this surprising, extraordinary and wonder-filled, miraculous war treasure, which was this messianic king Hulagu and they didn't want to let go of it. Thus, the rewriting of the secretive biography of Hulagu in the Kalachakra, left open the possibility for a future resurrection and returning to rule, of that historical hair-raising figure of Hulagu Khan, the Messiah (of all faiths... even sunni muslims, shiites... and jews...and christians of course. Hulagu's quoted in his writings saying he loved christians, Christians had brought him up. His wife and mother were extremely fervent christians and he had saved the christians in Bahgdad when he razed that in the greatest massacre of the whole History of Humanity. The christians in the East had hailed him as the messianic Savior of Christianity: the Messiah). Forward to Jampa Thaye and Glenn Mullin please, thank you so much!

Hey.....I was thinking about make a topic about this...since a lot of us have certain special powers..why don't we win the lottery? You don't need I Ching. I Ching is for people not in tune with their own mind essence. The question is that why can't you see or predict when you would win the lottery? I have plenty of dreams about numbers... Trust me, I play the lottery but the most I have ever won was only 2 numbers...LOL... I just spent $4 today because I was in the check cashing place. For someone like myself who frequently would have precognitive dream messages, why don't I receive messages about me winning the lottery???? I dream about counting money (I was a big time store manager for 5 years managing a large retain chain) and I counted a lot of money every night closing. Receiving money and checks. Even in one dream I was guaranteed an inheritance from some deceased old lady (not that I was related to her). Never once I dream about me winning the lottery in a very strong dream message kind of way.... Perhaps, Karma plays a role here??? When comes to wealth, the law Karma works differently???

I believe you may be thinking of "The Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep" by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche (spelling may not be correct). It's solid as far as techniques within that tradition, though they may or may not be useful for you personally. As to your general question, there are lots of resources for that. But seeing as how you mention not having that great of results from the internet, I'm guessing you've probably seen most of anything to link to anyway. As someone who's done a lot of study independent of any personal teachers, I'm going to say that you're going to have to "read between the lines" when you self study. By that, I mean you're going to have to be very self aware about what works and what isn't working. You can't be afraid to do your own thing, and to go with what feels right. Since you don't have a personal teacher to tailor the teaching to you, and all you have is a bunch of "general info", you're going to have to build yourself up on your own. Sometimes you can do this, and sometimes you need outside input. So as you're waiting for a more full response, just keep that in mind. Also, I do believe that dream yoga is much like stuff like sex practices, practices to increase bodily strength, practices to develop other siddhis, etc etc, in that they aren't stand alone practices, but they are parts of a greater whole, and they aren't meant to be done on their own. As in, they should be integrated with the clarity of mind created in meditation. Empowered by the energy gathered through, say, sex practices (but that's not the only practice that can amass energy!), and balanced by the health of the body. I stopped focusing on dream work after years of doing so after an experience I had. There was a week in which I was going to have my apartment all to myself, no roommates or neighbors or family were going to be around. So I stocked up on some food (I'm not really a faster ) and I devoted the entire week to focusing my mind and getting conscious dreams. Well I had some rather interesting experiences, but I realized something- a huge portion of my dream content was unresolved content from my daily life. I saw dream images of thoughts I had had throughout the day. I saw dream content of conversations I had had in the past. I saw dream content from parts of my life. Etc etc etc. Basically, since I had cut off any extraneous sensory input during that week (no tv, internet, music, human contact, etc etc), my mind was able to "keep up" with what I DID have going on- and it was mostly just stuff from my mind. The rest of my dreams over my span of doing dream work, while interesting, was completely unverifiable. So I put it down in the "that was neat" category, but had no reliable way of following up on the matter- particularly not through dreams because my dreams were still very much filled with day to day content. So yes, I do believe that dream yoga and experiences can be very powerful and can ultimately lead to *insert your goal here*. However, I think that they won't be as effective if you are just doing dream work. Sure, you can use dream work to clear out your mental clutter- but you can also do meditation during "waking" hours. You can purify your mind and your energy in other, possibly more efficient ways. You can work on developing your consciousness so it doesn't space out, so you are continually more aware, which would then carry over into your dreams. Dream work is good. Dream work can be very powerful. But it is not the most efficient method of doing everything that (I think) is encompassed in a complete spiritual practice. Anyway, keep on looking for a competent teacher/method which includes everything that you want it to. But I'd suggest you keep what I said in mind. Because unless you've got a decent amount of foundational work in other areas, the most you're going to be doing in dream yoga is stuff you could have done more efficiently using other means.

I had a dream, which was not all a dream. The bright sun was extinguish'd, and the stars Did wander darkling in the eternal space, Rayless, and pathless, and the icy earth Swung blind and blackening in the moonless air; Morn came and went—and came, and brought no day -- Lord Byron

Section 8 - The ceremonies and the ceremonial dynamics LOL. First of all, it's not lost on me that this falls under Section 8. I know it sounds that way anyway. but I'm going to lay them out here. First, let me say that I started doing these ceremonies several years ago after reading Mary Baker Eddy's Science and Health. I hadn't been doing ceremony prior to that, only running of energy through my hands for minor aches and pains, things like that. Sometimes that works out well, sometimes it doesn't - depending, I think, on the mindset of both the person doing the energy run and the person receiving. If there is too much going on mentally, or too much tension in the body, i think there are blockages. But after reading Ms. Baker Eddy's incredibly metaphysical healing book, I went over to ceremony, minus the reliance on Jesus. Actually, there wasn't much Christianity to sidestep in the book anyway, very little mention. It was mainly metaphysical dynamics, much in the manner of Helena Blavatsky, Manley Hall, or other great metaphysicians. The first couple times I tried produced no results. It hadn't occurred to me yet to do the 'pretending aspect, the Mind of a child aspect' yet. My first exposure was with a little boy named JoJo who had very late stage bone cancer. I came into the scene very late indeed, probably even too late to do anything even if I knew what I was doing. I had read about him in the local paper and started sending money monthly to his family to help with medical expenses. His mom called to introduce herself one day and thank me for the money, and we became friends from that point on. We did talk about a healing ceremony, and she asked me if I would try one, although she was ultra Christian. She was desperate. I did try, using my staff and all the accoutrements, but it was unproductive. What I did miss during that first ceremony was the fact that the son was taking on his father's excruciating back pain, which I knew nothing about. It caused his father to keep working in a lumberyard, very heavy labor, and his complaints of pain would come home with him every night. I think JoJo felt bad because he felt that he was the cause of his father's pain, in that JoJo required so much medical treatment. I say this only in retrospect. I really don't think there was any time to change any dynamic at all. The second time was with a close friend of ours with cancer, named Mo. It ravaged his entire body. I knew enough by then to realize that the cancer dynamic that was 'eating him up' was his unwillingness to forgive his wife for a decision she made about how to raise their kids years back. He put his foot down at the time, said he was going to move out if she didn't do it his way (I can't remember what the family dynamic was that they were at odds about). At any rate, he did move out, they didn't get divorced but continued to live separately, and spoke to each other very seldom. He missed his children terribly, but he was too proud to renege on his original statement about moving out. That lasted for years, and it was during those years that the cancer appeared. Again, Joe and I tried several ceremonies and Mo always felt better when we laid hands on him, but he too died from the disease. We came into the game very late on that one as well. The following ceremonies are the ones that we have had success with, two are still up in the air. I have mentioned one or two of these on other threads in the past, so please excuse me if this is redundant because you read one of them somewhere else. But I'll reiterate in more detail here. Lorena's ceremony The first success we actually had with cancer was with a woman I knew from Alcoholics Anonymous, a very Catholic believer. Her name was Lorena, and she was 82 years old. Out of the blue, she developed breast cancer at that very late age, which seemed very odd to me. I decided to talk to her to see what was going on in her life, I didn't know her all that well, only from the periodic meeting I would see her at. The first thing that occurred to me was that breast cancer was most likely a motherhood issue, particularly for it to develop so suddenly in someone of that age. Motherhood, or something like motherhood, seeing as it developed in the breast. In talking to her, sure enough, her 56 year old son and his wife had recently moved in with her because he had lost his job. they had been living with her for several months, were not being terribly kind to her, and were eating her out of house and home. She was very worried about money and how she was going to support all of them, plus the fact that he had a foul temper and she was walking on eggs around him. It wasn't a good situation at all. We gave it some thought, and having recently read Mary Baker Eddy's book, we decided to try and reverse the dynamic. Lorena was amenable to a ceremony. I asked her to provide a picture of her son and his wife. I ran a picture of Jesus off the internet, as I knew that that's where her heart was. I found a pretty little wooden box and we decided to have Lorena bury the picture of her son and his wife, with Jesus' picture on top of them in the ground. Joe dug a hole toward the back of her property under a beautiful oak tree with a shovel, as the 82 year old Lorena wouldn't be able to do that. This was the first time we drew the circle with our staffs and designated a sacred area. We had Lorena step into 'her' sacred area, and asked her to invite us in, after we circled her and reversed direction.. We had brought a CD player and were playing some Native American music, as a transport. Joe did much of the ceremony, as it just sort of channeled out of him; something about having her face to the north, to the south, to the east, to the west; he's an Apache man and I don't know if this was something already inside him or not, but it was beautiful. We all took a drag from a peace pipe we had brought, and we had Lorena hold the box, gaze at the picture of her son and his wife, and ask Jesus to take care of them. She told Jesus that she was no longer capable of taking care of them. Tears came to her eyes as she placed the box in the ground and covered it with dirt. When she straightened back up, she sort of hollered in surprise, said she felt this strange jagged energy running up her legs. This was the first (and only) time I have actually had the confirmation of kundalini energy coming up out of the ground and attending a ceremony. But it certainly was a confirmation of the effectiveness of the reversal. After the jagged energy stopped going up her legs, we concluded the ceremony - can't remember how we did, but it was something simple. We had her sit down on a nearby bench, she was sort of exhausted after that. Joe, for some reason, decided to double check the appearance of the kundalini energy, and he circled one of her feet with the strap on the peace pipe. Sure enough, the kundalini energy started up her leg again. Double confirmation. She phoned us a few days after the ceremony, said she'd been to the oncologist, and that the cancer had disappeared. As this was our first success with anything of this nature, we were dumbfounded. Our first instinct was to write it off as coincidence, but the appearance of the kundalini energy kept niggling at my brain and I knew that there was something more at work here. The Mind of the Child aspect of this was in re-enacting the burying of the pictures in the box, along with the picture of Jesus, and have a childlike faith (in her mind) that Jesus was going to take care of them, and that they would be okay without her help. This seemed to be all it took in this particular case - plus, we were lucky to have caught the cancer in an early stage. Joshua's ceremony This one defies belief even more than the above one. Joshua is a 15 year old boy that we'd never met. I was taking a belly dance class with his aunt, Chrissy, who turned into a good friend of mine. She told me about the horrible thing that had happened to her nephew. Joshua had a dirt bike and was just learning to ride it. He also had a father that was a very overbearing and macho sort of man. Joshua's dad insisted that Joshua enter a motocross race in West Virginia, although Joshua didn't feel that he was ready for anything like that. He pleaded with his dad not to make him enter, but his dad made him enter the race. During the race, Joshua crashed and burned on his bike. He landed on his head, and from that point on he was quadriplegic, unable to move anything below the neck. At the time I heard about this in September, Joshua had been languishing in a full care facility since the accident in May, nearly 5 months. He was even unable to move his bowels, and his mother would have to digitally stimulate his rectum to get the peristalsis to move the matter down. It was bad. I told Chrissy about the one ceremony that Joe and I had done for Lorena, and asked her if she wanted to try one for Joshua. She immediately said yes, although she never told anyone else, even Joshua or his parents, that we did this ceremony. They are uber-Christian and would consider something like this devilish, most likely. I told her to come over to our house on a particular day, and bring a picture of Joshua. There are two components to this. One is the physical, where we had to physically bring the electrical energy or qi down his spine and into the limbs. The other component was the dynamic of resentment that Joshua must certainly have felt for his father after his dad making him enter this race and have this happen as a result. There was also the dynamic to take into consideration how very guilty his dad must have felt about all this too. Certainly that must figure into all of it as well. We did this one in the gazebo out back, a perfect setting for ceremonies. When Chrissy came over and brought the picture, I taped the picture to the gazebo so we could look at it during the ceremony. I brought out a floor lamp from inside the house and plugged it in, which symbolized Joshua's body. The lamp had a large bulb at the top, which had its own switch, and symbolized his working brain. That light would be on throughout the duration of the ceremony. The lower aspect of the light, the arms, symbolized Joshua's arms and legs, and they would remain off until such time that Chrissy switched them on. We used Chrissy as the healer here, because I figured that she is the one with love in her heart for Joshua, and that would only magnify any healing that was going to take place, if any. First, before the ceremony, I sat down with Chrissy in the gazebo and explained how this would work; that Time and Space were an illusion and that in reality Joshua was right there with us, although miles away. That we would go back in time and turn on the electricity to his limbs. That she was to stare at the picture of Joshua and when she felt the love welling in her heart for him, to turn the lower switch on. In addition to the lamp, I had placed some rice (which conducts electricity because of the silicon) in small cotton wads, one for Chrissy, Joe, and I - and after she turned on the lower lamp, we would physically rub the electricity down from the top of the lamp to the bottom, the feet. The mind of a Child. Pretending. We started the ceremony as usual, with the music and circling the gazebo, pounding our staffs on the ground and jingling the bells. I had given Chrissy a medicine bag as well, my dad's dog tags. We reversed direction, talking to 'spirit' and asking for the reversal of the dynamic. We had Chrissy step into the sacred circle, and she invited us in. As we had planned, she stared at Joshua's picture, and when she really felt the love in her heart, she turned on the lower part of the lamp. We followed up with the rice drawing the electrical energy down. I can't remember how we closed the ceremony, but we did close it in some symbolic fashion. About 5 days later I got a call from Chrissy who told me that Joshua had started to move his arms, and in fact was just beginning to be able to feed himself. I gasped at the news, one more time thinking that certainly this had to be coincidence. No way was this actually working. I began to get concerned after a few more weeks, when there was no energy getting down into Joshua's legs. I thought that maybe we needed to do a further ceremony. I had decided on one particular day to call Chrissy the next day and have her come over again for another one. This next part is what convinces me that there really is something to this. That night, before calling Chrissy the next day, I had a dream involving Lance Armstrong. I'm not a great dreamer, so to have a dream that I can recall and with this much detail is unusual. I dreamed that Lance was standing at one end of a deep swimming pool with a doctor's bag on the floor next to his feet. At the other end of the swimming pool was a young girl in a wheelchair, on a diving board. Her mission was to roll off the end of the diving board into the pool, (in her chair) and swim across the length of the pool to Lance. (I was seated off to the side of the pool in a chair, I recall, watching this scenario). She did just that - she rolled off the end of the board and was able to swim about halfway across, just using her arms. But as she approached Lance, the chair dragged her under the water. She went down to the bottom. I recall being horrified in my dream, and I was amazed that Lance didn't do anything to help her. He just stood there for a moment, then picked up his doctor's bag and walked out of the pool area. I remember saying something to the person next to me, like 'What an A-hole!', but I immediately corrected myself in my dream and said to myself, 'No! Maybe that's just what he's supposed to do!' And sure enough, the little girl bobbed up to the top of the water finally, her wheelchair left on the bottom of the pool. When I woke up, the dream was vivid, and I didn't see the significance of Lance Armstrong for a few minutes until it hit me like a pile of bricks. He was a biker, albeit a different kind of bike. Joshua was a biker. Of course the dream pertained to Joshua, although I don't know why he came across as a little girl. I realized that what the dream was telling me, was to Do Nothing. Don't do the second ceremony. Let the rest of it work itself out. Which is exactly what happened. It turns out that the balance of the healing had to do with the dynamic between Joshua and his dad. When Joshua regained movement in his arms, his father started massaging his legs with oil every day - his legs, his feet, his back. He did this fervently for about a month, and then finally, the electricity made its way down to his legs and feet! It was the very dynamic that caused this problem in the first place that needed to complete the healing of Joshua. Joshua must certainly have let go of much of his resentment toward his father, and his father no doubt was able to alleviate much of the guilt he felt about how he had made Joshua enter the race. Joshua is now back to his old self, for about a year now. With one exception. He still has a little bit of a frozen grasp in his fingers. It's difficult for him to pick things up. What this tells me is that he is still grasping onto a little resentment toward his father for all this. How could he not, particularly at such a young age? The last time I saw Chrissy, about a month ago, I told her the significance of the grasp and the non-forgiveness aspect of it, that for full healing the best thing for Joshua to do would be to start praying for his dad. Not that this would do anything for his dad, but it would soften Joshua's heart toward his dad so his hands would unfreeze. Since Chrissy hasn't told anyone at all about the healing ceremony, due to their Christian beliefs, I don't know if she's said anything to Joshua about the prayer thing. I sort of doubt that she has. Maybe Joshua will have to figure this out on his own. If that first ceremony didn't convince me that there was something to 'bringing the metaphysical into the physical by pretending like a child', this one sure did. I have a few more to mention, probably in a couple days. We're going to Pittsburgh for a few days and I may not finish this up until I get back.

the following poem and commentary from: Haleh Pourafzal. “Haféz.” IN NEITHER OCEAN Go away preacher—What’s all this commotion? It’s my heart hurting and you have no notion. My human balance God crafted from air is a point so fine it’s erased by emotion. ‘Til beloved’s lips satisfy my desire, the whole world’s advice is babble in motion. Your servant cannot travel two paths at once; the prey in your net swims in neither ocean. Though intoxication has shattered my life, the seeds of truth arise from that implosion. O heart, don’t groan from beloved’s cruelty, for now you know the sad song of devotion. Haféz, don’t weave tales, don’t entice seduction; I know all the spins and spells of your potion. In these seven verses, Haféz tells a story set in his unique worldview: a noisy preacher who has no clue, a fragile peace of mind blown away by emotion, obsession with the beloved at the expense of blocking out common sense, the inability to choose between the paths leading to the sacred and profane worlds, a new truth emerging from a shattered dream, a lesson learned from direct experience, and, finally, the biluminous teasing of the poet himself for all his “spins and spells” of levels and meanings. The shattered nature of life from the implosion of intoxication is an oft-repeated theme. This shattering is the disintegration that occurs when we embody the brightness of the divine. Because it is overwhelming compared with our limited experiences, the shattering in turn magnifies the desire for more sustained direct experiences of divine unity. That desire becomes the mystic’s lifelong quest.

I can try to simplify. But, in order to answer this, we need to explore the states jagrat chitta or the consciousness present during the waking state and the components of the mind that I discussed earlier. In the framework I follow, the mind is basically made up of the 4 components (intellect (buddhi), manas (sensory mind), chitta (the subconscious, the mental formations, the habit energy, the vasanas or the impressions that we have been storing all along) and finally the ego that identifies as 'I' - ahamkara). I explained these parts and which ones functions during sleep and waking states with a picture I borrowed from Integral Yoga or Aurobindo earlier. Not sure if you checked that post. The sensory mind with sense organs and sense perceptions is generally off during sleep. Some may claim intellect is always on, but it is obscured with the other states. Like in a person who is drunk, the power of the intellect is diminished or non-existent at times. In the sleep state intellect can come on at times, but generally this portion of the mind is obscured. The ahamkara or the 'I' identification is obviously present in the waking and dream states, yet our true nature is covered by tamas (ignorance) in the deep sleep state. It is the Vasana Chitta or the subconscious layer of the mind that is always active 24/7. During the sleep phase it is predominant. During the waking state, we think or feel that it is the waking conscious that is acting and making decisions, but truly it is the subconscious or chitta layer that drives things. A majority of our actions are based on our instincts, our preferences, likes and dislikes, the habit energies, mental formations and impressions we have been storing all along. This chitta is built from the start of our existence when the entire creation came upon. This influences each and every one of our actions. Some of these subconscious impressions get released during the sleep state which we experience as dreams. All of this I have explained so far is to understand the waking, dream and deep sleep states. Just because the sensory mind is present at times temporarily or parts of the sensory mind is awake in some all the times due to their special abilities (siddhis), it does not indicate Turiya in all of these cases. Like Swami Rama example I gave, he was able to listen to everything while sleeping and snoring under laboratory medical observation. It does not automatically indicate Turiya or Turiyatita in my view. As far as your example of the woman, I cannot honestly make a determination if she is in Turiya or not. It would be wrong and judgemental if I do so. I think each person has to make a honest determination for themselves when they get there. But, it is possible to easily confuse other experiences of mind with the much higher attainments such as Turiya and Turiyatita that are beyond local and universal mind. That is the entire point of this thread. To bring awareness, let each person question and decide for themselves about the states. Not just listen and accept because some person claiming to be awakened says so. If only certain senses are present during the sleep state, that does not automatically indicate the state of Turiya. Those who have reached Turiya and Turiyatita states have reached the highest state of realizations. Generally they radiate such realization and if we are close to them, we may be able to observe and feel. Such people always act with compassion and their activities are geared towards helping others and relieving the suffering of all sentient beings. There is one clear distinction of the jagrat avastha or the waking state that I have mentioned already. It is the vividness or objectivity of the worldly experience due to the result of the fully functional sensory mind with the 5 sense perceptions and the 5 sense organs. This state of the waking experience does not carry into the sleep states, whether it is dream or deep sleep. Each person can decide for themselves from their own experience. We can only honestly question and decide based on our experiences. We all know for that the vividness and objectivity of the worldly experience present in the waking state is not present in sleep states. Except in lucid dreaming, even then the actual sense organs of the sensory mind are absent. And it is not necessary to carry such waking consciousness into sleep for the higher realizations. Voidisyinyang explained such states as temporary Nirvikalpa Samadhi states. I tend to agree with him. It is not my intention to discount anyone's experience. Some people waste tremendous amounts of time in trying to get lucid dreaming experiences, or trying to bring conscious awareness into the sleep. If you read/check some other places online, you might see people taking supplements, drugs or going to any lengths to get such experiences, assuming it is some high achievement. If a person visits sites like Amazon or retail stores, there are products sold claiming they induce certain sleep experiences or lucid dreaming or even more. My intention is to bring some awareness into this whole picture. Take claims of achievements and experiences in sleep with a pinch of salt. The initial link I posted stated some of these methods that induce lucid dreaming can cause harm and affect the normal sleep that we all need as humans. In my view simple mindfulness practice during the waking state, automatically takes over awareness to all other states. Getting a good night's sleep without trying to achieve something during the sleep also is the best in my opinion. Eventually everyone progresses and moves on to higher states. I have accepted there is some value to lucid dreaming and it can make a person understand that everything is just a projection of the mind. Such value from this experience is limited in my views. Some others do not agree and I am okay with that. Why chase some experiences or take the words or claims of some to believe it is possible to maintain the consciousness such the waking state in other states like dream and deep sleep. Even talk about Turiya, Turiyatita, etc are all of limited value compared to being present and reside just in the here and now.

In the book, "The Message of Our Time" (written by Pir Vilayat Khan about the life of his father, the Sufi Mystic, Hazrat Inayat Khan), there is an entire chapter on "Die Before Death". Since what is written there has already been described in sufficient detail both in my posts and in those of others here relevant to conscious sleep, it should suffice to quote this one passage from the book. (Incidentally, I studied under Pir Vilayat Khan for two years and was able to discuss such subjects with him personally.) "If one is able to retain the continuity of consciousness over the border from the physical world to the dream and vice versa, one will practice dying before death. This is taught by the Sufis as a preparation for death rather like the Bardo Thodol (the Tibetan Book of the Dead) and the Egyptian Book of the Dead and other similar works. In fact, this is precisely what meditation is." It is good to see Jeff write that "it is possible to maintain awareness during sleep". Hopefully, OP and the cadre who follow him and who "love" everything he writes here will similarly conclude that "the Myth of Conscious Awareness in Sleep" is most assuredly NOT a myth at all but is in fact a very common practice among those who truly seek to know themselves. It baffles me that one who does not fully understand the three basic states of man (deep sleep, dream, waking) through direct observation and experience can even venture to claim knowledge of that which lies beyond other than to quote others. While second-hand information is most definitely useful as it spurs one on to investigate the Truth, it is clearly no substitute for actually validating the information and thus knowing for one's self through direct experience. It seems best at this point to proceed deeper beyond the basics and into the practice itself with those here who apparently do understand the process and the practice. "Conscious sleep" is obviously a preliminary practice that facilitates knowing one's self through the emergence of both conscious and unconscious tendencies during the dream formation process so that those conditioned tendencies/urges can be weeded out and one can become firmly established in that which lies beyond thoughts and images. Any comments on this subject would be most welcome. Continuing with "The Message of Our Time" since I'm on that subject now, legitimate questions regarding the process of validation are raised as one would expect. "But what proof do I have that the phantasmagoria of dreams is as real as physical matter? Dreams are elusive and evanescent like cloud formations, whereas the house is still there when I wake up in the morning. Actually, you can return to that dream house night after night. No doubt the most convincing answer is to be found in astral travel, because one can check whether the astral traveler saw the furniture in the place you changed it to in order to test him (although one could account for that by telepathy). But the astral traveler has a very definite experience of displacing himself in space, including sometimes a bird's eye view of the landscape." Although I have had sporadic verifiable experiences in "remote viewing" (a term that is widely used in scientific circles and one which I personally prefer to astral travel), I fully acknowledge that I cannot do it consciously at will. I readily concede that the mental aspects of the Cosmic Mind have commanded more of my attention than the physical. It should come as no surprise to many here that I attend a meditation group with senior members of the Edgar Cayce organization in order to glean whatever I can through unpublished documents regarding Cayce's experiences with the Akashic Records (the Book of Life, or whatever other terms one wishes to associate with the Cosmic Mind). Cayce, as everyone probably knows, is one of the most documented psychics of our time despite some of his predictions of the future being somewhat off. (One learns not to predict the dynamically unfolding "future", as my spiritual mentor advised me many years ago.) I've noticed that, once one perfects the practice of conscious sleep to at least some degree, the mind becomes firmly established in complete and utter silence for longer and longer periods of time. One can feel one's self soaring above the self-limiting little separatist gestalt commonly called the ego and into the metaphorical sky of consciousness. At first, one tries to navigate and explore. However, eventually, one realizes that one should just abide in that stillness and peace with no expectations for "results" until what is important is spontaneously revealed. In a future post, I may give a verifiable example of my first "remote mental activity" experience which stirred a skeptical me into taking action that ultimately saved a young man's life. It is my understanding now that whatever is important to be revealed --- whether it requires action or not --- will be revealed in the proper moment. Can I do this consciously? No. Does it happen? Yes. When it happens and action is required, the validity of the "remote mental activity" (for lack of better words) becomes evident. It is my understanding that this faculty is inherent in all who have a pure heart in that particular moment. Conscious sleep is therefore the gateway to greater possibilities that can be validated. This is in complete accordance with the "Thy Will Be Done" Principle from the Christian Lord's Prayer, as one connects with the "higher power" and acts unerringly in the best interests of the Totality with no ulterior motives and no expectation of a return. (Incidentally, as a side note to the Kashmir Shaivism adherents here, it would appear that this is actually very consistent with at least one aspect of that sect. "The Shaiva Siddhanta goal of becoming an ontologically distinct Shiva (through Shiva's grace) was replaced by recognizing oneself as Shiva who, in Kashmir Shaivism's monism, is the entirety of the universe ." In the manner described, one is thus inspired to act in the best interests of the greater Self which, in Kashmir Shaivism's monism, is indeed the entirety of the universe whether we call it Shiva or otherwise.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashmir_Shaivism Any comments on this subject would be most welcome. P.S. I just ordered and received another book, "Meditation and the Bible" by Kabbalistic Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan. I have read two of his books and his depth is incredible. He points out that there are only a limited number of ways to approach the mind in meditation, and that all traditions utilize virtually the same gamut of methodologies albeit with different symbologies. I've also read the book "Kabbalah" written by his disciple, Perle Epstein, who is a great-great----great descendant of the legendary Baal Shem Tov. In that book, the writings and sayings of great Kabbalists are presented with obvious parallels to the eastern traditions that we discuss on this site. (As I've said many times in the past, the major traditions at their deepest levels all seem to point in the same direction.) Rabbi Kaplan's book is presented as a "radical interpretation of the Bible" which focuses to a large extent on previously unpublished writings related to the elevated states of consciousness exhibited by the prophets. (Jeremias is actually my favorite in this respect as his well-documented prophecies were clearly fulfilled at the time of the Destruction of the First Temple and the subsequent Babylonian Captivity). Rabbi Kaplan's son still lives in Brooklyn and, after reading this latest book, I may try to get an audience with him to learn more about what he knows that was left unsaid.

I don't ever recall reading Turiya to be a "permanent shift." My understanding is Turiya is from its own perspective - so it already exists inherently. It's just that we are not "aware" of it. Again this is the paradox of Turiya. It can be logically inferred through Vichara - and it is the source of light in the dream and waking state but it's also the source of the bliss in the deep dreamless state. So to go into Turiya also means to LOOSE self-consciousness just as in deep dreamless sleep - only in Turiya you are like in a dream state where the light as frequency is too INTENSE and so it blinds your dream ego. So being awake is a type of dreaming - physical 4D reality is a type of dream with the mind in a diffuse reflection of Turiya. Dreaming is also a type of "diffuse" light that is not as intense. then the more a person meditates - this relies on biophoton laser coherent light. So you "turn" the light around - which means you resonate a self-coherent frequency of light as a laser. Think of an LED light - these lights blind the eyes because the LED light is based on one frequency of light instead of a diffuse spectrum like incandescent light. So we can not "trap" light because science assumes an external parameter that measures the light. But in meditation there is no external parameter - instead of mind is light directly and the light is turned around. So for example we then literally store this light in our bodies as shen energy or biophoton energy - and science has measured how qigong healers will release biophoton energy. Then AFTER a qigong healing occurs, the healer has to recover with their internal biophoton light no longer being as coherent. This is now proven by science. Beverly Rubik has the latest publication on this - but a scientist in India has done some of the best research on these biophoton dynamics from meditation and healing. So with the eyes closed, when we visualize light - it's proven that the biophotons internally increase but also the "source" of these biophotons is from the Emptiness directly - the quantum vacuum or anti-matter (virtual photons). Qigong master Yan Xin calls this the "virtual information field" that does the healing. So if you take any object - it will have a quantum frequency. For example it's proven now the best way to explain our sense of smell is based on quantum frequency. So a molecule can have a different shape as a Phase - form - but the same frequency - it can be a LEFT handed molecule or Right handed chiral shape. This will change the smell! Like with orange smell and lemon smell. Or you can have two drastically different molecules but they have the same quantum frequency - so they smell the same. So what this quantum phase refers to - the chirality - is actually the "super momentum" - the phase is when the Light is entangled. This is proven in science now - it's called Weak Measurements. So it proves that there is this super momentum phase and that is what "guides" the electrons that go through the double slit experiment. That is the Ether now proven in science. So with these "weak" measurements - there is NO time elapsing. You "freeze" the light by having two photons are are entangled. So by having a FORM that you are visualizing externally - you can "freeze" the future and the past of that form as the light experiences it. But each photon while entangled do not experience time in themselves. So that is the "phase" of the light - it is the 5th dimension that "guides" the photons or electrons. So it is the position as phase but not of the Particle as a moving photon - but instead of the SPIN of the photon as it is entangled non-locally with its physical environment. So if we can "freeze" our minds at the speed of light - there is still this SUPER-luminal "spin" or super-momentum as it is call. Normally in classical physics we think of momentum as dependent on the movement of a particle but Louis de Broglie proved that in quantum physics the momentum is actually a STANDING WAVE based on the frequency as the momentum (at the speed of light). OK so that can occur for external objects - but as Ramana Maharshi emphasized - what if you are just turning the light around back to itself? Then you just have this zero/ infinite "rest frame" that does not exist in a material sense - it's just the 5th dimension directly as this Super-Momentum (or phase or spin). So in science this is called the "measurement problem" because science has to make an external measurement at the speed of light assuming some physical external parameter. But if we have no external parameter - then instead there is no "Bloch Universe" that is physical spacetime (no material medium) - instead there is just an infinite non-physical information-energy that is eternal LISTENING or logical inference, listening "to itself" and thereby generating light (and matter)....

Just because! Well this happened to me several times as a teenager: I can remember being in a lucid dream and being in the past but as well as being this person I was also watching from outside of them! So for clarity I was a person looking out of a window thinking and observing, in a dream, and at the same time was watching, in the dream, the person looking out of the window, I was experiencing two (perhaps three) states of consciousness, the person looking out of the window who was unaware of anything but his own mind then a disembodied consciousness watching from above who had the same thoughts as the person looking out of the window but at the same time I knew it was a dream so maybe that's a third state of consciousness! This only happened twice I think and was set in Victorian times, very strange. On another occasion when I was a bit screwed up I saw myself when awake several times as a separate entity. Yeah that was very disconcerting to say the least and was after I had been playing with lucid dreaming for a few months, successfully I may add. I generally warn people away from lucid dreaming as I believe it can make some people schizophrenic. Try lucid dreaming if you must but don't dwell on it. Important to note here that I think on the higher planes the conceptual element of mind doesn't come into play that is images as we know them are simply incompatible with out waking consciousness. This explains the strange imagery we often have in dreams as the lower minds try to dress these thoughts in a way we can comprehend. We are told though that we can directly experience these higher/different states of consciousness but obviously there's no easy way to convey the experience. And of course the experience of nirvana/bliss is beyond the mind as we are told it's a state of 'being which is non being'. Hopefully I haven't muddied the waters.

I have wondered who the entity is that feels all these things, and for now I perceive the entity who is dreaming, feeling, and resolving these things is my awareness/consciousness slowly ascending through the chakras to join with my Higher Self. I analyse the dream itself, but then deliberately stop any intellectual process and feel the feeling. But it's only to release what might be blocked. Say with fear, if I am caught in that level of being, and unpack the reason for fear in my life through dream analysis, and feel and release the fear that was driving me, then I consider that to be cleared, I can feel fear when appropriate, but I don't live fearfully all the time. I was shown my personal hijackers in a dream, fear, shame, negativity, desire, anger, that took control of me, and this dream showed me removing them one by one. I just believed the dream, and went about removing them over time, bit by bit. I once had a dream which explained how dreams work: There was a big screen in a movie theatre, and on the screen was thousands of unrelated random looking pixels. One of these pixels would be taken from the screen, and played in a projector on the wall beside me, distorting the video scene into caricature because it was being played in such close up. After being played the pixel went back into the big screen and resolved itself into a sensible piece of the puzzle, and it was clear to me in the dream that when enough pixels were resolved I would be able to see the ‘big picture’. This dream explained satisfactorily to me why it was important to ‘resolve’ my dreams, and also why dreams themselves looked so mad sometimes, like caricatures. I read this the other day, the author Leon Rhodes is describing the life review of Near death experiencers after going through a black tunnel: “many experiencers are treated to a remarkable show called “The Life Review.” It has been described in full color, three-dimensional, and shown as if on a wide screen. The review is extremely detailed and does not miss a thing. Some describe what looks like a slow-motion review, yet somehow their entire conscious lives are compressed into an astonishing re-enactment of everything they have ever done. Such a review would take a long time in an earthly theatre bound by time and space; yet within the few minutes of a near death experience, the leading character is shown not only all the events of his or her former life, but can also experience the emotions that were involved.” It made me wonder if dreams are a way to access ‘the life review’ while alive, bound by time and space. From Leon again: “Many experiencers report this fascinating feature of being able to see the big picture. They were shown a vast cosmic view of creation and saw a logic, an order to their lives that made sense. One experiencer said, “When I saw the complete picture, I found myself saying, ‘But of course, of course!’” She finally understood how the many pieces of her life fit together.” I very much relate to this idea of seeing the big picture.

I see you as a young guy. Smart enough to disguise there depression and angst as 'Matrix is real' philosophy. Which has been done for ages, though before sci fy it was Mara. Maybe I post too much but part of that is to lead an examined life. How to make it better, exploring ideas. Figuring out what works.. leaving bread crumbs for myself. You dismiss my posts angrily without answering the question 'How do you think you get out of hell?' Its an important question that you shouldn't ignore. As a kid, maybe between 5 to 7 there was a period where I considered I was the only one in existence and the powers that be were watching my moves. Some variation of that is probably not too uncommon. Maybe even more so with the generation after the Matrix. As an adult how I've melded that into my life is one section of my blog. Life as Dream section. Which explored the Dream author Moss's theme of taking dreams more seriously, and life less seriously or rather see life from a dream perspective, ie looking at life more symbolically. Seeking out synchronicities. Getting a little more shamanic with life, looking for the messages the universe is giving you. Not the extreme of 'its all illusion' but looking closely and thinking how external things can be sending you messages. Its a practice not only shamanic but probably religious people do more.. the looking for signs. I'm not to active with that concept anymore but its a good practice. Might create a good midpoint between Matrix thinking and reality.

Astral Dynamics by Robert bruce The Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche Dreamscape: Voyage in an Alternate Reality by Bruce A. Vance (start a dream journal) Trance-Portation by Diana Paxson Spirit Speak by ivo Dominquez

well then...hehehe.... this is from “feeling the shoulder of the lion,” rumi, trans barks… THE GAZELLE A hunter captures a gazelle and puts it in the stable with the cows and the donkeys. The gazelle runs about wild with fear and confusion. Every night the man pours out chopped-up straw for the barn animals. They love it, but the gazelle shies quickly from side to side in the big stall, trying to get away from the smokey dust of the straw and the animals milling to eat it. Whoever has been left for a time with those who are different will know how forsaken this gazelle feels. Solomon loved the company of the hoopoe. “Unless she has a valid excuse to be absent, I will punish her for not being here with the worst punishment there is.” And what might that be? What the gazelle is going through: to be confined somewhere apart from your own kind. The soul is that way in the body, a royal falcon put in with crows. It sits here and endures what it must, like a great saint, like an Abu Baker, in the city of Sabzawar. Once the great king Khwarizm besieged Sabzawar,. They gave up easily. “Whatever you require in tribute we will give.” “Bring me a holy person, someone who lives united with God, or I will harvest your inhabitants like corn.” They brought sacks of gold. They knew that no one is Sabzawar lived in that state. “Do you think I am still a child that I should be fascinated with coins?” For three days and nights they called through the town looking for an Abu Baker. Finally, they saw a traveler lying in a ruined corner of a wall, sick and exhausted. Immediately, the recognized a True Person. “Get up! The king wants to see you. You can save our lives!” “I’m not suppose to be here. If I could walk, I would already have arrived in the city where my friends are.” They lifted him above their heads on a board like corpses are carried on and bore him to the king. Sabzawar is this world, where a True Person wastes away, apparently worthless, yet all the king wants from Sabzawar is such a one. Nothing else would do. Muhammed says, “God does not look at outward forms, but at the love within your love.” The Qalb, the inner heart, that space in which seven hundred universes are just a lost speck, we’re looking for that in the small, seedy town of Sabzawar! And sometimes, we find it. One who has that love is like a six-sided mirror through which God can look at us, here. The gifts come through such a one. His palm opens without conditions. That union cannot be said. I leave this subject with you. Wealthy people bring money. God says, “Bring devotion to one whose loving mixes with mine.” That love is what God wants. That love is a mother and father to us and is the origin of every living creature. You might say, “Lord, I have brought this heart-love.” “Qutu, an ordinary town in Turfan is full of this kind of love. Instead, bring the Qalb of the Qutb, the soul of the soul of Adam.” God waits for that. One may wander days in Sabzawar and not see such a being. The noblest native in Sabzawar might come, and God would say, “Why do you offer this rotting corpse? Bring the inner love of one who can save Sabzawar.” Just the sight of them together, a native of Sabzawar and a True Human Being, who might be traveling through, is painful. Yet sometimes they talk. A townsperson may behave kindly toward a Qalb-person, but it’s almost always hypocrisy. He nods and says yes. He acts sincere, but he’s really tricky, and looking for an advantage. If a saint accepts his hypocrisy, he’s saved, and that often happens. The holy ones love to buy damaged goods, and turn lying into truth. If someone’s trickery seems charming to you, remember he’s only your saint, not a real one. Someone who is like you will often sound prophetic. Renounce sensuality so you can sharpen your spiritual sense. Your olfactory nerve has been deadened. You cannot catch the fragrance of sweet musk or ambergris. It’s as though they no longer exist for you. All this time, our gazelle has been running back and forth in the stable! For many days this precious animal wriggles like a fish thrown up on dry ground. Like dung and rare incense closed side by side in a box. One donkey says sarcastically, “This guy is wild! He must be somebody special!” Another, “With all his ebb and flow, he must be making a pearl. Probably a cheap one." Another, “Why can’t he eat what we eat?” Another donkey gets indigestion and offers the gazelle his fodder with a formal invitation. “No thank you. I am unwell too.” The donkey is offended. “Don’t be so aloof. Are you afraid of what people will say if you’re seen eating with me?” The gazelle doesn’t answer, but he thinks, “Your food is for you. It revives your strength. But I have known a pasture by a creek where hyacinths and anemones and sweet basil grow. My food is there. Some destiny put me here, but I can’t forget the other. If my body gets old and sick, still my spirit can stay new.” The donkey seems to know what the gazelle is thinking. “Yes, anyone dan brag in strange country. Who’s to know?” The gazelle, “This musk gland identifies me, but no one here has a nose tuned to that scent. Donkeys like to smell donkey urine on the road, and that’s all.” Muhammed says, “True surrender is odd in this world. Even ‘Islamic’ relatives avoid a perfect saint.” He or she may look human, but there’s a lion nature inside. If you’re happy being a cow, stay away. Potiphar, the king of Egypt, in a dream once saw with his spiritual eyes seven well-nourished cows and seven lean cows that came and ate the fat cows. Lean cows are lions inside, like a True Person who can detach you completely from the dregs of your cow-nature and make you so pure and spacious that your foot touches Orion’s belt. How long will I keep caw-talking like a crow? Husam, why did you kill your rooster? “Because I began to hear the friend’s voice inside me.” A rooster loves lust, and lust again, and instant satisfaction of lust, that poisonous, cheap wine. If it weren’t necessary for procreation, Adam would have castrated himself in shame over his own lechery. Satan comes to God and says, “I need some powerful bait.” God gives him gold and silver and herds of beautiful horses. “Bravo!” says Satan, but his lip drops, and he screws up his lemon face. God throws in the other precious metals and the gemstones. “Oh thank you! And might there be anything else around here that I could use?” God gives the marbled meats, and the tasty sherbets, and the silk robes. “But I need something that will hold and keep holding like a rope woven of palm-fiber, so that your holy people can show their holy strengths by bursting something very powerful. I want an even more cunning lure.” God brings wine and a harp. Satan smiles a crooked half-smile. Those are not exactly what he had in mind. The suddenly, as though a dry path appeared through the Red Sea, Satan saw the beauty of women, and he began to dance. “More! More!” The hazy eyes, the fascination of a soft cheek, a cheekbone, a reddening lip, the glance that burns a man like a cumin seed on a hot fire-brick! A young woman’s light, coquettish half-walk, half-run springs to Satan’s eyes like a revelation of divine glory, and a lifting of the veil. Some comment on the text, We created man woman in the best physical and mental proportion, and then We reduced them to the lowest of the low. The garden beauty, to which the angels bowed down, after a time, was dragged by the hair by Gabriel and led out. Why? Why was paradise lost? Why does a date-palm lose its leaves in autumn? Why does every beautiful face grow in old age wrinkled like the back of a Libyan lizard? Why does a full head of hair get bald? Why is the tall, straight figure that divided the ranks like a spear now bent almost double? The bright-red anemone grows saffron. Lion strength weakens to nothing. The wrestler who could hold anyone down is led out with two people supporting him, their shoulders under his arms. These are all messages from the fall. What fault was committed? God answers, “The crime is that they put on borrowed robes and pretended they were theirs. I take the beautiful clothes back, so that you will learn the robe of appearance is oly a loan.” The sheaf-stack belongs to God. Human beings are gleaners. Rays from the sun. The earth-colored glass makes everything seem diverse, but that glass eventually shatters. Your lamp was lit from another lamp. All God wants is your gratitude for that. Lend, is the divine command. Make God a loan from your existence, and see what fortunes accumulate! Diminish a little, for your own sake, all this eating and drinking, and watch a new basin fill in front of you. Then God may say, “Death, give back what you took.” But you’ll turn away. You won’t want those things. Sufis throw away their wanting and their objects. They abandon pieces of clothing in the dance, and those articles are never returned. They are given to the singer, or divided among the dancers. They arise from a briny, annihilating ocean into pure clarity. They confront the world openly with its arrogance and its hypocrisy. They are warriors for non-existence. The planter works with the most joy whose barn is completely empty, the planter who works for that which has not appeared. Second by second I know you’re expecting some sure understanding, some spiritual perception, some peace, but I am not allowed to say more about this mystery, or else I would create a Baghdad in the wilds of the Georgia mountains, and there would be no more doubting!

In my experience, living for extended periods of time in an environment where nature in still strong is hugely beneficial for physical, emotional and spiritual health. For those of us fortunate to live in countries where wilderness still exists I highly recommend it. Connection with nature is at the heart of Daoism. Here’s a lucid account of an awakening experience brought about simply by living in the wilderness from someone who had no spiritual intent and no knowledge of energy cultivation praxis.... “One good sunny day we decided to walk to a big waterfall a long way up the valley. We followed a trail through the forest and came across a huge landslide. We sat down and lit a fire with the abundance of firewood. While Peter was toasting his bread on a stick, I told him that I had felt a huge build-up of energy in the last few days. So much so, I said, that I felt like jumping up and down like a Masai warrior from Kenya. Peter laughed and gestured to show that I should certainly take no notice of him and feel free to jump about if I felt like it. “We continued our way up the valley. Slowly we walked out of the forest and into a giant basin, where the steep mountains were virtually cliffs, and little streams and waterfalls cascaded down the rock walls. Eventually we came to a point where a river had carved a smooth channel through the massive rock. The power and beauty was astounding. Peter climbed the rocks, while I stood still. “I was looking at the turquoise colours in the silky water. I was not doing anything special, but suddenly it felt as if a lightning bolt entered my head, as if the right part of my brain suddenly opened, and with it came an extraordinary clarity. I sat down in wonder, and saw that the whole of reality was in fact moving like a kaleidoscope. I saw that everything, including my own mind, was constantly transforming; I was not really fixed in one place. I saw that this changing reality was an eternal movement in a timeless world. “Eventually I climbed up to where Peter sat. He looked at me and understood at once that something had happened, for he had experienced similar things himself in the past. We sat down, and we were so in sync that with only a few words he intuitively understood what I was trying to say. While looking at the world, my mind seemed so clear. It was as if I had been driving a car with the handbrake on and suddenly it had been released. “We spoke about humanity, and good and evil. We discussed how children are taught right from wrong, and how these words affect our way of seeing the world. While talking to Peter, I saw myself thinking according to these culturally conditioned values. I could see how I interpreted, judged and analysed my own thoughts, thereby restricting my own mind. I realised that these social rules were made in the past, and had nothing to do with the ever-changing present. “We climbed to the roaring waterfall round the corner. A white river was thundering down to earth, and an eternal, drifting spray covered the fall like a jacket. The wind shaped the mist into different patterns. The spectacular 100-metre cascade had carved a shaft through the solid cliff, before it rushed over smooth slides down the mountain. The power of the waterfall engulfed me. I felt part of its pulsating movements, which glided through the hard rocks to find the lowest levels of the land and reach the sea. “After that remarkable day I didn’t suddenly walk around with a smile all the time. I didn’t feel an eternal bliss. Quite the contrary, in fact: it felt as if someone had removed my rose-tinted glasses. The world had become crystal clear, and I was forced to look at everything—the good, the bad, the beautiful and the ugly—in a direct and unconditioned way. It was immensely sobering, but also profoundly connecting. “In the following weeks, we went for long walks. We came across flowers that I had seen a hundred times, but it felt as if I saw them for the first time. I spotted a big plant with yellow flowers and when I touched its soft green leaves I felt, intuitively, that these could have a medicinal property for the lungs. When I saw another plant, which Peter recognised as ragwort, I felt that it should not be eaten, but could perhaps have a use for skin treatments. We walked from plant to plant, and each one told us something of interest. I realised that in the past people would have had a sense for the medicinal values of plants, and that this insight was now rendered obsolete by modern science and technology. “Not only was I fascinated by the world of plants; birds and insects also captivated me. When we saw a giant dragonfly on the ground, I lay down next to it. It looked like an alien, with its long black-and-yellow tail. Its enormous eyes on its swivelling head looked at me, and I wondered what it saw. When we returned to the forest, I was in awe of the big, tall plants that we call trees. They suddenly felt like friendly giants. I sat on the roots of an old tree and felt my own heartbeat resonating with its pulse. I was connected. The whole world was magical, and everything in it had such a beautiful design. My mind was empty; the world was complete, full. There was nothing to miss or desire. “The nights were equally as intriguing as the days. When I dreamed, I knew I was in a dream and I could look around without waking up. It was interesting to observe how real the dream world seemed. I touched people’s faces to test if I could feel their skin. I could jump high or fly at will. I listened to orchestras and was at the same time astounded that my brain could make up and play all the instruments. If I didn’t like the course of my dream, I was able to change it. “This state of mind—this extraordinary sensitivity and connectedness—only lasted for a few weeks. After a month, I felt mostly ‘normal’ again, although some aspects of my understanding had changed forever. My dreams, especially, are still very enjoyable.” (From Miriam Lancewood’s book, Woman in the Wilderness: A story of survival, love & self-discovery in New Zealand......Miriam is a Dutch woman living in the heart of the mountains with her New Zealand husband. She lives simply in a tent or hut, and survives by hunting wild animals and foraging edible plants, relying on only minimal supplies. For the last six years she has lived this way, through all seasons, often cold, hungry and isolated in the bush. She loves her life and feels free, connected to the land, and happy.)

@terry Maybe, you should consider to open a specific thread, for instance, World as a Dream in Sufism and Daoism. And for each subject you have something interesting you could open a thread.

I would agree that the subconscious and the conscious layers make up the mind. I will try to explain my view on this from my personal experience. But I am going to borrow some helpful definitions from Kashmir Shaivism and from Vedanta (Hindu Upanishads), where some of these concepts are defined and explained already. What we call as Mind is made up of 4 components. 1) The Sensory Mind (Manas) - It is composed of the sense perceptions (tanmatras - form/vision, sound, smell, taste and touch) and brings about the sensation of world through 5 sense organs and with the 5 gross elements. 2) Intellect (Buddhi) - that which discerns. 3) The ego (ahamkara) - the arising sense of individuality or 'I' and 4) Chitta - I mentioned it is similar to subconscious in an earlier post. But Chitta is much more than that. It consists of all our latent impressions (vasanas), habit energies and mental formations. The Chitta is the part of the mind that is active all the time -- during the sleep and waking state. I borrowed the following diagram from the site Integral Yoga of Sri Aurobindo to explain. The waking state is called 'Jagrat' or the conscious awareness state, the dream state is called 'swapna' and the deep sleep is called 'sushupti'. The subconscious layer is still very much active in the waking state (also). The subconscious layer dictates many of our actions in the waking state. For instance, our likes and dislikes, what each person considers pleasant or unpleasant (feeling of aversion) comes from this layer during the waking state. Majority of most people's actions during the waking state are the result of the subconscious mind, basically auto-pilot actions driven or dictated by the underlying habit-energy or impressions collected from the past (vasanas). As shows in the following picture, the conscious awareness or the jagrat chitta is active during the waking state. During the sleep phase it is the Vasana chitta or the subconscious layer that is active and functions. This is the same for everyone. It is not possible to have the jagrat chitta or conscious awareness during the sleep phase. There is an exception, which is the lucid dreaming. During lucid dreaming we get something like the jagrad chitta or conscious awareness during the dream phase of the sleep, the intellect seems to be active during the lucid dreaming, but the sensory mind is still absent. Lucid dreaming is of limited value as I explained earlier in this thread, this is in my experience and also explained by various other sources. The sensory mind layer (manas) is absent during the sleep. The buddhi or the intellect layer is also predominantly off during the regular sleep but it can come on. I have given a very brief explanation of the parts and the working of the mind as explained in KS. Anyone interested can search and refer to other resources available online or also to books or other traditional texts. For instance, the Integral Yoga of Aurobindo, some texts from Kashmir Shaivism & Vedanta explain the inner workings of the 4 layers of the mind in detail. I came across an article by Satguru from Isha where he explains the components of mind in brief detail and how chitta is the only layer that is active 24/7 during the waking state and sleep. As per dream yoga, I think it has benefits but they are limited in my opinion. It may help in cultivating certain good sleeping habits and may be of some limited value in helping to understand that everything arises from the mind. The subconscious impressions do get untangled and released to certain extent even during regular sleep. This untangling and the release of the latent impressions is what is perceived by the mind as dreams during the sleep. I would like to respectfully disagree once again. As I explained earlier, it is my view and experience one becomes conscious only in lucid dreams. Practicing mindfulness or trying to reside in the present movement during the waking state consistently eventually carries over into the sleep states also. From my experience, a separate practice to cultivate awareness especially in deep sleep or during dream phase is not needed or essential. As the article that I linked in the OP states, it is better to just let go, relax and sleep instead of trying to bring awareness, or pictures of characters into dreams, etc.

yea, I find dream work is extremely effective and necessary for my path... has been that way all this lifetime for me. That and sometimes it's just purely joyful and playful and fun, to be awake in the dreamscapes.. it's invigorating. My earliest memory is of a lucid dream and all through my life I regularly experience extremely vivid dreams, both lucid and passive. I rarely go more than a few nights without vivid dream experiences that I recall in minute detail. I have not had the experience of vivid dreams being problematic or causing a lack of rest, so I don't agree with Marble on this being problematic, but I don't consider him wrong, we are just different. I think the pivot is to be sensitive to how you are affected. Your bolded sentence really affected me and has spurred me to action... it's like the fifth or sixth almost verbatim reference of The Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche which is one of my most cherished books on dream work. I've been feeling a shift approaching in my practice but wasn't able to pinpoint where... now it's become clear. Time for some focused dream work.

The awareness that is witnessing a dream and the dream universe is also the awareness that is experiencing the waking universe. That same awareness is unbroken and continues even in deep sleep. There is no cessation of consciousness in deep sleep, only an absence of objects. The only difference between deep sleep and the awareness of an awakened one is that in "unawake" individual, during the deep sleep, awareness is blanketed in tamas (or as they call it nescience, or blankness of ignorance). For the spiritual awakened, there is no tāmasic covering, so the awareness without objects is known to be awareness without objects in deep sleep. While being able to be lucid in a dream state is not a sign of awakening, for the awakened, there is the recognition that waking, dream and deep sleep are states that rise and fall (in it, to it). Also, Turiya is not really the "fourth state", it is unbroken and unwavering awareness in which the three states of waking, dreaming and deep sleep rise and fall.

wakes me from slumber the dream of someone I miss precious few moments

Well, 'energy vortex is kinda general , what type sort to you mean ? I have experience with several 'phenomena' that could be called such . I suppose the first classifications are either intersections or gateways ( they can be both ) and 'good or bad' , like in dowsing its usually intersections of lines or streams of energy. A good one can give amplification of other energies in it's field . 'Down here' we dont call them ley lines ( well, some nongs do ! ) , they are 'dreaming lines' , some follow song lines . Got one right through the cabin , ; it starts in a birth pool down at the river , up the very steep side, through my place , out across the paddock, through 'Snake Gully' at 'Fairy Glenn Creek , up 'Pyramid Hill' , and 'nodes' near the 'lightening spot ' * , up to the steep back ridge and 'ends' (actually 'nodes out ' ) as the ridge drops down its very steep south side . Its taken 15 years of experience there and absorbing / learning plus elucidation from Aboriginal Elders (including my teacher) to map that out . So, the lightening spot is 'sore spot' , 'charge in' fire , lightening , watch out for that . Birth hole / pool is charge in , but water earth. Then it goes to my place / node, charge out - water earth . the 'end is node out , earth air . So, if you 'dream' safely past the lightening , to end .... you can come back in somewhere else , far across country - one step . Before I knew what the hell was going on there , I was both flummoxed and amazed at the vivid dreams I was having, I would be walking up the back ridge to the top, step and .... the in the dream I would be some where else , trying to figure out how the helI got there ( as its not like an ordinary dream, where surreal things happen and scene can chop and change ) . There is a lot more to be said about that, and the lightening spot , and the associated regolith and structure , quartz seams , etc . Not sure if this is what you are chasing ? I also have done magical ritual ceremony using energy vortex . Done some dowsing and remedial geomantic work ( at a 'stone age farming' workshop I went to ) , thats about lines and intersections . I also helped my mate in the film industry understand why his extremely high tech stabilising gear.was going haywire in some outback locations He uses these maps now ; ; One of Washington might me interesting ? Anyway, depends what you mean and what your bag is ? As long as it isn't ....

What would it be like if this forum were to serve as a nidus to help people to feel the spark that causes them to turn the light inside and find their source? What would it be like if that gradually spread, little by little, across the world; liberating tens then hundreds then thousands? Creating a vast revolution or mutation as some have called it, of the mind leading to real and meaningful change! I doubt that I'm the first to have this thought (or even post it) but... How cool would that be?