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mr beancurdturle sir, dreams are merely the minds way of putting the unresolved events of the day into some kind of order (bear in mind, that the mind will accept a nuerotic order as well as a balanced order) awakening is not a dream, it is merely the endings of all dreams, there are no more dreams because there is only order. my humble words are yours to use or abuse as you wish peace and happy pancakes, paul

Ok - so last night I went to sleep with the intention of carrying on the meteorite dream - I havent done any kind of dream interpretation before so I wonder what it all means: So the meteorite took me for a little trip - I say little... it was anything but - the only way I can describe it is I went down. This overwelming feeling of going downwards was coupled with the deepest, darkest darkness I've experienced - I'm pretty sure I fell into a very deep sleep after that. Also a funny thing happened during the night - our building was struck by lightning - we have a lot of scaffolding covering it at the moment, so that's probably why, but I didn't hear anything - the surge destroyed my girlfriend's transformer for her laptop, killed my tv reciever, and took out the intercom system for the whole building. It felt really uncomfortable at home today. I live in a church so I'm considering it an act of god

Thanks for the excellent guidance. When I started (I call it Yi-Quan, I-Chuan standing exercises) hard hard hard. Had a dream signifying how important it was to practice. Persistence is crucial. The results very concrete. The connection to heaven and earth. The solid movement of energy. It has everything to do with manifesting that same solid energy in your martial arts, in your energy healing.

I noticed the dramatic shiift in my dream life, when I began practising. Prior to that I had a dream diary and studied dreams and had a therapist with whom I worked on my dreams. Once I started doing qi gong. boof! no dreams. I dream a handful of times a year now, usually abut moving into a bigger space!

I had a dream that I caught a meteorite. I know very little about them, but would really like one - does anyone know anything on the subject - where to buy, how not to get conned, any esoteric uses etc? I remember reading somewhere (connected to John Chang in some way) that meteorites hold a powerfull yin energy that is only available in the vacuum of space... Also remember seeing program about nuclear fusion, and that the most efficient way of doing it is to use 'helium 3' - which is very scarce on earth but abundant on the moon (at least)... fusion is about joining particles - alchemy... helium 3 being the alchemical agent (maybe a physical manifestation of this yin energy?)

And, of course, from the tantric perspective, that's absolutely the case. According to Vajrayana, the process of falling asleep and entering the dream state exactly mirrors the process of dying. We first experience the dissolution of the elements, earth into water, water into fire etc., until space dissolves into itself and the clear light manifests. Then, instead of entering dream, we enter the turbulent visions of the bardo which we either recognize for what they are (the product of our minds natural luminosity) and are in that moment self-liberated, or don't, in which case we soon get to enjoy the sun once more. Or at least, thus have I heard 'This day is a special day, it is yours. Yesterday slipped away, it cannot be filled anymore with meaning. About tomorrow nothing is known. But this day, today, is yours, make use of it. Today you can make someone happy. Today you can help another. This day is a special day, it is yours.' (I don't know anything about this poem other than it's supposedly Indian, but it's lovely, and came to mind when I read your post Treena) Peace, ZenB

For me, the difference between awake and asleep... Kind of opposite. When I'm asleep and dreaming, it's like I'm really where everything makes sense. Sometimes I bring wisdom out, sometimes I just bring confused me back out. When I'm awake, it's like I'm sleeping in our world of taxes, bills, crime but also flowers, ice cream, sun. I know when I die I'll go into the dream world. So, for now, I enjoy the sun.

I can't answer this from a taoist perspective - indeed, I would be fascinated to hear more about a taoist approach - but the (Buddhist) tantric practice of dream yoga suggests that our dreaming is a 'reversal' of our waking state. For instance, initially at least, engaging in meditation in the dream state is a poor idea as the usual movement from form towards emptiness emphasized in most waking state meditations results in loss of consciousness (lucidity) when practiced in the dream state. Thus the initial tantric emphasis with regard to practice in the dream state concerns multiplicity - moving from emptiness towards form - so that awareness is maintained. Only later, when one has substantial experience of lucidity and presence in the dream state would one move on to meditations that we would normally practice during the day. Does that make any sense at all? I guess you could say on the above analysis that there is a 'balance' between waking and dreaming processes. And it follows that something would have to be done differently to mess with our holistic path (however karma's still an issue whether dreaming or awake). As to whether dreams are either interesting or impactful - I think that depends purely on how you regard them and what you do with them. Too tired, off to bed: to sleep, perchance to dream. Sorry if the above is bollocks. Peace & goodnight, ZenB

I've been following a Poll/Thread about "The Big Draw," desire, sexual energy & etc with interest and some amusement. I even jumped in with a couple questions, a silly comment, and a bit of topic obfuscation. In the thread there's a lot of discussion about controlling sexual energy, controlling orgasm, the meaning of desire and etc. http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showto...amp;#entry31417 My feeling about dreams is that they are very organic and closer to our natural beingness than our waking experiences. Though influenced by our waking states, dreams are not necessarily relevant to them. Of course I might be wrong about this. This morning I had a dream. A very pleasant dream. Later as I'm showering to prepare for work a thought pops into my huge, empty, cavernous head. The thought condensed into a question (questions actually) - questions that I don't have an answer for. What if you practice something like sexuality in one way in your waking life to cultivate a given end, yet in your dreams it gets done differently? Is there a dichotomy here? I'm curious to know people's thoughts about this, and the related questions: - Is the un-reined process in dreaming states a balance to the "cultivation" process in waking states? - If something gets done differently in dreams than the way it's done in waking states, does it mess with our holistic path? - Is what does on in dreams interesting, but really not greatly impactful on our whole being? I am asking largely in the context of sexuality and sexual energy. But answers in any context are appreciated because they all have relevance (at least to me at this point in time). Besides, I'm not a topic cop. I realize my vocabulary is a bit unorthodox, but I hope you get the gist of my question. Thanks for your thoughts.

Birth memories revisited... A tunnel dream, a train dream, a highway dream, darkening, raining, being unable to see -- then light at the end of it -- these are all very typical memory dreams that tell you a lot about the way you were born. The plot is symbolic, and doesn't mean much, but the feeling is real, and means you've been there done that. Everything you are remembers -- except for the neocortex, whose job it is to forget the real and come up with a symbolic representation using the context of the present, the context of adulthood, to make sense of the feeling that is not current, is very early, and was experienced before you even had a neocortex. When you sleep, the neocortex, which normally, in your waking state, thoroughly silences the lower parts of your brain (the ones that remember), gets partially silenced in its own right, and as soon as it happens, the lower parts get activated -- and that's how you get to experience the feeling memories of things that went before the neocortex was there. If you were able to silence it completely rather than partially, you would get "what is, as is," in the context of real events you experienced instead of their re-interpreted symbolic shadows.

there is in this world two authorities one of the fist one of the dollar, they both work for fear. there is in this world two realities one of the dream one of what is, they both work for emptiness.

Ok, update on my dream life: Last night I had a dream combining "John Chang" and the LOA, lol. As best as I could recollect: We were riding in my vehicle again...this time just down a regular highway. The sky became a beautiful yellow ochre color and I tried to snap a pic...but it quickly changed back to blue and started lightly raining. So, we continued driving as the rain got harder. We finally pulled over as it poured down so hard we could barely see. After a bit it stopped and we (there was also a big White dude in the back) all got out. I took some loose change out of my pocket and laid it on the roof of my car. There were a few dimes and pennies. John pointed to the dimes and told me the secret was to imagine those were $10,000 each instead and to suck energy up through my feet. Then as I was slumped up against the side of the car, he started pressing on my back starting from my tailbone all the way up to my crown. Sometimes he was using slight circular movements as if working on my chakras, other times he'd jab a finger in my side. After he was done, he asked me if I had felt anything. I said I had felt a little. And then we continued on down the road... (I wouldn't take this dream too seriously though, seemed to be more a mish-mash of regular waking thoughts.)

Isn't it obvious? To live your dreams & dream your life. As more information is revealed a certain individual sameness is encountered in which fear is obliterated and the union of subject object congeals. The obviousness of not dispelling observations and perceptions from the process seems plain. To have preconceived notions is setting yourself up for failure in one way or another. The point here is not the fantastic sounding nature or levitation, it is the ordinary experience in which the seeker finds extraordinary. Taoist mind/body practices does its job in stripping away the ego of the practitioner. Deconditioning I suppose. True learning is forgetting conditioned patterns and returning to a natural state. Nature Mind. Yi. If the sensation of floating is experiences in sitting or standing meditation, most people leave these things unsaid or confide in their mentors. I think proper practice reduces the effects of inertia on the practitioner. I can't think up one thing that would help me feel better. I can do many. The simplicity of good a movement speaks for itself, the movement is the thought, there is no thought that is not movement, thoughtless movement... motionless thought. Peace of mind Spectrum

I have told you (look up earlier in this thread) that I have always had this dream. You waste my time.

By "ego" I mean a sense of a seperate self that seemingly chooses what it wants or doesn't want. Ime not saying the thoughts that there is a seperate self that seemingly chooses what it wants or doesn't want doesn't happen. Ime saying it does happen..most people live and die there entire life believing in it..but it's all an illusion(possibly). This perspective..sounds absolutely ridicoulous to the ego identity and if your not "awake". And let's face it. No one on Taobums is even close to being enlightened so we are mostly just giving our opinion on what we "think" is true..which is mostly more illusion. But I still think it's interesting enough to get feedback on. Even if it is feedback from dream characters who think they are real

Miraculous abilities are not attainments. They are natural expressions that become freed up when the time is right. It's like this. It's as if you believe you must hold your head in order for your head not to fall off. So you keep holding it all your life and everyone else is doing so. Seeing someone with both hands away from the head is a miracle. But that ability is not an attainment. It's something everyone can do as soon as they get rid of the belief that the head will fall off if you don't hold it. Who or what wants the answer? If you were truly interested in flying, you'd have already flown in your dreams. Then you'd know what I'm talking about. If you haven't yet, it means you're not interested. And if you're not interested, asking is a waste of time. Yen Hui: If you really want to know, I suggest you learn to lucid dream and try flying when dreaming.

I agree it's probably not a simple yes or no answer. But in a way it is. When I stumble on this sense of "not knowing"...of being open to the possibility that there is no self and thus "no controller" it takes my mind to a deeper place. But perhaps people from wisdom traditions such as Buddhism or Taoism might say there is no controller or decider but there is the deeper aspect we might call "spirit" or "prajna wisdom" or "awakeness". This awake presence is "self so". This aspect of life Sailor Bob calls "intelligence energy". The whole universe runs itself. The sun doesn't will itself to shine, flowers don't will themselves to bloom, it's all natural. Only us human beings have this cognizing ability and all of our emotional states to imagine a self in control and behind the wheel steering all of this. And let's face it. People love the idea of a self that is in control and steering what is. We all(for the most part) cherish this seperate self and compare it to other selves to see how "successful" we are. We compete, work our asses off, to accomplish things and then turn around saying "look at what I have done". Could you imagine one of the really "successful" people in the world, a worldy success like Bill Gates or Oprah or Bill Clinton or whoever, saying "I really don't have anything to do with this, it's all just what arises and happened on it's own". No! We love the idea of a controller or a director. It may not be as cut and dry as saying there is no free will and no director and it's all just a big make believe show we are playing. But my guess is that is closer to the truth than the dream land of ego's in control the world is in. Happy to hear others opinions though.

I can teach you these. It's very easy. Have you ever done it in a dream? How did you do it? It's the same "in the waking", since both dreaming and waking have the same source -- mind. Warning: if your psyche is not ready to accept this kind of experience, you will be very very frightened, because if you're not ready and you fly like that, it's like going insane, where you no longer know what is real and what is not real. So it's best to leave that alone. When the right time comes, you will fly without any effort anyway, because it will be as natural as breathing and eating is right now. There is no need to force anything.

this dream, vortex, tell me, where is it now?

This is a good thread. Here are more thoughts. A calf wants to suckle. But at the same time, the cow, which is full of milk wants the calf to nurse. In fact, there is a saying to the effect, 'more than the calf wants to suckle the cow wants him to nurse'. When we manifest with intention, I believe we are basically asking the universe, god, for something. When the ego gets involved, the ego wants what it wants on it's own timescale. The ego gets worried that it might not manifest or the ego feels it needs to 'do' something to make it happen. Incidentally, I believe this is how sin and evil manifests into the world--when the ego feels the need to act. If we just let god or the universe bring it to us we would not 'sin' or cause anyone else harm. It comes when we don't expect it and it comes in forms we may not expect. I believe this is true detachment, and true egoless. When we want to control and direct our lives the way we want it (basically ego in it's ugliest) we are trapped in the dream. The greatest thing we can do is not only attract for ourselves, but attract for other people to be happy. When I take care of my neighbor and not just myself, then we are really getting somewhere.. T

Wow..Yoda is so wise. So basically..if you can help me sum this up for future generations of seekers..Adveita..aka AWAKENING..is where it is at. But if you want to hold on to the idea of a seperate self then LOA is where it is at..so you can be successful in the dream state(of seperation where seperate self needs xyz to feel complete). Correct?

advietist? dreaming may wake you up, so will play in your dream until you wake up? just wake up and be done with it.

No, I am not saying that I would rather play in the dream than wake up. Ime saying it might be useful to have fun playing in the dream if you haven't woken up yet. There is a difference! So no one else wants to say anything about this besides our resident hardcore advietist?

I doubt the validity of LOA you want something you attract it you hate something you repulse it this is the work of desire/thinking all desire stems from seperation you seem to be saying, I would rather play in a dream than wake up, thats ok too. peace

This is a pretty big question for me. At heart my take is that law of attraction has alot of positive things but where it falls apart in respect to awakening or enlightenment is the center of LOA..you..is seen through. If "you" are no longer the main attraction of your life LOA isn't so interesting. By the same token, we see many people in the "dream state" have great success in wordly matters, making money, attracting what they want. I was actually thinking of starting this thread yesterday saying how awakening is bs and LOA is where it is at to become "successful". But at this moment I have doubts about that. Adyashanti said something that I think sums it up well. Someone asked him about law of attraction, attracting the business, the woman that he wanted to him and how that related to awakening. Adya said with LOA you try to get the girl that you want. When your awake, if the girl that you want wants to be with someone else your so happy for her that she got what she wanted. Thoughts?