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Some people are able to perceive subtle forms and the subtle energy channels, I have been lucky enough to come in contact with two of them - in both cases they didn’t have a clue as to what they were seeing, they weren’t teachers, merely seers, but I have been able to build up an understanding over time about the meaning of what they see, and to work with my subtle body via what they’ve seen to follow its natural evolution. This information broadly accords with Indian Yoga knowledge of the nadi’s and chakras as well as Daoist dantians, and my personal dream information, so I am satisfied that this is the fundamental reality that we need to understand and align with. Non-dualism has no interest in developing these subtle channels as far as I know, I don’t think early Buddhism did either, but Yogis of course did and still do. Here’s a question, why did Tibetan Buddhists who as I understand it have a nondual outlook get involved in working with subtle body channels, was there something lacking in their nondual view that needed subtle energy body work? Or was it subtle energy body work that lead to their nondual view? Perception can change in a single moment, but the blocks in the subtle energy channels take time to clear. I have no wish to change my perception because I equate achievement of nondual perception with the stopping of subtle body development, and I value subtle body development a lot higher than the rewards of nondual perception that I have heard about. “The various yogas all have their own story to tell about liberation, and can be pursued on their own. But as nondualism sees it, the yogas tend to serve as ramp-ups to non-dual inquiry itself.” ~ Greg Goode (Ph.D)

It was a cold room. Not a cold table. Why would I consider them as dakini? First, there are numerous of them, not just one particular figure being. Two, at one point, I stared at her for 5 seconds and trying to make out her facial features. Wow, she looked like Tara or Quan Yin. She was smiling and filled with love energy. Apparently, she was trying to heal my heart. That was what she said in the dream. The lady in red I wrote about earlier? At first, I associated her as Kali in the first dream. The first dream started with me entering into her temple because I told her guard that I have pledged my allegiance to her because I literally dream of Kali few years back. In the first dream, she was very temperamental. In the second dream, she was nicer. These female beings would always appear when my mind is going through some major or minor emotional changes. I assume their behaviors are very active. They are considered as active energy spirits. In my real life, I don't know that many female friends and so they can't be some random representations of my inner physic reality. A lot of times, I just sense that there are some female spirits or entities in my dream environment. I don't even look at who they are. They haven't done any harms to me in my dreams, except my sister. LOL.

See, there's the problem with patriarchy right there. Life is not about efficiency in matriarchy. (I am part cat, I know how important it is to be idle and to exist for pleasure and enjoyment, not for utility, as much of the time as possible.) Yes, women can do everything men can do. Yes, one good stud per group would suffice if it was all about efficiency. We could all be amazons and throw male offspring off the cliff. Amazons (if they ever existed) were not a matriarchal society though. They were an efficient war machine modeled on the patriarchal ways. (Role playing, acting as honorary males -- just like our modern female politicians who are not really women in any sense other than anatomical, they are, for all social purposes, patriarchal overlords.) Your dream of harems is a patriarchal dream. In matriarchy on which, e.g., the Miao tribe's ancient ways were still modeled until very recently (now rapidly going extinct through the combined effort of the CCP and Western tourism), men don't get to run harems -- women get to choose their pleasure. Extra men who are not "necessary" for procreation don't get discarded -- why discard a willing and able source of pleasure? Not just sexual pleasure, mind you -- the pleasure of manhood in all of its manifestations. Men who don't have their heads full of what don Juan called "violent dreams" are delightful creatures. Naturally delightful, they don't have to prove it via accomplishments, they justify their existence by existing. (Of course so do women, in the real world we lost.)

I'm going to share some obvious results of practice from my own personal experience I've seen happen. Such as beginning to feel Qi when you couldn't at all before, then this increasing in different areas of the body, As well as feeling heat during practices, becoming much more relaxed and calm overall. Inner peace. Your thoughts nearly entirely shutting off. Not identifying with said thoughts. Health problems disappearing or no longer mattering. Being able to choose you're emotional state at times. Like making yourself happy for no reason just by focusing on the feeling of joy or love. Dream life becoming more active like Lucid dreams. All sorts of mini psychical ones like precognitive thoughts of knowing someone's coming to visit or about to call or text you. These are just some things I've personally experienced since I started about 4 years ago that were not present before.

Its hard to say what would the actual repercussions be since its your life you are talking about here and so far you know the best how it is you are living it. Making bad choices in life gives us a bad life even if we have the same things and live in the same world as others. I guess people make these choices with awareness that they could live with them once they make them but once they realize they can't they search for new solutions. Thus we come to the death option.. But what is death? And here is the catch.. How we live our life also greatly affects how will we relate to our own death. This in itself doesn't really explain what death is and what happens in stages after it happens but its still important because the different ways of life can take you to different destinations in afterlife since they have a different approach to death momentum. In reality death is an energetic happening that happens to everyone and most people die in a way what is considered today a "regular death" an energy process which they have no control of to what is happening to them which leads to a stage process of reincarnation but since energetically most of the population isn't 100% human before incarnating back to this world as human they get to first incarnate back to the world they came from as whatever energy being they existed as and after spending a lifetime there they can incarnate back again here. The human self part that people dream about splits and travels permanently to a location to continue dreaming an unconscious dream for the time's being. This location is a dreaming version of the waking Earth world we live in which all people naturally inhabit and have access trough dreaming when asleep where they either have lucid dreams or they dream with other people dreaming bodies resolving their subconscious issues. The fake identity part that people consider themselves to be coupled with the petty internal dialogue that follows it isn't even real to begin with as such and isn't a part of our being and therefore as such just continues to plague on everyone living in this world like it already is. Since it isn't real and listening to it only creates illusions taking its advice's regarding life and death would be a bad choice since it doesn't lead to a better solution but rather to a miserable life with just more problems to deal with. This gets us back to the question is death really liberating? I would say that death itself since it is a powerful energy moment in our life touches our whole being in such a way that makes us realize what it feels like to be touched by God again and this is truly liberating but since for most people it happens in an uncontrollable manner and last for just a few seconds before the stages of reincarnations take place leading you to different worlds which are mostly worlds that everyone just wants to break free from, any other strong energetic momentum that takes you away from the mind dialogue and away from your usual self will have the same effect on you, momentum's like meditation, internal silence, lucid dreaming, energy practices, even drugs or power plant medicine. They are all good for your well being if used as such and there is always time for death it happens eventually anyway. And if you get proficient at it and face death as an energy being instead of facing it unprepared you will have to option of keeping the best of your humanity with you on your journey in the afterlife being transformed into a new kind of being, a being that is able to choose its own destination which is truly what freedom is about. This is the point where your fate transcends your purpose. Now if you want to know the abouts of the world you came back from you can find it and experience it for yourself trough consciously controlled lucid dreaming with the little help of the energy beings that live in a near by dimension which can be met trough the avenue of dreaming. This exploration will put you on a path itself. The question is will you want to live there when you see the problems of the very world you came from which the inhabitants experience coupled with a prolonged life span which can seem like long suffering instead. There are also plenty of paths that cover life and death in their own way and the very modern life of a man is also one of them, my point is that everyone is trying to live their life according to the options they know about and if we knew more we would respond accordingly whatever beliefs we have. This is just how I have been taught and why I choose Nagualism as my path since it covers all of the above I've written. If interested Carlos Castaneda covers and writes on Nagualism in his books as the teachings of Don Juan. On the personal side what I like about you is the strength you have and that can be felt behind your decisions all the way from the moment you came on this forum. I also saw that your thinking is still muddled by petty thoughts which I assume is due to being quite young and no much experience on regular work on silencing the mind. Nevertheless this strength is the reason I wrote back because there is a type of intelligence behind it that moved me and make me respond since I wouldn't otherwise, I just couldn't disregard it and be the same. Life has its ups and downs it flows like a wave and after it hits bottom it raises to its glory Wish you well.

Hi - I had an experience that started in a dream where i met my 'spirit guide' - I've never been aware of one before but that was who this character was in the dream. He took me to a place and said 'this is where old souls sometimes come when its time to die'. He then showed me forwards to go on alone. It was like stepping through a portal or something out of the dream world where lots of things switched all at once - I came out of my dream body and felt like I was just a tiny point, the whole surroundings shook and vibrated like the whole world was shaking apart, all kinds of moving shifting light appeared around me, beautiful sounds were all around me - all shifting and changing constantly in tones and all so loud, also I felt like i was rushing upwards, and also a feeling of very strong love. It also felt like i was moving towards the source of the love and as I did so everything got stronger (light, sounds, feelings etc). And the source of it felt like an aware being (god?) in the way you can sometimes feel when someone has their attention on you, but it was a purely loving attention. It quickly got so strong that i heard myself say 'i can't take this any more' and I popped out of the whole experience and was sitting upright in my bed (which has never happened before either.) This happened about 10 years ago - 10-15 years after I started meditating and doing chi gong etc. Since then I often think back to it during practice or just in general. I also get weaker versions of the sensations coming back sometimes in practice, but nothing near as focused or intense. Also its only really the feelings, not the lights or sounds. And yes its also awesome and fulfilling and definitely helps spur me on in practice.

We should also consider that perhaps we are not born into this realm at the same time the body emerges from the woman's womb. It's possible that some mindstreams literally take their place in this realm as functioning children, and then in that appearance they can learn of "past history" without personally having experienced this in a legitimate way because they weren't in this realm at all at that time. Let me give you an example of what I mean. When I dream I appear spontaneously in an adult human body most of the time (I'll ignore the exceptions here, because I've had a few weird dreams as well). Now, if I were to go around in the dream world and ask about my "past" and the past of the dream world, the dream characters will give coherent and believable answers. This doesn't mean I was actually subjectively there in the past of this dream world. However, if I decide to take the dream world seriously, I will need to accept (at least to some degree) some of the things dream characters tell me about myself and about the world. In this way I can acquire "personal past" which I may have never subjectively undergone. And this waking life is no different from a dream in that regard. It's possible to be in a pre-Earth realm and suddenly appear here as a 4 year old and lo, people will tell you how you were born, show you pictures, blah blah, tell you about world's history and so on. All this is basically an illusion if you take it literally, and most people do. I agree with some of your suspicions, but all possible modes of mentation are latent in the mind and it can't be any other way. So just as the refined state of mind you envision is latent in your mind, similarly, othering, labeling, and symbolic interaction with the others that have been othered is all latent in the mind as well. Everything the mind can learn is already internal to it in a latent form. Nothing truly foreign can ever enter the mind. The spells recoil when one is fully relaxed. To relax fully means to know what one's will really is. Once you know what your will is, you will know that you don't need to work yourself over to achieve anything at all. This then is called "spontaneous achievement." This is quite literally magic. When people enter this mode, they do not cognize in an ordinary way. To them other beings are not truly "other" and not "beings" either. The way such person sees oneself also changes. Such people don't see themselves as people. They see themselves as minds, and the mind is only a capacity to know, to experience and to will. Because of this, the mind can develop a weak or even a non-existent commitment to humanity, to the idea that one is a being who lives among beings, and all manner of conventional thinking. When such a mind then relaxes, something strange happens. Or let me put it this way. If you cast a spell on me and I find myself afflicted, the way it happens is that I am afflicting myself by participating with you in sharing some of your assumptions about myself. It means I am actually self-afflicted, and whatever you do from my POV is merely ornamental at the deepest level of insight. That's pretty much all cultures on this planet. If you do anything differently people will treat you differently. If you want broad social acceptance then you're hamstrung as a practitioner of the esoteric arts. Of course since most of us here have human backgrounds, we tend to crave validation from others, so please don't take it personally as if I am singling you out. I am not intending to single you out. In Daodejing there is a passage of being different from the norm and being OK with it (I'm dark, others are bright, etc.). Same in Zhuangzi (like the guy who didn't grieve at the funeral, for example).

None of you should feel grief about having no dream. For when a person becomes deep-rooted in knowledge, dream will be taken away from him. — Prophet Muhammad

Sorry about my english and sentence structure. Waking life is already built world. Dream is built with basically from scratch, big bang and after dream ends it will end all. In waking life you will work rebuilding, restoring your generative force. I don't know why bother on dream, while in waking life you can't still do things because you are preprogrammed and haven't restored original codes. edit: waking life is to be treated as it is dream and fully built before you were born from your parents. So there isn't difference between dream and waking life. .... there is a limit how far you go, as it may be capped with the need to work every time you want human body. Many inhabit body but are not human immortals, that say they will born low again like as ghost.

Haha, I feel a bit the same. I can explain welkin's first post from my POV though. I tend to have a bad habit of lecturing (sorry for the times I've done in the past, I keep it to my ppd now) so I'll try to keep things short to my personal experience. One day I am full of knowledge, and another day I am full of ignorance. Where has knowledge gone and ignorance appeared? One can point to the neuron behavior and so on, how the brain store memory etc, and how physical laws provide a basis for all of this but even physical laws eventually fade away. Science is beginning to touch on this with the heat death of the universe, but personally I didn't arrive at the conclusion through scientific theory. So basically the question remains that where do all these things go? Happiness, sorrow, laws, movement, etc. They all seem to arise and disappear, and even that which does appear seems to be like a heavily colored canvas, which lacks any substantiality. Just like how a fruit painted in a picture, cannot be tasted or grasped. Ex: perception of time is based on past, present and future but all things are observed in the present so how can there be past or future? Yada yada yada and bam. All that can remain is the undifferentiated and unattributed self, in which all things can momentarily arise and disappear as if they have never arisen. Just as how many differently shape bracelets can appear out of the same gold. Yet the gold remains unchanged. For me even knowing this isn't really worth anything, as the sage and the fool are of no difference. The self does not distinguish between the one who knows and the one who doesn't. Similarly, the villain and the hero are of the same merit, for when the truth remains unchanged, what wrong deed or even good deed could have been committed? What is gained from purity that is only obtained momentarily and then lost? What is lost from impurity or sin, that seems to make one lose greatly yet disappears easily. What is even gained from knowing the truth or liberation? Samsara itself is but a play, whether it happens or not do not concern me or anyone, whether they seem to believe it or not. All these things are like dream objects, they do not obtain or lose anything. It is a mirage, without substance though appearing to be solid. Hence all that remains is the truth, which cannot be perceived as an object, but simply is. sidenote/this might be easier to understand: I would feel that getting to the Truth has to do with more of the destruction of knowledge than the obtaining of it. Knowing what the truth is, really isn't more significant from not knowing what the truth is, but it at least allows for one to establish clear vision and sort things out. Seeing clearly means looking past personal emotions/attachments. When someone starts to hear about the world is unreal yada yada it becomes a lot easier to see clearly or enquire. This can be mistake for detachment a lot of times but it isn't really necessary for this process, just indifference or constant enquiry into the personal experience. Even those things aren't necessary, for even worms can attain "liberated". That point aside, at some point knowledge starts to get destroyed faster and faster, regardless of what you do. When all knowledge is finally destroyed, that is liberation/enlightenment. Though enlightenment itself is like a change to an object in a dream.

Sounds good . Putting two heads together better than banging one against the wall Indeed , and at times I have been in that situation , but as you know , the money earned in that situation can be channelled into 'what we will' . But certainly less than ideal . I am STILL learning that . I think, once 'the ball gets rolling' it gains momentum and other things start magically manifesting to assist one ..... or we could say 'dreams start coming true at an increasing rate ' I have experienced this . Just one single example : ( Oh, and I should add , no matter how much of an idiot I am , it doesnt seem to impact on this process ! ) During our hell court case , more than 2 years long , although it we trounced them , like in any long and gruelling fight , there are times when you feel pressure , stress , need a break .... Also it was not that clear then , my mind was saying ' What if we DO loose ? EVERYONE ( for some God damn reason ! ) seemed to be turning against us , even some of the many people we helped over the years - except for two and saying we are going to loose , even 'friends' , soliciters , etc . What if I loose my beautiful abode - what will I do then , where will I live , I have no money ... I will be cast out, destitute , an old street person with health problems But then .... what the hell am I doing ! MY life has never been like that .... things have always 'manifested ' in some strange and unusual way for me . Stop being an idiot Nungers ! You know 'Big Mum' ( as my indigenous teacher calls her ) is looking out for you . So I get back to my old self and think ... so what if I loose it all, thats happened more than once and I ended up better off . I know everyone says they are no rentals and they are crazily high amounts .... but I think I just look online and see what IS available .... ... a 'Lodge' / defunct 'bed and breakfast ' .... up on the mountain ..... at THAT price ? Must be mistake . So me and friend go to check it out . WOW ! Amazing place , I peek through a window " Thats MY room right there. " We ring up .... Oh, MANY people are on the queue for that , but we somehow get to visit the owner , we click, they decide to bump us in ahead of any others . I wont detail how good it was as the main thing is ; one day I drove PAST it , all other times I would drive out, one way to the local town , or drive out , the other way, to see some friends . But this day I went from town to friends , drove past the house and .... wait a minute ! Drive back and do it again . Then it hit me ! This is the place I drove past on my visit to the area before I moved here 30 years ago and I noticed it, stopped and admired it and thought 'What a fantastic place ... and it just resonates with me, like I belong here . Oh what I would give to be able to live in a place like that .... even temporarily , but that seems impossible . I was living in my 'dream house' And that isnt the only thing like that , that happened , there has been many of them . Some times , to a seemingly trivial and material level : the motorcycle ( old retro version ) , I realised after I bought it , is exactly the same sort of motorcycle I dreamed about having as a teen ... I forgot all about that , but now somehow I have one . ( and the reason for that is , I never really needed money before, but I sure thought it might be handy and fun to have some ! ) At the beginning of our court case , they also threatened to take everything I had ... but after investigation they realised I had nothing personally owned ( worth anything to them ) so I was declared a 'man of straw' - a legal term which means basically 'forget it, he's a bum, not worth the trouble of shaking him upside down, only a few cents will fall out ) . The after the case and we won, and after the appeal and we won .. and after it was all finished and settled THEN I got, totally out the blue a multi hundred thousand dollar inheritance . - that now, they cant touch ! Who is working this all out ? ! Many have wondered why 'someone like me ' , never responsible , planning, or saving , ended up where I am . And also interesting is that I did all this stuff , not for any 'karmic reward ' ... it just happened , or I was drawn towards it for other reasons ; things like working with refugee relocation, nursing the elderly , cooking nurturing and feeding people , one could even say being a tarot reader all those years , or time spent as a masseur . I was never interested in charging for it though . And that leads me to another factor ; past life 'accoutrement ' , what we bring with us , I am supposing some experience (or karma ) along these lines already ..... I think it might be a bit hard to get to this stage of realisation or 'fluking' ( ) in one life time . What I mean by this is ... if someone is a BRILLIANT carpenter , they might have carpentry experience before this life ? hang on a minute ! That sounds like what is happening to me ! Surely I am not man of virtue !

Simple Karl...simple time displacement would tell you that you are in a dream. If you dream about your lost friends or people you once knew 20 years ago..and you are interacting with them in your dreams...you know you are in a dream. In the dream of clarity, to use the Tibetan dream yoga terminology, you are receiving information about the future and you are having precognitive dreams. Here, dreams and reality can not be easily distinguished. You have to question if your own karmic traces are generating these visions and dream information. A layperson or a person with a dull mind would still get stuck in their own karmic dreaming. They are still preoccupied with the past. the seeds of their own karma.

That's a beautiful post Bindi. My view is perhaps a bit different at this moment and I'll share, not to disagree, but to collaborate. I currently feel that our dream life is the ongoing mental process that is present for us during the day and night. In dreams this process certainly has a different feel and yet it is not free of the illusions and misconceptions of the ego-mind. As our waking ego-mind becomes less deluded, so do our dreams. Just as dream is directly connected to 'the ocean' as you put it, so is our waking mind. The primary difference is that conscious self-awareness is active will awake and asleep when we dream, unless of course we dream lucidly. This can be a distraction in the waking dream but when used correctly is very valuable in sleeping dream. If you don't already do it, I'd highly recommend trying some lucid dreaming work as it puts a very different perspective on things, at least it did for me. Unfortunately, many of the more modern methods of lucid dreaming focus too much on the entertainment and personal gain value of dreams as opposed to the more traditional approach which focuses on a more spiritual utility in the practice.

A year or two ago I was reading Robert Moss's work, he's an author, shamanic dream path. He wrote that we'd live better if we looked at life as a dream and took our night dreams more seriously. Looking at life as a dream is a good practice imo. It means going through you day, looking at the symbolism of what happens to you, what it might represent on a mythic scale. It makes you look for signs and synchronicities. Its kind of fun. As long you don't take it too literally in which case you might be tempted to think that dream car won't really run you over. Cause dreams come and go, reality tends to be more stubborn. In my personal section I have a thread 'Life as Dream'. I should update it. Yesterday I found a penny from 1920. Actually saw it in a tip bowl, fished it out and put in 30 cents. I find lots of old coins. An old penny is lucky, 1920 is luckier, symbolizing letting good times roll, exuberance building. I've been unusually lucky the last month with stock options. A couple years ago I had a Iching reading with a practitioner here. I asked how could I become a better Trader. The answer was, honor the feminine. So I'm willing to take smaller profits. End risk earlier, keep things diverse. Today, lying by my car I found a shiny dime. In my dream reality dimes are bad luck. Perhaps just cautionary. But that is life.

When we see reality as (or like) a dream at a deep level, we lessen our attachment to it. We no longer are as easily buffeted by the highs and lows. There is somewhat of a detached acceptance, not in a cold and negative way but more in the sense that we are OK with circumstances as they are and they have less power over us. Another consequence is that we feel more free, more able to change things in our lives we want to change. In dream, we can do anything - fly, change our size, duplicate ourselves, change into another animate creature or inanimate substance. When we see reality as a dream, we feel less restricted by our self-imposed restrictions and are able to make changes in our habitual patterns we would not have thought possible. This idea is at the heart of dream yoga practices. Once we develop the ability to dream lucidly, the truth behind the OP's statement becomes more clear and the nature of awareness-dream-reality takes on a different feel.

I just write some personal thoughts here, this might or might not be part of the teachings, anyhow I found it helpful for my practice and understanding - so take it or leave it as you please renunciation seems to be a dreaded thing in the west - I even found it written in some western esoteric books, how we are notment to renounce but to conquer the manifest world... how we demand more life not less life etc. I think these are more or less the words of Dion Fortune. That statement is maybe true or maybe not true, personally I think its maybe her specific kind of colored glasses, and that mayhabs the great buddhist masters had another set of glasses on we don't want to renounce life, I guess we want it all: enlightenment plus chocolate icecream and so on - well why not actually? I think here is how renunciation gets confused for some sort of strange world denying ego trip. renunciation in the buddhist sense, is not a partial renounciation (but that is how it usually starts) - it is impartial and doesn't fall into any extremes the analogy is to be found in the Bodhisattvacharyavatara by Shantideva (I think I quote that text more then anything here) - I can't remember the exact quote but the meaning is something like that: there is a person having a beautiful dream - the dream reality is seemingly endless, years and years of bliss and happiness - and then the person wakes up there is another person having a horrific dream - the dream reality is seemingly endless, years and years of suffering and depression - and then the person wakes up this moment of waking up is the essential point - because in that moment both persons understand it was just a dream, also in that moment where are all this years of suffering and happiness? It is as if they never existed and in buddhism renunciation comes from realizing the union or appearance and emptiness - and it ment to lead back to that realisation if this dance of immaterial phenomena is just like a dream, then trying to be free of suffering and trying to be always happy makes not much sense - momentary happiness or momentary suffering are equally deceiving and just our ordinary dualistic vision to renounce only suffering or think somehow renounciation means to give up icecream is a very limited approach renounciation might mean to don't run around and do all sorts of things - but not because they are inherently negative or evil - just because there is no point in either samsaric happiness or samsaric suffering better to actualize non dual wisdom, and with that realisation then I think one will also "renounce" samsaric happiness and suffering once and for all - so we could call this great renunciation to contrast it with the small renounciation that is induced through contemplating these four thoughts now the small renounciation that we try to give rise to through contemplating the four thoughts, are like the door that will allow us to actually enter the teachings and finally actualize great renunciation - primordial wisdom or jnana or gnosis however you wanna translate or name it maybe that helps in putting buddhist renunciation into a better light?

I used to do a lot of dream work and kept up a very detailed dream journal. I was able to recall a significant amount of dreams each night (to the point where writing down all the detail was kind of a chore). Correspondingly, in my day time practice I was becoming more aware of the thoughts I had throughout the day. In the end, I realized the vast, VAST majority of my dream content was just leftover or recycled thoughts, either from that day or from the past week. For example, I'd see someone in my dream and think it was a big deal... then remember I glanced at their name when scrolling through my phone contacts. Okay, just subconscious processing of stuff. I've had some interesting dream phenomena from time to time. For the record, I DO think dreams can be used from a spiritual development standpoint. However, I also think that you need to have spiritual development enough to be able to distinguish between, say, internally generated mental thoughts and externally generated psychic thoughts. And that takes a bit of work. If you aren't at that point (and I myself, am not) I would suggest not attaching too much to dreams, if something stands out hold it loosely in your awareness, and if something happens something happens. If it's real, it will stick around/keep coming back.

I agree that you need a teacher to help you. I also agree that it can be dangerous if you are not diligent to the point of obsession. Fire demands respect, and if you play around you will be burned. It is possible to treat fire with respect, work with it every day and never be burned by it, but that requires constant diligence, and respect. Few people are serious enough to avoid being burned, because they want to explore and improve things, ergo they want to play with fire. John had many students, and those students took students of their own to keep the knowledge alive that's how it's worked since time immemorial. Also I and others have explored every other option that's been presented to us as best we can and not found a reasonable facsimile yet. As far as Kostas I would like to offer you my perspective. In the circle of people I associate with we have seen far more drama than you can imagine, certainly far more than has been made public here on this forum. Jerry Springer aint got nuthin on us. People who feel entitled to and demand we give them our time and energy, and if we don't they threaten us and do whatever they can whenever they can however they can. Delusional people who think they can fly in the sky and shoot fireballs, yes they really said this. All kinds of narcissistic, and sociopathic behaviors. It is hard not to be jaded and continue to offer your hand in friendship to the general public when your fingers keep getting bitten. I am certain Kostas has seen far more crazy than those I associate with have, and is probably far more jaded as well. It is clear when he wrote the books he was projecting and assumed there were other reasonable people like himself out there who would come together to study and seriously explore this practice. As time progressed he realized just how much crazy is on the internet, and how hard it is to find reasonable and down to earth people who want to pursue things like this. It seems to me he's closed his heart off, and given up on this dream of community with like minded people. I believe he is actively doing whatever he can now to dissuade people from pursuing mo pai as a result of his experiences. That's just my perspective on this situation, take it with a grain of salt.

Cool, yeah! I have a dream where I died and the dream continued: I drowned down a dark ocean, in a sinking boat. It was flooding with cold salty ocean water. Fear, panic. Trying to fight it. Then I coulden't keep my breath anymore, so it overtook me, I had no choice anymore. No choice, completely powerless. I was holding on to my breath so tightly, and it was so hard, it took allot of effort. The energy was building up, it hurt, I coulden't take it anymore. I let go of everything, and drowned. And as the ocean water flooded my lungs, instead of feeling like I was choking, the whole dream relaxed, the moment I let go and stopped fighting and surrendered. I felt a peace of such grandiosity, surrounding all over me and all throughout the dream and everywhere all around and everywhere. My entire body became light again, free, and a feeling of tremendous peace overtook me. The sun was filling the ocean with radiance of magnificent kind, as the dream began to reflect my new state of being. The ocean temperature was perfect. The people around me, in the water, were happy. They were talking to eachother, greeting eachother. I've never seen more alive people, and Ive never felt more alive. I was under water, did not breath, but I did feel my breathing, but it was not my breath, it was the breath of my body in my bed. Slowly I was regaining consciousness of the fact that I am still in my bed, even though I was in this dream and everything was so real and beautiful. I wanted to stay there, but it was beginning to fade away. And slowly the heavenlike place I was, underwater, was fading away. I was about to talk to this other person who just came over to the other side, as he had just "died" like I did, and we were in a conversation, we were so happy and so excited about this new place.The dream faded away. I was slowly coming back into my bed, my body. And regained full awareness of my body.

當你體驗過無幻境之後，你就會知道什麼是幻境。 當你在幻境當中的時候，你很難覺察什麼是幻境，特別是當你相信幻境不是幻境的時候，你更難走出幻境。 幻境與真景沒那麼容易分辨。 老師確實重要。 但是一個老師去證明學生的幻境是真實的。如果是我遇到這種老師，我會盡快遠離他。 因為他將學生導向了一個信仰而非實修的道路。 When you have experienced the non-illusion, you will know what the illusion is. When you are in an illusion, it is difficult for you to perceive what an illusion is, especially when you believe that the illusion is not an illusion, it is even more difficult for you to get out of the illusion. Fantasy and reality are not so easy to distinguish. Teachers are really important. But a teacher goes to prove the student's fantasy is real. If I meet this kind of teacher, I will stay away from him as soon as possible. Because he leads his students to a path of faith rather than practice. 神佛不是不存在。但不會存在於幻境之中。 而這是現在大多數人遇到的最大問題。 將幻境中的集體意識當作是真正的神佛。 Gods and Buddhas do not exist. But not in fantasy. And that's the biggest problem most people have right now. Think of the collective consciousness in the illusion as the real god. 中文裡面的神有兩種意思，當講到修煉當中的神的時候，會使用英文字shen。 當講到神格化的神的時候，會使用gods。 事實上這兩個字在中文是同一個字。 這不是衍生使用，也不是誤用。 而是一個道家修煉的定義。 必須經過神的轉化，才能產生神。 Shen in Chinese has two meanings. When talking about Shen in cultivation, the English word shen is used. When talking about a deified god, gods are used. In fact, these two characters are the same in Chinese. This is not a derivative use, nor is it a misuse. It is a definition of Taoist cultivation. Shen must be transformed in order to produce God. 換言之，在神尚未轉化之前所出現的，都是顛倒夢想。 這些都是五臟陰氣所導致的幻境。 不可信以為真。 如果一個老師真的練到該練的程度，他不會將學生的幻境當作是真實的。而讓學生去相信幻境當中的神是真實的神。 In other words, what appeared before Shen was transformed was an upside-down dream. These are all illusions caused by the yin qi of the five internal organs. Unbelievable. If a teacher is really practicing to the extent that he should, he will not take the illusion of the students as real. And let the students believe that the god in the illusion is the real god.

...or the obverse - it seems to me that a dream has its own entirely believable logical consistency when you are in it, just as the waking world does. In my experience a good portion of the appearance of consistency is brought by our thinking mind covering the inconsistencies in either the waking OR dreaming experience. However, as we drop obscurations the curtain is slowly pulled back. The illusory nature of time/space/self is gradually unraveled in all states of wakefulness, including deep sleep. I find it interesting that in Advaita the "waking state" is considered to be the least conscious, with deep sleep being the clearest. This makes sense to me. Relative cognitions may happen, but it would a delusion to think that they ultimately are made by a "self", wouldn't it? It must be possible to see from prajna (awake awareness) in all states of wakefulness, with practice. IMHO Wisdom is just wisdom - seeing the non-dual nature of reality in every moment, in all (temporary) states and conditions that arise and pass without discernment. It's pointed to in this old chestnut: So, Shariputra, in emptiness there’s no form, no feeling, no perception, no memory, no consciousness; no eye, no ear, no nose, no tongue, no body, and no mind; no shape, no sound, no smell, no taste, no touch, and no thought; no eye nor mind, nor any other means of perception, no ignorance nor old age and death, nor any causal link, and also no end of causal links, no suffering, no source of suffering, no relief from suffering, and no way out of suffering, no wisdom, no gaining wisdom, no failing to gain wisdom. So, Shariputra, without gaining anything, bodhisattvas find refuge in Prajnaparamita, living without walls in the mind, and so without fears, seeing through delusions and finally seeing through nirvana. - Buddha, Heart Sutra

Well, certainly, but it is important to distinguish between essence and function. One cannot purchase an illusory waking state home with illusory money from a dream, for instance. There are still valid and invalid relative cognitions. The wisdom of equality is not necessarily the same as the wisdom of discrimination. It is interesting because the teachers I've had have been fairly split on the issue. Most of my Buddhist teachers have said that most visions, etc. are purely dreamlike illusions (to a point) merely to be discarded. Non-Buddhist teachers, often have an opposite view, especially those involved in energy or magical work. So in this example, how would one distinguish between a vision of a friend who died vs the friend who died is actually visiting?

Yeah you're right. I like the emptiness or nothingness. It's very peaceful, and produces amazing restfulness and sleep. I mean, if anyone with insomnia is willing to simply focus on the nothingness silence, the lack of the mantra when it is no longer sounded. To focus on the absence of something. The lack of that sound has a quality to it, like it's so free from all thought of all experience. It's like instant tranqualizer. I fall asleep almost at will like that. It feels like no longer existing. It's awesome. Especially since I can just do that on will. Just shut off like that. Sleep has so many benefits. But if I sort of do this kind of meditation more wakefully and consciously, like when I am completely and utterly and totally not tired at all, it also produces allot of wake induced lucid dreaming. That experience, going from fully awake and conscious, to suddenly hearing sounds. And then flashes. And feelings. It blends so well with the surroundings you BELIEVE you are in. Like someone speaking from the other side of the window, and their voice is perfectly simulated by the brain or wherever it's coming from, to sound exactly like how that person would sound if they actually spoke from the other side of that window. And often when I wake up from my dreams, it's always so funny to recognize, how my believe, doesn't match the actual reality of my life in so many ways. Like, there was a hallway to the front door. And my believe, the way it was reflected in my dream, didn't exactly match the reality of it. Or sometimes I hear a sound in my dream, and then wake up to find out, that sound is something completely different, even tho it sounded exactly like what I thought it sounded. Reality vs dream The alarm clock vs Sirenes going off in a chemical factory. The steel cutting circular saw vs hundreds of thousands upon thousands soldiers on a giant battlefield filled with steel worn knights, clashing metal on metal, sword on sword, sword on shield, sword on armor. Thousands of them, all the while screaming.

I read it. Broke my heart... "It was a beautiful dream. And I, to whom so great a vision was given in my youth,—you see me now a pitiful old man who has done nothing, for the nation's hoop is broken and scattered. There is no center any longer, and the sacred tree is dead." Black Elk, "The End of the Dream" (1932).

He's got the same colour skin as that alien couple I saw down the river - 'cept they where totally hairless, had no genitals and naked ..... and it was a dream