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I was recently told that Robert Bruce had some good work out there, and when I read through "Astral Dynamics" I started to see a lot of things that had come up with me in my own dream work that I couldn't explain- so I have some respect for it because, well, I've validated it with my own practice beforehand, then again, everyone is different. Rawn Clark has great work, it's too bad he doesn't like Robert Bruce's stuff As far as methods, I really don't like the "set alarm, wake up, go back to sleep" method. Maybe it's cause I'm lazy and I don't want to get up before I have to I've never actually tried the method though, maybe it has fast results. For me the stuff that works is examining your dreams and trying to find recurring themes and elements, really focus on recognizing them, as well as increasing your awareness of various situations in real life, and fairly quickly you'll see some element in your dream and you'll realize it's a dream. Recently though for me, I've become lucid without any dream signs. I'll just suddenly go "whoa, dream." It might have to do with general awareness that I cultivate through meditation, or it might be because of energy work. However, I DO suggest that training to get a continuous, fully engaged awareness at all moments will get you into lucid dreams fast (though admittedly it's hard to do with the monotony of life). For me recently I've started to have a lucid dream in my first set of dreams, then in later REM stages gone into "regular" dreams, though there is some back and forth when it comes to when during sleep I have them. It just comes down to practice, and attitude. Try to have fun

Dream work is fascinating, I try to tackle it seriously every few years, but it ends up exacerbating my insomnia. There is an interesting schism in dream study. There is a Western Technique oriented approach which looks at it as a skill and more traditional approach that sees it as the result of deep cultivation and mature practice. Rawn Clark's written about meetings with other high level people on the astral plane, later they'd call each other to confirm what was discussed and how it was interpreted. Rawn is a pretty mellow guy, but he seemed angry when people compared Bruce Roberts dream work with his. He considered Roberts work to be shallow (I don't agree). Undoubtedly he'd consider Stephen LaBerge's material even more so, since LaBerge is all about practicality. Like Ya Mu and others, he sees a sacredness in dream work that shouldn't be done lightly. Here's what I think works best in the Western quickie model; meditate before sleep 30 to 60 minutes. Clarify the intent to be awake in the dream. Then set an alarm or telling yourself strictly to wake up 90 minutes early. When you wake up, go to the washroom, walk around a little, then set a strong intent to be aware within your dream. With fresh intent in mind go to sleep, preferably in another room. The dreams done in the last REM cycle are easier to recall. Michael

I will disregard your initial wild swings if you don’t mind, Wells . When it comes to those two interesting posts above I’d like to comment: In traditional vedanta I’ve heard it said (paraphrased) that “You are the dream but the dream is not you”. It took me some time to digest, but presently I think it’s a very good description. So I guess words are not all bad? And to make it clear: I don’t think anybody is “theorizing the dreamer”. And a question… “Finally”/“spiritual practice”/“I assume”/“probably”/“somehow” etc.? Am I to understand that you don’t know? In that case it would behoove you to show some restraint. If you won’t that is of course fine as well! I said I wouldn't speak anymore of my experiences/realisations in this thread but I'll break that promise to tell you that all this "I am one with everything"-phase is something I've gone through as well. There is more to come. With apologies to 3bob, the Heart sutra says It well enough! I will watch the video you linked tomorrow, I’m sure it’s great. And I hope I made myself clear! With utter disregard for all tradition I've had a couple of beers! Be well!

The utterly pure view is the union of appearance/emptiness Appearance meaning dependently originated phenomena Emptiness is the absence of a "core" you could say - their openness or space like nature That everything arises like a dream or illusion without "substance" Chackras are dream Energies are dream

Ha! I was still invincible <flexes> until the third motorcycle accident and that big guy in the martial arts tournament Yes ... I suppose so as I am still in awe ... its probably good to be in awe of ones life. Eh? you might have to ask that in different words ... I both ; got more than I dreamed (in some areas) and not 'enough' of what I dreamed in others. On speculation I guess its like initiation ... or being led into the mythic ... as things that were great also happened that I never dreamed of ... in retrospect , if I had known I would have dreamed and hoped to do them as well. Sometimes, with the mythic world, we strive for it, we follow something (like a magic deer) and end up somewhere fantastic, we just stumble upon it ( the magic forest clearing, the abandoned overgrown castle, or fall down a 'rabbit hole'; all different ways. Yep that was dream too - martial arts ... although too lazy for the 'be like Bruce Lee' dream ( ahah I found a false dream ! To dream to be like another ... agree? ) seriously ... I am happy ... and content , many people think I am bullshitting about that. I must confess I don't make a very good Buddhist ... that suffering and sorrow stuff ... the' trance of Binah' IMO ... its fine .. all PART of it... but one can go further It not only makes sense its relevant to me ... but hey! I'm 'retired' (been retired since 1975 ) Yep .. that's it ! I don't even know what a PFF is seriously ... I can be blindingly dumb in some areas. is it some personal profile page here ? an internet facebookey thing (in which I refuse to co-operate or tweeter or whatever ... and while ya at it keep that goddamn blue toothey thing away from me ... consarn it ! ) Now I am off to search for magic carpets

I have MANY dreams. They change over time of course. Previously they were all a mish-mash of ego wish fulfilment and humanitarian fantasies. Of course, back then, I thought I was very wise and knew what was best – for just about everyone. Ahhh … youth , testosterone and self-assurance! When my dreams came true they were often little occurrences and events that may or may not have seemed significant at the time, but then , when vision expanded they became parts of a whole, fulfilling many dreams I have had … both ‘mundane’ and significant of a life’s ‘work, path, dharma true will’. So I, being very Neptunian and dreaming a lot … and also being fortunate enough to have balancing and ground natal aspects as well, had many dreams fulfilled which has given me, what some tell me, is a very full and rich life. I believe that sort of thing is relative as I see and know many people that have a life SO rich and full and diverse it blows me away. I can say; I have hardly travelled, I have never had children, I have not … blah blah … but again … Dharma. I’m not sure I would change anything or ‘fiddle with the formulae ‘ if I had a chance. I would often dream about having the money to do …. But no … that doesn’t seem to work … yet. But I would often get the thing , or some form of the thing, that I wanted to buy with the money I wanted … good, as it stopped me in from being too greedy. Flying … I still want that dream to come true … that is going to be GREAT when that one happens! … I mean ; just me … flying , no glider or Garuda … just me … oh OKAY! … maybe a magic carpet then, I would settle for that. Here are some dreams that came true for me: I wanted to be free and individual and not too tied up in the system … I didn’t want to spend time working but living ; camping out, some travelling, endless hours in the ocean, at the beach and under the water. I wanted to live for a time with basic camping equipment, enough money and a Triumph motorcycle and just cruise around and see the country. I wanted to live on a ‘hippy commune’. Hang on … change all those wants to dreams … I dreamed of: Studying cultural anthropology, divinity and comparative religion at University (but not have to bother with exams, just do the units I chose … and I wanted someone else to pay for it. Join a coven. … Never have to go back to school again !!! Ooohhh I dreamed of THAT one soooo much! (And it came true ! … For years, occasionally I would wake up in the morning and go ‘Oh NO! … wait a minute – I don’t have to school anymore ! ) - I am liking this meditation … Find a secret magical ‘occult’ order and join it. Connect with the indigenous and learn about life and this land from them. Be with lots of different beautiful woman … (ah yes a constant dream that one ! Seeing as I was a virgin until I was 20!) I could go on … and on and on … but I am interested to read as well. Current dream? To just go on for a while longer in relative comfort and to be left in my ‘own space’; a nice spot connected to nature and the animals, the beautiful ‘ti-too ti-too’ (and other) bell like calls of the eastern rosellas that sound to me like pixies playing in the garden … to maintain communication with the ‘elemental’ kingdom in a special little nature spot I live in … to get a car … to continue my spiritual development … and that everyone works their stuff out ‘as they will’ without so much splattering their own gloop around onto other people and nature. Any jobs going on that island for an old dotty gardener that would like to help Bio-dynamically assist the nature there? (I promise not to do laps of the island on a Triumph, have a harem, invite hippies, or splatter gloop – although I may want to write, paint, make things out of bamboo, and occasionally FLY laps of the island.) ...

Since you asked... and it depends on a few 'stories'... but they are brother and sister who after marrying prohibited the marrying of those with a similar clan name; it must be good to be the 'first' and to make up the rules Fu Xi, (伏羲) was born Mi Xi (宓羲), which means ‘silent breath’. Fuxi is also known as Tai Hao (太昊), or Great Magnificant, Tai Di (太帝) or Celestial Emperor, and Pao Xi (庖犧) which may be the origin of his teaching of "yielding sacrificial-animals". Fu Xi's surname was Feng (風, wind) which is pronounced the same as another character Feng (鳳) meaning a Pheonix. Fu Xi observed Pheonixes gathering on a tong tree and based on this image he made the string instrument guqin (he cut down a piece of tong wood to make a qin and used silk cord for strings). The sound of the Qin was said to restore the inner soul. He is called the first of the Sovereigns and attributed to be guided by the element of wood, the season of spring, the cardinal direction of east, and the planet of Jupiter. http://www.mysteriouschina.com/chinese-myth-legend-1-fu-xi-legend/ Nu Wa, ( 女媧 or 女娲) also had the surname of Feng (風) being the sister of Fu Xi (at least in some accounts). She is sometimes referred to as the snake goddess. There is an interesting alternate story for her name: that her father was Shui Jingzi (水精子), the Spirit of Water belonging to a tribe in northern China with the surname Ying 嬴 (meaning snail). She was formed like a human being except that, instead of having legs, she had a tail and glided over the earth. She had a long head with two fleshy horns, her body resembling that of a snail (wa 蝸), hence she was called Nu Wa (meaning snail-maid), and worshiped as a snail goddess (蝸牛神). According to "Duyi Zhi" (獨異志) by Li Rong of the Tang Dynasty (618-907), sectioned as “opening of the universe”, there were a brother and a sister called Nvwa, living in Kunlun Mountains (崑崙), and there were no ordinary people at that time. They wished to become husband and wife, yet, felt shy about it. Thus, the brother took his younger sister to the top of the mountain and swore: "If Heaven allows us to be husband and wife, please let the clouds gather; if not, please let the clouds scatter." Then, the clouds gathered together. The younger sister came to live with her brother. She made a fan with grass to hide her face. The present custom of women taking a fan in their hands originated from that story. Where did they come from? According to the book of Liezi, The Dream of Huaxu (華胥之夢 Huaxu zhi Meng) means a dream like or uptopia land: “The Yellow Emperor had ruled for 15 years but he worried because the world was not well-ordered; so he withdrew, resting himself in the Palace of the Great Court. He purified his heart and submitted his body (to plain living). For three months he himself had nothing to do with carrying out the affairs of state. Once he had a daytime dream about traveling around the state of the Huaxu clan. This was a natural place, where people had no cravings and did not die prematurely. They did not think about clinging to life, nor did think about the fear of death. (Ideas about) beauty and ugliness did not grow in their hearts. mountains and valleys did not cause them to stop walking, and they took lived happily. When the Yellow Emperor awoke he felt happy and contented; he now understood the greatest Dao. For the next 28 years the world was very well regulated, resembling the state of the Huaxu, uptopia society, (in his dream).” Tradition holds that HuaXu was a clan and the matriarial ruler who was the mother of Fuxi and Nuwa. It was said she saw a very large footprint while travelling around Thunder Lake and got caught up in its energy but then emerged pregnant. She is said to have carried Fuxi for 12 years. This area was called Chengji. Eventually she gave birth to Fuxi...

In Algonquin, “wendigo” translates roughly to “the evil spirit that devours mankind.” According to legend, these emaciated monsters with matted hair and decaying skin were made when a person cannibalized another. They became transformed into a wendigo with an insatiable appetite for human flesh. The Cree developed a dance to help them deal with the nightmare of these cannibalistic creatures. The Wihtikokansimoowin involves satirical portrayals of the man-eating monster and valiant portrayals of wendigo hunters. Legend holds that the Cree’s “Wendigo-like Dance” was performed during periods of famine to reinforce the gravity of their cannibalism taboo. Conceived in a dream, the dance was first performed by the Assiniboine tribe. The Cree eventually adopted it and incorporated it into their Sun Dance ritual. It is always performed on the last day of the celebration. The last known Wihtikokansimoowin in the United States occurred at Leech Lake Indian Reservation in Northern Minnesota.

Just be moderate in sexual activity. Avoid pornography. Remember that this stuff (alchemy, meditation, spiritual cultivation) is not an easy thing to achieve. It’s very much the pinnacle of human achievement. Despite what many modern teachers suggest. They have a profit motive You know how you see the discipline and sacrifice it takes to be an Olympian? It’s similar with these more advanced arts. Its normal to be inspired by Olympians and be motivated to exercise for a bit every week and have a moderate, healthy lifestyle... but don’t expect to win gold at the olympics. I get that this might sound disheartening or demotivating... but I personally think it’s better to hear the truth than to be sold a dream that just wastes your time - or worse. If you want to live a normal life, have late nights, drink, smoke weed, watch porn, see other humans as ‘boing-boing‘ etc... then just do that and enjoy yourself... maybe practice some simple qigong or martial arts, get strong, develop some self discipline etc. This is a great start. At some stage in your life maybe you’ll be ready to get into the more in-depth practices like alchemy, MCO, meditation etc. These things are simply not for everyone - just as being an olympic swimmer is not for everyone. Doing these things before you and your lifestyle are ready means that your lifestyle suffers and your practice is not only ineffective but potentially dangerous! We regularly get people coming to this forum that have developed really serious issues - mental and physical from doing Chia’s practices (and from other similar teachers).

Hmmm...could be. It's like the description says. And these people, at least the ones I think have blue elements really love pixar movies, and that kind of thing. You know. With that energy. It's the kind of thing they like. And I haven't met one yet who didn't adore disneyland. I know what you're going to say we all love disneyland. But, with them it's different. They carry that with them. If you know what I mean. It's almost as if they carried that energy on them. That blue, energy. And a sort of toy story vibe. It's the kind of honesty you dream people had in real life. But it seems only they have it. Indigo or not. They're sensitive. But a sensitivity that's true. Not a drama of a tele novela where you want to hang yourself. No. These people are real. But indigo people, if we're talking about the same thing, are often considered childish by others: regular folks. They like to hang out with aspergers a lot, I noticed. Perhaps because of their sensitivity. But I think also to not get hurt. ps: oh. And also another observation. But I don't really have a big sample. They seem to love marijuana. And I was speculating with myself that perhaps marijuana acted differently on blue people and made the soul grow. But in a different way to regular people.

"Why we do not see the reality and how everything simply Is ?" Lot of us do not live our daily lives with the realization that there is no true distinction between a dream and what we call commonly as "reality" in the mundane sense of the word. True reality of nature/mind contradicts the common usage of the word "reality" in current world, in this generation. When humanity is able to go about normal lives/daily actions, with the continual realization of (what we call commonly as) "reality" is simply an extension of dream, our thoughts (in their core/essence) are "dream-like" in nature, our thoughts have their root in our conditioning (as humans, as human minds) then humanity would live in a higher god-like state. The purpose of discussions in forums like these is to slowly/steadily elevate humanity to that evolution, to that higher divine state of society.

Awareness always seems to be from the center. From within... Whether dream, or 'reality'.

"Those who dream of the banquet, wake to lamentation and sorrow. Those who dream of lamentation and sorrow wake to join the hunt." ChuangTzu

That is a good question. There are many theories abound about it. Karma, etc etc. I think the dualistic world is like a video game. Whatever that is, assumes all these various characters and does plays this MMPORPG . The "awakening" is a very simple and ordinary event, that happens to all of us many times in the game. However, we are so engrossed in the role-playing that we fail to see this event when it happens. And even if we do see this event, we look it over because we are so engrossed in the game. This happens often in dreams when we become aware that we are dreaming but the dream continues as we don't exercise the freedom that arose from that awareness. I too have a friend who was "awake" from childhood. He is often mistaken as being "naive" or "foolish". But he has no guiles whatsoever, innocent like a child. He "knows" a lot of stuff but doesn't know what they mean or even that they are supposed to be these mega-super-powerful-nuggets of "enlightenment". So when I tell him stuff he'll go "Wow...you are teaching me a lot!". Haha...no I'm not teaching him squat...he already knows. He even had a dream that I am his spiritual "confirmer" My Master is like that too...innocent like a child. But with him, there is also a confidence that arises from total faith in the Dao. Each of his acts are acts of pure compassion and detachment. Yet he is actively involved in helping people all the time, pretty much throughout the day. When i look back at myself, I know the point when I lost this "innocent connectedness". So there is something to the "losing innocence" bit. But the fact is, that the true nature is always there, just masked by the contrivances and modifications of the mind and body. I think each of us can identify this sort of thing at a certain point in the journey.

I deliberately didn't pursue this further because I detected a bit of resistance in Manitou, but as you have brought it back up. Manitou remembers she was in the Golden tunnel and so she is identified with it. If there had been no identity, then there would have been no experience and no memory of it. I remember a film, or a dream, but during the film or dream I was not aware of myself. My awareness was on the film, or dream. Don't confuse not having an awareness of self with not having identity. Manitou did not experience death during tantric sex, she experienced life. Death has no experience. To be afraid of death is pointless as there is nothing, to be afraid of dying is natural and shouldn't be rejected, or you refuse to affirm life. Live then die. Definitely live first. Don't seek to die prior to death.

Hi! I would appreciate some inputs on my situation with regards to sleep and dreams. No matter how long i sleep I wake up feeling the need for more sleep. My current job do keep me from having a perfect regular sleep schedule. What I notice is that I always wake up from a dream, and I can fall asleep again and continue the same dream. Sometimes i wake up during the night, go to the toilet and continue the dream where i left off. Often in my dreams I'm aware of my own body and it feels like im not sleeping or dreaming. It pretty much feels like im awake somewhere else other than my body. I would love to wake up fully rested and energized. Can't remember the last time that happened.

Meditate, meditate, meditate, meditate, meditate, meditate, meditate, meditate, meditate, meditate, meditate, meditate, meditate, meditate, meditate, meditate... And: This is what you should do: do not get angry, do not lay down during the day, and always retire your body but not your shen. The essence of sleep, after all, is the soul of the body. If you can manage to sleep little, then the master mind will be bright and alert. Not only will your shen qi be flowing freely and purely, but you will also not be disturbed by dreams. Every time you are overcome by a craving for sleep, blood rushes to the heart and the original shen is forced to leave its abode. The clouds then cast a gloomy shadow over the heavenly realm of spirit, and the shen itself will grow dim and unconscious just like its domicile. The Daoist master Zhang Sanfeng once said: 'Grasp the dream in the dream; behold the darkness within the darkness. Since I saw the face of the girl, I can happily view the paradise, Penglai, right in front of my eyes. This is precisely what I mean! The Neijing , furthermore, states: 'The three months of spring are the period of commencement; heaven and earth are born, and all living things are flourishing. Get up early in the morning, walk around in the courtyard, loosen your hair and relax your body. By doing so you will generate mental strength and act in harmony with the qi of spring, thus following the way of nourishing life. If you live contrary to this principle, you will harm your liver.' Everybody should be aware of this basic principle. http://www.itmonline.org/5organs/liver.htm

I think im in trouble. This is not a welll edited post i keep hallucinating when it is time to sleep when i close my eyes to varying degrees. it starts as pictures but then i lose myself in it. So its either a hallucination. Or a semi dream while not being fully asleep ive been waking up talking to people the last 2 days the electricity behind my eyes got bad and my eyes roll slightly to the side and i kept waking up and think im slightly convulsing as well as was fullblown hallucinating with my eyes closed 1day ago i called The doctor to say i may be having psychosis red flags.. all they done is referr me to a psychiatrist weeks from now Then today i called that i dont think its psychosis but that My eyes are rollling to the side, thst i feel electricity in my head n that im having some kind of convulsions in my sleep thst wake me up still shaking. And that i had full blown hallucinations the doctor called with the crisis team, and the neurologist. And the neurologist decided this wasnt anything acute and that i have an appointment in 2 weeks i havent slept alll night i went to the emergency room whike i waited because i was afraid to fall asleep what do i do with this?????? They refuse to look at me. And i dont know where to find an acupuncturist either beyond that the hallucinations have been scary seeing alot of scary faces n things even when its just pictures and i accidently tell them things because i cant controll my toughts things like i invite you in. And then i see disturbing things im completely sound of mind when im awake, Now im scared for my health n the fact that im saying all these kind of things to demonic looking creatures. what if they really are spirits? N not hallucinations i dont know what to do what do you do in a situation like this????

Traveler, as we are of One Mind, I would love your help on something. Please read post #11 in this thread where I did a ceremony for a young man that was in a motocross accident and ended up quadriplegic. His father is an alcoholic, and the boy is terrified of him. His father forced him to enter the race. Please look at my interpretation of this dream and tell me if you see it as wrong, or specifically to the opposite of what I see. I think this dream directly relates to my question of whether to have another ceremony for Joshua (young man) Yesterday, I made up my mind to do another ceremony to get the current down to his lower body (I would get Chrissy, his friend, back to do it again; this time with more focus on the lower limbs - same physical ceremony with the rice and the lamp). I had determined that today I would contact Chrissy and have her come back over to do it. This morning, I woke up with a dream fresh on my mind. I had dreamt of Lance Armstrong - it suddenly hit me that Lance was a 'biker', although not a motocross rider - but the analogy is there. I know no famous motocross riders, so it makes sense that this would come to me as Lance. Lance was standing at the edge of a pool. He was coaching a young girl who was in a wheelchair to learn to swim. She and her wheelchair were up on the diving board; she dove in, still sitting in the chair; but able to use her arms (as Joshua now is too). She swam across the length of the pool okay (still attached to the chair). Toward the end of her swim she went under; something had happened to the chair, it broke somehow, dragging her down. Lance did nothing. He just stood there, looking into the water, standing next to a duffel bag. Finally the girl popped up (I don't remember seeing the chair at all) and she was gasping for breath, coughing and sputtering. Still, he did nothing. He had no expression on his face, no panic, no nothing. After he saw that she came up, he bent over and picked up his duffel bag and left; didn't help her out or help her regain her chair. He just left. I remember turning to the person sitting next to me and saying "What an Asshole", referring to the fact that Lance didn't help her out of the pool to check to see that she was okay. The moment I woke up, my first thought was that I was wrong in calling him an asshole. It was a judgment, which was my error, I knew this immediately. What I'm thinking is that Joshua needs to go within, without judgment, and reexamine his relationship with his father. He needs no further assistance in the way of ceremony; the rest is up to him and getting through the blockage in his psyche, the paralyzing fear of his father. Lance did exactly the right thing; he took his 'medical bag' (or provision cart, in our case) and let it be. I think that's what I will do; I will let this be, unless the situation spins into me again in some form. I would be happy to assist Joshua in learning to love his alcoholic father without judgment (as hard as that would be for a teenage boy) so that he doesn't re-manifest anything of this nature again. But I will take no steps to do so unless, as I say, it spins around again, in the form of a request from my friend Chrissy or Joshua's mother. From your outside position, can you triangulate anything different in this dream as it pertains to the situation? Do you think I'm seeing this correctly, or can you see it a different way? I may be too close. Your idea of looking into the Hua Hu Ching and looking for commonalities with Pike is a good one; a very meaty idea. I was under the impression that Pike didn't create the Scottish Rites, but instead organized longstanding traditions which to that point had been verbal and handed down. Do try and find this book! It will astound you, I guarantee it. The way he ties in all traditions, mystic and religious, from around the world, throughout history, is a rare thing of beauty. Manley Hall does much the same but Albert Pike, as you say, is truly a genius. Actually, they both are.

There are differences and there are similarities, between cultures, between families, between individuals. We can focus on either but it is important not to focus on one or the other exclusively, otherwise we restrict our potential. Texts do not rely on commentaries, people rely on commentaries. Zhuangzi is capable of speaking across millennia, bridging language and culture, communicating very directly and personally. We are the ones that need to be open and prepared to hear what he has to say. Certainly there are challenges but when you hear what he is saying, you know. When he speaks of the archer going blind when he is more focused on the prize than the act of releasing his bow, I know exactly what he is saying, as does every soccer pro who ever missed a penalty shot, or golfer that missed a 2 foot putt. When he speaks of the ambiguity of waking and dreaming, the sudden feeling of uncertainty, of mystery and possibility is unmistakable and pure. No need for commentary or cultural translation. While I agree that there is value in cultural and linguistic coloration, subtlety, and precision, it is not an all or none proposition. I think you are selling yourself and others short, especially the old masters who wrote down these profound lessons. There is a reason why these teachings are held so dear that they are passed down for hundreds and thousands of years. They are not limited to any particular scholarly, linguistic, or cultural tradition. They are able to express something deep and valuable, and not only to a limited few but to anyone, anywhere potentially. And the meanings, very much like poetry or other forms of art, are not restricted to a particular perspective. No one can claim complete authority over the meaning of profound spiritual texts or art. In part this is because what we need from a teaching as individuals is not necessarily an answer or a piece of information; what we often need (some may say always) is something that loosens an obstacle or a blockage in us, allowing the truth that is deep and hidden, but always already present, to shine forth. Profound spiritual lessons are not so much like learning a new mathematical equation or grammatical rule, it is more like being guided to a feeling of coming home to something very deep, very certain, very supportive and nourishing; and it often feels like waking up from a long to dream to something you somehow knew all along.

Fair points, but consider this as well: when you stick your hand into the fire, you feel pain. However, are you actually feeling what fire is? or are you merely interpreting a sensation (pain, heat, etc) to get a better understanding of the actual nature of fire? When you look at a fire, or a picture of a fire, or someone describes to you what fire is, do you automatically understand every single thing about fire from just that? Of course not, things tend to be much more complicated than our senses and descriptions give them credit for, and yet somehow they retain the ultimate simplicity of the natural way of things. It's not about whether it hurts or not, it's about being able to understand that fire is not merely "something that is painful to stick my hand into", that is merely one singular property from an observation made by the observer. In regards to the dream scenario, though you recognize a dream only as a dream when you wake up, how is there any way of knowing that this is not a dream, or even some simulation? How do we even know what happens when we die? How can we understand the nature of the "true universe" through our mere sensations? How do we even know that there even is a true nature of the universe? It is only the opinion of one person, but I feel that one must think extraordinarily highly of their ability to perceive the universe in order to claim that they can "know" the answer to any of these questions without considering a single iota for belief. That is the role that belief plays in my understanding. I "believe" that there is a true nature to the universe. I "believe" that our senses, while not able to show us the true nature of the universe itself, can provide us with information and insight that reflect the true nature of the universe. After all, our senses are the only thing that allow us contact with anything external to ourselves.

Never said anything like that. Emptiness, and non-emptiness. Truth is emptiness. False is non-emptiness (inherent existence). Cognition of reality simply means correct cognition in the authentication of true wisdom (such as the wisdom of the twofold emptiness). Cognition 'of' does not imply subject/object duality, just as 'cognition of red apple' does not imply 'cognizer' - it just means 'cognition of red apple'. Cognition of red apple can have two types: false cognition and correct cognition. False cognition cognizes a seer seeing an inherently existing red apple. Correct cognition simply cognizes suchness, as Buddha says, "When cognizing what is to be cognized, he doesn't construe an [object as] cognized. He doesn't construe an uncognized. He doesn't construe an [object] to-be-cognized. He doesn't construe a cognizer. Thus, monks, the Tathagata — being the same with regard to all phenomena that can be seen, heard, sensed, & cognized — is 'Such.' And I tell you: There's no other 'Such' higher or more sublime." Just because all are empty doesn't mean there isn't a correct and false way of cognition, the prior leading to wisdom liberation, the latter leading to suffering and delusion. So our compassion goes for those in delusion and suffering as a result of that delusion. Of course even to talk about wisdom and ignorance is also to speak in conventional terms because ultimately there is no wisdom, no ignorance, no ... . So if wisdom and ignorance are conventional truths why bother talking about it? Why bother talking about conventional truths if they are ultimately not true? Firstly as I said, karma, ignorance and its effects can be observed on the conventional level. If there is no sentient beings and no suffering, why talk about saving sentient beings? Even though Buddhas only perceive wisdom/ultimate truth and not conventional, nonetheless as Namdrol says "if you suffer from delusion, then you are still beholden to the two truths. It is inescapable." As an analogy, if you suffer from delusion, you require realization. Actually emptiness is always already the case and requires nothing - realization is only relative to ignorance (trees have no ignorance and no wisdom) - but the only cure to delusion is realization and the only way to attain realization is to walk the eightfold path. Then as an awakened being you become aware of the ultimate truth and know there is no ignorance, no realization, no suffering, no cause of suffering, no end of suffering, no path to end suffering, no . So everything becomes like 'dream-talk' - even talks about four noble truths are 'dream-talk', but it is nonetheless necessary for someone still trapped in the 'dream' (as in, trapped in delusion). A buddha however don't need it anymore but to teach sentient beings he has to engage in dream talk - mere skilful means. Ultimately, as Buddha himself said, he taught nothing at all - because ultimately nothing can be said. Thats like saying - there is already no self, you don't have to get rid of self, you don't have to practice anything to be no-self, you don't have to do anything. But that doesn't work for most of us - we can't realize it so such a statement is as good as useless. But once we have a method in which we can practice to realize the truth, then that means something for us. Insofar as there is the slighest trace of delusion left, you have to engage in further practice and contemplation. So there is a place for compassion, for skillful means, for dream talk. They are all in reference to sentient beings trapped in delusion.

Thanks for not plastering quotes. I like this shorter back and forth. Let's keep it this way when we discuss this issue. I don't want us to write pages of quotes and replies. I don't think it's necessary, especially since you are awakened and have a very clear mind. IMO your reply shows that you haven't really thought about this that much. If you awake in a dream, are you dreaming anymore? Also, is "no longer being deluded about the dream" an appearance, or is it referring to something recognizing the dream as delusional? Your answer is probably not the latter. So if it's an appearance, then it is also illusion. So now the distinction between delusion and illusion no longer make much sense since there is no one to be deluded about something. Your "enlightenment" according to your ideas, is just another appearance! So why do you say something is deluded and something is not deluded? p.s. you realize you can manipulate the ordinary world just like the dream world. The dream tiger can kill you too: you wake up on your bed and you are no longer in the jungle.

It is illusory but not delusory. Know lucid dreaming? In a dream, you may suddenly turn lucid so are no longer deluded about the dream, but the dream goes on, and you can manipulate the dream, fly in the sky, make use of the illusion. Fun stuff. But if you think the dream tiger chasing after you is real, not so fun.

I have had two Skype sessions with Sifu Max, and my friend had one as well. We both tried to record the Skype sessions, not in order to distribute it, just so we could revisit the conversation and learn from it... it's hard to remember that much information, the hour goes by so quickly. Anyways, the recordings failed every time for both of us. My friends computer completely fried, it was unusable after. When I tried it the first time I tested it out before and everything was working, but when I later opened the video it was simply missing. Only the audio was there. I tried it again with different software recently and again tested it right before. Well I had this strange dream the night before the Skype that the recording wouldn't work and I turned my webcam off in my dream. When I started the Skype with Max my webcam just wouldn't turn on, which has never happened before, and again the software I had just tested failed after 5 minutes of recording right before he showed me a bunch of amazing pictures that are not online. Interesting stuff. Obviously could be coincidence, but I've experienced weirder things in my life. Anyways, the point is it is helpful to be able to entertain two sides of an argument, even if you are absolutely sure of the truth. So, you've all had plenty of practice with the argument that he is a fake, but why not try the opposite perspective just for fun. Imagine he actually was a master, and that all of these things were possible. Imagine he has experienced his own body as well as Dianas and Kans bodies disappearing. So he knows it is real. Now, what if they don't know much about cameras... and they take a photo with long exposure and their body looks transparent. It wouldn't be difficult for them to think the photos are just capturing what they have seen before. Not saying this is the case, but it is a middle ground between the photos being real or the photos being purposely faked in order to deceive. Also, I am a graphic designer and use Photoshop all the time. The photos were not edited in any major way, except perhaps some increased contrast and brightness adjustments. But again, these photos are nothing compared to more recent ones. Just go pay a small amount, meet him and his wife in person, and do the practices. What's the worst that could happen? They are incredibly kind and fun people. I have been practicing Kunlun and Red Phoenix for almost two years now. They are wonderful practices. One of you mentioned that they gave you nightmares... well a laxative makes you poop, but would you rather it inside or outside you XD . Meditation heals in many different ways, unfortunately some of them are not pleasant. In the beginning of my training I also got very sick, and it was a result of me holding on too much to what the meditation was trying to release from my body and mind. Panic attacks, fever, chronic type ailments... went to the doctor a few times and they said there was nothing wrong. Also had the nightmares, sleepless nights etc. It can be scary, which is why it's good to have good friends and teachers on the path. That being said, some problems that can occur from meditation is from the energy getting stuck in parts of your body, especially the head and brain. This can be serious. Make sure you are bringing the energy back down after every practice and spend at least five minutes with your hands over your navel with a light relaxed awareness on that area of your lower dan tien. Allow the energy to flow back down from your head and other parts of your body into this center. Many problems can be avoided by remembering this. If your practice is giving you panic, ringing in the ears, heat in the head or insomnia make sure you do this. If focusing on the navel doesn't help try first focusing on the ming men point on the lower back. It is the point directly opposite of the navel. This point regulates the energy going up and down the spine and is like a release valve that will make sure you dont have too much energetic pressure in any part of your body. Focus here, then focus on the navel or lower dan tien. Just some thoughts. Make sure you keep up with your own studies, practice and explore. Questioning is good, but don't let yourself get sucked down into cynicism and over critical states of mind. Open up, have fun, and whatever you are practicing.. give it your all while you are doing it. 99% of your success depends on your mental state and has nothing to do with your lineage or practice anyways. Hope this helps, Phosphorose