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It's my view that chatting online, particularly when that discussion tends to be critical of others, is far more unhealthy than traditional dream and sleep yoga practices. Dream and sleep practices help us to liberate karmic traces and samsaric patterns. Criticizing others' practices online tends to accumulate karmic traces and reinforces samsaric patterns. At the end of the day, it's your choice. The practices have been very beneficial to me. I'm curious, if you've never studied the practices or worked with a teacher what do you base your criticism on?

Its the sound of sterness. As this sound of the rectum and initiate bowel movements. When that voice succeed then death comes. He will abandon the system. You look it probably down because its you read it and see it outside and doesn't have to deal with it. When it is inside of you, it feels different than it sounds. You need it inside you when you suffer from constipation. Also you will deal with that feeling of horror, fear, and inevitability if you want to break past elbow. -------- lucid dream is a negative. It is for to get access to body, that you would feel the negative in you. --- you won't wake up in a dream unless you have reached to hands in waking state reality.

As to being the observer of the weirdness, this reminds me of waking up into a dream in the morning - floating along with the dream for a while, thinking it makes perfect sense. Then, when you decide to open your eyes and actually get up, you realize 'Damn! - that was one weird dream!' It's like there's this separate reality in dreams where causation is entirely omitted, and yet at some level we fully understand what the dream is doing. Our waking self apparently requires the cause and effect-ness of our daily understanding. The dream is happening all Here, all Now. I've heard it said that although it seems that dreams may involve a long span of 'time' (to our sleeping perception), they actually occur in a very short time. Somehow our dreaming mind is not respectful of the laws of time or space or gravity.

Yesterday I went for my first in-person qigong master healing at http://springforestqigong.com I mean with the "original" qigong master there. I was referred to him by the qigong master who was helping me out before, the who was trained by the original qigong master. All I can say is it is a very amazing experience to have someone focus energy on you - and you feel a laser like blissful heat focused deep in your body. It is very relaxing and a deep loving energy. So then afterwards he told me where he detected blockages and that was exactly where I had felt him focus his energy with the laser-love bliss heat. So that matched up well. Now in the past I have gotten a phone healing from him - maybe more than one - but when I got the phone healing it was even deeper healing in some sense - it was a deep heart energy. But also when I got the phone healing I had fasted for three days - and so maybe that's why I felt the energy deeper and at that time he said my jing energy was very weak - obviously since I had fasted for 3 days. This time I had a couple eggs with olive oil in the morning to make sure I had some jing energy. haha. Anyway the qigong master says actually it's easier for him to do phone healings since it's more impersonal and so he picks up less superficial blockages. So again maybe that's why the phone healing felt like even a deeper heart energy. But still in person - the energy felt more focused - on specific body parts - and like I said he backed that up by explaining what he was doing. Also he said how he hadn't seen me in a while and it was nice to see me. So that was nice to have some personal interaction. Still I remember the qigong master saying how when people come to him to get healed they often want to talk but the healing really doesn't involve talking and so I just answered back to him in one word responses and didn't instigate any comments or questions. I personally reminded myself not to engage him in any conversations. I mean he started out with a questionaire that he was writing down answers on - so asked me if I had felt any pains or aches and I said no. He asked me, "How can I help you today?" So then I told him a few sentences. He said - so you need to be more centered. Anyway still I had told myself before I went into the healing - when I made the appointment that I would just keep going back until I felt I was really healed. I definitely felt better and he treated things that I didn't even know about. But still I am very sensitive to food and I get the internal tingling from any kind of sugar - like even sugar in milk or sugar in kale. So I plan to keep going in to get healings. I mean my reaction to sugar is not that unusual - since I know from my research it is the qi energy neutralizing the free radicals from the sugar. I do think I am better from the healing I received yesterday. Still I use tea tree oil as a strong anti-oxidant. I know the qigong heailngs are expensive - especially for the 25% of the population in the U.S. making a poverty wage like myself. But still - just think how mind boggling amazing it is to be able to experience something like this - a laser bliss love energy without anyone even touching you. I have had 15 years of experiences with the qigong masters - or at least going back 15 years. Actually the first qigong master I experienced was 20 years ago. Still - I have seen some amazing post-life things like ghosts and yin spirits and precognitive visions and pulling someone's spirit out of their skull and healing people - strangers thanking me, etc. So the main practical advice from the qigong master was that I should make sure to keep my shoulders lowered down when I meditate as this will help to bring my energy down in my body to center it. Other than that - I was in full lotus when the qigong master entered the room where I was waiting for him and he just said - oh just stay that like, that's perfect. haha. I know the qigong master can see inside my body, etc. I know it was 15 minutes of healing - but again it was a very amazing experience. My dreams last night were much more vivid. I had this dream about how if I could see all my past lives then how did I not know that I was not seeing my future life also - like my present life is actually a vision of a future life being dreamt by a past life. haha. I mean I have had precognitive dreams come true many times - in great detail - which just shows that our present awake state is also a type of dream. So why not my whole life as a type of dream from a past life? All I'm saying is I've had a lot of people contact me over the years about qigong with me posting about it online. There's no substitution for just actually experiencing the energy of the qigong masters. I know there are other qigong masters out there - the first qigong master I experienced was Effie P. Chow. I have not got a personal healing from her but she did fill the room with qi energy back in 1995 and had us make qi balls and I could feel a strong magnetic force pushing my hands apart. Then she blew the fuse in the room behind us, as the security guard who wandered in wondering what was going in, informed us. haha. Also I've very thank for the previous healings from the other qigong master who cleared out other blockages for me to help purify me to see the original qigong master again.

The Mandukya is very powerful. The process of inquiry automatically seems to result in recognizing the awareness that underlies the three states. In my case experientially, it resulted in many days continuously of being completely aware through dream and deep sleep state (though it is hard to articulate what that is like as the mind is not active then -- just a knowing of being). Of course Advaita Vedanta often relies on yogic techniques. One such is yoga nidra (yogic sleep) -- Swamiji has a video (on his channel) in which he walks us through the process of yoga nidra.

Thanks Cedar Tree that was a timely message that really resonated for me. my dream life has had enormous revelatory power in my process. I often these days walk about anticipating that I will spontaneously awaken in the 'real' world in the same manner I become lucid in my dream world, nightly.

he isnt spot on as HE didnt write it . he lifted it from here ; https://sebpearce.com/bullshit/ EG, Today, science tells us that the essence of nature is knowledge. You and I are dreamers of the infinite. By summoning, we dream. If you have never experienced this source through non-local interactions, it can be difficult to heal. Our conversations with other beings have led to a maturing of ultra-angelic consciousness. We are in the midst of a Vedic refining of faith that will align us with the quantum soup itself. Reality has always been full of lifeforms whose hearts are opened by inspiration. Who are we? Where on the great circuit will we be reborn? We are at a crossroads of potentiality and turbulence. Throughout history, humans have been interacting with the quantum cycle via bio-feedback. You may be ruled by illusion without realizing it. Do not let it sabotage the truth of your circuit. Stagnation is born in the gap where complexity has been excluded. Where there is desire, intuition cannot thrive. Imagine a condensing of what could be. We exist as bio-feedback. The goal of supercharged waveforms is to plant the seeds of aspiration rather than dogma. To wander the vision quest is to become one with it. https://sebpearce.com/bullshit/ .... and so on .

The suffering is not real. It's a dream and we mistakenly consider the dream to be real

Wang Liping in his Dragon Gate book and Chen Tuan both experienced this, when in dream state meditation, they were taken by a green woman who brought them into a private chamber for learning to understand what the TTC actually meant as too many commentaries and scholars from both established schools and self-taught idiots were no closer to truth and understanding what was actually said than someone's finger on earth is when believing that they are pointing towards Alpha Centauri but upon closer inspection is pointing at Mercury.

If you have never experienced this metamorphosis devoid of self, it can be difficult to dream. Have you found your path? Traveller, look within and inspire yourself. We must ground ourselves and ground others. Soon there will be a blossoming of nature the likes of which the solar system has never seen. We must learn how to lead spiritual lives in the face of discontinuity. We are at a crossroads of hope and materialism. Our conversations with other adventurers have led to a refining of pseudo-transformative consciousness. Throughout history, humans have been interacting with the biosphere via chaos-driven reactions. https://sebpearce.com/bullshit/

So you are dreaming that you are suffering and not knowing that you are dreaming makes the suffering "real". If you were to realize that it is only a dream, would you continue to suffer? In my experience, realizing the dream-like nature of our waking world really neutralizes the suffering. Sure body will continue to feel pain as long as it is there, but it is not suffering (as in anguish and torment). We create our own suffering through our misidentification.

2 days ago I had a dream about ma Kali. Oddly enough it was on the day of navaratri which celebrated her. The experience was thrilling. Can anyone share insight into what this experience could mean/ similar experiences which they have gone through. How can I willingly commune with her when I want to?

heya peeps, i thought i'd throw this one on the buddhist board as this is very much the context to my practice/teachings. i thought i'd seek some input about something that seems to have happened lately, see if people here can offer an explanation to what might be going on. i've had teaching on a few retreats and started training in meditation throughout the past year or so. additional context is that i sought this out having been struggling with chronic illness for many years (late 20s now). the dhamma provided all the answers to what's been going on, how to start to correct this stuff and even clues to 'interesting' childhood experiences. i have a lot of unwholesome kamma/energy so it's a slow process wearing away the conditioning - the root cause of my sickness (autoimmune in nature). however it's progressing nicely via a body parts healing meditation, a very powerful practice indeed. i've also been lucky enough to receive dhamma from a fully realized teacher, transmission, etc, which is absolutely mind blowing stuff. anyways, i was at a sweet spot when i started getting into the healing meditation a couple of months ago. there was a point where i was getting decent awareness throughout the body, but not too much or with so much chi that the deep stuff was coming out and pressing my buttons. i was able to get really settled just abiding, always a pleasant experience for someone as disorganized as myself. i was also getting a lot of awareness while asleep, remembering dreams in lots of detail and on one occasion experienced a lucid state where the dream world was totally luminous, light shining out of everything. i was more present that i'd ever while awake and my field of awareness was infinite, though i quickly got excited and snapped out of it. it seemed to be around that time that things changed something happened to the 'field' in the waking state and things have remained that way ever since. it's not worrying or anything, just very curious as it's is now a permanent thing. the best way i can describe it is that the field is much broader (kind of like in the lucid dream but not that expansive) but at the same time much more focused. it's particularly noticeable when walking along corridors or walkways with walls or something on each side. it's like a tunnel effect and really cool. there's something about walking down long narrow corridors which really amplifies the effect of whatever happened to the field. i'm sure people will know what i'm talking about. there's also something else where if i focus on something, particularly if engaging another person, that the entire background kind of goes out of focus and i'm totally locked into them or it. it's really strange and again very cool, i had only previously had this experience when receiving transmission from the teacher. i'm also more sensitive than before, though i already have too much of this and barely any equanimity, hence getting into such a mess. moving into other peoples energy field is more noticeable and it's easier to be aware of how that's interacting with my own. certain people also give off a 'special' energy and that's something i was aware of as a child. so, meditators, can anyone offer an explanation of what might of happened that triggered the change in the field and why? it did seem to happen around the time of the lucid dream experience and that's probably not a coincidence. likewise, i'm sure the 'field' will open up and change in a myriad of ways as i progress further into healing, the practices and living in alignment with the universe. especially after such a long time of trying to bend it to my will and breaking the rules!

You could take just one lesson and see how it suits you. Five Dragons Curled Up is the main sleeping method that uses fetal respiration, which I would recommend for trying out the style. Of course, you could try just about any other lesson I indicated above although some of them are intermediate and not beginner skills. The point of all yogic sleep is to train in dreamless sleep. Shuigong isn't any different: astral travel and dream work are just expedient means to work on your karma from a different angle and help others. Shuigong teachings help overcome all the typical issues associated with astral projection. Yin shen and yang shen are both cultivated, but the emphasis is on yang shen because that's the alchemy. The shen bodies are complementary achievements anyway, so why worry? Please note that if you asked Sifu Dolic about these, he probably wouldn't use technical language. He likes to speak from direct experience instead of any theory.

Good question, thank you for asking! There are different practices named Shuigong and most seem to really be like you call adjuncts. You could ask Sifu Dolic himself about what's exactly included in his lineage teachings, but I'll give you my opinion. The style offers ethical exhortations, insights into sleeping hygiene, instructions how to make sleep into meditation and traditional and modern science behind it, teaching to interpret dream types and how they relate to psychic powers, instructions on karmic work in dreams, an unique take on lower dantian training, third eye and middle dantian training leading to the creation of astral body and seeing auras, a powerful and simple sleeping meditation through fetal respiration, a few supplementary exercises for different special needs such as recovering from ejaculation and keeping the body fit, a unique and powerful MCO (which you will not find it elsewhere) and an esoteric weather manipulation method with it, many healing techniques that are safe and easy to learn, methods for making astral travel safe and meaningful, instructions for accessing the sound of Dharmata, and some other stuff lurking in the advanced level. This type of depth and cover for Daoist alchemy simply isn't openly taught anywhere else. Many of the methods would be secretive in-door teachings for selected students in other schools. He teaches classes also in Australia. There is a group tuition price available, but it's about the same now that he has slashed prices for online tuition anyway. I would remind that these are in Australian dollars, so it's not so expensive for many people as it might seem. Sifu Dolic has also repeatedly said to me that he is always willing to repeat the paid lessons without charging again if the student needs further pointers. In my experience only few teachers are as generous and accommodating as he is.

When I was a boy I had dreams of men wearing white robes teaching me. One of them was a black man. This was odd because where I grew up I only saw black people on TV. If I am not mistaken he told me his name and that he was Noah of the bible, but that was not his name. I was 7 or 8. This dream was but one in a series of lesson dreams where in the dream spirits came to me, that were dead, and taught me to prepare me for life. They told me I would forget most of what they taught until the time was right. Once I had a dream when I was 11 or so, a man appeared in the dream and told me his name, I looked it up later and found out he was a dead man. He told me things about my life which later came true. I had never heard of the man before that i can remember, which is interesting. I still have no idea what to think about these dreams. Given my childhood they could have easily been related to my environment. However I do not know where elements like names would have come from. I can only speak for myself and say that I do not know the answer and I accept that. If they were teaching me, why when I was so young? Why not later in life? Why with lessons i could not recall? Why would a dead man contact me to teach me? A close friend of mine has received martial arts (bagua) corrections in a dream as well. I once dreamed (4 years ago or so) that I was challenged by a guard of a woman in a dream and having fought me for some time he stopped suddenly and awarded me a sacred staff like object which he was the keeper of. One thing is for sure, I awoke with a sense of purpose. Whatever the case, do not forsake or ignore your dreams. They have a meaning, where that meaning comes from does not matter so much as the meaning itself. Besides, who wants to hear that Noah was Black with blue/grey eyes and that his name was roughly phonetically translated as: Emanuel? It certainly wasn't anything I was ever taught in waking life.

Glad you mentioned Prajnaparamita as that body of work in the Mahayana canon has a big focus on Emptiness (Sunyata). I will answer from a Zen perspective and also borrow some writings from Shoryu Bradley of Gyobutsuji Zen Monastery. (Before I start this is a philosophical, experimental, and even (something) else topic. This is a topic you can't really touch with frameworks no matter how eloquent and tirelessly you write on it.) Emptiness is meant to convey the truth as you stated of anatta (non-self). In Mahayana this truth is taken deeper than simply that the five skandhas are not self (Theravada). In Mahayana there is the view that all things are empty of an ontological essence and so are in a sense only conceptual. Since they are only conceptual they are like a dream or an illusion. Diamond sutra: All conditioned phenomena Are like a dream, an illusion, a bubble, a shadow, Like dew or a flash of lightning; Thus we shall perceive them In the Tiantai school and the Huayan school they use the Prajnaparamita literature to understand deep aspects of dependent-origination. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_philosophy Scroll down to the bottom You are going to have to also start understanding Trikaya thought. Thankfully some of the Tantric traditions like Dzogchen & Mahamudra have a well framed ways of approaching this as a central teaching. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trikaya Scroll down till you get to those two. In general this a topic that bleads into a lot of other topics. The void aspect is translational but also has an experiential dimension. Imagine deep Jhana meditation were the body is let go of, the doer is let go of, the knower is let go of and one starts dismantling the mind. They realize the mind is beyond the body and go into a full existent state of space, they then realize space is empty of existence and find it is only consciousness that perceives space and so space as a dimension of mind is let go and the more subtle consciousness is the new object of meditation that becomes full being. Then consciousness is seen to be empty and "no thingness" is what one becomes. Then there is found to be a more subtle state of "neither perception nor non perception". Then this is found to still be subtle aggravation and not true peace and so "cessation of perception and feeling" happens. Then you awaken to what is on the other side when all things are truly let go of. This could be said to be the void or nirvana though I am not at a level to maybe talk about those realities. This is the deathless. The unconditioned.

Don't worry I am aware of the differences between geometric dimensions (mathematical dimensions) and physical dimensions (timespace), but thank you for bringing that up. I don't dream much at all anymore. I have not dreamed for almost a year that I can remember. The last dreams I had, which are few(3-5) over the last years(5), were all lucid though. But honestly I have never really dreamed much, so I do not think it has anything to do with Hun and Po in my case. It is just the way I am still I have dreamed much less as an adult than when I was a child. Now I have some other strange thing happening. I have dreams that never occur. For example I had a dream that my taiji teacher came back to my town, in the dream he came back because there was no economic opportunity. The funny thing is, I remember the dream, but never had it. It just appeared in an instant, it was not at all related to sleep, one moment it was not there, then it was. And the part that interests me is when i spoke to him on the phone, and he told me he was moving back. I told him of my "dream" and it was totally accurate. I know nothing about what you spoke of about Hun, Po and Shen. So do not know how this relates to my experiences. It sounds interesting. I define awake and dream in a rather scientific way. Wakefulness relates to exogenous sources of sensory information, dreaming relates to endogenous sources of sensory information, ergo memory. I have no belief in these things: souls and subtle energy bodies and subtle energy realms. I have no belief against them either. I have a different view of the action of DMT than you do.

from http://www.hypnogenesis.com/drwier1.htm Sort of a long article, but I think worth the time to read and understand for just about everyone. Our Unconscious Trance States by Denis R. Wier, Director of the Trance Institute. Most people slip in and out of various kinds of trance states hundreds of times during what is called the "normal waking state." Gurdjieff taught that to become aware that you are asleep is the first step in waking up. If you are interested in staying awake, it is quite helpful, now and then, to count your trances, just to make sure you haven't slipped back into unconsciousness. There are light trances, deep trances, short-term trances and life-long trances. There are pain relieving trances and pain producing trances. There are healing trances and pathological trances. I have been studying trance for the past 25 years and I want to explore with you just a few important areas where trances can be found: hypnosis, addictions, religions and work. So what is a trance? To many psychologists a trance is a state of limited awareness. Some psychologists would also characterize trance as a form of sleep, or dreamlike awareness or a kind of altered state of consciousness. Certainly trance has long been associated with hypnotic states, and with the altered states of consciousness of dervishes, shamans and yogis. Meditation does produce strong trance states. However, in my opinion, trance states are much more common than is normally believed. If the unusual trance state of a shaman or a yogi is desirable, then we might be tempted to believe that all trance states are desirable states. Hypnotic Trances The type of trance studied most has been the hypnotic trance. Milton Erickson, the great psychotherapist, had wonderful and nearly immediate psychological cures in a great many of his patients. His technique was called "Ericksonian hypnosis." Many people tried to explain what it was that he did, because in many cases, his patients claimed that they were not hypnotized and they were not in any kind of trance at all. Erickson's recorded dialogs were analyzed for years to try to find out what it was exactly that made his form of hypnotherapy so successful. Richard Bandler, John Grinder and others were successful in finally analyzing and modelling Erickson's techniques. They devised what they called "neuro-linguistic programming," also known as NLP, which is based primarily on Erickson's techniques. With NLP it is relatively easy to hypnotize a person and to keep that person in a trance state without their being aware that they are in fact in a trance. The technique of pacing and leading a subject from a rich or varied set of thoughts to a limited or impoverished set of thoughts is a technique used consciously by hypnotists, advertisers, sales people, preachers and politicians. Many stage hypnotists use Ericksonian or NLP derived hypnotic techniques in order to induce trance. TV hypnotists on daytime television can induce a trance after only a few minutes of seemingly innocuous talk. During this time, the subject can be given post-hypnotic suggestions to alter behavior and perception in peculiar ways during the TV show. Television advertisers and the designers of commercials are aware of the techniques of Bandler and Grinder and use them often in commercials. The trance-induction potential of television media is well-known and is often used for manipulating consumer tastes. However useful television is for commercial and social control reasons, it cannot be reasonably argued that promoting an impoverished reality is, in the end, really socially beneficial. Salespersons, preachers and politicians are aware of NLP techniques and often consciously use Ericksonian techniques in order to promote their own agendas. As you talk with a salesperson or listen to a preacher or politician you might never admit that you were in a trance of any kind. Have you ever 'spaced out' listening to a preacher? Politicians? Computer software salespersons? Some professional sales training institutes unabashedly teach hypnotic techniques to their sales trainees. It is clear to them that if a buyer is put into a hypnotic trance then it is much easier to sell a product. Because the ethics of using such techniques on the unaware is questionable, some states have laws that give you the right to cancel a contract within 24 or 48 hours of signing. Supposedly, this gives you time to "wake up" from your unconscious state. So how can you tell if you are in one of these ordinary, unconscious trances? You are in a trance when your attention is limited and there is a certain repetition of thoughts. In an extreme case, your attention is so limited that it feels like "tunnel vision." The repetition of thoughts might be mantras, songs, repeating fantasies, or even the math calculations of balancing your checkbook. That song you can't get out of your head indicates a trance. Concentration, when the mind is focused on a specific problem or thought, is also a form of trance. You could characterize trance cybernetically as an awareness loop, or a circular flow of consciousness. Repetition of mantras, the whirling of dervishes, the chanting and drumming of shamans, the repetition of TV commercials all induce trance by limiting your attention and overloading your mind with repeated thoughts. The purposes may be different, the results may be different, but in my opinion the difference in trance is mainly of degree. Once your mind is flying around in a tight loop, at some point you become used to this tight loop. You can also say that you have learned the loop. At that point, you might have the feeling that you can think ordinary thoughts even though another part of your mind is still flying around in this tight loop. The part of you that is the conscious 'you' is the observer of the 'you' that is the automaton flying around in this endless loop. The conscious 'you' is actually in a trance even though you feel perfectly conscious. Here's why.... Normally, you have certain cognitive abilities such as the ability to remember things accurately, the ability to make judgements, you are generally aware of your body if you put your mind to it, you are alert to your surroundings, and you generally are not observing yourself doing things, you are doing them. These cognitive abilities draw on our energies. When we learn new things, learning means that we can do it more efficiently. That means, we don't need to put all of our energy into maintaining what we have learned. At the same time, doing something by habit does take some cognitive energy, which leaves our conscious mind a bit short. Particular types of loops will absorb greater amounts of our energy, leaving our conscious minds relatively disabled. When we let our mind go in a loop, and then allow ourselves to step away and observe, the observing part may actually not function at full capacity. That means, your memory might not work so well, you may not be able to make a judgement, you will probably be much more self-observing, you may not be aware of your body, you may not be aware of your surroundings so much because of fixed attention. You might even hallucinate. Some psychologists call this trance logic. What is interesting is that this dissociated or trance state is often combined with rewards. That is, we are generally encouraged to go into trance even though this state results in a somewhat disabled mental condition. Whether you are passively watching TV football, or engaging in rational rigorously precise thoughts, or having an emotional jolt of religious fervor, or feeling patriotic passion, or if you are an addict of any kind, or if you have the compulsive mindset of a mass murderer you are in a trance. Why? Because all these states encourage a fixed, narrow attention span and they all reward the repetition of an impoverished set of thoughts. Most of the above are pathological trances, that is, over the long term they will produce pathologies. It is well-known that when you are in a trance your attention can be diverted effectively enough to produce anesthesia sufficient for dental work or some types of surgery. Lamaze natural childbirth breathing techniques uses the resulting narrowed span of attention to help reduce pain. This narrowing of attention, the concentration of the mind on maintaining the breathing patterns, diverts the attention from the physical pain sensations during childbirth with the result that the mother becomes less aware of any uncomfortable sensations. The power of a mind in a trance can do things which it ordinarily cannot do. Giving birth painlessly is only one example. Trance can also be used to reduce psychological pain such as anxiety, fear, worry, as well as the universal Weltschmerz. Instead of consciously addressing the causes of the pain, trance can successfully divert the attention so that one is aware of neither the pain nor the causes of pain. Hypnotic trance is only one way to remove pain. Alcohol, drug, religion, work, consumption, and TV trance addictions can also be counted as other ways of removing pain. I believe addictions of all sorts are forms of pathological trance. Pathological Trance States and Addictions Addiction can be better understood if we think of it not merely as "substance abuse," or performance addiction, but as a form of an impoverished reality that is maintained by a pathological trance. Limited awareness, tunnel vision, the special characteristic that identifies a dysfunctional, impoverished reality, also identifies a type of pathological trance state that may be also a characteristic of all addictions. If you really want to get into a pathological trance and stay there, here's a general recipe. First, you must impoverish your reality by removing all distractions and limit your awareness to a single, or at most a very few objects of attention. This narrowing of attention can be helped along by the passions inspired by drugs, trauma, by joining some religious or political movements or by staying at home and watching a lot of television or computer screen. It would be a good idea to get rid of distractions like kids, magazines or books -- especially books that give you options or make you think about other possibilities. Second, you must convince yourself that all options -- other than your chosen perfect ideal, of course -- are "evil" and every attempt that your monkey mind makes to have variety must be crushed and that you must keep your mind "pure" and only allow thoughts about your chosen passion. This mental trick will serve to concentrate your attention firmly on the object. Controlling Your Addictive Trances Start at any place in your addictive trance. Addictive trances reward an impoverished thought-set. You can help reduce any addiction by rewarding the enrichment of your thoughts. This means to expand the variety of your thoughts without trying to remove the thoughts you think are the problem. Continue expanding and enriching your thoughts with new and stimulating ideas, people and experiences. When the variety of your thoughts becomes robust, ideas will be self-generating and the addictive trance will naturally cease to exist by definition. While pathological trances are not at all desirable, most people nearly all of the time are either in a pathological trance or are engaged in trying to get others into trance. It is precisely pathological trance, not the yogic trance, that permeates most of our waking reality. It seems to me that once we can identify these pathological trances on a personal level we can take steps to avoid them. If trance is defined as fixated thinking, then nearly all human activities create some type of trance. The bounded circles of thinking that keep us in trances are countless. The entire "ordered universe" is a trance. But there is an escapists pleasure in remaining in trance and a deep human fear of the chaos which can result if there were no trance "order" to life. Socialization itself is the process of putting a person into a long-term trance. You do not go to work naked because of socialization. The socialization process started by parents and continued by religious training, schools, universities and employment in different ways all create a multiplicity of long-term trance-states, the result of which puts you in a bounded circle of limited but socially acceptable activity. Without these long-term trances your life would be more chaotic and perhaps you would be more painfully aware of too many choices. Every choice we make limits our options and makes life seem more manageable. When we stick to our choices at all costs we are in a pathological trance. Perhaps the most important aspect of pathological trance is that it creates an unawareness or a "sleeping state". When your thoughts are limited in variety and your attention becomes fixed, the fixation alters perceptions, can create dream states, visions and hallucinations. In this sleeping state you are unaware of new information. Entranced by the street magician, you are unaware that the pickpocket has removed your wallet. The pathological trance state can create illusions which do not exist and cause the failure to perceive what does exist. On the other hand, the trance state of a yogi can be a tool to illuminate what is not normally perceived. Religious Trance There are religious healers who, by means of their special meditative trances, can perform healings in others. Such healers may certainly be envied for these powers. Yet, unfortunately, even meditative trance states can become pathological trances if they become an end in themselves. By knowing how to identify pathological trances it may be possible to avoid them. Like any other trance, religious states of ecstasy can be created by narrowing ones perception to the religious object. Second, every attraction that would draw you away from the adored and worshiped object must be seen as an impediment in some sense. Third, all rational and ordinary thought can stop. When this is accomplished, the only content left in the mind are the artifacts of the religious object, and this, and the resulting perceptions, is what the supplicant may appreciate as "religious ecstasy." So long as the ecstasy does not become an end in itself these trance states may be very valuable. Proselytizing religions often use methods that will induce trance. Peer pressure, confessional types of testimonials, sense deprivation, lack of contradicting testimony, hysteria, hyper-emotionalism all contribute to constrain awareness and to increase suggestibility. Suggestibility continued over time will give rise to hallucinatory trance states. When combined with the rewards of stress release, the trances become pathological and addictive. Religious fervor, as a state which feeds upon itself without end, is also quite definitely an addiction or a pathological trance state. The concentrative force of trance can also block out any sense of compassion for humans, and can be itself the basis for unimaginable cruelties. Religious addiction often carries with it an intransigence and intolerance of different points of view that can be as dangerous as a drug addict with a loaded gun. When religious fervor is combined with the rule of law and armed with deadly force, religious addicts effectively stop the evolution of a better type of human being. Trance in the Workplace The person who can put long, continuous hours at a difficult job may only be capable to doing this if in a trance. The pleasures of an engaging job can produce feelings of timeless states. Repetitive jobs narrow the attention to only the work at hand. Part of the mind is engaged in the job, but another part of the mind is free to dream. The dream-state produced is exactly characteristic of trance. In this dream-state, the work is being performed, but the worker is not necessarily aware of working. He may be visualizing a beach, having sexual or power fantasies or other hypnoidal and hypnotic dreams. The worker seems awake, but is really in a trance of reduced awareness. Work addicts are almost revered for their devotion to the duty to work. Calvin and Zwingli have convinced entire societies that the person who works and makes money is closer to God and has most assuredly has an eternal lease in one of heaven's plushier communities. Employers love work addicts because of this devotion which so enhances profit. Work addictions are not limited to any one particular industry. As a professional computer consultant, I have seen how some employers shamelessly exploit willing computer programmers who are addicted to computers. Trance in the work place makes it easier to control information and employees. If an employee only does the job and knows neither what others are doing nor how they do it, that employee will never become a threat to the owners of the business. One presumes - falsely - that the owners of a business would be the only ones who would be aware of what their business is really doing. Yet, owners are themselves in trance and many times keep their attentions on the "bottom line." They, too, may not be aware of the social or environmental impacts of their business. Unfortunately, one of the disastrous side-effects of most trances is that they not only inhibit awareness but also they disable communication. One cannot communicate what one is not aware of. The most serious social side effect of pathological trance is the reduced awareness and disabled communication. Communication of information is critical for any system to function. Human systems as well as computer systems, ecological, biological, political and social systems and more all require clear, accurate, timely communication of information in order to function. The lack of clear, accurate, or timely communication between individuals is the basis for misunderstandings, disappointments, hurt feelings, resentment, and violence. The human, economic, agricultural, industrial and social systems that rely on people who are in pathological trance has disastrous consequences. Pathological trance is unfortunately almost universally encouraged within business organizations. The more an employee can with single-minded determination execute the orders and policies of his organization, the more that employee is rewarded, promoted and respected. Single-mindedness, however, is a pathological trance. And trance always implies that there are areas where the employee is "asleep", unaware. When organizations encourage trance in their employees, and since trance disables communication, then there can be no wonder why there are so many system dysfunctions in the world. When, unlike a yogi, we do not choose our trances, and we are unaware of the types and nature of the pathological trances in our lives, then there are things we are unaware of. What we are unaware of causes more human suffering than the sometimes painful knowledge of the truth. One goal of a robust and magical life is to be as aware as possible of our options. When our unconscious pathological trances cripple our options the result is often disaster and tragedy in our personal lives, our society and in the environment. Dennis R. Wier is the Director of The Trance Institute and author of the book 'Trance: from Magic to Technology'. (HB: ISBN 1-888428-37-6 / Pb:ISBN 1-888428-38-4) The Trance Institute, inc. Sunnehaldenstrasse 7, CH-8311 Brütten, Switzerland Tel: (++41) 52 347 10 08 Fax: (++41) 52 347 10 09 E-mail [email protected] Web site http://www.trance.ch

First, to say the soul doesn't exist is generally coming from the idea that nothing exists in a permanent way, but even that doesn't say things don't exist, just that they are constantly changing. You exist in your dream even thought the dream is false. The fear you feel in a dream is real even though the dream is false. Once you realize you are dreaming these things might disappear, but this debate is out of place in the current discussion, I think. Second, "soul" is an English word and can mean a dozen different things from other traditions which are all different. The question here was not so much about those things. So what is the "soul" in question that one is to get in touch with by art, music, etc.? I can say from experience, that after a good music session, it's like being re-situated on an internal compass. Playing music can you through some intense feelings while you are still "the observer", the musician who is playing them. It can make you more comfortable with everything that goes on inside as you have rode the highs and the lows and know the difference between the highs, the lows, and YOU, the musician playing the guitar or drums or whatever. If you get too far into them you will not be playing anymore, so you learn how to ride them without getting yourself lost in them. When you can do this, it is easier to know "that is feeling, this is me," as one way of looking at it. This is "soul" as it is the actor, and it is authentic. It knows the difference. It knows where it is inside the feelings, memories, plans, obligations, etc.. When you go dancing or do anything that leaves you with this, you know where you are and you know where you're coming from, you're are getting in touch with the "soul."

Okay then , we all live in different worlds I suppose . I have spent over 30 years here helping people either visiting, setting up camp, staying longer or even settling here ; from negotiating the local community mammalian politics through to sticking poles in holes and bolting the wood together , helping with kids , etc . It often gets spat back in my face ..... meh , learnt to live with that . What I find more frustrating is this scenario ; " I got set up here (and them being present can see what a great place it is ) with virtually nothing . my community share which gives me the right to have a house site to build and live on cost $10 ... I bought the previously personally owned cabin and infrastructure on a site for $8000 . I have lived here in paradise 'living the dream' for over 30 years . I dont see why YOU should not have that experience to if you ant to have it . Here is how you need to negotiate through things to get that . " But 95% of people do not want to listen ... they want to do it their own way .... and it fails . I have noticed 2 divisions in peoples make up in this area ; 1. those that need the long path (that often leads to failure ) of 'learning by their own mistakes' (and often never getting the thing they wanted because all their time is used up repeating various failures ) . 2. Those that often learn from observation of others mistakes and methods (including what might have gone wrong with others methods and adapting them and changing ) and saving a HEAP of their own time and , sometimes, irreversible 'damage' .

funny... This morning, before I woke up, I had a dream about Jesus ( qualifies as nice/helpful person?) reading me a book about what Jesus actually said. And I was thinking, wait a second, Jeff actually told us about Gospels and I did buy one ( but did not read yet)... Given last night I was at the fire puja, perhaps there is some connection to my dream... but obviously my lands are more of cats' lands than buddhas:) gotta read the Gospel now...

And exactly why would Sean ban me again? I challenge you to openly state examples of behaviour which would lead me to my ban. You mean to say calling me names like shit and dumb would lead to nothing while gay alert would lead to my ban? Sure dream on. Btw no wonder you are only 1.7m tall.

@Taomeow You figured in my dreams last night, giving stock market advice of all things -- something I don´t imagine you doing much in real life. I asked if you thought we´d hit a bottom after yesterday´s big rally and you said no way, this coronavirus thing ain´t over yet. Well...that last part does sound like something I could imagine you saying. The market went up again today but I´m betting on the dream cat -- it´s not over.

Of course I haven't experienced anything, because 'I' is an illusion. I am not even experiencing 2 eye-balls reading this thread of yours. Experience? What is that? If we are going to stoop to the lowest degree of judging who has experienced what based on what posts, then by all means I refrain and hand you the torch and crown in that category. If there is One thing I would never do, is a judge a book by its cover No pedestal necessary. They are friends with tremendous amounts of time on their ends to figure out, through various means, what exactly the Truth is. If there is a cavity, one goes to a dentist, car trouble, a mechanic, to find the truth, to those who have found it. Buddha & Tsu seem to be on your pedestal No difficulties at all. Instead, freedom, home, Truth, the Now. Just like everything I thought is meaningless, so are all of your posts here and what you think. Just an illusory subjective bias. No biggie. The beauty of it is, that if Esoteric Christianity is a valid path to the Unconditioned, that it does not rely on your take of it. Stands of its own accord Same with Sufism, Kabbalah, Grace, etc Time? What is this thing you call time? Dream? Energy? I don't know You spent much time and energy attempting to hold together a reality that is merely a dream. Isn't that what you're doing? To kill the paths you "believe" to be false? Based on your beliefs? You spent much time and energy attempting to hold together a reality that is merely a dream. You spent much time and energy attempting to hold together a reality that is merely a dream. You've become that which you despise, a dogmatic fundamentalist. The outright paradox and oxymoronism of this situation is rather entertaining. Just like an eyeball cannot see itself, you've failed to see what you've become. I still love you though!!! Good luck with all the labeling of who's right and who's wrong! Cheers!!!!