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Not true. It tells us that all the concrete objects of awareness are disqualified from being sources of awareness. I've explained why so, so I won't repeat anything. So your "argument" is that because we cannot know if matter is behind awareness or not, let's just assume that it is. That's not much of an argument. Like I pointed out, even if we go with this assumption, we discover that matter is logically disconnected from the contents of awareness. If matter is what generates awareness, then it's not matter that you're aware of, unless the matter is self-aware. If you claim that matter is self-aware, then we need to get rid of the word "matter" and just call it mind. I don't make an argument from ignorance. I know awareness exists. I proceed from this knowledge forward, building from one known to another. I start with awareness, then I discover the nature of the concrete objects of awareness, then I conclude that such objects cannot be the source of awareness. At no point do I venture into an unknown or take something on faith. My own awareness is self-evident to me so no faith is necessary there. My only act of faith is to assume that you are as real as I am. I have no proof of this. Other than that, I make no assumptions. It's not an assumption per se, it's what I refer to "this is what I am willing to consider." It's a pragmatic consideration. If something is fundamentally beyond knowing I 1) don't bother looking for it, 2) do not include it into my considerations and 3) do not base my life on it in any way and relate to it as irrelevant. There are some things which are unknown right now, but which can in principle become known. These kinds of unknown are very important for me. The unknowns that are potential knowns are included into my consideration. Unknowns that cannot ever become known are not included. I don't operate on blind faith and don't recommend it to others. No. My argument is this: 1. I know what concrete objects are like. 2. Because of 1, I know they can't be the source of awareness. 3. Case closed. It actually makes no difference what the source of awareness is as long as I understand that whatever appears to awareness is not the source of it. From then on I am free. If the source of awareness is flurobompax or fetrof-complex, who cares? Simply understanding what happens within awareness is enough to lead a good life and to properly react to every possible occurrence with wisdom and fearlessness. I disagree. Logicians routinely discard considerations which are irrelevant and which only bring needless complications without enhancing explanatory power. An example of this is when the physics scientific community discarded the notion of ether. After a number of experiments the physicists realized there was no way they could detect ether. Since they couldn't detect it, they omitted it as a notion from the field of physics. I am basically doing the same thing when I am omitting matter. Concrete objects are waves because no concrete object is self-apparent. Instead all concrete objects are only apparent to the extent they are supported by a larger context. In other words, concrete objects are always smaller than the whole "thing." Awareness cannot perceive its own source. Awareness can only perceive objects. Objects are always related to awareness in the manner of slaves to masters, or children to parents, etc... objects are always smaller and always dependent on external-to-object context existing within awareness to be what they are. Because awareness can only perceive 1) smaller "things" than itself and 2) things awareness itself needs to be in a certain specific state to perceive, awareness cannot perceive its source. The source of awareness could not be a result of the function of awareness. In other words, the effect of awareness cannot be its cause. Concrete objects are all, without exception, fundamentally, in principle, effects of awareness. So an example of this relationship is fire and smoke. The smoke is an effect of fire. The smoke cannot thus be the cause of fire. Being an effect is a subservient, weaker position. You don't really understand my usage. That analogy was to distinguish crucial from generative. I was pointing out how something can be crucial without being generative. Once you agree that something can be crucial and yet not generative, you need to prove that the brain is not merely crucial for the world-perception to be what it is, but that it is generative. You cannot infer the brain as a source at all. If you think you can, then go ahead and try to infer it. I'll be here laughing and watching you fail. Whatever you observed in the movie would not be indicative of the true nature of the movie projector. That was the whole point of my example there. You're praying for a lucky meaningless coincidence that the movie projector will miraculously project its own function onto the screen and not just the movies plugged into it. It's not going to happen. Lets say that in this movie, there were images of many movie theaters, and every time the light was traced back, and there was another movie projector. This would not tell us for certain that the movie we were watching was the result of a movie projector, but we would have a good reason to infer that perhaps our movie is indeed the projection of a movie projector. I fail to see it. Sounds like nonsense. I can't even understand what you're talking about at all. Tracing the light? Movie theaters? I have no idea what it all means. You're losing it. This is not a good analogy in some ways, since we have no rays of light to trace back, but there are pieces of evidence that point to the brain as being the source of consciousness, such as changes to consciousness corresponding to changes in the brain. Right, I knew you'd talk about that. This is why I differentiated crucial-to-meaning from generative. For us the brain needs to be the way it is for the world as we know it to make sense. That doesn't mean the brain actually generates awareness. If you still believe in generative ability of the brain, you pretty much have to assume that ability without any evidence. All the evidence you have is that the brain is crucial to the meaning of what it means to be a human being in this realm. There is an impossible to cross logical chasm between "crucial" and "generative." I've had many dreams where I was shot straight into the brain, in the dream. Instead of permanently dying I simply woke up to find myself safe in bed. The physicalist explanation to this is that the "real" brain is in bed, while the dream brain is "fake". When the fake brain is shot in the dream, the real one is fine. Of course I can extend this line of thinking further. I can say this brain that's involved in typing this post is a fake brain. If you shoot me, my body will collapse from your point of view, but from my point of view, I will wake up safe in bed again. It all makes sense because during dreams we don't know our dream brains are fake. We only realize that after the fact. Personally, I am not really predisposed to feel that consciousness, or awareness arises solely, or even necessarily at all from the brain. If I were to say that it arises from matter, I would give it a much less localized source, and I am not all that inclined to assume matter in the first place. I am just asking for a logically valid argument that supports this predisposition of mine, and apparently, yours. I want something that not only shows that something is possible, but that shows it is far and away the most likely explanation. If it can't be shown logically, I am fine with that, but we should not pretend that we have airtight arguments when we do not. My arguments are as air tight as any on this Earth when it comes to awareness. I don't say this kind of thing often.

Well, usually they relate as organizing your core believes and realities in more solid ways. A nightmare would simply relate to the fear in a way that it makes the fear stronger and gives it a ground to stand upon, to grow and relate to your reality, so that it may grow in waking life aswell. Either that, or the dream completely takes away the fear. But usually the dreams are not the source of fears and triggers. It is usually a trauma formed in early childhood or some other traumatic event of which the memory is supressed. You can always identify the concept that is feared trough dreams and decide wether or not to alter its emotional effect on you. But yes, dreams do strongly relate to fears and instincts. In our dreams, we find our natural, primitive self. We witness our fear in its true form. Everything in our dreams is, in fact, us... The "fear" was put there by you. You connected the emotion to the idea during its birth, you are its mother. You run away in your dreams from this "fear" and it will always be there, because you cannot avoid that which is inside of you. You start to approach your "fear", in a lucid dream, and you can change your emotional relation to this idea, concept or thing you "fear". But it will not be easy. The moment you face your fear, all the concepts that this anxious emotion accumulated over your lifetime will start to pop in your dream and you'll have to face it all. It can be overwhelming at first, but with practice anything is possible. For example, you begin the dream approaching one spider, trying to hold it in your hands. Suddenly a whole nest of baby spiders pops up and starts frenzy on you. You remain faithful and continue your couragious act by defending yourself from the spiders with fire. Suddenly spiders crawl under your clothes and start to walk around in your mouth... Now in such a situation you either start to chew the spiders and drink some whine along with it, which would certainly deal with the fear once and for all, or you could completely panic, freak out, wake up and scream and jump out of the bed with spidy sensations all over your body.

Yan Hui asked Zhongni, saying, 'When the mother of Meng-sun Cai died, in all his wailing for her he did not shed a tear; in the core of his heart he felt no distress; during all the mourning rites, he exhibited no sorrow. Without these three things, he (was considered to have) discharged his mourning well; is it that in the state of Lu one who has not the reality may yet get the reputation of having it? I think the matter very strange.' Zhongni said, 'That Meng-sun carried out (his views) to the utmost. He was advanced in knowledge; but (in this case) it was not possible for him to appear to be negligent (in his ceremonial observances)', but he succeeded in being really so to himself. Meng-sun does not know either what purposes life serves, or what death serves; he does not know which should be first sought, and which last. If he is to be transformed into something else, he will simply await the transformation which he does not yet know. This is all he does. And moreover, when one is about to undergo his change, how does he know that it has not taken place? And when he is not about to undergo his change, how does he know that it has taken place? Take the case of me and you: are we in a dream from which we have not begun to awake? Moreover, Meng-sun presented in his body the appearance of being agitated, but in his mind he was conscious of no loss. The death was to him like the issuing from one's dwelling at dawn, and no (more terrible) reality. He was more awake than others were. When they wailed, he also wailed, having in himself the reason why he did so. And we all have our individuality which makes us what we are as compared together; but how do we know that we determine in any case correctly that individuality? Moreover you dream that you are a bird, and seem to be soaring to the sky; or that you are a fish, and seem to be diving in the deep. But you do not know whether we that are now speaking are awake or in a dream. It is not the meeting with what is pleasurable that produces the smile; it is not the smile suddenly produced that produces the arrangement (of the person). When one rests in what has been arranged, and puts away all thought of the transformation, he is in unity with the mysterious Heaven.'

You always use only the one true mind, but it gets obscured by beliefs. The brain is a hard one to overcome. Say you're dreaming and in your dream you have a dream body. Which brain is dreaming? If the dream brain, then how do you remember your dreams upon waking? If the waking brain is dreaming your dreams, does that means there is another brain elsewhere that's dreaming this life? If not, why the asymmetry? Investigate. As for the third eye, it's just a way to see visions. Do you want to see visions? First think whether or not seeing visions will improve the quality of your life. If you are convinced your life is lacking without the visions, then you can "open" it, but don't be in a hurry. To open it you have to understand how you see. What sees in the dream?

Hi Astral_Butterfly, do you enter into a dream state while in trance? like you will see a landscape and then can tune into it and it becomes a lucid dream? maybe its because of yin/water overload in head, you can become hypnagogic easily. How about entering trance outdoors in nature, well rested? or in a postion of where you are standing(a position where you are having a effort)? If also your awareness is in a body, have you tried to enter trance? Can you provide more diverse information about your trance and how you enter them and when it is easier t o enter and what days or circumstances you are not able to, please.

Yes, in Australia the aboriginal groups have land they fully control and they also have the legal right to access Government owned land under lease to mining companies, etc. Some of them are working toward self-sufficiency since some State Governments have decided they can no longer continue paying for water, power or phone-line access for the communities. Of course the politicians can find the money for their oversized salaries, superannuation and pensions. I have a dream of buying a few hundred acres of cheap land and randomly planting it with fruit trees and other edible plants and letting chickens run wild on it, as well as a big dam for ducks and yabbies. Then I'd build some small sheds around the place and then retire on it. Then I could just wander about, picking whatever was in season, scatter a few seeds, pick up a few eggs, catch the occasional chicken and yabby and sleep by a fire in good weather or the nearest shed in rain or cold weather. But I'd have to put a heap of money in a trust to pay for the annual rates and other Government expenses. I'd open it up to like-minded groups that want to do the same and hopefully start a new movement of people giving up a life of working for other people just to buy rubbish they don't need but everybody says they do; a life like Laozi and Zhuangzi describe. I live in a town where drug abuse and stupid violence are on the increase and I reckon a simpler lifestyle with less consumerism, and hence less money and more self-reliance, might just be the panacea. I also have a house on a few acres in a valley beside a creek, but unfortunately it gets two or three black frosts every July. It kills off the leaves of every plant and even the canetoads are snap frozen. That's not conducive to anything like self-sufficiency... Off topic, I know, but now that it's in writing my dream might come true, LOL!

Hi there Well for the most part of my life you could not say it was an escape as it happened spontaneously. I would sense something strange and automatically switch my state of consciousness. Mostly when sensing a presence in a house and trust me it was always accurate, up to a point where people were calling me to deal with presences they could no longer tolerate. For me, ordinary consciousness was an escape at that stage because my life became a living nightmare, literally. Whenever strong trauma had happened somewhere I would know all the details. I assure you I wished I could escape forever into "normal" life. It eventually toned down (those were my early years) Knowing what is out there and that it is virtually everywhere makes ordinary life comforting. When you speak about making something look real, think about what you view as reality. You know you had a dream and you say it is not real. Is that not a contradiction? You know for a fact that you experienced it. So where does it come from? Is there such a thing as the imagination when you are not conscious? Which thoughts are real and not real? If you did not invent it into being, is it not existing information? Even lucid dreaming has its limits. Some things are yours and others will not change no matter what you do in the dream. I am one of those people who believe everything is real so I am very careful of what I create and that is the value of halting thought when one can. That is also why not thinking can make me see or hear things. I create space for information that I did not invent so that what is truly there can be seen/heard. The more I silence myself, the more I hear my surroundings. I don't know where you draw the limits of trance, but for me being very still and mindful is the start of a trance. Like the state you are in when you relax on a rock in the forest and hear the birds sing. Nothing psychedelic but already enough to drift and forget your life.

I just returned from a retreat on sleep yoga. I've also had training in dream yoga in the past. Our dreams and sleeping patterns are a reflection of what is occurring in our daily life. A day filled with anxiety, stress, exposure to electronic media, violent news, and so forth means a night of expression of all of that input. A few tips that could help your sleep experience - Prioritize basic healthy living including adequate hydration, wholesome nutrition, regular exercise, breathing exercises. Consider integrating a daily meditation practice - practice upon awakening and prior to retiring to sleep. Throughout your day, take frequent breaks in whatever you are doing. Sit (or stand) comfortably and quietly. Connect with your body and allow it to deeply rest in its stillness. Connect with your inner voice and allow it to deeply rest, listening only to the silence from which it arises. Connect with your heart/mind and allow it to open, resting deeply in the open space that allows all possibilities. Do this as often as possible. Do it particularly anytime something stimulates any sense of fear, anxiety, irritation, or desire. The idea is that the more we are able to abide during the day in a restful, quiet place, the more likely we are to bring that to our sleep and dreams. All of the advanced sleep and dream yoga practices are recommended to be done in a remote, quiet, and isolated setting for this reason. As the evening begins to descend, pay careful attention to how you feel in your body and mind. Notice the natural onset of fatigue, the feeling that you've done enough for the day. Avoid the temptation to ignore that and keep pushing yourself to do, think, and say more. Let go of all electronic media and stimulation when that initial fatigue descends. Avoid eating after this time, avoid vigorous exercise, drugs, and alcohol. Allow yourself to gradually wind down and feel openness in your body, speech, and mind. Create a sacred place to sleep. Remove all electronic devices from the room, if possible. If not possible, put them as far from your sleeping place as possible. Maybe decorate the room with images that are loving, supportive, and evoke a feeling of comfort and security if that feels right. Light a small night light if that helps or burn a little incense. As you retire for the night, feel the support and comfort of the sacred space. Feel that there are beings or forces that are there to offer their protection and will watch over you throughout the night. This could be beloved ancestors, deities, goddesses, anything that feels right to you. If you are one for prayer, say a prayer before bed. Ask for help in clearing obstacles to a restful sleep. Ask that you may be blessed with clear and supportive dreams. Ask that you may be relieved of the trials and tribulations of the day so that your sleep may be rejuvenating. As you lay in bed, continue to maintain a feeling of prayer and resting in a sacred space. Generate a sincere feeling of inner warmth, contentedness, and gratitude. As the endless thoughts arise, notice them, know that they will still be there and can be attended to when the time is right, and remind yourself that now is the time for freedom and rest. Allow yourself to gently enter into sleep with a feeling of stillness, silence, and spaciousness. I think one of the biggest obstacles to restful sleep is carrying all of our daily baggage into sleep with us. The above are just some suggestions, modify them in whatever way works for you. The key is to feel open, protected, and to let go of the daily and worldly troubles as we enter that time of our day when we, to use a mundane analogy, recharge our battery and reboot the system. May you be blessed with restful sleep and pleasant dreams. _/\_

Some of your deductions were incorrect: "Change presupposes that something changes from one thing to another. This presupposes the law of identity." Things do not change. I explained this in a previous reply, but you are disregarding it. "A lot of people think that if nothing really exists, how can anything function? However, Nagarjuna said that it is precisely because everything does not really exist that everything functions. If everything were truly existent, existing in and of itself and thus being unchanging, things would not depend on anything. But then they could not interact with each other either because that entails change. Therefore, it is only due to everything changing all the time that interaction and functioning are possible." Thus whatever exists doesn't change, whatever changes doesn't exist. The rest of your deductions based on identity were also incorrect because they were based on the error explained above. Who is talking about the universe? The universe is not real... Again whatever exists doesn't change, whatever changes doesn't exist. Stop looking for the absolute within the dream. It's futile. This world, this life, this universe... It's a dream, time to wake up...

If you don't know what is substantial (as you yourself admit), then your judgment on what is substantial is based on a lie. It is true that these statements do not have a living context, because life is only real in your imagination. Your idea of truth is derived from experiencing the lower 6 senses - sight, hearing, smell, taste, touch, brain organ. If real is what you can feel, smell, taste and see, then 'real' is simply electrical signals interpreted by your brain. If someone asks you "Where am I" you are most likely going to point at her and declare "You are over there by the sign post", but remember, that is only an interpretation of light that occurs in your brain organ. The actual world you cherish does not exist outside. Therefore the fear you feel is not any different than the fear you feel during a nightmare. As for what is possible and what isn't possible - please start with this - What I know by experience I know, what I don't know, I simply don't know. Whatever you think is possible is derived from not knowing what's true, so it's not valuable. The only thing that's impossible is for lies to become truth. [today’s] therapeutic culture [says] “wait a minute. you’re saying there are higher potentials, so does that mean I’m lower? because that can’t be right”. All of a sudden it implied a judgment, and nobody’s allowed to be higher because that means someone else is going to be lower. And you’re not allowed to call anybody lower; therefore nobody’s allowed to be higher… So the Human Potential movement got derailed and was replaced by this therapeutic self-expression, self-acceptance movement.” Does that sound familiar? As for reaction, I'm quite familiar with this lie - please try to understand this - if something changes then it's not what you think it is, it's just changing. To start labeling processes as things is equal to start seeing faces in a flowing river. And reaction requires interaction, interaction implies change, thus whatever you think is reacting is not an actual thing. For a thing to actually exist, it would have to be still and unchanging. This contradiction between the senses and truth only shows that the lower 6 senses are incapable of recognizing truth, not the other way around. “if you could realize that there is no connection between your senses and the outside world, you would be liberated on the spot” -Baizhang, Eighth century Chinese Zen teacher. Thus an awareness should arise, an awareness that confirms you are living in a dream world. The only thing left is to decide whether you want to stay in the dream or wake up. Ponder on this until you understand it.

Very cool, thanks for telling the story. Eleven, wow. Your kundalini must have thought... let me guess... "what have you been smoking?.." I would never touch lab-made drugs, but I have to be extra careful with sacred plants too because I'm super sensitive. My first encounter was -- you won't believe it -- with belladonna, prescribed by a doctor in the old country in the form of eye drops. The doctor told me to drink a glass of milk with these, which was part of the protocol -- to detoxify the "side effects." I took the drops with me going on vacation, which took place somewhere where I couldn't get any milk. So the first night I used the drops, I was thrown into my first dream-vision, and have had them ever since, roughly once a year, sometimes once every couple of years -- in any event, the venue was established and the effects were permanent and blended organically into everything else that happens in my life -- which I know as a number of states of consciousness that have little in common with each other: ordinary waking states, extraordinary waking states, ordinary dreams, extraordinary dreams, and dream-visions that are in a class of their own. The first dream-vision I got courtesy of belladonna terrified me, and when I woke up I found myself in two worlds simultaneously -- the ordinary waking world was there, quite intact, but the vision world was also there, every bit as real. It was like that for as long as it took me to understand that I was supposed to make a choice -- which reality to commit to and which one to abandon. I chose the ordinary, and the other one immediately disappeared from my access (though never from my memory). Pretty educational for a 20-something with no religious or spiritual background whatsoever and nobody but atheists in four generations that went before. Some otherworldly power or other decided that the buck... er, the agnosticism... stops right there I guess.

That reminds me of what Phillip K. Dick wrote about in the original Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? that inspired Blade Runner. The world went to hell and the few animals that remained were signs of wealth and luxury, and many had synthetic imitations to show they had pets, as a foreshadowing to the Replicants for humans. McKenna is a fantastic mind and I can read his books and listen to his lectures day after day. I do not believe this is the kind of cybernetic world he imagined or the resurgence of the Divine Feminine he and Robert Anton Wilson spoke about, but I do believe that they both still hit upon it with frightening insight that we would do best to revisit before moving forward.

I don't really subscribe to a particular view of what occurs or is present after death and before life. I would like to share, however, that I have had experiences in sleep and dream that correspond quite accurately to states and experiences that are described by the Bönpos and Buddhists as occurring in the Bardo. While I still tend not to say I believe this or that about what is present beyond this life, I find it very interesting and compelling and it has reinforced for me the value of sleep and dream work in my personal practices.

Nice thread! Will read posts in more detail when I have time. My dream is to be a rock star...always has been haha. Though in recent years, I have also been fortunate enough to work in music/ent and also have an "I just do what I want" type of life. So 50% of the dream has been accomplished. Or maybe 100% of the dream has been accomplished. Being made a rock star isn't so much in my control, after all

Spit on his face and tell him to get outta the way !!!!!!!!!!! I never forget lucid dream many years ago where I had a vision of devil and remebered the saying : "If you turn your back to devil he will harm you , if you face him he will dissapear . " So I decided to face the devil that time in a dream , took a knife in my hand and stabbed him . If you are lucid ask yourself why and what is it that you are scared of (this can be done super fast as an energetic scan or mental enquiry )? Establish and remind yourslef who you are what is the situation occuring . Remind yourslef of impermanency of all things occuring . What is the name of your Fear ? Face it toroughly and let it go , do not keep it . If can let go and not identify with it , your vibrations will raise naturally and any notion of demons will dissapear . Dream/visions will dissaper with it too . Or alternativly try and wake yourself up .

I'd say experience is available. As consciousness is all-pervading, one has the potential of assuming any role, including that of being an instrument through which life seems to do its living... or dying. But even that presupposes an actual other living or dying apart from consciousness. Realizing the source of consciousness, is to be beyond knowledge and ignorance, departures and arrivals, life and death, experience and nothingness. The "I" which wakes from dream or sleep exists prior to the dreaming or waking experiences. That "I" declares it slept well within its source of not-knowing-ness. The direct experience that you are is indisputable. Being that from which this sense arises, is ineffable.

The dream like existence most likely came from the use of Nepalese temple balls which there appears to be evidence of use in Tibetan temples. Dream like happens real fast.

Lerner - what a fabulous video! Thank you! Bearded Dragon- the laws of physics, as man understands them, may not be the All in All. Aren't the most incredible discoveries (electricity, etc) often obtained from intuition, from dreams? Is it possible that there is a perpetual motion principle of which we are not yet aware, that involves no diminution of energy? I'm thinking it is maybe the difference between physical thought and metaphysical thought. The complete merger of the 'right and left brain' would seem to be the perfect balance to discover that which remains undiscovered. I have been reading this book for months, it is so complicated and wonderful. It is Morals and Dogma (of the Scottish Rites of Freemasonry) by Albert Pike. This is the most metaphysical and wonderful book I've ever read, I believe. I happened to come upon a paragraph last night which seems to fit in with what we're talking about here. It's in the 28th degree, starting on page 744. (Please keep in mind this was written in 1871, so it's not an easy read.) If Science has negated or expanded on some of these words, please chime in! Much of the basis of Freemasonry, as well as all world religions, is based on the Kabalah, as Pike maintains in the third paragraph: "No characteristic of matter belongs to Light, or Heat, or flame, or to Galvanism, Electricity, and Magnetism. The electric spark is light, and so is that produced by the flint, when it cuts off particles of steel. Iron, melted or heated, radiates light; and insects, infusoria, and decayed wood emit it. Heat is produced by friction and by pressure; to explain which, Science tells us of LATENT Caloric, thus representing it to us as existing without its only known distinctive quality. What quality of matter enables lightning, blazing from the Heavens, to rend the oak? What quality of matter enables it to make the circuit of the earth in a score of seconds?" "Profoundly ignorant of the nature of these mighty agents of Divine Power, we conceal our ignorance by words that have no meaning; and we might well be asked WHY Light may not be an effluence from the Deity, as has been agreed by all the religions of all the Ages of the World." "As truly dogmatic religions have issued from the Kabalah and return to it: everything scientific and grand in the religious dreams of all the illuminati, Jacob Boehme, Swedenborg, Saint-Martin, and others, is borrowed from the Kabalah; all the Masonic associations owe to it their Secrets and their Symbols." "The Kabalah alone consecrates the alliance of the Universal Reason and the Divine Word; it establishes, by the counterpoises of two forces apparently opposite, the eternal balance of being; it along reconciles Reason with Faith, Power and Liberty, Science with Mystery; it has the keys of the Present, the Past, and the Future." Enticing stuff, as I see it. So Pike continues a page later with a dissertation of the emanation of light, which seems to stem from the REMOVAL of the core, the Void created. I think the question is, what is the 'canal' or 'line' that he refers to in the last paragraph? Is this not the holy grail? Could that canal be the infusion of love, compassion, mutual attraction, gravity - the attraction of two objects to each other? After his paragraphs, I have included a synchronistic dream that came to me last night; actually, more of an image. (Capitalization is mine, indicative of the emphasis placed in the text - however my italics button isn't working, apparently) Also, when he speaks of ADAM KADMON, this refers not to the first man as enunciated in religious tomes, but rather of the IDEA of the first man. "When the Infinite God willed to emit what were to flow forth, He contracted Himself in the centre of His light, in such manner that most intense light should RECEDE to a certain circumference, and on all sides upon itself. And this is the first contraction, and termed TSEMSUM. "ADAM KADMON, the Primal or First Man, is the first Aziluthic emanant from the Infinite Light, immitted (sic) into the EVACUATED SPACE, and from which, afterward, all the other degrees and systems had their beginnings. It is called the ADAM PRIOR TO ALL THE FIRST. (Note from me: this would allow for the phenomena of evolution, IMO) In it are imparted ten spherical numerations; and thereafter issued forth the rectilinear figure of a man in his sephirothic decade, as it were the diameter of the said circles; as it were the axis of these spheres, reaching from heir highest point to their lowest; and from it depend all the systems." "But now, as the Infinite Light would be too excellent and great to be borne and endured, except through the medium of this Adam Kadmon, its most Secret Nature preventing this, its illuminating light had again to emanate in streams out of itself, by certain apertures, as it were, like windows, and which are termed the ears, eyes, nostrils, and mouth." "The light proceeding from the ADAM KADMON is indeed but one; but in proportion to its remoteness from the place of out-flowing, and to the grades of its descent, it is more dense." "From the word ATSIL, to emanate or flow forth, comes the word ATSILOTH or Aziluth, Emanation, or the System of Emanants. When the primal space was EVACUATED, the surrounding Light of the Infinite, and the Light immitted (sic) into the void, did not touch each other; but the Light of the Infinite flowed into that void THROUGH A LINE OR CERTAIN SLENDER CANAL; and that Light is the Emanative and emitting Principle, or the out-flow and origin of Emanation; but the Light within the void is the emanant subordinate; and the two cohere only by means of THE AFORESAID LINE." So it would seem to me that to find the same self-regenerative power (or energy that remains constant and doesn't diminish) would be to understand WHAT THE LINE OR CANAL IS that he's speaking of. I do maintain that it has something to do with love as being the ultimate generating force. Once found, maybe we could truly find the perpetual motion, the holy grail, without having to exploit and deplete our planet. Okay, so here's the short vision or dream I had last night. I was observing what appeared to be a fluorescent light - shaped the same rectangular way, with long tubes for bulbs, as they are. Only I knew in this dream that it was made by an ancient tribe, Mayan or Toltec. There were two holes in the terminal ends of the shade, however (where the inner workings of the lamp would be, as they are placed now). The void hole ran the length of the shade, one end to the other. Tightly wound around this long void was a crush of chicken coop wire, metal in composition. However, it was astounding to me that there was such a perfect long hole within he chicken coop - how did they get it so perfect? I asked. Someone explained to me that it was originally formed around a metal core, a rod, WHICH HAD BEEN REMOVED. (As the void was created in Pike's rendition - removal of the core, contraction in that particular case). I also noted that there were other insular factors, like perhaps another layer of something or other, maybe two layers, can't remember. But there were insulating envelopes of air, or spaces, between the insulating sections. But all was concentric with the void in the middle. I recall seeing no electrical cord, but the darn thing worked. Also, on the outside there were finger-shaped thin sheets of metal, curved in the same configuration to keep the form of where the rectangular shade would be on an actual fluorescent reflector/shade. I got the impression these were reflectors. So - getting back to the canal. Like Lerner said, if you think big enough everything is a huge perpetual motion device at the cosmic scale. Weren't there canals in the pyramids? Do we know what their purpose actually was, other than burial chambers? Energy generators of some type? Weren't they also leafed with gold, which could have served as reflectors? Doesn't it seem that we've unlearned more than we've learned over the ages? Or not.

regarding if 'the soul' knows the difference . let's just call the faculty the self, for simplicity. There must be some function in the self that allows it to distinguish memories of real events from dreams, games and fantasies . This faculty, at times, and in some doesnt work as well as it could . Usually, when we make a mistake , we can soon rectify it ; " Didn't I see Bill yesterday ? ..... < thinks > , oh no, that was a dream . " A friend of mine has it bad, and different , they have constructed their own version of some events that are just not true . I even explained it to them and they agreed, and came to agreement with me about what really happened . A year later they have slipped back into their old 'memory' . Programming . Thats what happens to us . We dont really learn deeply, unless its through programming or multiple sense recognition. People have been programming each other ever since modern HSS. We get evidence of it from the caves at Lascaux and onwards up to the preset day ; generally in what we call an 'initiation ceremony' - dramatic ritual, 'theatre' , noise, colour and image, repetition, physical actions and sensations, etc . all come together to make changes in the psyche . people have known this for a long time , basically, it is trying to emulate a 'life experience' , emulate something that happened in 'real life' , but in a way so that it sinks in, becomes part of the programme . Nowadays they use the same principles in VR / AR learning , they have discovered this is a super quick and efficient way of 'teaching ' and programming people . Playing a computer game for hours on end is very similar and the more bells and ribbons on it ; colours, flashing lights, sounds , 3D etc . the more effect it is . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_reality and when you get really good 'on screen ' ; https://www.defencejobs.gov.au/jobs/army/drone-operator

No Self Reincarnation; A Deeper Inquiry Looking at reincarnation from the deepest level possible reveals that no entity or self actually transmigrates. When asleep at night, the subconscious mind projects "you", your body, your thoughts, your sense of identity, your clothes, your emotional state and your actions. It also projects the dream landscape and all the cast of characters along with what they say and do. When "you" travelled from one location to another distant location in the dream, no "you" actually travelled or moved but instead the "you" was being projected as though "traveling" or moving. The landscape didn't pre-exist to travel through nor did "you". Likewise, our world landscape, our "self", body, thoughts, identity, emotions, clothing, and actions are being projected from a deeper level or source, like energetic holograms instead of being just dreamed appearances. This also applies after the "death" of the physical body. The entity we seem to be in the after-life or bardo is also merely a projection from a deeper source. If it is possible to slow down the projection to see the individual movie frames, one would see individual bursts of cognition that contain all the details of that momentary flash of consciousness. Between the flashes of consciousness as the movie content, there exists only emptiness. Then a micro-second later the next movie frame flashes forth with no physical connection to the last movie frame. But when these movie frames speed up it seems there is an unbroken continuity of a self in a stable and pre-existing environment. Seeing this is similar to seeing the empty space between your last thought and before the next thought arises. The individual thoughts in this case are the current bursts of cognition arising from emptiness. During profound moments mental stillness, this gap can be noticed. It's a moment devoid of content. Then the next burst of consciousness arises with a sense of self and its topic. That cognition ceases and the empty gap is all that remains. Then out of that empty gap the next sense of self arises with its topic. So you see there is no self continuing during the empty gaps. Seeing this its realized that no self exists, except as the momentary sensation of one that immediately vanished to be replaced by the next version of "me". The "entity" that seems to exist in the after-life or bardo is just this momentary projection as a burst of cognition of a "me" moment. But no "me" is existing before or after the micro-burst of cognition. Because of the rapidity of the micro-bursts of cognition, it seems like a stable "self" or "me" is continuing in time. Besides this false impression of a continuing "me", there is no other continuing identity as a self. There is no personal "you" at any time. For this to be known, the mind must slow down to the point of being able to observe the individual bursts of cognition followed by an empty gap which is then followed by the next burst of cognition. The mind-movie is now being seen as individual, separate picture frames of cognition. This is like being in a dark room and to swirl a lit incense stick rapidly in a circular fashion. To someone observing it would look like one circle of light. Slow the whirling and the circle disappears and only a single point of light can be found. Likewise the sense of there being a continuous self or "me" disappears when we slow the thinking mind down. All that remains is the empty gap and that empty gap can't be defined. It's our true nature as the empty creative Source. But it's not just a blank emptiness; it always reveals its infinite potential by the arising of the next burst of cognition. Seeing this is the wisdom prajna of self emptiness. Slow down the movie frames and the illusion of a continuous self disappears. There is no self, was no self, never will be a self to become enlightened or to die or to reincarnate or to be reborn! Since the micro-burst of a "me" self has no duration in time, how can't it perform actions that result in karma? And since that self disappeared in the same micro-second, who gets the karma? So how does practice benefit this non-existent self (without any duration)that doesn't exist long enough to practice or to do anything?

It's not incompatible at all. They work great together. My understanding of Adya's take on LOA is it's totally appropriate to engage in like the "Secret" talks about. The only real difference would be with awakening he says it's all seen as the dream state. Of course you may still want to have fun in the dream state(why not!) The real transfomation as I understand it-Ime not there yet-is with awakening it's no longer about "me, me, me" and "I want, I want, I want" because the "me" and the "I" are no longer center stage. Life moves you. But as Adya says when your still in the dream state LOA might be necissary and helpful stuff. In addition, the 10 commandments, Buddhist precepts, laws etc are all ways to make people in the dream state act correctly. It's all dream land/ego land stuff. Which is totally approporiate and helpful for all of us living in the dream state.

I think it's fair to say that playing Super Mario Brothers has contributed to my desire to eat mushrooms, climb into tunnels, and try to save princesses. Likewise The Legend of Zelda has beckoned me to traverse the fields and forests in search of enchanted items. Not just games but all works of fantasy e.g. by Jules Verne, J.R.R Tolkien, George Lucas, Shakespeare, Gilgamesh, for many, many generations. I love the idea that even experiences purely in a dream state can be just as formative as "real-world." I'd say even more so, in some cases. I see a major disconnect from this tradition in the gamer subculture that engages in multiplayer death-match first person shooter styles. The element of story and mystery is totally sold out in exchange for pure carnage, and cold, tactical predation. It's sad and a plague on the psyche and thus society.

Science says that energy-information is not lost but just transformed. So in science this is considered a random lost with a 180 degree shift in spacetime into a white hole. But science is an "external measurement" system inherently limited by "time-frequency uncertainty" or Fourier Uncertainty. Meditation instead is the "highest technology of all technologies" (qigong master Yan Xin) because instead of time-frequency uncertainty there is the Law of Phase Harmony in control (Louis de Broglie's most famous discovery - most important discovery I mean, as he stated). So yes there is a LITERAL spacetime vortex. This is described in chapter 11 of the book Taoist Yoga: alchemy and immortality. So I had this happen to me and I stopped my meditation and turned to a quest to discover the true meaning - unfortunately I did not read the book in detail - and that answer eluded me for 10 years!! So essentially when the Shen spirit leaves the body it HAS to be "covered" by Yuan Qi (a spacetime bubble). Even qigong master Chunyi Lin said that one time he did too much healing and so he experienced this same dizziness and so he had to have his advanced students teach Level 3 while he recharged his qi through meditation. So I call this the difference between General Relativity and Special Relativity - again using science as an analogy. So with special relativity you maintain a constant speed without acceleration - I think that's the basics of it. So this is the same as the spiritual ego maintaining Samadhi as Pranja or Wisdom awareness as is required in Mahayana Buddhism. So for example Poonjaji described creating multiple Yang Shen bodies - bilocation - read his memoir, "Nothing Ever Happened." He appeared at his birthday parties - multiple of his bodies - since his different students wanted him at their birthday parties. But Poonjaji was not consciously aware that he did this! He found out later. So in Mahayana Buddhism they require that the yogi remains consciously aware via the spiritual ego - so there has to be a constant "upgrading" of the light - like a strobe light - the light has to be turned around. This is called the Quantum Zeno Effect in western science. So you can then prevent the "collapse" of the wavefunction back into a linear spacetime direction with gravity. Instead you maintain the 5th dimension as nonlocal awareness being merged with the Light as spiritual awareness. So qigong master Jim Nance http://guidingqi.com described this ability well. So he said - I have his direct quote on my blog - but I'll just paraphrase - it is like maintaining a stable photograph. But while that stable photograph is maintained then the Emptiness as Energy does the Healing on its own. So you are relying on the Emptiness as the Yuan Qi spacetime vortex to do the perfect healing for you. So for example if you have a precognitive vision - this is a dream that is MORE REAL than being awake. But you still have to go "out of samadhi" back into left-brain dominant consciousness to then analyze what it means - in relation to your "current" time frame. Maybe you will do this - or maybe not. Or there is the example of the most famous Buddhist master of Thailand - Phra Acharn Mun. So in his free biography - it is described how his meditation buddy was levitating. But as soon as he realized he was meditation (his left brain consciousness becoming dominant) then his body fell back down. So he had to train to maintain his samadhi as awareness in right-brain dominance - by turning the light around. So like a strobe light - he recharged the light as a coherent frequency resonance - and so he was awareness as Wisdom prajna that he was levitating. But as Master Nan, Huai-chin points out - these spiritual abilities are all still tricks while the Emptiness remains the only eternal awareness - as Ramana Maharshi also points out. So the end of the Taoist Yoga book states that the Yang Shen then dissolves or dissipates back into the formless awareness - the cosmic Yuan Qi. So it is the Emptiness itself that DECIDES when a Yang Shen will appear or not. So the more a person meditates then the more their body EMBODIES the Emptiness - or as qigong master Chunyi Lin http://springforestqigong.com has stated - his body is just an Empty Vessel for the Qi energy. So as Jim Nance told me - he had to train to let the Emptiness do the healing - instead of his conscious mind doing the healing. This is the difference between Siddhis and Shakti as India yogis recognize. Or the difference between psychic energy (yin qi) and spiritual healing (Yuan Qi).

This is the first ive looked at this thread, and ive only looked at the most recent posts. From those, i see that The Dao Bums is alive, well, and kickin'! Of the few posts i just read. From liminal luke, ilumairen, sean, walker, nungali, manitou, ct, steve---the authors of those posts would make up a super mod dream team. Like walker reminded us of Word is bond. It certainly is. And World is Bond. That's my take and i know I'm not alone in thinking this world is for bonding. Forging unbreakable bonds that endure all this world can throw at ya. This type of bond looks out for each other, this way there are no weak links. These types of bonds shine eternal. For some of the best bonds found anywhere--we're in the right place. Right here on The Dao Bums.

So you believe in energy? You want to stimulate it and use it for your own purposes? Well, take a number then, because you're one among many. Only few people go beyond the need for energy cultivation. In case you want to play with energy, just understand the meaning of it, and you won't go wrong. First, what is energy? Energy is defined as ability to cause change. For example, if I raise a brick off the ground, we say this brick has potential energy. This is just straight physics. But it's important to understand this concept, because the language we use to describe phenomena is crucial. So the brick has some potential energy. It means that if conditions change, this energy will be released, and something will change as a result. For example, the brick will begin to accelerate, that's one change. We say the brick acquired kinetic energy. Then the brick hits the ground and it creates a dent in the ground, some sound and a tiny amount of heat. All that change is said to be the result of this potential energy of the upraised brick. This is kind of how we use that word, when we use it intelligently in the Western sense. Another meaning of the word energy is this -- it's a process that would take effort to stop. So for example, if something is flying around the Earth, like say, moon, we say it has a lot of energy stored in its motion. Why do we say that? We say that because we imagine that if we tried to stop the moon, it would take a lot of doing on our part. That's also known as inertia. Now when people want to practice energy, why do they want it? First of all, people don't believe their own intent has direct influence on the appearances. People believe that intent has certain rules or channels along which it flows. For example, I can intend to move my hand, because that's allowed by my deeply ingrained, semi-unconscious belief system about who I am, what is the meaning of me, etc. "Who I am" includes into it understandings such as "what I am capable of", "how I influence the world", "how the world influences me" and so forth. So, for example, I may not believe that I can intend my arm to fly off my body arbitrarily and lift something 300 meters away from my body. That's against the rules. And yet... people somehow still believe that something is possible that's not completely described by the conventional physics. They figure (wrongly) that like with other things, it's got to follow its own rules. So instead of trying to understand if the physics rules are true or not, or if they are habits of mind, people enthusiastically set out looking for these rules. And many many teachers are only happy to oblige. They say, "yes, I know the subtle rules... I know how you can achieve all kinds of uncommon and unconventional results using secret/subtle energy". And they tell you a story. There are many many stories. They are all different, but the stories that come from Eurasia tend to be similar (the stories in the Americas are very different, for example, and Kaballist view is at least somewhat different, if not very). The idea is that energy has to rise to the head and sometimes even out of the head and beyond. Another idea is that energy must move around, if it's blocked, it piles up and hurts. So without any critical thinking people enthusiastically rush forward, like madmen, to get their energy to rise quickly to the head! Or to get it moving around! OR ELSE! But if you study the nature of phenomena, invariable you will have to understand, eventually, that phenomena are empty of essence. In other words, that at the ultimate level nothing makes phenomena what they are, not even causes and conditions, that ultimately phenomena are inscrutable for the reason of there being nothing guaranteeing the stability of identities. And identities without stability are useless, ultimately. Because if the same identity means various things over time, even as you pronounce the sentence, by the time you're finished pronouncing it, its meaning is not the same as when you have started saying it. That's the implication of instability of identities. So when it comes to energy practice, the implication is that energy is not substantially real, nor is any other sensation. It's like a vision, or like a dream, or like the sunset seen by a blind man, or like the beautiful violins herd by the deaf, like the fur on the tortoise, or like the rabbit's horn. So, if you don't take energy seriously, and if you don't depend on it for anything of substance, if you just do it for fun and coolness and self-expression, then it becomes safe. Still, you need to check your beliefs first. For example, do you believe that energy has inertia? If yes, and most people do believe that, then do you realize that if you summon energy in your spine, it will take equal amount of work to get rid of it later when you discover you don't enjoy the sensation and that you've not been made wiser or more impressive by it? If you realize it, great! In order to check your beliefs, look at how you act, not at how you talk. If you say you believe that there is no such thing as inertia, but you act as if there is, you believe that there is. Belief is how you ACTUALLY LIVE your life and not how you talk. So to know what you believe, check what you ACTUALLY DO in real life. Don't lie to yourself, be honest, but do keep an open mind. Today's truth can become tomorrow's lie. Energy is moved by intent. So understand intent! How does intent work with regard to your own body and the world? First, the intent, within its scope, is miraculous. It works without the "how". For example I move my hands spontaneously. Sure, my movements are constrained by certain rules, but within the allowed freedoms, the movement is spontaneous. Which is to say, I don't produce intent to produce intent to move my hand. It's not a two step process. I don't even want to move it before I move it! I move it AS I want to move it. It's instant. Within the scope of intent the manifestation is instant, without rules, without steps, without explanations, without procedures of any kind. I call it the no-how (as a play on "know-how"). The true know-how is a no-how. So why do people spend so much effort on skills? That's because outside the scope of intent, things work according to rules. For example, if I want a certain change in the outside world, I must pull a lever, for example. My hand will, within its constraint, move miraculously, and I don't need to worry about that. But as I want to affect further change, I must interface through the self-imposed rules. The lever won't move itself unless I push it with my hand. Why not? Because that's how I set up the scope of my intent. Intent, intentionally, fractures itself into "within my intent and outside my intent". It can also intentionally de-fracture itself. When it does so, you won't need to follow any rules for any manifestation, because all manifestation will become like your body, and will move naturally, without you making special effort at it, as you wish. But people cannot believe that! So they work at energy. They think if they can project energy from their hands, they can heal or kill and so on. This is better than what physics allows, so it's like a tiny step forward in freedom. But understand the roots of your intent! Meditate on what it means to intend something. First, is intent yours or not or neither? Does intent have a start and a stop? Does intent have a boundary? How is the boundary maintained? Can it be proven? How? When you think this, slowly and quietly, feel it with your whole being. Move your hand as you contemplate. Touch the surfaces of things. Move objects. Watch intent. Does it have beginning or end? In what sense is it yours? In what sense is it not yours? Where is the boundary? What holds the rules? How do you know what is miraculous and what is normal? Or for that matter, how do you know what is normal and what is just rare? Don't just think. Feel. Reflect. Observe. Be. I just scratched the surface, but to summarize: Understand the nature of phenomena. Understand your own intent. Don't take anything too seriously. Don't become obsessed. Your health is not that precious. One good way to lose one's health is to become obsessed about it. Your life is not that precious. If you have to stay alive at any cost, that's the ticket to hell. Hell beings exist in conditions that would kill any being on this planet in a split second, but they don't die. Why not? They suffer greatly and yet what would kill you in .0001 second, doesn't kill the hell being. Why not? BECAUSE hell being CLINGS TO LIFE AND REFUSES TO DIE, no matter that their life is TRASH. They say, "I want to live, no matter what it means, even if it means my eyes are being gouged out." And the Universe, the mind, is happy to deliver, because at the ultimate level there is no good or bad. You want it? OK, you got it. No problem. There is no moral judgment from the Dao. If you want a seeming eternity of pain, you can enact it for yourself. If you want a seeming eternity of bliss, that's also possible. Just visions! Like having a good dream or having a bad dream is still a dream. To live happy you must be willing to die at the drop of a hat. Die early, die often. Die to the bad life. You have to be very very fragile. If you are very strong and robust, you will sustain a LOT of suffering before you die. But if you a fragile, even a tiny inconvenience will remove your field of attention from the phenomena that's causing the incongruence. So see? Sometimes being strong means being a moron. There is nothing to be proud of if you are strong. I am very strong, but I am not proud of my strength. It means I suffer unnecessarily and make trouble for myself. I don't have the strength to be intentionally weak. Lalalala.... Energy practice is a dream. You're not moving anything. There is no spoon. The rules you're working with are empty. If you keep this in mind, and just use basic common sense, it will be safe. Start of slowly, and if you don't like how things are evolving, just stop. What kills people is STUBBORNNESS. Like the person will get a bad sensation, but THE GURU SAID THIS IS THE WAY, and so the person will disregard their own body and mind and will rape himself or herself until they can't even live, and THEN they will consider that maybe they are wrong and the Guru is also wrong. But not until then. People have incredible pigheadness like that. They'll do the wrong thing until it kills them, and sometimes even when they are dying, they don't attribute their bad condition to the thing that's killing them, but blame everything around them. So listen to yourself. Listen to your body and mind and feelings. Pay attention. Respect yourself. Don't saddle yourself with something just because someone else said it was good. Inspect it. Is it good for you? Then do it. But don't do it based on mere hearsay.