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How did your paradigm, especially as it regards dream states (to keep on topic in this thread), arise?

Great .... now this , is 'a thing ' ..... now, apparently, anything can mean anything you want it to . It is the “The art of realizing meaningful coincidence in the seemingly mundane with mystical or esoteric significance.” or even ; " multi contextual research " ..... research ! ! ! ? . It used to be an obvious sign of confirmation bias We seen a bit of this happening here . http://realitysandwich.com/1377/the_cryptic_cosmology_synchromysticism/ " The synchromysticism research Jake Kotze publishes on his websites include information-dense videos, artwork and articles punctuated by images illustrating various mystic/pop culture linkages. His articles and videos usually focus on esoteric symbols or memes (possibly stemming from a collective unconscious mind) reoccurring throughout a wide range of sources, especially mass media. Such symbols include numbers, words, archetypes, shapes and various visual motifs or patterns such as portals and checkerboards. The total effect is a mind-blowing labyrinthine reality mash-up linked by a type of dream logic. " It is also the beginnings of certain psychotic paranoid delusions < raises eyebrows> . ... but try and tell them that !

Probably one of the best I've come across conveying the depths of the "stateless state". From, "Turiya - The God State" by SantataGamana. It should be noted that the author acknowledges the concept of "wakeful sleep", but doesn't just leave the reader with that bare vague claim. He actually describes Why the concept is accurate as a pointer, which creates an understanding that integrates the experience for us who've had glimpses, or days, or weeks of literally, "living the dream."

On Diogenese Thereupon many statesmen and philosophers came to Alexander with their congratulations, and he expected that Diogenes of Sinope also, who was tarrying in Corinth, would do likewise. But since that philosopher took not the slightest notice of Alexander, and continued to enjoy his leisure in the suburb Craneion, Alexander went in person to see him; and he found him lying in the sun. Diogenes raised himself up a little when he saw so many people coming towards him, and fixed his eyes upon Alexander. And when that monarch addressed him with greetings, and asked if he wanted anything, "Yes," said Diogenes, "stand a little out of my sun."[7] It is said that Alexander was so struck by this, and admired so much the haughtiness and grandeur of the man who had nothing but scorn for him, that he said to his followers, who were laughing and jesting about the philosopher as they went away, "But truly, if I were not Alexander, I would be Diogenes." Those people that clung to great happy imaginings of this world, they are crestfallen if something disturbs the dream. Like Buddha was. But he allowed himself to be crestfallen, and then he began the long walk home.

For a Self-aware person, there is no longer the delusion that the "waking, dream and deep sleep" states are the end-all and be-all of existence. He/she is not fazed by any happenings in the world (or other worlds either). He/she won't have any issues with anything naturally rising in awareness, as there is the constant cognition of being free from whatever arises and falls in these three states. In other words, there is neither resistance to what comes and goes, nor attachment. So the Self-aware person progressively becomes free (as abidance deepens). In my experience the recognition of one's True Nature is a gate through which there is no turning back to ignorance (of Self-nature). However, the causal tendencies (karma) take a while to run dry.

From the Pratyabhijnahrdayam The Secret of Self- Recognition Turiya, the fourth state of consciousness. When he is in deep sleep, he has no dreaming or waking consciousness. In every man, there is a fourth (turiya) state of consciousness also which is the witness of the other three states. Turiya is a relative term. It is in relation to the other three states that it is called turiya or fourth. There is no succession in turiya as there is in the other three states. It is ever present as the witnessing consciousness of the three states. Turyatita means transcending the fourth state. lt is a state beyond the turya. Turya is turiya (fourth) in relation to the three states of waking, dream and deep sleep; but in turyatita, the above three states as separate states disappear. Hence when the three states have disappeared, tarya can no longer be called turya. It is called turyatita in which the turya or fourth state has been transcended. It is a state where pure consciousness is like an ocean without any ruffle whatsoever, and is full of bliss. It is the consciousness of Siva himself or one who has reached that stage in which the entire universe appears as his Self. In turya, manas becomes attenuated; in turyatita it is dissolved in sakti. When the turya state becomes fully developed and reaches perfection, it is transformed into turyatita state. In this state, everything appears to the individual as Siva or Self.

No lucid dreaming is not same as Turiya. But it is a step in the right direction. There are two aspects to self realization (in this context) in my experience. Knowing that the three states of waking, dream and deep sleep arise and fall in an unbroken awareness that underlies them. abiding as that awareness, knowing that IS our true nature. When that Abidance happens is when there is unbroken awareness (of being aware) throughout the three states. This doesn’t require any fancy stuff. It is a very subtle and yet very available recognition. All that is needed is for the mind to become still (which is where all the doings of the spiritual world go - i.e., effort to still the mind )

So in your view, is something like lucid dreaming the same as Turiya? As the person maintains awareness of them-self in the dream? As this seems to be the fundamental point of the debate to me. Or as you succinctly said, whether there is a "beyond the beyond" or not.

You can close the eyes and observe the mental images without giving them interest, attachment. This takes a bit of time and works better the morning but it's better than nothing. Concerning Castaneda, some of you cite the fact of having "intention" but it's not the intention in the habitual sense, it would be more that one of trusting that the lucid dream will happen. We don't have to fight to lucid dream... If you want to cern your "intention", you can concentrate on it: it locates some centimeters above the navel. What we can do is practice meditation and when we are enough in a meditative state we repeat some affirmations. It will work because there's a certain will that's negative, it's a need to force things and meditation destructs it. I'm going to buy some books about taoist dreaming, I'll post when I'll find something but you can read this: http://www.healingtao.org/deutsch/artikel2.htm Another link, it's apparently the same text but I'm don't completely sure: http://www.angelfire.com/ga2/stepstoinsani...LEEPING%20TIGER You can also find books about tibetan dream yoga (for exemple, with eMule/eDonkey... ). A book from Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche, the Tenzil Wangyan Rinpoche one's and Tibetan Yoga and Secret Doctrines (Evans-Wentz). About the books on taoist dreaming, there's Taoist yoga of dreaming (Oleg Tcherne), Taoism: Essential teachings of the way and its power (Ken Cohen) and there's a CD from Michael Winn: Taoist dream practice. Would you know if Michael Winn also made a book about this subject? Anyone would know the names of other books about dream yoga, taoist dreaming or something like that?

I also get this kind of light show, and if I just lay there and watch it can turn into other beings, or landscapes. this is not uncommon. In lucid dreaming they call this state, W.I.L.D or Wake Induced Lucid Dreaming. One just watches the lights without trying to figure them out, or develop a belief of what they are, and simply watch. then the dream state starts while you are in-between awakening and sleep. at least that is my experience. don't over analyze it. what good does that do anyway? LOL

I would say the majority of people who talk about awakening don't equate it with traditional definitions of enlightenment from ancient traditions. Yet they call it awakening because the experience of it is like waking up out of a dream. The dream is their life before awakening, which is seen as unreal or imaginary. Eckhart Tolle worked as a psychotherapist but after awakening he couldn't take it seriously because he saw all the complaints people had about their lives weren't real. So there was a definite shift of before and after for people like Tolle and many others who talk about similar experiences.

Heyo heya heya heya, heyo heya heya heya. My enemy. Wants me dead. The end of my hatred. I have also wanted to die. The end of my hatred. It never works out, I am cursed, by my fear. I call it my secret. That I have chosen to hate you, because you failed to kill me. You failed for such a long time. So I fight evermore. You'll always have to proof that you are greater than me. And you will never succeed. Because you have already failed. You cannot repair what you have broken. So I become a new person. Forget you, because that is the most painful for both of us. And thus the dream lives on in a new pain evermore. Untill we both accept the pain we have caused unto eachother. Evermore, realise the reason for all of it. Thus no longer needing to search for it any longer.

Yeah, things always wanna get better by nature. That's ok. It's part of a good nature. It's ok to want to dream of good things. They can always happen. They are often in happening in the bigger scheme of things. You don't even have to know how or why, that's also part of the goodness. So I take things easy, and let the good happen. How it wants to happen. And I no longer fight it. I just trust it, because I know how it feels, I know how those good things happening feels. It feels good. And I am ok with that. So I no longer fight it, but I allow it to be good. And I enjoy it thus already, where it is. Even if I cannot see it, I enjoy it already wherever it is. And in doing so, I am already enjoying it. So it no longer matter when or how it will happen. Because I am no longer fighting it, so I don't need to predict it, because I already trust that it is good and it is happening now. Wherever it is. It is already good and it is already happening. And when I can see some of it, I enjoy it also aswell. And I don't insist that that is all that it is. I just allow it to be evermore. Cause it is going to happen as it is already happening as it will already always be happening. I don't care about how or when or how. I just care about the goodness that is already here and now. As that is also how and why I always enjoy it so much, because it is always already here and now, even if I can't see it. So what does it matter what I see or not. I allow whatever I see to be whatever it wants and I don't care so much, untill I do see the good things. Then I can enjoy it as I enjoyed it already when I could not see it. Cause it already is, always has been and always will be... So does it matter how and when and why? No. I just enjoy it how and when and why whenever however wherever whyever. Cause that's where the goodness already is. Here and now, however wherever whyever whenever. Where it has always been and always will be. So I allow myself to enjoy it where it already is. Cause I am also here and now. And all the good things, all my dreams and desires and wants, they're all here with me. And so I already know how it feels. And thus I can always enjoy it evermore where it already is. And always has been and always will be. So I don't try to go anywhere else, cause the goodness is already here and now where it already always has been and always will be. So I enjoy it where it already is. Because it is always already here always has been and always will be. So does it matter how it is or where it is? No, it also doesn't matter why it is. Because it simply is. Already as it always already always has been. And it has always been evermore becoming evermore. I don't have to rush it anymore because it has already always been good so it doesn't need to be anything but what it already is, at whatever speed it is. Does not need to change how it is. It is already good how it is and I already know how it feels. So I allow it to be the way it already is. As I already enjoy the way it is cause it is already good how it already is wherever it is and how or whyever or whenever it already is. It is easy to be good and feel good. Because the goodness has always been easily being the evermore becoming of all that it always already has been and will be evermore the ever becoming of it's own ever being. So I allow it to already be where it is. And I love it where it already is. And I don't have to do anything, except enjoy it where it already is. Because it has always been wherever it already is. And so I have to allow it to be that way, cause I like it for where it already is, as it is already good where it already is. So I enjoy it where it already is. And that is how good is and why it is always so good and when it is always so good and where it is always already so good. As I know it already how it is as I enjoy it so much how and why it already is so always good and so always enjoyable where it already is and why it already is. And I can always already feel it wherever it already is. And I am always here and now and I can always enjoy here and now where all is and whever ever already is. As all the good always already is where it always already has been and will be ever more in its ever becoming as all is here and now is forever. Feeling good is easy and being good as good is good is always already easy and has always already been as easy as it already is wherever it already is and so it doesn't need to be anywhere else because it is already good wherever it is. And it has always been good wherever it already is. As all is here and now is forever.

I guess I'm referring to a very specific process in terms of re-feeling the feeling, I purposely re-enter the feelings brought up in dreams only, and allow myself to fully feel them after analysing the dream itself. In fact with this system, the longer I can re-enter the feeling, the better. After doing a 'session' of this, I don't usually have to revisit it, unless a dream brings it up again. The feelings are always uncomfortable, but to consciously feel that particular feeling seems to effectively release it. My dreams have their own program about what to work on at any point in time, I just go along with them, feeling whatever they want me to feel, sometimes just understanding what they want me to understand. For me dreams are like a personal guru leading the way, and after 30 years of doing this I can honestly say I'm happy with the outcome.

Without personal desire, there is no personal action. Even the desire to help unconditionally, due to the desire for unconditional love is a desire. Pure desire, is natural, and it is good, as is humans natural nature a good nature. You don't dream of a world where everyone is dying, and then wake up and say "Aaah, I'm so happy! " Because the original desire is for them to not need help, to be self sufficient and powerful. But, the reason, as I said, they need help, is not because they need help. But because there is a relationship that is blocked and not allowed, that has to be re-instated, through natural karmic entanglement, that brings the original power of the helper back to the powerful desire to be helped and the powerful desire to help.

Ones experience,is not objective truth. It's just a subjective experience. For example, color, is an experience due to physical activations of the eye and brain. The hues do not exist. The universe ,rainbows, even bubbles are all gray scale. That's why many people dream in black and white. The brain is not applying the circuitry to imply color.

The book I mentioned was EDITED by Ken Wilbur. I read with interest your connection with Ken Wilbur but the book that I recommended merely is a composite of the writings of the Nobel-Prize winning quantum physicists and all Ken Wilbur did was to put them together into one book. The writings really have nothing to do with Ken Wilbur and are quite interesting, especially Schroedinger's comments. It's good to hear that you experienced Nirvikalpa Samadhi as that gives one a glimpse of the Reality. Of course, it is temporary and the next step is to move on towards Sahaja (seedless) Samadhi and that's one of the benefits of my "conscious sleep" practice. It identifies inner pressures from both the conscious and the subconscious that trigger dream formation. Once identified, they can be addressed either through yoga (discrimination) or bhoga (indulgence to get them out of the way). In any case, that's what I do as, one by one, I try to eliminate them so that virtually nothing drives me and I can surrender in the moment to that which lies beyond thoughts and guides one unerringly in the best interests of all (the Totality) with no expectation of a return. That works for me. I had not realized that " the poor people in India could not afford to be direct students of Vivekananda (and Ramakrishna) since it was too expensive." That is indeed disconcerting about the Ramakrishna order. I sometimes go to the Vedanta centers (Ramakrishna groups) in NYC and I have not experienced the expensive nature that you mentioned. However, I can't rule out that it was that way in the past. Your explorations and practices are indeed intriguing and illuminating. We all seem to take some interesting steps along the pathless path and even Buddha practiced extreme austerities before he discovered that the "Middle Way" was more appropriate. I've personally taken some interesting steps which were learning experiences in some ways but from which I backtracked to proceed in an entirely different direction. One learns through one's experiences. I have to ponder your point: "So for example in Daoist - Buddhist meditation - if a so-called spiritual guru can not sit in full lotus with ease - for as long as the person wants - then their body channels are not open and clearly they can not even achieve real Nirvikalpa Samadhi!! " In my formative years, when my spiritual mentor would say or do something that really commanded my attention (as she often did), I would sit in the lotus position absorbed in meditation without being aware of the elapsed time and only after I came out of the meditation did I realize that 8-9 hours had passed in that state. Now, however, I rarely do sitting meditations and was not really surprised when I saw a quote from Ramana Maharshi saying something to the effect that sitting in meditation at prescribed times for specific times is only for the merest of spiritual novices (by his standards, I assume. LOL) While Ramana may indeed talk about visualizing the light on the right side of the heart, that practice never resonated with me as my chakra meditations guided me further up to the ajna and then to the sahasrara. When Ramana Maharshi spoke to a Jewish group, he stressed the importance of "Be still and know that I am God" (Psalm 46:10). In his "Talks", he defined "Be Still" as the I AM with no other thoughts. (Of course, this is an intermediate step as he added that "that which is (eventually) no longer even says I AM.) That resonated more for more than the heart visualization. However, I readily concede that "different strokes for different folks" is applicable even to spiritual aspirants. LOL I agree with you when you say "all we can do is continual purification and harmonization of the body-mind-spirit-Emptiness (formless awareness)." The points on the guna, however, seem to have varying levels from the gross to the subtle and hence require more thought. Nisargadatta Maharaj indicated that the gunas on the subtlest levels as one spirals up towards self-realization are (1) inspiration (sattva) of varying degrees of purity, of course; (2) activity (rajas) as one acts on the inspiration; and (3) consolidation (tamas) as one becomes firmly established in the realization and is ready for the next one in the cycle. That resonated with me relative to the gunas. I am familiar with Karl Pribram and the holographic model but I have never heard of Eddie Oshins. I will have to check him out before commenting on that section of your post. I must think more about your comments on healing as it is a well-known fact that people with "multiple personality disorders" (now called a dissociative disorder) can have a serious dis-ease like diabetes with one personality but it disappears immediately with the emergence of another personality only to reappear once again with the re-emergence of the dis-eased personality. Having had a near death experience years ago when I emerged SYMPTOM-FREE from a three day "irreversible coma" (doctors predicted extensive brain damage and organ damage if I survived), I have studied the process of healing and the mind-body connection. As a matter of fact, I recently received an e-mail from abroad from a fellow with whom I had worked meditatively. In it , he told me that his degenerative incurable neurological disease is actually reversing itself and that a television documentary is being planned regarding his positive outlook and remarkable results. Healing is indeed an absorbing phenomenon and one that I have studied carefully without drawing attention to myself. My spiritual mentor would similarly recommend a practice and thus facilitate the dis-eased one becoming a light unto him/her self and a healer for him/her self. I once asked a renowned healer in India how much of the healing was due to him and how much to the dis-eased person. After staring at me for an uncomfortably long time, he finally said that 70% of the healing was due to the patient himself and that the 30% which he contributed as a "healer" was convincing the patient that healing was indeed possible. The specific methodology was not particularly important as long as the receiver believed that it would work. Hence, he used many different modalities depending on the belief system of the patient. I am similarly inclined though I realize that some illnesses serve a purpose and must run their course. This leads us to a deeper discussion on the nature of life and death but that is a discussion for another time. As you duly noted, "Silence is (indeed) golden". We are in total agreement on that point and it needs no further discussion. Your concluding statement is absolutely right on target: "..as Master Nan, Huai-chin states - most people in the modern world develop "heroic over-exuberance" as the spiritual powers manifest - and so then use those spiritual powers and then "fall back into worldliness." That is why I have lost all interest in powers after realizing that virtually anything is possible. The great masters point out the pitfalls associated with the intense urge to acquire powers, and thus I personally have avoided interest in any acquisition of powers. As Ramana Maharshi has indicated, when one is firmly established in that sublime state, one can call upon whatever powers are needed to address the situation at hand in the best interests of all with no expectation of a return. That is how I see things now. Thank you very much for your very informative and illuminating post. I read it with great interest and will probably read it again ... and again. In addition, I will check out Eddie Ochins. Thank you again for sharing all this. I really appreciate it.

Hi ChiForce,thankyou for your dream story. Talking to drones? Just ignore them. Dreams are residual thoughts from being awake. Let them go. There is a loop forming if you dwell on them. Spending your time analysing a dream which is related to the day before. There is suggestion of meaning in dreams,if you can work that one out,please tell. Life is now,live it now,night dreams,day dreams,all escape the now. Please enjoy your life now ChiForce.

Hi contrivedname! Awesome! Glad we can (largely) agree Yes for sure! A few quotes from the Wiki page here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amrita "Amrita or Amrit (Sanskrit: अमृत) is a Sanskrit word that literally means "that which is immortal", and is often referred to in texts as nectar." "Amrit is repeatedly referred to as the drink of the gods, which grants them immortality" "In yogic philosophy (see yoga, Hindu philosophy) amrita is a fluid that can flow from the pituitary gland down the throat in deep states of meditation. It is considered quite a boon: some yogic texts say that one drop is enough to conquer death and achieve immortality." I don't want to hijack the thread here but in short, my wife and I didn't pick the name Amrita Grace. I was told in a dream that this was what we were supposed to name her. The conception of this child has dramatically changed my life, mostly through dreams. It may sound wierd but I was given shaktipat in a dream by my daughter (who looked like she was in her mid 20's in the dream and was the star pupil of a "kundalini facilitation" class). This dramatically changed the energy flow in my body. Also, both my wife and I knew on the 50th day after conception as soon as we woke up that it was going to be a girl due to a mutual dream we had about her. This was confirmed during an ultrasound in late January. There is a bunch of other stuff too but...... Love!

yes the emphasis should be on practice - and as for "what" my practice, and "what" my experiences I've had, "results", and "action" - etc. - first - on Ken Wilber - I consider him to be a pseudo-intellectual. I critique him in my master's thesis and that was way back in 2000 (University of Minnesota). So then I attempted to contact him to get a response from him about my critique. Instead his volunteer webmaster just published my master's thesis on his website (it's no longer up - what was that urL? ).... So without going into my critique of Wilber - one thing that I did notice as you quoted on Mouna Samadhi - is Wilber claimed that the mind could never be quieted - that there was ALWAYS thoughts going on. And I disagreed with him right there. But then Master Nan, Huai-chin emphasizes how to claim you have no thoughts is itself a thought - and so there has to still be a deeper level. So a good book that critiques Ramana Maharshi is the book "Measuring Meditation" by Bill Bodri (based on Master Nan, Huai-chin). What Master Nan, Huai-chin emphasized is that there is a need to empty out the conceptual mind - the 6th level of consciousness - in our modern world today with it's low level of dharma. And so that is what my project was for the past 20 years. But in the end I returned back to the book "Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality" - I consider that to be the best book on what you are "still in the dark" about. It's a free book - just search the title. I like the "word searchable" full text version in archive - but if you want the images in the book then you need the pdf archive. So when I finished my master's thesis - then I realized I had to "unlearn" more - and that book Taoist YOga states that after the first enlightenment experience of achieving the Tao - chapter 6 or so - there is a period of great confusion. In other words - I did experience directly this Ether-Knowledge as the Emptiness space-time vortex. This was AFTER I saw ghosts and smelled cancer in people (after I had fasted for a week - and meditated the whole time and my qi energy kept increasing). In other words I did achieve Nirvikalpa Samadhi which is what the real Emptiness is in Taoist Yoga. So here is the deal - the dreams do have to be controlled as the subconscious has to be controlled. This is called "preparing" for sleep - as Master Ni, Huang-chi describes it. But in today's "tantric" technology world - this is like going against a black hole - a psychic black hole. So in my case - I sought out a qigong master who does the Shakti energy healing like Poonjaji did - or Ramana - only in the Buddhist-Daoist tradition - there is a more "hands on" approach. For example Poonjaji gives the example in his memoir how he gave a Westerner TOO MUCH Shakti - and so for several days the Westerner, a young male, was running around claiming he was Jesus. haha. So in Daoism, it is realized there first HAS to be a strong foundation (the Lower Tan T'ien) - so that there is not too much resistance when (to put it into Western terms) the high voltage is then transformed or step-downed into higher amps. OK so since I had read a lot of Advaita philosophy - like David Loy's book (back when I was doing the qigong meditation training in 2000) - then I was confused too easily. I thought of the Emptiness as a static realm that was everywhere. So in other words there was the same amount of Emptiness in a piece of crap as in an angel - and so I began hanging out with homeless people and I ate out of dumpsters and I practiced tantra - ate meat and garlic and did psychic full lotus free healing for years in fast food restaurants. I even reported all this as it happened on THIS website - back starting around 2007 and up to 2009. So this was very intense tantra training but I didn't realize I was burning off my Yuan Qi energy. It was only the book "Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality" that describes this problem of the "evil fire of the heart." But as Professor Hugh B. Urban details - the poor people in India could not afford to be direct students of Vivekananda (and Ramakrishna) since it was too expensive. So instead the poor people opted for tantra practice. And this is the problem of the Western advaita "scene." So for example in Daoist - Buddhist meditation - if a so-called spiritual guru can not sit in full lotus with ease - for as long as the person wants - then their body channels are not open and clearly they can not even achieve real Nirvikalpa Samadhi!! Yet the WEstern Advaita scene does not acknowledge this truth. haha. As I mentioned - for real Jnana Yoga then the other types of yoga are preliminary training. So celibacy and vegetarianism and fasting, etc. The other thing to consider as I mentioned - Ramana states at first to repeat I-I-I-I and listen to the source of the I-thought. But as the I-thought concentrates then he says to visualize light on the right side of the heart. Now if you read the book Taoist Yoga it states the yuan qi originates on the right side of the heart. I was given this experience by qigong master Jim Nance http://guidingqi.com and he is the only 2nd level qigong master student of Chunyi Lin who was the teacher I did intensive training from to finish my master's degree http://springforestqigong.com So Ramana Maharshi calls this the "three-in-one unity" - referring to the three gunas. As I stated this is in fact the same as Daoist philosophy. In fact Kriya Yoga is considered to be from the three gunas also and is also the same as Daoist alchemy meditation training. I go into this in my free pdf training links below. So as for action - all we can do is continual purification and harmonization of the body-mind-spirit-Emptiness (formless awareness). So yes essentially the phrase "Silence is Golden" is the key to the practice but what Westerners don't realize is that music theory is the secret to meditation. I figured this out from my intense music studies privately while in high school. So in science it's called "noncommutative phase." This is more advanced than anything that Ken Wilber or Capra can realize - you have to study Eddie Oshins of SLAC (STanford Linear Accelerator Center). Trust men - no one knows about Eddie Oshins!! I had to really search him out. Although I have corresponded with his collaborator - math professor Louis Kauffman who was also at SLAC. OK so Oshins had worked with Karl Pribram on the holographic model, but Pribram could not grasp the noncommutative phase math logic. Oshins also taught Wing Chun (Bruce Lee's lineage) and Oshins realized that Daoist alchemy meditation (Neigong) was the SAME as noncommutative phase logic of relativistic quantum physics. This is not to equate the two - but rather, dialectically - they are two opposite extremes that have now overlapped. And so my actions and experiences - well it's like Crazy Zen style. In other words only the Formless Awareness is not hypocritical. So I could be a total shit-head right after I heal someone and people might think I'm crazy. And yet the healing does take place. haha. As the book Taoist Yoga states - the "yin qi" is actually just an immature form of the yuan qi. So this is what Ramana Maharshi is referring to - Poonjaji called it the "space between thoughts." So when we dream at night - it is our Liver yin qi that is active since our spirit is going out of our eyes when awake. In fact we can experience this through meditation - at the first breath upon waking we can actually experience the light shoot up to our skull and out of our eyes. So then for example flying dreams - Jim Nance said to me - yes that is actually a liver blockage! So this is solved by Daoist alchemy - if you study the book Taoist Yoga for details. Also his lineage (the author of that book) - on using standing active exercises, etc. So as the Daoist tradition teaches - along with the Buddhist - the main blockage is emotional and then nutritional. For example Shri Dhanyogi - he traveled across the US giving Shaktipat healings. But he could NEVER find a diet pure enough to his suiting. As one of his students explained - the toxins of the body get leached out of the skull - out of the gums. Qigong master Chunyi Lin says as "qigong people' we can only eat to 70% full or else the food "goes to the head." So this is a permanent rewiriing of the physiology into an ascetic lifestyle after the pineal gland and heart are opened up - the main channel as the Emptiness- Nirvikalpa awakening. I even stopped practicing for several months to see if the permanent magnetic bliss of the pineal gland would go away - back in 2001. NOPE - all my body channels closed up though. haha. So then the third blockage is environmental - meaning the feng shui and also the weather and social conditions - practice conditions. So most people are never going to get past these three main blockages. For example Jim Nance quit his career job so he could train in qigong full time. Why? He said he kept getting energy blockages from his job. So then he meditated 12 hours a day - for 10 years. Then he was declared a 2nd level qigong master only after he did a sabbatical of nonstop meditation for months - to truly achieve "eternal liberation" as Ramana Maharshi called it - or as Jim called it a true enlightenment experience of the heart. So yes - he gave me that experience briefly - of the deep right side heart Yuan Qi activation beyond death. So I have written several free books - pdfs - about my training experiences and my "unlearning" experiences - linked on my old blog http://ecoechoinvasives.blogspot.com But I don't recommend people waste their time on that stuff. I am just a beginner. As Jim says, I "fell out of enlightenment" or as Master Nan, Huai-chin states - most people in the modern world develop "heroic over-exuberance" as the spiritual powers manifest - and so then use those spiritual powers and then "fall back into worldliness." So his books are available online free in pdf - if you dig. They were in print when I read them but now no longer and he died maybe five years ago. One person who used to post here - they translate Master Nan's talks and post the video talks with translation on youtube.

Metaphysical, occult reality (as you call it) is the source of all reality. The universe is Brahma's dream!

But Ireland is a special case. My own view is that we should have not been so amenable to the Republic of Ireland and should have stated in no uncertain terms that the U.K. was leaving the E.U. whilst they were remaining within it. It would now be an unfortunate fact that the UK was positioned between Ireland and Europe and they had best tread very carefully in any dealings with us. Unfortunately our pathetic leaders would never dream of doing such a thing but bend over to be buggered by allcomers.

There are many words for it, sleep, death, etc. You are basically withdrawing your consciousness from your body, but most of the time, you're not aware of it. So if you simply meditate, and withdraw your consciousness from your body, while meditating, then you can be conscious of how it feels like to be in that state of being, and even recall the feeling of that joy. And then you can live in your natural joyful state of being, that you are ment to be in all of the time of your waking life aswell. Often people fall asleep in their meditations, that is why it is helpful to meditate early in the morning, right when you wake up, you freshly come out of that state, and you're fully awake, and vital and alife. And the time is ripest thus then to meditate, preferrably somewhere you will not be disturbed, but focus is vital to maintain a mind that ceases to offer thought, and become empty and clear and yet precise and fine tuned and fully conscious and aware and awake. And also even better, if you do this on a free day or two, so as to not have any limitations of time to care about. It is vital that you relax and ease into the experience, and allow it to happen all on its own. And when you're relaxed, free and clear, it's often gonna happen naturally and effortlessly. And after month's of practice, eventually, you will be so familiar with the feeling and state of being, that feels like tremendous joy. You can thus then allow that state of being at any time you wish, and you will also be more sensitive early on to all the things that may cause a dip or resistance in your own energy motional emotional state of your being that indicates your alignment with your greater soul and knowing and purpose in and as life aswell! Then your entire waking life can be reflecting it, and you move through the path of least resistance, all throughout your life, along the path of this joy that inspires the right actions at the right time and place, always synchronised with your greater knowing and souls purpose, so as to not even come across anything that is not of that nature. Everything in your life shifts in such a way, that you automatically effortlessly, by virtue of your deliberate practicing of this state of being, meet up with all of the good aspects in your life, even in the midst of all that previously experienced bad circumstances. So you could go up to the person you've hated the most in your life, and experience them in a new light, as your best friend, or one of your friends of the endless many friends of all friends that is yours ever more and more and more, evermore. So you become more unconditional, and more aligned with your core soul frequency of your being, that is like the breath of God or Source of All Creation. And in this alignment with who it is you truely are in your greater nature, you can view your life through the eyes of God or Source. And in doing so, the benefits are immense for everyone, including yourself. And your benefits are so intense, that your alignment just expands evermore and the fine tuning takes place evermore and evermore precise and high frequency, and greater complexity arising out of this elegant simple state of being in alignment with who it is you really truely already are, always have been and always will be. And it doesn't matter if you sleep and dream consciously, or you meditate, or you listen to some amazing music, or you focus on all the things you truely love and feel love in your focusing on them. And you focus on all the things you appreciate. Anyone can find alignment with their greater knowing and purpose of their higher truer being. How you go about doing that doesn't matter. And once you find your way and learn to stay in that state of being, it's not yours evermore. You always have to practice to be there and allow yourself to be there evermore. It's always gonna be a deliberate and conscious effort of excersizing the art of allowing. There are endless many ways to go about aligning more with that, most often people chase behind conditions that allow them to feel their own connection and alignment with what they call God, some even do it through sex. When they have their orgasmic experience that speaks to the true creativity of that nature, even through the perpetuation of our species. But once you realise the common and universal commonality in all of the different approaches, and you realise all that you have ever wanted in your life, be it money, love or enlightenment, you have only ever wanted it because you thought you would feel better in the having of it. So if one takes the unconditional, inner journey, of feeling better. Then better feeling after better feeling, you can be in that state of being in alignment with your true original creatorhood nature, in a much shorter time. Thus then you allow any and all conditions to serve you, in helping you allow yourself to feel better in any and all conditions. And if you primarily and only care about how you feel and you make a deliberate and conscious effort to feel better under any and all conditions, as your soul purpose and reason for being here, then you will certainly succeed, in the most joyous and fun manner that you can ever possibly imagine for yourself, along your unique and individually blessedly unique journey along the path of least resistance, towards all that you want evermore. But you have to do it, cause it feels better. And you want to feel better more than anything. And believe that you and all of creation also thus then deserves to feel better, through you aswell. So this service to self is the service to all. As the all are the one and the one is the all.

Excerpt from the Mandukya Upanishad, as per Eknath Easwaran: "The third state is called Prajna, of deep sleep, In which one neither dreams nor desires. There is no mind in Prajna, there is no Separateness; but the sleeper is not Conscious of this. LET HIM BECOME CONSCIOUS IN PRAJNA AND IT WILL OPEN THE DOOR TO THE STATE OF ABIDING JOY." "Of Turiya, without parts, beyond birth And death, symbol of everlasting joy. Those who know AUM as the Self become the Self; Truly they become the Self." Draw your own conclusions. I have nothing to add at this point. The words of the Mandukya Upanishad seem to speak for themselves. It clearly says, "LET HIM BECOME CONSCIOUS IN PRAJNA (deep sleep)". In any case, I am not going to be drawn into a discussion on any differences you may raise between this translation and others. I will say, however, that if a person cannot even know himself in the three obvious states of man --- deep sleep, dream state, so-called waking state --- and turiya, then it seems pointless to carry on a discussion with them regarding their theories or theories that they have studied about the overall nature of the Reality. They should first know themselves before going any further. In my opinion, the value of "conscious sleep" has been sufficiently stated by posters here as well as masters of other traditions. Now, do what seems best for you. I can't think of anything more I can add to this particular dialogue.

Thanks for sharing. Not really sure what you think we are not agreeing about? Clarity that Norbu talks about in Dzogchen would seem to be similar to samskaras disappearing. You are just describing the cause, and he is describing the absence of the cause. Also, I would agree that some dreams are associated with the astral body, but I would just say that is very rare for most. Maybe like 1%, as most have to many local mind samskaras "in the way of" any astral projections, and hence it is mostly just the residual as you described. Also, even with astral activities, the residual is "viewed" or reflected in the local mind as the perception that creates the mind/dream experience.