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It may surprise you all to learn that I agree with these criticisms of the EU. The bloc uniformity and forced fitting into the German model and the unelected commissioners telling everyone what they must do - despite that fact they may have voted for something completely different. But I'm afraid to say you are all falling for a false hope - that is that Brexit will cure these ills. Leave the EU and the economic model won't change, the legislation won't change, the erosion of 'democracy' won't change, the influence of the UK in the world may change in that it will lessen (possibly). If the EU subsequently collapses or goes through critical transformation then we will not unaffected - we will just be powerless to influence. Brexit is just a dream of returning to the 1950's, of Agincourt, of the battle of Britain, of Tea Clippers rounding the Horn and watching flags fluttering on seven continents while sipping G and T in the club, cricket on the village green as the sun sets like a satsuma amidst the pink clouds, half a pound of mature cheddar wrapped in greaseproof paper from that nice Mr. Sainsbury round the corner and returning home with the clank of old pennies and half crowns in your pocket. It's gone. It's not coming back. Get real.

I would say people need to stop thinking they are losing something or making some sacrifice and see that they are gaining something. Obverse animals in the wild, they have mating seasons, once per year to procreate, and they are all of exceptional vigor, strength etc. There is no need for any special practices, this is perhaps the problem, do not put much thought into it, you set what you want and drop that which doesn't serve you, say I have not had alcohol in over 2 years. I do not meditate daily to control myself or do any special practice, I saw it was not benefiting me and cast it from my life in one moment. Is a stag practicing celibacy? Or just being natural? I would say you can connect with some women more so with this, some there will be no energy, others there will be a resonance of a kind, magnetic/ intuitive connection. I don't think we are suppose to connect with all people. I was in the city the other day walking past many people, one woman I went past though sparked my heart and a very pleasant feeling pulsed through my body. I kept walking. No attachment, gratitude for the brief encounter. Like a butterfly in spring. The building energy I at times when inhaling move upward and through my entire body, very simple little time or effort. I think the energy of it's own will start to do this. I have trust in the awareness of the body. You will have more profound experiences I think, and the other will seem like a shadow in comparison. People are stuck on this shadow not knowing any greater. Just another approach to things which can carry over into other. A lucid dream recently with this beautiful woman, a very pleasant "orgasmic" dance of a kind, maybe like the yin and yang rotating around each other. There was hardly any physical contact. It is just a change in approach. Enjoy and continue on. My experience so far anyhow.

FWIW, I'll offer a few words. This is a wrong understanding of karma. It is not a matter of holding on to the past or letting it go. Each action and event is related to every other action and event in an unimaginably complex array of interaction / cause and effect that stretches back interminably and stretches forward as time marches along. Every person and thing is what, where, and how it is as a result of this incomprehensible web of relationship. Your karma has brought you to a place such that you do not see truth in the dharma, mine is to see it. Whether that's good or bad is an overlay of human judgement. It is possible that you are so fixed in a single belief system that it will never change, it's unlikely but possible. Every one of us sees the world through our unique perspective created by this karmic web. This perspective defines reality for us. You may have the perspective that your view of reality is exactly and perfectly correct and every other human is incorrect. Many of us feel that way. Who knows? Maybe it's true. More likely there will (or already has) come a time when you see things a bit differently. It can be a dramatic or very subtle change in perspective but to the extent it changes our world view, it changes our reality. This is precisely why life is like a dream. Our perspective defines our reality. That perspective changes and it is as if we awakened from a dream. We look back at the way things used to seem and wonder how we could have felt or acted that way. It is as unreal (or real, depending on your perspective) as last night's dream. Because of the inter-related (karmic) nature of our existence, many things are seen in a common way. This is the foundation for us agreeing on what is "real." To the extent that others see things in a different way, their reality is different. The corollary to this is that words generally cannot change someone's perspective. It is frustrating for someone what has "seen the light" to try to help others see it in their way unsuccessfully. It is equally frustrating to have someone trying to change your perspective when you "know" they're wrong. It is only when something shifts inside us that we are open to a new perspective. Why and how that happens is a great mystery, at least to me. Call it karma, call it a blessing, call it an accident. So while we can certainly each share our unique perspective, it is rarely productive to take things personally and attack each other because our views, and methods of presenting them, conflict. Better to let it go and simply accept it as it is... Sorry for the rant... Peace

You set the rules. It's a dream. Why would that be offensive. If you take your dreams as being important, then that is where I appear. I must be important to you in some way you just haven't figured out. Anyway I will stay out if that's what you want. I only replied because of CFs baiting. Your call.

Sherlock Holmes was a fictional character out of a book. Santa Clause said only good boys get toys. Chicken Lickin' said the sky was falling down. Did I say reality was simple, or even explainable ? No. I said reality was reality and dream is dream. You can know reality by direct perception of it, you can know a dream from a table, a rock from a wave.

I didn't say dreams were not important. They clearly are otherwise we wouldn't have them. However, they are pure internal generations of a certain state of consciousness. Don't you ever day dream ? Do you ever find yourself having driven a car many miles without being conscious of the distance or time ? Did you crash, or lose consciousness ? No. The mind can cope with multiple states of consciousnes simultaneously. It isn't a black and white thing between full consciousness and unconsciousness, but reality remains reality. Reality remains reality even when we dream. There is no mystery-at least not epistemologically-we can dream, or be entirely unconscious whilst still being able to react to stimuli-that's why a shock will leave the waking person initially confused until the mind can traverse several states of consciousness until full focus and then can apply reason. Reality is that you dream, but reality is not a dream.

It either is a dream or it isn't. We all know what a dream is. We go to sleep, we fall down stairs, fly, eat a banquet, but we know when we awake that none of that happened. We can determine dream state and waking state very easily. Where is the dualism ? Im completely non dual as should be obvious. A is A, a thing is a thing.

If you are in a dream then nothing matters. It's either a dream or it isn't. You set the rules. If you are just treating the dream as reality then what's the difference ? That's rhetorical of course, because there clearly is none, so why not accept reality. If you decide to change the definition then I'm at liberty to turn it back. I can say that your dream is your reality and that's why you are trying to explain it. I don't have karmic traces, but I do have high blood pressure :-) I have no issues with my past, no regrets, no guilt, absolutely no concern whatsoever. I'm not preoccupied with my past, because it's the past. I can use what I obtained from experience, what is useful and then delete the rest as useless crap. That means I love now, I love life, I love reality right here and now. That it doesn't always conform to my expectations or desires is all part and parcel of my joy meant of life. If I ever get to the point I detest it so much I would regard it as a dream then I will know I've either taken a wrong turning, or my life actually has become of such a poor quality that I no longer require it.

Simple Karl...simple time displacement would tell you that you are in a dream. If you dream about your lost friends or people you once knew 20 years ago..and you are interacting with them in your dreams...you know you are in a dream. In the dream of clarity, to use the Tibetan dream yoga terminology, you are receiving information about the future and you are having precognitive dreams. Here, dreams and reality can not be easily distinguished. You have to question if your own karmic traces are generating these visions and dream information. A layperson or a person with a dull mind would still get stuck in their own karmic dreaming. They are still preoccupied with the past. the seeds of their own karma.

How can you say that you know all this for certain when you are convinced it's all just a dream ? Which is to say, you don't actually believe your own hype, or you wouldn't even try.

I think it has to with your own karma and how much karmic trace you have left to work on. Is not healthy when your karmic traces being manifested in you dreams and begin to dictate your life style in your waking reality. You are basically replacing one set of illusions with another...from your dreams.... How can you be sure your dream reality and visions are real and grounded on some ultimate reality??? You can not.....

sure enough, increasingly lucidity and even breakthroughs via dream states significantly shifted my waking experience to be more aware of 'awareness' or the 'basic ground'. along with this comes more direct perception of energy - the gaps between everything become clearer as the mind penetrates the subconscious/subtle side of our reality.

As with a dream when we are asleep, it seems real until one day you become aware that it is a dream and become lucid. Similarly for this reality...

Those were just what I needed this morning, CT. I'm learning the basics of TCM, the 5 elements. Seeing my own nature through the eyes of these elements and what they represent inside us is unbelievable. But it brings to mind an event that happened last night, and when it says in your quote 'Phenomena are like a dream, empty of true nature'. This morning I experience the concept of us being the microcosm to the macrocosm in a very individual way. Every moment there is opportunity to view manifestation (of our own projections) and see what they are telling us. Last night my partner and I were trying to hang a heavy metal chandelier off a mobile home ceiling. It occurred to me that the weight of the metal lamp was too heavy for the circumstances, and that Joe hadn't screwed into a beam. I became aware that this would not work. Joe, on the other hand, was of the attitude, 'well, we'll find out when we get down here next time' (to Florida). I immediately saw the relationship of this event to the 5 elements system, and how I am experiencing 'weakness' (in several forms) in my heart. And I immediately could see in my mind's eye coming down here this fall and finding my ceiling fallen, my beautiful new wooden table smashed by the chandelier. My first reaction was to shrink, to subjugate myself to him one more time, to let him be the decider in all things out of fear of his explosive nature. The chandelier (metal) is, according to a TCM practitioner I am working with, way too abundant within me and needs to be balanced. The ceiling in this case is representative of my heart, the upper organ. My inability to stand up to Joe (even though everything we have, I have bought - I have virtually mothered him for 33 years in a co-dependent way). And yet, I have recreated the very situation that I grew up with - being terrified of my father. (You'd think by the age of 69 that a person would have 'gotten' this.) Joe has a lot of underlying anger, and as explosive as my father's. My healing, my remedy for the heart and getting the system back into balance, is to stand at my full height. To stop thinking that if everything doesn't go his way, he'll leave me or go out and get drunk (apparently I have a savior complex too). So I have subjugated myself to a man that has duplicated the very same bathtub ring of discomfort that I had as a kid. and this is why I have taken Prozac for 30 years. To keep the truth stifled. What an eye opener. What gratitude I am having for the fact that I have suddenly developed a great interest in TCM and am learning about the phases, interactions, elements. And what an eye-opener to see that at any given moment, particularly in a somewhat unusual situation, that we are truly the microcosm for the macrocosm; that we create the health for our own bodies, and that life gives us opportunity after opportunity to work through it. Sometimes all we have to do is look around, see what's happening, and see how it fits into our particular patterns. I have been so unaware. The rage I am always afraid of when withdrawing from Prozac (one more time) is at none other than myself, for allowing this to reenact over and over for 33 years. Geez, I wish I would grow up. Thank you, CT. (P.S. - I have informed him that I will be calling a handyman today to figure this out, find a beam, and do it right). As to the rest of the sham relationship? One day at a time things will go as things will go.

That's a beautiful post Bindi. My view is perhaps a bit different at this moment and I'll share, not to disagree, but to collaborate. I currently feel that our dream life is the ongoing mental process that is present for us during the day and night. In dreams this process certainly has a different feel and yet it is not free of the illusions and misconceptions of the ego-mind. As our waking ego-mind becomes less deluded, so do our dreams. Just as dream is directly connected to 'the ocean' as you put it, so is our waking mind. The primary difference is that conscious self-awareness is active will awake and asleep when we dream, unless of course we dream lucidly. This can be a distraction in the waking dream but when used correctly is very valuable in sleeping dream. If you don't already do it, I'd highly recommend trying some lucid dreaming work as it puts a very different perspective on things, at least it did for me. Unfortunately, many of the more modern methods of lucid dreaming focus too much on the entertainment and personal gain value of dreams as opposed to the more traditional approach which focuses on a more spiritual utility in the practice.

To innermost bliss, I pay homage! Were I to explain Mahamudra, I would say - All phenomena? Your own mind! If you look outside for meaning, you'll get confused. Phenomena are like a dream, empty of true nature, And mind is merely the flux of awareness, No self nature: just energy flow. No true nature: just like the sky. All phenomena are alike, sky-like. That's Mahamudra, as we call it. It doesn't have an identity to show; For that reason, the nature of mind Is itself the very state of Mahamudra ................... What are notions of going or staying? Or, for that matter, "meditating" in solitude? If you don't get this, You free yourself only on the surface. But if you do get it, what can ever fetter you? Abide in an undistracted state. Trying to adjust body and mind won't produce meditation. Trying to apply techniques won't produce meditation either. ~ Maitripa

I can try. In my experience, dreams are primarily concerned with disentangling the mind from all unreality with their often merciless truth, to me they are a perfect mirror of our emotional dysfunction and false ego self, and in various ways a perfect guide towards the ‘ocean’. If there is a disparity between my conscious thought and a dream, I accept the dream’s version to be more real (as long as it has been correctly interpreted), and work to align my thinking with the dream’s version of reality. If I ignore the dream's version of reality, then my mind makes the decision to accept my false ego self's version of reality. I currently believe that dreams are actually formed in Ajna chakra, and are like small packets of information from this source which has always remained connected to the ‘ocean’. I see the seeming distortion of dreams as being the distance the dream message has to travel between Ajna and our conscious mind’s ability to comprehend the message. When this distance is lessened by our conscious mind/consciousness moving towards Ajna’s way of seeing, dreams tend to become less distorted because the conscious mind and its ability to perceive actual reality has been correctly cultivated. Also as this distance lessens, Ajna can start to communicate knowledge and actual reality directly when awake. So basically what I’m saying is that it is the conscious mind’s wrong thinking and subsequent distortion that causes the problem with dreams, not the dream’s problem, so ‘dream-like’ is a misnomer, as ‘dream-like’ can more truthfully refer to actual reality.

Maybe we'll wake up when everything rests. As for implications, we learn from our dreams. Consciously from analyzing them in our awake state, and on a deeper level we reorganize lessons for effective execution, back in "reality". So, assuming this is a dream, you'd better do something worthwhile with your time here, so as to help evolve the greater mind that contains us. I've come to believe that there is only mind, which can/must be compartmentalized within itself to function. There is no thing that exists as what we like to think of as physically being there. Instead, all is the imaginings of mind within mind, exploring itself within to expand/define its horizons. In other words, we are all part of the God mind; our actions, beliefs and feelings all adding together to enhance the overall understanding/experience. The same pattern is reflected within our own image.

Oh, those characters you met in your dreams but you have not seen them in ages??? They are your karmic manifestation being played out in your dreams. You have developed karma with them. I guess the karmic seeds are being played out mentally in your dream visions. If you have good relationship with them some years ago, more than likely they would behave nicely towards you in the dreams.

Fascinating topic and one that has been with me much of my life. I have long had the unshakable sense that one moment, I will awaken within the 'real world' in a manner similar to that in which I have become lucid in the dream states, a multitude of times. This sense is not one that I sought. It is with me unsought, without desire and it is persistent in a way that few other things in my life have been... I am agnostic and open mindedly, skeptical by nature due to a heavy religious upbringing and many experiences that are beyond the scope of the materialist paradigm to explain; indeed the reality I lived as a child, with its invisible man in the sky is one I woke up out of one moment, to become the man I am now, one level of awakening out of a dream in which I lived for the first 10-15 years of my life... and this fluid sense of how my consciousness and awareness relates to sensory information and the conditions of 'reality' around me... it is unshakable this dream-like quality and experience of all sensory life. It remains with me and has been reinforced through the decades, through my direct life experiences. On several occasions I have had paradigm shifting experiences of the fully conscious, tangible and fluid nature of space. Each left me with the resonant, indelible sense that space is far from empty, ever, even in the vacuum, and that everywhere it is fluid, alive and intimately relating to us on many levels at every moment. I have one particular samadhi experience I'm intending to share here as soon as I get some time when this current project ends, it occurred while I was sitting at the Getty sketching... but many times space has become a living, palpable part of me, or I have in a sense, awakened into a wider range of senses of self. My body becoming vast, or expanding to the parameters of the room in which I sat, or stood. Space in these experiences is intimately part of me and I am a physical part of it. I can feel it as clearly as I can feel the cotton of my shirt on my skin or the keys under my finger tips. Something Joseph Campbell said always resonates whenever this topic comes to mind for long. "Dreams are private myths. Myths are public dreams." This sense for me is unshakable, even as I am skeptical about the nuts and bolts of it. Reality seems like a communal dream state to me. Subjective experiences of time and space have constantly reinforced this for me. However, this state does not respond whimsically and instantly to the intentions of one consciousness. It being a slow, dense and shared state, it remains malleable and fluid, but slow to alter compared to the instant reflections of intent in the high vibrational state of the individual dreaming. Great topic. Great discussion. Thanks.

Poor Karl...you need to stay away from this discussion. You aren't qualified to answer it because you have never received your mind transmission from a Sambhogakaya being from a dream and resulting in your enlightenment, at least partially, in your waking consciousness. Rendering the kundalini energy rising or the completion of the micro cosmic orbit possible, in your waking life. Without a physical master. For the OP, lay persons, uncultivated mind, won't have a clue to answer it. The reality is that your reality can be a dream and your dream becomes a reality only if you managed to liberate yourself and to be reborn in the heavenly realm. In another words, when you die or in a deep state of samadhi. Until then, dream still has certain dream like quality but yet a potential reality if things do unfold the way the dream envisioned. For a cultivated person, dream and reality are often not so clear. The danger is that you become paralyzed mentally in your own reality because your dreams are telling you something different. Well, you don't trust everything in your reality and why would you trust everything coming out from your dreams. Practice not clinging...you will be fine. FYI, you don't always dream about the Tao or in conversation with some heavenly beings. Once in a while, you get some low level crazy dreams.

“This is how to contemplate our conditioned existence in this fleeting world: Like a tiny drop of dew, or a bubble floating in a stream; Like a flash of lightning in a summer cloud, Or a flickering lamp, an illusion, a phantom, or a dream. So is all conditioned existence to be seen.” ~ The Diamond Sutra

A number of very excellent points Orion. Thanks! I dealt with a lot of Interesting experiences out of body as a child also. Flying through various dream realms. Dreams within dreams, never knowing if I was actually awake yet. Night visitors ("Old Hag", vampiric type entities, etc.). "Falling" Into my body, after travelling, my physical body bouncing up from the bed, then down. Things like that. It's been my experience that most people who get Into spiritual culture, and cultivation sciences, tend to have experiences of this sort. Then they shut down during the high school/college years (which Is what happened to me), only to re-awaken In your 20s. Children are basically In a meditative state, until they hit puberty. Super receptive, which Is why we learn so fast when we're young. Also makes us open to "Actual Reality", and It's various denizens. Again, great Insights Orion! Cheers!

I remember coming across the ability to play with size perception in school at around 10 years old, and I actually cultivated this distortion of perception to relieve the boredom I felt in class. When I was 12 I had a dream of a catatonic ‘crazy’ old man and woke up to hear the words ‘he is me’. In terms of shattering my simple conscious concept of reality this was a cracker, it ripped apart any simple certainty I had about who I was, and forced me to start questioning this level of reality. After that dream I couldn’t help but start to subconsciously identify with this other me, and it left me grappling with concepts that were overwhelming at the time and pretty much ruined my ability to live a normal life. So, it was an actual dream that introduced me to the concept that my sense of who I was in this world was limited and unreal. And I would likely argue from this dream and other useful dreams since that dreams are a truer version of reality than my waking perceptions. I certainly agree that our perceptions and conscious thought are limited, but to my way of thinking it is insulting to the value of dreams to call unreality dream-like in a pejorative sense.

Every topic you start is like a dream come true to me.