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Just thought I'd drop by and post a link to some transcripts I did of some Sadhguru talks. If you're interested in how to attain to the Pragna Halos...you might want to read all 3 transcripts. Enjoy! https://happypanda.dreamwidth.org/?skip=20#entry-3294 and https://happypanda.dreamwidth.org/8581.html

Hi, Everyone, This thread has come about because I get asked a lot of questions on various threads. In an effort not to hijack people's threads, I'm just going to ask folks to put any questions you may have here. For those of you who may not have read any of my stuff on here, and for those who have, here's a VERY brief bio. (Dear GOD I hate talking about myself in the third person! But here we are!): Infolad1 is a professional Illustrator, writer, and designer, with 39 years of experience on that end of things. On the esoteric end of life, for the past 27 years, Infolad1 has practiced Theurgy, Neidan, Meditation, Waigong, Qigong, Neigong, Neidan, Shen Gong, Tao Gong (and has been a fan of the original Gong Show for years ), Ancient Egyptian Cultivation, Taoist Cultivation, a dash of Mahayana Buddhism Kabbalah, Yoga, Pranayama, Laya Yoga, Yang Style Tai Chi Quan, Chen Style Tai Chi Quan, Baguazhang aka Bagua Quan, Bagua Zhang, Pakua Chang, Pa-Kua Chang, Pa Kua Chang, Iron Body Nei-Gong, Iron Crotch Nei-Gong, and...Okay, that's enough now. Jeez! I also do extensive research and comment on Information Theory, Simulation Theory, History, Pop Culture, Comics, TV, Film, Anime, Animation, EDM, Science and Technology in general, AI, Health and Wellness, Life Extension, Longevity, Bootstrapping/Startup Culture, The so-called "Paranormal", and other "Weird S#@%". So this thread will be the question depot for all of these things. If it's anything personal, just message me. I'll answer them as soon as I can. My life, like everyone on here, is super busy these days, and getting busier. I'm here to help If I can. Cheers!

After several years of daily meditation and breathing practices, I have reached what feels like a very uncomfortable mid-point, where I can feel partially opened channels in my body, but am suffering all kinds of discomfort because they feel seriously twisted and contain some major blockages. Before anything opened up, my body consisted of many different abnormalities such as warped and twisted bones which no Western doctor has been able to explain. I can now see that all of these physical anomalies are situated in the places along the channels where I can feel blockages, so it seems that my irregular physique was like a living fossil of energetic problems. Firstly, I was wondering how common this kind of thing is. After baffling a sufficient number of doctors, I’ve now been asked to allow them to map my genome as they consider me such a curiosity. Clearly this isn’t something they encounter very often, but surely I’m not that unique as there’s an endless number of people complaining about blockages, twists and deviations on forums such as this. Am I just an extreme case? The second question I’m hoping those with more experience and wisdom than me can answer is whether the daily practices I do (mainly meditation, alternate nostril breathing, nine bottle breath, MCO visualisation) are helping or hindering me. I’m particularly worried it may be the latter because, as I say, I’ve reached a point where I’ve partially opened the channels and dissolved blockages, but it means I feel the existing twists and obstructions more keenly than ever before. Every time I succeed in “getting out of my own way” during meditation, so that energy starts moving on its own, I run up against these extreme physical barriers. It seems I have only two options: to push ahead with what I am doing, or stop altogether. Obviously stopping is the most sensible option, but I can feel the half-dissolved obstructions and half-straightened channels constantly in my daily life whether I’m trying to or not, so it’s very hard not to try to do something to deal with it. I’m suffering a great deal of discomfort all over my body, as well as frequent headaches and fatigue, so is this a sign of things opening up or of things going horribly wrong? Thanks for your help.

I don't think I believe that breathing alone keeps us alive. So I don't feel it is the action of breathing that generates chi in the body. Placing attention on the body generates sensation.. and sensation attracts attention. I feel that awareness of sensation generates the chi in the body. Breathing makes sure that there is a continuous awareness in the body on some level. I feel that breathing balances the chi by spreading out the intensity in the body so it feels smooth and the chi gets everywhere it needs to be. So intense feelings like pain and discomfort might be because the chi is only restricted to a certain area and cannot find it's way out to its proper place in the body. Then that means, if I can stay aware of body sensations, then I don't need to breathe as much. I'm spreading the chi smoothly already by having my light attention spread globally throughout the body. It's not perfect yet. When I meditate on sensation, my breathing slows down until I can't really tell the difference between breathing in and breathing out. But what is left behind is the sensation of the breath. What left behind is simply sensation where breathing used to be.

This video reminds me of Primordial Qigong as well as Mantak Chia's Tai Chi form and highlights how awareness, breath and intention can be applied universally for making connections in embodied practice.

This might be worth a try: 4-7-8 breathing

Well, I have begun my meditation journey and I love the effects. I am registered for 10 day Vipassana in August (praying I get in) and they told me I have a good chance of getting in. However, Ill be going back to college after that so if I won't there will be some time before my next chance. I am realizing meditation is my path. I like how it feels and relaxes for my mind and body. I meditated in the sauna and got tk the point of barely breathing (didnt feel like I was breathing). I try to concentrate on my nose, but I was wondering: is that the best spot to focus on? I got back to the room and continued the meditation and I came across another question: is it okay for my breathing to be in sort of a 1,2 rhythm as opposed to say a 6,12 count rhythm? What does this mean? Should I nudge my breath toward being slower? I am buying "The Little Book of Meditation" tomarrow thanks to The Energy Cultivator's Handbook thread. One last question: I have a pinching pain inches under my right (and sometimes left) shoulder blade that wont seem to dissipate. Any advice or should I just continue meditating the way I have been?

Apech: I was trying to remember about some research on the pulse in the cerebral fluid which I think you know about. Do you remember this? MF: http://www.shareguide.com/Upledger.html--that's John Upledger explaining cranial-sacral osteopathy in laymen's terms. Apech: I have of late been having interesting sensations at the top of my head which feel like pulsing and give the image of an underwater creature like a jelly fish. I was thinking about that cerebral pulse thing and wondering if my practice was having some affect on my head/skull. It's really helpful to read that article again. MF: You probably know that the medicos would panic to hear you say that you have a pulsing at the top of your head: https://www.healthtap.com/topics/what-causes-pulsating-in-the-head God, there's even a thread about it on Dao Bums: http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/30853-pulsing-at-the-top-of-my-head/ Apech: I wasn't seeing the pulse as a problem - in fact its mildly pleasant - so I'll keep away from the medics! I'll have to read that thread as well. MF: I would think based on my own experience that the sensation at the top of your head is happening in conjunction with the regular cessation of habitual activity in the movement of breath, and that same cessation will bring the mind to one place or another over time to round out the involuntary activity connected with the sensation. Apech: I'm not quite sure what you mean by the 'cessation of the habitual activity in the movement of the breath' - can you explain that a little? MF: A lot of the time, the things we do by intention with our bodies dictate the movement of breath. However, we are equally dependent on relaxation that allows the movement of breath to dictate the activity of the body, in whatever posture we find ourselves. Gautama described the cessation of habitual activity as gradual, occurring first with respect to speech, then with regard to inhalation and exhalation, and finally with regard to perception and sensation. He described successive states of concentration, wherein he said these cessations occur. The most useful description to me went something like this: First state, dis-ease ceases. I settle into the stretch of whatever posture I'm in, and the activity of the posture or carriage follows automatically. Second state, unhappiness ceases. Oddly, the exercise of the senses whose coordination produces the sense of self seems for me to result in a cessation of unhappiness. Olaf Blanke is a Swiss neuro-biologist studying out-of-body experience, and his hypothesis is that it's the vestibular organs (sense of equalibrium), otolithic organs (sense of gravity), proprioceptors (sense of placement and motion in the muscles, joints, and ligament), and eyes that coordinate to provide the sense of self. According to his hypothesis, when these organs don't coordinate properly, some kind of out-of-body experience takes place. I think the cessation of unhappiness I experience corresponds with the role of these senses in sustaining pressure in the "fluid ball" of the abdomen (per D. L. Bartilink: http://www.zenmudra.com/zenmudra-best-of-ways.html) and the ability of the "fluid ball" to support the posture or carriage of the body in the movement of breath. Third state, ease apart from equanimity ceases. I wrote the following about this (http://www.zenmudra.com/zenmudra-shikantaza-Gautama-way-of-living.html): "The cessation of "ease apart from equanimity" that marks the third meditative state points to a strenuousness of the posture. Involuntary reciprocal activity in the muscles associated with the major ligaments of the body, such as those that connect the sacrum to the pelvis and the pelvis to the hips, only comes about because the ligaments and fascia are stretched to a point where they themselves generate the impulses necessary to contract the muscles for their resile. The induction of reciprocal, ongoing involuntary activity in the major muscle groups requires stretch that remains on the border of the generation of such impulses in the associated ligaments and fascia. Because of the need for resile that is felt at the level of stretch necessary to the third meditative state, ease does not exist apart from equanimity." Fourth state, happiness apart from equanimity ceases, and habitual activity in inhalation and exhalation ceases. In the same essay that included the quote above, I wrote this: "As to the cessation of happiness apart from a purified equanimity: I can say that for me, at some point only an acuity in the distinction of sense allows of happiness, yet at such a point there is no experience of sense that does not permit of happiness." Here's the latest post in my blog, which really summarizes my approach to states of concentration: "In the Pali teachings, there's a distinction between consciousness and the mind: consciousness is said to arise from contact between a sense organ and sense object, while the mind is simply considered to be one of the sense organs. Consciousness, said Gautama, is followed by impact and then by feeling, with regard to each of the six senses (1). The senses fundamental to the experience of self were not a part of the vocabulary of Gautama's day, except for the eyes. Sometimes I think that is why he made such a distinction between the mind and consciousness, and why dependent causation begins with ignorance: the senses most involved in the experience of the lack of any abiding self in the activity of breath (and in the activity of perception and sensation) were not known to him by name. Nevertheless, the descriptions he gave of the feelings associated with the initial states of concentration correspond exactly with these senses; for example, with regard to the first of the initial states: "...(one) steeps and drenches and suffuses this body with a zest and ease, born of solitude, so that there is not one particle of the body that is not pervaded by this lone-born zest and ease. ...as a handy bathman or attendant might strew bath-powder in some copper basin and, gradually sprinkling water, knead it together so that the bath-ball gathered up the moisture, became enveloped in moisture and saturated both in and out, but did not ooze moisture; even so (one) steeps, drenches, fills and suffuses this body with zest and ease, born of solitude, so that there is not one particle of the body that is not pervaded by this lone-born zest and ease." (2) Emphasis here is on equalibrioception (the "bath-ball"), and a combination of proprioception and graviception ("... steeps, drenches, fills, and suffuses... so that there is not one particle of the body that is not pervaded..."). In the experience of these senses, feelings similar to those Gautama described can be found, but it's the familiarity with these senses rather than any particular modality of feeling that allows for the cessation of habitual activity in connection with breath." 1) MN III 287-290, Pali Text Society Vol III pg 337-338 2) AN III 25-28, Pali Text Society Vol. III pg 18-19" How's that. (Apech: thanks.)

‪What does it mean to be in a land that never ends? This question seeped into my thoughts when I was writing an anthology of poetry, Evolutionary Nothingness Vol.1. I tried to understand the nothingness as something that does not exist, or a place in the mind that never ends. ‪An extension of thoughts that are so strong, they become pieces of you, resembling vivid emotions. Read more here: https://medium.com/@leonbasin/the-neverland-9fd31a6e4921#.ijo804lzy

99.99% of the time the best translation of प्राणायाम is "don't waste your breath..." There are (of course) other possibilities...

Friends of the Dao, Greetings to you and yours. I offer the below instructional video as a gift to you, and in the spirit of assisting you in your meditation practice. I look forward to hearing your thoughts.... Respectfully, Chip Personal Introduction: I discovered meditation as a powerful tool to help counteract stressful job situations in the late 1990s. Since that time, I have led numerous meditation groups at the Synthesis Center of Saint Mary’s, the Collins Institute of Calvert, and for the Evolve Yoga and Wellness Interdisciplinary Yoga Teacher Training. As a meditation instructor, I offer a variety of meditation experiences that encompass the basics of breath, sound, and light meditation techniques. I bring forward a desire to pass on to the community what I hae learned through many years of intensive meditation practice. My focus is to offer you a variety of simplistic yet powerful meditative techniques that can be integrated into your everyday life. The Breath of Human Evolution - Instructional Video (you tube link below) Description: An audio visual teaching video that integrates many powerful meditation techniques that can be easily integrated into your personal meditation practice. These techniques use OM, as a visual and resonant sound archetype, to propel your meditations into new levels of energetic expansion, integration, and consciousness coalescence. OM is acoustically communicated via deeply resonant Gyer Yhang Overtone chanting techniques to facilitate within you a feeling of universal expansiveness and connection. Dedication: In an effort to bring forward holistic and supportive health and education learning opportunities through the science of sacred sound, I offer this Meditation as a benefit for all sentient beings, past, present, and future. Synthesis Center of Saint Mary’s Resonance Project Breath Meditation Basic Meditation Steps: 1. Grab & Hold Vibrational Energy: Cross the Knot of the Tongue - Jivha Bandha; Close Root Chakra - Mula Bandha; Circular Breath; Unite - Micro-Cosm. 2. Align: Extend Celestial Axis & Connect to Celestial Centers; Collapse Time & Space into Physical Form; Breathe through Extended Celestial Circuit; Unite Micro-Cosm with Macro-Cosm. 3. Coalesce: Build Spinning Spherical Yin Body; Spherical Breath (Alternate Nostril Technique); Breathe a Spinning Spherical Vortex of Prana; Saturate Body to Quantum Consciousness level Exponentially Increase Energy / Frequency.

I have reread all your posts including the breath mechanics post and i have been busy joining the bit and pieces of what you have explained in term of simple to under stand way. Let me jot down what i have understood till know. Initially use the nostrils to assist the start of breath from the psoas/T12 junction.Imagining breath starting from T12/crura and end at sacrum and exhale return.After rote repetion,try without using the nostrils. My questions: 1)What do u mean by the "Forward and upward" motion of diaphram.? Do u mean that when we intitiate the breath at the crura/psoas junction,the rear end of diaphragm expand upwards first and then we apply a small effort in pushing it down with help of psoas. Is their any tangible feeling of the psoas moving downwards?? 2) Show we feel expansion on inhale near the anus/sacrum area or only near the perineum. 3)Is their a feeling of cool air passing through the nostrils when inhaling after mastering the psoas/diaphragm motion or you dont have any movement through the nostrils??

For those who don't necessarily want to be a card carrying buddhist but would like to know about the practice of Tibetan yoga, this practical introductory book looks interesting: http://www.shambhala.com/the-tibetan-yoga-of-breath.html The introduction states that only the most basic wind energy teachings are given that are appropriate for anyone to start applying - perhaps it's a good idea to underpromise and overdeliver? : )

v Omniversiality v __________________________________________ (0,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55,89,144) [C E T O ] 1,2,3,4,5,6,7, 8, 9, 10,11, . . 12 . .[ R A I N] 1.615384 GOD^TAO^CREATION^ONENESS^OMNIVERSE;12, True Yin; Yin, Yin; 0,0 *If: present divided by past =/= 1.615384¯¯¯¯¯¯, continue adding past to present.* v Yin and Yang v (0.) _________________________________________ (0,2,4,6,10,16,26,42,68,110/10=11) 10 AND 11[YIN AND YANG] (0.0) (1,2,3,4., 5., 6., 7., 8., 9., 10) ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ^Yin / Yang v __________________________________________ (0,3,6,9,18,27,45,72,117/9=13) 13[TRINITY] ({yang and yin}, [yang and yang], and (yin and yin)) (true yang) (Space/Origin) (0.00) (1,2,3,4., 5., 6., 7., 8., 9) ^ Yin and Yang ^ ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ^ Holy Trinity ^ __________________________________________ 0,4,8,12,20,32,52,84,136/4=34 (/9=15.111¯) (0.001) 9[bREATH] [0+1] [0,0] [0,1] [1,0] [1,1] (relax, inhale, exhale, hold): ([0,0], [0,1], [1,0], [1,1]) (true "infinite binary") (Relax::Spring; Inhale::Summer; Exhale::Autumn; Hold::Winter) 0,5,10,15,25,40,75,115/5=23 (/8=14.375) (0.0013) 8[5_ELEMENTS] [1] [+1= ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ^5 element blueprint^ v 3-D v __________________________________________ 0,6,12,18,30,48,78,126/6=21 (/8=15.75) (0.00137) 8[DIMENSIONS OF TIME AND SPACE] [1] [2 0,7,14,21,35,56,91,147/7=21 (/8=18.375) (0.001373) 8[HOLY SPIRIT/PROCESS OF CREATION] [2] [2 0,8,16,24,40,64,104/8=13 (/7=14.857142¯¯¯¯¯¯) 8 (0.00138) 7[CARDINAL DIRECTIONS] [2] [+1= ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ^3-D^ __________________________________________ 0,9,18,27,45,72,117/9=13 (/7=16.714285¯¯¯¯¯¯) 7 (0.001387) 7[?SO???UL?] [3 0,10,20,30,50,80,130/10=13 (/7=18.571428¯¯¯¯¯¯) 5 (0.0013875) 7[??BO?DY??] [3 0,11,22,33,55,88,143/11=13 (/7=20.428571¯¯¯¯¯¯) 4 (0.00138754) 7[?M?I?N?D?] [3 0,12,24,36,60,96,156/12=13 (/7=22.285714¯¯¯¯¯¯) 2 (0.001387542) 7[WATER, METAL, EARTH, FIRE, WOOD] [3] [+0* 0,13,26,39,65,104/13=8 (/6=17.333¯) (0.0013875423) 6[WOOD, WATER, METAL, EARTH, FIRE||BODY, MAGMA, POISON, ICE, TECHNOLOGY] [3] [+1= ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ^Humanity, humanness, being human; blueprint^ __________________________________________ 0,14,28,42,70,112/14=8 (/6=18.666¯) (0.00138754236) 6[FIRE, WOOD, WATER, METAL, EARTH||TECHNOLOGY, BODY, MAGMA, POISON, ICE||MAGNETISM, MIND, CHI, SPIRIT, VOID] [4] [+0= 0,15,30,45,75,120/15=8 (/6=20) (0.001387542360) 6[EARTH, FIRE, WOOD, WATER, METAL||ICE, TECHNOLOGY, BODY, MAGMA, POISON||VOID, MAGNETISM, MIND, CHI, SPIRIT, VOID||GRAVITY, LIGHT, AIR, SHADOW, ELECTICITY] [4] [+0= 0,16,32,48,80,128/16=8 (/6=21.333¯) (0.0013875423603) 6[METAL, EARTH, FIRE, WOOD, WATER] [4] [+0*= 0,17,34,51,85,136/17=8 (/6=22.666¯) (0.00138754236036) 6[???Human???Animal???] [+1=] [5 ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ^Human range of Free Will^ __________________________________________ 0,18,36,54,90,144/18=8 (/6=24) (0.001387542360360) 6[?TI?ME?] [5] [+0 0,19,38,57,95,152/19=8 (/6=25.333¯) (0.0013875423603603) 6[???] [5] [+0 0,20,40,60,100/20=5 (/5=20) (0.00138754236036030) [5] [+0 0,21,42,63,105/21=5 (/5=21) (0.001387542360360300) [5] [+0 ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ^Human range of Experience^ __________________________________________ 0,22,44,66,110/22=5 (/5=22) (0.0013875423603603000) [5] [+0 0,23,46,69,115/23=5 (/5=23) (0.00138754236036030000) [5] [+0 0,24,48,72,120/24=5 (/5=24) (0.001387542360360300000) [5] [+0 0,25,50,75,125/25=5 (/5=25) (0.0013875423603603000000) [5] [+0 0,26,52,78,130/26=5 (/5=26) (0.00138754236036030000000) [5] [+0 0,27,54,81,135/27=5 ( ) (0.001387542360360300000000) [5] 0,28,56,84,140/28=5 () (0.0013875423603603000000000) [5] 0,29,58,87,145/29=5 (/5=29) (0.00138754236036030000000000) 5[???] ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ^??????^ __________________________________________ 0,30,60,90,150/30=5 (/5=30) ( ) 5[???] 0,31,62,93,155/31=5 5[???] ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ^??????^ __________________________________________ 0,32,64,96,160/32=5 0,33,66,99,165/33=5 0,34,68,102/34=3 [4] 1., 2., 3., 4. ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ^??????^ __________________________________________ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ 0,42,84,126/42=3 (/4=31.5) ~~~ 0,49,98,147/49=3 (/4=36.75) ~~~ 0,50,100/50=2 (/3= 33.333¯) ~~~~~~ 0, 99, 198/99=2 (/3=66) [???] 0, 100/100=1 (((/2=50)/2=25)/2=12.5) [???] 0,101/101=1 (/2=50.5) [???] 0,102/102=1 ((/2=51)/2=25.5) [???] 0,103/103=1 (/2=51.5) [???] ~~~~~~ 0,144/144=1 ((((/2=72)/2=36)/2=18)/2=9/2=4.5) [OMEGAlpha] ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ^ Omniversiality ^

I have been working in my meditation for the last few weeks on not contriving the breath at all. It has been very fruitful, and amazing to me how resting the attention on the breath causes, automatically, the diaphram or belly muscles to contrive in subtle ways. I received this insight from the B Alan Wallace retreat called introduction to dzogchen that i was listening to just recently. In it he says that monks would typically have to go on retreat to figure out how to rest their mind on the breath without contriving it. So i decided to try to be aware of my breath but from the point of view of non-action, and i can corroborate that it is very hard not to try subconsciously to regulate the breath! Especially if you have done a lot of bellows breathing, or reverse breathing, but i suspect, even if you have just done basic mediation on the breath. I have had a modicum of success, nothing to speak of yet, but i have noticed that when i really let my breath go, it gets shallow and more subtle, but that it brings on a state of stillness and relaxation that is very deep. I just don't want to move at all.. like even a tiny muscle twitch would stand out.. my shoulders relax and my arms feel like lead weights, and my eyelids just freeze where they are. Its very interesting.. i just sit there in a state of nondoing, aware. I have found it at times very easy to remain in a state of non-thought (which, from a dzogchen point of view, seems to be just another distraction, but anyway...) and at times i have found that letting go of the control of my breath has caused thoughts to flow very freely... i can't quite say what makes this difference, as such things are complicated in their cause and effect.. could be planets, could be what i ate for breakfast, could be anything... So i am wondering has anyone else tried this? if not you should lol.. it is said to take weeks in retreat to really deprogram the mind from contriving the breath, but wow is it an amazing feeling just to sit in even a *partially* unmanipulated state. I can't claim to be completely uncontrived, but i am going to keep working on this sincerely, as the early fruits have been very sweet, and i am inspired by the idea of uncontrived meditation. Anyway, if you have tried this, do you have anything to share about it? I am curious of others experiences with this sort of "technique"