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And I realize this is not a new idea That the point of life on earth is to experience pain, pleasure, joy and suffering? Because in the realm of pure energy and consciousness, those things can't really be experienced in this way? That, whether because energy gets sucked into a newly conceived baby whether it wants to or not, or because some energy which is conscious decides it wants to, that we are purposely here in the physical realm to experience the pain, agony, and joy of it? So someone born into a life of mostly joy can then, after, exchange notes with someone born into hunger, famine and war? Because all these things aren't available in the spiritual realm? And then when you die, you are released, whether you never ejaculated, or did a million times? Cultivation would still be very important, because it would remind you of where you came from, and where you'll go back to. It would keep you focused on what is really important in life, and what to not get hung up on, and where the real joy is, not what modern consumer culture tells you it is. Would, then, all the self-loathing, physical realm-loathing escapists wake up, after they die, and utter a collective "OOPS"? "We purposely avoided all the things that we specifically put ourselves in a physical body to experience". Because I know how these topics can go, I will say that in this scenario, much of what Taoists practice would still hold true. The above ideas are no excuse to live a life of gluttony and waste, violence and greed. Though those are all part of it. I know I don't need the threat of hell or non-enlightenment to be good. I'm good because I AM GOOD, not because I think I should be. Even if there is no point to life and I become nothing (and not the awesome taoist nothing) when I die, I would still do good. This is not an excuse to be a slob, lazy, eat all junk, drink, etc. But if you want to...it's your existence, do what you want. But I think to keep in touch with my original self, discipline in what I eat and in general how I treat my body and other people and other other life forms is very important. But will I experience a different rejoining of the universal energy because I choose to love and have sex with women? Because I have some chocolate after dinner, and maybe a milkshake here and there?? Because I didn't meditate quite as often as I should have? You better believe I'm going to make the most out of this life. Luckily for me, a full happy life doesn't involve buying endless shit, eating anything my cravings ask of me...Basically, avoiding a materialistic vain lifestyle of stuff and putting junk into my body doesn't strike me as "not living life to the fullest". I am so much more happy when I detach from all that and find the real joys and suffering in life. So I guess my thought is that living a very spiritual life, while realizing that this world, pain suffering joy and all, is not something I'm going to try to escape from and hate and feel is a burden. I'm going to see it as a paradise, and make all I can out of it, and see what happens when I die. And as someone who must have been very wise once said, "say not that I have found THE truth. Say instead that I have found A truth". Or something like that.