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Hey dudes, I've read enough frustrating threads where there are big misunderstandings because people use old cryptic terms like "jing", "shen", "yin", "yang", "yuan chi", "immortality" and so on. In different schools and lineagues there are different understandings of these terms which eventually lead to strong misunderstandings and this prevents a mutual understanding and a fruitful discussion that could further a deeper understanding of the truth that lies behind the goals and methods of those old traditions which are occupied with achieving "immortality". Some guys even just want to mesmerise other people by indulging in cryptic terms and statements, which only prevents any progress at all. Therefore I want to "cut the crap" in this thread and want to try to analyse with you guys/gals the goals of and the methods that lead to immortality of the different traditions from a modern pov, in modern terms and with logical understanding to carve out the similaries of these different traditions to be able to conclude a synthesis which explains logical in modern terms what immortality is and how it can be achieved. ("Cryptic" terms can be used in this discussion, but please make sure to explain them appropriately, so everyone can understand what you mean! This thread is thought to lead to further and deepen understanding, not to spread mysticism!) Let me try first: 1) What does the traditions mean with "immortality"? Immortality means the survival of the conscious functioning personality forever and beyond bodily death. So this seems not to be a given in the theories of these traditions compared to the theories in the abrahamic religions for example! This goal means either that the personality survives in some sort of stable personal energy field that will "hold it together" or that the person's body doesn't die or that the person even transform its body into energy and includes this energy to create "a stable energy field". Other traditions claim that the conscious personality could "endure" when it fuses with a greater energy energy field that permeates the universe ("tao"). 3) What happens to people who don't achieve that goal? Their conscious personalities cease to exist, one way or another. This is the end result of a life-long leaking out or wearing down of the person's energy and usually happens at the point of bodily death. Some traditions claim that the conscious personality simply goes out like a flame (which could be compared to the dominating opinion of modern science) or that their energy scatters completely and therefore their structure get's destroyed, others claim that they get born again as other persons or animals with a wiped out memory. Other traditions claim that only a "downgraded" version of the personality survives death as a "ghost" who is very limited in its cognitive functions. 2) Why and how do the traditional methods actually work or are supposed to work? The "energy" of a person is thought to be limited and to leak out via sexual activities, mind activities and simply all activities in life. Therefore the traditions have developed their theories of how to stop the leaking out (via methods of "consolitation" of energy) and of how to refill or restore the stock of energy a person has to the level of a newborn or even beyond. "Consolitation" of energy would mean for example to store energy in a closed room (like "tantien") or to fuse different volatile energies which tend to "evaporize" or "leak out" to a more stable energy ("the fusion of shen and jing", "kan & li") or to a primal precurser source energy of these energies. "Refilling" or "restoring" energy can include "reversing" the energy flow from out to in to bring in outside energies into the personal energy field or by the transfering of matter into energy and infusing it into the personal energy field or stock. Please share your own insights and opinions! The more these are thought through and explained in modern terms, the more helpful and understandable these will be for the other participants of the thread!