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How would you counter this hypothesis to the âEnlightenmentâ idea?
galen_burnett posted a topic in General Discussion
So there is an argument that happiness only exists if it has suffering as a reference point. This is a conclusion that can be arrived at if you consider that the idea of everything existing in pairs and as oppositesâthe idea of Yin and Yangâis fundamental to existence; in this argument, happiness and suffering (Iâll say joy and pain hereafter as theyâre shorter words) are not considered to be exceptions to this rule of Yin-Yang opposites, but rather are just another manifestation of Yin and Yangâalbeit the most fundamental manifestation of Yin-Yang, as what experience could ever there be in Duality without shades of joy and pain? The argument is that joy can never be separated from pain because joy and pain define each other; they are a pair of opposites, like North and South; they refer to each other to give themselves meaning; without one the other ceases to exist. If all you ever saw was the colour blue then before long you would forget entirely what the other colours were, and the idea of colours, along with the colour blue itself, would then cease to be; considering, say, the greatest joy to be the colour blue in this analogy, the greatest pain as red, and all the degrees of pain and joy in-betweenâârather pleasedâ, âfineâ, âbit off todayâ, âpretty annoyedâ, etc.âbeing represented by the other colours. [*I know red and blue arenât directly opposite each other on the colour-wheel, I guess cyan and orange are really, but it suffices for this post.] Whatâs more, in Eastern thought itself itâs considered that opposites give rise to each other in rotation: mess gives birth to cleanliness, which then becomes messy again; night to day, to night; pressure to expansion, closing into pressure once more; and so on. In this argument it is assumed that joy and pain behave in the same way: the most perfect heaven can become a hell of tedium and constriction if you stay there for too long; and the most violent hell can be inured to and got used to with enough time, until it even becomes a place of amusement and intrigue. Also, in this argument it is assumed that any and all levels of joyâeven the very highest, most ultimate, degree of it imaginableâare still just âjoyâ, that all degrees of joy are as valid as each other; there is no splitting of hairs in this argument regarding the possibility of some greatest happiness existing âoutside the boundsâ of âjoyââsuch a notion doesnât make any sense from this point of view. I should note here that in this argument while all degrees of joy are considered as âvalidâ, it is accepted that not all beings will gain the same degree of joy from the same stimulus: a TV soap-opera may delight some people while be anathema to others, and meditation may be enormously relaxing and revitalising for some while incredible boring and dull for others; but this point is universally agreed upon by most, I think. There is the further matter of how ârefinedâ each degree of joy (or pain) is, and this actually comes relatively close to agreeing with the concept of an ultimate happiness actually, but stops short enough to still disagree with it considerablyâbut it is a tangent for another time. The notion of attainment of âperpetual-blissâ is common throughout Eastern spiritual-practices and philosophy: it can be found in yoga, in Buddhist philosophy, and in Daoism (the attainment of Dao), going by various names (Iâve cited some of them in the tags of this post). It is the notion that, with diligence etc. , a person can transcend the plane of Duality and merge with the Non-Dual, whereat awaits perfect bliss and harmony for them, which they may abide in forever after. If we accept the argument that joy and pain are essentially dualistic opposites, then how can we sever them, throw out one, keep the other and then escape into Non-Duality with it? How can we smuggle a dualistic entityâi.e. joyâinto the realm of Non-Duality? Wouldnât Non-Duality be devoid of all experience whatsoeverâblanker than blankâas all experiences in existence, including all forms of joy and pain, belong to Duality? even âexperienceâ itself can be thought of as being a dualistic opposite to ânon-experienceâ (though non-experience is impossible to comprehend). Rather than, say, Sahasraha (see Tantric yoga stuff) being an experience of the Non-Dual, isnât it more apt to consider it as an experience of boundlessness, of formlessness, of unity, of mergence, of the infinite? which qualities are still within the realm of Duality, and therefore the Sahasraha experience itself could still be considered as a dualistic experience. In addition, if the happiness of Nirvanaâsaid to be beyond the âillusoryâ joys of Samsaraâresides in the incomprehensible realm of the Non-Dual, then how can anythingâincluding âillusoryâ joys of Samsaraâbe compared to it? If it is beyond all things, how can those who tell of it liken it to anything at all, including to âillusoryâ joy? How can they say âyou know what ânice feelingsâ are, right? Well Nirvana is ânice feelingsâ times 100!â when Nirvana is supposed to be completely unlike anything that can be experienced in Duality, including pleasure and pain; so surely, then, there is no way to say that Nirvana is âniceâ, as âniceâ is âdualâ and Nirvana ânon-dualâ; and yet, are we not in Eastern spiritual-practices encouraged to seek Nirvana for it being supposedly âniceâ? So how would you counter this argument and uphold the notion of attainable âperpetual-blissâ? Have you met anyone who claimed to have attained it? If so, what made you believe them? If that person was indeed sincere in their claim to that experience, how did that person know themselves that they were not just experiencing a very long âhighâ? Also, how could that person have been operating in Duality if they had entered Non-Duality? If you believe in it after having read or heard about it, what that you have read or heard counters this argument? If both the experience itself and any attempt to explain the experience are beyond logicâdue to âlogicâ being tethered to Duality, and âultimate attainmentâ residing beyond Duality in Non-Dualityâthen how do you know about it in the first place and how are you able to talk about it or think about itâas knowledge, thought and speech all belong to the great despot of Dualityâ? If it is an intuition of yours that it is real, are you really willing to surrender your whole life in an attempt to attain something based on a gut-feeling? If you deduce its existence by extrapolation of your own life experiencesâspiritual ones includedâhow do you do so?: what about your own experiences hints at the possible attainment of âperpetual-blissâ? There is a further argument against the notion of âperpetual-blissâ which concerns itself with permanence-impermanence and with beginnings and ends and âultimate attainmentsâ, and though the argument in this post touches on thisâthrough considering how opposites continually roll and transform into one another, and through questioning the true nature of an Enlightenment experience such as Sahasraha a couple paragraphs aboveâitâs divergent enough to leave it out here. As an aside, I am not debating here that great spiritual-experiences existâthey certainly doâ; neither am I debating the immortality of the soul nor of consciousnessâit certainly isâ; neither am I denying enlightenment when considered as the notion of a progression through higher and higher levels of awareness, ability and intelligence; this is just an argument against the idea of the existence and attainment of âperpetual-blissâ.- 568 replies
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To become enlightment means viewing the world without any extreme opposites. Thinking about that a metaphor was created in my mind: Life is like a spinning disk. You are on the disk and the Universe is around you. You move closer to the center when you are giving up extreme opposites. The more far away are you from the center, the more delusion filled and distorted your view on the Universe becomes. Only in the middle can you view reality as it is. (But how you know where is the center? )