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This, being the forum that it is, is surely filled with those who question the very nature of reality. As we understand it, there is one accepted academic method for determining the reality around us, and multiple accepted spiritual methods for determining reality. I think, one of the most widely accepted, yet most fallible method for determining the nature of reality is the induction of the spiritual, or mystical, experience. The reason I find this to be difficult as a methodology for determining truth is that so many religions and sects (and the members of) use their own personal mystical experience as a determinant of truth. This, of course, is of the most fallacious nature. When Christians see Christ during and NDE, Buddhists see The Buddha, Atheists often have alien abduction experiences and/or a meeting with deceased loved ones while the Hindu believer will witness the eternal dance of Kali and Shiva. From my own personal experiences working with astral projection, I have found that the "astral" world is quite different, which raises many questions. The fact that my drapes are green in the astral world but white in the physical world is odd. The fact that my office wall at work is composed mainly of overlapping posters in the astral, but in the physical is just a wall - is compelling. There is more evidence than not that the astral world (especially during highly mystical states) consists mainly of one's personal core beliefs leads me to believe that the untrained person may easily mistake a mystical experience (or projection of one's core beliefs into the oh, so malleable astral ether) as a concrete testimony of the truth of their personal beliefs and faith. This is bothersome to say the least as I have many friends and family who are convinced beyond reason that their religion or belief is the only truth out there. Now, science has given us a form to follow for determining the most likely scenario. This is called "the scientific method". Granted, there may yet be a more logical system for determining the causes and relationships between phenomena that we, as a young and ambitious organism, have not yet adopted. However, as it is, we do have a fairly reliable method passed down from the great giants of science. How is it that so many see our physical world as troubled and riddled with half-truths, yet expect the astral / spiritual worlds to be nothing but truth and transparency? I would like to ,make a proposition. That those who are truly interested in understanding the nature of reality, take a scientific approach to the spiritual world. And I don't mean comparing spiritual phenomena with scientific theory - such as many mystics do with string theory. I think that's a false identity and gives us zero results. I, for one, take Franz Bardon's proposal seriously. Robert Bruce also mentions such an idea. The concept is to place a few cards from a well suffled deck of playing cards around the house, turned upward on the top of shelves and facing outward in windows you don't usually see from outside. Personally, I have already done this. However, I have yet to test it. The theory here is not to expect perfect results during an astral projection. The idea is to become more and more effective and maintaining a close relationship to the "real-time-zone" while out of body. Once one can effectively perform the correct retrieval of the values of each playing card while out of body - then, and only then, is one capable of testing the water. By that, I mean, once one can consciously adhere to the reality of they physical instead of flying off in some "la la astral land", then legitimate practices can begin. I don't know about you guys, but I find it extremely difficult to maintain a real-time presence once out of body. I will quickly find myself in a strange astral ream once I get too far from my body. And by too far, I mean, literally leaving the room my body is in. All too often my astral experiences turn whacky and cartoony and deliver zero evidences of a reality beyond the physical. So, the question: What is going on? The purpose: to know, to grow, to ascend. The way: practice practice practice, and take nothing for granted until you can verify and validate. ... am I missing something?