Search the Community

"Tao is not the essence, Tao is the way we go" Zhuangzi says something like this. Every thing has it's own Tao, but this Tao forces inanimate things to do something? Or the opposite, Tao is nature of all things? Like nature of Big Bang was creation of Universe? Then, can I say, if I consider that some Supreme God exists, that His own Tao is the creation and management of the world?

How does one deal with difficult decisions? From the psychological perspective, it's important that one be clear and honest about what you want. Therapy and artistic expression can help with this. But from a purely spiritual perspective, you simply recognize that you are not the doer and that you have nothing to do with decisions. You let the mind fall absolutely quiet through surrender or inquiry. The funny thing is that these approaches are not actually opposed. They occur in different contexts.

Hello, I hope it's okay to repost my welcome post. Hello, Not quite sure what to say, but suppose it's best to be direct. I'm in my early 20s and from a traditionalist conservative evangelical Christian background. I've studied some in universities, traveled a lot, wrestled with my faith a lot, and through a long questioning process, finally was able to abandon my faith in Christianity. I have resentments towards Christians, and Americans in general, traveling has really shown me what a messed up place America is, but I know I need to grow out of resentment. Anyway, I read Tao Te Ching and Zhuangzi's teachings, and they really resonated with me, and then I found J Krishnamurti, and he seems to take Taoism to its logical conclusion better than most religious Taoists do. I've seen how every country has its idols, its Gods. In the end, it's all meaningless, emptiness. Religion is a crutch. Even secular countries feel the need to worship "democracy", "science", and "equality". Most people have a need to know things, to have things figured out. Anyway, I guess what I mean is I have low tolerance for BS. I know it's pointless to strive for immortality. I don't really care for a "kundalini awakening", or "opening the chakras". Does anyone know of a place where I can find a master that actually practices what's expressed in the Tao Te Ching and Zhuangzi without overemphasis on exercises? A place where I can go live out my life without dealing with a public that just wants some blessings or stress relief exercises while continuing to live their miserable lives? Maybe a cave or remote mountain, like the days of old? I'm in Taiwan right now. I'm willing to travel anywhere in Asia or even beyond. I don't understand the mindset of most religious Taoists here. I struggle to see the value of putting an exercise first, and adding in a bunch of other dogma from Buddhism like karma and reincarnation. In christianity you're put on a treadmill where you're supposed to go out and do good works and evangelize. Buddhism and Karma doesn't strike me as much different. Just another opportunity for people to lord power over others. Am I crazy?

Hello, Not quite sure what to say, but suppose it's best to be direct. I'm in my early 20s and from a traditionalist conservative evangelical Christian background. I've studied some in universities, traveled a lot, wrestled with my faith a lot, and through a long questioning process, finally was able to abandon my faith in Christianity. I have resentments towards Christians, and Americans in general, traveling has really shown me what a messed up place America is, but I know I need to grow out of resentment. Anyway, I read Tao Te Ching and Zhuangzi's teachings, and they really resonated with me, and then I found J Krishnamurti, and he seems to take Taoism to its logical conclusion better than most religious Taoists do. I've seen how every country has its idols, its Gods. In the end, it's all meaningless, emptiness. Religion is a crutch. Even secular countries feel the need to worship "democracy", "science", and "equality". Most people have a need to know things, to have things figured out. Anyway, I guess what I mean is I have low tolerance for BS. I know it's pointless to strive for immortality. I don't really care for a "kundalini awakening", or "opening the chakras". Does anyone know of a place where I can find a master that actually practices what's expressed in the Tao Te Ching and Zhuangzi without overemphasis on exercises? A place where I can go live out my life without dealing with a public that just wants some blessings or stress relief exercises while continuing to live their miserable lives? Maybe a cave or remote mountain, like the days of old? I'm in Taiwan right now. I'm willing to travel anywhere in Asia or even beyond. I don't understand the mindset of most religious Taoists here. I struggle to see the value of putting an exercise first, and adding in a bunch of other dogma from Buddhism like karma and reincarnation. In christianity you're put on a treadmill where you're supposed to go out and do good works and evangelize. Buddhism and Karma don't strike me as much different. Just another opportunity for people to lord power over others. Am I crazy?

Einstein and zhuangzi Zhuangzi's Autumn Floods is very popular ,In this chapter,Zhuangzi particularizes the main points of his theory of relativity , Greatness with smallness of things and space, Fast with slow of time are always relative. There is saying,The concepts of modern physics surprising parallels to the ideas expressed in Taoist thought,Some questions bored me for a long time,So I decided to go back to origin and checked it out: It is possible that Albert.Einstein get inspiration from Zhuangzi's ideas when he build his special theory of relativity ? But the difficult thing is that both of them are too hard to get a easy understanding. For example,时无止 is important concept in Zhuangzi's relativity theory,It is no easy to understand and translate.James Legge's translation is "time never stops".Zhuangzi didn't talk about"time never stops".In Chinese expression,The meaning of 不已 is "don't stop",but 不止 contains another meaning "more than",means "Beyond a certain amount and scope".The "Time dilation " in Einstein's special theory of relativity,means 时间膨胀 in chinese,It looks like the meaning of 时无止. Herbert Allen Giles,The public enemy of sinologist,His traslation is "time is endless",（ChuangTzu,Mystic,Moralist,and Social Reformer in 1889）. Albert.Einstein and his girlfriend (Mileva Marić) might read Herbert Allen Giles's traslation in college time. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have a little knowledge of modern physics,and I do believe there is Superlight speed . Sometime I just curious.

Hello all, I've recently begun digging into the Chuang Tzu and am looking for some recommendations for companion material. I'm searching for some extra insight--especially thematically, as the text's purpose often goes over my head--but would be interested in any historical or miscellaneous background content as well. I would really love to have a firmer grasp on what messages appear to be conveyed through the stories. Any help would be wonderful. Thank you!

Hello! So I love the many stories in Zhuangzi that talk about Robber Chih. Without the book at hand, just my phone, I decided to Google search and read some again. I ended up with, what I think is, Chapter 29. We only have earlier chapters in this forum but I don't think it's neccessary to start a chapter thread as it's more the character I want to talk about. So I will begin in summary and see where we end up, and I guess we can reference chapters if we like Mainly for me, Robber Chih is a wonderful character for his honesty and loyalty to himself. He knows what he is, under no illusion, and is quick to point out the hypocrisy of the "high class". The character also brings me comfort - we live in a world run by the high and mighty saying what is and isn't moral, duping us into fear and chasing noble status. "Criminals" are led to feel guilty for petty crimes (though many don't - I hope to differentiate between what we should feel remorse for a bit later) I am not perfect, by definition of the word, but I am perfect by my understanding of it. Robber Chih has his way...his perfection. I like to tie this in to the Taoist teaching of "returning to your own nature", and also, neuroscience experiments into the "illusion of free will". If we inherit thoughts and our subjective nature due to our genes, upbringing and social environments, it can only be natural to keep within these perameters, otherwise we begin a struggle to do things that we don't really want to do, nor have evolved to do! Discuss

That Confucius was a Sage is part of the Confucian tradition. I have summoned and deposed a hostile witness and obtained the following account: Hostile Witness name: Zhuangzi Deposition summary: Would you please state your name for the record? Zhuangzi. And I understand that you have written a great deal on the subject of Chinese Philosophy, and in particular, what has come to be know as "Taoism", is that correct? Well, that was a long time ago and it was mostly about "Dao", I don't know much about these Taoists, though apparently they do like to refer to me as an authority. Is it or is it not true that in writings published under your name you have given a very positive account of Confucius? Yes Bearing in mind that negative accounts of Confucius also appear in your published writings, do you have an explanation for this seeming contradiction? Well, I may have been dreaming I was a Confucian when wrote it, you know, sometimes a man sometimes a butterfly, sometimes a Confucian. Can you repeat the account that you have given about the Sage qualities of Confucius? Yes. For the sake of the Jury, consisting largely of "Taoist", who who never read anything outside of your works and those of Laozi, can you clarify the names of these two interlocutors? Yes, they are Confucius under his courtesy name Zhongni and his favorite disciple Yan hui. Let the jury note substantiating evidence A and B. A: Zhongni was Confucius courtesy name, under names, on Wikipedia B: Yan hui was Confucius favorite disciple on Wikipedia Alright then, can you tell the court and the ladies and gentlemen of the jury what you have written about Zhongni, AKA Confucius, and Yan Hui. Yes, this is what I wrote: If it may please the Court your Honor, I submit to the Court and the Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury, As the testimony and supporting evidence shows Zhuangzi has written very positive things about Confucius as well as the better known criticism of Confucius person and teachings and I submit that a person who sometimes dreams himself a butterfly and sometimes a Confucian is hardly a reliable source for quotes to criticize either the person of Confucius or his teachings or the Confucian tradition. The jury is still out on this one. Edit: Corrected in Zhuangzi in final paragraph and added emphasis in the second section of the quoted material, to make it easier to find the important passages.

I've never read Zhuangzi cover to cover....only extracts in various books. So I began yesterday and wow, I need a bit of context! Or your opinions even. Firstly, did he actually study/explore Lao Tzu and TTC or does he just so happen to have a naturally similar vibe? The writing style...it seems inconsistent. As in, more obvious that it's written by a collective of people...some stories about him, and other stories directly from him. Either that or he's talking in the 3rd person for some reason for some of it... Are these parables/myths? Or are these said to be actual events and encounters? Answer my three questions and there is a grand prize

I posted an essay today at Warp, Weft and Way, an excellent blog of Eastern philosophy discussing this question. It's a response to a provocative post Donald Sturgeon posted last October. He was asking, can a Daoist (specifically a Zhuangist) criticize Nazis who are following their dao, given their rejection of conventional morality and relativism? [EDIT: to be clear, "their" rejection of conventional morality means "Daoists' rejection of"...] My essay reframes the question to ask, "Can there even be such a thing as a Nazi Dao?" The short answer is, sort of, but the goals and techniques are so destructive of Dao that they would quickly backfire and fail. They can be rejected purely on the grounds of ineffectiveness. There really can't be a Dao that seeks complete domination of nations through constant war. The question I didn't address is, are there other "bad" goals that can have effective Daos that work and would not undermine those involved? I can't think of any, but I'm curious what others think.