Attention! Letter From David Verdesi Regarding Wang Liping

[erdweir]

I took a seminar last year with one of David's senior students. I paid a completely reasonable fee. At the seminar we learned a couple of entry level practices.

 

Well...

 

...it just so happens that they work.

The basic results listed in the course description clearly become proof with practice. And you know all this drama dissolves in the face of proof however minor.

 

I would be interested in hearing a detailed account of what practices you learned, which teacher you went to, and what they did for you. And do you think these practices are widespread or does David have something special here?

 

BTW, my interest is genuine, I am not trying to draw you out so I can criticize you. I would genuinely like to hear about it.

[sheng zhen]

I would be interested in hearing a detailed account of what practices you learned, which teacher you went to, and what they did for you. And do you think these practices are widespread or does David have something special here?

 

BTW, my interest is genuine, I am not trying to draw you out so I can criticize you. I would genuinely like to hear about it.

There are teachers in Sweden, Denmark, Russia and Turkey. As far as I know... maybe more countries too.

[Uncle Fester]

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Edited September 19, 2021 by darebak
boy was I wrong about this one

[r.w.smith]

I may regret this, but I'd like to write briefly about my experience in practicing a little of what David and his students are teaching.

 

I took a seminar last year with one of David's senior students. I paid a completely reasonable fee. At the seminar we learned a couple of entry level practices.

 

Well...

 

...it just so happens that they work.

The basic results listed in the course description clearly become proof with practice. And you know all this drama dissolves in the face of proof however minor.

 

I have never followed or been asked to follow anyone. I have never been asked to say anything on anyone's behalf or represent anyone. In fact it is all quite minimal and informal. No big circus show. Just humans trying to be their best. Its funny how little bits of info get twisted into rumors and conspiracy theories. These people who some of you attack have been nothing but kind and generous with me. You can call me a fool if you wish and I will accept it as a compliment.

 

So while all of this gossip is going round and round on the hamster wheel, people are actually successfully practicing.

 

In the end whether you are practicing something or fomenting on the internet, the only true enemy is yourself. Better to focus on that battle. Its the only one that matters.

Peace.

D

 

A wise man can see more from the bottom of a well than a fool can from a mountain top.

[YMWong]

Well...

 

...it just so happens that they work.

 

Unfortunately, "it works" has different meaning to different people.

See how Mr. Mak's *FU* works to destroy swine flu ... on somebody who doesn't have it !

 

Most people into the 'spiritual' have an urge to *achieve* something, *feel* the qi, opening the *channels* ... and guess what: THEY GET IT !

But these are, usually, only tricks of the mind.

 

Needless to say, one can say 'who cares if it's a trick of the mind, I am happy with the result' - to each their own I guess.

 

For one, when results are the subject of the discussion, I am more interested in those that can be seen/felt/measured BY OTHERS. Say one has a cancer that is scanned by medical machines with precision and somebody can make it disappear, with results that - again - can be seen with that machine ~~~ THOSE are objective results.

 

YM

[erdweir]

Please understand that I don't represent anyone. I am not at all qualified to talk about that stuff. I'd just confuse us both if I tried. Total slacker noob here.

 

Darebak, It does't matter if you are a slacker and a noob, and you dont have to represent anyone but yourself. I slack off too, and I am no expert on any of this, but we come here to share our experiences and knowledge. Perhaps you could just tell your story? Maybe you are afraid that some people will criticize and judge you, but I wont... I just want to hear what you have to say.

[Yoda]

Things did get interesting again!! I didn't actually see this coming, but it makes perfect sense now that it has. Sean D out of respect for DV will likely never unpack all this for us but I'm glad that things have worked out well for him.

[r.w.smith]

I just recieved another pm. I couldnt help but laugh at reading the first article.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

The first post is from 2007:

 

 

QUOTE

Clarity & objectivity, Sex Experts read with care

 

Thread Started on May 5, 2007, 5:37am

 

The Sexual practices that are out there are NOT part of Zhen Fa, yet there are existing Zhen Fa on such topics and they do yield the result described in classical literature (still not easy to achieve).

 

...

 

Maybe not everybody knows that my first experience with such practices goes back to my early teenage hood, my very first "Sexual Gong Fu" teachers in Taiwan were the "White Tigress", and they opened a door for more research in the years to come.

 

The lineage i studied is different from the one mr. Hsi Lai wrote a couple of books about, but do share common elements it seems.

 

For this training in my foolish youth i slept with nearly 1000 women this is a fact, many of them were so trained to make a man come without touching him, people pays thousands of dollars to be with such women in Asia and not only i have been with them and was "trained" by them but did so without spilling one drop of semen for 6 years; and without using finger lock, neither having sperm reflux in the bladder; so i did know what i was doing pretty well having also experienced many blissful states even before meeting an enlighted master in the matter who would teach me higher aspect of the art.

 

(I then paid and repented many mistakes and for example gave up extreme fixation with semen retention enjoying a more natural sex and applying the acquired skills for the right purpose and still i did managed to damage myself)

 

Plus along the way I spent time in Chinese gerontological hospitals and special centers for sexual rejuvenation, and during years of comparative research in India and Tibet as well i did not only compare the theory but engaged in active "field research". So whoever claims to be a sex guru or to know about application of sexual tricks and gimmicks for whatever purpose, i have at least something to compare in the matter.

 

...

 

Bring me many of the so called gurus i invite them for my spring party see how many Daoist trained lady Tigresses they can entertain for lets say 6 hours to begin with, we generally play for 3 days... i want to see how many of them can actually not only retain their "essence" but recirculate it and be rejuvenated and refreshed...I will be surprised if they can even walk at the end of the 1 day....

 

think, reflect, look beyond, how deep is the rabbit hole?

 

cheers

 

David

 

-------------------------------------------------

 

 

The second post is from end of 2008 - a recent one. A new "Lei Shan Dao" Master. Good grief!

 

 

QUOTE

a new Lei Shan Dao master is giving transmission

 

Thread Started on Nov 21, 2008, 12:44pm

 

life is marvelous, and full of surprises, who would have ever guessed that the holy words of shifuji in korea would be so very true...as i mentioned when i told him about going back to China he kept laughing and kept telling me to go back to italy (for now at least) well to make the story short, in line with the incredible destiny who had Da Zhen first appear to me in vision here in Italy to guide me eventually in China a second master of the Lei Shan Dao showed his face shortly after i got back to the eternal city right here in the heart of Rome and giving what i saw so far he must be at least a level 45 or well above in Mo Pai standard (john chang is a level 20)... have seen for the 3 times in my entire life the much sought after achievement of living handprints and footprints on rock. Now isn't it an irony, now that thirst have been quenched and am not looking anymore the next great master of the Lei Shan Dao appeared and yet again im back on this controversial and difficult path, not sure at this point if its me attracting them more then they attracting me. The marvelous breakthrough that happened last summer in Korea and the transmission of the Mia Tong Wu Dao from shifuji totally put me on the Da Dao once and for all, yet it seems there is something that truly must be seen in the Lei Shan Dao and seem to be a path to be achieved in conjunction with the Mia Tong Dao, just as Da Zhen back then said. Therefore with renewed depth i commit this body and mind to achieve further on this path as this master was so very kind to consider passing his transmission on to me, and i shall pass it on to all those who earnestly seek.

 

Blessing to All

 

David

 

-----------------------------------------

 

[Uncle Fester]

.

 

Edited September 19, 2021 by darebak

[erdweir]

 

Don't you find it ironic that you are stealing random articles from a private forum in order to make an unprovoked attack on someone else's integrity?

 

 

Is that a confirmation that these articles are actually Written by David V and you have seen them on the forum?

[Pietro]

Mr. Smith,

Don't you find it ironic that you are stealing articles from a private forum in order to make an unprovoked attack on someone else's integrity?

 

Well, the whole discussion with David on this site started when one of David students expected this site to comply with David's teacher requirements on what to share and what not to share. Eventually David was able to impose his ethics on this site in that particular occasion. I think it is quite ironic that the situation came back to hunt him. With the users of our site to pretty much impose their ethics on the content of that site for one time.

 

what goes around comes around.

 

But I suppose David will get very pissed off, he will then find otu who this student is. Who will then be under strong pressure to ask the person who submitted all this to take it off. This person will do it, and eventually the info will be out. Been there, seen that.

 

Bottom line is: enjoy those posts while they are there.

 

In italy we say:

who gets angry makes double effort:

to get angry, and to calm himself after

(incazzarsi e scazzarsi)

 

Totally agree with that, but I would use a much more mundane and boring example than curing cancer.

There are things that are half way. For example fi you were able to be totally celibate, this is measurable. But it can often be achieved by people who are just very committed to something... no mater what that is. So there are things that can be measured, but would not make those practices be the cause, more like a catalytic facilitator.

[Ken]

I would be interested in hearing a detailed account of what practices you learned, which teacher you went to, and what they did for you. And do you think these practices are widespread or does David have something special here?

 

BTW, my interest is genuine, I am not trying to draw you out so I can criticize you. I would genuinely like to hear about it.

 

The pratice in question is Xing Shen Zhuang which is a widely practiced moving forms in China. Xing Shen Zhuang was dervied from an earlier form from the Ermei lineage by Dr. Pang Ming in the 1980s. It is a good form and i have no doubt that it is beneficial to the practitioner, so the "it works" i believe it means his health has improved. Two students who leant directlt from Pang Ming began teaching this form in the USA since the 1990s, a dvd can be purchased for about $50 and you can learn directly from them in person for a few hundreds, this is exactly the same form as taught by Verdesi as confirmed by former students of his who has seen the dvd. I don't know where Verdesi learnt it from but what he did is srite some fantastical article on the form to repackage it for resale for thousands of dollars. Of course by looking at the old posts here, his followers claim that their form is the "secret one", the only one you can get from Verdesi. This is of course as false as their claim that Master Wang will only teach you "inner" teaching by going through Verdesi.

[erdweir]

The pratice in question is Xing Shen Zhuang which is a widely practiced moving forms in China. Xing Shen Zhuang was dervied from an earlier form from the Ermei lineage by Dr. Pang Ming in the 1980s. It is a good form and i have no doubt that it is beneficial to the practitioner, so the "it works" i believe it means his health has improved. Two students who leant directlt from Pang Ming began teaching this form in the USA since the 1990s, a dvd can be purchased for about $50 and you can learn directly from them in person for a few hundreds, this is exactly the same form as taught by Verdesi as confirmed by former students of his who has seen the dvd. I don't know where Verdesi learnt it from but what he did is srite some fantastical article on the form to repackage it for resale for thousands of dollars. Of course by looking at the old posts here, his followers claim that their form is the "secret one", the only one you can get from Verdesi. This is of course as false as their claim that Master Wang will only teach you "inner" teaching by going through Verdesi.

Thanks for the info..

[Uncle Fester]

.

Edited September 19, 2021 by darebak

[Ken]

 

The reason I posted here is that there was a barrage of misguided attacks on someone I care about. I wanted to provide some balance and a simple human viewpoint. I also wanted to let people know that there are normal people practicing these things with at least some success. And there is plenty of other good stuff out there to practice. Even the most simple things...For instance, I sometimes think I could spend my life just praying. Simple and effective.

 

Look I don't feel cheated or tricked in anyway. I don't need to be rescued by some internet crusader. No amount of espionage will make that illusion a reality.

 

 

 

I don't think there is any misguided attack on Verdesi, this is an expose on the lies told by Verdesi. Frankly no one here is interested or was trying to save you, everyone deserve the the teacher they have.

 

Talking about illusion, i guess another lie that i heard is that Verdesi claimed he went on a retreat in the mountain last summer with Master Wang and John Chang "to die and come back again", guess what ? that didn't happen, but i suppose not many people believed in this anyway. My acquaintance asked Master Wang personally about his and IIRC everyone has pretty good laugh about it. The wild lies from Verdesi is simply mind blowing.

Edited May 14, 2009 by Ken

[Uncle Fester]

.

Edited September 19, 2021 by darebak

[Ken]

Well if you aren't trying to rescue people then why even bother with this stuff?

 

Look I think you are a good guy who has heard some rumors and become sucked into the gossip vacuum. I guess I could say the same for myself now though my perspective is more or less opposite to yours.

 

 

I am not here to rescue anyone, as i said everyone deserve the teacher thay have and I can care less if they want to study with Verdesi. I am here to straighten up the lies told by Verdesi about Master Wang. Everything he has written or claimed about Master Wang are more or less lies. That's all.

Edited May 14, 2009 by Ken

[DentyDao]

The important thing to remember here is that we each do our own investigation in the end. We look, we see and then, at some point, inevitably, we must jump out of the story. Without this final willingness to jump, we stay in the story. This drama in the end is only just that, a story.

[r.w.smith]

Sean are You still the Front Man or Spokesperson for David ?

 

Thanks,

[orb]

The important thing to remember here is that we each do our own investigation in the end. We look, we see and then, at some point, inevitably, we must jump out of the story. Without this final willingness to jump, we stay in the story. This drama in the end is only just that, a story.

 

 

Stories - facts - stories - everything is a story - this entire forum is a story, life is a story and then it's based on facts also. Everybody believes one story or another and this thread happened to be about Verdessi's story which plainly sucks, and it sucked even before Wang Liping, even before John Chang (which was actually the greatest damage that this moron had done IMHO) - it sucked beginning with Mantak Chia maybe even before that !

And the fact that so many different people post in this thread so fast - clearly shows the real effect of DV's actions - he is the only one responsible for this story ! So let the people read it so that they know the story of David Verdessi - and who knows maybe one day there will be a movie about this joker or even better a never ending TV show like "Dallas" where David Verdessi creates an empire by trading qigong masters for money and he and his russian wife will live happilly ever after in a golden castle maintained by poor taobums who are convinced that one day DV will reveal to them the secret of imortality....

[matt007]

I've been following the Wang Liping discussion here for long time. I actually tried to get in on the training that Edward Richards was organizing a year ago. I'm told there might be another one through Richards.

 

I found this post from Dao Zhen yesterday and found it ironic.

 

From my experience in speaking with other Taoists - those in a standard sect and living in a temple area such as "Wudang Purple Heaven Temple, Huashan Jade Spring Temple, Louguantai Terrace, or Baiyunguan White Cloud Temple" or those Taoists who are part of a sect and not living in a temple, but live in the city, many do not think highly of Wang Liping, and in fact there are many Taoists who think he is a fake, false, and the book he wrote is a lie in order to promote himself and be able to charge large amounts of money to foreign students for workshops.

 

The above is not my opinion.

 

I can say nothing as I have not met him.

 

But I am repeating what other Taoists who have much experience have said.

 

Teacher Wang Liping is not responsible for overseeing Taoist Temples in China.

 

To my knowledge (which is very limited), the governing political body for Taoism in China is the Taoist Association in Beijing based at Bai Yun Guan - White Cloud Temple - www.bjbyg.com

 

I am very good friends with a senior monk there who is a 19th Generation Dragon Gate Disciple, and has official position in the temple - I will ask him if he would post something to state the structure of Taoism in China, and who oversees what.

 

His name is Teacher Qiu Yuanxing and is a very respected Taoist in China, and well known in Taoism circles.

 

Another point is that within the Taoism Association of China, the current President and leader is Master Ren Fa Rong, who is the abbot of Louguantai Terrace; who I saw and visited with during my stay there this January.

 

I was under the impression the President of the Taoism Association was in charge of such tasks; but I could be wrong.

 

These are all political things, and have some relationship with the Chinese Government.

 

There are many Taoists who train and practice seperate from this whole organization also in Dao Guan - Training Center for Dao - and these are usually small community of students and teacher in a rural and remote area, with no support from the Taoist Association or the Chinese Government.

 

I always felt Teacher Wang Liping was in the above catagory, and not related in any way to the Governing Political Bodies in China which manage temples and the like.

 

Temples by the way are very public, and have tourists and the like visiting them; at least the famous ones do.

 

I have never met Teacher Wang Liping, and am sure he has some very valuable things to share.

 

I mean no disrespect to him or what he teaches here.

 

I just want to clarify a very strong statement that was made, which would paint a picture that one individual has a very strong power and influence in the Taoism world in Mainland China.

 

There are many people involved in governing the Taoism world in China, and many, many different respected teachers here and also many different lineage branches.

 

Just my observations from living in China, and being an observer of Taoism here.

 

Best of luck in your study and practice.

 

Sincerely, dao zhen

 

 

Isn't it true that Wang Liping has charged huge amounts of money for personal instruction. I've heard that some foreigners have paid 50,000 for meetings and training with him. When I was in China, Wang Liping's name was well known and people had similar stories, so it seems reasonable to assume there is some truth to it.

[Ken]

 

Isn't it true that Wang Liping has charged huge amounts of money for personal instruction. I've heard that some foreigners have paid 50,000 for meetings and training with him. When I was in China, Wang Liping's name was well known and people had similar stories, so it seems reasonable to assume there is some truth to it.

 

 

50,000 ? I have no idea where you get that from. The seminar in Jinhua cost 3500 RMB for Chinese and USD 3500 for foreigners which include room and board, transator and 10 days of instruction.

Edited May 15, 2009 by Ken

[matt007]

I got a hold of the full version of these letters from a member of David Verdesi's website (not a student).

 

"A number of personal letters and emails have prompted me to paste here part of a conversation with a dear friend in Turkey.

 

the matters at hand is the seemingly rebirth of Daoism in China, this is as mentioned a while ago part of a long term plan for the reintroduction of religious value in the communist structure of chinese politic, pedagogy and society at large. Suffering from the constant sense of comparison and inferiority complex and also becoming harder and harder to deny the need of the masses for more then just moralism ( see the surge of qigong sects and both islam and christianity) a slow process started in 90's of preparing the ground for the rebirth of religion, that is autoctonous religion, i.e. Daoism in China.

 

Liping is the man for the job that is his destiny and as i mentioned already a couple of years ago, the Olympics would sign the official opening of the gates. Liping will become more and more a public persona with huge government support propaganda behind and the cream of china intellectuals to back up the operation, the goal is simple, Daoism to everybody for the pride of the state, this they realize cannot happen without including westerners, they are eventually surrendering to the reality that there is more to the world then just China and its walls, globalization has hit the mark.

 

as i was with him there in the last 4 years of transition have seen changes and event from a relatively good sightpoint.

 

i must say to a great extent his biography (written in 92-93) and all the followed, (1 books and a collection of articles) has been part of a well thought plan of propaganda of the new daoism and his pope, Liping.

 

that is what he was trained for that is his destiny, that is his greatness and of course his delimitation.

 

Liping has always been very straight, at the beginning of each class i presented to, private or public he clearly stated he teaches the religious aspect of Daoism belonging to the mountain or hermit tradition, this alone is a statement made in a very chinese way that says: forget ever achieving it, this is a tease.

 

for a realistic and mature understanding of the statement implies the act of renunciation above all without which there is no base nor condition of achievement of certain things.

(here Liping play the game for he caress people ego saying things without saying,giving the easy impression things are bigger then they are whent it comes to some of his students, is very sweet, excellent didactic to put people up and commend them, but when getting the hard facts, i found lots of inconsistence or anedoct at best or in most cases those unique peak which happened only once or twice in the person practice career)

 

so alike tibetan buddhists the teaching of high monastic methods to lay people begun, this is good to a certain extant of course and definetely helps a catolic spreading of the teaching, everybody can practice the steps of Yu, the methods of this and that the Ling bao bi fa and such, but as always...

 

if i were to teach you level 18 of the Mo pai, would that single technique however great actually do what?

 

even the base of what Liping teaches is light years ahead the possibility of a lay person and he clearly does not want to teach or put people through the 3 years foundatiuon period in the dark with all that requires...that is direct undivided continuous attention from the teacher. That is not his destiny.

 

his destiny is to reveal the techincal aspect of his tradition, to show that everyone can practice it no matter who or what because will "make you youthful" and be "good for you" will "heal you" and the usual kind of lets admit it empty meaningless promises you all heard 1000 times before, (not that they do not deliver to a certain extent and for certain people)

 

but as usual an exhageration where the tool and the mean are not commensurate (why should i practice high methods of great sofistication and highly "spiritual" to look youthful?????? when there are much eaiser and more effective methods for that)

 

and so the people look at each others saying "oh you look so youthful, you have such a nice light" i had the usual blind zealots and unluckily Liping himself delivering this speech, (i think he does because is paid to do so or simply guess that is what people want to hear???) when of course they all look their age and to be honest often worst then it.

 

Along with Anna we were the only 2 foreigners at a highly secretive meeting od advance students and senior practitioner only (please take a bit of the sarcasm in the word advanced) around 150 people who follow him since the 80's 40 of those supposedly with balls so to speak....i spare you the sadness and disillusion but will mention that i do happen to know shen zhi gan who took great pride in telling me how much he knows and how many books he wrote and that he makes froums blogs and god knows to spread Daoism, commendable...unluckily big mouth but not much essence (plus in 10 days of retreat caught him 3 times drunk out in the night, out of seedy karaoke nothing wrong i love those places, but then don't play the pure, sinless, desireless and near enlighted dude during the day) and lots lots of both conceptual and personal....concepts made of him and a couple of others (lu ya ping) in the 10 days there a gathering of zealots.

 

Furthermore aside being a fanatic zealot he does truly exagerate and make real, things which are not, unforgivable in this field (like people having all kind of miracle opening the "orbit" the 3 eye and such and so, mostly as usual just sensationalistic experiences, induced by Ling, Shen or of Qi but again to feel something is not to have achieved it) was very disappointing, to see them take distances from phenomena like Falun gong or similar just to mention) but then faling in the same trap of feel good great experience kind of thing confused with actully achieving it. The top was reached as i was bugging some of the loud mouth among them to prove their achievement, but nobody could, they all went crying to Liping for having hurt their...shall we say ego? and made then loose face, once Shen Zhi Gan and Lu Ya Ping looked at me and said, "ohh your channels are close and you have no qi even if i show you, you would not feel it ? i had a good laugh about it (i just passed the yin yang gong test) but truly quite sad in fact. and most of the so called great things they witnessed are merely more then of the usual mass effect (still definetely some incredible healing yes and random miracolous Ling events but then again this is something different and no need to go to china for that, shall we mention many great Christian charismatig mass healing and divine revelations?)

 

Of the old students i interviewed only 1 did actually pass the test and has achieved some actual results, but could not show it because he needs 3 months of celibacy and 1 months of being vegetarian to prepare for a demo.... i mean...COME ON, and few others did succeed in enter a lesser Ding (of 15 hours is like a 15 hours samadhi, remarkable but...after 20 years of meditating 4 hours a day not so impressive) but still not the xiao ding necessary to practice death and real Shen transformation (72 hours).

 

The reason behind is probably due to the fact that as Liping does say what he teaches is Jiao Dao religious Daoism, implying the need for a conversion of religious values to embrace the specific Ling of the Shan Dao declination meanining mountain Daoism that is for hermits only. He also clearly state that is purpose is NOT to create others like himself but to spread the teaching to the masses for mostly health benefit (to me is always nonsense to concile practices created for transcendence used for health, the tool is not coomensurate to the purpose and viceversa.)

 

Still definetely he and a couple of others have been around Liping for long time and have gathered lots of technical informations of mixed value. Unlukily the all operation is turning in to a manualistic kind of glorified mantak chia, technicism without depth. was quite a disappointment for me personally.

 

This of course does not take away anything from Liping himself, and his achievement but is more the reality of what is it that he is doing for whatever reason, personaly choice, need, destiny or simple politic.

 

I thought you all should know my thoughts on the matter, this forum will always remain brutally true, you know i have spoken many times of very touchy subjects, about myself, about the masters about the tradition, but is the only way to be truly faithful to an undilued tradition and the masters.

 

most of all remember, im still here, ive seen the dark and the light of this spiritual traditions, lots of illusions, lots of smoke and mirrors, but also the truth of it a truth which is undeniable. Is always up to you to discern to go deeper to understand to correct unskillfull views, the method is only as pefect as the person practicing it, perfect yourself so to find perfection and embody it."

 

And the full version of this latest.

 

im not sure where to begin...i guess to start from the end make sense

 

it was October last year when Rene and i were together in Hang Zhou and it was then the beginning of the end.

 

Rene Navarro, teacher and good friend, we sat in the hotel smoking a good cigar and we spoke of the most odd realization: after 15 years of hard trying, to experience the power of the yin yang gong even if only at a primitive stage, left me....with nothing.

 

No permanent transformation in the core of my being, not even the sense of fearlessness toward death having reached a form of immortality really made any difference, actually opposite the strong sense that the "me" who should feel different is not there to be found.

 

i thought of Rene breaking bricks with his bare hands and imagined how similar it must have been, a skill, applied concentration and controlled power, but did it make us better people?

 

obviously not, we carried all of our self -our ego- imperfections, separations and illusions, attachements, sorrows and fears along, we did not realize liberation from suffering, nor unbound joy and partecipation in the divine.

 

Most of all none of these achievement seem to grant even the bare benefits most people expect, superior health, rejuvenation and buoyant energy, both myself and the great masters i met were and are subject to the banal seasonal cold once in a while, a flu or the aching of age as anyone else coupled with aging, and by looking at the masters who achieved higher level i saw nothing but the same pattern repeated, from Luo, to Magus, to Jiang, even Liping (great wake up call) and the other over 20 masters met through the years.

 

The only thing which made a difference has been the clarification of Xing -self nature- attained years before, and having fullfilled Ming -destined actualized potential- made Xing and what is before Xing to come forth.

 

In the months which followed huang shan i went through a major "walking dead man" state as its called in Daoism.

 

in these months was coaxed by Liping to intensify the Xian Tian practices, i made the mistake of following the lead, (this is a VERY interesting story but will keep it for another time), which was in its own right a great lesson leaving me with the very same impression, the development of incredible skills at the level of the Shen rather then the Qi but ultimately just skills which nothing contribute to happiness, and true fullfillment.

 

Furhtermore creating the illusion of a crystallization of the sense of "I" and "self" doing a practice, the deluded but reinforced perception that there is an "I" achieving, an "I" fearing death, an "I" to be "immortalized" leading to nothing but a greater separation from the divine which is seen as unreacheable if not through hardship and self denial, loosing the great gift we all have to actually know God immediately by looking in the the nature of Love.

 

As the months passed the questioning became stronger, and it was July when Shifuji one of the only real enlighted masters i know appeared in vision calling me to see him in Korea....when i got there, that was the end and a new beginning, finally after 11 years i was ready to let go and drop everything ready for his teachings, to finally "jump" as he likes to say since i met him in the 90's. He passed the transmission of the Miao Tong Dao, and made me a free man, a man who loves, who lives in God grace, he took away my burning desire, he quenched my thirst, fufilled my hunger, was a small awakening.

 

He then told me i was not to go back to China...and in fact no matter how hard i tried i was not able to go back...coming back to Italy was magnificent, i wonder why i left in the first place 16 long years ago.

 

Imagine that shortly after coming back friends from the chinese community incvited me to meet and off chinese gentleman visiting who turn out to be among the highest Lei Shan Dao master i ever met so far ( he leaves prints on rocks making well above level 36, Magus is 20 Jiang is 10) right here in the heart of Rome!life is ironic.

 

Problem was that having lost all illusion about practice and spirituality, having quenched the thirst and having found that which is not to be found, leaving nothing undone, and nothing else to do really but being, have been really looking for a way out from teaching and just desappear in silent anonimity, till last week when the chance actually came and...God hands guided me toward teaching again, this time to teach and show others the power of Love the most simple and great practice of all, from where the fulfillment of Shifuji words, to go and teach the Miao Tong Dao till the time is right....as for what the teaching of the Miao Tong are about, is direct experience and what shifuji passed me is the ability to bring people in to direct experience, beyond words, forms, concepts. Simple, magnificent.

After you experience you know.

 

Many of you will now be questioning the meaning of Qi and Shen practice then, i now can tell that though are actually just corollary, if correctly understood skilfully used and applied are means to an end, a base upon which to build, a crutch to lean on, powerfull tools, but not as powerful as peeling potatoes as the master often pointed out!

 

This i have been teaching since the beginning really, so nothing new, now i realized it.

 

Therefore remember practice is practice, nothing more nothing less, in itself does not lead to liberation, yet like anything is tool toward it, and dear to the chinese tradition the media, the expedient and experience of Qi and Shen is the base of choice toward the great breakthrough.

 

Lao Zi spoke the Dao i teach is the Miao Xuan Tong Dao, -the Dao of the wonderous ineffable and mysterious breaktrhough- leading to Xi Ming- penetrate enlightment-

 

By the way, I'm not for or against Verdesi or Wang Liping. To each his own. I would be interested to hear more from students of Wang Liping or Verdesi on the training they have gotten. What teaching do David's students mainly practice and from which master, Da Zhen, Wang Liping, John Chang???

[Ken]

I have been asked not to dwell on this subject further. In any case, I have already said enough and probably more than I should. Good luck to all.

[Pietro]

I have been asked not to dwell on this subject further. In any case, I have already said enough and probably more than I should. Good luck to all.

Wonderful!

Wonderful!!

 

The master's touch.

Leaves things unchanged,

 

but hints about something.

And then who wants to enquire more... can.

 

After all consider this:

if this forum is non polarised respect to a person's action, no one will go and study with that person.

 

But if the forum gets polarised...

then some people will hate the guy,

and as an effect some people will love him (maybe secretly).

This is how energy works.

 

This is especially true in our society where we think that whenever people agree on something,

they must be wrong, and so we have a good base to do the opposite. We were educated to act like this. Every single movie we ever see, the hero is such because he thinks differently from the bhaaa-people (did I stole the line from Dead Poets' Society?

 

So the result of this thread will eventually be an advertisment for David.

Some people WILL sign up for his course (or to pay the thousands of $$$ to see his poker cards).

 

You want to be loved, you need to accept that someone will hate you.

You want to go to the right? Start going to the left.

What a great use of the laws of energy!

 

For me I would say:

ignore all this. Let David to his teachers, his students, his myths (be they true or false). Do your practice.

 

As Dante would have said: "non ti curar di lor, ma guarda e passa".

("Do not be bothered them, but look and move on").

Funny, Dante said this when confronted with people

who were passing eternity running after a banner they could not see.

 

Ironic indeed!