Attention! Letter From David Verdesi Regarding Wang Liping

[Aetherous]

And to that other guy, Dont try & bring all that legal defamation crap into this discussion. Thats a classic excuse for all cowards. This is a martial arts forum & theres always going to be minor conflicts & sometimes heated arguments.

 

This is not a martial arts forum. It's a Taoist forum where martial arts are sometimes discussed.

 

Minor conflicts and heated arguments are fine, but planning for people to gang up and attack someone is something else entirely. I hope to never see it again here! If it does happen again, I hope the moderators would immediately and permanently ban whoever is suggesting it.

[Creation]

You wonder why you don't attract quality people in the forum and quality instructors, look at your own inability to see your connectedness to everyone. You still see yourself as separate? mmm....

I often lament this state of affairs. I'm glad we attracted you, Eternal_Student.

[r.w.smith]

This is not a martial arts forum. It's a Taoist forum where martial arts are sometimes discussed.

 

Minor conflicts and heated arguments are fine, but planning for people to gang up and attack someone is something else entirely. I hope to never see it again here! If it does happen again, I hope the moderators would immediately and permanently ban whoever is suggesting it.

 

 

Now you want to argue over what kind of forum it is Again scotty,Nobody planned to gang up on your beloved David. This again is just your view. The taobums were looking for moderators a few weeks back. Why dont you sign up if you think they arent doing their job.

 

Regards,

[Aetherous]

My bad. Somehow I missed this...

 

Who said anything about bashing David ? I said the guy needs to be confronted with a video camera. In a previous article i said a"Friendly" exchange of power could take place. Yes more masters ought to be taught a Lesson......but show me once where i ever said we are going to Bash David.

[lino]

William Cheung a fraud/fake? I'm afraid you don't know your martial arts my friend, or at least the wing chun style. Also, in the video you posted, it is well known that he was jumped from behind; why would the recording of an 'organized fight' start already into it and not the beginning? It was not fair.

 

Ambush or no ambush, it looked really bad

 

 

Also, "anyone anywhere" MEANS "anyone anywhere".

[r.w.smith]

Exactly.........Lets not forget that William had claimed he Would accept a Challenge anytime anywhere.

[lino]

Exactly.........Lets not forget that William had claimed he Would accept a Challenge anytime anywhere.

 

I don't think that he knew what he was saying by "anyone anywhere" and "open challenge".

Street fight rules apply where anything goes.

 

I wonder, would Yim Wing Chun or Ng Mui get caught up the way that William Cheung did?

 

I certainly don't think so.

[宁]

I have also seen at least 1 user who was kicked out of the Foundation training forum that attends this forum, later bashing David on this site (Having never trained with him or met him, clearly bitter about being kicked out). This student also claimed to have some sort of "secret" information to incriminate David, and that he would reveal it under certain circumstances, etc, etc. There was no secret incriminating information, and nothing was ever revealed from this user. If you search the previous posts you will see allusions to this more than once, with nothing coming to fruit in the end. Why is this?

 

That would be me, if you ask me for an explanation, i surely have one.

1. it wasn't fair for him to ban me from his forum. i was there with the intent of cooling down the repeated attacks on HT, M. Chia and M. Winn. i was never rude or impolite, i just expressed my experiences and some of the experience of my fellow practicioners... to me the decision of banning was just not just. accepting only praise, and not giving the accused the chanse of replying is hypocrit behaviour.

 

2. i had my 'revenge' with david in my own way, in my private exchange of e-mails with him. i had to know what he is all about, although my methods were not very orthodox, hehe.

i still have the information, that at least to me showed that his awareness is really sloppy. nevermind level 4 or whatever. my first intent was to make them public, but somehow i changed my mind. it was my own experience, and, as i discovered later, it had relevance only to me. i'm sorry if i caused wrong expectations, but i don't own anything to anyone, and my decision still stands. nothing public.

besides, i'm not of the party that bashes this or that teacher... i work solo, and i act as i see fit.

 

3. i still have the e-mails. you will receive an e-mail adress and a password. i'm not saving any data, if by any chanse you in fact work for david and want to erase negative information, you very much can do it this time, i dont care. (i had a hard time remembering the email and password, it has no relevance for me anymore). you can give me some feedback in private, if you please. just keep it to yourself. i repeat, i'm not into bashing, i got over it long ago. is that convenient to you?

[r.w.smith]

That would be me, if you ask me for an explanation, i surely have one.

1. it wasn't fair for him to ban me from his forum. i was there with the intent of cooling down the repeated attacks on HT, M. Chia and M. Winn. i was never rude or impolite, i just expressed my experiences and some of the experience of my fellow practicioners... to me the decision of banning was just not just. accepting only praise, and not giving the accused the chanse of replying is hypocrit behaviour.

 

2. i had my 'revenge' with david in my own way, in my private exchange of e-mails with him. i had to know what he is all about, although my methods were not very orthodox, hehe.

i still have the information, that at least to me showed that his awareness is really sloppy. nevermind level 4 or whatever. my first intent was to make them public, but somehow i changed my mind. it was my own experience, and, as i discovered later, it had relevance only to me. i'm sorry if i caused wrong expectations, but i don't own anything to anyone, and my decision still stands. nothing public.

besides, i'm not of the party that bashes this or that teacher... i work solo, and i act as i see fit.

 

3. i still have the e-mails. you will receive an e-mail adress and a password. i'm not saving any data, if by any chanse you in fact work for david and want to erase negative information, you very much can do it this time, i dont care. (i had a hard time remembering the email and password, it has no relevance for me anymore). you can give me some feedback in private, if you please. just keep it to yourself. i repeat, i'm not into bashing, i got over it long ago. is that convenient to you?

 

 

Hi Little1,

 

Did david return or offer to return your money after banning You ? I thought it costs something like $150 just to join ?

 

So lets get this straight......You were kicked out for trying to keep the peace ? Again these are similar tactics that were used by Jim Jones & David Koresh. If you dont agree with everything they say or you have your own opinions....then you pose a serious problem and will be dispatched very quickly.

 

Two years ago there were no complaints about David. But now reports are slowly filtering in one by one, and im sure its only the beginning. Who knows, someday Davids wife may even join us .

 

Regards,

[Seth Ananda]

Exactly.........Lets not forget that William had claimed he Would accept a Challenge anytime anywhere.

My Friend was at this event. According to him, William was bragging that no one could get him down. Emin said to him, "Ok you have till 3, - 1, 2, 3" and attacked him on the spot. He had warning and it was not from behind.

 

Fizix, 3 secs is why no one had the camera rolling. He had warning, just not alot. My friend said he was right up the front...

[lino]

My Friend was at this event. According to him, William was bragging that no one could get him down. Emin said to him, "Ok you have till 3, - 1, 2, 3" and attacked him on the spot. He had warning and it was not from behind.

 

Fizix, 3 secs is why no one had the camera rolling. He had warning, just not alot. My friend said he was right up the front...

 

Uh...he had lots of warning.

"No, no, no, I want to challenge you." <--- this is a warning

 

"I want to fight you now." <--- this is a warning

 

http://www.defend.net/deluxeforums/chinese...in-boztepe.html

[r.w.smith]

My Friend was at this event. According to him, William was bragging that no one could get him down. Emin said to him, "Ok you have till 3, - 1, 2, 3" and attacked him on the spot. He had warning and it was not from behind.

 

Fizix, 3 secs is why no one had the camera rolling. He had warning, just not alot. My friend said he was right up the front...

 

 

Thats very interesting Seth.

 

Look, i dont hold any personal grudge against William Cheung (However i wouldnt be signing up to any of his classes in a hurry either ! ) I just posted the video to show what can happen and still does happen on the seminar circuit. If you keep making ridiculous statements then Sooner or later somebody is going to come knocking.

 

My first priority in learning was to become a better fighter,nothing more. But later on you try to better yourself through cultivation etc, But the second part comes with age i guess. However i would never study an internal system where i didnt feel 100% comfortable in defedning myself. You can have all the obits & channels in the world open,but in my book if you cant defend yourself then your either at a very low level or the system is a waste of time.

 

Many non martial cultivators from buddhists,muslims,etc, still have the capability to thwart an attack if need be. I dont buy into the theory that David is not a fighter for 1 second. Thats just an excuse because deep down he knows he has no power.

 

Regards,

[宁]

Hi Little1,

 

Did david return or offer to return your money after banning You ? I thought it costs something like $150 just to join ?

 

So lets get this straight......You were kicked out for trying to keep the peace ? Again these are similar tactics that were used by Jim Jones & David Koresh. If you dont agree with everything they say or you have your own opinions....then you pose a serious problem and will be dispatched very quickly.

 

Two years ago there were no complaints about David. But now reports are slowly filtering in one by one, and im sure its only the beginning. Who knows, someday Davids wife may even join us .

 

Regards,

 

 

The events happened before the fee was introduced, sorry if i didn't mention that.

For the rest, it's your fight, do and think as you please.

[RFunaki]

Hi Little1,

 

Did david return or offer to return your money after banning You ? I thought it costs something like $150 just to join ?

 

So lets get this straight......You were kicked out for trying to keep the peace ? Again these are similar tactics that were used by Jim Jones & David Koresh. If you dont agree with everything they say or you have your own opinions....then you pose a serious problem and will be dispatched very quickly.

 

Two years ago there were no complaints about David. But now reports are slowly filtering in one by one, and im sure its only the beginning. Who knows, someday Davids wife may even join us .

 

Regards,

 

From my recollection (and I will go back through the forum to double check) he was banned for his pushing of HT and Chia. Many on the forum respected his opinion, and did not say anything negative about his posts, but the moderator and David himself have come from HT in their background, and had issues with their system because of it. From my understanding he was warned, and told at least once to take specifically his HT information and postings elsewhere, as very specifically, the moderator was trying to warn people that certain practices in HT could cause harm later down the road. As Little1 kept pushing this information, he was banned from a then free forum. No one has to agree with what David posts, nor will they be kicked out for not agreeing. However, Little1's persistance in defying a request to stop spreading information that many HT instructors regret doing and found harmful to them is what got him banned. If Little1 permits, I can copy the posts he made on that forum if he believes he was unjustly banned for those to decide here.

 

I am still very curious to know your connection to David r.w.smith. Can you please elaborate on it? Ramus, Neikun, houtian, and Gamuret as well. Many of you contribute often to these posts about him - do any of you care to shed some light on your connection to him?

 

Thanks,

- RFunaki

[宁]

Last time i checked, before i was banned, the messages that counted for what i said were erased (how convenient, eh?)

Yet, if i were you, i would think the same... i very much understand you.

[thepath]

I know of no students who felt ripped off. The wonderful people I met when I attended as well as I have nothing but positives about it. I met people who have experienced the direct power of the masters, and had no doubts. I also met many people who had studied for years and had no doubts about their training - and did just that - trained, and didn't criticize other school's training, or even have any interest in an online community discussing it.

 

I was a candidate student and have been ripped off by David Verdesi.

 

David Verdesi is not an honest person and lies so easily when it is about money issues.

 

His teachings may have some value. I have taken the Xing Shen Zhuang from someone who was a friend of David, and had practiced it for sometime.

 

if I became a student, I would be probably in same thinking mode like RFunaki.

 

But things went on a different direction, and I have experienced his other face.

[lino]

 

You can say no thanks to a particular style, but when you start bashing, you are incurring negative attention and therefore negative karma. A serious practitioner should be aware of this...

 

This is embarrassing and quite childish.

 

You wonder why you don't attract quality people in the forum and quality instructors, look at your own inability to see your connectedness to everyone. You still see yourself as separate? mmm....

 

There are high quality people and high quality instructors here.

 

The high quality instructor has nothing to fear on these forums because they have a track record that backs them up.

[RFunaki]

I was a candidate student and have been ripped off by David Verdesi.

 

David Verdesi is not an honest person and lies so easily when it is about money issues.

 

His teachings may have some value. I have taken the Xing Shen Zhuang from someone who was a friend of David, and had practiced it for sometime.

 

if I became a student, I would be probably in same thinking mode like RFunaki.

 

But things went on a different direction, and I have experienced his other face.

 

Please elaborate on why you feel ripped off and why you say he is not an honest person? When were you in contact with him? Also, who did you study Xing Shen Zhuang with?

 

EDIT:

I have read your previous posts, and see your case where you stated you made a deposit for a seminar that was canceled and never received the money back. You also state you made a post on the forum that was closed and your membership was canceled. Please let me know your username on the forum so that I can investigate the matter for myself. I have administrative access and can see all the members.

 

Thanks,

- RFunaki

Edited November 4, 2009 by RFunaki

[RFunaki]

Gamuret, thepath, Neikung, ramus - I sent you PMs with some information.

[Neikung]

Specifically, I would like to hear the connections of Gamuret, Neikung, houtian, and r.w. smith. I can verify and post proof that I am a student and have met and trained with David - can you at least post proof that you met David, or where you are getting your information? I point out these users specifically because they seem to lead the false information front. What's even more surprising is if you do a search of Gamuret or Neikung's previous posts on this forum, the majority of them (if not every single one) is related to bashing David Verdesi, and there seems to be no other posts from these users in relation to any other topic or aspect of the forum. Why is this?

Rick,

I met David when he came to Indonesia. He introduced himself as Dr. Verdesi. I have no intention of bashing him as he was clearly a pleasant and nice guy when I met him. My intention was only to correct some of the false information that he put out. I only wrote on what I know based on my first hand knowledge and thus my comments have been limited to Mopai and "Lei Shan Tao" matters.

[RFunaki]

Rick,

I met David when he came to Indonesia. He introduced himself as Dr. Verdesi. I have no intention of bashing him as he was clearly a pleasant and nice guy when I met him. My intention was only to correct some of the false information that he put out. I only wrote on what I know based on my first hand knowledge and thus my comments have been limited to Mopai and "Lei Shan Tao" matters.

 

I find your switch of attitude odd. This post in stark contrast of your above post illustrates my point:

 

I have met DV and found him NOT credible. All the negative talks about him are there for good reasons.

 

I also can't verify your information for myself about this meeting when referred to so generally. Under what circumstances did you meet? You were both in Indonesia - so why were you there, and why was David there? And also, approximately what date was this? I could easily verify this with your actual name if provided, however I won't pry that much into your personal information.

 

Personally, I find it suspect that the users I mentioned earlier have not contributed more information about their connection to David after my repeated requests. Especially since when I wasn't questioning, there would be posts very quickly in the tone of defacing David, however, now - the two posts I receive in response are that no one intends to bash him (Despite the long history of posting message doing exactly that)

 

Neikung - your very first post was about Sifu Jiang, not the MoPai. If you look through your history of posts, you only started to dispute what was being said about the MoPai afterward. So what incited you to find the article related to Sifu Jiang and post it, and start the crusade against David? And what information based on your first hand experience do you feel was incorrect?

 

Also, thepath - I still cannot find the situation on the foundation forum that you were referring to. Can you please let me know what your username was or even when this occurred?

 

Thanks,

- RFunaki

[thepath]

Please elaborate on why you feel ripped off and why you say he is not an honest person? When were you in contact with him? Also, who did you study Xing Shen Zhuang with?

 

EDIT:

I have read your previous posts, and see your case where you stated you made a deposit for a seminar that was canceled and never received the money back. You also state you made a post on the forum that was closed and your membership was canceled. Please let me know your username on the forum so that I can investigate the matter for myself. I have administrative access and can see all the members.

 

Thanks,

- RFunaki

 

 

I sent you a pm before reading your posts. If you still have any remaining questions, let me know.

[minkus]

Had a question but found the answer in the thread

Edited November 5, 2009 by minkus

[Pietro]

please, everybody, remember that we change our aesthethic perceptions of the world to fit what we cannot modify.

 

If a person has studied with David, he is more prone to change his valutation to say that it was worth. This unless the situation was so bad that he just cannot see it in that way.

 

In instead the person decides not to work with David, once the occasion has passed, he will change his evaluation so that he will see his decision as the correct one. Again unless the situation is so unbalanced that he really cannot do that.

 

As a result it is common that we find here people who have participated and people who have not participated in those course disagree strongly. Not just on what wes done at the course (after all who was not there cannot tell), but on all the information and facts that would lead a person to study or not study with David.

 

Said that, regarding David and his PhD. When the story of the PhD came to this board there was a lot of people asking to see it, and asking if it was true or not. Eventually someone asked him, and told that he did have a PhD. I don't have the time right now, but maybe someone can pull out that old thread.

 

Again respect to the person that said that people that criticised David were only people who never met him, this is also false. Ramon has explained us that he was a friend of david and di several courses with him.

[tongkosong]

I find your switch of attitude odd. This post in stark contrast of your above post illustrates my point:

I also can't verify your information for myself about this meeting when referred to so generally. Under what circumstances did you meet? You were both in Indonesia - so why were you there, and why was David there? And also, approximately what date was this? I could easily verify this with your actual name if provided, however I won't pry that much into your personal information.

 

Personally, I find it suspect that the users I mentioned earlier have not contributed more information about their connection to David after my repeated requests. Especially since when I wasn't questioning, there would be posts very quickly in the tone of defacing David, however, now - the two posts I receive in response are that no one intends to bash him (Despite the long history of posting message doing exactly that)

 

Neikung - your very first post was about Sifu Jiang, not the MoPai. If you look through your history of posts, you only started to dispute what was being said about the MoPai afterward. So what incited you to find the article related to Sifu Jiang and post it, and start the crusade against David? And what information based on your first hand experience do you feel was incorrect?

 

Also, thepath - I still cannot find the situation on the foundation forum that you were referring to. Can you please let me know what your username was or even when this occurred?

 

Thanks,

- RFunaki

 

 

I think, in my humble opinion, it is naive for you, RFunaki, to ask other people to reveal their true identity. In a public forum, it would be unwise to do so. Even if Neikung or anyone else would reveal his/her identity, how would you be able to verify that he/she has met David. I, myself, knows who Neikung is and can verify that his story is true that he has met David in Indonesia. Are you going to ask for my identity too? Are you going to verify my connection with Neikung? This is a forum. You can either believe someone's opinion/story or not. Do you think David knows all the people who were with him when he met JChang?

 

I, too, have met David (and his wife) during his visits to Indonesia to see JChang. Sure he is very knowledgeable and have met many masters, but he came across to me like a sly snake oil salesman. As I read more about him through this forum and many others, my opinion of him worsened. The claim of his Phd, his breakthrough in lvl-4-like-Mopai (who made that comparison when none of the Western Mopai students has ever attain lvl 4), the newspaper article about David's sifu Jiang, David's outrageous fees, and even his ex-students' criticism of him certainly confirm my first opinion of David. May I remind you that this is my opinion of David. Are you going to verify my connection with David too? I'm from Indonesia. I have a personal connection with Mopai and JChang. Do you want my passport or my ID card? Even if you do have them, how are you going to verify my connection with David?

 

I think what incited Neikung to post article about Sifu Jiang is his concern of the validity of Sifu Jiang and his ability and indirectly David too. When I read an article in the newspaper, I find that article to be more valid and credible than the opinion of people in the forum. This is a forum of discussion. You can take it or leave it. If more and more people are turning against or criticizing David, then, there must be something wrong with David. If he is honest and truthful, it will be hard to find things to criticize (in David's case, there are many).